3D Printed Turbo Pump

Designing, 3D printing, and testing a turbo pump for injecting fuel and air into a rocket. All turbo parts are made with resin 3D printing, to eventually inject fuel and air to a rocket.
3D files:
www.thingivers...
Turbo uses 3mm bolts and nuts.
Small bearings:
www.amazon.com...
Large bearings:
www.amazon.com...

[@ezrarichardson279]

This is a really cool project. I love the fact that there’s a whole group of KZbinrs collectively attempting to build DIY rocket engines and stuff! Soon we’ll have the first completely KZbinr run space agency lol!

[@ericlotze7724]

Look up "Copenhagen Suborbitals" if you want to see something similar to that idea, it's really neat!

[@0ni_x4]

Look up bps space

[@ezrarichardson279]

@@0ni_x4 That's who I am talking about in part when I said "a whole group"

[@TheWorstBridger]

Me and afew friends are nearing the end of our SSTO research and we hope to have our test plane done in 2 years

[@olddog2newtricks]

How do you only have 28k subscribers?! This is some of the coolest and best presented engineering on KZbin

[@willhaney96]

WOW! I didn't even notice! Geeeeze You better be on the Up in up because this is awesome.

[@ywsx6489]

KZbin likes to promote junk that make people dumb so this channel has a long climb ahead.

[@VerbenaIDK]

he only has 28k because it's a niche of building amd 3d printing with a niche within a niche of making rockets, which is not for everyone

[@willhaney96]

@@VerbenaIDK lol explain smarter every day and integza

[@VerbenaIDK]

@@willhaney96 integza is same thing and pretty sure smarter everyday has a bunch of science in it, whoch not all people will br interested, idk about mehdi tho maybe because he almost kills himself every video, that man is lucky he's alive, he bamboozled death at the very least once

[@fisher9413]

I'm competing at the Texas State Science and Engenering Fair next week. My project was a 3D printed alchohol and oxygen rocket. Iv had the Idea of 3D printing a rocket engine since my school won a 3D printer in a grant my freshman year. While researching I came across your channel. You've been a great inspiration in project and I just want to say thank you.

[@FreshAsFxck]

Well, how'd it go?

[@fisher9413]

@@FreshAsFxck didn't place, only top 3 in their category know what they placed but I was at least 27th in state (in my category) because thats all that was competing at state

[@simontanguay3619]

Love the design! As for the combustion chamber, you could maybe 3dprint it with thicker ablative walls (abs also makes a good fuel if you're not afraid of the fumes) and/or cooling channels to route air and fuel through? It would free you from the limitations of the 2L plastic bottle while still remaining a plastic rocket engine.

[@WetDoggo]

For the impeller you can use a bigger diameter to increase static pressure, since the centripetal force will get higher. Then you might also need a bigger turbine to get more torque... You can also vary the amount of flow by making the insides of each lower, depending on what peak flow output you need for a perfect mixture. Use 4 thinner holes at the injector to get more surface and constrict the airflow with a better nozzle to get faster airflow and both together can improve the mistification process much more effective. Maybe even give the nozzles a shallower angle to get the mistification startet earlier. And the bright orange flame is indicative of sodium 👌 This was a pretty great video to watch to be honest

[@Nifty-Stuff]

So glad I stumbled on this channel! Please keep the 3D printing and project videos coming!!!

[@PixlRainbow]

There is another type of turbopump that works slightly differently; instead of using the flow of oxidizer to move the fuel (or vice versa) directly, it runs the oxidizer (or fuel) around the walls of the rocket bell for cooling and then uses the expansion of the respective gas (due to having picked up heat) to drive the pump, which then extracts more fuel/oxidizer to feed the cycle.

[@Thorgon-Cross]

While you are completely correct a few engines do that it will not work here as that system needs very high heat to work.

[@rosekennedy9744]

Look at the way that actual car turbos run smoothly.

[@jamesmyname]

Very cool. Fun project and I love all the helpful comments here. I think youtube recommended this because I'm interested in 3d printers. Awesome to see what you're able to do with one.

[@RUD_Technologies]

try 3d printing a small regen cooled chamber with thin walls for great heat conductivity

[@faxezu]

9:30 I would assume that the sausage is quite salty. Sodium ions create a really bright yellow/orange glow in flames and the color matches this.

[@Tera_Hai]

I'd think about a staged turbo set up with an identical one downstream and run the Air into it first then up to the 1st turbo from the fuel side and then out to the combustion chamber so the higher pressure fuel has the highest pressure air.

[@nerobro]

Biggest thing to mention, is static pressure from a centrifugal pump is very different from pressure at flow.

[@tdevi1]

- Was the hotdog tasty? - Is it safe testing the fire over a patch of grass like that LOL! - Amazing to see how a "relatively simple" injector made such a big difference!!

[@RChero1010]

I would recommend looking into a means of measuring the dynamic pressure the pump can generate. Centrifugal pumps are not great with static pressure. I'd also be concerned about cavitation on the fuel impeller eating it up in a hurry. You may want to experiment with different ratios between turbine and compressor size and design, as well as their respective housings, but unfortunately my flavor of engineering never got into pump design, just specification. Super excited to see this go forward though!

[@kalebholmes702]

try different size blades on the turbo. in a car turbo. the exhaust fan is bigger then the intake fan. which in your setup the exhaust fan will be your air line.

[@rctestflight]

Thats awesome! What resin do you use?

[@Sciencish]

Holy Cow, I watch your videos all the time! Elegoo standard resin, translucent blue and translucent green: www.amazon.com/dp/B08Z7DM76C/ref=twister_B08YF4VSWF?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

[@pempem2.018]

bro that's next gen flame thrower but on steroids XD

[@ChaFairchild]

You need a cricut for cutting those plastics more precisely! Also I'm sure your SO will use it a lot too

[@Casey_Schmidt]

The maximum prestige fuel side of the pump can produce is likely higher than the gauge read. If the pump’s flow is completely impinged like it was in your test, the impeller will “stall” for lack of better term. Pumps like that make maximum pressure when there is a balance between the restriction and the flow. The channel Indeterminate Design talked about this a little bit in his video on a two stage turbo.

[@tessa7468]

maybe you could metalprint a bell? or even ceramic print it

[@nitrodude3592]

that injector is genius!

[@crazy4chickens]

He just wanted to cook hot dogs with a rocket

[@bblod4896]

Also, add a check valve to the fuel line, that should keep any back pressure out of the fuel supply

[@jakobtheiner6329]

Holy shit that injector is effective 👏

[@icaleinns6233]

One thing that is really easy to do is change the size of your impellers. Make a smaller air impeller and a larger pump impeller. Not terribly efficient, but you will be able to see the difference in static discharge pressure. Also I'd suggest putting in a backflow preventer, a.k.a. check valve, to prevent getting burning fuel coming out of your fuel tank. Edit: Also you can put in a bypass path for the air so that not all of it passes through the turbine.

[@user-vy5hc9ud6l]

Can you put the bottel in a bigger container filled with water to cool it and maybe the Film cooling on top?

[@MongrelShark]

Orange flame from the hotdog is likely sodium. That's one satly dog

[@Buzzhumma]

I just found your channel and super impressed! 👍🏻Maybe a small tube coming of the fuel rail after the turbo going back into the fuel tank to keep it positively pressured . This may help stop the pressurised air from feeding back up the fuel line!

[@garretttinker5954]

ideas for optimization off the top of my head: gear + ratio

[@maxk4324]

As I stated in another comment, I can't stress how cool this is and how impressed I am with your work. That being said, if you are receptive to it, I have some points regarding centrifugal pumps that I think might be helpful. You may already be aware of some of these, if so skip those ones, but just know I am not trying to be patronizing, just helpful :) (this is going to be long, but I'd rather be thorough than brief) 1) It is important to not think of these pumps like piston, gear, or other positive displacement pumps. Positive displacement pumps will pump a specific volume flow rate of liquid for a given amount of supplied power or die trying. With positive displacement pumps you can test flow rate and static pressure independently like you did here. Centrifugal pumps, however, you can't do this. With this kind of pump, the flow rate you can achieve for a given amount of input power is not static, but rather it changes with the amount of pressure increase (delta-P) the pump develops (ie outlet pressure minus inlet pressure, in your case this is the same as measuring the gauge pressure of the outlet since your tank runs at 1atm). With delta-P near zero, the pump can generate it's highest flow rate. Then, as you restrict the flow downstream, either by using a variably opening valve (ball, gate, butterfly valves, etc) or by changing the height it is trying to pump to, the delta-P will go up while flow rate will go down. However a very important thing to remember when characterizing centrifugal pumps is that they CAN NOT operate at zero flow rate. I mean they physically can operate without too much bad happening (for this size of pump), but the delta-P they create will actually be waaaay lower than their maximum possible delta-P. Since they rely on centrifugal force to generate pressure, they can only work effectively if their is fluid flowing through them. If you halt the flow completely then there is nothing moving through the impeller and thus no centrifugal force accelerating the fluid and thus only a very small delta-P. In this situation the impeller is effectively just whacking the fluid and that's the pressure you are measuring, not actually the useful delta-P. What you want to find is the curve of flow rate vs delta-P and you likely have or can make the stuff to find this very easily. First place your pressure measurement device right at the exit of the pump (or as close as possible). Next, connect the outlet of the pressure measuring device (probably a T with a gauge or transducer on the perpendicular port) to a variably openable valve like a ball valve, one of the other examples I mentioned, or literally any device that lets you variably restrict the flow ranging from fully open to fully closed. Now connect the outlet of the valve to the flow rate measuring rig. I think you were plotting mass rather than mass flow rate in the video, but this can be easily fixed just by plotting value of the following function instead: mass_flow_rate_now = ( mass_now - mass_previous ) / ( time_now - time_previous ) For clarity the system should look like this: pump outlet ---> pressure measurer ---> variable valve ---> mass flow rate rig Finally, start your valve fully open, and start recording mass flow rate and pressure at the same time (I recommend getting a cheap pressure transducer from amazon, you can get ones rated up to 100psi for not a lot of money, you can usually read these with an arduino). Ideally you can visualize your data as you perform this test but it's not necessary. Now slowly close the valve. Finally, rather than trying to plot it as a line, I'd recomend generating a scatter plot of mass flow rate vs delta-P (just assume inlet pressure is 1atm so that your pressure measurements equal delta-P) and then fit a curve to the data points. This way you don't need to worry about whether all the data points are in the right order when they were recorded, just as long as you an ensure each pressure reading is matched up with it's corresponding mass flow rate reading you should be good. If you did it right you should get a graph that looks something like the one here (fig. 7): engineeringlibrary.org/reference/centrifugal-pumps-fluid-flow-doe-handbook#:~:text=Pump%20head%2C%20on%20the%20vertical,is%20flowing%20through%20the%20pump. Ok that was long so I'll add follow on points as replies to this comment...

[@maxk4324]

Actually this is the only point of advice I have for now. I will add that optimizing turbine design is one of the most complicated parts of liquid rocket engine design, so good luck.

[@MichaelMacGyver]

Couldn't you use different sized impellers each side of the turbo?

[@barryd86]

If you need more pressure you can simply built another one and connect the fuel side in series while connecting the air side in parallel. This will give you dual stage compression

[@bloodsweatandtearsforeverl9833]

I would try a thermos for a combination chamber

[@johiahdoesstuff1614]

Your projects continue to entertain me, excited to see all these concepts put together!

[@MrTuhascvbouwq]

Loved the video mate. Can´t wait for the next one.

[@Bocvn68]

Awesome video. But can you improve on the turbo pump by making it a compound turbo setup?

[@sunoncream1118]

the fuel injector can be use to make snow ^^

[@doge5603]

What if you used propane to spin the turbine instead of air.

[@theelectricwalrus]

Trying to exhaust the 80psi compressed air after the turbopump into the combustion chamber would be like jumping straight to staged combustion. Why not run the turbopump open cycle, and also supply the combustion chamber with 20 psi air from a pressure regulator?

[@jeronimocaceresguido282]

You can test and balance of the fuel and lost of pressure to mach.

[@sebastianuhl]

Dude, amazing design and video!

[@guywitharadio6043]

Would it be possible to fit a one way valve on the fuel line?

[@willhaney96]

Ayyyyyyy! You made a rocket video! Thank you!

[@made_for_making776]

This is really cool.

[@phillipferguson4333]

Dude I like the injector u selling File? Think of add to a hho dry cell to generator to make clean free energy.

[@AndrewTheRadarMan]

Awesome results!

[@aydenhanlon1674]

You need a Popet valve at the end of your fuel injector or a one way valve in your fuel line

[@shykitten55]

Why couldn't you put a simple valve at the end of the fuel line just before the combustion chamber? (Spring, ball and hole)

[@tomasraketak]

Try to use resin 3d printed combustion chamber

[@zekebrier5326]

All you haft to do is make one side bigger so one sid pumps more than the other side

[@GNP3WP3W]

The orange color from the hotdog is from the sodium within

[@varunmehta1821]

Try out the electric turbo pump. Rocket Labs are using it for their electron rockets successfully. Also you can eject the used up batteries to save weight. And if you are ejecting the batteries, maybe even try using capacitors.

[@the_gary]

I think a turbo powered by an electric motor like the Rocket Labs Electron rocket would be really interesting. It decreases the complexity and tiny rc motors and LiPo batteries are not that expensive and should be lightweight.

[@AndreYoshinoriOta]

why not use the extra air to make a vortex and protect the bottle?

[@AzimuthAviation]

Why does diesel fuel compatibility with your extruded plastic turbo pump come to question for improved energy density m/l?

[@KurtisSaiyo]

Have you tried just making a larger turbine for the fuel and a smaller turbine for the air? Also, air is compressible and fuel is mostly incompressible. You might get problems with cavitation on the fuel side. Questions: have you inspected your seals? I'm curious how they held up.

[@bilalhabeeb4684]

Wish you uploaded more often, your videos are dope!

[@l.merbecks8144]

tip no. 1: for more power increase the diameter or increase rpm. Power scales with D^5 and n^3

[@paramotortheory]

I want the injector to make a snow machine!

[@AlChemicalLife]

I think I may have a suggestion, what if you used a one way valve in the fuel line ? Would that work? Secondly , I may give this turbo pump and make a similar ( but not the same ) injector and test it in a small jet engine just to see how well it works. I love the way you design stuff , same exact way I engineer suff as well !

[@Sciencish]

I actually tried that! Most have a spring to keep the valve normally closed, which is overcome with enough pressure in the correct direction. Here there is no pressure in the fuel tank so the valve just stayed closed

[@toorikul]

Keep it up Sir, today i learned lots of new ideas 💡 from your 10:10 minutes video. thank you so much 😊

[@eastoforion]

so fun to see this stuff!

[@kylebrake1806]

I love your videos!

[@mr.pineapple7620]

Hotdog grease burns that way because of the high sodium content

[@wehooper4]

Amazing work as always!

[@TerryGilsenan]

Did you have any plans for that hotdog? You made me hungry....

[@thebush6077]

You should still post the injector... Even if not for fuel and fire, fine mist is fun

[@devrim-oguz]

You can pump the fuel by itself by heating liquid rubbing alcohol to boiling temperatures

[@Alexander_Sannikov]

I think the fundamental problem with your design is that it uses relatively small volume of air before the ignition to drive the pump. compare this to the vastly enlarged flow of gasses after they combust in an actual staged combustion rocket pump. it's still very impressive that it works as well as it does.

[@RUD_Technologies]

I'm wondering how it would burn with kerosene

[@oadka]

nice project!!!

[@Max-rw4fr]

Really nice video👍 Keep going I'm building a turbopump too and designed the rotors a bit different. For pumping fluids, the normal blades at the rotor intake don't seem to be the best option...The real rocket turbopumps I saw all had an Archimedean screw or something like that instead of the blades. I think this has something to do with kavitation

[@jojopornebo188]

Have you ever dreamed of designing a turbocharger model of a nanobubble generator. It could help the environment clear off grey water and produce irrigation quality water.

[@thepatrickcrab]

Cool vids mate :)

[@mliittsc63]

Your 80 psi air is doing work, so I don't think the pressure on the output side is 80 psi; it it were you'd be getting something for free, and you should be awarded every Nobel prize for the rest of the century. Also, if the rocket is to have any thrust at all, you will need a large pressure in the combustion chamber from the production of hot gas, and THAT is the pressure you need to worry about. In a "real" rocket a portion of the hot gas is used to drive the pump. Unless you have 3D printer than can print high temperature metal alloys this might be a problem. I suggest just using an electric motor to power the pump. This probably won't work, but you could try to a large turbine on the air side driving a gear train that gives a small turbine on the fuel side a much greater velocity. There are engineering schemes that use momentum instead of pressure to make things happen, and since momentum is a function of velocity (and mass) a large difference in speed *might* work. Problem: 3D printing will give you very high friction gearing, and an injector will slow the fuel down. I vote for electric motor.

[@lostsky1590]

Can u show us how to make a solar cell . Tnx

[@jonathandill3557]

JohnnyQ90 would be a good channel to check out for some ideas about improving mini turbochargers. Thinking of his CNC RC scale supercharger and wankel engine, but may he could give you some tips for what you are trying to do.

[@linearburn8838]

try using oxygen to power the turbo pump and machine the nozel out of iron or aliumium

[@alanibrahim1059]

I love your video's keep it up man

[@lilman227]

I know you said you wouldn’t post the injector file, and I respect that… but could you post it, and say you didn’t?

[@analogico3615]

are you going to eat that hot -dog?

[@lawrencecole6527]

If you want support you gotta give support and withholding files, well tisk tisk. And so; likewise may you be gate kept.

[@lesto12321]

what is the combustion chamber pressure? BTW my first idea would be to use electric motor instead of air as a driver, because I wonder if you have enough pressure in the air to pressurize the fluid + still have enough pressure to not get backlash

[@liamdifiore8637]

Are the turbo pump files still on Thingiverse or were they removed?

[@Sciencish]

hm, I can see it. www.thingiverse.com/thing:5323833 works for me

[@liamdifiore8637]

@@Sciencish that’s so weird I get a 404 you have reached the end of thingiverse error when I click the link

[@paranoiia8]

I was wondering... what if we use those atomizers to make a mist out of fuel and then push it with pressured air.... will it mix better with air? I know that maybe its stupid question as I dont know much about it, but... could be weird and funny wideo to try...

[@rxy228]

What resin printer are you using?

[@antonkieser4585]

Very cool project 👍 can you tell me what resins you used and which printer ?

[@Sciencish]

Elegoo transparent green and blue standard resins on an Elegoo Saturn

[@rimmertf]

how many injectors are going to be in the final compustion engine? (

[@rimmertf]

for the algorythm)

[@kr4dh4x0r]

Why wouldn't you post the injector... that seems silly. You need a smaller air side and a larger fuel side on your turbo to pump more fuel with less air.

[@sobamani1244]

Thanks 🙏🙏

[@lewinday7224]

Nice work! What did you use to create those 2D animated diagrams of the pump's workings?

[@flixieG]

love your videos :)

[@sachiootsuka]

so cool!!

[@durvius2657]

Question: when measuring the amount of fuel the pump can move in the tubing, could you widen the tubing you are using in taking the measurement? So, you can make use of a shorter but thicker tube. As long as you include the diameter increase along with the height difference in the calculation?

[@quinnreierson]

Love this

[@ethanmye-rs]

Why not use a backflow preventer?

[@Sciencish]

They’re kept closed with a light spring, and since there’s no pressure(in the right direction) it won’t allow any flow

[@lastproductionstudio]

I need more

[@woko496]

You need a waste gate. you can adjust the turbo side of the pressurized air coming out of the turbo with the waste gate. Most are just spring pressures valves that can bleed off enough air pressure to make it a specified amount. like 20 psi or whatever is needed. Give that a shot.

[@Otternosh]

Budget Tom Holland :)