4 Things I Wish I Had Considered Before Going to Music School

A bunch of years ago (more years the older I get), I attended Music School.
At the time, it seemed like the Only Option.
I took out loans to help pay (though I'm grateful that the school supported me with some scholarship - probably not because of my ability but more likely because I made a personal appeal to the jazz dept director)...
...and I had a great experience. The teachers, the ensembles, the hang.
But now, looking back, with an adult's perspective on the value of almost $100,000 for two years (maybe $75 out of pocket), I wonder - could I have gotten the same education for way less?
Disclaimer - I realize I'm a guy with drum courses for sale (the8020drummer..., questioning the value of music college, but I don't consider it a conflict of interest, because my courses don't claim to substitute for a formal music education. Also, they're extremely affordable comparatively. I think when the pricetag is approaching six figures, we have to ask the harder questions.
Hope you enjoy!

[@the_foliot]

Guitar Center lessons program pays 25 and hour with a student and 15 an hour if you don’t have a student (if they no show, or none scheduled, etc). Good side money if you are gigging a lot and want some steady revenue. I have enjoyed it very much. Plus the discount is SWEET. Bought so much gear since starting there. Lol but I have another job so I have some disposable income. Still, 25 an hour isn’t bad to talk drums all day.

[@8020drummer]

Pinning this so others who may need quick income can see

[@the_foliot]

The 80/20 Drummer 👊

[@Carsonbobarson98]

How'd you get that job? I'd love to teach drums at guitar center

[@the_foliot]

Carson Welch call your local guitar center(s) and ask if they have the lessons program, they retrofit old stores with practice studio style rooms to teach in and provide everything you need. I don’t know if every single store does it but it is a company-wide program in conjunction with Hal-Leonard (the company that publishes many of our favorite drummers’ instructional material), they make a guitar center specific curriculum but at my store they don’t mind me teaching students my own way based on what the students goals are. The job has helped me build my own sort of curriculum when dealing with brand new students to move them through the basics quickly and efficiently. Good luck!

[@faethe000]

@Tyrone Slothrop I'm out of the loop there. What does Guitar Center do, exactly, that's so bad?

[@brianburwell6973]

I am a session drummer in LA. Had full ride offers at the many of the big boy schools. I turned them all down and moved to LA and jumped in the water. It took 3 years of super hard work then I was in and making a living. All my buddies who went to school.....not one is doing it now and are paying off school. This comes down to how hard you work at it....how good you really are and your personality. Love your channel

[@Frank1979Zappa]

You should tell and upload your story to show what super hard work means.

[@riverfile]

How did you make connections in LA after you moved there?

[@TiagoLageira]

I didn't know drummers were allowed at music colleges

[@TSTatum]

That’s a good one

[@hecsarlandis6139]

Ha. Ha. Ha. Innovative joke dude imma laugh. :|

[@headphonetribe]

Said the Bluegrass musician.

[@mdrumjack]

sure they are... you know what they say... a drummer is a guy who likes to hang out with musicians :)

[@ricosalomar]

This is anecdotal, so take it as you will. I never went to music school, but I've managed to carve a successful career as a drummer lasting a few decades. You've probably (without knowing it) heard me play before: platinum records, international tours, Grammys, Tonys, Emmys, lots of great moments and I've played with many of my heroes. Instead of college, I drove to LA after High School and started auditioning for gigs and studying with the greatest teachers I could find. Every failure (they were legion) was a new opportunity to learn and succeed. Going to school wouldn't have changed the fact that luck, determination, luck, hard work, luck and fearlessness are the only way to succeed in the biz. But remember, success and happiness do not go hand in hand.

[@DrGray_Drummer]

Of the 3 friends I've had, who have made it at the highest levels (playing drums), not one went to music school. Not one of the friends I have that DID go to music school are still in the field. Something to consider

[@EmondJeremie]

Totally Depends on your Goals. I went and did not finish back in 2010-2012. Going as a Drummer is harder because the majority of what you'll learn there don't apply to playing drums like Scales, Chords, Sight Singing and most of the two thirds of music theory : Melody and Harmony. You'll have to study and develop those on other instruments like Marimba and Piano. For me it felt like learning German with very little mastery of spanish, so I always felt behind and out of the conversation. Music school sells you Knowledge and potential relationships, not a job. But remember that if you return home after graduating, those connections will become weaker and weaker over time because you won't be around the people who you've studied with. It's all about exposure and branding your name on a constant basis. Like don't just hang out with drummers, go and make friends with the other instruments and offer to help. Become the first name that pops in the other musicians mind. (And you don't have to be the best for that). Also are you an artist or a technician ? I studied with artists-composers that did not last long because the context doesn't include creativity, it's more prepare this and learn that and play it like that. And as a disclaimer : I don't consider myself a successful drummer, today I work and teach at a music store for even less money that what's mentioned in the video. So yeah, music school is a tool. What do you need it for ?

[@ggauche3465]

Despite your terror of how old you are getting, you are still very young. I did a music degree 40 years ago and I did learn a lot, and I am still learning now! But probably more important than that are the friends and connections I made then, with my teachers and fellow students, and those I taught. It has nourished me my whole life!

[@freecitizen2760]

Going to study Jazz in college was the smartest move I ever made. I learned theory and how to read and write music. I worked on ear training and I improved my understanding of rhythm dramatically (using a machine called the Tapmaster.) I learned how to sing, play keyboards, and improvise over Jazz changes. I was also taught about the music business. It must have taken 10 years for me to absorb what I was taught. You learn all these lessons and then you need time to apply what you learned and fully digest it. Forget about how the degree (the piece of paper) might help you, just understand that it is the knowledge itself that will make you a competent musician who fully understands the craft and art of music.

[@eboyeman8457]

What is a tap master? I couldn't find anything online about it

[@adamfrost5580]

Music school works best this way if you are hoping it leads to higher places. Start learning your instrument as young as possible, preferably no later than 8/9, have a stellar teacher who knows exactly what you need to succeed on a very high professional level and is constantly aware of the direction the instrument is headed by the modern contemporaries. In short, by the time you are off to the music school, you are not headed there to focus a majority of your time on learning all the courses, because you have already studied them thoroughly and effectively. You’re concentrated focus is to network, and take advantage of opportunities that you’re fellow classmates simply don’t have the ability to obtain because they waited to learn what they needed to know til they got to the school and expected that they would have plenty of time to learn all the materials and concepts and their applications as well as network effectively and be able to get those opportunities. If you plan on teaching for a living, do it privately, you should not be taking any less than $60 a hour, period. None of that pay each lesson or month to month, you must do it in no less than 2 month or (8 lesson) packages at a time. This being said, if you plan to be successful at it, you must provide results, and that requires you to be selective, in that you should not waste your time or a clients money on a beginner who simply doesn’t actually try. You should see your students once a week at least, and be reviewing with them their progress on a biweekly basis, so you can assess what is working and what isn’t and you should know how to remedy any issue that’s holding them back. Focusing on intermediate and advanced students who have the understanding of self discipline, will keep you feeling more fulfilled, and better you as a musician. Having a few beginners will help you learn swiftly how to teach them exactly how to do everything correctly immediately, and have a system that if they have potential will take full advantage of it. It’s taken me nearly a decade of teaching privately as my sole profession to understand how I should do it. Out of those 8 years, I have had only 3 young students who were prodigies, two of which had high functioning autism and perfect pitch, the third was just a normal kid who I’ve worked tirelessly with. The normal kid is the one who stuck with music and didn’t get distracted with video games. I teach him 90 mins a week, he’s 12, been with him since he was 6, and we have a thorough long term plan. He’s going to be that kid at the music school extremely ahead of the curve.

[@twanner_]

I went to a music school that was about $5000 a year and received a pretty solid education. Don’t always gotta break the bank too hard for a good time!

[@RomanDirge]

I'd be interested in your music school stories. I'm an untrained, professional musician and can completely vouch for the doubt about mysterious extra knowledge.

[@stixmalone1273]

Brilliant! Thanks for sharing. Was not fortunate enough to attend one of the elite schools but can read and play (drums, piano, guitar). It is all about passion and love for music - you will find your way.

[@drbassface]

When I went to Berklee 79-81...my tuition was $1,150 per semester. All my tuition was paid for by two Gov grants. I just had a NDStudentLoan of $750 a semester for expenses. I was lucky. Today, costs are insane. A lot of our musical heroes need gigs...and where are they earning a living? they are now teaching at these schools. My experience there was invaluable and helped make me a much more versatile player. I already played pop/rock/and funk. Berklee didn’t teach that at that time per say...but my jazz playing got better and comes in handy these days. The very Best Thing, was that I chose to Transcribe everything. That is where the real stylistic lessons dwell. That and recording yourself, and listening back. Carry on!

[@magone8674]

I'm in college in New Zealand, so high school for you guys. I've been taking music as an class option for 3 years now, its helped me improve my drumming substantially compared to my progress when i would just play at home. Learning new pieces for Jazz band, has given me a sense of journey, I guess. Reading new charts, practicing grooves and finally playing in front of a crowd. The whole process has been such fun and satisfying for me.

[@jeffreyGarus]

@magone Can we talk privately, Im also from New Zealand, would love to hear about your experience :)

[@benjiwill]

The fees at these music schools are wild! I very nearly uprooted to move overseas to want to go somewhere like Berklee, then after a while realised I could save on the crazy amount of debt, did a couple years at a ‘inexpensive’ local music school, bought some nice gear, got some solid lessons from local pros AND did a bunch of overseas adventure trips for a fraction(!) of all those fees! If you’re hungry and disciplined there is so much more information these days readily available than when I was going through the school thing, education in traditional institutions for creative arts is a really hard financial pill to swallow (unless you’re getting a free ride 🤷🏼‍♂️) Network and get involved in the scene yourself, and get private lessons off quality teachers. Gotta be flexible with how the industry is constantly changing, so much more value in life experience, learnt so much more after school, what you learn at school is just the tip of the iceberg. My 2cents, great topic! 😃

[@8020drummer]

brassmonkey yea probably a wise choice

[@nikolaussteinbock151]

thanks, great video again, sure id like to hear more about your music school experience

[@jamesnordhill7301]

Nate, this is a really good discussion on an important topic for college bound musicians. I think an interesting follow on topic might be what music school didn't teach me about being a professional musician. Anyway, thanks for putting this out and your commitment to making better drummers.

[@mattydread6618]

I majored in music for a little while, but did not get a degree in it. I took private lessons pretty much the whole time I grew up. In short I am musically educated and can read music. That being said, most gigs I ever got did not require any of that. Also, look at a lot of the major players. Some went to music school and some didn’t. Steve Smith? Totally musically educated. Dennis Chambers? He states he can’t even read music, but would you argue with his playing?? So I think it just boils down to what you want to get out of it. Being musically educated certainly “rounds you out“, but a dedicated drummer could probably spend the same amount of hours just practicing drums in their bedroom and become quite amazing. Yes to hearing your stories please!

[@ripleyholt4096]

I don't play the drums at all but find the videos fascinating like documentaries on D-Day or how they make cheese. One thing I would like to know (maybe explained in an earlier video) is how good do you need to be before your course is of any benefit.

[@caffeineadvocate]

For me, it was about the names in the percussion faculty with whom I could study. For most, it's about the players with whom you make connections. The loans, though... I graduated in Boston 2009, and am still paying for it. You hit the nail on the head, here. If it's worth it to *you*, for any reason you mentioned, it probably is.

[@Neal_Schier]

Great video Nate. 58 year old airline pilot here and beginning drummer. I liked your analogy to learning how to fly. To get in the cockpit of a major airline there is a pretty set path--military and/or civilian time and working your way up as you build hours and experience. Music seems to be a little different in that talent (however that might be defined!) has a lot of avenues in which to manifest itself and so many endless facets. The real commonality that I have been taking from your thoughts on this however, is that all these fields require just one heck of a lot of work. I am astounded at just how hard musicians work to hone their craft. Lots of years of low pay and tough gigs but wonderful life experiences. Young people need to know that lots of elbow grease is going to be required. I am an old guy and rank beginner with music, but I would say that if a student was thinking of music school that a realistic assessment like you just delivered is a must. You follow these paths, music, flying, law, medicine, etc., because of a deep interest and desire to learn. The word passion is a trite cliche, but it does have to come from within. Plus, education of any type is always a good thing. Keep up the great work!

[@8020drummer]

Haaaaawla - what equipment you on? I'm privately obsessed with flying. Might take a lesson some day when I have more time and disposable income. Interesting thoughts

[@Neal_Schier]

@@8020drummer On the 777 for the airline you mentioned in the video. Drop a line if you would like me to see if any of my JFK/EWR based colleagues are doing private flying up in your area and maybe we can arrange a few ride-alongs if they are taking their plane out for the day. With your drumming hand/foot coordination you would be a snap with the stick and rudder skills. In fact, you would be saying "I only have to use one foot at a time? What a luxury!" [e-mail]

[@jamsparham6144]

Passion is never a cliche if said with conviction. I have a passion for playing but pragmatism overruled and I ended up a dentist now retired at 64. I must say you got to be really and I mean absolutely pathologically stubborn, a lot of talent and organized to make it as a performer. I mean make a good living. I think this is one of the most important videos that could have been made about any professional career, just as in being a pilot. Kids especially today need some real world guidance.

[@Neal_Schier]

@@jamsparham6144 Well said! Mike Rowe, the guy that made the TV series America's Dirtiest Jobs (or something like that), is a big advocate of the idea that you don't just "find your passion, " but instead bring it along to the task at hand. I like this idea as it folds in well with your idea of it being a conviction--a dedication instead of a cliche.

[@RobCartwright]

I went to a relatively expensive music school and left with a composition degree. In my opinion, is music school worth it? Performance degree: No, though the training I received while at music school did ultimately make me a better musician and allow me to support myself playing drums for nearly twelve years. I believe that same training can be had by a good private teacher outside of music school, but this was my experience. Education degree: Yes and it's required for teaching in the education system Business degree: Could go either way. It's often a requirement on applications Composition degree: Yes, but there's virtually no work available. My degree provides me with a few side gigs each year, that's about it. If I could do it all over again, I would've gotten a degree in something computer related while studying drums on the side.

[@sunnibird]

Cost of an education in US is absurd. System needs to be reworked in a bad way. What a joke.

[@xXEvangelXx]

o shit is that a FINNISH flag? torille

[@jtobiasthomasrose]

I'd be interested in more about school. I am not sure everything about the gig economy applies to classical music as well, but I'm glad to hear someone reaffirm what I already concluded: if it ain't full ride or close (or cheap to begin with) there are likely other ways

[@paradidd]

That's why I studied privately with John Riley (funny you mentioned that option) and others, booked gigs, hired guys better than me and logged the hours. I at least knew for me, a performance degree would be useless in what I was looking to do. At 53, I started another business two yrs ago after 26 yrs of being a full time musician. At least I paid as I went, dropping maybe 20K on all the lessons I took and it's paid for. It's been tough being a full time musician financially but I've had some fun along the way playing and have traveled from time to time, though I wish I traveled more. The only thing I think I missed in going to a school is the networking one can do( though you end up doing that on gigs anyway) and I would've loved to have played in one of the big bands. It's hard to find Big Band opportunities outside of music school.

[@jamsparham6144]

I’m curious who you might be. I grew up in Nashville, went to Blair Academy late 60s early 70s. Went to TTU then UT Knox. On scholarships. Ended up becoming a dentist which I don’t regret. Wish I had been smart enough to do what you did. Take lessons from the best and hit the gigs.

[@paradidd]

"The grass is greener" I wish I had gone to Dental school sometimes! Lol!

[@3340steve]

Thank you for the excellent teaching video.

[@banjomango145]

Im going to music school 100%, because here in the Netherlands it's costs 1500 euros a year. No more than that.

[@ffrjegs08]

you're one of the most dexterously capable people i've ever come across. it's gotta be tricky to walk around a metropolitan area while looking at a camera, and and play sick beats.

[@ffrjegs08]

also, yes to more stories and anecdotes~

[@mymusic-gq9fn]

What is a triplet? What is a minor third? What is meter? If you answered YES to any of these questions...Music school might (not) be worth it.

[@boblobgobstopper13214]

“What is a triplet” “yes”

[@LanceWillMakeIt]

@@boblobgobstopper13214 i was just gonna comment that xD

[@boblob2003]

My rule of thumb- never spend more on school than what you’ll make when you get out. I’m old enough to been able to be able to have made enough money. But today, (For example) Berklee is about $70K today all in, so go figure.

[@johnreilly9748]

One real hard question is do you deserve to go to school and do you have talent? Seems we just take it for granted that school is mandatory. I think you could probably get a pretty good education in high school, private lessons. There are also informal places ala school of rock everywhere that you can get good experience and knowledge for a reasonable price. The other aspect wherever you go is can you find instructors you can connect with, that can be difficult! Once again thanks for the insightful discussion you covered a lot of valid topics! Oh yeah bring on the music school stories.

[@ndykman_pdx]

More insights into the music school experience is more than welcome, personally. I wonder how much longer the big name for profit music schools will survive given the overall crisis in student loans. The model of allowing students to accumulate large amounts of debt with little to no chance of them paying it off won't last. What is needed is better support and opportunities at the community and state college levels. This could be a engine to create more demand for live music and music instruction throughout the USA.

[@markjames8664]

A lot of these factors apply to other majors than music. It might surprise a lot of people to learn that a computer science degree isn’t as big a thing when companies hire people as you’d think. There are CS grads who can’t do the job, and non grads who can. If if is a school in the top 10, a degree will get you noticed - but you probably also made connections there that are a lot more valuable. My overall feeling about college is if it costs a lot but Is not top tier, only go if it is really required to get a job, or you are going for the love of knowledge.

[@JColeJohnson]

Greetings......I graduated Berklee (4 yrs.) in ‘83 (the year a bad recession hit) as a drummer with a major in audio recording. I wasn’t in the upper league talent wise, but a good solid player. If I was one of the better players, I would not have graduated because the best players get gig offers and leave. I chose to major in audio recording the first year it was offered. That program has grow and improved and become very successful. Back then Berklee had two (1”) 8 track with 24 channel boards (all analog), and one large studio. While studying I was also playing in a local rock band and was able to record my band on the sly (make friends with the work study students that had keys and record at night). Good times! Back then, I paid $2 to $3K a semester. Berklee now has fully equipped digital studios and I’ve heard that they charge students for studio time? Overall, I had a good experience and met Allot of great people. A recently reconnected with with one of my best friends while there. He’s a bassist and I met up with him when he came to an Francisco while touring with Ginger Baker. Back then tuition was very affordable. I’m not sure how much tuition currently is. Going to school in Boston (before AIDS) with so many colleges nearby presented the opportunity to meet a lots of girls (not at Berklee) and the fond memories of sexual encounters stay with me too this day!

[@jencastle2090]

Yes.. please regale us with music school anecdotes. You're interesting, humorous and informative. And also somewhat of a contrarian which I like. I'm quite old and just literally teaching myself drums on books in my living room so the whole music school thing does not apply here... but I did a Visual Arts degree and see both pros and cons about that kind of thing..

[@dingerjunkie]

I'd like input on something I never hear discussed about music schools. Do they teach "the business of music" as a requirement? What I mean by that is focused on the legal and balance-sheet questions. Publishing rights, performance rights/permissions, ins and outs of copyright law, back-end-points deals on sessions en-lieu of rate/scale pay, tax/expense rules for travel/gear/lessons/promotional efforts, sponsorship negotiation, etc.? What about basic entry/exit contracts (e.g.: when you're the third bassist in the life of an existing, known "band", to ensure you understand your cut of live performance recordings when the previous bassist has a share of publishing rights)? How many people come out of music school REALLY understanding how to "make it to the finish line" as a primary-/sole-income musician?

[@mcsequoia5107]

This begs the question, If you'd considered these 4 things would you've made a different decision? If I could do it all over again, I would've kept playing & studying drums while pursuing a STEM degree. I was lucky enough to be in a school district where art & music were a valued part of one's education. I really had no idea of what I had and should've took full advantage of all the opportunities.

[@fernandoceli5693]

Man, thank you very much. I'm a peruvian musician wondering about moving to the US. This helped me so much.

[@elliotcrane]

Yes, we do want you to delve deeper.

[@ericmsandoval]

2:58 HAHAHA photoshop game on point

[@motorcitysmitty]

Scott Henderson said something profound at a clinic - "Music school only guarantees that you become a literate musician. Becoming a great musician is up to you, not the school". I guess great musicians would be great whether or not they went to school or not.

[@gaddmatt]

Undoubtedly, Berklee has opportunity value IF you already understand how to be a dude people want to be on a bus with for 250 days a year. You get connected with so many future MDs. Also, you're in Boston where there are so many legendary instructors. But even if you don't go the music school and you go on a different career path entirely, the new economy demands that you know how to market yourself and network. You're probably less likely to starve, though.

[@paulnewman339]

Yes! Anecdotes!

[@headphonetribe]

I was in percussion during middle and high school and I was one of the top students. After high school I put my dreams of being a badass drummer in a band. Two years friends convinced me to become a DJ because of my skills on the drums. This was back before the internet was ubiquitous, before KZbin, before DJing for Dummies. I had to teach myself how to do it all on my own. I became a very popular DJ in college that to this day still follows me around. My advice to wannabe Drummers, DJs, Guitarists, Gamers, you can goto school and learn from great teachers, but what you learn on your own will be more valuable than anything anyone can teach you

[@Nowhy]

Music school is just like sports- or an arts school. It can teach a lot about technicality and theory, plus the quality of it has a lot to do with the teachers that one gets; like, having Benjamin Zanders as a classical teacher could mean a world of a difference if passion is lacking (just saw two videos of him that shows him in action in Interpretation Classes), but it cannot make one an artist or virtuoso - living does that. Many classical composers of today had highest honors in the most respected music schools, but their music and career fell flat afterwards... Humor and the human heart are quite tricky as can be seen in the lives of classical composers. Modern people often are lost in their imagination of who they are and rely on others, on compliments etc. to believe that what they have to offer is of worth. This poem relates to this: AP - "Is a Poet a Poet if Nobody's snapping"

[@Mastiff37]

It seems to me that school would also provide motivation to work harder since you are paying big money and being graded, whereas you have to be pretty much self motivated when going it alone. Also, having a curriculum provided versus having to invent it yourself on the fly. Though I'm old, I still struggle with the curriculum aspect of getting better - what to practice next, am I good enough at this to move on, etc.

[@jeffjrums6051]

More content. 25 years of age, been playing for 20. Love where my playing is st on kit and i have my undergrad in performance! Still feeling like theres a void or an absence that im not getting. Your vids help me understand somewhat of what its like or what goes on

[@danielreily2701]

Hi ! I'm the fool who thought you sounded like Napoleon Dynamite ,I think you enjoyed my sense of humor as I like yours. I hope you don't mind a small bit of criticism . You don't look comfortable playing. Then again Charlie Watts does not look comfortable either but who can argue with his success ? So what I am talking about is that the body should flow, move your arms and make it look easy, big sound for little effort. Your holding back ,look like your enjoying it and "Move some Air !", now please accept that from someone who loves drumming but if you ask "What have you done ?" well nothing commercially successful but I am ready for the negative comments but maybe someone agrees (even you !). later Napoleon.

[@LuccaUeda]

I would really like to see some gig vlogs or live performances of yours man! Could you consider it?

[@LanceWillMakeIt]

Lucca Ueda yesss

[@tdrum21]

Good thoughts here. Now for some people there’s the partial scholarship/aid issue. Let’s hear some more music school tales, I’m sure you got some legendary fanfare 😜🎶🥁

[@TheBawss90]

Great video man!! Would love to hear more about this!

[@asdf072xxp]

Music school is mostly about the extrinsics. Personal/professional connections, years of unlimited practice time, and an opportunity to really get into the weeds of the art. Sometimes, there's not much happening in class/lessons (what you're paying for), but there's no other way to make that kind of progression. [MM ESM] Also, you said gigs are 50% musical ability, 25% hang .... I've found it's the opposite. Obviously, you have to be able to play the gig, but there's a million people who can do that.

[@johnb2476]

Definitely want more! Considering grad school soon, including at MSM.

[@pedroahets]

Super interesting episode! More please!

[@Ch0colatepuff]

I'm trying to go to school using music scholarships to chase both. I'd love to hear more.

[@easternsunguitarist5791]

This is super funny and insightful, thanks

[@wolowolowolo]

I studied at Drummers Collective it was worth it on every level, Studying with Frank Katz, Zach Danziger, Dave Weckl (master class) while taking private lessons with Jojo ( unknown at that time) was so great 2300$ 10 week course and Jojo Mayer 35$ an hour... What was expensive was the housing in Manhattan... But in 1995 there was no KZbin and getting great Drumming information was not that easy to find..

[@8020drummer]

Aníbal De León you got a far better deal than I did 😜

[@B_Rowen]

I think it also depends on what kind of music you want to play or how you want your music to be heard. If you want a career in mainstream or popular music of most genres, you'd probably be better off playing local gigs and learning songwriting while you get paid.

[@JustinGauvin]

Definitely do some stories about being at music school

[@Menello]

I want to hear everything about your music school experience! :D

[@sonsauvage]

Two of my biggest regrets in life is not going to the conservatory that offered me a scholarship and chickening out of my audition at the University I did end up going to because I thought I wasn't good enough. The information itself, I have gotten elsewhere. And I still spent a lot of time in the music and recording/engineering schools hanging out and learning that way. But I didn't really make many connections and my reading skills are still pretty terrible. I think whether or not it's worth it are just the same as any other degree track: if you have a real plan or reason, definitely.

[@simoskonstantinidis629]

BEST 80/20 video ever! So true....

[@revjakenash1]

yes

[@xXEvangelXx]

Maybe I'm highlighting my ignorance, but I feel like almost 97% percent of musicians outside of the classical and jazz world (and even some there lol) did not have to go to music school or anything like that to make interesting or engaging music It was that realization that made me drop the idea of music school, as well as the sheer absurdity of dropping thousands of dollars on something that is a horrible, horrible value for what you get. I'm 3 semesters in to my CS degree and despite not being as passionate about CS I no longer feel like I'm just wasting time

[@hanssvoboda]

If you happen to live in a small European country, as I do, with excellent free music schools, there is no question that school is the only way to go. Especially of course since the financial question doesn't factor in. The main reason being connections - school is where you meet literally EVERYONE you will work with later. Breaking into those circles can be difficult, especially when Europeans place a much higher emphasis on education in general, so that folks without degrees are generally suspect. The US is much more accepting, even encouraging, of self-made, self-directed people.

[@Dereinzigwahrejones]

Yes, please more of that stuff

[@outerbanksdrum1026]

I’ve thought of getting a business degree while taking private lessons, ensembles , and music theory classes Yay or nay ? If I’m wanting to teach privately , I’d probably need a ton of business skills . And even if I wanted to work with marching bands, a lot of the internal parts of a lot of Mb programs require some business smarts. Most band directors I know that are hell bent on competitive marching bands have a job they consists of 80% business 20% teaching

[@carloscenteno59]

More about the music school stories please.

[@timobatana6705]

What is your "not my tempo" equivalent situation if you had one? Mine was in church, I was 14 , barely drumming two years and let me tell ya, the piano player might have been satan. Said I had no timing. Always stopping mid practice to publicly correct me in a tone that can only be described as the most efficient tone of mocking and making enemies. Well I had no real lessons and mostly was guessing and learning as I went. I had a few tips from the church drummer and it man I was a slow learner. Ahhh good times. Getting thrown to the wolves is a quick way to test if you have faculties to survive. Now am I a pro? I would say no. But I can get fancy from time to time. And strong pockets with dynamic fills is where I aim.

[@gourdlord2112]

Yo Nate I’m just commenting to ask if you could do a video highlighting Corey Fonville? Dude is a monster I feel like you would dig him if you haven’t already heard him. Haven’t seen one of your player focused videos in a while and I miss them! Edit: you literally just put out a Stewart Copeland video so that above statement isn’t true I just remembered.

[@mj7563]

The lifestyle of a professional musician is not for everyone and what people should consider before taking an education in music is whether they can handle teaching. In most cases they will make considerable less money that their educated peers at most other jobs outside of the arts.

[@thecolorofthesun6261]

Hi Nate, in this upcoming year of school I might have the opportunity to take an advanced music theory course, or possibly do marching band. Which one do you think would be more beneficial in the long term?

[@MegaGuitarplayer92]

You can buy a house for the price of college doesn’t make much sense to me if the reason to go to school is to make more money to pay of a mortgage and such and to get cruise ship gigs easier just doesn’t seem like a good deal I’d only want to do cruises for a few contracts than move on to other things I’d say the money is better invested elsewhere the only time I’d ever go to music school is if I had rich parents to pay for it but Evan than I’d probably have them buy me a house instead or something I also do think music school can deprive you of some creativity it’s good to know theory and stuff but there’s only so much you actually need college teaches you to be a better working musician not necessarily an artist the more time you spend reading music is less time you have to write and that’s where the money is at in music anyway

[@easternsunguitarist5791]

Can you make on how to approach industry professionals for classes?

[@scroxydrums]

Well, it always depends, right? I live in Russia and I attended music school in my youth. It's different here, very conservative. My music school didn't have drums or any percussion - only classical violins, pianos, guitar etc. etc. and tho you could call a guitar or a synth or a piano modern instrument and play very cool stuff on it, all we did was classics. Bach, Chopin, Beethoven etc. There were no jams. There were no music. Old women, very passionate about their subject and inevitably distant from what might be interesting to youngsters. I hated it and hated music and have been hating it for so many years until I started to learn drums in my 19 or 20 in a local school. Not what music school should do, I guess. I don't or rather I do know how it is in America, so I can say, it's worth it, though not in Russia (except for some big cities like Moscow, where there are big music schools and colleges, where they have gigs and even participate in international competitions). *needs to be noted: russian music schools are mostly for children, so a child begins to go to school - he goes to music school as an extracurricular activity. And up until these days, they were mostly free. $42k a year is mind-blowing!)

[@georgepoveymusic]

Feel blessed to be in a country that basically pays for my music education 🙌

[@ethtt]

Great insights, but please help us out and change your heads 😅

[@PAD___]

Nate: what does a music degree offer, in terms of elevating a person's ability to think, compete, and make a life? I have many music degreed freinds that thrive in the non music world. Is a music degree comparable or even better than a Philosophy, English, basic management, or liberal arts degree in building skills that are highly relevant in the world? In short, what specific music school learning donyou see deliver great results in the non music world?

[@HpPmL]

If you have a $150k loan and make $4/hour more with a degree, it will take you 12+ years of work, 300 days a year and 10h per day (not gonna happen) before you actually start making more money than the guy without a degree. If that other dude has managed to work 12 years in that place without a degree, he probably makes $20/h at this point.

[@KeeperOfKeys100]

Stories! More stories!

[@farmer5001]

It was worth it for me at least

[@treycross5618]

I actually went the alternative route you're talking about. I drive an hour and a half to take lessons with a guy and book gigs myself. I'm actually working way more than most grads I know..

[@8020drummer]

Yea, you probably developed some of the "hustle" real musicians need, but which nobody teaches in music school, where the game is "make it to theory on time". Not that theory isn't also important...

[@treycross5618]

@@8020drummer yep but I totally feel that dread of worrying if other people are learning things I'm not. Well put

[@thomasmonson633]

Thank you for making me feel slightly better about not going to music school

[@Nick-yi4tr]

Starts talking at 2:26

[@mediumstudio]

just go out and play - go to school to be a doctor or surgeon or lawyer - any other skill-type of work (especially artistic) is shit you can learn on your own ...

[@bensherman1628]

I’m a saxophonist why am I on this vid

[@chrissoares23]

Same reason us guitarists are hanging out. :)

[@MartinMillerGuitar]

@@chrissoares23 Because he's a smart person that has a lot of thoughts to share that go beyond widdly widdly on our respective instruments ;) (another guitarist here).

[@rocknroor]

I play guitar love this channel but like many guitarist wanted to play drums but mom said no way .and 25 years later still want to play drums

[@danielpinter8655]

More about music school plsss

[@davidbrown9395]

storefront is in Providence RI

[@8020drummer]

Haha I figured somebody would identify it :P

[@BenNixBradley]

Let’s go !

[@ImaginaryAsh]

Hey can someone explain the point he made at 5:05, the last 25% of what gets the gig. Is it something to do with how much more work the band can get out you in the future? Thanks.

[@8020drummer]

Punk Drum Covers it’s your star power. I’ll go see Justin brown or blade play with somebody I’ve never heard of. If your name in the band can increase attendance that’s valuable to bandleaders

[@8020drummer]

I should clarify that I’m Not saying I had this. Although I did get an email back from one venue who thought I was the other Nate 🤣🤣

[@HugoS1142]

Anwsrt no

[@conorreedR2C]

Were you at MSM at the same time Adam Neely was? Have you ever jammed/played a show with him?

[@8020drummer]

Conor Reed nope I was there before. I would love to jam or hang with Adam. I don’t think his circles intersect with mine very much, ironically. I’ve asked many colleagues if they know him and they mostly say “just from KZbin”. But he’s a monster player who gigs all the time, so it’s likely I who am out of the loop

[@jamsparham6144]

Please can you explain why you continue to do that irritating groove through the video

[@ReileyWilliams]

Here's dumb question, is MSM looking for jazz gods or just someone who has promise and is willing to learn? I'm applying this year and I'm by no means a jazz God. I'm the best in my town, but that doesn't mean much and I really want to get in...any thoughts?

[@8020drummer]

No idea how it's changed since I was there, but at the time, they wanted people with potential, as long as they didn't have to pay much scholarship. Like Berklee - and I don't say this to criticize, it's just a business model - they need tuition dollars, so getting in isn't so difficult if you can play decently, but getting in with a full scholarship probably requires a jazz god :P

[@ReileyWilliams]

@@8020drummer I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

[@davidbrown9395]

PL ignite previous stooopid comment. Would love to hear about your experiences

[@andrewhalpin1872]

hmm...debt for all eternity or get lessons from a guy on craigslist...tough choice

[@Flips44]

It’s not worth it save ur money and ur time 🤝

[@Turbulator]

Your videos are interesting, but I find them hard to watch because that jerky editing does my head in.

[@mullrump2]

Dig deeper...very interested, but will NEVER....go there...ich bien voyeur...ya?

[@julienrobinson5849]

In Paris, a great jazz school cost 5000euros a year lol

[@paradidd]

Name some schools in Paris at that price please.

[@julienrobinson5849]

@@paradidd IMEP paris college of music, in partnership with berklee, also the american school

[@paradidd]

Thanks, that is very cheap. US Berklee is over 50Gs with housing I believe now.

[@julienrobinson5849]

@@paradidd ye i saw the price (75k) last week, it was breathtaking