Riot Games is investing in generative AI snake oil, because of course it is

[@Edujs23]

The literal thousands of artists Constantly sharing their ideas for league of legends that riot could just pay to use

[@shardinhand1243]

i agree but riot already has artists to be fair, but no ai, so way not have both, i agree with the idea of investing in this new market the potential to speed up ai growth is huge, and i want that as much as possible, and i want human growth as much as possible.

[@lenon3579ify]

Why do that if they can just put an AI there and then just use all those arts WITHOUT paying the artists, or crediting them? (contain sarcasm)

[@vickypedia1308]

Every day I get reminded how much of a miracle it is that Arcane just... exists.

[@oSchaufelmann]

Arcane feels like the pinacle of artistic expression and passion. I hope we see more like it.

[@None38389]

Yet I have a sneaking suspicion that Arcane being so insanely expensive to make is part of the reason why they are thinking of cutting corners with AI...

[@oSchaufelmann]

@@None38389 That will backfire tho. If they go through with it, the endproduct wont we on par with the quality of arcane and people will notice. Therefore at some point the executives will see that it is not the way to go. We just have to wait and see.

[@NyehNyeh12]

Everyone who can, remember to sign the animation guild petition. ❤

[@IronDeficientx]

I’ve not heard of this what is it

[@jamescook5783]

Can you send us the link?

[@shardinhand1243]

i will not unless you tell me what the petition is for? what does it want to acheive? is it for artist rights? or attacking ai growth?

[@kokichishares5965]

@@shardinhand1243you could also just look it up on your own and make your own decision? Even if they did tell you why you should sign it, you’d have to do your own research anyways

[@Killa1012]

​@@shardinhand1243most likely attacking ai and keeping our jobs

[@mofthemoth5755]

Capitalism when I catch you

[@shardinhand1243]

capitalisim is king best system yet made, though of course i look forward to the next best when its invented.

[@HybridHumaan]

​@@shardinhand1243 we are fucked if this is the best we can come up with.

[@HybridHumaan]

​@@shardinhand1243like are we for real saying that the system that is causing our entire civilization to go to shits in the next few decades is the best thing we can come up with?

[@shardinhand1243]

@@HybridHumaan fucked how? why? why is capitolisim the end of our species? and would you consider an even more restrictive system like comunisim to be better, if so then why? you didint say this wiout out thinking about it, so you must have some good reasons for thinking its so dangerous.

[@shardinhand1243]

@@HybridHumaan no, not at all, i never said that, whose comment did you read that said that?, i completly disagree with them, capitalisim issint the corperations that are damaging the enviroment, and they would and did exist before, and still exist outside of the concept of capitalisim, capitalisim is a free market, its not some demon or root evil of human nature... no your thinking of greed, thats an evil root of human nature, thats damaging the enviroment, and as long as there are people, there will be greed, under any system.

[@So-4007]

AI art is a new trend that wastes company money. Let them chase it and suffer the consequences.

[@Mokikimoki]

Some people were also pointing out the wage difference between the Riot Games GenAI internship and a Riot Games 3D animator internship. GenAi 60/h 3D Animator 30/h which is just rubbing it in on top. It's utterly insane to me that businesses are adopting technology that is supposed to cut a lot of workforce out of all types of industries. If everybody is losing their jobs. Who is gonna have money left for the products these companies are selling? And yes I am with Skyen on this that those GenAi toys and prompers are not gonna be able to do the job of an actual professionals. At some point people will find use cases for these auto complete algorithms to make some jobs easier, but it won't be what they're being sold as now. The issue is sadly that until companies figure out that they actually need people it'll do a lot of damage. For people working in studios and freelancers alike (which is a huge % of artists working in the industry) Here is hoping that lawsuits will get in the way of those snake oil companies and protect the people those companies are stealing from.

[@luizabianco]

This is actually pretty consistent with the industry as a whole. They are willing to pay way more to an AI prompter than to an artist. Which is crazy, the person behind the AI can be anyone with no skill, that's the whole point of it. You need to know nothing. But it feels like the people in charge believe that because it has to do with technology it has more value.

[@bbgrl-l1s]

After firing shittone of artists and just employers, mind you

[@ninjatoriumnova2483]

Can't wait to hear their CEO blathering about "staying loyal to the fans" again.

[@skizordrone3836]

I blame most of this shit on the US law that requires companies to have undying loyalty to their shareholders

[@MonoDBlob]

AI is good for quickly pulling up answers for already solved issues (not 100% reliable) and that's about it. Creative works will never be a 'solved issue'. The ONLY reason why AI is being used and talked about as frequent as we see is because greedy patrons who invested too much money in it are clamoring to get their moneys worth back. It will never replace quality art as long as AI continue to functions as it is, which in simple terms, just reading human prompts as patterned numbers and regurgitating back just that, patterns.

[@jeppeeilse971]

Mann this entire video felt like my inner monologue reading about this

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

The only things that bring me comfort when it comes to ai art 1 it's following the same steps as nft's so it is likely doomed to fail 2 all mainstream projects that have used ai as a main selling point have either crashed and burned or went below market expectations

[@shardinhand1243]

nft's issint really comparable to the wider emerging ai market and the general ai tech field which is constantly growing and getitng better, one tiny aspect this ai art is hardly the head of the snake m8, you are not seeing a trend, but one use for a tehcnology that one day will be used in every field, everywhere. replacing writers, construction, transportation, medicine, surgery, teaching, military, infrastracture in general... comparing that to a trend like nfts well, it feels... badly misinformed, no ai issint going anywhere, anymore than any other vast technological revolution, like the invention of the jet engine... or cars compared to horses... perhaps you really really like horses... but it doesint matter, you cant stop progress best accept that at the very least to keep your sanity, me personaly, i cant wait to see what comes next.

[@Jan_Iedema]

Corpos gonna corpo

[@screej1088]

Snake oil is an incredible comparison actually my god

[@shardinhand1243]

not really, snake oil implies it doesint work, ai very much works for spicific uses, and its getting more effective, hench way mainstream artist imployment is dying the slow death to inovative progress that took the horse and buggy drivers and the steam train, these htings tsill exist of course just as hobbiests and in niece places for atmousphear or astetic, not for mainstream or large scale work anymore, if ai didint work, this wouldint be happening to artists now. and ai will get bigger and more useful in more fields.

[@inquisitor9207]

I’m glad this video exits to argue against AI. Because as I see it, the quality argument is lost. It’s still obviously not perfect, but in time AI will consistently create acceptable and good images that don’t have any significant or noticable flaws, so I appreciate the ethical arguments and considerations for its lack of use in the wider productive process

[@arthurrus2329]

if you care about "If you embody player empathy and care about players' experiences, this could be your role!" if riot care about player experience then why make this shitty job listing

[@adrienneladd8375]

the thing I really don't understand about the AI enthusists think will happen if what they hope will happen does happen is that if they replace 90% of all jobs with AI bots, who is going to buy their product? without jobs there are no consumers and by extension no profit

[@davidmaxwell4696]

Unfortunately that paradox lies at the heart of all capitalist thinking. They all want to live in some fantasy land where they don’t have to pay people, yet somehow people are magically supposed to have the money to buy their products and services. It’s putting short term profits over long term stability. And they don’t care cause once they’ve extracted as much value as they can from one corporation they’ll glide away from its rotting corpse on a golden parachute to another company to butcher for profit. Leaving thousands of people jobless in their wake. No economy can last long under conditions like that.

[@tonydanatop4912]

Damnit Riot !!!

[@lucilasolier8583]

What I like about your videos about this kind of stuff is that you explain the situation and break it down in a way that it grounds the problem instead of dismissing it or fueling the fire (which is something that I've seen a lot, even from accounts which state that their purpose is to educate about generative AI, for example). So thanks for doing that, it helps a lot ♥

[@jurasicers.r.o7174]

As wise man once sad: "Well if droids could think there'd none of us would that"

[@K1ngOfHearts999]

So, te lay offs really were for investing in AI huh, well I mean who didn't see that coming?

[@iva9nco5tarco37]

Thank you Skyen, my mum is always talking that my job is already taken by generative art, and it always makes me in doomer mood, now i have hope again that i can become a concept/character artist.

[@rawono]

I work with AI daily and ended up getting an internship with a very large international company (that I will not name). The job posting is very similar to this one in the sense that it’s the brand-new thing for tech, and the company wants to explore it with interns. Here are some of my thoughts on this: - First and most importantly, this is disgusting. I feel good about the work that I do because my team only works on projects that try to make life easier for engineers-automating mind-numbing and time-consuming tasks so they can instead work on things that actually use their skills. On the other hand, what Riot wants is content creation, which just does not mix with AI. Anyone that has tried it knows how terrible it is. - This internship opening does not mean they already have a team working with Gen AI. In my case, my team is made up of six interns and one manager. The manager is only there because they had a personal interest in AI, but otherwise, there is no other AI development in the company worldwide. - The more I research the field, the worse it looks for the future. It’s a great tool, but it’s not regulated or limited as much as it should be. It’s negatively impacting every industry and every person at almost every age group, especially in the education sector. It truly feels like when I was young, and the internet was the wild west that scarred you for life by accident. - I use AI daily and have for quite a while, even before ChatGPT existed. I’ve also written articles, essays, and research papers on how terrible Gen AI is for society. I’m not saying this to call myself out but rather to emphasize that AI is a great tool if you understand its limits and how it actually works. The problem is most people don’t actually know how it works and think it’s magic. I’d hate to be a teacher or professor nowadays-I can’t imagine the amount of AI-made slop they have to sift through. - I think a lot of people share the very negative perception that Skyen has, and it’s very deserved, especially for creatives who have been directly affected by this. However, I also don’t think this is the same "trendy bubble" like crypto that will blow up and die. I think it’s here to stay as a tool for us to use. But it will never be able to replace the creativity, heart, and soul that humans bring to what they make.

[@WondrousdotLee]

I work in the game industry and I've always been against AI because of the quality and the possibility of being fired from my job. Although I tried to use AI for programming so I wouldn't be left behind, and as you said, it's glorified autocomplete. Does it make programming or creating any script faster? Ehhh, not exactly. It's 50/50, sometimes it hallucinates so much that I need to write code completely manually even though it has the whole code base.

[@arnas159ds]

I guess everyone wants an unoiled snake. Thats on you.

[@abouttomorb5937]

Human creativity, as far as I can describe it in a "philosophical university" level, is a combination of everything our brain is experiencing in the exact instant of creating both internally and externally. A part of it is always unconscious because we're not able to observe every little thing that interacts with the process internally and externally. AI will never be "creative" as a human being is creative because it doesn't have access to the way humans feel things, storage experience, elaborate thoughts, and express it externally all meanwhile operating in an open system of constant heterogeneous stimuli. What stimuli does AI have to resemble human creativity? Images formed by pixels, audios, texts, all things that are meaningless without experiencing the interactive space from witch all those things generate or relate to. A space that is FEELING before any other rational, lesser, term

[@merlumili]

The biggest takeaway from this for me is: any artist that is considering working for Riot (or any company in the industry really) in the future, be it illustrators, voice actors, modellers, writers, etc., unionize. Get that coin but don't trust them to value your work enough to respect you as an artist 🤷🏽

[@fabricio__uwu]

I understand the retreat for generative ai, but this could also be beneficial to players as also mean for improving the chat filter.

[@shardinhand1243]

i love art, and i also love technology and ai, im very excited to see ai tech grow and slowly evolve beyond humans, although being a transhumanist i also want humanity to grow and advance... but i seem to be the miniscule minority in wanting that, humans are very happy with being pug dogs when we could be more.

[@tracklauonly]

I believe AI could be a great tool for humanity. The problem is that is not very much well used... I work for a AI company to help hospitals to manage better their resources/save lifes.. My side hustle is art. Like it is devastating how I see that my company is struggling to get money to help people, but they are investing huge amount of moneys to do art, one of the most human things to ever exist.

[@ottersaurus]

2:27 this might not be true because of how new the AI field is. The company I work at is constantly looking for AI junior contract work or interns just to test out small projects. Edit: you build a project that has a problem specific that AI could help with and get someone who knows AI. Not that different from machine learning a few years back. Idk what riot is cooking up but they probably have an ai specific project and it’s probably like chat/report scanning. Everyone knows AI is not good enough for a full project and definitely not art

[@Nyx__]

Use of AI in the creative industry right now is just a complete waste of time. It's not even good enough to come close to replacing a human. I understand that if something is just as good and can help speed up a process like animating between keyframes etc, but that's not what they are trying to use it for. It's so dumb. They are trying to push something 10-15 years too early and it's making soulless slop that nobody wants or asked for.

[@saantonandre]

Riot has been using LLMs for support tickets since at least 2 years. This one time I've had my account stolen and then permabanned, so I submitted a ticket with all the proof that it wasn't me to spam slurs in all chat, and that I've just recovered the acc. The "support guy" responded to me in a very concescending manner, cheering me up and saying it was no problem and that my account would have been unbanned within days, also giving me tips on how to secure my acc it to prevent it from happening again. Nothing happened of course; I was chatting with an AI with no agency or responsibility. A cardboard cutout of an employee. They'll replace everything with cardboards, limit testing the users patience to see how much more they can squeeze in profits for executives and tencent stakeholders.

[@IronDeficientx]

I’m very dooming right now so thanks for the video and everyone being calm in the comments and providing alternative takes because this had me spiralling last night so badly. I really hope you’re right I’m having faith that you know what you’re talking about because I have no idea truly how this works, tech is not my strong suit. My worry is tho that the “useless defunct shit” they’re going to make with it is all the stuff we get for pass rewards like icons, emotes etc as we’ve already saw hints they might be trying to pull that shit. Worse than that though is that I might not even be able to tell they did it 😢 I feel like those smaller things would be very easy to make passable with AI and a few edits form a human

[@mop-kun2381]

AI gonna be irrelevant in a couple of years, the same way the Instagram pencil sketch filter took over the world for 3 weeks. People were saying "it's the end of artist", "why do you need artists when you can just use filter" blah blah blah before everyone realized it's nothing more than a shitty gimmick and then forget it even exist. This is just that but on a bigger scale. my only problem with it is how many careers is gonna be lost until then? how many artists gonna found out that they are fired from fucking twitter ? How many young and talented people are looking at the state of the industry and decided to just... not pursue a career in art and videogames at all ? and how much it's gonna affect the whole industry ? All that just so companies can pay people less for a few years ??

[@1Kapuchu100]

I feel like "Snake Oil" is too kind a word. Its implications sort of leaves out the very real harm it causes, that aren't just the ones convinced to buy something that's worthless (I.E the poor gullible sods who actually pay for AI images).

[@titanseye]

As much as I agree that AI will not be the end of creativity, I'm afraid that some companys (even if not Riot) will be ok with the loss they get when switching to mostly AI, because the customers that stay will still give them more money then if they would have gotten with more customers and having to pay there employees. I hope Riot will quickly learn, that this is a failed attempt, before they start making 10-20% AI content, with us customers be like "eh, we just don't buy this". Didn't work with the gacha bullshit, might not work with a "little" AI here and there.

[@HienLeGia]

Can wait to see "prompt engineers" get to hold the literal bag after these C-suites fail to make any profit from these filth.

[@butterfreedom5357]

The most simple argument against AI in art is that it can't create Frankenstein. In a time where all the monsters in popular fairy tales are irredeemable, it can't create a new one with feelings. It's not a part of the model. Of course capital doesn't care about any of that though.

[@murillomesmo8189]

Imagine if every single artist, every single of every function (concept, final painting, voice actors, writers, programmers) fired from riot at the same time. That would be glorious!

[@ramxavier4627]

Were in the late game capitalism now

[@whyme5570]

I will probably get a lot of backlash for saying this but there is one thing AI generated art/sound is useful for and it's non-commercial personal/portfolio projects. I know that it is still considered plagiarism but this use case is not something new, caused by AI. Admit it, you all made a presentation for a school project at one point and took an image from Google Images without giving credit to who made it. AI only made it easier. Monetizing AI generated content is completely wrong. But assuming that AI content is not the actual study material, I believe it's not fair to blame a student for trying their best to pass a class as long as they don't claim the ownership of the content AI created. I will give a more specific example for games industry because that's where I work. Recruiters' expectations are unreasonably high and your work is mostly evaluated by people who doesn't know anything about your field of study. You might expect a game developer to be judged by their programming skills but the recruiters don't know about programming. So if you are a programmer, you have to showcase something playable for them to judge but there is another issue. Programming is not enough to make a game. As I said, the recruiter doesn't know about programming so they will judge you by the quality of the game, not the quality of your code. And you can't impress them with bunch of squares moving around the screen. So what happens is, while artists only need to learn art tools, and sound engineers only need to learn sound engineering tools, the programmer guy has to know all of them, despite not needing them on their actual job. Alternatively, they can convince some friends or find a freelancer. However, at that point, most of them just say "why do I even bother to apply to another company when I am making a whole game on my own" and go indie (that's why there are so many programmers turned indie) Others who can't find people to help them or simply don't want to waste their time with learning something that's is not their job, either get eliminated or move to other areas.(like myself. This is also why I quitted programming and moved to design.) I know there are free assets available in the internet but those are few and recruiters go through hundreds of applications a day. I witnessed this first hand and they grew unattracted to seeing same sword.png every game very quickly. AI helps such developers to focus on programming without trying to compete with people who can afford freelancing art for their projects.

[@blackroses96]

Capitalism sure looks like it's coming closer and closer to the crashing point, doesn't it.

[@Yung_Ditalini]

Rito keeps getting harder and harder to defend why I play their dogshit game

[@MateMaterial]

Greed .mother of downfalls.

[@lorynerd5509]

I would prefere, they having generative ai in there next gamebots. In someway to set a decent training areas to play in league. Besides that, cant find a use in art.

[@None38389]

There are so many busywork that could be trimmed down with AI technology and generative AI is the one they chose to invest in? These higher-ups really don't know how game development work, do they? They just see something shiny and say: "Me want."

[@gyranix]

The crazy thing is if the corporations used AI as a way to get artist inspired would be great. Like have the artist use a prompt to see a rough draft of their ideas on an AI image and then take that and morph it into something of their own.

[@mickael2628]

so yeah capitalism bad? such an analyse

[@3BSkyen]

Glad you agree :)

[@anartoast]

well it's not depressing at all for the people that work at riot and the people that are inspired at riot

[@zeno3568]

One thing that kinda nags at my mind as an artist myself, now that genai is here: The AI cant innovate, it cant create something new. But like...can I? I dont think I've ever made something "truly original/new". I've gotten inspired by different things, went "okay but what if xyz is like this instead" but...is that truly new? I try not to stress about that and tell myself (others have told me the same) "dont worry too much about it, there is nothing new under the sun" but now that we say 'ai cant create new things' I'm more and more scared that...neither can I

[@ninjatoriumnova2483]

Sure you can, even if it's just the differences stemming from muscle twitches and the fact that you can't draw something to be exactly the same every time. That already makes anything you make infinitely more valuable than any AI slop.

[@DetLutar]

An AI doesn't have thoughts and feelings, you do. And that influences your art in ways that, as ninjatorium said, make it more valuable than AI.