4 MOST Common Kayak Roll Mistakes. And How to Fix Them

So kind of a longer video this week where I talk about the 4 biggest problems I encounter whilst teaching people to roll a kayak, and how to fix them. I have included some demonstrations, some things to think about to fix them. By no means are these the only ways to fox these problems or even the only problems but I would say these come up most often so hopefully will be most useful.
If you love these videos and want to see more of them please check out my Patroen page. www.patreon.com/sethashworth Patreon is a crowdfunding site where you can pitch in a few bucks a month (and get out at any time) to help me keep these going. You will also get early access to my Podcast "Questions You Never Thought to Ask" before it is released into the podcast apps.
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[@stevekaplan1774]

this man know what he is talking about , he even get back to you if you asking him something, we need to.have more people like him in the world thank sir

[@SethAshworth]

Just trying to share some kayaking with the peoples! Thanks for the kind words. 💪

[@truenorthtransparency5230]

watched this before trying to learn how to roll for the first time and it helped immensely! Fast-tracked the learning process and allowed me with a basic understanding on not just what the common mistakes are but how to address them. Much appreciated!!

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for checking it out. There are a bunch of instructionals on this channel. Hopefully some of them will be helpful and of there is any you want to add let me know

[@shawhi1]

I have never heard point #4 presented and explained the way you just did it. Excellent. Thank you for making this video, Seth.

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for checking it out!

[@darksidecarnival5385]

The 4th point is something that I hadn't considered and now thinking back on some of my failed attempts I suspect I've also done this. Great video!! I sure benefit from it.

[@HerbalTeabag]

Putting my ear/ chin to my shoulder was the biggest change I made that really helped with my roll making it more consistent and successful!

[@SethAshworth]

So awesome to hear

[@boblansburg1365]

this is incredibly well done. This goes way beyond the conventional teaching. You've done a real service here.

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for checking it out Bob! there are other tutorials on my channel, let me know if you are struggling with something in particular

[@StefanFuhrmann]

Very useful!!! Thank You!!

[@gw6797]

Very good tips, thanks

[@datawrangler81]

Those are some of the best bad roll examples I've ever seen! I would like to see problems that show up when learning the off side roll. Although the video 'Learning the Kayak Roll, Grace under Pressure ' has some of the best advice- ''practice the off side as much as your onside''. For me the off side issue is usually not getting enough Tuck, and paddle diving.

[@SethAshworth]

Offsides can be tough at first. They ease with practice. I should practice mine more. I think once you have a solid onside you should start learning offside ASAP as this is when the gap is smallest. Don't overthink it just start chipping away. Worst way just onside roll back up, take a breath and start again. Thanks for watching.

[@andrewcollins7574]

Nice work Seth. I've taught maybe 100 people how to roll. Your explanations are spot on and easy to follow. Your suggestion and remedies are practical and effective (if followed) and your presentation style is engaging and authoritative (without being smart arse or condescending). I'm about to recommend that my pupils (Uni club) watch this video. Thanks, from the land down under.

[@SethAshworth]

Hopefully you can take this and build on it, I have defiantly made all the mistakes you are talking about at one point or another but I have it pretty filtered down at this point. Remember you can say too much as well as not enough so finding that balance of what to say and when is critical. thanks for checking this video out!

[@bennyblanko3]

Thank you!

[@brettkovak6344]

Great video! I know you say you might be talking too much, but you’re very detailed! I’ve paddled for 22 years got into White water 20 years ago then left it alone because I moved where I couldn’t find any white water. I’m 53 years old got into paddling White water at 33 or 31 something like that left it alone for a while but still kept paddling rivers in Vermont in boats that weren’t designed for it! I sold all of my boats and I’m reconfiguring the fleet! Very excited for next season! Thanks again for all your videos they’re great!

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for checking it out. Let me know if there is something that might help you out more. Maybe get you back in that WhiteWater

[@0718kuhn]

Great advice. Thanks for sharing.

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for watching! Hope they help you or someone you know.

[@mikethezipper]

You're a legend Seth - thanks for taking the time to make this video to help us all out. Keep em coming!

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks, will do!

[@christopping5876]

Excellent video. I picked up the first 3 not the forth. Now, the hard part , I have to do is apply it to myself! Keep them coming, please.

[@SethAshworth]

Glad it was helpful! applying new things to your own paddling can be very hard but it is usually just a matter of time and focussed effort.

[@johnhefford137]

Really good points made and nice example video clips.

[@pabloenriquetirabassi7060]

Great video, excellent explanation with details that I had not seen in any other video. Thanks, great information!! I have already subscribed to your channel. Greetings from Argentina.

[@SethAshworth]

Gracias Usted!

[@whskymilkshake]

this is great Seth and i’m excited for the “recovery position” discussion. i’m starting to try other rolls, and getting into creeking, so it’s on my mind

[@SethAshworth]

It’s a hotly debated topic for Sure. But I have some thoughts on it. Maybe right, maybe wrong. It’s on the docket for future videos though.

[@dirtbagoutside]

Keep em coming please!!

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for watching! I have some more instructional stuff in the pipeline.

[@jeremyboone1071]

Man, I’m struggling with putting all the steps together and your videos are so helpful. Thanks.

[@SethAshworth]

Keep your head down and keep at it. Post a clip of you rolling I’ll throw my advice in if you like.

[@cheskybaba4864]

Seth - I tried your "touch your ear to your shoulder" technique - BIG difference in keeping that head down and rolling up so much easier. Thanks !

[@SethAshworth]

So glad it helped you. There is another one somewhere on my channel about the ideal finish position too which you may also find helpful. Give it a search. Thanks for checking out this one!!

[@cheskybaba4864]

@@SethAshworth Funny you say that - last time I combat rolled three times - coming up and going right over the other side. Definitely need a finish position locked. I'll check it out for sure.

[@philipoakley5498]

#4 is insightful!

[@simonwyndham]

For the first point it could be simplified into "Look into the water". Then it's just one thing for the practitioner to do and be aware of. However, although I have had some success getting people to do this, what tends to happen is that it works for the initial fractions of a second, but as soon as they feel they are coming up, yep you've guessed it, they turn their head. So I find a large problem is getting them to keep looking at the water until the very end. Sometimes I will tell people to flop their body like a loose rag doll towards the water as they do the paddle movement. Video feedback is the best tool though. I find that a lot of people simply can't understand/visualise what they are doing wrong unless they are shown a video of what's happened.

[@SethAshworth]

Absolutely! I agree 100% that it could be simplified BUT (and there is always a but, dichotomy in all things) I like to have a few things to say up your sleeve because different things are gonna 'click' for different people. And about video review, yea it is the most underused tool. I have talked about it a bunch on this channel. When I am really putting work into improving something I use it religiously. I have had great success coaching athletes who are not even remotely geographically close via video review. It is incredible people are not all up in it all the time. One day it will catch on i guess.

[@hazenpaul10]

Have your students follow the paddle blade with their head, this of course means you need eyes open under the water so a pair of goggles may come in handy for first timers!

[@tommyrq180]

Really helpful explanation! Your direction to always get in the proper setup position is more than just a good idea. It is a mental cue to relax, get your stuff together mentally, and reestablish your sense of body position. For me, just getting a good relaxed mental state is indispensable. Of course body movement and position are critical, but especially in very cold water it’s important to counteract the cold shock with a little mental chill, as it were. 😅

[@TheOfficialDOP]

Thank you so much for this, I needed this, I was rolling successfully consistently and lately I’ve been missing rolls and pulling skirt (which I hate) but I believe that all of these will help me dial it in and correct what needs to be fixed

[@SethAshworth]

GET IT! and keep me posted on how its progressing

[@mciro]

Very useful thanks

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for checking it out!

[@georgehirsch9152]

Thanks, now it’s time to practice

[@Missinaibi1]

Thank you! this is some high quality content. I have started to botch rolls in my playboat after years of pretty bombproof rolling, and have been struggling to figure out how to correct it, and quite frankly it’s taken a lot of the joy out of boating. Now I see that I’ve even going past 90 and letting my offside hand cross the midline. I’m headed to a pool session now and I’m excited to try these things out!

[@SethAshworth]

Let us know if it helps !

[@MoritzMeyer56]

Great video, Seth. Another commen mistake I often see with people trying to learn to roll is that they don't keep their upper hand under their chin. Instead of keeping the upper hand close to the boat, their arm becomes longer and longer, until their paddle is almost vertical to their body. They loose the lever, their blade goes diving and they are back under water. It's similiar to the last mistake and I will definitely try the "keep something under your arm method" next time.

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for watching, yea it sounds like you are describing a similar situation to one of the things I outlined. Give that 'keep something under there' method a shot and let me know how it works out for you!

[@SmkoeMyWeed]

Awsome video, thanks alot! 🤙🤙

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for checking it out

[@SmkoeMyWeed]

@@SethAshworth Well, I think this video helped me alot. Was taking classes for eskimo. But this video did the most I think.

[@understandingeeg7829]

Thank you very much for making this! This was very useful for me as I am trying to transition from pool rolls to combat rolls.

[@SethAshworth]

thanks for checking it out! Let us know how you get on

[@understandingeeg7829]

@@SethAshworth Thank you will do!

[@jeffolsen4983]

THANKS!!!

[@SpeedyK8]

Thanks so much

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for checking it out!

[@earlelliott9549]

Awesome!

[@nikitazhang1876]

Great video Seth. The third point is what I've been struggling with as I always have the tendency to let go the paddle from my left hand and grab onto the boat as I'm rolling up. Keeping left arm tucked should help...it's hard to notice without a video tho, so thanks for bringing it up.

[@SethAshworth]

Getting someone to video you or setting up your phone or a camera on the bank is such a useful and underused tool, and is yourself worth it. Good luck on tucking in that arm and thanks for watching

[@jamesshort6856]

thanks for this video. didn't know i needed it but i did. Recently been getting back in the water. My role has been a bit rusty. I think im falling for number 3/4, so next time i go paddling i'll have a go at your tips. I used to do 4 all the time, so i think that is probably the main cause.

[@SethAshworth]

USE VIDEO. Nothing will help you more than having a video (ideally slow mo) of what you are doing then break it down. Glad this video helped you.

[@pauldanielewicz1054]

Very helpful video Seth. Look forward to the advanced stuff of rolling without going to a standard setup position first. I would think having mastered the backdeck roll is key to doing that.

[@SethAshworth]

It definitely helps, there are still many videos left to make not he topic of rolling I would say. Thanks for checking out this one, and I have one on the back deck roll if you want to check that out out too.

[@breizhsurge]

great video 👍

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for checking it out. Hope it helps your roll!

[@crimsonraen]

Definitely some good examples that people do a ton when learning to roll. Worth noting that when you're lifting your head up, you're also pushing your right hip down. When your head is down, you're keeping the hip up more. :)

[@SethAshworth]

Absolutely! Great point. Thanks for watching.

[@jasonnolte9763]

Thanks for taking the time to make these as a gumby these help!

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for checking it out, I hope it helped you. Let me know if there is another thing you want more tips on!!!

[@jasonnolte9763]

@@SethAshworth I'm having a heck of a time dialing in my thigh brace and feet im in there snug but knees need something from the bottom or side and my feet ankles need like a angle to them instead of flat on bulk head. I have a dagger Katana I use most and a piranha Creek boat they both wear me out im in the river 3 days a week for fitness and roll practice.

[@SethAshworth]

@@jasonnolte9763 Good one. Something I do not do personally because it doesn't bother me, but I have seen others do is glue a wedge shape piece of foam to the foot block to raise the heel and give a different foot angle, which might help you. Another thing I have seen but also do not do is glue a larger wedge shape piece under the knee to push the knee into the thigh hook. Jackson kayak is coming out with a new thigh grip product later in the year which is gonna be awesome from the prototyping I have seen but I can't really say more than that at this time. On my freestyle boat I use the jackson kayak inflatable Happy Seat (not to be confused with the sweet cheeks butt pad) which inflates under the legs and helps push the legs into the thigh grips. you can still wriggle out past it if you are in a jam because its just air. Might be worth trying to see if it takes the pressure off. Hope that answers your question!

[@troyharcourt3846]

great content and I've never heard the stick under the arm concept. I say I never "lose something" but I've "temporarily misplaced my roll" the last few years due to lack of practice.

[@SethAshworth]

It’s a somewhat perishable skill. I say somewhat because if you have a good one it comes back quick

[@ourwilliam2405]

Great explanation. Would this help with a waveski? Thanks for sharing Watching from chile

[@SethAshworth]

!gracias! I am not sure as I have never waveski’d but probably

[@ligitasstravinskas7182]

Thumb up your bum! 😂 Sometimes, all you need is an expression like this and it will click and stick with you for the rest of your life ✌️ Great content Seth, thank you!

[@SethAshworth]

That is not an original idea, another kayak coach said it to me, probably someone else said it to them, but it WORKS!! Thanks for watching.

[@richie_waverider]

Holding the inside arm tucked in. Nice. I wonder if this will work on a Mega Cyclone Surf Kayak. I'm a newbie rolling in the ocean waves.

[@SethAshworth]

Honestly the ocean is a tough place that I have limited experience in. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, not an ocean specialist and have never claimed to be. I would guess it is close though

[@garyreynolds2929]

Outstanding video!!! Question!!!! I normally keep my eyes open when rolling, but often practice with eyes closed. This causes me to rely on feel, and I often believe I am more aware of my body positions this way. What are your thoughts on eyes closed or eyes open?

[@SethAshworth]

I like to think train how you fight, so once you have your roll dialled then practice both ways. Always be ready for any situation. That’s my two cents. Thanks for checking out the video.

[@aiacopino]

Thank you man...always helpful...I'm struggling with keeping my boat in the same direction...I mean after I finish my roll most of the times the boat comes out 90 degrees from the start up position... Could you help me troubleshooting that? Thumbs up from Argentina!!

[@SethAshworth]

It is totally normal for your boat to turn. Your body moving into the start position of the roll is usually gonna mean your paddle moves under the water, this is gonna effect your boat. Totally normal. The thing you need to work on is rolling up and taking a couple of forward strokes to help you regain your balance and composure. During this time, figure out where you are, turn your boat where you wanna go and then get going there. Hope that makes sense! Thanks for checking out the video.

[@aiacopino]

@@SethAshworth Muchas gracias... Ill keep that in mind. I{ve see most of your videos... very helpful! Thanks again!

[@SethAshworth]

@@aiacopino De Nada tio!

[@PALSRide]

Helpful it gives me something to think about when I practice. Quick question I find that I can roll my creek boat easily but the play boat is more difficult what’s your thoughts

[@datawrangler81]

What are your boats? When I was testing play boats in 2016?7? Some were harder to roll than others, and the Burn Creek boat rolls easier than any of them. I settled on the Jackson Rockstar. The Jedi and the Jitsu were both a bit harder to roll for me.

[@PALSRide]

I have a LL Stomper 90 had a magnum 80 and the play post is a fun 4

[@SethAshworth]

Yea boat shapes do vary ease of roll somewhat. If you have practiced alot you can overcome it though. I highly recommend quality practice over switching boats though. Make sure your paddle is correct size too.

[@rimuruu5713]

Hi Seth. I have been rolling up well ever since the first time I rolled up but now lately I have had trouble rolling up because my paddle is sliding the water. Do you have any tips on how to fix this? Cheers.

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for checking out the video. Hard to say for sure without seeing a video but I would guess that probably a fix for you would be to take more time setting up and double check your paddle is sitting on top of the water with your wrist cranked on that ‘gas the bike action’ I think I mentioned in this Video or one of the ones on rolling. Can’t recall exactly. Hopefully that makes sense. If you get a video and post a link I can give a better idea

[@yru435]

#4. That roll fails because paddler tried to lift his body out of the water prematurely. It had little to do with 'both hands on the same side of the boat'. Keeping your non-sweep arm close to your body as you sweep your paddle & body is effective. In fact, extending your paddle as far as is practical is useful: longer arc of sweeping and more leverage. When you activate your hips and your body rolls up near the back deck, it brings your arms into proper position.

[@philipoakley5498]

The distinction looks a bit subjective, in that often all these different advice videos are a change of perspective rather than locating the core of the problem (which is usually developed much earlier by the paddler). Advanced paddlers have a real hard time remembering what it was like being a beginner flailing around, so we all end up offering 20/20 hindsight tips, most of the time.

[@followingrj]

So as far as the 4th point in this video with the left hand (or whichever side you roll on) crossing over the mid section, I’ve had my GoPro on my bow facing me to monitor my sweep rolls and my left hand always crosses over my mid section and I’m rolling every single time effortlessly. Wondering if this is something I need to address even though my rolls are successful or if it’s one of those “if ain’t broke don’t fix it” type of thing. Would love to hear your thoughts Seth.

[@emmajohnson5766]

Good stuff. Breaking bad habits are very hard. Any tips on how to remember how to keep your body on the surface vs. pulling down with the top blade? It's like I forget to sweep sometimes

[@SethAshworth]

DETACH! Get your mind out of panic mode and follow the step you have practiced. I did a video late last year on building under water confidence. Check it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpTGf6GGosl2ZrM If you are confident upside down and you have practiced your roll plenty then you will never forget to sweep again. Doing practice can suck but it makes you better over time. Quality practice that is.

[@emmajohnson5766]

@@SethAshworth thank you - btw I just started watching your videos during COVID and they are quite excellent. Thanks for helping us all be better boaters!

[@SethAshworth]

Awesome! Hopefully there is some useful stuff in there amongst the less useful/stupid/entertaining stuff.

[@raysimkiss8031]

Would like to see a video about roll position finishing the roll that would be interesting

[@SethAshworth]

It’s in the pipeline

[@Andrew-jt3gy]

I’m just learning how to roll in a swimming pool but I am putting to much weight on my paddle any advice?

[@SethAshworth]

As little as possible. It should all be coming from hips and legs

[@brandonb9830]

I'd like to see a vid demo on your technique how to roll from any position after flipping upside down.

[@SethAshworth]

Yea I for sure think an advanced rolling video is down the line somewhere this year. Reps is really most important. If you have a good roll (regular) and a good back deck and you flip alot eventually you won't need a video to explain it. Just roll more!. Thanks for watching.

[@brandonb9830]

@@SethAshworth gotcha, thanks.

[@adventureairwaves]

Great stuff, Seth. I have had a good, relatively swimless 3rd year of paddling (Class 3-4 mostly) in a half-slice...I just switched to a creeky boat (full displacement hull) and my roll disappeared. Maybe it's mental...or maybe my previous boat (axiom) was somehow letting me get away with bad technique....anyway, I know that a roll should work in any boat and all that stuff that people say...but I notice my paddle diving, a feeling of zero support from the blade, and an inability to recover my body back over the deck. Perhaps the axiom was easier to hip snap under my body? I get halfway up in my creeker and then dump. It just feels like a slippery edgeless log. Anyway, I went back to a C2C and that seems to work better in this bulbous boat. Do you feel a difference in rolling a higher volume displacement vs a slicey planing boat? How much of a factor is core strength? Would you suggest mastering the C2C again and then working back to a more dynamic roll?

[@SethAshworth]

Some boats are definitely easier than others in my experience but once you have a solid roll it will always be solid. The biggest factor is solid technique. Paddle up, head down, strong hips. If you have a solid foundation you will be all set but you have to do leg work on strong basics and it will pay off down the line. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching!!!

[@loisbartlett3182]

Please can you do more videos with kids as me and my daughter love to watch kids doing white water kayaking.

[@SethAshworth]

I’ll Do my best

[@loisbartlett3182]

Thanks

[@Dan.P9009]

I've trying since 2 days and i dont know why my paddle always going too deep to have enough power to finish my roll over :(

[@SethAshworth]

Focus on correct set up. Use swim goggles to see if your paddle is in the correct position. Then once you have a fee for it ditch the goggles ASAP.

[@orcaluv]

A common problem I see related to this is people who come un tucked when they are inverted. you'll need to engage your core muscles to stay tucked. You may not have enough power because you are out of your tuck. I teach my students to tuck to the side of the boat. they often tuck too far forward. Drive your head to the side of the boat in the tuck that's essentially an oblique crunch. When you are stabbing your paddle you are also using the wrong muscle groups. You want to use the large muscle groups across your whole core to drive your hips and spin the boat around your spine at the hips. Your arm muscles should actually do very little other than maintaining a good grip on the paddle.

[@joethi4981]

It is strange that I can roll with goggles on every time but its 50/50 when I don't have goggles on. So frustrating because I don't want to paddle wearing goggles. Any advice?

[@SethAshworth]

I would probably take iterative steps to reducing goggle use. So roll in flat, well set up without goggles until comfortable. Then roll in flat no goggles no preset up, then in whitewater set up, and then in whitewater no set up, repeat each step 10-20 times

[@goji059]

keep your head down...simple

[@macfawlty]

Very helpful. Your narrative is good, but it would be better with more kayak roll clips even if they’re repeating forward/backward. You could have done much of this narrative sitting in a kayak on the floor with paddle in hands to better demonstrate positions. Sitting at a desk is a bit out of context.

[@SethAshworth]

Thanks for watching. Hope this video helps fix your roll.