400w Osram MA/V Medium Pressure Mercury Lamp: First start in 61 years!

[@chrisa2735-h3z]

Lighting technology like this is so much more interesting than boring LEDs!! I love it!!❤❤

[@Norstator]

I read about these as a child in an old catalogue from the 1930s. I discovered they were replaced by high pressure mercury so it's very satisfying to see one in action with all these little details and the distinct noise.

[@deltab9768]

This is very interesting. The tube size, shape, discharge characteristics and electrode configuration are like a mixture between a fluorescent tube and a high pressure mercury bulb. Which makes sense for a “medium pressure mercury lamp”

[@RodgerMudd]

I like the look of the squiggly wire support.

[@Sparky-ww5re]

Beautiful rare lamp. Today 16,000 lumens from a 400 watt lamp seems laughable when you compare it to the same wattage metal halide and high pressure sodium which average between 40,000 - 42,000 lumens for the latest pulse start MH ,and 50,000-51,000 lumens for HPS. However in the early 1930s this mercury vapor lamp which comes out to 40 lumens/watt was jawdropping in terms of efficiency as compared to the carbon and tungsten filament lamps what were pretty much the sole lighting technology in use at the time aside from the carbon arc

[@FrontSideBus]

Certainly is interesting when you compare one directly with a 400w CDM! They have come a long way!

[@Sparky-ww5re]

@@FrontSideBus sorta forgot about the ceramic metal halide 😅😅 Can't say I've heard of a 400 watt version. In the USA anyway I've seen 315 and 630 watt CMH lamps used as grow lights, as well as low wattage like around 50 watt CMH I'm guessing, in shopping malls and grocery stores for accent lights in the 3,000K or so range with very good color rendering, resembling a halogen spot and might have been used as an energy efficient alternative to halogen.

[@FrontSideBus]

@@Sparky-ww5re Yeah, GE in Hungary made a 400w Constantcolor lamp to run on SON gear and Philips made the 360w CDM-T MW Eco for both MBF and SON gear. Little CDM-T lamps were made in 20, 35, 70 and 150w flavours and were once the mainstay of retail lighting! Too bad they are all being ripped out wholesale for LED. In the very early 1930's you also had the SO lamps which were pushing 60-70lm/w but I don't think they were very popular in the US until they became SOX, and even then in very limited numbers?

[@Sparky-ww5re]

@@FrontSideBus correct. In the US the SOX aka low pressure sodium was only used in highly specific applications where the 0 CRI monochromatic yellow light could be used to it's advantage, such areas I'm aware of were near astronomy observatories in Flagstaff Arizona and near southern California, and at or near Beaches with sea turtle nesting area and similar habitats. Unlike European countries SOX lamps remain shrouded in obscurity in the US.

[@FrontSideBus]

@@Sparky-ww5re Amazingly, I know of a few Wardle "Liverpool" lanterns that are not far away from me, that was installed in the 1930's as part of the worlds first widespread low pressure sodium installation, that are still up and burning to this day! Only now they have SOX lamps in them instead of the original dewar jacketed SO!

[@dhelton40]

I am not sure if these were used much here in the US. I have never seen one, I think most street lighting went from tungsten to HP Murcury Vapor, at least in my area. Most street lighting in the 1950's was by 720 watt tungsten lamps. I have a couple of these lamps, as the power companies scrapped them when the murcury vapor lights were installed. Perhaps they were used in larger cities and industrial plants...

[@FrontSideBus]

The technology was licenced to Westinghouse and General Electric ect where it was known as A-H1 lamp or simply the H1 later on. The first were direct copies of the G.E.C design but later they developed their own types.

[@Alexelectricalengineering]

So cool, the close-up shot is amazing 👍👍👍👍👍😎 I have some high pressure mercury vapour lamp i have to test some day. Merry Christmas too.

[@ducksgoquackirl92]

I feel like a fly watching a bug zapper, so pretty as it warms up!

[@SunnyJulienDivine]

The streamer from the ignition probe is quite fascinating. You can observe the same streamer in high pressure MV lamps, it's just a little bit more bundled.

[@StreetLightOnline]

They do look spectacular during operation - as I run my 250 W in the Clearmain, I've never seen the bare arc properly - fascinating to observe how narrow it becomes. I too like the "tinny rattle" sound that they make, and yes; the CRI is delightfully terrible!

[@deltab9768]

You can see the electron emission coming from the pellet inside each electrode, instead of the metal housing. First time O have noticed that.

[@photonik-luminescence]

Wow ! That looks like a beauty !

[@mernokimuvek]

An even more interesting version was the one without a starting resistor as well as the low pressure floodlighting lamps. They use a Tesla coil for ignition.

[@ViatronTumpington]

Hi i'm viatron from Sheffield, I remember in blackpool there were a lot of G.E.C. VIATRON Z8432' 400w MA/V boxed shaped with pointed ends remote gear side entry mercury refractor panel lanterns mounted on Stanton 6b-type 8m concrete lighting columns fitted with single short & medium rear fin tapered curved concrete bracket arms. But when operating an MA/V mercury lamp in an horizontal burning position in the lantern it must have a electro-magnetic arc deflector mounted above the lamp preventing it becoming damaged in operation. Thanks for my information on medium pressure mercury lamps. Viatron of crookes in Sheffield.

[@paulne9]

I was 5 when that lamp was made, I have a couple of 250 w MB GEC lamps from 1980 not powered them up will have to. I can remember these lamps being used in GEC Clear Main lamp fittings in Newcastle, the blue light of the discharge. Far more interesting run up than the horrible LED street lights now :-(

[@FrontSideBus]

I have a few MB/U's and it's interesting when you compare them, the arc tube in the MB lamp is so much smaller! Quite a bit brighter too!

[@Fluorescentlamplover]

I cant belive it! This lamp is rarer than any other bulb like HPS MH MV. And also i love your channel!

[@peterhodgkinson5095]

That is one rare beautiful MV lamp - it be rly awesome if one sees it still in public service to this day Also belated Merry Christmas to you

[@jozefnovak7750]

Super! Beatiful! Thank you very much!

[@LightBulbFun]

what an awesome detailed video :) a perfect Christmas viewing, and very awesome to see that you got one. :) such important lamp, this lamp type, the 400W MA/V was literally *the* first hot cathode discharge lamp on the market, as is the great-great-great grandfather/common ancestor to all discharge lamps big and small that we know today :)

[@FrontSideBus]

If you had to light a road in 1935, would you use MA, SO or incandescent? :)

[@deltab9768]

Being able to start a discharge on a few 10’s of volts is fascinating! Makes you wonder what it would do on a 24V SLA battery in series with a starting inductor or transformer with a few ohms of winding resistance.

[@deltab9768]

Not that I’d try it since it would start out way hotter and then never get to its normal steady state running conditions.

[@TeslaTales59]

Very nice lamp! I would make it your front porch light. Dusk to dawn. Very classy.

[@FrontSideBus]

Would be nice, but I think it's too rare and nice to use lol.

[@TheCORC964]

Very nice lamp!

[@FrontSideBus]

Certainly is a nice oldie, especially the box... they don't make them like they used to eh lol.

[@TheCORC964]

@@FrontSideBus yeah, where did this one come from?

[@FrontSideBus]

@@TheCORC964 Was an eBay seller who was selling a lot of other various antique stuff. I had it in my watch list but I never had any intention of getting it as these always seems to go for silly money but the seller made me an offer that I couldn't refuse!

[@TheCORC964]

@@FrontSideBus oh yeah I saw that one, I was watching it I think but never got an offer

[@Darieee]

awesome ❤

[@stphinkle]

What were these lamps used back in the day? Street lights? Projectors? Theaters? Gymnasiums? Hospitals? Libraries? Kitchens?

[@FrontSideBus]

Streetlighting. Colour rendering was far too poor for anything else. Mercury vapour only really made inroads into interior lighting when they started having a colour correcting phosphor layer on the outer envelope.

[@Ragnar8504]

I believe projectors were strictly arc lamp only until fairly recently, like late 1980s. I used to know someone who trained as a projectionist in the early 90s and said arc lamps were still quite common at that time.

[@qba125]

Beautiful

[@AG-zo3xb]

Why Osram conceived a Mercury lamps in tube shape with a transparent glass without phosphor powder ? Unlike HQL lamps

[@FrontSideBus]

Probably because back then, there was no phosphors available that could withstand the heat.

[@Fluorescentlamplover]

I love the ballast sound. And also is there a coated version for this lamp?

[@FrontSideBus]

They did make one called an MAF/V which had a really large isothermal shaped outer envelope and a thin phosphor layer but they are rarer than the proverbial rocking horse dropping! The phosphors they were using at the time wasn't very good.

[@chaimilch6008]

Is it true? Those lamps never burn out, they just loose strength?

[@FrontSideBus]

The later high pressure quartz MB lamps are quite robust but do suffer from quite significant lumen depreciation as they age. The lifespan of these MA lamps was never published but I don't think it would be more than a few thousand hours.

[@steve-h7z]

Could you try getting a cadmium lamp?

[@FrontSideBus]

Spectral lamps is something I've tried to steer clear of because if I get one or two... it would make me want them all! 😂

[@RodgerMudd]

Thorium pellet! Radioactive

[@FrontSideBus]

It's an Alpha emitter IIRC, so you're ok unless you eat it 😂 Modern lamp no longer use it and you can tell the ones that don't as they usually have a small UV glow bottle in them.

[@chaimilch6008]

Really? Thought you messed it up with tungsten (W=wolfram)

[@VariacManiac]

That's a badass lamp. Too bad that sort of technology is going away.

[@CableWrestler]

How's your eyes feeling today after the UV exposure?

[@FrontSideBus]

Perfectly fine. Since the arc tube is made from hard glass and not quartz, combined with the glass of the outer envelope meant that I bet there was bugger all UVC output tbh.

[@darylcheshire1618]

is it a UV lamp?

[@FrontSideBus]

No.

[@diegoalfadelpinotasso2972]

The metal halide ancestor

[@Sparky-ww5re]

Yep sure was. For those who don't know, the reason a 400 watt metal halide looks nearly identical to a 400 watt clear mercury vapor, is because the metal halide was introduced in around 1962, as a more efficient, higher quality light source to be used in applications formerly lit with mercury vapor. In fact a 400 watt probe start metal halide lamp will start and operate on a 400 watt mercury vapor ballast as they have almost identical electrical characteristics, with one slight difference. Metal halide requires a slightly higher open circuit voltage than the same wattage mercury vapor, so the lamp will start and run when new, but will begin to cycle and have trouble starting long before the actual EOL, if run on a mercury vapor ballast, but mercury vapor lamps can be run on a probe start metal halide ballast of matching wattage without any restrictions.

[@pypes84]

I have need of lamp nerd technical knowledge if you wouldn't mind me asking a technical question.

[@FrontSideBus]

Ask away, but I can't guarantee an answer though lol.

[@pypes84]

Thanks mate. We've got a rather long in the tooth UV printer (FB500) that uses discharge lamps to cure the print. Spares are getting really expensive for it and now the lamps are ~£150 each (needs 2 ever 500 hours or so.) They're R7S style. No one will tell you the wattage on the replacement lamps other than that they are compatible, nothing written on the bulbs themselves and getting to the ballasts involves more disassembly than I'm inclined to undertake. RS sells an iron doped metal halide (same spectrum, I've checked the graphs) R7S that's nominally 1mm shorter (104 vs 105mm) rated for 460W, these are £30 / ea. Are these likely to be the same bulbs, and if not what are the implications of under / over driving them if the wattage is out? @@FrontSideBus

[@davidfalconer8913]

Similar 400 Watt lamps are indeed produced today ( in quantity ! ) by the Iwasaki electric company ( EYE ) of Japan ... these have a bulbous violet Woods glass outer , producing HUGE amounts of UVA ( blacklight ) they have the standard E40 base like yours ( and I have one ! ) removing the outer is VERY dangerous due to LOTS of UVC ! ! ........ DAVE™🛑

[@FrontSideBus]

Yeah, I have one of those Eye H400BL's. They certainly kick out some serious UV! Speaking of UV, I've got quite an interesting UV lamp that I will film shortly!

[@MadScientist267]

​@@FrontSideBusHow much is this thing kicking out at temp you think?

[@elemar5]

Dampening means to make wet, damping is the word.

[@FrontSideBus]

Fuck off is also another ;)

[@bruceevans1133]

FIRED ONE UP IN A BEDSIT HIGH PREHURE WITH THE ENERGISER AND EVERYTHING IT SEI THE WALLPAPER ON FIRE WE SAT THERE WITH SUN GLASSES ON HOW FUNNY IS THAT?

[@emanueleimperato7558]

UV ray

[@mr.lithium2713]

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