40 YEAR OLD 3-Way Switch NEVER Worked. Is It FIXABLE?

[@hikerbro3870]

"I can do it right, or I can do it fast. Pick one." You guys are awesome. Forget the critics.

[@StudPack]

Thx Bro 😎👍

[@chrisnorden8043]

To quote @Mustie1, "We do it right, because we do it twice."

[@mrchrislatino]

@@chrisnorden8043 When ever I saw somebody working fast or cutting corners I always said "there's always time to do it right the second time"

[@DaddyBeanDaddyBean]

In IT, we say "Cheap, fast, right. Pick two."

[@myrondesjarlait9752]

Had a boss that liked to complain about how slow I was. When we had visitors to the job site it was my work that he showed them. I was also the person that he had fix others work. SMH

[@opinionatedman]

As a sparky I found your approach interesting. Slow and methodical. I was trained with a great phrase in mind "There are old electricians and bold electricians but there are no old bold electricians". It's a shame that never worked right from the start, I've drawn that straw a few times. Glad you fixed it correctly, and the fact you pretwisted your wires, used an appropriate filler plate instead of a dummy switch , and all your screws were vertical are all signs of a professional. One thing I'll add about ohming out wires is the meter can read through incandescent light bulbs and some other loads for any would be DIY people watching the video.

[@WVdavidB]

I've heard that same saying about BASE Jumpers. I've applied it to plenty of guys who were too cavalier for my liking.

[@genebeckley5189]

Just a tip on drilling your hole down for the switches locate which side of the box the stud is on then use a insulation rod next to the wall drill up through ceiling and that will locate where you need to drill down in attic for the wire no need to cut the Sheetrock piece…

[@c182SkylaneRG]

I've heard that phrase applied to pilots. Seems like it fits any number of high-risk careers. :)

[@officerkrupke4966]

@@genebeckley5189 He explained why he couldnt do it the easy way. You can see the beam and stud blocking that access at the 1915 min mark..

[@dietersattler7462]

@@c182SkylaneRG I guess you missed the part where he said there was a beam resting on top of that particular cavity, otherwise very good advice. :)

[@rootandrew]

As a Journeyman Electrician, I appreciate how you inform Peyton safety of not just construction but on basically everything you would run into! You do a great job explaining everything! I really enjoy your videos

[@StudPack]

Thank you Andrew 👍

[@lildado1]

Can you explain how the switches were working the same light with no 3 wire and no 3 way switch ?

[@keithg5473]

@@lildado1 both switches fed from the same breaker (hence no *pop* from panel). If either switch is ON, light has power. Redundancy... it's a "feature" :)

[@4Thug2Life0]

@@lildado1 both switches were each wired to the fan like it should be normally but they didn’t have a common wire connecting the 2 switches. So he used one of the hot wires (which became un-hot once he removed it from the wire nut) as a common and installed new wire to run power bc I just used one of the power wires for your common.

[@jkey3835]

any tips on getting to fully understand everything that happened? I cant wrap my mind around some things lol

[@mr.g937]

That tip about wire-nutting the hot and the neutral and then checking for continuity elsewhere is very useful.

[@Catalyph]

Just make sure your panel is off

[@vlad1889]

@@Catalyph Don't worry, if it not off, it will be :D

[@nathenschultz3004]

@@vlad1889 oh it’s on fuses still…..do you have a spare? Hahaha unless it’s on a zinsco or a federal then you’re suddenly welding

[@stevescherer4954]

I used it to test continuity of cables in a semiconductor fab.

[@anthonyreitano1622]

Can be misleading if circuit in question is broken damaged or unknowingly open

[@y00h0011]

I don't know how many 3-ways that I've had to correct over the years. But, a older lady customer had to go to the bottom of her basement stairs for 10-15 yrs just to turn the lights on just because someone wired the 3-way backwards. I was like..wow! You did good on this one Paul. Proud of ya.

[@Ragnar8504]

The place I lived in for a while I had to walk halfway through the kitchen to turn the light on. The switch by the door leading into the hallway had been replaced, probably by the idiots who tiled that wall, and they flipped over two wires. Granted, the original electrician hadn't made his own life (or anyone else's) unnecessarily easy either. This was in Austria, were every self-respecting electrician runs singles in flexible PVC tubing. One advantage of that system is that you can get a fairly large variety of colours for different functions. That electrician didn't. He used purple for both the travellers and the switch leg, so one switch had a black and two purples and the other, the one that was wired wrong, had three purples. Don't ask me where the neutrals were, I couldn't see a junction box anywhere and they weren't at the switches. Then there was a classmate's mom, who replaced a single-pole switch above a socket. Most European wholesalers and DIY stores no longer stock single-pole switches and even manufacturers refer to 3-way switches as "universal" switches, so that's what she replaced it with. Except she didn't connect the two blacks together as they were but put one of them in the unused traveller terminal. So either the light was on or the radio.

[@shelbykids9036]

Son is having a good time with dad. Construction and wiring is my passion. I wish my dad was cool like that. 👍🏾

[@StudPack]

Hey gang, at one point in this video when I’m tracing out the wires, we moved a couple of cables from their original location and that’s why it’s a little confusing. Hang in there with me, we sort it out eventually 👍👊 Thanks for watching!!

[@matteberry58]

It's happened to so many times. Someone interrupts me to help them and when I come back I don't remember if I moved a wire not... Re-ohm time!

[@therealdojj]

Happens to the best of us, "I got this, I know what I'm doing, I remember where everything goes" and then "Now where did this wire/spring/screw/washer/etc go?" My wife reminds me about "This'll only take 5 minutes" every time I attempt to do stuff by pointing at the car and saying "it was off the road for 8 months" 🤬🤬🤬🤬 🤣🤣🤣

[@DaddyBeanDaddyBean]

@@matteberry58 I had a ground wire connected at an outlet but no ground, so not connected to ground somewhere upstream. I could physically trace the wires under the attic floor and whatnot, and after a couple hours sorting out two large, unnecessarily complicated junction boxes... I got sick with COVID, and didn't set foot back in that attic for two months. I remembered there were some of those wire things inside a couple of those box things, maybe somewhere over in this direction, but that was about it. Started over. :-)

[@torretkong]

OK don't hate me but i think that it could have worked at one point because there was a permanent live at both switches ,that are on the same circuit (note if on different and RCB protected circuit this will cause RCB's to trip. if we call the two switch boxes a and switch b and the connections on a three way switch L1, L2 and common if in switch box a you connected L1 to permanent live ,l2 to permanent neutral and the neutral cable that runes up to the light fitting ,the common connection to the live to the light fitting and in switch box b you connected L1 to permanent live ,l2 to the neutral cable that runes up to the light fitting ,the common connection to live to the light fitting and in the light fitting connect switch box a neutral cable to switch box b neutral cable, then switch box a live to one side of the lamp and switch box b live cable to to the outer side of the lamp, this should give you a two way lighting, its not a good solution but it should work hope this helps (draw it out , i know i had to )

[@TomCee53]

@@torretkong it will work, and I think it’s called a California 3-way. It’s not code everywhere, so he did it the safest way and pulled a new switch leg. I’ve done it your way, when the alternative would have been to tear out a ceiling.

[@richg3411]

Dad's on the job are the best. Treasure these days, Jordan.

[@stemmentor9700]

I learned so much from my dad as a kid. Wanted to play with friends but the skills I learned helped me in my Navy days and doing a lot of my own stuff in my own house. Of course I will always cherish dad s idea of using a 12 gauge to make a hole in roof for a VAT (plumbing vent ). Scared the crap out of me, perfect size who no mess 😆. Hate to try that today.

[@Bootstrahps]

Could t agree more. My dad taught me so many things over the years. I always felt like I was missing out on hanging with my friends but the knowledge I gained from my dad was priceless.

[@Methodical2]

It's amazing what you find in older homes. I'm renovating our '78 Townhouse and I was constantly having WTF moments with electrical, plumbing, drywall, whenever I started working on something or going behind the walls. So called "professionals." While installing a ceiling fan in the master bedroom, I could not detect the studs. As I tried to find out what was going on, I noticed the ceiling drywall was hanging about 5-6" off the joist; another side job to reattach the ceiling to the joist. I spent a good amount of time in the hot attic wiring fans, lights, bathroom exhaust fans, removing insulation to reattach the ceiling to the joist and cleaning out the attic...we are selling this house.

[@em4964]

This is more like a electrics wiring short course for anyone who wants to learn the basics and do a successful troubleshooting at home respecting safety rules first. Nicely done folks 👍

[@StudPack]

Thx E M 👍👊

[@dallasarnold8615]

Great job. One thing that i would add that I learned the hard way, you should put your tester in both, the top and bottom parts of the receptacle, just in case someone installed a split receptacle and did not mark it. I got zapped once because I only tested the top of a switched receptacle. I started pulling out the receptacle and pow. It only takes another 2 or 3 seconds to test both.

[@scottrothe5947]

Very, very good reminder. Check, check and recheck for power. On a GFCI outlet, what I thought was dead after using a plug un tester, was still hot. I should have tested at the wire terminalsI for voltage to be sure it was dead!!!! Live and learn! Check check and recheck!!

[@dallasarnold8615]

@@scottrothe5947 Right on, brother ! I hate those rude surprises. Not sure my heart can take any more. I had a co-worker get knocked out once as he was working on a florescent fixture laying on the roof of a paint booth. He flipped it upside down to get to the ballast and POW. It zapped him. Turns out it had a bared wire and it made contact when he flipped it over. When he fell over backwards on that roof, he hit one of the roof ribs and cut his head open. We got him revived just as the paramedics arrived.

[@hunterbise]

i always keep a hotstick on me and check once i pull it out, especially in 3+ gang switch boxes

[@rjeffsmith31]

all your screws are straight up - you are a master!

[@tested123]

i always tell my customers that troubleshooting a circuit issue can take 5 minutes or 5 hours. but its such a great feeling to find and fix the issue and get paid by a happy customer

[@donho1776]

As a DIY I really appreciate how detailed your videos are including showing that it often isn't easy to correct problems but with thought and effort it can be done.

[@Jeff-xy7fv]

Great video! I'm also a licensed electrician. There are a couple of things I would have done differently: 1) Instead of running 14/2 cable to the fan, run 14/3 cable, then you won't need to use the ugly pull-chains. You could use a wall control unit for the fan while still having 3-way operation for the light. Also, I would have waited until early the next morning to get up in the attic. I would never go up there in the afternoon, unless in winter or on a rainy day.

[@danielhowiesr.2593]

I agree.

[@meaneme]

I thought at the end he mentioned the red wire. That was probably for that purpose but not used.

[@danlux4954]

Always run 14/3 to light fixtures.

[@davidboldt1488]

Great video. Your wiring was originally done by a guy who knows the old knob and tube install design option , there was a point where they would take a 3way switch and put a hot on one brass screw and a neutral on the other brass screw . So the switch would provide a hot or neutral on the black screw (toggled). And you do so at the other location , and use only a single wire in the romex from switch #1 and one wire from switch #2 . Your done , the fan would only have a hot /neutral or a hot/hot or a neutral/neutral at any time . And this works fine .

[@Sparky-ww5re]

I ran across that in a renovation I did early this year in Anderson County South Carolina, a ranch home built in 1952, cloth 2 wire romex no ground, 60 amp fuse panel and 100 amp challenger breaker box tapped off the line side of the fuse panel likely sometime on the 80s or 90s, 10 shades of all f***ed up. On the three ways they ran a single rubber insulated wire from each common to the light. Safe to say the first time I seen it I was scratching my head for what seemed like eternity:) Anyway after the old electrical was replaced with new equipment and wiring I did my research and the three ways were wired in what's known as a Carter 3 way also called a Chicago 3 way among many other nicknames depending on what part of the country. Because this method although banned by the NEC since 1923 actually used one less wire to keep the circuit continuing down the line while switching the light from two locations it was commonly used into the 1960s, possibly later, on farms for controlling a yardlight from the house and outbuilding and have constant hot receptacles in both locations with 3 wires and they could even be on two different circuits in which case they must be on the same phase (L1 or L2) otherwise in one of the 4 switch positions the light will get 240 volts.

[@davidboldt1488]

@@Sparky-ww5re thanks for you comment. My father in law would always comment that back during war time . “wire was expensive and labor was cheap” . Boy has time changed . Lol

[@Rythymace]

Love your videos, nice pacing, no jibber jabber just good instruction and really like to see a father son team work. Keep it up guys.

[@Saki630]

damn this is like a TV show with the way this professional talks and handles everything.

[@tallbrian100]

Trouble shooting is becoming a lost art.

[@StudPack]

Well said thx 👍

[@DaddyBeanDaddyBean]

It sure is.

[@cult_of_odin]

Hell that's my favourite part of my job. Figuring out what's wrong while just seeing the issue for the 1st time.

[@shawnleek4970]

I'm retired. Glad to see a Brother that likes to do things right and still with pride. We all do things a little different, but with the same outcome. Great channel. Drive on Brother.

[@dimitrimichaux461]

As a European I find it always very interesting to see American elektricity wiring. One thing that we do that could have saved you time is using wire in corogated tubing so you can later add an extra wire if needed. Something I'm a bit envious of is the flexibility drywall gives you if you want to add something later on. Here everything is brick.

[@dallasarnold8615]

Dimitri, here in the U.S. we do not use the tubing specifically to prevent people from changing wires after the inspections. You know, there is always someone out there that thinks they know better than the code. Those few have brought about the necessity of stapling down the wires also ensuring nobody tries to change the wiring after the inspection as well as keeping it in place so it does not get pinned by drywall.

[@Smart-Towel-RG-400]

​@@dallasarnold8615dunno where you got we don't do it to stop people from changing after inspection...it's just cost ...the drywall is open if someone wanted to change the wiring after inspection they could lol

[@dallasarnold8615]

@@Smart-Towel-RG-400 That is a matter of I did not state it correctly. I was more referring to homeowners changing after they move in. I know full well that it is easy to make some changes, and some do after the wiring inspection and before the drywall goes up.

[@ImBooX2]

​@@dallasarnold8615Flexible conduit is required by code in some areas of the country. A friend working in Chicago redoing old townhouses has had to use flex-con due to mice and rat issues.

[@andreamoreau9768]

We moved into a house where the previous owners had lived for 42 years. They told us that they never could figure out why their 4-way switches never worked. Luckily, I had saved the old outlets when we replaced them in our living room. We discovered that the first owners had installed 2 outlets new and didn't do it correctly. Our other 6 outlets in the same room were still original. After making all outlets have the same wiring connections...they worked. It was a switched outlet for all 8 outlets in the room. We were so excited to have the previous owners over to show them that they all worked.

[@imark7777777]

If you're going through the trouble of adding a new line to the fan (and have access!) make it a 3+G that way if you ever want to switch the fan separately all you have to do is bump out that box or put a double switch in.

[@jacobplank]

Very good comment! We always do a 3 wire to save time later on! Learned the hard way of course!

[@grandpa6535]

Absolutely.

[@jimrosesadventureinmanilap715]

@@jacobplank LOL

[@alr1577]

He still young. He will learn more in the upcoming years.

[@Leonvolt28]

nah you can just use the ground wire as a switch wire😜😜

[@vera713]

I'm a journeyman plumber been plumbing for 9yrs. Lately I've been wanting to pick up on a new trade. I find this sparky stuff very interesting.

[@tanstaafl5695]

.... and I was so proud of myself in figuring out my first 4 way switch... until I saw this rat's nest and just admired you chasing all this stuff down. Electricity is like computer programming. At the core it is simple, simply yes or no. Electricity is simple. It runs in a circle. How something that simple becomes so amazingly complex is why people like you will forever be in demand. Thank you for this video. Much respect.

[@tomomando1386]

As someone completely new in the electrical field, with zero experience or knowledge of even the basic principles of electrical work (had no idea what a traveler was until now), I was able to understand about 80% of what was happening. You guys are amazing, keep up the good work!

[@kona94]

When testing for voltage you should always test to ground, sometimes if you have a nuisance neutral it will show 0 volts when it’s actually hot

[@StudPack]

Thx Paul 👍

[@lewiswereb8994]

Exactly. If you have a "hot" wire, and test to an accidentally "hot" neutral which is colored the required white or gray,of the same voltage, you meter will read zero. Meters do not even read or see colors.But they never lie about what's there.

[@randyaivaz3356]

Agreed, If the neutral was from a tripped GFI, wouldn't show Voltage. Ground is a Better Reference. Plus earlier you were using a Non contact tracer, why not just use that again

[@SteveWhiteDallas]

​@@lewiswereb8994 That's where the non-contact voltage tester risers to its own glory! Most hot neutrals I've come across are hot because they've become unbonded (no longer connected to the neutral bar, either at the panel or somewhere along the ckt.) But you're right. It will not complete your tester ckt.

[@8fivezero]

As a handymen with a rudimentary understanding of electrical wiring I found the exact same problem in my Aunts townhouse. Spent all day trying to figure that shiz out. Had to call an electrician and he walked me through it while he fixed it. Did the same thing you did. Then I was working on my daughters townhouse and had the same problem plus a mysterious three way switch that resembled yours. Also had a switched outlet in same box. I convinced my daughter she didn't need the switched outlet, so I made it hot just like you. All good. Thanks for the video, wish I had seen it a few years ago.

[@WVdavidB]

Love the video man! Just found you guys and subscribed. My dad passed away when I was 19 so I didn't get a chance to learn all his carpentry knowledge but thanks to u tube I've made my way and been doing all kinds of projects at my house for years now. Glad to see you guys working together.

[@StudPack]

Glad you found us David 👊 and thx for the sub 💪. Best of luck on your projects bud 👍

[@callietho]

This video helped me solve a three-way switch issue in the kitchen of a house I bought this year. It took a while (8 hours), but I eventually figured out that I had an older switch with less obvious screw coloring and configured it differently than newer switches.

[@rogerflanigan6427]

When I wire new I always put power in and out on the bottom and switch legs on top.. avoids confusion down the road.

[@StudPack]

Cool. I was taught power in/out at top left of all boxes. Same idea right 💪⚡️

[@L8terdays]

You are so lucky to have a father who can teach you so much. My father left when I was 4 years old. Never knew him. So when I see how your father works with you I'm certain you feel proud of him. You have a great father. He's very smart. I know he loves you.

[@StudPack]

Much appreciated Steve 💪👍👊

[@markpfeifer1402]

I knew you were gonna end up in the attic on this one.

[@StudPack]

Seems like my destiny 🤣👊

[@y00h0011]

lol

[@danielwoolfe1135]

I love the dynamic that you two have. I hope you realise what a privilege you have to share passion together and be working with your father/son so closely, and have that time.

[@mcclurejc1987]

When the fan makes a crashing noise off camera and then, "You can trust me." I died.

[@TheducksOrg]

Greetings from Australia - Have lived in North America before, did some network cabling, changed a few switches, but 3-way wiring is always something I had a hard time understanding - you did a great job of explaining everything in this video. Love the ohming out technique for identifying cables. Well done!

[@StudPack]

Thx for watching 👍👊

[@shockthenorth3316]

As a rule of thumb, people always use the term "common" for the wire that goes on the black screw. If you want to remember what goes on the black screw of a 3-way switch, it's either your power, or your switchleg. Travellers go on the gold screws. I've had many apprentices and even fellow electricians who couldn't comprehend a 3-way switch, remembering what goes on black, fixed their confusion.

[@lufia1624]

As a novice DIY, the only thing i have to add that others haven't already said is, "Oh my god how did i not think of thr vacuum trick?" Now I won't have to waste 5 minutes going from the farthest basement corner, up the stairs, through the kitchen and into the rest of the house to see which switches turned off! Thank you!!!

[@htownblue11]

God Bless ya Paul and J…..taking the hard road so the client has it easy with no worries. Great lesson on wire troubleshooting.

[@lewiswereb8994]

A good subject for you guys to cover might be the 4 WAY SWITCH WIRING,. As simple as it is not many DIYers can figure them out to install OR replace.

[@jameswatkins7263]

I had the honor of adding new lighting and receptacles to my grandfather's work when he was an electrician back in the 70-80s. I dislike the old cloth tape from the old days, IF I have to remove it... lol and I quit saying "this should be an easy job..." old houses and plaster boards is never easy nor quick...great videos

[@jmaxim80]

Good work fellas I bet those home owners were happy after all those years of goofy wiring. Now we just need to clone you two and ship ya all over the country so we can rebuild America with a little pride and quality work. Thanks for the video👍👍👍

[@amoszook3775]

yes

[@evelynad445]

I know he is "ITCHY" as Hell in the fiberglass! (Bless his heart)

[@azpcox]

Those switched outlets by the front door were very popular. Floor lamps were the rage. With the proximity to the outlet closer to the door, I would have left the outlet switched and left all three switches in operation. Maybe floor lamps are coming back. Or a smart switch for Christmas decks. Besides, it gives the grandchildren something to figure out when they visit. ;)

[@StudPack]

😀 thx 👍

[@johnhaller5851]

Or for more fun, leave one plug of the outlet hot and the other switched. Hard to do with Romex in a short wall, as it needs another wire to the box. Conduit for the win.

[@Rbenterprises4]

Both of my 3 way switches would make the garage lights flicker if you twisted the switches. I hooked both of the new ones up and remembered you said “make sure the travelers on one switch are color coded on the same terminals as the other switch. Voila! They both work properly now. Before I color coded them, each switch would turn the light on and off, but one would not shut the light off on the other. Thanks for your clear instructions!

[@geraldpolmateer3255]

In my years of construction it has been amazing the problems I have seen done by those who should have known better.

[@etjson270]

Wow. To see you take a complicated problem and methodically solve it, and make it a piece of cake was awesome to watch. I've been an electrician for 27 years and that's commendable by any standard. I like your channel, and enjoy your content. For DIYers, you guys are Pros. You definitely were trained by a great electrician.

[@therealdojj]

Looks like another great video, incorrectly wired switches are really frustrating

[@StudPack]

👍👊

[@danrude5418]

Great explanation of 3-way switch circuit. In these older houses, mine was a Rambler/Ranch built in the 1966. I found that the Switched Outlets in my Living room used 14-3 and were fed by a 12-2 circuit. The circuit was fused at 20 amps. So I had to downgrade the circuit to a 15 amp. Was easier when I had main Electrical Panel upgraded to a 200 Amp Breaker Panel. When I taught Basic Electricity and Electronics at Tech Schools, I always taught how to wire a 3-way Switch circuit.

[@lewiswereb8994]

Can you wire a 4-way? If not, learn it. It is simple.

[@markg7963]

For this video in particular, it might help to show a schematic of what you had before, and what you did after. That wire pull looked like a pita. I’d love to see a video on the drywall repair. Also, was the fan and fan light all wired into that same switch? What a mess.

[@StudPack]

I actually bought a whiteboard and had intended to show the wiring before and after but that would’ve taken a lot more time and we were already there very late 😟 Yes the fan and lite are on one switch

[@ev3091]

Mark G, any other question you might have? Dude just watch and enjoy the video

[@Ragnar8504]

It looks like there were two neutrals and two switch legs (each from its own single-pole switch) feeding that light, so if at least one of the two switches was on, the light was on. Both switches had to be off to turn off the light.

[@hls6925]

As a (retired) electronics/electrical engineer in the UK, I wholeheartedly agree with your comment about showing a schematic; I know electrical house wiring is much simpler than (most) electronic circuits, but it still helps having a schematic! Incidentally, I hate the way most manufacturers of electronic equipment don't supply schematic diagrams any more - try repairing a modern flat screen TV these days!!

[@cegentry]

Comments about how long it takes to do a project? That tells me that you guys are more than likely doing it right and not cutting corners. The entire reason I have learned to do so much of this stuff with help from people like you. I can’t find anyone who can do anything right. I ALWAYS have to come back and fix it myself. Wish I would have learned this kind of stuff long ago I might not be so broke and depressed/unhappy in life.

[@sik6hundred]

I hear you on the snowball effect. That's why I play dumb when friends ask me for help 😆

[@myrondesjarlait9752]

I tell my friends that I charge $125 per hr. W/ a 2 hr. minimum. "But I'm your friend" "OK...$150 per hr.".

[@stemmentor9700]

Someday I will learn but I like to be,p others out. Older and wiser now it’s those who don’t have the $$ to hire a full time electrician. Drawback is I do this on my spare time to help so it may take two days or two weekends to finish up. Lady I m helping now told her I won’t touch XYZ as she has life saving medical equipment in their and whoever did her home renovations prior I can’t figure out the mess. And she will need an electrician who is licensed and has all the tools n time. It’s insane how some DIYr know just enough to be dangerous 😵‍💫

[@TomCee53]

@@stemmentor9700 I agree.I know enough to know when to say “no”.

[@paullproductions]

Watching this video reminded me of trying to find an open ground. After troubleshooting I found the ground not bonded in the ceiling light fixture. It was a great feeling to finally find the problem and get it fixed

[@RehabLife]

I see this all the time. Someone doesn’t understand the concept of three way switches but dang if they don’t try. My advice is to always have a competent person do electrical work.

[@jimanderson4495]

I know you were scratching your head for awhile, but finally got it. Now that’s SATISFACTION! I like that you were taught about 3way switch positions. Circuit off , all switches down. I moved into a new house which had some 3ways like that and some not. When I tried to explain to the “electrician”, he didn’t understand. I asked him to leave, then fixed myself. Get a tripod for the camera and the young gun climb into hot attic. LOL Thanks for the upload.

[@StudPack]

Much appreciated Jim 👍

[@javiergalvan242]

Another great video Paul and Jordan, with great end results. It's a pleasure watching your video's while getting some tips as well. Both of you remain blessed and we will talk on the next one :)

[@StudPack]

Thx Javier 💪👊

[@gregl9305ass]

Pearl River Louisiana sparky here. Electrical has been a big part of my life ever since I was knee high going on jobs to make money my paw paw became a sparky and and my Dad my uncle and me and my son is following in our footsteps. It's awesome to see family in a trade we are a dying breed. Thanks for the video. Enjoyed it brother.

[@StudPack]

Thx Greg 👊 used to watch NASA tugs go up and down the Pearl when we were kids 🇺🇸

[@ballhogjon]

I click the like button because I love the creative ways you guys come up with to ask us to click the like button!

[@mikekennedy3173]

Man O Man what a great video! Much appreciated the lesson! I am a retired Elect distribution lineman, but now you have gifted me with a new perspective of how interesting an incredibly exciting you indoor electricians have. I have been working as a volunteer with a local indoor electrician locally and been working on my own home, and Thank you so much for your great lessons!

[@hijinks21]

hardest part about electrical work is packing the wires back into the box

[@MotorBorg]

Especially with our tiny euro wiring boxes

[@mihovildanicic5305]

@@MotorBorg AMEN!

[@lewiswereb8994]

Amen! The rest is simple shit!

[@thomasglessner6067]

Bravo. Paul you were right those switches were always wrong. It is really fun watching you guys figure out a way to fix some else's problems. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.

[@dienekes4364]

I would have loved to have seen the diagram that you created for this.

[@samsiryani9023]

A great way of explain the proper process to figuring out a electrical problem and fixing it correctly with the help of your number one helper. Great job sir much respect.

[@larryroyovitz7829]

When I used to do PA system installs in buildings, community halls - you name it, I had a wireless ohm meter. You clip on end on a wire and touch the other side and continuity would go wireless. When doing masses upon masses of speaker cable going to unlimited spots, it was a necessity.

[@rty1955]

Wireless ohm meter???? Explain this

[@camronconlee944]

@@rty1955 I would guess that he’s talking about a wire tracer or tone generator as they’re sometimes called. It has two pieces. You connect the first piece to one end of the wire and it injects a signal onto the wire. When you touch the other piece of the system it emits a tone if you are on the same wire.

[@rty1955]

@@camronconlee944 haha I have never heard that device called a wireless ohm meter as it doesnt measure anything. The telephone company has used that type of device since the 60s we call it a toner. It actually inject small power RF into a wire. Btw I am EE

[@larryroyovitz7829]

@@rty1955 Well, wireless ohm meter, isn't correct, it didn't test resistance. I should have said wireless continuity tester. My english isn't great. 😀

[@larryroyovitz7829]

@@camronconlee944 Correct, I chose bad words!

[@roberttdaniels3857]

VERY informative!! We bought this old house that has a light switch at the top and bottom of the stairs. You can turn the light on from the bottom, and off at the top. When off at the top, the switch at the bottom doesn't work. You have helped to start me in the right direction. Thank you!

[@milesharlan1]

Great trouble shooting video!! Love the details of the wiring repair!! Feel free todo more trouble shooting videos in the future ! Keep up the good work & see you guys in your next video!!

[@StudPack]

Thx Miles👍💪

[@jackjacob8001]

Awesome - Awesome - Awesome! You uncovered and fixed a problem which appears to happen a lot in homes across America. Great Job! And Thanks for explaining everything!

[@50sKid]

very cool man, I like these kinds of electrical detective work videos 👍

[@frankhynes4514]

Like the videos, not sure you positively found the hot feed. On first hot feed open it up to make sure there no other hots in all other boxes maybe you did that and I missed it.

[@odie00zero]

Holy porch light install…….absolutely enjoyed this video. After working for multiple home flippers I can relate to this in my soul. Your positive attitude is inspiring. I’ve wanted to pull my hair out on every single project.

[@DFGHJ29]

Right way and easiest way to 3w switch is to travel 3/14 to each box and travel from the box that have no hot to the light or fan etc and feed power by the other box but you can feed from the box that have power and go to fan by 2-14 but you travel switch’s with 3/14 Nice job there Great fix for it to work though

[@georgebush6002]

I get the impression that similar lengths and closer distances between hot and nuetrals are best, so 3/14 between switches seems ideal

[@scottrothe5947]

I really enjoy watching your videos. I am a retired refrigeration Tech age 65. I do the same type of work now that you all do except on a smaller scale. I do my work by the book! You and I are in lock step in how we do our work. Great video. I realize this comment probably is not news to you but may help someone else. Doing work in an attic is difficult at best! To aid in having an ample work platform, so you aren't laying on 2x rafters and risking falling through the ceiling, take one or two 1x 12's x 3 or 4' long or 3/4" plywood scraps 3' or 4' long with you to walk on and lay on. You can use the two 1x boards to work your way across the rafters if need be. I also take a canvas bag or an old 4 gal bucket to use as a container for all my tools etc. that I take with me. This way I don't loose tools etc. in the insulation and it is much easier to transport what you need. One other helpful trick I use when doing attic work is to use a head light and a hand held flash light as back up. Sometimes I use a 120 volt trouble light w/ outlet. Keep your videos coming. Great job!!

[@StudPack]

Thx Scott super appreciate that 👍👊

[@rogerfarley7823]

You know what they say, "No good deed goes unpunished." lol

[@jthonn]

Sounds like a Jerry Rosa comment...

[@markconley9279]

You’re a natural teacher. I’d work for you no pay just to learn.

[@StudPack]

Thx Mark 👍

[@abdulelkhatib2674]

4:55 when the painter's helper's friend's drunk uncle says yeah I can hook up switches.

[@StudPack]

“I’ll do it for $20” 🤨

[@stemmentor9700]

@@StudPack 🤣. Plus another 6 pack

[@Smart-Towel-RG-400]

The wiring in my house was soooooooo messed up

[@rsmith7292]

I had a townhouse with a 4-way switch that didn't work. I finally got all the parts of it to work. Thanks for another great video.

[@videolabguy]

Great video! (as usual) God, I love watching people work who know what the heck they are doing. It's pure joy! Thank you, gentlemen. My favorite test of your common electronics "know it all" is to ask them to draw the 3 way switch circuit for me. Then I drop the nuke on them when I say, "Now add the third switch". I love that deer in the headlights look! Go ahead, try it if you don't know the answer. Don't cheat (yourself) and look it up. You will love the solution when you find it. You're welcome. Trivia: The three way switch is what is called a "parity encoder". It becomes most apparent when you have more than two switches on the circuit, as in multiple landings in a stairwell. The rule is, if an even number of the switches are up, the circuit is on. If an odd number of switches are up, then the circuit is off. OR vice versa depending on the preference of the electrician to install all of his switches in the same orientation as shown in this video. Parity encoding is used in computers as a simple first order error checking mechanism.

[@lewiswereb8994]

The "3rd switch" you speak of is nothing more than a 4-way switch. You can put 3 or 4 or 20 or any infinite number of switches on a circuit to control a single lighting, motor, or a receptacle outlet if you know the circuits.Above all, learn those first. And forget depending on colors. Design and trouble shoot by using circuit knowledge.

[@jfinaz99]

Hey, I'm the drywall guy that wired the place when it was built. It was workin' just fine then. You did an outstanding job of editing that video. If it were me making one 'discovery' after another as you did, it would be video ONLY, no audio suitable for air play. Nicely done, you're a saint and thanks for sharing.

[@saigyl9149]

from the look of the porch light, whoever messed up those switches probably did the siding

[@micuzzu]

yea yikes

[@stemmentor9700]

😱

[@Jeff-xy7fv]

No doubt! Bunch of hacks.

[@l.rod2827]

I'm no electrician, but I have worked on many circuits, 120, 220, and once on a 4160 power line assisting to install very large fuses (don't remember the fuse amperage) using an Altec bucket truck. Let me tell you slamming a fuse in with a dead stick and watching it blow due to a dead short is a shorts filler, so switching some wires around is OK. I always enjoy your videos. You and your son do some amazing work, and great narration of "how to". Keep up the great work. I believe it makes us all better at our trades.

[@StudPack]

Thx 👍👊

[@oreofreak6103]

If this is a townhouse. I would assume the wiring next door is also messed up too.

[@paulroberson2089]

The problem is that one of the travelers is on the single screw. All you had to do was continuity out from one 3-way switch to the other 3-way switch to identify the travelers. Either the point or the hot was tied to one of the travelers. That's why one switch had to be in a certain position for the other to work correctly. I'm confused as to why they took the fixture apart before checking that first.

[@cheeseburgerbeefcake]

Another case of the most expensive cable is the one that didn't get run! Something that might confuse the next guy is labelling the incoming support to each pattress as red and also identifying the feed to the ceiling light with red. Really nice approach to troubleshooting, really shows how many times you've been through this and seen the pitfalls.

[@hasserecht3678]

i totally love it how the whole junctionbox moves and wiggles inside the wall whenever he touches a wire. Is this american craftsmenship?

[@danlux4954]

Some bad builder didn’t secure the box properly

[@munsters2]

RE:Maurice Woelk. Has nothing to do with "american craftsmenship". You will find good craftsmen and bad craftsmen in every country and every occupation.

[@josephmartinez7006]

First video I seen of these guys, they built this floating bed frame with LED light trimming. Awesome son and pop project .I recommend you watch that video it encourage me to teach my 11yr old what it takes to have a good and safe work ethic. HARD WORK ALWAYS PAYS OFF. Another great video gang. Thanks again.

[@imlon2]

Also would have been a good time to eliminate the plug on a switch and run a wire to make the Fan on a separate switch.

[@StudPack]

We did eliminate the switched receptacle. I considered making the single pole switch by the front door control the light and the single pole switch by the kitchen control the fan but that’s kind of goofy in my opinion. Installing a three-way stack switch in each location would’ve been cool but a lot more wiring. The owners were not up for all that. Thanks Lonnie 💪👊

[@mackfisher4487]

Two points for pre-twisting wire nut connection. Two points for having your cover plate screws facing the same direction. Five points for correcting the fan light switch problem. (All indications that a workman cares)

[@StudPack]

Thx Mack 👍

[@JimfromIndy]

Why not just retrofit the standard 14/3 three-way switch wires to the two boxes and fan? It would have been a whole lot more straightforward and require only one additional retrofit wire. What am I missing?

[@StudPack]

Run 14/3 between the switch boxes? Sure that’ll work too but you saw me struggle in that small attic 😢 you want me to crawl deeper in plus I’d need more holes in the drywall probably. The owners weren’t happy that I cut the first one 🤬

[@wcvp]

@@StudPack Hey if you cut more holes maybe you wouldn't have to come back for more stuff in the future lol

[@StudPack]

I can put access panels everywhere 😀👍

[@JimfromIndy]

@@StudPack Always those pesky customers to deal with.... LOL

[@leimengluo4934]

This comment will be short. Thank you very much for the work you do. I learn a ton by looking at your videos. Wish you continued success. Blessings

[@Bigbacon]

who did that siding???

[@stevebengel1346]

I know 😂 Good Lord, that mess around the porch light

[@StudPack]

Yeah isn’t that special!! “Just cut a big hole in it” 😳😡

[@stevebengel1346]

@@StudPack 😂

[@victorbruce5772]

Troubleshooting, finding the problem was always the most interesting part. Always liked service work over new construction. Except for attic work.

[@goodwince]

I just had to wire for the first time a single wire to switch and all the other wires were in light. Plus 5 random wires jammed in there for j-box. All so I could add a vanity light to the bathroom. That was fun. Great video. Definitely needed for us DIYers!

[@bethcoale7971]

Yasssss!!!! Needed this post many years ago!!! I have come across this same problem in past 3 houses I've lived in and spent waayyyy too much time trying to unscramble what the heck was going on!! It got easier each time with experience, but I am relieved to know that I nailed the solution exactly as you have here! Stud Pack is the G.O.A.T.!!!! :) 🙌🙌🙌

[@jwilliamson196]

I have 2 mystery switches in my old house. I think I try one this summer. You have to have the basic information in your head before you shove in specific information. My hats off to good electricians.

[@mathewhoffer4541]

One of the most useful comments I have ever heard on u tube over the years .. when trying to determine what circuit breaker powers an outlet plug a vacuum cleaner into it and leave it on when you flip a breaker and you hear it turn off you know its the one for that outlet .... you know that is completely common sense but never occurred to me and I have above average intelligence. I have used other methods that have worked but that was a very easy one and foolproof. Beats running back and forth with a tester.

[@dalaube]

The timing of this video is incredible. I just finished an eerily similar job in my new place with the additional confusion caused by a dimmer switch that controlled both the fan speed and lights simultaneously.

[@StudPack]

BRIGHT LIGHTS. FAST AIR. ✨🌪

[@OakWriting]

SAME HERE. No dimmer but I had two switched wires going to one outlet and two three ways involved.

[@lewiswereb8994]

That's the fault of the dipstick who didn't know how to dim one without the other.Reason it's screwed up, he put the dimmer in the incoming feed wire, placing it in series with (before) the other two connected items.

[@lewiswereb8994]

@@OakWriting..... nothing unusual. Done all the time.

[@henrykalani6146]

Great job Paul adding extra wire to make light and wall plugs function correctly 🤙🏻

[@ahmedm6041]

Man my head hurts just watching this pro doing what he does best! This is to me is a rocket science...

[@davidwostrel]

OH MAN! 24:32 Since I moved into my house I have had these 3 3-way switches and not all of them were in the off position when the light was off, it really has been irritating me for a while, then you said "Turn over the switch" I was like "F ing duh!", so at 11 pm at night I am turning off my breaker and flipping over a switch, AMAZING! Thanks for the help!!

[@draaks1]

I like that you check voltage to neutral. In a screwed up job like this I don't trust the grounds, but you have to have a functional neutral for it to work so its usually a safe bet to check to neutral over ground. Learned that lesson the hard way lol ended up with a nice little zap.

[@R-LoBeats]

As an electrical apprentice i appreciate your care and even going as far as fixing someone elses joints. Sparky approved brother

[@tombonen2152]

Excellent job on a difficult and confusing problem that you might see once every few years (or decades) in your business. Great pacing and instruction. You two do a great job on all your videos. Please keep up the great and inspiring work.

[@keithmcmahan5649]

Thank you and God bless you all. Electric was always hard for me. It requires more homework.

[@edwardcase2658]

putting in the the 3 wire is the best idea. i think i would have rewired the switches for one to work the light and the other work the fan

[@styverdyver]

Just catching up with your fantastic videos! I have a 40+ yr old, 3 switch electrical box with the neutrals soldered together and covered with electrical tape! No, it was not my doing. I am replacing all the switches (one being a 3-way), but will enlist an electrician friend for the job. You did make a complex situation look easy for a very similar situation for me.....thanks!