36 - Elevator Recall - Programming Your Devices - Introduction to Fire Alarms

[@JFairbanks69]

Thank you Joe

[@B3ASTM0D3.]

Hey Joe, I have an issue with fire code. The building we are working on has elevator doors on breezeways in unconditioned space. Current fire code required smoke detectors in place for elevator recall. In our industry we all know smoke detectors don’t fare well in unconditioned areas and asking for false alarms. Note that this building is a remodeled motel into condos right off the beach. Heat detectors for elevator recall in an unconditioned space isn’t to code. What are you’re thoughts? Polling loop runs are on 16/4 due to 500 foot runs. Nac is on 14/4 same lengths roughly. Should I have builder enclose elevator lobby areas?

[@JayJoe626]

Why would you need 3 wires? Could you just give them a common and another wire? Can’t you simply swap the second wire from the terminal of NO to NC depending on what the elevator guy wants?

[@thomaskong1508]

Thank you for the detailed introduction, Joe. We have a 2-story building with a 22-year old Dover elevator. The heat detector at top of elevator hoist way mistakenly recalls the elevator to 2nd floor. Does this look like a job for the elevator service tech or the fire alarm guy? Thanks!

[@JoeKlochan]

Eh, both. Heats shouldn't typically recall the elevator at all, depending on the environment. I can say that typically the fire alarm techs' and elevator techs' verbiage is often exactly backwards with regard to primary and alternate recall. We typically call primary any device which recalls the car to the primary floor. When they say primary, they're referring to the primary floor and the associate that detector with primary. For that reason I usually avoid the terms "primary" and "alternate" when labeling their relays.

[@thomaskong1508]

I am reaching out to both to see if they can figure this out. Will come back and provide an update when it is resolved. Thank you, Joe!

[@thomaskong1508]

Hi Joe, our elevator maintenance provider said this is not their job so I engaged the alarm company, who provided a proposal that says "it will take 2 techs and not to exceed 8 hours to change the program". Do you foresee this as a complex task that will take up to 16 man hours to zone a single sensor? Our two-story building is very small with nothing sophisticated. The elevator is a 22-year-old Dover and the alarm system is likely around the same age. Thanks again!

[@thomaskong1508]

UPDATE - Reached out to another fire alarm service provider and issue was finally resolved. Root cause was "the elevator shaft smoke detector relay was wired to the secondary recall terminals. The tech rewired the relay to activate primary recall." All done within 2 hours!

[@greatmusicgoodfeel826]

Joe, great info , can you do a video on fire alarm correlations. Please.... Simple terms . I have a IO 1000 and just getting stuck on this area.

[@JoeKlochan]

Unfortunately, I have no experience with EST panels. I have never worked for a distributor of theirs. I'm not even sure what you mean by the phrase "fire alarm correlations", but I'm assuming that's specific to their equipment.

[@Dredpath1]

@@JoeKlochanit’s their version of mapping

[@Zeus0886]

Can you do a video on fan shutdown?

[@JoeKlochan]

One of my first videos addresses this briefly, though it doesn't specificly address how to tie the circuit into the fan equipment. I'm tempted to tell you that fan shutdown isn't the responsibility of the fire alarm programmer/tech. Your job should be to give him a pair of normally closed wires and tell him what current your relay/wires can handle. But the reality, at least in my experience, is that can become a pissing match pretty quickly where the HVAC person may think it's not his job. In most cases, particularly on new HVAC equipment, there will be an "E STOP" terminal that will come with a factory-installed jumper. You can simply pull that off and land your normally closed circuit there. However it's not always that simple. Just today I was at a job where the HVAC tech just spliced the FSD circuit into the thermostat wiring. When our relay opened, the fan continued running for 90 seconds before shutting down. Obviously that's not good enough. I do have a video coming that will address this a little bit more, but it's somewhat difficult to do because there are so many different types of HVAC units, and it shouldn't fall on us to figure out how to shut them down.