Docking stern to in 40knots - Q&A and Commentary with Nick

[@SVTONICBoatWives]

Nice video, I think you did an excellent job explaining how and why you made those choices when docking.

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks Hon. It was much harder to edit than I expected! Will have to perfect that on the next one 😌

[@PeterLongauer-jh9fo]

Hi Nick, just finished my first week as a skipper - had a few stressful moments when coming to marina at 20kn. Once, I had a 15kn wind coming from 30 degrees on the right with two empty slots on my left side, so could not “comfortably rest” against a boat on the left. Had rear starboard line fixed, rudder full right, front half throttle, but my bow was blown to the left nearly 70 degrees before marinero pushed it back with a dingy and “saved me”. 2 questions - 1) what did I do wrong? Did I need more throttle to prevent the bow being swayed left? (Bow thruster was not strong enough and mooring line was still not on). 2) in your video, what would YOU need to do differently, if there was not boat on the left to support you? Thanks a lot! Love your videos.

[@45DegreesSailing]

Hey Peter. Well done on getting through the week! And that docking as you have explained is a challenge! Can be very stressful for sure. Short answer is yes. You needed more throttle. Especially in the beginning to counter the momentum the yacht has built up on the swing. Then to start to push through to bring her back to windward. How thruster can only help you in that situation. Never powerful enough to get the bow into the wind like that. What yacht were you on? And how long was the stern line you were driving against?

[@PeterLongauer-jh9fo]

@@45DegreesSailingHey there, thanks for the response! Elan Impression 40.1. The stern line length I was not too sure about, so looked at the video again - I realised that marinero fixed our left stern line rather than the right windward line… so probably no surprise that we got swayed left on front throttle rather than to the right … we were on a 2 meter length. However, one more thing went wrong - before the stern line fix: marinero was pulling the mooring line for us, which the crew claims was stuck under the keel so they dropped it back in the water. Without the bow fixed, I assume the right wind ward stern line rather than the left one could have saved the situation…

[@45DegreesSailing]

@@PeterLongauer-jh9fo yes you are spot on there. Windward line would have allowed you to pivot towards the wind. Leeward line giving. You a very hard time! If you have this on video would be great to see it - perhaps put it on the channel with a commentary if you are open to it?

[@nickmaltzoff9958]

Thanks Nick, really good lesson. Instinctively, I would have thrown the windward stern line first. But I see how throwing the leeward line first when you've got a boat to pivot around (portside in this case) makes sense using forward thrust. It never crossed my mind and I'll try this next time.

[@alfonsovargasmacias2926]

Thank you very much from Cádiz (South of Spain). I'm learning a lot from your videos. Congratulations.

[@45DegreesSailing]

You are most welcome! Thanks for watching.

[@SoundzAlive1]

Great Nick, you did it in windy conditions which most avoid for an instructional video. Your experience does shine through. Never had the luxury of a bow thruster. André in Sydney

[@45DegreesSailing]

I have had the pleasure of doing in many different winds during my time here in Croatia. And yes, I remember when bow thrusters were a novelty! Over here, most charter yachts over 45ft seem to have them. It's a different yachting world.

[@kgreltdtunnelgroutingeduca1861]

Hi Nick, great and useful clarifications, especially after I could positively verify the wind direction when you went into the berth (at 30 degrees aft of stb beam). I have never had to do what you demonstrate in the video, but as a skipper I always try to think about how things will develop, so allow me to test my spin on you. Coming in with so little clearance to the downwind boat, I would like to as far as possible stay parallel with that boat. Then I know that all fenders are doing their job fore and aft of the beam. In your case I will guess that unavoidably as soon as the boat stopped, your boat drifted down nicely onto the neighbour. I agree that the port (leeward ) stern line should go first and get tied ASAP, to prevent that the wind could start driving the boat forward AND that the gap between the two bows could get reduced due to more windage in the fore-ship. A short port stern line should counter such a tendency and keep the boats parallel. Right? In case the leeward boat were NOT there, could a quickly tied short upwind stern line and motoring forward against it (twin rudder boat) keep the bow from getting pushed to port (if necessary with some limited bow-thruster help), until the lazyline on the bow could be made? I am in doubt if that would succeed in such a wind?

[@45DegreesSailing]

Great question. And we have had to do this many times when coming to docks or slips in the winter with very few yachts around. The cross wind makes it very tough. With a single rudder, yes this is the answer, and with some bow thruster you can get some control, though in this much wind it is VERY hard to keep in control and is a limited time thing. SO, what I have previously done, especially when coming in solo, is actually come in alongside, bow into the wind (as there are not other yachts there) then get sterns lines on (along with a temporary bow line) then also get the lazy line and mooring line up and to the bow cleat while alongside. Then wind the boat out into stern to position. This way you already have the line there and control the bow whilst driving fwd against the stern line. Still a tough manoeuvre on your own, but with 2 persons very manageable.

[@45DegreesSailing]

With leaving the dock, if challenging conditions, keep you last control stern line on and bring it to your midship cleat or cockpit winch for releasing control, trail the line as you leave the berth until clear water, then leave cockpit to retrieve it. Not perfect... but have used this a few times when needed.

[@kevinbond3858]

Glad to hear it’s not just my heart that beats a bit faster when coming into my mooring. Good advice - really like these videos. Thanks.

[@45DegreesSailing]

Now worries Kevin. Thanks for watching!

[@LukaBendzo]

A very good insight regarding the windward vs leeward line in relation to whether the boat has a single/double rudder. With a single rudder I'd have intuitively thrown the windward line first as well. I'd have made the same move and requested 2 people on the dock so that I have two anchor points at the back ASAP. Then I'd pivot the bow into the wind by adjusting the length of the stern lines. With double rudder, I'd attempt to have as fast of an approach as possible and expect to lean on the "downwind" boat (portside your case). Fixating the leeward stern line first made this easier. Great job!

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@koroskaforever]

Very nice video and explanation Nick. It is good to know that I am not alone to have high heart rate when I am docking with sailing boat in a windy conditions. You are absolutely right about this, that is better to fix the leeward line first in such windy condition. When strong wind comes from the side, you need a lot of power to move the bow into the wind. Respect!

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks! Yes always a bit fearful. The day we lose respect for the sea and the weather is the day we should stop going to sea.

[@nixxonnor]

This is a very nice after action review. I support all your original actions and your following comments and judgements

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks Nixxon :)

[@beamreachingmarla]

Excellent tutorial once again. Sharing with all my boating associates and cruising clients.

[@45DegreesSailing]

Awesome, thank you! Appreciate that, we only grow when people share

[@SailingWaltraud]

Hi , Most times I am with short crew or single hand and I thing is the best an safest way to Look for a berth with a (bigger) boat on you leeside to lean against it. If you do it planned And controlled there will be no damage. Anyhow I always try to fix the windside line first but I think you are completely right and it is reasonable to fix the leeline first because you Can control the position to the next boat better! I will try it the next time, thanks for the tip. BR Thorsten

[@64Golfy]

Hi Nick great video thanks. The 46 went fine and then later in the season I took out a 51 ft from Murter. That boat was so different! It was like driving a semi trailer…really took a long time to stop the inertia and yet the wind also took it very fast. I am going to be in Trogir next week and I am taking a 41 ft Bavaria for a week. Love to grab a beer if you are in town?

[@45DegreesSailing]

That’s great Dilip! We will actually be all booked up. We set sail on the 45 Degrees Sailing ‘Sharpen Up’ Flotilla tomorrow for 7 days.

[@64Golfy]

Enjoy!

[@brucemcnair2]

Super well explained. Thanks

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks Bruce. Glad it was helpful

[@tedgayer336]

Man, thanks for this! I’m going to practice this with my own boat before arriving to charter in Croatia late summer!

[@45DegreesSailing]

No worries Ted. Let us know how it goes!

[@papaquant]

Very insightful video. One question - in many of your mooring videos you are not crossing the stern lines. In my experience this prevents the bow from going too much from side to side and also keeps the boat more steady, even in windy conditions.

[@skytechea70]

You know your stuff mate, nice one, good luck with the channel. Definitely one i will be watching for a very long time. Oh and you explained your actions very well. Nice one👍

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks. Will look out for your comments!

[@furrom152]

Thanks for the explanations! Now I almost regret not practicing docking in last weeks Bora!

[@45DegreesSailing]

Haha, yeh that was a good one! We sailed from Vrboska to Trogir in record time. Got up to 40knots coming off Brač, Hitting 9s and 10s all day. Loved it! How was your week?

[@furrom152]

@@45DegreesSailing We had four amazing days of sailing. Especially the leg from Komiza to Solta was fun in solid 5-6 winds. Great chance for my rather inexperienced crew to get a proper taste. Now I find myself back in the office and can't stop day dreaming of the next time to set sail!

[@dannytuckwood386]

Great video and explanation - took a while to grasp the leeward stern line concept but understand now!

[@45DegreesSailing]

Hey Danny. Glad it was helpful!

[@sethm7761]

At first I didn't understand why you would throw leeward first -- but that totally makes sense. It's basically: yes, normally windward first but in this case we just accept the fact that we will be resting on the leeward boat and securing the windward line first potentially means that the bow can twist into the leeward boat more... so instead of fighting that, we accept that and use it and secure leeward/immediately let ourselves rest on the boat. nifty -- definitely a skipper judgement call in the moment on whether to power on the windward line or just accept the rest As for the fear, there is a quote by Joseph Conrad that goes "A seaman laboring under an undue sense of security becomes at once worth hardly half his salt"

[@theespjames4114]

Its nice to have the security of a tender to control the bow

[@45DegreesSailing]

Absolutely. It’s not always available, and you may not get it unless you communicate with the marina. We didn’t need it this day, but very much a good piece of mind.

[@sigisgolbourne6781]

That was nice and cool man wel done

[@maggim1680]

Extremely helpful, thank you!

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks Maggi. You're most welcome!

[@jochemrebergen]

Nice one Nick! Really like this style of self-reflection documentary based on previous content! Still a lot to learn, haha, but as you said it: when you get over-confident, that’s when you make mistakes :) Thanks for sharing! Keep ‘m coming! 🙏🏻

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks! Will do!

[@mariterbrueggen2140]

Well done

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks Mari

[@ohridlakesailing5012]

Your videos are great,bravo.What if there was no boat at port side,the leeward with this wind direction,would You fix the leeward line first,or You will fix the windward?I think,anyway You should fix first the windward line,the boat has sufficient power plus the bowtrusters to turn the bow against the wind.

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks for that, working hard on them! Just wish I could film more and had more time to get more videos out! So interesting comment. The answer to which line if there was no yacht there is yes, the windward line, though I can tell you through many situations like this, the boat does not have enough power and control to turn the bow against the wind. For starters the yacht is twin rudder, so the thrust does not run over the rudder directly and provides much less directional control top steer the yacht to windward. Secondly, in this wind, the bow thruster realistically has about ... (this is estimate from experience) 5 or 6 continuous 5 second thrusts before the batteries start draining to far, and the thruster potentially can over heat and be then unusable. (again this a generalisation, some yachts are fitted with better equipment and more batteries) For me, the reality is in that wind, especially in a shorthanded case (not that this video was shorthanded) I would choose or request a berth where there is a boat to leeward. And if that if not possible, then come alongside first, secure, retrieve the appropriate mooring line and wind the yacht around into position. This was a 40knot day, so we had 25-28 from memory at hull level pushing on the beam.

[@alexpreiss1481]

The windward line has always priority everything else is bullshit! It doesn’t matter if twinrudder or singlerudder.

[@warrenmorgan7969]

Of course winds in the marina are more manageable. My instruction to the assisting rib is to be sharpish with passing bow crew the lazy line because once you're secured bow and stern then control and stability is far greater. additional lines are added to match conditions and risk. adjustment of bow and stern tension to provide stability is then the task before declaration of ALL IS FINE. I agrre certainly. always brief the crew on the plan , the risk and what their role is

[@45DegreesSailing]

Absolutely, briefing is key.

[@observer2172]

Always windward stern line first? Lee line is of no use as your going to lay on the lee side boat anyway, so at least ensure some relief by pushing against windward one. I straight away stop ample distance from pier and come closer on engine easing the morning lines if needed. The narrow older marinas like ACI Split or Korčula are a nightmare in anything above 18-20kt.

[@sailingcitrinesunset4065]

You did very well and made it look easy 👏 nice work 👍

[@45DegreesSailing]

Sometimes its easy, sometimes its a nightmare haha

[@Osuruktan_teyyare]

Hi Nick, thanks a lot! great explanation of why you did what you did step by step. You said that you prefer resting on the boat on portside because you would end up there anyway. Is it because of very high wind speed? If I were in this situation, I would imagine tying the windward lines first and then do full starboard with forward throttle. Wouldn’t the boat then rest on the boat on starboard side despite the high wind speed?

[@45DegreesSailing]

Hey @evocan. In a normal situation I possibly would do this also. Though here, yes the high wind speeds were going to put me on the port boat no matter what, and especially considering this is a twin rudder yacht. So even with full throttle ahead you cannot combat the wind, and the helm to starboard effectively does nothing as the flow is not over the rudder directly.

[@Osuruktan_teyyare]

@@45DegreesSailing Hi Nick thanks a lot for your quick response. There is one thing that is not clear to me, maybe because of my lack of knowledge. Once you give starboard full ahead, I would imagine you would have flow over the rudder. Is the flow‘s not being directly over the rudder a thing related to the twin rudder? If not why is the flow not over the rudder directly?

[@45DegreesSailing]

@@Osuruktan_teyyare yes that’s right. Twin rudder yachts the prop is still on the middle. So there is no flow over the rudder. It flows between the two.

[@Osuruktan_teyyare]

@@45DegreesSailing Cheers for the answer. Now it is all clear to me. Have a great summer full of fun in Croatia.

[@cameroncollins9241]

Cheers mate

[@45DegreesSailing]

Most welcome mate

[@LukaBendzo]

Nick, I just re-watched the video. I wonder how would your manoeuvring change if the wind was not on the bow, but blowing as hard from starboard? In sometimes very narrow channels between two piers in Croatian marinas, I see the challenge in your bow being pushed towards where your berth is, meaning your boat will constantly be turning the wrong way. I'd love your input on this.

[@MrMediterrano]

What is the biggest boat one could sail and dock/undock solo, even at strong winds, provided that all necessary gear is present (furling sails, self-tacking sails, bow thruster, auto-pilot, remote-controlled windlass etc)?

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thats a quite subjective question! So, for me personally I regularly singlehand up to 60ft sailing yachts. With or without all the toys you listed! I think for me, I would not do much bigger than that on all conditions. I would be happy handling a 70/80 ft yacht of certain configuration. Docking in the right conditions, and would not risk the damage of doing it solo in the wrong conditions.

[@MrMediterrano]

@@45DegreesSailing the problem is that if the conditions get bad, it’s when you need to dock the most.

[@45DegreesSailing]

Sometimes yes@@MrMediterrano, planning is often key to that. Also, in the few times that may happen, you can radio the dock/marina for assistance on the dock. Even ask for a body onboard to help out. There is always options. And still you need to understand you abilities. I may not choose to dock a 70ft on my own in adverse conditions. You might have the skill and familiarity with that vessel to do so. If not, sail within your means. Drop down to 45-55ft that is easily manageable solo.

[@ZZgrisuZZ]

Hi Nick! Thanks for the great video! Still I am wondering about why you are doing the leeward line first. In the video, you are saying because you would go to port anyway. My experience is that even in strong winds and with 2-rudder, due to the triangel of forces, the boat will go to the starbord side with the windward line secured and foward engine. Even if not, there is nor reason why to secure the leeward line first, if needed, it is just the wrong line. Could you explain more in detail? Thanks! Christian

[@allanfinnfrankable]

I thought the same. I think because his boat was leaning already against the neighbor safe it doesn’t matter where its connected. He just wanted to have it fixed to the ground. Then you still can use the ruder to steer the front into the wind, even with 2 Rudders and reduced prob wash. What he did. He did a steaming into the wind at the end. He just didn’t want to get blown out again, because the wind was coming from the side and from the stern.

[@michaelbewza2998]

OK. I knew you were decently good. BTW, from me, that's big praise. Thanks for quick response.

[@45DegreesSailing]

Most welcome

[@vedro4]

Any more differences between single and twin rudder set-up? Cool video btw.

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks Vedro. Twin rudders are certainly lighter on the helm at times when under sail etc. Though the rudders being out pf the slip stream of the keel makes them more susceptible to damage from debris. Shallower draft at the stern can be helpful for some docks/bays. Under power I do not feel they are quite as responsive or definite in reverse as a single rudder.

[@vedro4]

@@45DegreesSailing Considering this, do you think it affects getting off a dock using aft spring line for example?

[@45DegreesSailing]

So using a bow spring and driving fwd against it to rotate the stern out it greatly affects it. Using a stern spring and powering in reverse the effect is about the same as you are not pushing thrust over me the rudder anyway.

[@sailingcitrinesunset4065]

Nice video 👍

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks 👍

[@freelectron2029]

impressive

[@45DegreesSailing]

Thanks!

[@sascha_sailing]

Hello, i'm "someone" ;) Thank you very much for this video and your effort

[@45DegreesSailing]

Haha, you are indeed. No worries. Did that answer all the questions?

[@sascha_sailing]

@@45DegreesSailing Hehe, questions are answerd. As you said, we still dont agree in all aspects, but hey thats sailing, 3 skippers - 4 oppionions ;) Thank you again!

[@rosscirkovic3058]

Excellent video, great advice, I hope I'll never have to use it 😂

[@45DegreesSailing]

Haha mate. It’s good fun when it’s not your yacht! … well once you are tied up safely it was good fun 🤩

[@captain34ca]

is there any place outside the Mediterranean where stern to mooring is ever done?

[@45DegreesSailing]

not many places no. Similar ideas with a mooring ball out front and lines to the dock at the stern in the Caribbean and a few other spots. Can only really work in places with minimal tidal range

[@captain34ca]

@@45DegreesSailing I sail in places with really big tidal ranges (pacific coast from Mexico to Alaska) and have never moored like that. Sometimes 2 anchors and a line to shore. It's good method to know if I manage to get to the Med though.

[@45DegreesSailing]

@@captain34ca that sounds awesome! Like New Zealand we would do that also. Yes it can be a bit intimidating the first couple times in a tight marina on a windy day. Great once you get it dialed though

[@michaelbewza2998]

Just a thought. Got any interest in 3 old dudes who have been sailing together for about 30 years? No multihull experience. Would like some actually.

[@45DegreesSailing]

Always interested. Can organise a call if you like and see if there is a fit.

[@redboyns]

"The day you think that you just got this and it's easy, that's the day you're gonna make the mistake!" 🙏

[@45DegreesSailing]

I had to go back and check if I said that! Not bad... ;) thanks for watching.

[@redboyns]

@@45DegreesSailing Thank you for great content on this channel. Keep up the great work.🤙

[@45DegreesSailing]

@@redboyns will do

[@micokastela]

Love it, when are we going to head out at night for you to talk through that again?

[@45DegreesSailing]

Well. That would need to be put in the calendar.

[@andrew6274]

look like 15-20kn max

[@45DegreesSailing]

Looks can be deceiving huh?