445: You Might Be a Christian Nationalist If... & Transgender Identities w/ Preston Sprinkle

[@countdiscalcula8185]

I am an atheist and I think you people are all right. Maybe if I met more Christians like you people I would have a different view

[@Echoes317]

Christians don't convert you, Jesus does. Meet Him and regardless of who you meet you will follow Him.

[@Evelyn-pl3we]

I remember hearing quote that said, "Don't let your frustration with Christianity ruin your relationship with Christ." I hope you encounter more individuals who display Christ love!

[@noahfletcher3019]

You shouldn't change your mind because of reasonable and nice Christians either. Change your mind because you're actually convinced of the truth or scripture.

[@kreyperez9842]

"A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit...you will know them by their fruit" the bible called out churches in the first century who operate in a way that is anti-Christ. Look for those who bear good fruit (affect the world positively) and make them your community, those people are living like Christ. I hope that through them you can come to know him

[@musicappreciate]

You’re on the right track

[@emilytaylor2623]

The thing about equating American Christians with OT Israel is that we completely skip over the parts about welcoming the stranger, caring for the poor and orphan, jubilee, corporate repentance and lament... It doesn't work if we leave all that out.

[@wijcik]

If your definition of a Christian depends upon how you vote and not whether or not you follow Christ, then you may be a Christian nationalist.

[@cliffekwon9516]

yeah... but a true Christian would never vote for a Republican

[@waynefeller8824]

@@cliffekwon9516 - You are wrong.

[@greglogan7706]

@@cliffekwon9516 This is a somewhat complex issue but certainly if the one running is filled with deceit and oppression for the purpose of secular power and control as well as filled with slander and hate mongering and fear mongering which in fact most republicans are at this point in time then certainly you make a great point. In the past there were some pretty cool republicans

[@wishweknew2800]

@@greglogan7706 How is somebody "filled" with oppression? Oh cable news told you so. And whom are you to decide what Trumps purposes were? This is the same crap Republicans do that all you leftistS complain about. STOP IT. This entire concept is a smear to get Christians not to vote Republican. If you don't think so tell me what popular preacher advocates for Christian Nationalism? John MacArthur? Nope. Doug Wilson? Nope. John Piper? Not a chance. Voddie Bacham? Nope. It's starting to sound like anyone who isn't up for perverting God's word with SJW bullcrap might be subject to being criticized, falsely, as a Christian Nationalist.

[@greglogan7706]

@@wishweknew2800 Your response simply is more "media hate-mongering" which is some kind of propaganda game you play - I suppose because it feeds your ego - or whatever nutty reason. Anybody can ferret reality with the least bit of understanding. I receive Trump and republi-con ems DAILY - they are filled with lies, deceit and slander - that any fool can see right through. When Trump talks - he simply is a self-serving narcissist that any fool can see right through. Your comment shows a bentness in your thinking and a darkness in your spirit.

[@andrewsteger9449]

If your local private Christian school's mascot is the Patriots, you might be a Christian Nationalist.

[@mpea1043]

What about the "Crusaders?"

[@zwcook]

Is that your local school?

[@SteveinSanFrancisco]

Even though the original Patriots really weren't that religious... 🙄

[@maryhamric]

Or your church is named "Patriot Church"...you might be a Christian Nationalist.

[@felixguerrero6062]

This is your brain on communism, folks

[@ryanthomasjones]

I'm trans. At first I was frustrated with the conversation with Preston. At one point I shouted at my phone, "I'M A PERSON, NOT PART OF A TRANSGENDER MOVEMENT!" And then Preston mentioned that the conversation up to that point was more skewed towards the theoretical than the book. That made me feel much better, like Preston might understand my dignity as a person after all. I wish there had been more discussion of trans issues in general. Like, it wasn't clear if Preston thinks the church should just accept trans people and it's all good. In that case, I'd like to hear how he sees that fitting into biblical theology. Or is he accepting of our personhood but not our decision to transition? In what sense does he think someone like me should be welcome in the church? He made the point of saying that we are welcome not in the sense to change us but just to participate. That's amazing, but like, what does that look like? Most Evangelicals are not going to be okay with me as is. I really appreciated what he said about trans people calling him to be more Christlike. Thank you for posting this episode. Overall I'm still processing how I feel about it. I'm glad you're addressing it head on.

[@maryhamric]

I wondered this as well. My son is trans and I was anxious to hear more detail as you were.

[@noahfletcher3019]

God loves you. You are a person before you are trans. I pray God leads you back to truth. I pray that God helps you to love yourself the way he originally made you.

[@StephenMatlock]

@@noahfletcher3019 What. The. Holy. Heck. It's like you don't listen to people. A trans person *is a person*. Period. End of story. "How God made them" is trans. Finding out who we are absent the strictures of custom and pressure is part of our freedom.

[@kimsteinke713]

@@noahfletcher3019 please stop go somewhere else please. 👍

[@kimsteinke713]

@@maryhamric I know this must be a stressful time I was born transgender and I've never had a sex change but then everything was different back then. But even at 12 years old I knew that I belong to that group but I knew I didn't want to sex change either I knew I was in a homophobic world and I knew that God made me that way but I never had the words so I stayed hidden. And was very painful and no one let me wear the clothes I wanted to wear in between but I have a boybrain in a girl body. And it's a real thing I love God I chase God but the extremism the homophobic that people see and children see this from a very small age I saw it even as young as 8 years old. And you're terrified and then if you have a family that tells you're going to hell and you just hear all this evil stuff so that's why these children run if they can get a sex change and cover up that that they want to hide that's one of the reasons and then other people have thought about it and they're willing to take those risks and those chances and they should know that you never going to look like a full man or a full woman. but that's their freedom when they get to the certain age but I do agree we're jumping into medical field too quick. But I knew that was going to happen you can't have one extreme like the last 40 50 years with Jerry Falwell and James Dobson and another extreme. If y'all would just learn to love the LGBT people all of them stop talking about I'm obsessively it's been in the news forever and ever and not in a good way and it creates a unhealthy spirit and half the people don't even know what's real until they get 40 45. I can't express the damage that's being done to the LGBT community because as a child I saw it I felt it and I heard it I wrote God all the time letters like he could hear me it's just sad but we need to realize there are people created different and I think God did it for this very same reason. You can't give this much power to one man one white man one black man one white woman you don't give all the power in the world and tell them they're God and they're made in the image of God and they're the main god overseer with the white man is acted like God my dad was born under Hitler and he beat me until he committed suicide at 17 I mean you've got the Holocaust you got so much damage and it's hyper authoritarian white masculinity on steroids and nobody wants to admit it or apologize it and the children are just watching. And now y'all finally started to wake up but it's been a long time and it hasn't been recent it's been recent maybe if you're Preston sprinkle but it has been recent for blacks are gays because we've been here all along suffering. Things are better now and they're going to get better and to all the parents with transgender children you just tell him the truth and say they can wait and and just love them and tell them the situation and speak the truth they'll be all right with the truth don't lie to him and don't act like you're ashamed of them they're not freaks the people that are homophobic are the freaks. The people that are homophobic don't have the compassion or the empathy and the love yet they're learning to love so maybe we're evolving. I don't have a problem with the evolution the creation story I always did but I've never had education past 12th grade but I could see God creating the world easily with the big bang and I could see us evolving from animals for over 300,000 years and if that's what archaeologist tells us well then it is. We must trust science. If you look at our closest relatives the LGBT in the animals was the social fabric you know I believe that In our effort to wipe away the LGBT that was the one group of people we needed we needed their love between the brothers and sisters of the family and all the churches done is try to destroy them and now that's why the family is broken we were the social cohesion where the mediators in between the sexes and God created that go look at the animals. And you must remember Paul was wriding under Constantine.? Think about it.

[@TheTyper]

Phil touching on the Contemporary Christian Music industry and its parallels with early radicals vs. the conservative thinkers pulls up memories of Rich Mullins, someone who worked in the same TIME as Michael W Smith and Amy Grant (and even made a song on Amy Grant's album), but couldn't have been further from their arenas. He seemed like a man out of his time, more in line with those early Christian rock musicians, giving himself the average working American salary from whatever his music profits were, and the rest were donated to charities. He identified with the poor more and more as he got "older" (Rich died in his early 40s to a tragic cart accident), choosing to make a home on the Native American reservation and spend the later years of his life teaching them music. In a book that functioned as a sort of biographical devotion revolving Rich's life, a manager of Rich's life recalls one time when Rich was on a mission overseas and really wanted to make sure he had a specific amount of money in his savings fund to donate. The manager mentioned that he Rich HAS MORE in there, but Rich wasn't really concerned about how much money he had in there, so much as 'can I give them this amount to this charity?' that's all that mattered to him, not how much he had heaped up, but how much he could give in that moment. And while Rich really TRULY believed in the Church of God as the Lord's final plan to bringing about salvation and change to the world, he certainly had his misgivings about religion itself and the direction it has taken Christianity in America. Rich's music and teachings took strong inspiration from Brennan Manning's Ragamuffin gospel, which was more about the personal struggles a person faces as Christian, and thus a lot of Christians took his music and struggles to heart. To this day he's one of the few Christian musicians I listen to mainly because of his unique instrumentation that stands out in that genre, and his capacity to be "honest" in his music. But I long for a Rich Mullins of our era to speak into the problem of Christian nationalism and how it is crippling churches from fulfilling God's plan.

[@StephenMatlock]

Appreciate this. I grew up during the Jesus Movement and had all the albums/cassettes. It felt fresh and new, and as Phil & others say, non-commercial. Then it became yet another manifestation of Jesus, Inc. It was really hard to see it happen. I still don't think it had to happen that way, and *perhaps* we should be willing to let something go rather than turn it into a for-profit business.

[@christopherburrell9630]

The difference is that Rich Mullins believe that nothing else could save this world from its suffering state other than Jesus.anu times he told people to stop looking to organizations, government, or institutions for answers. Called him jaded, but he had a strong disdain for human institutions and governments as having any real or legit answers. He loved by the golden rule and was radical as they come, but unlike this current lot christians leaders and musicians, he knew his bible, and it lead him to have absolutely zero faith in the institutions of mankind. He saw Jesus as the only answer, not man made religious and government institutions.

[@justsomethoughts8960]

I believe Preston when he says that he didn't mean to spend so much of the interview about his misgivings with trans kids, but there were many dangerous misconceptions presented in that segment. The summary of the Keira Bell case alone is a very disingenuous take on a situation that will make the lives of every trans kid in the UK immesurably harder.

[@buffaloherd]

Everything that I've heard or read from him is very compassionate, so I think I'd give him the benefit of the doubt

[@justsomethoughts8960]

@@buffaloherd The rest of the interview definitely showed that compassion- I don't want to imply he secretly hates trans people or anything. But misinformation repeated in good faith still needs to be called out, particularly when the consequences are so dire.

[@Netbug009]

You ever think about how Jesus was hated much more by pious followers of His own faith than people outside of that faith-based culture?

[@ruthdyer3700]

Yes! This! He was hated by the "religious" power holders of His culture

[@darlameeks]

I think about it all the time! Thanks for putting your finger on this!

[@Netbug009]

@Desire Of All Nations As do most Christians today. Rather, they teach the culture around Christianity instead of what Christ actually said.

[@felixguerrero6062]

Jesus' followers were all practicing Jews. Progressive "Christians" are more like Pharisees as all they do is slander faithful Christians based on their petty political ideology.

[@greglogan7706]

@@ruthdyer3700 The Billy Graham, Jrs, the Robert Jeffress', the Eric Metaxas', etc., ad nauseum

[@McKennaTalksGames]

I appreciate where Preston was going in asserting that the Church has a lot to learn from trans folks. It would be great if The Holy Post could take this to heart and, if/when next you discuss trans issues, bring someone who is trans on the show. Let them tell their stories for themselves. I look forward to seeing more conventions like this in the future. Keep up the good work.

[@hq4287]

Rachel Mann would be an ideal guest

[@StephenMatlock]

I love this idea. I *appreciate* the depth and reach of these conversations. And it's gentle and full of joy.

[@Latriise]

I appreciate how there's always thoughtful, nuanced conversation. And you do a great job of bringing on guests that make me think. Finding and subscribing to your KZbin channel was one of the better things that came out of 2020 for me.

[@RyanOlander]

"Why don't you just show them Jesus?" I literally applauded when I heard that Skye. Thank you! That should be the point of ministry and it such a relief to actually hear people proclaim that!

[@gabetalks9275]

The that that's actually refreshing when that's supposed to be the wood point of following Jesus is irritating and sad

[@maraweatherford7556]

I agree with Kaitlyn, the CCM video absolutely must be made.

[@darlameeks]

Preston Sprinkle, your guest today, has written about Christian non-violence in his book, "Fight". He makes a pretty good theological case, though he distinguishes between Christian pacifism and Christian non-violence. Christians are at war, but the spiritual kind, using spiritual weapons.

[@michaellapalme1198]

“It was not a Bible verse, it was from the Book of Mormon.” Watch all the eyebrows lift in unison.

[@hikersteph]

What does it say about me as a millennial that I discovered Keith Green's awesomeness by listening to my parents' old vinyls? hahaha

[@PUCCWestportMA]

After listening to your conversation, I am wondering if American Christian nationalism can be boiled down to one simple idea: America = Israel. When we accept this as an article of faith, America replaces the kingdom of God, Conquest (taking America back for God) replaces the Great Commission, 2 Chronicles 7:14 becomes the new Lord's Prayer and Donald Trump takes on the role of King David.

[@StephenMatlock]

I don't know if that's the basic element, but it sure is a significant part.

[@noybnoyb356]

In all my years of attending evangelical Christian schools K-12 in the Chicago suburbs, attending Judson University, and evangelical churches in the area, I would say 90%-99% of the Christian people I encountered held to American Christian nationalistic beliefs, which to me sounds like another name for replacement theology. Because of their beliefs, I noticed there were certain verses in the Bible that appeared to be off limits, such as Deuteronomy chapter 28, Deuteronomy 32:21-26, Romans 10:19, and Romans chapter 11 to name a few.

[@greglogan7706]

Noyb, What then do you make of such a severe amount of deception?

[@noybnoyb356]

@@greglogan7706 The deception is prophesied about by Jesus in Matthew 24:4-5, Mark 13:5-6, and Luke 21:8. In those verses, He warns that many people will come in His name saying He is the Christ but will deceive many. What most fail to realize is that Jesus is warning His followers about people who will claim to be Christians will bring the deception. Much of this deception comes from people relying on manmade interpretations to the Bible instead of letting the Bible speak for itself precept upon precept; line upon line; here a little and there a little as it states in Isaiah 28.

[@dwaynegrobinson4125]

Whoever wrote these Christian Nationalist Points is SPOT ON. Interestingly enough, most of us who are non Evangelical see Evangelicals exactly that way.

[@greglogan7706]

That is because they are not Christians - they are evangelicals

[@ThePoliticrat]

And so what we have learned applies to our lives today...

[@rickball3147]

“Worst 80’s Metal Band name ever!” Skye Jethani for the win!!!

[@BraveRhythm]

Make a video about the history of Christian music!

[@dkecskes2199]

If your church sends more care packages to (and financially supports) her own soldiers than to her own missionaries, you might be a Nationlist Christian.

[@christianpitman5185]

If your church sends more care packages to Ukraine than to Christian missionaries, you might be a Progressive Christian

[@bethprather9241]

Amy Grant was the first Contempory musician I knew and went to her concerts and it opened up a whole new exciting world of music and love of Jesus.. Micheal W Smith is awesome. They make $ sure.. so what as long as they are giving and reaching millions God is in control!

[@Justanotherconsumer]

There’s a real parallel between abandoning who we were to become who we were meant to be in Christianity. There’s a lot to be learned from that process of transition.

[@nrundell]

"It [anal swabs] really changes the drive-thru testing experience." Understatement of the year.

[@Butterfly-truth]

Don't forget John Michael Talbot who was in the Keith Green era and became a monk and gave his profits from his albums to his Hermitage community. Never getting into the fame and glory racket and made one of the most glorious albums called Troubadour of the King.

[@weston.weston]

Phil: Don't stop! Your introspective messaging speaks greatly to my non religious, non Christian, non believing heart. Don't let anyone convince you to quiet down or to become less comical, us heathens ❤ you.

[@Klixes]

Hey, you may want to check with Preston if you should change your word choice of "transgenderism". I'm definitely still learning but it sounds like this term can be offensive.

[@danieguenter4334]

Yes, this is definitely an off putting word for those of us in the community. The "ism" is defined as a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy. This is not the right word to use.

[@hq4287]

I agree, I ended up feeling a little less respect for the capacity to listen of the holy post team with the noun-ising of the word. the picture still has transgenderism, unfortunately maybe it's a glitch where it shows it before it was corrected. It seems to work when it's in a smaller thumbnail. Also I'd want to say that the set the words transgender identities is a perfect substitute for that term as a topic description.

[@PhilTomson]

Good history lesson on the counter-cultural Christian music scene of the 70s. Albums were given away. Communes!, etc. Larry Norman, Kieth Green, Randy Stonehill, Daniel Amos, The Trees (aquariumdrunkard.com/2020/07/06/trees-community-christ-tree-2/) etc. Then in the 80s & 90s it all became big business. I agree with Kaitlyn, Phil should make a video on this history. It was an interesting time and very different from current evangelical thinking.

[@TheGretsch6120]

I was raised in a small town between 66 & 84 before I got out of there. I was in the Baptist church and there were many members of the John Birch Society. I didn't know anything about what that was at that age and my family had no part in it, but I still remember thinking they sounded like "KKK lite" and a lot of what I'm hearing from Christian Nationalism sounds exactly like it's just a rebirth of the John Birch Society.

[@StephenMatlock]

It never went away. JBS just shape-shifted.

[@tandemingtroll]

If you are invited to post alphabetical praise of God and when you get to "p", the first word that comes to mind is "patriot", you might be a Christian Nationalist. Sadly, this is based on an actual FB post.

[@ThriftStoreBibles]

All around great episode, I especially appreciated the education on early Christian rock artists. Going to look up those artists!

[@anabaird3835]

Where I get stumped is: "What about hermaphrodite?" My pastor's answer was, "The parents usually make a decision about that pretty early in life" That doesn't answer my (?), infact, I now have even more (?'s). If THAT physical confusion can, (& DOES), legitimately happen, then why is it not feasible that a person could be mentally/emotionally & legitimately confused or on some level (neurological) the opposite of their genitalia? It seems like nowadays, alot of teens are pretending to be trans or questioning to get attn (annoying), but it seems there are a few genuinely confused teens/adults,too. Idk if it's just a coincidence, but I've never met, or known of, someone in the LGBTQ community who wasn't pretty severely traumatized in some way...usually sexually. Same with those who work in the sex industry, including being a stripper. My heart hurts for them & it makes me upset that there are ppl who get their kicks/entertainment from those in the sex industry. But Also, I feel like if they were willing & able to receive Christ Based therapy to resolve their deep trauma, that they would see that they are the gender assigned them by God (unless they're a hermaphrodite). 🤷

[@lovemychacha]

If you own a picture of Jesus wearing a MAGA hat, then you are not only a christian nationalist, you are also a blasphemer!!! I actually saw this recently and it was so offensive! It broke my heart that someone would dare think to do such a thing......blasphemy!!!

[@pressia07]

don't worry that wasn't the real jesus anyhow but i understand your anger

[@waynefeller8824]

I don't think it is blasphemy at all. Human beings have been painting Jesus in their own image for centuries: white Jesus, black Jesus, Asian Jesus, etc. I feel this stems from a need to make Jesus more relatable.

[@seemoreclearly2122]

Wow - first time hearing Preston Sprinkle - Really well thought out!

[@anthropomorph7]

"I gotta tell ya, Jesus expelling money changers has been thrown at me a surprising amount in the last six months." Mood. O_o I'm so glad I'm not alone.

[@DMWayne-ke7fl]

With good reason. We should drive out those who would defile the house of God.

[@greglogan7706]

@@DMWayne-ke7fl How do we decide who those are and how do we drive them out?

[@kathierezek3515]

That thing about the moneychangers...yeah. It gets tossed around a lot. I always ask how many times do you see Jesus demonstrating this type of behavior? Was it a pattern of his life or a standard of his teaching? And he was rebuking those who were supposed to be God's people. So...does that make you think differently?

[@SandyKH]

Mercy, if Sky ever heard Larry Norman's, "Right Here in America", he would know what Phil's point on the history of CCM has to do with Christian nationalism. Yes, I listened to them as a kid... However, I paid for every Kieth Green album I ever had...

[@Netbug009]

"is that Christian nationalist or just conservative?" I hate to break it to you, but from my experiences, I'm convinced there's not really a difference anymore.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

I’ve met conservatives who aren’t Christians, so it’s not a direct equivalence.

[@Netbug009]

@@Justanotherconsumer Fair, but they seem to be a dying breed. It's gotten very difficult to justify continuing to identify with the conservative party in the past few years without some sort of hatred to being at the root of it.

[@laurihuber3003]

Phil I have a new term you to consider for your wife....”the worried well” is what we refer to these patients in the clinic setting. :)

[@melody_shmelody]

I got called a liberal in a very derogatory way for commenting on a religious video defending a singer in the church service and saying that there might be other reasons besides her being a woman that she could not be heard as clearly as the male singer. It’s a long story. But it was pretty shocking and disappointing...

[@Cyrribrae]

Audio engineering is a pretty far left thing, so I'm not surprised.

[@StephenMatlock]

@@Cyrribrae DON'T REVEAL THE CONSPIRACY! :)

[@VictorDiGiovanni]

The last line of the description should read, "Also this week, a more accurate covid test is being used in China - however, there's a big but."

[@DanJerryBohorquez]

I have been trying to find the 2 episodes mentioned with more info. (380 & 298) I really enjoy your thought provoking podcasts. Thx!

[@StephenMatlock]

Yeah, me too.

[@TM3MT]

They might have been during the audio only period.. Both are on spotify

[@corybanter]

Enjoyed Phil's description of the history of Christian popular music. There were a few musicians in the "second wave" of Christian music, such as Steve Taylor, who definitely critiqued Christian culture fiercely. And of course, it almost destroyed his career...

[@corybanter]

I would also add Rich Mullins and Charlie Peacock to that short list.

[@wrolnick3]

"we've given up Good Friday for Easter Sunday" good point

[@sarawoods1450]

Thoughtful interview and yes as godliness doesn’t have a ‘double standard’ ! Better than first half when I too was covering my face as I listened.

[@corybanter]

This KJV verse may be the "liberty" verse you were talking about: "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." (Galatians 5:1)

[@Cyrribrae]

Couldn't find it with a quick Google search, but based on the first paragraph of the official About Liberty University page... : "Through those founding years, students and faculty were inspired to influence the moral and ethical course of America. Subsequently, the school’s name officially changed to Liberty Baptist College in 1976 and the colors were changed to red, white, and blue." Still calls Falwell Jr their president too..

[@zaphod2002]

I always think people have to be careful when they are comparing their actions to Jesus. He was perfect. He was all knowing. While we were sinners, He died for us. If your actions don't reflect love for all, you might be a Christian nationalist.

[@madcow9421]

Orthodoxy requires god only loves his sheep. So you’re in the heretical undertow, that is he most definitely does not love everyone

[@jsharp3165]

@@madcow9421 “For God so loved the world...” That’s everyone.

[@jsharp3165]

Yeah, any time someone excuses their obnoxious behavior with “Jesus flipped tables over,” I want to say, “Yeah but you ain’t Jesus, pal.”

[@jendragon42]

...West Virginia and Nashville are MidWest??? (Asks the Kansas girl)

[@justiceperhay8328]

Some people think anything between New York and California is the midwest..

[@jyerkes94]

False Gospel.... Social Gospel is me changing the world and “liberating” everyone from oppression. True Gospel is Christ changing me and changing my heart. Christ liberated me from the oppression of sin not “patriarchies”.

[@axeldaxelMVM]

Oh my goodness, there are so many "social gospel" passages in the Bible, there's not room here to list them all. If we do indeed allow Christ to change our hearts, then we will care about other people and what they're going through, just like God does. We will truly be the Body of Christ, doing the healing and liberating work that He did when He was here in the flesh. Read Luke 10:26-28, Galatians 5:13-15, and Romans 13:8-10, and if your interpretation of other passages conflicts with these, then sorry, your interpretation is wrong. As a quick example, did you know that 1 Corinthians 6:9 used to say "soft", not "effeminate"? All English translations said "soft" until the first Spanish Bible was written and it said "afeminados" so then all the English translations said "effeminate" after that. So when someone says that they prayed and fasted and tried conversion therapy, etc. etc. and it didn't work, I think we should believe them and show some empathy instead of judging and condemning.

[@jyerkes94]

@@axeldaxelMVM interesting thought and I appreciate your well thought out answer. I definitely agree that a regenerate heart will bring forth a changed life. The main issue that I see with the “social Gospel” is that it is intrinsically linked to progressivism which is not Biblical. We do not throw off the moral law of God, but heed it and love it. We don’t become legalistic, but we become conformed to Christ even as much as keeping His law, because we love Him. As for those verses you mention, I see your point. However, a “social Gospel” has to be read into that, eisegesis, we do love one another including our enemies, but it is with a holy love which God has. It is not a sin-affirming, but Christ-affirming, confessing of sin and pointing to Christ, love. Only he can save. My money, government, or social influence is worthless to God. That was a great example you brought up with 1 Corinthians, I didn’t know that. I can concede we have Americanized many verses. However, the Greek gives us an indication that this is not only “soft”, but also “a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness”. I am not advocating for “conversion therapy” even though I think it should be legal. I’m saying the first thing people need in their life is to believe the Gospel. The New Testament is clear. That does not mean become some “political activist”. I appreciate your thought out and reasoned response.

[@chadsampson5713]

Lots of talk about listening to science, zero talk about the differences between biological sex and gender, which is not particularly a new distinction is psychology.

[@bethprather9241]

😂😂😂 I love the first part and forgot , and I needed the laugh

[@seaweedseaside5905]

I am still amazed that in the US people feel the need to say white American, black American, native American, etc. Why not just American? Why is race so important even among people who oppose racism?

[@fndrr42]

Love the channel. Just an observation - seems to me that the really valid complaints you have addressed against Critical Race Theory would also apply to Christian Nationalism. Seems like there are 2 sides coming up with terms that nobody actually uses to label themselves.

[@StephenMatlock]

These are wildly different things. How do you see them as similar enough for such a comparison?

[@fndrr42]

@@StephenMatlock - seems like we have 2 groups completely terrified of a blanket term that they label the other camp. There are no doubt reasons to be concerned at the extremes but we use them as blanket reasons to put ourselves above any self reflection. Not saying they are equal at all but how they are used seems strikingly similar.

[@dkjay22]

If you believe Jesus is American

[@thefutureisnowoldman7653]

So Mormons

[@ThePoliticrat]

@@thefutureisnowoldman7653 don’t they believe Adam and Eve and the garden of Eden were located in Wisconsin or something?

[@dckmusic]

If you do follow up on Christian Music, be sure you really research Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith today. I think a lot of people would turn off of them now because I don't think they would fit into that Christian Nationalism/Trump group at all which seems counter-cultural to a lot of Christian thinking today.

[@tjingrassia2997]

Speaking of CCM, I'd love to hear you guys discuss "Preacher's Kid" by Semler.

[@magictoast15]

I'm reading Embodied right now and finding it very helpful!

[@NewFoundAndrew1]

1:04:45 - Guest says more men than women work in tech due to biological reasons. This is just silly.

[@Cyrribrae]

There could be some biological component that could be construed as having a material impact on different rates of interest or even ability.. But yes lol, it's still totally ridiculous.

[@mobabyhomeslice]

@@Cyrribrae pretty sure that's what he meant. But, he also didn't address how women are discouraged from entering certain fields because of sexism. I'm pretty sure he would agree that is also the case, but that really wasn't the main point of the discussion, so obviously some things that could've/should've/would've been said didn't get said because of time and topic constraints.

[@darylgrunau]

Yes. Please do video about “Christian music”

[@TS-yd6cn]

If your dream at seminary school is masseuse riding in coach, that needs to be crucified. This is oddly profound.

[@darlameeks]

"I'm so grateful that Jesus suffered that way so I don't have to." Wow, that is so wrong on so many levels! Phil. 3:10-11 "I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the sharing of his sufferings by becoming like him in his death, if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead." As they say, "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." Btw, America is based on Masonic principles, not Christian principles.

[@colinvandenberg3446]

I'd caution against letting these people speak for all Protestants. While this element of Protestantism could be criticized for, " taking the easy way out," I've always preferred this inclusive, grateful interpretation of Jesus's love to the constant shaming and gatekeeping of other Christian faiths that to me over-empasize human suffering as a kind of prerequisite to following Christ nto his Kingdom.

[@darlameeks]

@@colinvandenberg3446 Hi, Colin. Suffering isn't a prerequisite to following Christ into his Kingdom, but rather the consequence of it. Entering into Christ's sufferings is what happens when we begin to love the way He loved. It happens when we begin to serve the way He served. He said we would be persecuted, for instance, up to and including martyrdom. There is suffering when we are moved with compassion. There is suffering when we can't help others who are suffering. It is suffering that leads us to help others who suffer when we find we can help.

[@colinvandenberg3446]

@@darlameeks OK I understand what what you mean. What I'm talking about is the gatekeeping, i.e. "You're not a real Christian unless you suffer like Christ suffered." I was taught that following Christ's example brings us closer to God, but we enter His Kingdom because we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. Jesus loves us because we love Him, and that is the only prerequisite to his otherwise unconditional love.

[@darlameeks]

@@colinvandenberg3446 I agree with you, brother! Salvation by grace through faith alone is not in question, and nothing can separate us from His love!

[@glorianamaendel4539]

This is the first time I've ever seen two people have a genuine conversation in the youtube comments section, not attack the other person, acknowledge the other person's points, respond in a thoughtful manner, and actually come to an agreement! Well done, guys!!

[@MamaShawnyD]

Where can I find episodes 380 and 298?

[@TheMontross]

Where can we find this Samuel Perry article?

[@TheMontross]

Whoops, sorry. Just saw the link. Thanks!

[@dkjay22]

You guys are awesome

[@OCyrus1989]

"Where did Jesus' masseuse ride?" They got Him two donkeys in Jerusalem, right?

[@JoshuaAndrewN]

Kaitlyn 100% needs to check out Keith Green. His music is timeless. I can't listen to or watch clips of him and not tear up.

[@markdouglas8073]

Keep moving in this direction.

[@TheMister123]

11:50 - What did she say? "The lang-gunner rights part"?

[@darlameeks]

Recommend Shane Claiborne as your next guest...

[@timwaidley830]

Yes!

[@duncescotus2342]

A poem for the Christian Nationalist, 2021 James' mum did not abort Little James though he was short and history was changed Little James grew up to be The Madison of history and write the Constitution Not all of it did he give pen Some of it was Hamilton and some was Gouverneur Morris We the People goes the track At the top in a big black But people weren't involved In convocation had in heat No one much was thrilled to seat that Philly stinky summer A committee of detail was formed To make sure the thing conformed to good English grammar Southerners weren't too enthused Virginians scoffed to be abused of rights held to be sacred Slavery won't just go away In fact it's more than here to stay We've got a big advantage Said the men who sat in pews like Rutledges who read the news from Charlestonian papers Three fifths a man is pretty nice Not for him but to entice the South to ratify And Delaware so small and flat Got two men to wear the hat of Senatorial status New Yorkers fought among themselves Federalists had books on shelves that no other party read And old Ben Franklin watched upon Events that old Anacreon would have called unruly But the kitchen proved to be To warm for all for lingering And the thing was wrapped With 10 addenda stuck on tail Good noble rights to all avail including arms to bear And so today there is on street Armalites and packing heat That might have scared a drafter But prophets they were not to be These great men of history who wrote the Constitution Judge not a man by present tense But only In his own pretense of days long over-past If noble then then judge him so If he was not be fair to go and say he was a human Not the kind that walks the earth Small world of ours that has a dearth of land and fair resources Old times were glorious much more Than these days when all abhor the news though riveting Ah those days fourscore and some 'fore carpetbaggers had their fun in what was reconstruction But Civil War failed to divide the union that God did provide (the god of Providence) And so it's He that looks at us An eye some shocked to call Horus of Egyptian fame But who is wise to know such things Old secrets that were hid from kings by liberal-minded men?

[@bethprather9241]

I watched the Jesus Revolution and it was new to me. It was truth but my parents would have called them hippies and living in comune..It was interesting and different but sadly I was uncomfortable a bit

[@MichaelJohnson-vi6eh]

i love this podcast. there is such a strong belief in society that christianity is divided into hateful cray cray fundamentalists and squishy liberals. you present a real biblical personal thoughtful perspective.

[@bethprather9241]

Im confused on the pick up your cross and if you follow the 10 commandments especially the be a virgin when you marry . I do think following the commandments especially Love the Lord with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself, covers all the commandments.. We do have them for a reason.. They guide our laws .Do ot murder.. It has nothing to do with salvation but important

[@Particularly_John_Gill]

Lecrae said he wasn't supporting Warnock.

[@jordanmyers7593]

Ive been hearing these “scientific studies “ that say people have both Y & X chromosomes. Is this true? Is there anything to refute this?

[@altitudemanagement]

If you're being serious, sex determine hormones are XX for female and XY for males. There are other possibilities but those are uncommon. So males almost always have both X&Y chromosome.

[@journeygirl8109]

The X and Y chromosomes are the sex chromosomes. The mother always contributes an X to her child via the egg. The father contributes either an X or a Y via the sperm. When the X from the egg is paired with another X from the sperm, this is a biological female. When the X is combined with a Y, this is a biological male. There are relatively rare instances of people having three sex chromosomes instead of two. XXY Syndrome is also known as Klinefelter’ Syndrome: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome. There is also XXY Syndrome: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome. We have been doing human karyotypes (visually profiling human chromosomes) since the mid-1950s, so we’ve known about this for awhile.

[@journeygirl8109]

In addition to XXY and XYY Syndromes, there are many other medical/biological reasons people may be classified as intersex: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex. So while there is a lot of scientific evidence to help us understand intersex conditions, there is no scientific evidence to refute its reality. I haven’t seen any literature on the subject, but I believe most transgender people are not intersex, but that does not make their condition any less real. I’m not sure if this is what you were asking, but I hope this is helpful.

[@jordanmyers7593]

@@altitudemanagement Yes, it was a serious question. I don’t have any study history on these topics and an article I read seemed to use it as an excuse for transgenderism. Thank you for the insight 👍🏼

[@jordanmyers7593]

@@journeygirl8109 Wow, thanks for the information. I will look into those links further. 👍🏼

[@seemoreclearly2122]

Thinking about your comments on being radical on different axes brought me to this thought.......Jesus did turn culture on it's head and Christianity is radical, when we try to make it palatable to a culture, we lose the saltiness of the message.

[@brendayanok6393]

I cannot find episodes #298 & #380 that are mentioned.

[@bethprather9241]

John F Kennedy was very against communism. I enjoy watch theb history and times if the 1960's . I was born in 67 and so much happened. BUt almost everytime I watch a documentary, they are very concerned over and over about communism spreading. The wars .

[@bethprather9241]

I feel like I grew up ,yes learning about Jesus and the Good News truth. But we spent a lot of time on the drinking issue. Over and Over.. Temperance league and more and Sex .. Only for marriage .. Over and over.

[@CGGeary]

I'll be honest, I've been listening to the Holy Post for awhile, and what I'm seeing is a bitter frustration with a loud group and projecting it onto anyone who's conservative. It's just weird. I'm in agreeance against what is described as Christian nationalism, but the lines don't seem to be clear. Is anyone that has a desire for Christian ethics, which have benefited the world, to be in their culture and governance a Christian Nationalist? Like there's a lot of extrmem statements and history being discussed, but there are plenty who don't fit into that camp, but also don't fit into this more progressive mold. All of this just seems more bitter due to recent and personal experience held by those in the podcast.

[@SoldatDuChristChannel]

from one extreme to the other, lol. Sometimes people need to bounce back and fourth, immersing themselves in these extremes, to learn the good and bad of both, to finally emerge out of it with a balanced and understanding view of why people side with certain beliefs... those are the people who will be most helpful, the peacemakers

[@greglogan7706]

Caleb, With respect I think you are missing the point. We are not to be beating people up with our perception of whatever "Christian" culture is but are simply to be humbly serving and connecting in the name of Jesus and encouraging people themselves to be open to the spirit of God to reveal the Father. This latter is massively distinct from what you see in evangelicalism today particularly from the likes of John mccarthur and others who really are all about just beating people up with their own ideologies and arrogance but tie a little ribbon name Jesus on top of it

[@StephenMatlock]

When you attempt to make the Christian religion that you hold for yourself the Christian religion that all Christians must believe, and then use that to attempt to make all people in America fit in that mold--yes, you're a white Christian nationalist. The best America is an entirely secular America with no religion used for public policy. We can look at the common good or general ethics, but when we make any attempt to smuggle in our individual Christian beliefs, we are going into the sin of Christian Nationalism. Yes, it's a sin, and it needs to be called out so we can call people into the kin-dom. You can be "conservative" (whatever that means; I was self-identified as "conservative" for 40+ years) and not be a white Christian nationalist. Sure. Hold on to the things you find valuable and ethical. (Suppression of voters is not "conservative," for example, and it is neither valuable nor ethical.) But when you attempt to use your personal faith as a weapon against other people who don't agree with you theologically, you are sinning. I don't think you want me to define for you what your Christian belief and behavior should be. And I also don't want you assuming that your version of Christianity is what I must agree with and want to see pushed upon everyone else. If we believe in an all-powerful God, and we believe that we can be instruments of bringing people into the kin-dom by our thoughtful words and our actions of obedience to Christ (which is what we're told in our scriptures), then we are not going to want to impose Christianity upon other people. Jesus didn't do that, ever. And it is 100% sinful for us to try to do it.

[@greglogan7706]

@@StephenMatlock Beautifully and articulate stated!! Weaponizing the idolization of one's own ego using the name of Jesus because there's a lot of power in that name

[@christopherburrell9630]

Phil misses the goal post because he gets bogged down into the politics of it all. Too focused and worried about the politics instead of the gospel. Phil could learn a lot from Paul who came into Corinth saying, " I desire to know nothing amongst you, expect Christ and him crucified. " Even a cursory history lessons on the state sanctioned evils and depravity of Roman empire will show social injustices on a massive level that we couldn't even fathom here in the US, mass slavery being one of them. Yet, Paul, Peter, John, James didn't choose to take up social justice in their letters in the NT. They refused to take up the politics of the Roman Empire and force change. Instead they preached Christ as the only answer to reform society. Phil would do well to follow their example, because they knew aside from Christ changing peoples hearts, there is no real change, mankind will just go from one form of evil to another.

[@warkraftrabbitz2171]

Apologies for potentially bringing up a sore subject. How does Phil feel about fans showing Vegetales to their kids? In the light of the Dave Chapelle/Netflix controversy, I wanted to ask whether or not he prefers us to not support the content considering the history there.

[@Cyrribrae]

What controversy is this? I tried looking it up, but Chapelle and controversy is an endless mine of content. What's the issue and link to VeggieTales?

[@warkraftrabbitz2171]

@@Cyrribrae Well per Phil’s testimony he lost control of his work during bankruptcy hearings. Just wondering if Phil sees any of the reward for his creative work. If so, I would gladly support, if not would value his feedback. David Chapelle recently asked his fans not to watch his show on Netflix bc he was unhappy with the compensation he received as a creator. The boycott worked and Chapelle was able to renegotiate terms. #JusticeforPhil? Anyway would value Phil’s feelings on it as Veggie Tales does some good kingdom work for the lil ones. I am split on the matter.

[@Cyrribrae]

@@warkraftrabbitz2171 ah. Like does he get any royalties from ongoing distribution? I imagine not, but who knows. If anything, I bet he'd prefer you to directly support his new company and the kids programming (Mr Phil Show) he distributes there instead. That will likely be a bigger chunk than renegotiating distribution on decades old programming. Just my uninformed two cents.

[@warkraftrabbitz2171]

@@Cyrribrae Ty! 🙂

[@BionAvastar3000]

Pretty good until the end. I hear some dangerous rhetoric creeping in . . .

[@versemind3918]

I love it, radical on multiple dimensions!

[@genesisp3884]

Please make a video about Christian music

[@songsgardensbyjenniferlynn3242]

Wow, “be faithful in the small things” and not try to make it big, be famous, etc.

[@stargate2395]

Who is the guy who doesn't speak?

[@JaseRuggy]

That's me! I speak sometimes! Mostly I'm just there for a laughtrack and to make sure nothing goes wrong technically. Then I edit the show. : ) Go listen to this week's episode if you want to hear me talk about peeps.

[@2serve4Christ]

😊😂🤣 27:21 "...Bada Boom Bada Bing. I'm Jesus" @philvischer

[@jamessheffield4173]

My problem is the good Christians like the good Germans who virtue signal but do nothing, James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

[@bdabroad]

Did the farts smell good inside this bubble? I bet they did

[@ThePoliticrat]

If you belong to the Constitution Party then you may be a Christian nationalist.

[@StephenMatlock]

"may" is doing a *lot* of work here.

[@JesusLovesBest]

...that underwear eagle must have a serpent in its claws and an American flag in its beak!🙂🙃😉

[@bethprather9241]

😂😂😂Name your child Tucker..!!

[@seemoreclearly2122]

Ok so this is kind of funny - go from, don't show successful pastors to seminary students but, definitely mention that Preston Sprinkle is a best selling author. You were right in the first part - that our success in following Jesus is related to how we model him and had nothing to do with how many people notice or like it.

[@jgunn03]

You all are doing the same thing the church is doing: Completely ignoring intersexed people. If you bring on the discussion of intersexed, you'll be more updated in your ignorance of how bodies/minds work. Gender/sex can differ on the DNA & cellular levels from visible sex organs (I hope you understand that messed-up sentence).

[@Greg-il8by]

Preston just straight up lied multiple times. Feel free to bring a REAL doctor on here - physician, researcher, or psychiatrist to talk about these issues, not one who studied the Bible in school. I'm forever done with this podcast now.

[@greglogan7706]

Greg, Examples of intentional false statement?? I am not necessarily disagreeing with your claim but I would be intrigued to know what specifics you were referring to.

[@stephenthompson3309]

17:43 Pretty telling that none of them, even the one who went to Liberty, couldn't recite the scripture off the top of their head. I'm gonna write this without even looking it up, so if I get a part a little wrong, that's just proof of my honesty, but even I remember: "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." Two Corinthians, a certain bad orange man would tell you. 😆 I'm just saying, sitting in Kaitlyn's spot, that's something that popped into my head, just a few seconds behind Phil crafting his joke, and I would've thrown the scriptural phrase out there before the discussion moved on. Never a bad time to speak the Word.

[@MarkRidlen]

I'd like to hear Preston's take on Romans 1. Kind of surprised that didn't come up in the conversation.

[@wheeler116]

I loved the point where she brought up culture making. That book is amazing

[@jessefunnell7661]

I like a lot of the truth being spoken here. I dislike the poking fun at others. I do not believe that is very kind to others.

[@37squarepetals]

Another really great discussion on Christian Nationalism was done by Southside Rabbi. I really appreciate the two guys who do it because I find they speak the truth with grace. Might be worth looking into if you're interested in more christian perspectives on the issue.

[@jessefunnell7661]

@@37squarepetals Thanks! I will take a look at it.

[@jessefunnell7661]

@@37squarepetals I thought the discussion with Southside Rabbi was okay. I liked Tim Keller's discussion more in the video link below because he highlights more of the realities of both sides. One - how Christian Nationalism has become more apart of the state, and two - how on the other side one can become overly "woke" or too far to the left. Now how one decides to vote? I do not know, but no one should be judged for voting a certain way. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWWwkH5rq9J3mZo&ab_channel=ChurchLeaders.com I know Phil and Skye do not overtly say in this podcast to vote a certain way. It just feels like the mocking can be interpreted indirectly as "well you voted this way and that is wrong". I thoroughly believe if Christians stepped up and voted for a third party, we would not have this corrupt two party system and black and white fallacies.

[@37squarepetals]

@@jessefunnell7661 yup absolutely. I think the goal of podcasts like this to to ask people to think about why they're voting the way they vote and not just voting along party lines because that's what they've always done. Unfortunately sometimes the way the question is asked can feel overly confrontational.

[@jessefunnell7661]

@@37squarepetals yes. I agree.

[@bkucenski]

Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a jubilee for you; each of you is to return to your family property and to your own clan. - Leviticus 25:10 Therefore thus saith the Lord; Ye have not hearkened unto me, in proclaiming liberty, every one to his brother, and every man to his neighbour: behold, I proclaim a liberty for you, saith the Lord, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. - Jeremiah 34:17 The whole chapter in Jeremiah is gold and you quickly realize the Confederacy is lucky God didn't turn it into a sheet of glass.

[@gw1652]

Uhh God allowed slavery in the Bible. I’m not sure he would’ve turned the confederacy to glass.

[@bkucenski]

@@gw1652 You obviously have not done your research. Read the book "Reading While Black"

[@gw1652]

@@bkucenski Ad hominem and never addressed my original point. God allowed slavery in the Bible :)

[@bkucenski]

@@gw1652 Okay, so watch Mike Winger go through the same points. I'm not going to debate a lost cause.