.45 ACP FMJ For Defense: The TRUTH!

[@jamesrichardson6357]

25 years ago i was shot with a 45 acp fmj it tore through my leg shattered my femor and distroyed my vascular system and both my major nerve systems in that leg . After 9 surgeries 1 rod 4 screws and about 400 staples 25 uears latter it still hurts . 45 acp ball will fuck you up is the point im making .

[@3rdpig]

Any of the current crop of self defense rounds from 9mm on up will do the same thing. And "fuck you up" isn't necessarily the same thing as "winning a gun fight". If the other guy kills you are you really going to care how many surgeries he went through?

[@jamesrichardson6357]

@3rdpig we are talking about fmj how ever a 9mm + p and it's equivalent 45 acp + p round is still night and day that 45 would beat that 9mm in both kenitic energy, energy dumping and wound cavity . The only benefit the 9mm is its faster allowing it to penitrat harder targets better . . 40 s and w and 10 mm are much better then both of those rounds . Both having the kenitic energy wounding ability of the 45 and comparable volocity to the 9mm .

[@kinleyfam]

​@3rdpig I've seen so many real shoot out vids of police officers who were shot and wounded, and didn't even have it as bad a the guy with the leg wound, and it took them completely out of the fight, their partners had to save them, when they got shot they switched to trying to hide and save themselves, their mind wasn't in shooting back anymore.

[@georgegravette1132]

Thanks. It's rare to hear an "I got shot with . . . " ammo, attesting to its effects, instead of the usual stats, ballistic gel tests, etc.

[@earlunderwoodjr.6766]

@@jamesrichardson6357 many enemy soldier’s were killed by the .45 ACP. Either fired from the Government issued 1911 pistol, and the Thompson sub-machine gun.

[@pepere2205]

With 45ACP, I don't have range ammo and carry ammo. It is all FMJ, 230 grains. Worked for me in the military, and it will work for me now.

[@Kevin-s7s]

Well. They have some really fast 45 now. I get it. But its moving twice what fmj is. Kinda cool to have a speedy chunk.

[@GregGlaeser-j4u]

Exactly! I was watching this documentary on TV years ago and it explained how the 230 grain FM J 45 round moves approximately 800 ft./s which is why it does so much damage. It tends to dry tissue and debris along with it as it passes into the body cavity.

[@leefleck3598]

All I know is I'm 1911 was designed to shoot full metal jacket other than that I will keep my opinion to myself except for the fact that I think the 1911 is the best designed pistol ever

[@MichiganSilverBack]

and dont forget back in the day, ball type ammo was about all there was, and round or flat nose lead. if you could only have one pistol. it would be a 5" 1911 with 230g ball..

[@Brett235]

"everything falls to the hardball"

[@lewis9888]

I was told decades ago that I needed to get a ramp polish job on my 1911A1 to be able to shoot hollow points. I never got it done, so FMJ it is. Hollow points will not feed.

[@Brett235]

@@lewis9888 from my limited research and experience of the 1911 pistols I have come to learn and realize that the service pistol was designed for the 230 grain ball, that's what feeds the best and is most reliable.

[@Thoreau-e4l]

​@lewis9888 I got two Springfield 1911s millspec. I cast 200 grain cast lead flat nosed bullets. They don't function soo great with factory mags, but are flawless in Wilson combat mags.

[@Bob-bb3ur]

It was good enough for Sergeant York and Audie Murphy it's good enough for me

[@dantheman4259]

Spoken like a true grunt Fuckin A

[@locacarnivore900]

Remember that line when your on the stand in your wrongful death suit.

[@paulsonneborn8164]

It seemed to put a lot of Germans,Japanese,Koreans ,Vietnamese and many others in not alive status. More tests are a bit redundant.

[@bernardconeghen]

amen

[@outerlimitz67]

Lol, Proved itself in Actual War, Now it has to prove to some Retard with a KZbin Channel? Go fuck yourself

[@Gostwriterindisguise]

Mostly from submachine guns.

[@steverussell6642]

How many really got shot with handguns? That would be a last ditch weapon you want to use your rifle whenever possible.

[@bernardconeghen]

you are right but the 1911 when called upon never let a GI or Marine down saved my uncles life in the pacific

[@doylethorn9251]

There was a case I investigated many years ago. A middle aged man weighing 185lbs wearing a tee-shirt, was shot three times with 230gr FMJ 45 ACP. The pistol was a Colt Commander. The distance was about eight feet. All three shots were full frontal. One round hit a rib going in and between the ribs on the back. One round went between the ribs going in and hit a rib in the back. The last round went between the ribs front and back. Now here's the interesting part, all three bullets were found under the skin on the back side. The elasticity of human skin is amazing. I'm sure the large round nose of the bullets made it harder to poke a hole out the back with the skin flexing out. Nothing but lung tissue damaged, two in one lung and one in the other lung. The info was from his Autopsy.

[@locacarnivore900]

Interesting. Just goes to show one never knows exactly what will happen when lead meets live tissue.

[@glynnmitchell9253]

Actually, that goes to show what the bullet does when hitting flesh. I have investigated many shootings as well and that is the thing I saw - full penetration of the body and the bullet being caught in the skin on the off side. This happens quite often with soft nose hunting rifle bullets on deer as well. It’s common to find the projectiles in the clothing on the off side as the bullets just barely make it through the skin on the off side. The only pass through I saw was a guy that was shot in the foot. The bullet completely passed through the tennis shoe and the foot and was buried in the ground ( two men struggling to control the gun and it discharged straight downward).

[@thomasstackhouseocm3081]

Has worked effectively for U.S. Military (1911) for a very long time.

[@filippocorti6760]

How tall was he, though? That will say something about how thick his torso was.

[@woodystube1000]

Very interesting. I investigated a suicide as a young LEO in which he shot himself under the chin with a 1911 and an FMJ round. The shockwave essentially shattered all the expansion joints and smaller bones in his skull, rattled around, and did not exit. Other than blood from his mouth, nose, and ears, he looked intact until moved. My point is penetration and energy are not the same thing.

[@earlunderwoodjr.6766]

FMJ bullets not only penetrate, but feed better than most defense loads, with hollow point bullets.

[@tbjtbj4786]

In today's gun world if you are having trouble because you can't find a hp that will work in the gun. You have a sorry gun

[@JerryRedd-bs8xi]

Try enjoy flat points they feed well and perform well on game. IUSE THIS style in hardcase 45 colt and they work very well.

[@JerryRedd-bs8xi]

It would be nice if YT would quit changing the spelling of words so meaning is lost.

[@JerryRedd-bs8xi]

Try fmj flat point bullets .I use hard cast flat points i 45 Colt and they work well deliver good stopping power and a straight bullet track without veering off track.

[@HalfCrazy520]

@@JerryRedd-bs8xi There's an "EDIT" option... you can correct it.

[@corybrown8422]

This is why I carry Underwood Xtreme defender in pretty much everything. It does not care about clothes or pretty much anything.

[@TheRealZJM377]

That's right. I have mine mix with Federal HST and Barnes tac-xpd

[@robertgoodrich8953]

I also use underwood Extreme Defense in all my pistols. Unfortunately their Controlled Chaos rifle rounds won't cycle in any of my .308semiautos

[@Alaska610ish]

In law-enforcement supervisor school, we studied 50 shootings in the military with 9mm full metal jacket, “FMJ”. FMJ 9mm was extremely deadly and I couldn’t believe what it went through far as clothing, humans, cars and walls. It was a very deadly round. In Alaska, I saw where somebody killed a grizzly bear with a nine mil FMJ and also saw where somebody shot a grizzly bear with an AK-47 with FMJ. In Afghanistan and Iraq, a lot of guys die from FMJ.

[@locacarnivore900]

Per Evan Marshall, 9mm and .45 FMJ are statistically tied for one shot stops in the 60% range. It exists to fulfill treaty requirements and for reliable feeding under combat conditions. It has never been a good choice for civilian/LEO use.

[@blueduck9409]

Dude, take your 9mm talk to a 9mm video. This is the 45 acp we are talking about here.

[@LBrawn]

@@locacarnivore900 WE NEVER SIGNED THE DAM TREATY, STOP SAYING THAT!!!!!

[@MiJaHa]

Which has exactly what to do w/.45 fmj?

[@JoseyWales44s]

Well, I believe that the FBI came to exactly the opposite conclusion after the their disastrous shootout with bank robbers in Miami Florida in 1986. The testing showed that 9mm FMJ was ineffective, hence they went with 10mm, then a loaded down 10mm and finally back to modern 9mm after they discovered that the increasing infusion of small female agents had trouble wrangling the 10mm pistols in their little hands.

[@donaldmartin4980]

It was designed for self defense , it worked then , still works now . Shot placement is the most important element . Headshots work with just about any caliber .

[@chrisschweitzer8707]

I think a flat nose or hollow point at least at lower velocity would be less likely to glance off than a round nose.

[@MarkBerg-tk8js]

@@donaldmartin4980 head shots are trickery

[@donaldmartin4980]

@ if you can’t maintain a four inch group you shouldn’t be shooting at anything . Headshots are no trick …Yes, I do carry a .45 ACP most of the time ..

[@frankmorris4790]

Ball has done the dirty to men. Bob Loveless speaking of the .45ACP " A freight train at 98MPH will FLATTEN you. Same train, 2MPH, will FLATTEN you. I carry a Combat Commander stuffed with 230 ball. haven't felt "nekkid" in better than 40 years..

[@maxmccain8950]

The 45 ACP made its bones with hardball.

[@AMXSShirt]

John Browning wanted 200 grain .45 ACP. He knew?

[@PassivePortfolios]

But Gen. Pershing specified the 230 grain bullet to duplicate the 45 Colt performance. He knew from practical experience.

[@davidqualls1766]

​The 1911 ​was meant to replace the 1873 SAA IN .45 "Long" Colt. Utilized as a "horse pistol" for cavalry use. In addition to being deadly to an adversary, this meant that a soldier could stop an enemie's mount as well as his own, if necessary.@@PassivePortfoliosThis required great penetration as the test proved.

[@mikereinhardt4807]

The Army board that teated the 45ACP might argue with you. They used live pigs and human cadavers to test it and found it very effective. Remember also that shot placement is just as, if not more important than, bullet caliber...

[@brianhillis3701]

I had a boss who had been hit in the chest with 3 .50 cal bullets. He survived and was back in combat in less than a year. It isn't so much the bullet but is the bullet effective with the placement. 😅

[@randallscott-key802]

That story is not true. They shot steers weighing over 1,000 pounds - a bit larger than most humans. Then intentionally shot them through the lungs and observed for reaction and how long it would take for the animal to do down. the .30 Mauser was the most decisive of rounds fired into live steers which makes sense because it's also leaving the barrel about 600fps FASTER than the 45ACP which means it actually has a supersonic shockwave attached to the bullet ogive that helps initial tissue disruption until the round goes subsonic which is certainly did in huge steer! They also shot cadaver limbs, and HERE the 45ACP impact to cadaver limb made it swing more than the lighter calibers which is where the entire mythos of the 45 being able "knock a man down with a hit to the thumb" was born. The Thompson-Lagarde tests were conducted long before anything close to a "science" of ballistics was understood. In an era before cameras on every lapel, roof, street corner, and orbit, actual shooting accounts were as varied as human perception, meaning everybody had a different view - just like today, two people see the exact same thing and each swears the exact OPPOSITE effects occurred! The 45ACP was developed into it's "modern" form in 1905, 6 years BEFORE the Army's handgun trials chose the 1911, and the "fix was in" the whole time. The 45 ACP was nothing less nor more than the ballistic equal to the 45 Schofield save for the copper plated bullet, and the 45 Schofield was a derivative of the 45 Colt reduced loading that Army quickly adopted as standard after the original 45 Colt was just too much macho for government needs. The Army believed in the big bullet going slow notion because they had 100 years of experience with it due to the limitations of black powder. But it didn't make them right. Even then the .30 Mauser was a proven warfighting cartridge - no less than Winston Churchill used one in Sudan to gun down some number of "fuzzy-wuzzies" and he never said it failed to put 'em down! The second J.M. Browning went ashore across the pond, he designed what would become the Hi-Power around the then still young, German 9mm "Luger" round and for good reason; it was smaller, a pistol could hold almost twice as many shots, and the 124 grain bullets in European loadings were stepping out at almost 1,300fps which is STOUT, and at that speed, even the "round nose" design carried a broad shock cone into the target than subsonic impacts do not. The proof the George Luger was "right" comes a few years later when the 357 magnum is developed, pushing a heavier, 158gr. LSWC half-jacketed slug at 1,400fps+ and hit like the hammer of Thor despite not being purposely designed to disrupt and deform. If Asteroids and auto crashes have taught us anything, 'SPEED KILLS!" a THROWN, 4oz fastball to the jaw might cause a bruise, possibly a fracture, a tiny, 158gr. 357 magnum slug to the jaw will shatter the entire mandible, macerate surrounding tissue, blow out all teeth near the strike, and result in a permanent and profound disfigurement IF the person survives! One is big, much heavier, but going slow, the other tiny, weighs nearly nothing, but is going 300fps faster than sound on impact. Now, for those who want what the 45ACP CAN BE, graduate to the 460 Rowland which pushes a 230gr. slug at 1,350-1,400fps for almost 1,000 foot-pounds of energy, but more importantly, even in "ball" configuration, a wide, supersonic shock cone that impacts with the bullet, transferring the shockwave into the tissues which results in significant damage even without expansion.

[@filippocorti6760]

@@randallscott-key802 I always wondered how effective the 7.62 Tokarev round was when used. IIRC, it is a little more powerful than the .30 Mauser. The 7.62 Tokarev was ultimately replace by the 9mm Makarov, which isn't much more powerful than the .380 ACP. Are you sure about the Mauser round putting down steers more quickly than the .45 ACP? The Mauser round may have had more energy than the .45, but the .45 had much more momentum to break through bone and vitals.

[@firestorm8471]

I think it was .30 luger used in the tests, not .30 mauser

[@sparky_-mf2cs]

Id also ad that underpenetration has always been more of an issue than overpenetration...ive never herd of someone being hit from a bullet fully passing thru someone first... plus we always follow the 4 safety rules right? Whether we carry fmj or hallows...be sure or your target and whats beyond it...

[@ajm2872]

2 sucking chest wounds are better than 1. Overpenetration as a risk to bystanders is a myth crafted to sell you expensive ammo.

[@waholoopesorry74]

Well said

[@randallscott-key802]

The 45ACP "ball" wasn't "designed" to penetrate. It is simply a copper jacketed version of the old 45 Schofield load, updated for the upcoming Army service pistol trials. a bullet designed to penetrate would NOT be a big, bulbous, round nose! But that feature does come in handy as I shall point out. If expanding bullets are so critical to "stopping power" then why are hardcast lead, and even FMJ RN bullets used to bring down HUGE, dangerous animals that are often charging toward the shooter? The answer is because humans are relatively think front 2 back, often no more than about 8 inches "deep". Expanding slugs are a bullet design compromise to make a small bullet act more like a big bullet since a FMJ of almost any caliber will penetrate clean through on a frontal chest shot. By making the bullet expand, we lose penetration we didn't need, in hopes of dumping more energy. It seems to work well - or does it. MOST people shot, are not shot with expanding bullets! That's right, other than the coppers, and dedicated manly-men EDC doods, most people buy ammo based on price and $12.50 for a 50 round box of 9mm beats $35 for a 20 round "pack" that barely fills one magazine! MOST people don't expect to be in a gunfight, and you know what, most people are right - they go an entire life without being in a shooting situation! Now let's address the decades of lies perpetrated on the internet about what being shot did or did not do in a given situation. I won't detail it, I'll just say, you're already on the site where you can do a search and watch innumerable actual shooting videos to see for yourself that MOST of the time, upon shot one, everybody scatters and the person shot either runs away, or collapses depending on where hit. FEW continue any aggression at all AFTER being hit. This means most defensive calibers - whatever they happen to be, work - from the 22LR on up. If you view a variety of gel tests using expanding versus FMJ bullets you'll see the trade-off in penetration for supposed tissue disruption, only human tissue doesn't "fracture" like gelatin, and human "innards" can absorb significant expansion and contortion without rupture. So what's the right answer? We've had it all along, and we had if BEFORE the expanding bullet craze designed to transfer more of YOUR money into THEIR bank! It's called "magnum velocity"! I have personally had the opportunity to "test" to use that term, the same hard cast SWC slug, one loaded to 38Spl velocity, the other loaded to 357M velocity which means profoundly subsonic versus well above supersonic. Take note that a plane passing through the "sound barrier" generates a tremendous shock wave that can shatter windows 50,000 fit below. A bullet passing by subsonic, makes only a smallish "bow wave" in the air. A bullet whipping past supersonic, makes a clearly audible "crack" or "snap" which is also a powerful shock wave on the scale of a relatively tiny bullet! That CRACK is the formation of a shock cone attached to the bullet - for rifle bullets, the shock wave attaches at the base and is fairly narrow. But PISTOL bullets are vastly different because not one, not ANY proper handgun bullet is "designed" for supersonic flight. They're short for caliber, with blunt noses, or flat noses, or flat noses with ledges (SWC). At subsonic speed they form a bow wave, but pushed to magnum handgun speeds, they from a pronounced shock cone attached at the NOSE! The shock wave emanates from the edge of a flat point, or the nose edge and shoulder edge of a SWC, and BION, the bulbous, blunt nose of a 45 slug will form a wide shock wave just off the nose radius! YEP, sure will! You never SEE it, because nobody loads 45ACP to 1300-1500fps! But there is a way for you to self-validate it. Do a search on an M1 Carbine ball round gelatin test and WATCH what that tiny "ball" round does as it slams through a 16 inch gel block at impact speed of almost 2,000fps! The tiny shock cone coming off the nose, creates a massive expansion channel big enough to stick your arm through, grossly distorting the gel block, transferring a significant portion of almost 1,000 foot-pounds of kinetic energy! Now watch some NORMAL weight, flat nosed hardcast fired at 1,400+fps! They TOO blast a large expansion channel through a gel block! This is WHY magnum caliber handgun rounds are so effective, while "expanding" normal caliber rounds don't really do much more than their non-expanding versions. 45ACP and 9mm energies are relatively low, no matter how you try to extract it. In the "test" I mentioned above, the subsonic load had virtually no observable effect on an organic creature shot point blank above the eye. Five more followed it, chasing the organism the first one didn't phase. Again, shot one impacted above the right eye - it doesn't get any more real than that! The exact SAME bullet, loaded approximately 400fps faster, caused an immediate cessation of life upon impact. That's just ONE account of which I have many. Subsonic, modest power pistol rounds are simply anemic any way you slice it, but they're "adequate" for all but that one-off shoot where the FBI blamed a single round that PERFORMED AS INTENDED, for the failure of an entire office full of agents who broke every rule of tactics and paid dearly for it.

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

Pro tip- many views skim thru the long LONG responses.

[@channelview8854]

I agree with pretty much everything you say here. There is one point I question, however. You make a great deal of the issue of a round being supersonic. I looked up just now to check myself. Supersonic velocity in water is 1480 meters per second. I don't know the velocity in meat and bone but a body is 70% water so it must be in the same ballpark. So my question is, if supersonic velocity is important, would it not have to be supersonic in a body rather than in air? All the phenomena of shock waves and such only occur a supersonic speeds in the medium of interest i.e. a body.

[@andypeterson8013]

@@channelview8854 -Nope! I was not going to say anything after reading that guys long comment. Atmospheric shock waves or the bullet going the speed of sound+ causing the point of the bullet to have a wake from the air does not cause the damage. It is the speed of the bullet once it enters the body. The bullet causes a hydro-static wave and that wave causes the damage especially if the hydro-static wave causes a permanent cavity. The FBI, through testing, found that a bullet would have to be traveling 2,200 fps or more to create a permanent cavity. A velocity that is less than 2,200 will leave only a temporary cavity. Remember, any organ or blood vessel in that cavity will be damaged. Energy causes cavity and energy is caused by weight and speed. You want the transfer of the most energy you can get at your disposal. Nothing beats bullet placement........so place that energy in the correct spot and that is what you want, the most energy that you can deliver accurately. It's not practical to carry a rifle for self defense but carry the biggest caliber that you can shoot accurately. .45 ACP has good energy. 9mm has good speed but you need to transfer that energy into the body. .357mag has good speed and weight and good hollow point will transfer that energy........if you have the right bullet placement it is one of the best!

[@channelview8854]

@andypeterson8013 Thanks for sharing that 2200 fps number; I had not heard that before. I carry .45 everyday. I'm sure it's not the best but I'm an old school old fool. I've got a Glock 32C in . 357 Sig. I'm sure it is potent but in the 15 years I've owned it I've never put more than eight rounds downrange without a nosedive feed jam. My heartburn with magnum caliber pistols is that they operate at such high pressures that one single round without earpro could take a significant part of my hearing.

[@danielbain3613]

If I was carrying fmj it would be for penetration, think predator defense in the woods. While not ideal, fmj can deform, 230 hard cast would be a better load for the woods. I usually carry a 357 Magnum with 200 hard cast at about 1100 fps or in a camping situation I will have a 458 Socom loaded with 500 hard cast at 1100 fps.

[@sodakhilljack7147]

So I’ve seen people shot 17 times with 9 mm police rounds and live, seen people shot in the temple with .380 and lived, shot in the chest at point blank range with 45 and lived had a rib sticking out of her chest but she was smoking a cigarette when the cops picked her up. Moral of the story? If it’s your day its your day if it’s not it’s not

[@orcinuso]

💯

[@brassmonitor]

Danm! hope she's on our side.

[@sodakhilljack7147]

Unfortunately no she was a methhead who got shot by a retired marine she was back out on the street in 3 weeks and was arrested again for aggravated robbery my friend who arrested her said smoke was coming out of her chest as she drew on her cigarette! Meth is a hell of a drug

[@leoguy1609]

Paul Harrel did a video on 45 ACP FMJ stopping abilities and it did pretty good in his testing. Ballistic gel blocks don't have bone, sinew or fluid. The 45 ACP FMJ or any other caliber but not preform the same as a ballistic gel block test. That being said I don't carry fmj in any of my firearms I use for EDC.

[@RTWMC]

I always thought Paul Harrel's "meat targets" were the most realistic. I'm sure all of us miss him, his commentary and the "meat targets"!

[@thomaskingsbury6560]

@@RTWMCnot to mention the ballistic fleece.!

[@Badgerstate]

RIP Paul.

[@LuvBorderCollies]

Only the ignorant will rely on FMJ ammo for self defense or cheap HP. Pistol bullets need velocity to expand and most handgun calibers have a difficult task to provide it.

[@jona5517]

@@LuvBorderColliesplus there tons of videos showing which work and which do not for all kinds of calibers. Tools and Targets channel comes to mind.

[@bernieeod57]

The late Colonel Cooper back in 1963 wrote how he condemned the Army Brass for insisting the .45 ACP duplicate the ballistics of the .45 Scofield instead of the .45 Colt. His choice back then was what is now called a +P load, Super X back then. A 230 grain hardball loaded to 965 FPS. His preferred carry load back then was a 200 Grain LSWC loaded to 965 FPS. He would later switch to a 239 grain Truncated conical bullet once again loaded to 965 FPS.

[@HalfCrazy520]

Today, a long time after 1963, we have Federal HST 230 grain JHPs that expand to .85" or even .9" in the heavy clothing tests and penetrate around 14". Cooper would be impressed...

[@bernieeod57]

@ We had some pretty good ammo before he passed and kept to 230 Grain truncated cone bullets. Copper believed 14" of gel was not enough penetration .

[@HalfCrazy520]

@@bernieeod57 It looks like I'm just as 'set in my ways' as Colonel Cooper was. My thinking is that if hit with a spinning, jagged projectile .85" in diameter that goes a foot deep, I'd be having a really bad day. The worst possible case is that it won't expand, but it'll still equal a 230 grain ball round.

[@bernieeod57]

@ Then again, maybe not. Cooper quoted "Velocity and expansion are variables! Mass and cross section are constants!" Variables: Add a chest rig, air soft body armor, cut off drums used as shields just to name a few which Antifa and other subversive groups and you instantly turn something which normally provides no protection into viable body armor. Just the sternum has been shown to be a variable which nullifies these modern hollow points. There are several cases where a perfect center of mass hit resulted in the perp getting treated and released the same day! The Modern JHP simply stopped right behind the sternum! Coopers opinion on gel testing? "There is no record of anyone ever having been attacked by a bowl of Jell-O in any flavor!" Cooper tested his theories on Gerald hogs.

[@HalfCrazy520]

@@bernieeod57 Look, if I'm going into battle, I won't be using a pistol. I'm talking about every day normal concealed carry for personal defense. I'm not a soldier, I'm not a cop, I won't be doing battle with Anti-Fascism troops mostly because I'm not fascist and ANTIFA doesn't have troops.

[@TARandFEATHERS]

Everyone talks about over penetration, but I've never seen any data on the number of times it has happened and an innocent bystander was harmed. I'm sure it HAS happened.........

[@LuvBorderCollies]

Over-penetration? Yes and not that long ago. Happened in NYC in on an active sidewalk. Perp took a number rounds before stopping his threat. Several citizen bystanders were wounded by over-penetration.

[@jacobackley502]

Back in 95 when NYPD was making a switch to JHP as standard ammo, a study was published that showed several fmj over penetration cases that resulted in civilian and officer injury. I’m sure you could still find it if you looked

[@2TrackMind-c6i]

Decades ago, a friend was shot in the back of the elbow at about 5 feet distance with a lead .22LR from a 5" revolver. It ended up exiting the palm of his hand after traveling the length of his forearm, destroying the distal nerves to the middle, ring and pinky, while severing the artery in three places. His elbow joint was shattered. He never fully recovered full used of that, or the strength and feeling in the fingers. He would have bled to death if not for several of us desperately trying to stanch the blood flow as we drove him out of the mountains to a fire house. Point being: The predictive outcomes of ANY bullet's effect is just a broadly painted opinion of averages. Gel models only the ratio of penetration in gel models - not the shock, trauma, and/or psychological makeup of the bad guy. For anything even remotely demonstrative of reality, I follow The Meat Test. Everyone knows who I'm talking about, may he RIP. I have replicated the test on full sized hams, as well as ribs and briskets (which remain edible). 230 Ball is more than adequate. I use 230 ball because again - on average - over 50 years of experience - it is the most functionally reliable in the 1911 platform. I have seen many guys with their "upgraded" 1911s and other makes, fussing with issues related to different bullet types or the latest new shiny on their guns. I just keep loading and shooting, no matter how dirty the gun gets My platforms have always been bone stock Colt Govt models or Combat Commanders.

[@cabochris100]

As an MP, WW2, my dad said 45 ACP ball ammo killed many!

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

"Chuck Taylor" the 1980s 1990s gun writer, trainer was a big supporter of the 1911a1 SAO .45acp & regular 230gr FMJ. He often said this set-up was ✅️ ...

[@AlanAhlman]

Appreciate your video! Personally, I think I probably have a better chance of being hit by lightning, or being in a fatal car accident, or just having a heart attack than being involved in a self defense shooting where I actually had to pull the trigger. The above statement is really why I just carry 230 grain ball in my favorite 1911: its really just peace of mind.

[@EdRoberts-rz1kk]

Talked with an old coroner after a shooting. He said that 357 and 45 acp did a lot more long term damage to tissue than 9mm and 38 special. This was back in solids days. Over penetration is a strange concern when shots fired versus hits is less than half. Do the other rounds just not count traveling at full speed less than the ones going maybe a quarter the speed. I knew an officer that got himself a glock as soon as the came out with large capacity mags, he dumped 2 full mags at a mentally handicapped man with an unloaded Thompson contender at a mental institution and didn't hit anything. I guess that was like 36 to 40 rounds flying through the air with a road and homes about 50 yards on the other side. So I shoot flat point 230s in acp and kieth type 250s in 45 lc. Oh and 45s stop coyote in their tracks 9mm and 38spl don't and they run a good way off. Don't have anymore 357s or 44mags but back when I had a 44mag it took deer real well.

[@KaijuBiologist]

Seemed to work adequately for 70+ years.

[@eddieengelbrecht7550]

I carry 200gr jhp+p in a 5inch government

[@locacarnivore900]

Ask the company who made the gun. For example, Kimber forbade +P in their guns for decades.

[@jwchenard1]

Interesting. I carry my wallet in my left rear pocket, and my keys in my right front pocket. Anything else you want to tell us all?

[@MDformernavalperson]

One problem with nearly all types of handgun ammo is that they do not disable by what you have called a "transfer of energy"; they disable/kill by penetration of vital organs and large blood vessels, whether the projectiles are hollow point or FMJ. Even if a .45 cal. bullet expanded by 50%. the difference at 12inches penetration would approximate a total wound track of 4 cubic inches versus 2 cubic inches for non-expanded projectile - not a great difference. Rifle bullets cause much greater tissue disruption because of the transfer of energy (Ek = 1/2 mass X velocity squared). So Federal lists their 45 ACP velocity a little over 900 fps; rifle velocities of course are much higher.

[@MTMILITIAMAN7.62]

This is why I carry 10mm. A 200 gr XTP at 1200 fps doesn't care what clothing you're wearing and has the velocity and sectional density to expand deep inside the body.

[@locacarnivore900]

10mm: the better millimeter!

[@BEder-it4lf]

Long ago 9x19 115gr -9mm came around. Very fast! But the military wanted more Stopping Power for Horses. So John Browning doubled the size of the bullet to 230gr .45, - Same Power! So it's slower but makes a bigger splash.

[@markteaney8381]

I think you might have your facts a little off. The 1911A 45 was designed to stop Muslims high on hash in the Philippines in jungle warfare. Browning designed the gun to operate with a round in the chamber and the thumb safety engaged. When drawn the thumb safety was switched off and the 1911A could fire twice as fast as the old colt 38 revolvers which didn't have enough knock down power as the 230 grain 45 fmj. Also the 1911A had a 7 round capacity instead of 6 round colt revolvers and the magazine loaded 1911A was faster to reload then the revolvers on horse back while holding the rains and trying to reload. 😊

[@gurugoguzhanson]

@@markteaney8381 The local resistance put tourniquets on before the fight. That way they could fight through being shot, stabbed or cut.

[@archer721]

As a veteran of 30 years of service and having carried a 1911A1 as my first issued weapon and beyond, now having one for my EDC. I can honestly say there’s a place for FMJ and it’s not on the streets for self defense ammo. There’s no problem with over penetration in the combat zone, but it’s a SUPER BAD THING in the grocery store, an apparent complex, a restaurant…

[@PassivePortfolios]

In the old days LEO agencies used the old 38 Special 158 grain RNL "Widowmaker" bullets, which often penetrated through the criminals. There have never been any cases when such complete penetrations resulted in the wording or deaths of innocent bystanders. But this idea was used to pitch "dum-dum" JHP bullets to the NY city politicians by the NYPD police union, in order to provide more stopping power to its members. And it worked.

[@deplorablebilly1066]

My combat commander hates 230 ball,but absolutely loves 185 gr ball.

[@krashdude1]

So we all have seen videos of guys shooting cinder blocks with different calibers, or multiple wooden boards etc. There will always be someone who comments, " well if I'm attacked by a concrete block, then...." Surprised someone hasn't commented " Well if I'm attacked by someone not facing me, wearing some winter clothing, that has no internal organs or bones in their body,...." etc.

[@blueduck9409]

Yes the 45 acp is very effective for defense. FMJ included.

[@larryraffburn-eg8wg]

I like the 45 acp Critical Defense.

[@ggtjr4]

No such thing as .45 acp target ammo.

[@locacarnivore900]

Well, call Federal and tell them to change the box label.

[@KennyWhite-r4j]

Most attacking people are not turning their side to you.

[@jacobackley502]

Not true, most people take a bladed stance of some sort in a fight, often running to one side to attempt to get behind you. Side presentation is much more likely than the static, directly facing, arms down, silhouette presentation

[@thomaspavelko9412]

Regardless of the caliber I carry (9mm or 45ACP) the mag in always has a defensive round,over pen is a concern of mine in a situation, spare mag is FMJ,store shelfs,doors,plate glass,safety glass ect ect is a thing in convenience stores walmarts ect ect,easy enough to swap mags. Personally 45ACP is the perfect round, for as long as it's been around it still sits right there in the middle plus cost factor and they make them with a bullet for everyone's preference. No matter the caliber there are 2 very different discussions, self defense & go to war that being said personal experience 45ACP,seen too many 9mm+P get stopped in clothing layers, now as far as self defense,your defending yourself not trying to be the Punisher. The most important part: Always carry,always be aware regardless of your choice of firearm and caliber.

[@woodystube1000]

@@thomaspavelko9412 The last part is very good advice. The rest of your comment is a bit confusing though. In what scenario do you see yourself in need of changing out the mag to shoot through shelves, doors, plate glass, etc etc?? And what round would you prefer for defense as opposed to the round you want to “go to war?” I don’t understand what you mean by that at all. Are you saying you want to stop someone from killing you by shooting them more gently if it’s defensive than if it’s “war”??

[@thomaspavelko9412]

@woodystube1000 go to " War" be the larger heavy calibers, few parts to unpack in that main being over penetration, really would suck going to prison due to the 5.56 or .308 going though a bedroom wall and killing your neighbor 6 year old that was sleeping ( home invasion scenario) or that 9mm + P FMJ killing Sara that was just getting bread ( nut job loose in a grocery store scenario). Your defending yourself not in Afghanistan. No shade on any 2A folk just keep in mind what a larger round can do vs a round ment to expand vs over penetration. The what I use and the mag change are one in the same topic, I use Lehigh defense my personal opinion is the best defensive round on the market but being a defensive round it has limited penetration in this case say though a car door, plate glass ect ect, when I leave my house there the top two threat area's are in my vehicles or in the grocery store both could require the FMJ if that turns out to be the case I can change magazines, it gives me the personal option of a hammer or a sledgehammer by carrying 2 different types of ammo also if I'm reaching for that second magazine because I have expended my original in the firearm we are in Afghanistan and now it's time to go to war. Help or make it more confusing? Understand it's just my thought process from my experience but the most important thing is that you carry a firearm.

[@charsiu808]

45 FMJ worked just fine in NAM 68-73

[@outerlimitz67]

Yes it did❤❤❤

[@locacarnivore900]

I'm glad. However, the NVA/VC did not have attorneys waiting to sue you into penury.

[@pb68slab18]

The standard 230gr M1911 'hardball' is the round that gave the .45 ACP it's reputation as a 'one-shot man-stopper'! Effective hollowpoints really didn't show up until the early 80s with the Winchester 185gr Silvertip HP and Remington 185gr SJHP+P. Those rated highly in the old Marshall-Sanow SD/police shooting compilations. Gel blocks don't have bones and muscle/organs of varying tissue strength and density. There was a local attempted robbery case years ago where a young ''skinny'' took 5 thru & thru torso hits with .45 230gr +P Hydrashoks from a Colt Officers ACP and ran away! I'm still a believer in Glaser Safety Slugs and carry them in my .45 Commander. My former doctor, who is an avid shooter and member of my club, did intern time in a Philly ER and saw hits from a Glaser and was amazed at the damage. I also still have a few boxes of that old Remington 185gr SJHP+P! But if all I was 230gr 'ball', like when I was in the Navy, I wouldn't feel at a disadvantage. Like I said, it made the .45s reputation. Ask any Vet that used one in actual life or death combat!

[@JohnPublic-dk7zd]

We don't carry our .45, but we only have fmj on hand...in fact, the only hp ammo we have ever carried was either .22wmr or .38spec., in revolvers...in all our autos we would carry fmj...there is a tiny fraction of more reliable feeding with fmj, and we are all about reliability...also, we usually carry mouse gun calibers, and penetration is the only game in town with .22lr, .25acp, .32acp...in those small calibers we are doing great to get 10-14 inches of penetration with fmj...so yeah, .45 fmj would be our choice...

[@oldguy1458]

Model 19 Performance Shop with Lehigh 357 magnum 120 grain xd 1400 fps is all anybody needs for anything.

[@jamesstodola3582]

I have found many 1911's right of the shelf have issues with hollow points and without polishing the feed ramp you are better off using FMJ, just my opinion and experience though...

[@joebarilari9911]

If you might travel through new jersey, learn to love fmj

[@locacarnivore900]

I would never travel to New Jersey.

[@iamnobody9542]

THANK YOU SIR!! For having Good Classical Music for background rather than the usual ugly grinding trash racket!! In defense of hardball, it is usually totally reliable in 1911's and there is a LOT more 'energy transfer' than an ice pick!

[@howardjoiner7453]

The piece is "a little night music" by Mozart. I can say it in German. However, my trying to write it would would be a gross injustice to the German language.

[@iamnobody9542]

@@howardjoiner7453 Ja. Das ist eine kleine nachtmusik. Mozarts 'Signature'. My favorite piece.

[@johnlong7198]

I appreciate your sharing the testing of .45 ACP FMJ. However, this appears to fall under the category of searching for “the Magic Bullet “ which we all wish we could find and carry. By that I mean having the bullet that will create a massive wound channel with out over penetrating. It just doesn’t exist. So, those of us who participate in Every Day Carry (EDC) must choose the round that best fits the environment and conditions in which we live and operate. Thank you for the video. There was something to be learned by all.

[@chrisschweitzer8707]

The round you describe probably comes out of a rifle.

[@theduck1972]

Years back, a friend handing a roommate's 1911 loaded with hollow points had an accidental discharge - he was unfamiliar with it - and struck a table's magazine storage compartment at nearly point-blank range. The compartment was constructed of 1/4 fiberboard with the plastic wood veneer covering. It went through the door, hit one of the sides at an angle which spalled the fiberboard (fine pieces flew everywhere on the outside), and the projectile was laying on the top of the magazines stored in the compartment in pristine condition... We thought it was so pristine we reloaded it and went to where we went shooting and fired it with no problem.

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

Rare but not a surprise. "Chuck Taylor" a printed magazine writer, ex cop, trainer once stated how a trooper or deputy, winter US, 🚔 was hit, lateral shot by a 230gr FMJ. The chunky .45 bullet was fired from a Army type 1911a1. It punched into his thick parka then punctured the cop's gut. He pulled the FMJ bullet out! Went to a 🏥 ....

[@woodystube1000]

Interesting video. When applying modern bullet/ballistics technology, it’s easy to see improvements can be made to the .45 ACP FMJ cartridge. But we quickly overlook the untold thousands (tens or hundreds of thousands?) of deaths caused by a .45 ACP FMJ over the last century plus.

[@jonesperkins1382]

If I was carrying a 1911. That's all I have for self-defense hypothetically. I have found that 1911 chambered in 45 do not. Reliably cycle hollow points. Except for hornady. Even then it can get dodgy. If you got a 1911 on your hip for self-defense it should be loaded with ball ammo in my opinion.

[@bigracer3867]

I’m like the late Paun Harrel. I don’t believe in all the premium pistol ammo. Just BS. I carry fmj or just inexpensive hp bulk ammo. I can shoot more than once🎉🎉 I like better rifle ammo but that a whole different elephant 🎉🎉

[@JugglesGrenades]

Something is wrong with your pistol. Barrel bushing perhaps. At 10 feet, you should be able to put shots on top of one another.

[@richwhippersnapper]

45 FMJ is much more effective than 9mm FMJ if FMJ ammunition is all you have on hand for self defense. Heavy clothing is generally not an issue in Florida like it is in say Minnesota.

[@CharlesHuyck-cf6yz]

I am a retired Commander and by far the best handgun for soft targets and barriers is the 45 with 230 hardball even works on large animals. The problem with novices like the FBI scientists and this arm chair expert is they think jelly represents real life. Case in point FBI went through 3 new calibers before settling on the 9mm. Bone and flesh is very inconsistent and unlike a rifle much more difficult to penetrate for a handgun than ballistics gel. In a real fire fight over penetration is really never ever presented as an issues in that we got troops all around the targets with no statistical casualties. Anyone who thinks jelly = armed attackers knows nothing. The developers of the 45 started with a 200 grain hardball and after much live animal and cadaver tests settled on the 230. It was meant to be a sidearm of tremendous stopping power and it is period. All these idiots shooting BS targets to test something tested by 75 years of military and many of SWAT and Special Forces success is discrediting real men who have a set and have tested it in real shooting action. Hollow points in about 100 years was never demanded like they were for 9mm. The issue with it is small handed individuals and recoil. You can double stack it but a lot cant handle this width. But people who post BS like this are inexperienced and inept.

[@swkohnle08]

My EDC is one of two Kimber TLE II's in .45acp. I have over 2000 rounds through each and carry Federal HST JHP 230 grain. Although I have no actual evidence that this is better than any other .45 acp, JHP or FMJ, I feel that the JHP round is best for self defense for me. My Kimber TLE II's both shoot the Federal HST JHP rounds very accurately if I do my part. Both Kimbers have been super reliable and the Federal HST is the carry ammo that they shoot well. Shot placement is key.

[@keithmiller6277]

I carry jacketed hollow points, but the stored ammo I have in FMJ. In a shtf scenario, fmj is fine because it is cheaper than jhp.

[@JimVaught-qm6gf]

Simple solution. Just don’t live where there is winter.

[@paulsimmons5726]

The ammo/accuracy problem is a no brainer! 45ACP/230g ammo doesn’t like Classical music… Next time, try Nugent, lol! Joking aside, I carry 230g FMJ in my 1911 because it’s much more reliable than the lighter HP’s; it’s almost like JMB designed the 1911 to run on 230g FMJ ammo. I’ve run countless magazines of 230’s through my pistol and have never had any ftf/fte issues!

[@andypeterson8013]

A low velocity chunk of lead is better than a JHP jam.

[@LuvBorderCollies]

If an auto cant function with HP reliably, there's wrong that needs fixing. Using a low powered FMJ is NOT the answer.

[@gsleatherworks2442]

The marines and several special forces units rejected 9mm in favor of .45 and still use .45 for special jobs to this day. Arguing .45 round nose isn’t viable for self-defense is really not to be taken seriously as it has a proven track record for over 100 years of military service. Are there better options? Of course! But there’s simply no argument a .45 diameter hole in your chest isn’t going to be effective as long as it hits vital organs.

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

MARSOC uses Glock 19s.

[@gsleatherworks2442]

True, but tell me why? It wasn’t because 9mm ball ammo is superior in “stopping power”. Arguing a 9mm hole id superior to a .45 hole is silly.

[@85rockhound]

Question; did the FMJ bullets have a flat meplat or round tip?

[@bradm6222]

I went through 3 different brands of ammo before I found one that the gun really worked well with.

[@michaelkovacs8413]

Glock mod.41 5.3 “ barrell 13+1 shoots any ammo very accurately best pick for self defense. New modern up grade!!!

[@christophermead9800]

Glocks are not really modern in the sense they’ve been around for 42 years. I have nothing bad to say about Glocks. Great weapons

[@Sicksociety334]

All I carry is FMJ. Most gimmick ammo is worthless and prone to cause feed issues. I do carry hollow point in my 9 and I have some for my 44 mag. I don’t really get into the hype on weird expensive ammunition

[@MichaelJohnson-tw7dq]

What brand of ammunition were you using? I missed the “extreme conditions” you tested it under. Was that defending yourself from an attack by someone without ribs or a bones in their arm, confronting you without facing you? I once stopped a charging, four year old, Alaskan bull moose, with three shots of .45acp hardball in his chest, from 12 feet away. None of the bullets exited his side, and he had no difficulty in dying from his wounds. And yes, he was wearing his heavy winter coat.

[@fredflintstone5860]

Is your barrel bent?

[@locacarnivore900]

Such a question, and we haven't even been properly introduced.

[@billypayne6197]

@@locacarnivore900 , lol - it's from thinking on his knees ...

[@jamesoncross7494]

Leigh's solid copper bullets are the king.

[@garycrandall8649]

I carry a 1911 with FMJ's for several reasons. 1. They are fairly accurate. 2. They hit hard. They function reliably and jam less than any hollow points. 3. Even though I've been reloading for 45 years and practice with reloads, I carry factory loads in my carry gun for courtroom defense. I can argue before a prosecutor that only FMJ's are approved by the Geneva Convention for wartime use because they don't cause unnecessary pain and suffering, destroying the prosecutors attempt to accuse me of using "Special Man-killer Bullets"!!! I ran this idea by my attorney who carries a 9mm for self-defense. He now carries FMJ's in his 9mm.

[@OneOfAKind-jy3hv]

In my time of service over 50 years ago, I used a number of various weapons including a few different M1911s. I had one (a brand new Colt) that was a piece of junk and a Remington from WW2 (gathered from its serial number "6") that was the best damn sidearm I ever carried. I also used a Colt M16A2 that was a great weapon verse the Harrington & Richardson M16A1 that I hatefully discard since it could only hit something if you put a bayonet on it it and threw it! (I took up carrying the M14 again for a period of time.) I am also familiar with many other weapons that were used during the Vietnam War on both sides. My point, however, is this: penetration and accuracy are a combination of having a well designed and manufactured weapon as much as the type of load you are using in combination with it. Understanding that the .45ACP is a subsonic round traveling at 800 ft per second, maximum effective range of a M1911 is only 75 feet. After that, there is no guaranteeing the accuracy of the round. And from my experience -- at close range -- there is no pistol more destructive than a M1911. (This is why many Green Berets during recent conflicts not only switched backed to using the M1911, but also switch to the Thompson .45ACP machine-gun for urban close-quarters-combat.)

[@TheFlutecart]

FMJ 230 grain all the way. An actual meat target is the way to test ammo, gel block testing gives some useful information but it's got no rib bones or simulated lung tissue.

[@inmyopinion_3672]

Unless you plan on never missing I don't see over penetration as much of a concern. It just won't have much energy left over anyway.

[@jwchenard1]

Agree 100%. Also, it's statistically more likely that you'll be hit by lightning than that you'll ever need to fire a shot in self defense. So there's that.

[@richarddavid1426]

Years ago I carried A Colt Officers handgun with 45 fmj. Accuracy was good, never jammed. A beautiful easy to shoot Self-Defense Pistol.

[@jwchenard1]

Thanks for that. My first car was a 1980 Buick Regal. I loved it. Now, did you have anything to add on the discussion of full metal jacket rounds?

[@christophermead9800]

@@jwchenard1He must have never shot that pistol because he said it never jammed. The Colt Officer pistol was a jam o matic.

[@richarddavid1426]

@@christophermead9800 not with fmj ammo....never

[@johnw4999]

A projectile in a human threat will penetrate about 50% of what it does in 10% Ballistics Gel. No telling the ratio with clear gel. In ballistics gel, 24 inches of penetration, you might get about 12 inches on the streets. Retired Army Infantry and former LEO, I believe “over penetration” to be too hyped up based on real-world shootings. While it’s good to know about over penetration and be aware of the target and what’s behind it, people need to focus more on hitting the target than over penetration. A homicide I worked, an adult male was shot in the eye during a drug deal gone bad in the woods. Entrance wound was a red prick mark. No exit from the skull or elsewhere. He fell on to the spent 9mm casing.

[@mikeenos4040]

I've been shooting 1911 for over 50 years. Hardball is the way to go. It has been proven years and years. In combat with heavy gear on , that's why it was called a man stopper. That's what it was designed for That being said there has been a lot of improvement in ammo design over the last 30 years but still for reliability with a stock gun FMJ is your best bet...

[@mikesabota2570]

One thing about 230gn combat loads..if the wound doesn't stop you,the shock power will...I'll leave it at that!!👍👍

[@caatmarine777]

One thing to consider, exiting the front or back from a side shot might be unlikely. Due to the rib cage, brest plate, and back bone structure.

[@richvest7212]

Gel tests are not realistic Just to sell 5$ a round defensive ammo

[@kkorff]

Underwood Extreme Defender is best of both worlds. Barrier blind, excellent penetration, no over penetration. Only down side is it's more expensive. I use +P loads. My main carry is 9mm. Underwood XD peforms comparible with 45 JHP.

[@robertnation3077]

Would a 230 grain FMJ flat point offer any advantages? That’s always been my fav carry load. The conventional wisdom use to be that flat points would track straighter. Have you tested any?

[@locacarnivore900]

Flat meplats (nose) encourage straight-line penetration and create a slight bow wave effect in tissue but could inhibit feeding in a semi-auto.

[@russellehrgood9835]

For decades the Military used the .45 acp fmj for battle, so, yes you can use the .45acp fmj for self defense. You should take care of your back stops though, the bullet will , in some conditions pass through the target. The .45 acp in 245gr is subsonic, so less chance of pass through.

[@wilderwyoming]

Look, this was not anywhere near a scientific demonstration for penetration of the 45 ACP, and nothing to compare to for any certainty.

[@locacarnivore900]

For a statistically valid test, I'd have to shoot upwards of 1000 rounds under identical conditions. Now, if you were to put up enough in my Patreon so I could buy that much ammo and gel, I'd love to do the test as I am just as curious as you to see the results.

[@Bob.W.]

Interesting. Tests have shown that .45 hp's are not all that consistent. If I carried a .45 it would probably have the solid copper extreme defender or penetrator in it.

[@LuvBorderCollies]

Cor-Bon with the XPB bullet is really impressive, otherwise 45acp FMJ is very blah in the terminal ballistics category.

[@hammer1794]

Well the standard ACP worked in combat in more than a few wars, in stopping people, why wouldn't still work now? Did humans evolve somehow and I'm not aware of it?

[@michaelmiller7352]

Have you tested liberty civil defense +p ammo 45 auto, just curious

[@th.burggraf7814]

The problem with using JHP, +P+, and all the other fancy modern SD rounds is that, depending on what jurisdiction you live in, using them can result in an overzealous DA trying to portray it as if you were not defending yourself, but were actively looking for - or trying to create - an opportunity to use that kind of ammo.

[@hersheljackson69]

On other calibers, I always use some type of expanding bullet, in .45 acp, I use fmj.

[@rickh8380]

Question: Would a 200gr semi wadcutter be just as effective or more so than the FMJ round? Take care all and be safe out there.

[@minarchist1776]

I have seen some people argue that the best shape for a solid bullet used for hunting has a nose that is a truncated cone. There was a formula floating around that supposedly was able to give you the optimum width of the flat section of the truncated cone relative to the caliber of the bullet for that purpose. However, I'll be darned if I can remember where it was or how to track it down.

[@crayolascents]

Red curry, white rice, shrimp. You can't go wrong. Thank me later.

[@HalfCrazy520]

I'm not going to choose my defensive ammunition based on the performance in a thru-the-arm, cross-body shot in the dead of winter.

[@locacarnivore900]

Hope you never have to take such a shot.

[@turbo5777]

What you all miss is on the battle field it doesn't matter whats behind the target like over penetration. Self defense, better look twice, especially with FMJ.

[@brassmonitor]

What about those round they use for wilde hogs? Hard cast lead i think.

[@Gary-w8y]

I've never seen 45 hardball do that, ever.

[@motorgearhead]

Saying 45 fan boys sort of sets the stage doesn’t it. I don’t disagree the ball ammo has good penetration. But a block and a half of clear gel does not a body make. There is another channel that tested 230 ball against a target made of ribs and water melons. The target was the “magnum meat target” (we miss you Paul) but I felt it relevant as the inclusion of bone changes things. This target did not have layers of clothing but did have leather skin. While not a perfect analog for what was being tested here it does offer usable data. Of The FMJ projectiles 50% stopped by exiting ribs and the other 50% stopped in several layers of fleece. The take away is 230 ball ammo may or may not exit depending on what it hits. So does this fly in the face of your results, I don’t think so but it does suggest not every shot will pass through. Is there enough of a difference to make a difference? I don’t know. Think as with any round fired, you need to be aware what’s beyond the target.

[@alexanderslemp4855]

What about FMJ hitting bone not just heavy clothes?

[@bradclem6226]

When it comes to a 45 acp Kimber! there is no substitute, I’ve carried mine for 20+yrs and it’s a tack driver and it’s jammed only one time and that probably because I didn’t clean it and it sat in my holster overnight, I cleared it and it never jammed again. Hard to beat a Kimber in my experience. I carry golden saber 185gr +p it will cut the same hole at 21ft.

[@JerryRussell-cv6ng]

Okay, then barrel bushing is not tight fitting and or it's the barrel link.

[@rudypericolo]

I live in a fairly liberal more urban area so any large or fast moving caliber fmj would probably be a bad idea for me and others living like me. Not only is there the worst case scenario of a pass through harming an innocent. I also have to take into consideration a next to worst case scenario which would be (even in a 100% legal valid defensive shooting) a pass through either coming close to a bystander or damaging property. There's so many gun hating state's attorneys out there. Many would love to make a name for themselves by prosecuting any gun owner they get in their sights. Hell, I bet many would trump up charges on any gun use if given half a chance

[@chewinbubblegum2695]

The initial wound channels through the 1st block look pencil-thin. There is no permanent large "spiral" cavity caused by hydrostatic shock as seen by many defensive rounds where a large majority of the round's kinetic energy gets transferred to the target as the bullet begins to expand. That shock-zone doesn't usually surpass 12" in depth, meaning that the majority of the energy gets "dumped" within that range. This is what translates to stopping power as it contacts vital or sensitive internals on the target. I would never carry FMJ's vs hallow points based on what I observed from these tests.

[@stevenessary7986]

I’m a 45 acp man. I chose 45 acp as my duty weapon when in LE(we bought our own and could use any center fire handgun caliber). I used and still use hollow point ammo. That being said, if I am going to stock up on ammo for possible need in a bad situation and want to stock up as cheap as possible, like most people do, I will stock 45 acp FMJ ammo(9mm is cheaper, but inferior, imo). I believe 45 FMJ if far superior to 9mm FMJ, if I have to protect myself with FMJ ammo. I believe 40 S&W FMJ is a great second choice.

[@davidschaadt3460]

FMJ ,will not penetrate Car doors ,55 gallon drums. Etc. I collect Military 1911 US pistols,but I carry a 9mm.

[@Kevin-s7s]

9 wont either. Cant even carry 9 as a ghetto guard. 40.

[@jwchenard1]

Just the other day, I was at the range practicing with my 9. As I was reloading a magazine, I was thinking to myself, "I wish these bullets would go through a car door." It bothered me the rest of the day... I'm kidding, of course. Who t f cares?

[@jwchenard1]

​@@Kevin-s7s Yes, yes. Bigger is better. We all get it.

[@MichaelJohnson-qd7cq]

I'm not sure if the problems you were having were due to the ammunition not having been made that well, something to do with the pistol or a combination of both. But I would have expected to see better performance in terms of accuracy and the bullet not wandering around so much in the gel. I live in Wyoming and bullet performance where heavy winter clothing is concerned is something that needs to be considered. While you were not happy with the performance of .45 ACP hollowpoints nevertheless your test is a worst case scenario for bullet penetration. While that doesn't render it invalid it does overlook other situations where the hollowpoint ammo might have performed better. However, the main reason I would use ball ammo is simple availability. We are currently in a situation where we can experience on again off again problems with ammo availability. So somebody's preferred fancy hollowpoint/defense load ammo might not always be available. And that holds for all calibers. In which case people would be limited to ball ammo. Now, I am not going to claim that .45 ACP 230 grain ball ammo is the one true bullet that will solve all your tactical and ballistic problems. That doesn't exist. But .45 ball ammo has a demonstrated track record of being able to get the job done more often than not. And if I am going to end up being limited to ball ammo then I prefer .45 ACP ball ammo to that in other calibers.

[@aglastlead7170]

Hornady custom 230 grn.flat nose fmj. Feeds well and is like a bulldozer 👍🇺🇸