442: Christian Nationalism & the Good Life with Derwin Gray

[@Kelga80]

"I don't want to sacrifice Generation Z for those who want to stay in Egypt." Wow! That's a powerful statement! I can also say that, if you're making both Democrats and Republicans mad, you're probably on the right path. We need to be following God, not political leaders.

[@yvetteroberson1707]

Thank you all for having these conversations. I love all of you. Good job!!

[@calvinbrown8344]

I thank God for this show here because you are have taught me so much. Please never stop people need to know this.

[@versemind3918]

I really love all of you guys and how your discussions are filled with humor, love, logic, and truth!

[@coenraadbrand612]

Thank you for your faithfulness and insightful discussions. I have been kicked out of my Bible Study for speaking about my concerns concerning Christian Nationalism and how Christians can empathetically respond to the BLM movement. It has been a painful and isolating experience loosing friends and my church circle. Your talks have comforted me and I appreciate you talking about these difficult issues that we as followers of Christ need to wrestle with.

[@willielee5253]

@Coenread Brand, Jesus gives six accounts on HATE, Matthew 10:22, I would hope that encourage you the most. If you follow Christ Jesus you are sure to lose here but He assures us we will gain there. God bless you on your journey!!!

[@willielee5253]

@Coenraad Brand, I just run across Derwin Gray @Weekends at HPC: Four ways to become a healing people. He relates to your situation more so in being a healing person. God bless!!!

[@rosasnapp9684]

This was like a breath of fresh air. Thank you! ❤

[@danieljarchow3980]

Great stuff! I appreciate your continued discussion on Christian Nationalism. This is a huge issue in our churches that we must address more directly. Derwin Gray was great! He explains himself in such winsome ways.

[@iloveprivacy8167]

About that spinach, and the possibility of planting it so you'd know if there were mines in that field... Wouldn't you want to know that BEFORE sending someone out to plant it?

[@johnccisd5759]

Air seed drops. Not that it would some practical, widely used thing. Mostly an exercise in genetic shenanigans.

[@Superwoodputtie]

Hey a book yall should checkout is: One Nation Under God: How Corporate America Invented Christian America by Kevin M. Kruse He goes into how "in God we trust" and "America as a Christian Nation" were developed as a reaction to the new deal by businessmen. Amazing read. Best of luck. The show is great.

[@magictoast15]

They actually talked about that book on the show a few years ago! I’m reading it right now, and it’s great.

[@Godsleadingladi]

I'll add it to my cart now!! Thanks!

[@israelolorundare6140]

Suggestion: It would really help / be good if you provide the social media handle of the guest you have on so that we can go follow them or listen to more their conversations if we like what they're saying. Just a thought

[@microharman]

I think that Christian Nationalism just needs to travel more isn't quite right. I have no doubt people like Franklin Graham and many of these churches have been on "summer mission trips" and have seen quite a bit of the world.

[@Sanyi057]

I can tell you that a lot of missionaries who come to South Africa do not always go to poor areas. A lot of times they are invited to affluent areas. Even if they went to townships/ghettos/villages; the fact of the matter is, too often they don't stay long enough to experience the life of the indigenous peoples. They will normally preach for an hour and then stay for 1 more hour; then drive back to more affluent areas.

[@microharman]

@@Sanyi057 but worse they leave with the impression they know what they are talking about.

[@mikelnu8224]

@Skye & affection. The Archbishop of Canterbury visited Pope John Paul II and lamented that they had effected so little reconciliation between the churches. The pope responded that affect comes before effect.

[@gradearawk]

After Jesus, Derwin Gray is my hero.

[@LucasAllen]

We'd welcome you in Charlotte at Transformation Church any time.

[@gradearawk]

@@LucasAllen thanks for the invite! Next time I’m in Charlotte 💯

[@GospelMusicians]

This was sos good!

[@Inhumantics]

Christian, I think you are spot-on in thinking that we should challenge people to think differently about their current beliefs, and let them come to their own conclusions. The phrase you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink Rings true here. When people feel like they are coming to their own conclusions, they feel more in control and I would think they are more likely to take in new beliefs. I also think that guy is right call Mom in that we need to build relationships with people in order to reach them, the book he is talking about I have not read, however, I have also heard that establishing a close relationship with someone is one way for them to start investigating your views when they are very different from their own. Sometime, perhaps that can lead to some self-reflection when they see that you seem to be a genuine and good. And maybe, this is why we see Jesus hanging out with people in the gospel that others would otherwise not want to be around, such as tax collectors and prostitutes. Also, I don't think that only having people around you who disagree with you is a good idea necessarily. I think that would be toxic for us spiritually. However, I do think that focusing on a few people that disagree with us and building a relationship with them couldn't hurt. Our face is partially built on the relationships and the connections that we can make to other people. Balance out your own spiritual wellness with your message.

[@TheSierriacoates]

this is such a good conversation I don't know what to do. it should be a source of the American experience, it should be taught in a class I never took.

[@Angel4Prayer]

Our family loves your podcast. SO THANKFUL FOR YOUR MINISTRY. I'm sharing your Abortion video with friends - two of them posted and shared it on their Facebook page - HALLELUJAH, may Christians grow in their understand of God's Word and will. GOD BLESS YOU AND YOURS.

[@hughwanzakaffi7348]

Very challenging discussion in the podcast. Good stuff!

[@apolloniapythia9141]

In middle Europe for centuries generations grew up with the motto "Für Gott, Kaiser und Vaterland!" tought by church and state.

[@claudehaynes6419]

Interesting to compare the ministry of Billy Graham preaching conversion and repentance, and his son preaching adherence to Republican policy. Perhaps our comfort dates to Constantine. Christians stopped being burned at the stake which enabled us to then burn those whom we disagree with.

[@shuteyeaka135]

I was listening to a radio program a while ago about de-radicalising extremist and one thing that stood out for me "You can't logical talk them out of their radicalisation, because logic didn't make the radical". (Or something along those lines). Also side note there's a book by Sam Chan called "How to talk about Jesus without being that guy", it's maybe not something you can totally agree with but I found it a interesting way of approaching modern day evangelicalism that I think is at least worth considering.

[@Magnulus76]

I think it was Jonathan Swift who said that? You can't reason somebody out of something they weren't reasoned into in the first place. Or something along those lines. Wise words, indeed.

[@destinybailey5537]

I love them!!

[@macgyverswissarmykni]

This is the highlight of my week.

[@saraholiver6597]

Phil, I am so thankful for your podcasts and intelligent, and lighthearted, discourse around these difficult subjects. I have found so much hope in this space! I do have a question, I have several family members who are defensive and argumentative around these topics and who are asking me to “define” myself. Are you liberal or conservative? Democrat or Republican? And they are angry that I don’t have an answer. I am a (neo) evangelical who would be independent or perhaps progressive but I don’t have an answer for them. I’ve been so curious what you would call yourself? A progressive Christian? If you don’t have a “label” either that’s fine because I don’t really want to give myself one besides being a follower of Jesus but I’m curious.

[@richardoliver3263]

@@seraphina77 I heard the term from one of Phil's videos "What is an Evangelical". So interesting!

[@willielee5253]

@Sarah Oliver, At around age 25 I was considered a liberal conservative, being apolitical at that time nor politically astute, but now at 74 and a little more aware I would say he was right. Biblical righteousness leans to the conservative, but mercy, grace and compassion is the liberal side. Being independent allows you to sweat out the difference, or at least be more introspective for the benefit of others rather than being selfish or group centered. Being comfortable is good but being God centered may require you living with a pebble embedded somewhere in your slippers. God bless you on your journey!!!

[@willielee5253]

@Sarah Oliver, I just run across Derwin Gray, @Weekends at HPC: Four ways to become a healing people. He speaks to your post on this site God bless!!!

[@marcoslipic945]

40:30 It sounds like what Christian is talking about is street epistemology. Which is really popular among atheists but I believe it can also be an effective tool for talking with Christian nationalists. Making the Christian nationalist feel comfortable talking with you, identifying a Christian nationalist claim, and examining with them the reasons they hold that belief can be really productive. In my own experience, people really to care, when they don't feel threatened, if their reasoning is truly sound, and if their belief are actual true. I think she's right. The righteous mind as Skye says, does indeed describe the method of how people often change their minds. But the best way is when people, out of a desire for truth and only when they feel safe to do so, examine the evidence and their reasoning, and courageously change their minds. Anyways great podcast! I really enjoyed it!

[@micaiahkuhl6973]

Dear Phil, Skye and Christian, I'm a long time listener of the show and really love the content you guys put out. Between Skye's insights, Phil's comedic timing, and Christian's down to earth nature, the three of you really create the perfect podcast team. But, and this is a big but, I have to be honest and say I'm getting a bit burnt out on politics. Mostly just politics in general but if I'm being candid I'm getting a bit burnt out on your commentaries on politics recently. It's not that it isn't important or that it doesn't need coverage, Christian nationalism is becoming this generation's defining problem for the American church for sure. My concern is that this much dialogue intended in a healthy way revolving around one subject for too long isn't healthy for listeners or for you three. Go back through your episodes for the past year or so (heck maybe even further) and count how many episodes weren't politically focused compared to how many were. Yes, this conversation is important and you guys have been doing a great job covering it, but it's starting to feel like there are other subjects that are being neglected because politics is too important to talk about them (which it might be but won't necessarily be). Covid has created boundless changes in our society, the implications of which will be studied for decades. You can do an episode on how Covid is affecting missions internationally, or how the highest concentration of Christians is looking like it may be Southern Africa in the coming decades as opposed to the American church (actually you could probably get a few episodes out of the why and the what this means for that). You could do an episode on how youth ministry, in particular, is affected by our Post-Christianization and what that means for methods youth ministers need to be taught. There are other topics worth discussing that will probably need to be discussed in the coming decade(s) if the church is to not be blindsided completely by them and you three have a really powerful platform to leverage. It's not that what you're doing right now isn't good, it's that I know you can be doing something even better. Thanks, A Grateful and Concerned Fan

[@onegirlarmy4401]

Wanna feel super uncomfortable about American history? Read "The Problem of Slavery in Christian America." It would be a great topic for a podcast discussion too!

[@amigoslapasse819]

Who is the other guy you don't introduce? We know Phil, Sky and Christian.

[@BryanLeeDavidson]

Keep that butt shake'n. Keep the butt news twerk'n!

[@willielee5253]

@min.53:42, Genesis 12:3 - Matthew 25:31-46 Abraham's Seed Jesus the Christ goats sheep Matthew 6:20,21. (20. But lay up for yourselves treasures in Heaven....(21. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. May God shine upon you!!!

[@65fastback22]

I always refer Christian nationalists to Acts 17, and ask if they're so focused on Jesus that those around them are up in arms and in turmoil over it.

[@veggiet2009]

Part of me wishes that Christian was on her medication for the vegetable talk 🤣

[@Athanasius242]

22:50 - 25:05 The irony of the "Social Gospel"

[@deneggman]

These comments are ridiculous. You can be a Christian and a Nationalist Love of God and Love of Country

[@chriscaliff8752]

"Myth of a Christian Nation" by Greg Boyd.

[@stevenmerritt4960]

At 43 minutes I think Sky really gives the game away. He talks about getting people to want something to be true. I think it's important to realize that wanting something to be true doesn't matter and we need to demand evidence. That's how science works, religion instead is about believing what you want to be true.

[@djn5035]

Need to be willing to leave people in Egypt, amen. We should try to help move them along, but we can't stay in Egypt for sake of staying with them.

[@SandyKH]

Such a great show. Thank you. Can we please have a show on Tommy Tubberville and why David French endorsed him over the sanity and compassion of Doug Jones? I don't get it... at all. Also... pay attention to John MacArthur's sermons. Something bad has happened there.

[@delisa5353]

Did the chameleon have medical insurance and did they have to wait for authorization to get the scan? I Have Questions 😂😂😂😂😂😂?????

[@robbymyrick]

Christian: when you ask those thought provoking questions, then your friends and family default to, “well, that’s just how it is”, meaning - that’s just how we were raised, and I’m not going to consider another view. Lots of stubborn southerners in my tribe. 😕🙄

[@grammym8262]

Aliens don't go to New York, they come to Roswell NM 👽

[@colleenc6101]

Too much news of the butt??! Never! It's always a good laugh 😂

[@flameout77]

Christian is correct that all life forms communicate with some sort of input/output system.

[@lovemychacha]

God, open our eyes to see! We need to take a look back at Pauls's letters to the Galatians. We can not add to the gospel! The practice of adding things to the gospel needs to stop! Anything added, such as political ideology, bigotry, nationalism, conspiracy theories, all turn it into a false gospel! We have only one leader, one king, one lord; HIS NAME IS JESUS! Christian brothers and sisters, our mission is not Politics, and the great commission is not to make America great again. This world is not our eternal home, Donald Trump or anyone else who sits in the white house is not our savior! We have a savior; HIS NAME IS JESUS!

[@stevebelden1369]

Who's the silent, laughing, dude in the lower right corner who Phil doesn't introduce?!?

[@ashanmendis8091]

that is what the Pharisees wanted power to judge people

[@Angel4Prayer]

i'M LOST, WHAT'S "BUTT NEWS"?

[@SandyKH]

It's called "News of the Butt", it's certainly not serious, but has on very rare occasion been interesting. It's a special feature that only occurs when there is actually something to report on the subject.

[@JohnThomas-ut3go]

A shepherd who allows the sheep of the flock to roam where they will is a feeder of wolves. The shepherd is there to protect the flock and guide them to safe pastures.

[@thomburleson1602]

Ok... maybe you need to add someone outside of the white evangelical homogenous echo chamber to the podcast? A non-evangelical Christian? We do exist... although you dismiss us out of hand fairly quickly in your conversations.

[@nevbaker7642]

I hear where you are coming from. However it appears to me that those of you with some common sense have been steamrolled by the crazies and radicals. We need more of you speaking out for what you know to be right.

[@thomburleson1602]

Funny... I could say the same about Evangelicalism.

[@nevbaker7642]

Sorry Tom, i may have misunderstood your original post. Im with you. The evangalicals were who i was referring to.

[@os2958]

Sadly part of being comfortable for many people means having power over others. That goes away with equity. Also part of being comfortable is wealth. And wealth has declined for working people the last 40 years or so as we created a class of 1%ers. Republicans increased the wealth gap.

[@DefenderoftheCross]

Derwin Gray is not qualified to be a pastor. His lies about what happened in Charlottesville, and his bearing false witness against President Trump were disgraceful.

[@danielvernonlee6781]

This is great and all, but can we stop dancing around the topic we all want to hear your speak to? Namely, where’s my water Buffalo? Why don’t I have a water Buffalo?

[@TheCedpick]

Second, LOL!

[@Origen17]

"Christian Nationalism" is literally the idea that this country was built upon. Literally. That's not a bad thing.

[@timvanhaitsma9659]

Could you source that proposition?

[@Origen17]

@@timvanhaitsma9659 That you even ask the question is evidence of a tragically failed education system.

[@bwevemuzk]

*The black delegation frowns*

[@Origen17]

@@bwevemuzk Then that delegation lacks knowledge, because it has nothing to do with race. Christian Nationalists were behind abolition as well. They taught the African "diasporo" about Christ.

[@bwevemuzk]

@@Origen17 nice revisionist history there. Your so called Christian Nationalists didnt worship christ, they worshiped whitness and still do. A cursory reading of Acts shows that africa had the gospel millenia before your holy Christian nationalists.

[@oluwanifemiegbetayo2156]

First

[@Professorgutierrez]

Fourth