408: Race, Riots, & Rethinking the Gospel with Matthew Bates

[@amandakay6330]

I just discovered this show in the past week and have already watched three episodes. I really don't know that I have the words to express the feelings I'm having in discovering that there are actually other people, other believers specifically, that are like-minded with me. Everyone around me, in both my family and my church swing to one extreme or the other to the point where, at this moment in time, I feel like shutting myself away from the world because I can't deal with the tension. To hear people who have a high view of scripture, unclouded by political affiliation, willing to discuss hard issues in light of biblical truth in a calm and rational manner is a breath of fresh air. Thank you, and keep up the great work!

[@pat7679]

Very well said.

[@natalieshafer3839]

Hi Amanda...SAME for me! It's Jan 24th.'21 I just discovered this channel a wk-ish ago, I've watched at least one show every day. I was actually ?ing the maturity of my relationship w/Christ. Do I have the right Jesus? Am I one who is deceived & not know it? For YEARS I was a member of a 200ish ppl, fundamental, conservative, family oriented church I really loved. Anyway, the pastor/deacons had hardly mentioned politics at all, til fall 2016. Then SHARPLY, after Nov 5th, suddenly there were a lot of reminders that we are to prayer for our Pres. Lots of sermons that involved Cyrus & how God used him. Closing prayer was, e.g: "Thank you for a President who has the GUTS to....." (Verbatim quote). I'm definitely not a prosperity-preacher type Christian either. Being a conservative, fundamental, bible-based, Christian who is NOT a fan of Trump/Trumpism AT ALL... I was SO alone in my world. It's very very isolating. The first episodes of the Holy Post....I kept "rewinding". I thot "did I HEAR that right? True Christians who see things as I do? Can this beee? It would be PERFECT if I knew a few I could go have coffee with, but even if only thru my phone...I'll take it! I am SO SO grateful to learn...after all these years of being SO isolated...not fitting in ANYWHERE, chewing my lips off to keep from speaking, etc., WHAT a RELIEF! I also praise God for the experience bc I now have fuller empathy for , say, those kids back in high school that were ignored or even bullied. PS: I see ALOT of simbilar testimony on every Holy Post episode. There are MANY of "US".

[@BubbaReece]

@Amanda I can’t like your post enough. Words can’t describe how anxious I am being a church staff member who is nearing graduation from seminary, who always feels like I disagree with everyone. I’ve had legitimate mental breakdowns with my wife and closest friends asking if I’m the one who just has a pride issue or some spirit of skepticism that just always makes me disagree with the Christians around me. Through 2020...BLM...Trumpism...anti-mask ideology...and the fact that everyone I worked with and went to church with were so vehemently republican primarily and Christian secondarily, I really felt out of place. But I absolutely could not agree with a lot of the ideologies in the seemingly opposite “Progressive Christianity” movement either. After watching a video that essentially explained to me that I’m a multiracial neo-evangelical in a white evangelical (fundamentalist) church, everything began to make more sense. Thank you Phil for using your platform to affirm our convictions for both scriptural inerrancy AND cultural relevance. After consuming quite a bit of your content, I’m starting to feel sane again.

[@pat7679]

I love this show. One of the few middle-of-the-road safe spaces for black Christians.. I appreciate whites that stand with us. Sky's intensity might be a little counterproductive to our issues but I understand where it comes from.

[@os2958]

I'm black and mostly agree with your point. Instead of a "safe space" this is one of the few Christian shows that are truly inclusive of racial issues. I actually found Sky's comments very helpful. He is the only panelist that actually experienced direct racial discrimination. His question about why didn't you pay attention to this problem earlier is relevant to understanding white behavior. Because even today, only a few months later, they are not paying attention to the problem. Christian asked what can whites do? Plenty and books have been written. One book "How to be an Anti-racist" specifically addresses this issue. You can for example simply vote or and support antiracist policy. You can vote for a President who is not racist.

[@jacquidavis4755]

I became aware of your podcast after Ruslan shared your excellent explanation of what an Evangelical is. I subscribed then and there. Then I watched podcasts on Race. I commend you for listening, researching and having guests who know what they are talking about because they live it. Much respect to you and the panel. BTW, I am an African-American woman. I wonder if I am the only one who hears The Bunny Song sometimes when I see our soon to be former president.

[@cukewinx2273]

Congratulations Christan!!!! Man you guys are so inspirational. We love you guys! Also I hope that you and Mr nawrocki are doing well

[@NoelII]

"This is my new favorite Black person and he really gets it. - This is a thing.

[@markjeffery4663]

Come to Europe. For centuries we have been learning to appreciate our differences. So much so we are relaxed enough to laugh at each other - and ourselves.

[@natalieshafer3839]

Agreed. I'm in the far NW, in a med sized suburby city. To learn what's still going on outside my bubble...smh...my heart is grieved & shocked.

[@gospitsgofox2155]

A very thoughtful discussion about a very difficult topic. Poor Jason, though, was ignored the whole podcast by Phil.

[@lrf8230]

Thanks for your honesty and truth. God created all races equally

[@djchuang]

Thanks for starting the conversations around this very complicated topic about race and Gospel. I do sincerely hope that this is just the beginning of a series for the Holy Post and that future conversations will include perspectives from Asians and Blacks, both of whom would have very different life experiences, especially in recent times, not to mention in history past also. (sorry, I haven't caught up on all the epsiodes, so if you did include these other perspectives already, forgive me to mentioning this..)

[@dave-giveusfree-evans1068]

@ Lets take a honest, clear-eyed look at history.

[@dave-giveusfree-evans1068]

They are not starting this conversation...they, as you , are joining.

[@Concetta20]

Ah, each time I hear Phil I hear Bob the Tomato. 😊

[@natalieshafer3839]

Ikr...I can't separate. And he really is so childlike...I love it. Big diff between childISH & childLIKE. And in contract, Skye is so very serious & logical. Christian...the quintessential MOM.

[@onpartybusiness8]

It's incredible how much the production quality has changed.

[@Concetta20]

My parents lived in naturally integrated PG County and Montgomery County, MD and didn’t see as much rascism in the 60s until the race riots in DC. Growing up in DC area I’ve always been in a diverse community. My niece and nephew are “mixed race”. I’m trying to be understanding and listen first to others’ experiences instead of it being about all about me. But I will mention I experienced prejudice as a white person while I was teaching a Bible study to all “black” students was greeted with a smirk and “hey, whitey.”

[@rc06109]

While there is certainly a need to talk about racial disparates and other issues we’re passionate about, most of us don’t get to do that at work like Kaepernick tried to. Far worse than that, Kaepernick called rioters freedom fighters. Property is not anywhere near as valuable of human life, but that doesn’t mean rioting is acceptable or justified. In Kaepernick’s mind, and many supports of BLM, peaceful protesting didn’t work, so theft and destruction is the next step. What if that doesn’t work either? Kaepernick’s method is totally different than the Bible. God says vengeance is his. Kaepernick says no justice, no peace. What Skye said about his childhood and young adulthood is very powerful. Its a shame he also defends a man who’s methods are completely different than what scripture says.

[@1993greeksoldier]

Hey I don't know if you have come back to look at those protests but they have been overwhelming peaceful despite what the news has been saying

[@stbrown08]

Just listened to this podcast. Thank you so much for your podcast.

[@lindadodson1586]

Listening to this a little late. I have several Christian friends who trot out pictures and stories on FB of black people doing good things and it strikes me as very patronizing. Or maybe it's an attempt to provide balance for all the posts they've shared about how awful George Floyd was. A local pastor posted just last week a story about a young black man who saved a young girl from an abduction attempt. This happened in 2013--seven years ago! Plus the young man in question is now in prison for armed robbery and was just denied parole for the second time. It's like--is this the best you can do to show how un-prejudiced you are, sharing a seven-year-old story that did not have a happy ending?

[@lovemychacha]

I love this! This is the full gospel.

[@skillz9267]

I like that Phil offers concrete solutions instead of wishful thinking. In terms of redirecting police funding, what solutions have been concretely proven to reduce neighborhood violence?

[@BrianReplies]

If 100% of the people living in a neighborhood commit to never stealing or engaging in criminal and violent behavior…that usually does the trick.

[@donalddodson7365]

How can anyone who can read and think not recognize the scarlet stain of sinful slavery throughout our 'Merican culture? Yes it is complicated: to whom or what is our personal loyalty supposed to be focused and centered upon? A flag? A political rhetoric? A national or racial identity? NO! Matthew 22:34-40.

[@dreamxpressed]

What to do? 1. Join the NAACP. Start a chapter branch in your church. 2. Read. There are several links out there on books you can read. I recommend starting with seeing I Am Not Your Negro documentary movie 3. Engage with other BIPOC Churches and on individual levels. 4. Take the Harvard Implicit Association Test. Have your church take it and then have conversations about the results. implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html 5. Look into Jane Elliot's janeelliott.com workshops and learning materials. She has loads of books listed and action steps. 6. Invite other speakers on your program and to your church. Your local NAACP chapter, Killer Mic, Jane Elliot, Kirk Franklin could talk about his issues with discrimination in gospel music, Bishop TD Jakes.... 7. I strongly believe there needs to be "healing therapy" sessions that help people to go within to those unconscious/subconscious bias thoughts. Bring them up to the conscious mind, acknowledge what they are and heal them. Basically a type of desensitization for the cultural bias that has been ingrained in all of us. 8. VOTE. You've got to vote for politicians who will do the work. City, County, State and Federal. #VoteQuadrant = Judge, Mayor, District Attorney & Police Commissioner.

[@willfull1604]

WRT the "rethinking the gospel" segment: I'm no theologian - but Jesus Christ is Lord, King and God regardless of any of his actions on this earth; birth, miracles, death. The Gospel IS that we do not have to die for our sins. The Gospel IS that Jesus has taken the punishment for us so that we do not have to spend eternity apart from Him. We are sinners, standing before a judge guilty and condemned. Jesus stands before the judge and says "I'll take his punishment". To say that Mark 1:14-15 cannot be the Gospel of salvation through Jesus' death and resurrection puts limits on God. God is beyond time. He has already won. At the time Jesus spoke the words in Mark 1. "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand, repent and believe the gospel" the gospel being that you do not die for your own sins, GOD has provided a Way...THE Way. It would not be good news to someone that X person won an election and became president, no matter how much they liked that person. That is just "information" at that point. The Good News is Good News because of what that person does for us or what we anticipate they will do for us.

[@braydeng716]

I think what Matthew Bates was saying is that the gospel is 'Jesus establishing his kingdom'. As a consequence of Jesus establishing his kingdom humans are offered salvation, but salvation is not the gospel in itself. The importance of this is to shift our view from something that revolves around us (personal salvation) to something that revolves around God (Christ's kingdom). To stop putting what we want ahead of what God wants.

[@willfull1604]

@@braydeng716 Jesus establishing his kingdom is only good news for the saved. For everyone else it means eternal damnation and separation from Him. We are called to share the good news. Tell an unsaved man that Christ has established his kingdom and will come again to judge the living and the dead. He'll either laugh or get angry. That is not good news to him. The good news is that we do not have to pay the penalty for our sins. The good news is that there is a way to avoid hell and the punishment we deserve. Salvation is the Gospel.

[@shirleycull8917]

I can witness with Phil on being told

[@mykilahsenwilliamsdorsey1495]

Conservative folks complain a lot about woke leftists , but it’s because they are asleep to these issues.

[@jacobgingerhoffman7816]

I love God's Church and I am trying to do right and live by the teachings of Christ. I find that America has a Jesus now who is a Sappy Wuss. He has stopped being a Man. I love people who are honest, upfront, and don't make excuses. You know what men are supposed to be like. Just do what you need to do. Don't care if someone pat's you on the back and takes personal responsibility for their actions and expects others to do the same. Bears the weight of providing for their family and helping others. Knows the world has problems but knows the answer is to do what is right regardless if the world agrees or not. Listen I don't know what all the answers but this endless talk about everyone's feelings (I know feelings are important and there is a place for them), but man this Jesus expects us to do right. If I followed Jesus only when I felt like it I would make a much worse discipline then I am. Jesus pandered to no one. He said follow me I am the way the truth and the life. He called out concrete sins, not microaggressions. He suffered for us all to give us life. He said real life is found in Me. You will suffer for my name sake the world will hate you. He commanded us to preach the Gospel and obey His commands. The Chief being love God and others as yourself. Pray for those who persecute you, if you are hit turn the other cheek, forgive everyone as I have forgiven you. Let's not just be hearers but doers. Yes, we need to be for the oppressed but the oppressed have no right to repay evil for evil. The oppressed along with those in power are all called to obedience and to sacrifice for each other. The cross puts us all on our knees before God. There is no one great but the lamb who was slain. The Holy One of God who is to be forever praised. I am privileged not because I am white it is because I am His. I feel bad that people aren't treated like they are made in His image. But His righteous requirements apply to all of us and we make no excuses and expect everyone to be obedient to the King. You don't excuse bad behavior and you call out sin because it destroys. You love like God and expect to be hated because you know if they listen and hear they can become true men. You don't pander you tell Men to honor women, take care of their families, work hard as unto the Lord, and to do it because life is about the responsibility given us to image Our God. To be a source of life to those around you. I say all this because the Gospel saves. It saved me and made me a new creation. While white I was a slave to sin, but now by His grace I am His son. You see the slave is free in Christ and the free man is a slave if he is not found in Him. I watched your videos and have tried to understand your take, but I just disagree because you have suddenly become "woke". I become woke when I become a new creation. This BLM movement is anti- freedom (which is anti-God). Its ideology is soft Marxism at best. It never tells people the true enemy is the sin of their own heart and that they must Master it ( of course by the power of the Holy Spirit). I know the history of this nation its positives and negatives and improvements can be made so let's do what the Bible says and call out all sins and not the one's that get the applause of man. It is very Pharisatical. Call all men to the obedience that comes by faith. Not popular but Godly. I stand for all people. I understand racism exists but to think this is the root cause of the issues in the black community or any other community is wrong. The crime of soft bigotry to say they can't rise above is terrible. Men will be evil because they need Jesus.

[@jmanwarren]

Can I ask who is the guy in the upper right corner? I just found you and have watched 3 episodes (loved them by the way, THANK YOU for such honest and open conversations that no one else seems to be having in my circles) but this guy in the upper right is just... there. He nods and smiles and I'm dieing to know what he thinks. LOL Again, you may have introduced him sometime and explained his silent presence, but I'm new here so I had to ask.

[@cristalamor3116]

Phil Vischer you will not tell me that I can’t get ahead because of systematic racism! I would hope that you open your eyes.

[@duckymomo7935]

Oh since when were podcasts up or started again

[@shawndyer7860]

Why isn't any Black people included in this discussion?

[@patrickc3419]

Voddie Baucham, Conrad Mbewe, Darrell Harrison, & Virgil Walker can run circles around these 4 individuals combined.

[@LifeandLifeMoreAbundantly]

no remarks on your 'race in america' video?

[@Joshlama]

That video was recorded after this conversation. Either the next episode or the one after will most likely have a debrief of the reaction to that video. The video is a summary of a Holy Post podcast episode called Race in America (check out the website) and is still very important to listen to regardless of your views on social justice.

[@LifeandLifeMoreAbundantly]

Joshlama -okay. But why are the remarks off on that video?

[@FedExMeYourDrugs]

Abundant Life any time they turn comments off, they save themselves from the cognitive dissonance they experience when they have to read facts that run contrary to their narrative.

[@braydeng716]

​@@LifeandLifeMoreAbundantly Phil has said in a more recent video he was not ready to engage in the unproductive dialogue that exists within the youtube community, and as a result never turned them on. He has left comments on, on facebook and has been engaging people regularly over there.

[@LifeandLifeMoreAbundantly]

This is why? kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWnUdpaMpqeFfLs

[@kd9633]

Introduce the poor guy in striped shirt!

[@matthewaaron5714]

I hear you, Skye. Wow. All lives matters? What is Christian talking about with her "all lives matter" rhetoric? Can you explain to me, Phil, what was her point? I hear southern women and men say this crap often. I feel her "racial sensitivity" is disingenuous and purely a facade. A lame facade at that. You know here better than I ever want to. What is her point, please? I can't hear the message because of my interpretation of the messenger.

[@patrickc3419]

All lives do matter. To say otherwise is unbiblical, woke virtue signaling.

[@BrianReplies]

When I hear it being discussed that special job positions are going to be made for just black people…I am thinking that maybe it would be best not to broadcast that on social media. I may be wrong…but I’m pretty sure that choosing to hire based only on race and excluding other races is illegal and I think we all know that some angry person would make a report to the authorities to harm the person/business that tried to make a difference in that particular way. People can be vindictive.

[@natalieshafer3839]

35:30. Phil is actually minimizing what I've heard other Christian/Pastor- hosted YT shows say about Phil. Its BEYOND ridiculous. Besides, even if they were right & Bob the Tomatoe wants to eat babies & take away your right to speak, the way that person is going about addressing/confronting Phil in the exact opposite way the Bible teaches.

[@josephbrown1614]

I had to come here because I can't comment on the "race" video. Phil is an "unbiblical" creationist. He does not believe the first 11 chapters of the Bible. He has a "special interpretation" of those chapters. Since he perverts/ignores Scripture here, it's not surprising he does other places as well. Most of that video was one big excuse to sin! According to Phil, because blacks are bound by poverty, their sin should be excused. He essentially said, " because blacks are poor, they must sin: and since that poverty was imposed upon them, their sin is excused." Not Biblical, my friend.

[@lrf8230]

Untrue

[@josephbrown1614]

In what way?

[@karmartdave]

Marxist then?

[@karmartdave]

These seemingly intelligent people being SO SURE AND YET SO WRONG...Makes me very sad indeed. Pray for the GREAT TRADITIONAL USA!

[@jnaiwalker9245]

What are they wrong about?

[@jgunn03]

@@jnaiwalker9245 I'm reading code words: "Traditional USA". Hmm, I wonder what he means by that?

[@stargate2395]

So really, who is the guy with the non-speaking part? He doesn't even get an intro.

[@MalachiSpring-s1t]

Lewis Michelle Rodriguez Melissa Thompson Scott

[@natalieshafer3839]

I bet the ppl who oppose BLM would be singing a very diff tune if B stood for "Blue-eyed-ppl".

[@patrickc3419]

BLM, like Antifa, the Black Hebrew Israelites, and Jane’s Revenge, is a Neo Marxist, domestic terrorist organization which is anti white, anti capitalist, anti police, and pro sodomite.

[@andyarellanoChannel]

The disconnect is Skye has no idea what he is talking about. You make it so complicated Skye and that is the beginning of your error. Look at it from the most simple basis, when we follow God we prosper and even when we don't prosper materially we are content mentally and spiritually. Concepts like work, respect, love, caring all flourish from following the Lord. What you are saying is that the reason one community has failed to flourish is because of systemic racism and bias against them, which is simply not true. From the beginning of time you will find people in every circumstance who have prospered not because society passed a law to give them money, but because they remained true to the Lord by working hard, caring for their families, and staying committed to slowly building themselves out of poverty. You had one thing right Skye and that was that this will take human relations to change. You are beginning to realize that we will not lift up all whites, blacks, asians or latinos in any society. Some have simply rejected the Word and will wallow in those decisions. Still, we have to understand that there are those in every location that are in poverty and turmoil, but want to get out. There are those that reject drugs, promiscuous living, violence and laziness, but they are trapped. There are some that see the value in God's Word even if they have never fully spoken these words, these are the ones that show the character MLK so clearly wanted us to focus on as people. We as the Church need to commit to finding them, lifting them, setting them on their spiritual journey and continuing to support them with Biblical counsel. But to think you will fix anything with money is a foolish endeavor Skye.

[@skillz9267]

Defund the police means abolish the police. You can agree or disagree, but just because you can't swallow it, don't patronize by watering it down