469 The new Wi-Fi on 60GHz: 1Gbit/s throughput in each direction. How far will it go?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Fascinating video about the details of the used chips: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gHqcl6l3mLOjms0si=J3PyQPMGsBvsu31g

[@l0I0I0I0]

Would love to find a high res security camera that has an angle no less than 270 degree, but on the cheap. Any recommendations?

[@juliusvalentinas]

welcome to the cancer wifi, or no that was last gen, this is oxygen deprivation google it.

[@djtopherau]

My old workplace used the round 60ghz microtik dishes for PTP and PTMP connections for CCTV cameras over a large city municipality. They have a special view port that allows you to look down the dish for alignment. 2 points to make, so because of the way the transmissions work, its more akin to a donut or lobe then a laser, so sometimes pointing them exactly at each other actually means you don't have the best connection, and this is how the second point comes to play, the alignment stats that microtik supply are done by sending data through the link, they then check the power level based on beam forming from both sides, and work backwards to tell you how much correction you need to preform on each side.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the clarification!

[@aaronpower8741]

I use the Ubiquiti 60GHz long range links in my job. We get just under Gb (around 900Mb from memory) over 2.8km in a license-free radio that costs less then AUD $1,000 a pair. But he best thing is the lack of interference. Even if there are other other radios in the area, they use such a narrow beam that the interference would need to also be almost exactly in line to cause problems. They have been super stable and operating in a 24x7 industrial environment for about 2 years now. Love 'em.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I assume, you also have no snowfall in your area ;-)

[@aaronpower8741]

@@AndreasSpiess LOL. Plenty of 40C days, but no, not much snow. The link does hold up through some fairly heavy storms though. I expect the max throughput probably drops, but the link stays up.

[@UloPe]

Those types of devices use beam forming array antennas, this is also how they can provide the alignment information.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Good to know, thanks. My colleague took one appart and told me that they are covered with glue. So I did not want to destroy one just to see nothing ;-)

[@meinsda5983]

@@AndreasSpiess if Andreas tells me he want more infos about this system a defect one lay on my windowsill over a year before i open it and waste it.... two weeks before

[@ahaveland]

@@AndreasSpiess At 5 mm, there will be many antennae to form a phased array to create a directional wavefront, much like a starlink antenna, and there are a few teardowns of those on KZbin. How they can vary the phase differences for all the elements precisely by fractions of picoseconds to be able to do this is still a mystery.

[@skinkie]

@@ahaveland a memory buffer, linear algebra and an FPGA? ;-)

[@dan-nutu]

@@skinkie this would make for a very interesting video if you want to make one ;-)

[@XRinger]

Back in the old days, at the MIT Antenna Test Range, we used rifle Scopes attached to our test antennas. mostly between 10 and 30 GHz. These days, people use red dot sights made for weapons, to aim telescopes at stars or planets they want to see using the telescope. A red dot sight is much smaller than a rifle scope and is useful at night and day. If it's got auto-off, the battery lasts for years. The X and Y adjustments on a scope and RDS allow for calibration.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I remember this red dot thing mounted on a rifle from when I was in the Lebanon war zone in 1982 working for the red cross... I am sure it would be better than a standard binocular.

[@veryboringname.]

@@AndreasSpiess Your past life sounds interesting! You should make a video about it some day.

[@Agni_Puthra]

Ah! I always learn something new whenever I watch your videos. This particular one taught me a lot of things I didn't know till now!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Great to hear!

[@petittoto7433]

13:05 Correction : "I tested it but living in Switzerland I cannot tell you the result" 🙂

[@AndreasSpiess]

:-))

[@dasgibmekker768]

That's what I heard, too... 😂

[@rickb3288]

Great job Andreas. Though I was a network engineer in the distant past, I was not familiar with the tech of today. Thanks for creating this presentation.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome! Indeed, things move fast in the direction of higher frequencies...

[@Rai_Te]

Hi Andreas, as always highly informative and quite entertaining. Well done!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@ulrikhy-petersen6982]

Great video for starters. We just purchased a set and depending on the experiences we will proceed and try out the Cube SA 60Pro that can provide Point-to-Multipoint connection with of to 8 units of the ac units. Interesting technology.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Its opening angle is quite small for bigger distances. But it works!

[@Thesignalpath]

On my channel you can find a complete teardown, theory of operation as well as a look at the integrated circuits which accomplish the beam-steering functions. I'd provide the link, but KZbin seems to remove them.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Very good! I am a Patreon on your channel, so you can send me the link there and I will post it in the description.

[@Thesignalpath]

@@AndreasSpiess Thank you, I appreciate your support of the channel and glad to see that your presence on KZbin has continued to grow! The name of the episode on my channel is: "TSP #207 - Teardown & Detailed Analysis of Qualcomm's 60GHz Multi-Panel Phased Array WiGig System". Hopefully that is easy to find.

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@Thesignalpath I watched it now and left a link in my video description. A very informative video (as always). Last year, 60GHz was probably above my interest ;-)

[@Taki7o7]

Thanks for making our sunday so nice ♥

[@AndreasSpiess]

My pleasure!

[@MegaCyklops]

You are allowed to use Ch5&6 in the CEPT/EU, the vendors are just too lazy to update it. I've got it on paper that i'm allowed to use the band up to 71Ghz from our regulator because of an EU regulation.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Good to know, thanks! Maybe you post a search string that leads to this document? (KZbin deletes comments with links)

[@dan-nutu]

It sounds like Lisa might have correspondence from the regulator, e.g. a letter with a response for her. Just a guess, I could be way wrong

[@johannes9386]

​@@AndreasSpiessSearch: COMMISSION IMPLEMENTING DECISION (EU) 2022/180 Apart from the fact that 57 to 71GHz are listed here, this is a very interesting document.

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@johannes9386 Thank you for the link!

[@VitaliySunny]

I am the owner of a pair of Ubiquiti AF-60 (not the long range version), I have been using PtP for 2.5 years, the flight is excellent. Connects to 60 GHz, has a 5 GHz link for antenna communication. With correct installation and position settings, the speed reaches maximum for this equipment - 930-950 Mbit/s (ping 1-3 ms, duplex, sunny day, 600 meters, line of sight). During rain or heavy snow, speed drops slightly. I have never encountered such weather conditions under which communication would be completely lost. I had about 3 years of experience with Ubiquiti NanoStation Loco M2, but 2.4 Ghz and wide antenna angle did not suit for me, otherwise PtP equipment is wonderful.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@originalmianos]

How cool is MikroTik. Real European stuff from Latvia and incredible value for money. I have a few of their RouterOS devices and the are insanely functional. At least 100 pages of menus yet you don't even use the UI for the complex stuff. The command line stuff is crazy like a Cisco core router. Interesting to note that some of those CIA exploits leaked had RouterOS exploits, probably targetting Russia as they don't trust the equipment with firmware from the US of A. (All the exploits listed were closed as soon as they saw them).

[@AndreasSpiess]

Indeed, routerOS is very capable. I standardized on Mikrotik because my knowhow is re-usable for many different devices...

[@remy44444]

Amazing! Remind me the first days of the channel!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad to hear that!

[@RobertJochim]

Some AREDN (Amateur Radio Emergency Data Network) installations are already utilizing MikroTik 60 GHz radios here in the US. 🙂

[@AndreasSpiess]

Good to know. Are these Cubes already supported? I did not know that.

[@veryboringname.]

It's amusing how many youtubers have to hide their home address from the internet to avoid weirdos showing up while on the other hand you don't mind directly showing us your location on google maps. You've got a much nicer community here!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Indeed, the community here is outstanding!

[@stepheneyles2198]

That's amazing! Thank you for explaining them and the way they operate. Unfortunately I haven't got an application for them at present, but at least I know about them now! 😊 Edit: it would be nice if they had allen screws on the mounts to make alignment easier.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I asssume that every cent counted when they built this (relatively cheap) product...

[@GeoffHou]

Thanks for this info. I knew about the Ubiquiti airfiber and airmax products but even the airmax products with a similar range are almost double the price. They might use different antennas however.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Indeed, Ubiquity sells similar products (I thought, I mentioned it, but I am not sure). Mikrotik in general operates at a very good price point. This is why I use their gear.

[@UloPe]

The ubiquity gigabeam range is in a similar price bracket though

[@James_Knott]

Years ago, I used to work with DragonWave equipment, which was available for both licensed and unlicensed bands. I also did some work with Ceragon unlicensed gear.

[@andrew-in-australia]

The radios that MikroTik puts in their 60GHz devices have a small (16x16 I believe?) beamforming antenna array which it cycles through positions for. You can see more info on what 'sector' of the antenna is in use in the screen you were looking at (or by using in terminal "/interface w60 monitor ") but this is in short, how the recommended direction is given in the winbox UI

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thanks for the additional info. You are right. I included a link to a video that is showing all the details of the design.

[@vladimirmihajlovic1504]

Equation shown on 1:30 is actually wrong. Channel capacity is determined by Shannon-Hartley theorem, which states Cs = B * log2(1 + S/N), where Cs - channel capacity, B - bandwidth, S/N - ratio of signal to noise. Given efficient modulation this can be rewritten as Cs = B * log2(M), where M is number of states during single time period (T = 1/(2B)). So, there is no factor 2. Nyquist theorem does play a role in the S-H derivation, and term 2 does appear at one point, but it is cancelled out by Cs per symbol which is Cs = 1/2 log2(1 + S/N). Full derivation for Cs is a bit involved for YT comment. In short it is grounded in probability theory - Cs is maximum mutual information for given signal level and additive white gausian noise (with given variance/power for AWGN).

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your explanation. I learned these things long-time ago and forgot them. This is why I added the source of the formula. Now we can complain there. However, my statement, fortunately, is still supported by your formula.

[@vladimirmihajlovic1504]

Thank You for the wonderful content (and this response). Videos are very well thought out and informative. Keep up great work. I forget these things as well, but by coincidence I did go through this specific derivation recently as I was brushing up my knowledge of prob theory. Link provided in the video simply leads to university site, if you could provide specific link I'll take a look. Discrepancy is in the factor if 2 I believe.

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@vladimirmihajlovic1504 I cannot post links here. But you should find it if you google "Noise, Data Rate and Frequency Bandwidth"

[@vladimirmihajlovic1504]

@@AndreasSpiess Just read the page (Morikawa) - and I am afraid that (from formal perspective) its reasoning line is flawed in more than one way. But most obviously -- it fails to apply the very formula that is established at the start of page (Cs = 2B log2 M) in Example 3 (right after "Answer: " line). There you'll see the line stating Cs = B log2 M. It omits the factor 2 by mistake and gets two formulas to agree (while they don't).

[@Wirelessinfopuntbe]

A great video Andreas. This is awesome. Greatings Jean-Pierre

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thanks for your support! Without you, I would have had a lot of problems!

[@klassichd10]

Thanks very much! Interesting 60GHz for home use. 77GHz is now common for automotive radars.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome! I assume that because of the 77GHz chips for cars, this 60GHz tech became affortable...

[@meinsda5983]

60GHz is not useable for home use! every wall has to much damping. 60GHz is realy for a ptp system. Yes you can use it with more then one client but in the configuration you have a ptp

[@klassichd10]

@@AndreasSpiess Probably yes. These helpful devices are produced in large quantities.

[@klassichd10]

@@meinsda5983 For me, home use is not identical to indoor use.

[@richard_wenner]

Stunning how quickly technology is developing but it also caused me consider WHO I could trust to reposition the remote end for me. Just musing.

[@AndreasSpiess]

A valid point. Particularly for me without friends and wife ;-)

[@AndreasB-p8w]

For good alignment one could use mirrors (you can see yourself in a mirror) and self printed targets, you could also use a "Prisma Reflektor" which is a device with a certain mirror assembly being able to reflect all light back into the same direction of origin. A semitranslucent mirror assembly also known as a beam splitter also helps,

[@railgap]

You mean retroreflector, and they are the opposite of what you want when aligning anything.

[@WagonLoads]

Isn't that a corner cube? Wouldn't a bike reflector do that? You could see when you hit the reflector with a laser. You just need alignment screws to align the laser with the antenna after the antennas are originally aligned for max signal strength(The same way the viewfinder scope is aligned with the main telescope).., then the laser will guide on all future alignments..

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not understand exacly. But if you need to leave the second device unattended in the woods, I am out ;-)

[@WagonLoads]

@@AndreasSpiess IN your video, you had one antenna in your window. and you setup the remote end next to a park bench... If there is a post near the bench, put a bike reflector on the post at the same height the antenna would be on your tripod. If there is no post, maybe you can mount the reflector on the end of the park bench.. Aim your home unit at the (post/bench) reflector, then when you get to the park, put your tripod antenna reflector in the path of the beam that is hitting the post.. Then aim the park antenna laser at the home reflector..

[@Alan_Stinchcombe]

​@@AndreasSpiessTry up a tree? 😅

[@RXP91]

Excellent vid and information thanks! I've always been interested in hooking up two separate houses via a wireless link. In 2023 though with the new operators providing fiber to the home I now have 1gbps upload and my desire for doing it has massively reduced cause the speed between internet connections is so great.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Indeed, fiber is a very good technology (I am still waiting for it).

[@Guishan_Lingyou]

My neighbor has been generously allowing me to use his WiFi for quite a long time. When fiber arrives in my neighborhood I will get my own service and offer to return the favor to my neighbor. Something like the units featured in this video might be helpful.

[@wizardy6267]

very interesting topic, thanks for your knowledge sharing.

[@AndreasSpiess]

My pleasure!

[@Akash.Chopra]

Great info, thank you! The range of 6ghz is less than half of 2.4ghz when using a shared antenna. I cant imagine how low the range is with 60ghz, unless you use a much, much larger antenna. That said, I get more than 1.2gbps down as well as up on my 6ghz router, albiet with a much smaller range than 2.4ghz.

[@AndreasSpiess]

The 60GHz antennas are much smaller for th same performance, fortunately. Still, you saw how far it goes. Not like 5.8GHz where we bridge 50km...

[@1globe]

Great episode and a new technology for me. Opens territory and is a bit mind-boggling, actually! 👏👍

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thanks!

[@anoknskyle2243]

If I'm not mistaken, Ubiquiti sells "Wave" brand 60 GHz gear in the EU which works on channels 5 and 6. They claim a maximum range of up to 12 km on channel 6 with their highest-gain equipment (the Wave LR, I think). Maybe if you want to test higher channel performance, you could use a pair of those?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your information. Another commenter wrote that channels 5 and 6 are also allowed in the EU now. But I am not sure.

[@utubota5522]

Thanks, this was great info, and i already have a project in mind.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jacquesmertens3369]

This video doesn't have a cat in it to confirm the scientific results. But it's fascinating technology. Thanks for sharing.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Great point!

[@Zeusbeer]

This also sounds interesting for short range applications, for something like a VR headset wireless link

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree. Because these devices seem to produce quite some data rate...

[@meinsda5983]

yes they use them for VR headsets but it is only useable for one room!

[@Zeusbeer]

@@meinsda5983 thats ok

[@glasslinger]

@@meinsda5983 Until a fat guy walks between you and the transmitter! :)

[@Krakkel]

MikroTik makes some really good equipment

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree

[@meanxmeanx1763]

Regarding the angle measurement, it can use some UWB trick i.e. it checks the difference in time at which the signal is reaching the different antennas. 2 antennas = flat angle, 4 antennas = elevation + angle.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I added a link to "The Signal Path" where he shows the internals of the design.

[@favesongslist]

This may be a good project to add servos, similar to the Starlink receivers to enable to seek for the best connectivity.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Probably not so easy. Elons satellites move in defined circles. I move wherever I want with my second station ;-)

[@favesongslist]

@@AndreasSpiess As long as it is roughly in the right direction to home in to the best strength for the 5.4 Channels it may be possible to give a fair coverage angle for the WiGig signal?

[@azbesthu]

I just ordered an old 18260NGW E-key card, just to be able to test my m.2 E slots if they have 2 x1 pcie lane. Only a few card utilitize both x1 lanes, some WiGig cards and the dual corel accelerator card.

[@jmr]

900mhz was my first wireless network. Not ideal for speed but back then before WiFi it was still very cool.

[@AndreasSpiess]

900MHz still has some advantages over the higher frequencies. It seems it better travels across water than higher frequencies. At least this is what HAM radio operators found out when they wanted to steer remote stations on an ismland from a ship...

[@jmr]

@@AndreasSpiess Very true and it has been added to the WiFi standard in the form of HaLow. I don't think it's going to become commonplace because of ZigBee, LoRa and Thread. Too much competition there.

[@James_Knott]

I also remember when infrared was going to be used for wireless. Many notebook computers came with it. One thing I recall, from my work at IBM, was that IBM ThinkPads supported twice the data rate of Toshiba computers. 🙂

[@jmr]

@@James_Knott It's funny because everything old is new again. Have you heard of LiFi? I really wish we still had IR transmitters in phones. It was a nice feature.

[@James_Knott]

@@jmr Yes, I have heard of LiFi. While I don't recall IR in phones, I certainly to in notebook computers. Back in the late 90s, I worked at IBM Canada, doing 3rd level support and most of my work was on ThinkPads. One product I supported was the software for doing presentations. The presenter would have a remote that used IR to control their presentation. Back then, USB was just getting started and WiFi was still pre 802.11b legacy.

[@jakedillingham]

That was fantastic, thank you so much that’s really interesting!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@BerndFelsche]

With good sky, GPS and compass ought to work well for an initial alignment.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Also a possibility. Because it has to be line of sight, and the "cube" design, a binocular was a quick and easy solution.

[@simskog95]

802.11ay should deliver up to 40Gb/s per channel on 60GHz. But the standard is new and there are no devices that suports it.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Good th onow. I also assume that the pricepoint of faster devices would be higher (and much less interesting for most of us).

[@IMBlakeley]

I put in a few 5.8ghz links for a few customers 1km was fine had one customer wanted 10km far to much interference only worked with the power well above the legal limit.

[@AndreasSpiess]

HAM radio operators operate many 5.8GHz links wewll above 10km using standard gear (Google "hamnet") But we use only lower-speed channels.

[@IMBlakeley]

@@AndreasSpiess This was in Indonesia, very crowded band and not helped by many AP being active in the wrong part of the band.

[@Chris-ut6eq]

Thank you for all the great information!

[@AndreasSpiess]

My pleasure!

[@williamwatson1532]

Super video, Adreas. I had no idea this next step up wifi😅 technology already existed.

[@AndreasSpiess]

It was the same here. That was the reason I made this video.

[@meinsda5983]

60GHz technology is for outdoor ptp use only. Not useable for broadcast systems. You must see your client on the other side.

[@dan-nutu]

The video was definitely interesting (thanks!) and as a bonus it also had a couple of unexpected jokes thrown in :) 3:48 "Oxygen still has its high absorption" 7:52 "It is in Dutch but you should be able to follow it" In the same vein I'd add: 10:07 "Use binoculars for an initial setup and and place once person at each station to do the small adjustments" - and be prepared to yell pretty hard if you don't already have another means of radio communication working in that place :) 4:50 Just like you also said towards the end of the clip (12:44) I guess "channel 5 support" is if the country you use this in allows channel 5 to be used in addition to channels 1-4 (5:50), maybe to do channel bonding and increase bandwidth.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thanks for the compliment for my jokes :-) Concerning channel bonding. I assume they can transfer much more in one 2.1GHz channel (these are only the first implementations). So channel bonding will not be needed for a long time

[@matthewfelgate]

Thanks for sharing this video because it was informative.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@TurpInTexas]

I have a workshop behind my house and wanted high speed internet access. Thought about installing a fiber but decided to go with an EnGenius 5Ghz system to start with. As the hop distance was only about 75 feet, the receivers on both ends suffered from overloading (-17dBm) the the through rate was very poor, around 5 to 6 Mb. I covered one link with a metal mesh cloth which attenuated the sigal to around -60dBm) and the through rate improved dramatically to around 300Mb. As I use both 2.4 and 5GHz on my home wifi system, the 5GHz link caused some issues so I decided to switch over to a Ubiquiti 60GHz system, each unit running around $100 US. Install was quick since I could reuse the wiring, so only had to swap out the units. Data rates now are cover 800Mb consistently and no more interference issues.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I think, yours is a very good use case.

[@TheMason76]

Danke für dieses schöne Video. Echt schön gemacht. Danke "Guy wis se swiss aksend" 🙂

[@AndreasSpiess]

Gern geschehen!

[@wjn777]

Very interesting video and thank you for sharing

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@hi-tech-guy-1823]

Wasn't just microwaves but aslo a Few High-intensity discharge lamps like to Scream RF Noise also in the 2.0Ghz Range

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the info!

[@nutsnproud6932]

My local supermarket uses something similar. There is a petrol station 400m from the main building and they use a radio microwave link so the petrol pumps can authorise your credit card.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Well possible. It is a perfect use case for such technology.

[@LackofFaithify]

Another good helper to line these types of equipment is a high power green laser pointer. Tape it down and on, then do a quick trip to the other end, find the dot, and there ya go.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the info!

[@spicybaguette7706]

Honestly, with the amount of challenges its a technological wonder that wifi functions as well as it does. But I'm guessing mobile networks like LTE and 5G are more capable due to reduced interference on the commercial bands

[@James_Knott]

The cell networks are also on licensed bands, which means you can't just fire up a transmitter on your own. Yeah, I know they also can operate on the 5 GHz unlicensed band.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Indeed, in the licensed bands authorities have to guarantee that there are no interferences. This is why there is hard punishment for people emitting radio singals in most countries.

[@silverian]

Thank You for Wi-fi 60GHz knowledge!

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@sativagirl1885]

Q: Can the two devices 'sight' each other and auto-focus for best signal strength?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I did not experience such behavior

[@favesongslist]

I guess they would need servos just like the Starlink receivers seek for the best connectivity.

[@electronichome1153]

Many thansk for the great topic and explanation

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@Valenorious]

For aligning the 60Ghz antennas, they have a cube/rectangular box enclosure, right? Can't you look along the side of the enclosure (or that hood above it) and aim it until the site is no longer obscured by it. And do that again along the top edge of the enclosure. The back to front length is around 10 cm if I read the specs correct. Then for 11 degrees alignment margin you get a slope of .19, or the line of sight along the box should be within 2 cm from the front edge of the enclosure.

[@AndreasSpiess]

1.5km was too far for my eyes. This is why I had to use a binocular.

[@Francois_Dupont]

Thank you! as always i learn alot of things.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad to hear it!

Hi, nice video I finally found out why were chosen 2.4 and 60GHz frequencies. Could you also focus on the opposite side of IEEE 802.11? I am facing vegetation on small distance (600m), I was thinking about WiFi HaLow 802.11ah (sub gigahertz wifi). You can buy it is aliexpress, but I don't know how it is compliance with EU usage...

[@AndreasSpiess]

HaLow is only interesting in the US because their 900 MHz band is much wider than the 868 MHz band in Europe. So I have no plans to cover it.

[@ruben_balea]

Idra called its largest presses Giga Press and it simply coincided that Tesla bought the first unit they manufactured, but they are called Giga Press or GigaPress regardless of the customer, there are several car brands that use them. But you can be sure Elon loved that name!

[@AndreasSpiess]

I heard the story the other way round: Elon asked a few manufacturers for extremely stong and large presses and only Idra answered. Maybe only rumors.

[@xcruell]

I can already feel the cancer cells growing inside my whole body, just by thinking about it.

[@flexairz]

No they won't. Radio spectrum is non-ionizing radiation. You have a greater chance for cancer by sitting in the sun light. Physics my friend.

[@AndreasSpiess]

No worries. I am still alive...

[@xcruell]

​@@AndreasSpiess Gott sei Dank!

[@ralphj4012]

Interesting. As well as alignment, I wonder whether there are any fresnel zone effects (I did briefly scan the manual and couldn't see any suggested minimum height above ground).

[@Francois_Dupont]

all RF link will have a freshnel zone, but like he said: if the signal is 5cm or something the fresnel zone might only be 1m big.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree with @hitachi088

[@benverdel3073]

A very interresting product. Because of the small outline it should stay stable in high winds. As you live in Der Schweiz. Maybe one of your watch makers can manufacture a nice Yagi antenna for it (hihi). Still wondering though if ig could scramble speed radars. That'd be fun. Looking forward to your next video.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I assume the speed radars do not work in the ISM bands...

[@markshade8398]

I expect these are VERY directional. Meaning, aim and line of sight will be critical. Even just a tiny bit off on the aim and the speed/quality will go down quickly.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right!

[@plenus7392]

Using 5.8 with mikrotik proprietary wireless protocols we reach gigabit on PTP links at 5-8km 27dbi dishes

[@AndreasSpiess]

Very fast! We also use such gear for long distance connectons, but with a smaller bandwidth.

[@plenus7392]

@@AndreasSpiess oh! I was not expecting a response, thank you for taking the time, you probably already know, but the least I can do is gift a tip: self-fusing tape on outdoor coaxial joints or wire splicing, this stuff is magic, weather resistant, waterproof, and crazy electrical insulation, but don't expect to remove it, because it almost solders itself hahaha, cheers from BR 🇧🇷🙏

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@plenus7392 I anser all comments ;-) And thanks for the tip. I am a HAM radio operator, and we use these tapes all the time. BTW: If you google AREDN (or watch my second HAM radio channel) you see where we use these 5.8GHz links.

[@markarca6360]

Technically it is IEEE 802.11ad and/or 802.11ay. The decrease in the actual bandwidth is due to the rain fade, as well as the distance between the two radios.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree with your analysis.

[@AlexanderMeier-iw7bz]

#FavoriteEpisode Learned more of frequency, bandwidth, and technology including but not limited to bandwidth formula. Question: Please, which sofware program used to measure "correct aim alignment of signal" ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

All the needed software is built-in in Mikrotiks (free) winbox management software.

[@Syncere20]

I live in Florida where there could be a lightning storm 2 miles away but Sunny where I'm at I wonder if this would affect the performance of that unit

[@AndreasSpiess]

Heavy rain seems to reduce the possible range. Winds not.

[@ehsnils]

We run a 60GHz link at work since about 2 years and it's about 1km, and it works reasonably well - until it starts to snow heavily.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Good to know. Thanks for sharing your experience!

[@Openspeedtest]

Very informative.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@RicardoLescano]

interesante util mas cuando estamos del otro lado del planeta gracias!!!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Indeed!

[@brylozketrzyn]

First pre-standard devices actually used 915MHz band in NA but they were slow

[@AndreasSpiess]

Good to know. Unfortunately, the 900MHz band in Europe is not ISM. Our 868 band is too narrow to be used for Wi-Fi...

[@hagei406]

We have such a link , airfibre from ubiquiti , ran for a couple of years failure free 1.5 KM between 2 companies from 2014 to, afaik, 2019. Well that one was more more pricy and very high power consumption

[@AndreasSpiess]

I was not aware that they were already available in 2014. For sure, this was a new tech back then with high price and high power consumtion. Still, it solved youir problem!

[@zaprodk]

They use beam steering technology, and that is how it can show you how to align the antenna.

[@ehsnils]

From what I understand the antenna actually has a matrix of small antennas on a chip, but I haven't taken one apart to see. My experience is with the Mikrotik Wireless Wire nRAY which I think works pretty well.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I added a link to a video from "The Signal Path" where he tears everything apart and explains the details.

[@bluearcherx]

been using Mikrotik wireless wire 60GHz for years to my detached garage. 1 Gbps throughput all day, rain or shine. Should work up to 660 ft / 200m at least

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thanks for sharing your experience!

[@SandroLuccini]

Hello Andreas, good video! Do you need the devices or could you sell them? Bye from Bellinzona

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not need them for the moment.

[@Ownedyou]

Love it! Dishka didn't feel like helping out with the aligment?

[@AndreasSpiess]

She was too tired and slept the whole day. She only was interested when she got caressed ;-)

[@PhG1961]

Amazing product and at a very afordable price! Where is this going to... ;) How convenient a refering video in Dutch...

[@AndreasSpiess]

I think, this was the first video in Duch language I ever watched till the end ;-)

[@PhG1961]

@@AndreasSpiess Lol, but I guess you noticed there are some similarities with German !

[@christopherleubner6633]

One fun thing you can do is expose oxygen to this frequency and it will convert some of it to singlet oxygen. If this is immediately used in a torch the heat generated is a lot more intense.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I am an electronics engineer, not a chemist ;-)

[@AaaBbb-bc4hq]

suggests adding an offset dish antenna and keeping your head away from the main beam :)

[@AndreasSpiess]

I like that these antennas are so small. But no worries, I will not hurt myself ;-)

[@clairettedelportr1476]

Hi Andreas, I do love your videos. What about high side switch/fuse, ie Infineon BTS50010-1TAD one ? Regards

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know this product :-(

[@clairettedelportr1476]

@AndreasSpiess they seem to be a great solution to replace relays, able to manage about 30A high side in automotive (positive, solving grounding problems) and to mesure current at the same time, shorting and temperature protected. I just discovered them, they're probably recent

[@DozIT]

Unifi has been doing 60 GHz links with 1-2.5 Gbps over 12+ km for years, it’s a great product!

[@AndreasSpiess]

In the ISM band? That is interesting because the allowed power is not very high...

[@DozIT]

@@AndreasSpiess no idea what band, but one of the product SKU’s are AF60-LR I’ve used the UBB @ 60 Hz but that’s only suitable up to ~1km

[@ANDREA-y3s5u]

hi andreas, nice video, the antennas are already pre-configured right? you don't need to do anything just connect them?

[@AndreasSpiess]

No, mine were not. This is why I left a link to a video where it is shown.

[@eliseomoran7388]

Would be interesting to align the equipment with a laser.

[@dan-nutu]

But not with a laser *and* binoculars! 😄 If OTOH you have a laser that can still be seen without optical aids at that distance... I wouldn't want to be at the "receiving end", looking into it!

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree, 1.5km is quite hard to see without binoculars.

[@TonyFarley-gi2cv]

On one minute 12 seconds it's showing the log That's like a boot log not established with the correct name because they're not able to load in correctly so ultimately they start dropping other people's names behind the screen and start feeling in other peoples while you're working on it

[@nerdwerx2292]

In the Spring of 2001 ,there was a company based in Seattle WA that had a Terabit Ethernet or TbE system that worked off of the lightwave portion of the Electromagnetic Spectrum.The company was in a downtown highrise and had different receiving stations in various Line of Sight configurations.The CEO demonstrated with a paper plate,that the system could still operate, without any throughput interference.I wonder what ever happened to them? 🤔

[@glasslinger]

In jail for fraud.

[@notafbihoneypot8487]

I'm also wondering how good this would be paired with Meshtastic or reclumi network for offgrid e2e coms but FUTHER

[@AndreasSpiess]

These devices provide a fast link that is not needed for meshtastic.

[@notafbihoneypot8487]

@@AndreasSpiess I wasn't looking for speed, as much as I was looking to help extend the range, the Reticulum network is similar to meshtastic, and Rnodes can work with WiFi LoRa and even some radios.

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@notafbihoneypot8487 My LoRa world record 6 years ago was 203km. Now it is even longer...

[@notafbihoneypot8487]

@@AndreasSpiess oh based. If you have a Updated video of how to test this range , that would. Be cool

[@hanysaad000]

Can we use it for indoor? to avoid signal interference from other devices?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Yes.

[@lindapule1532]

@AndreasSpiess i would like to extend wifi in a building with 26floors using the service elevator tunnel since the elevator is nolonger in use i am getting access on the 1st floor can i use these devices to extend the wifi by mounting 1 at the bottom of the elevetor tunnel and the other at the top of the tunnel,or should i use the ubiquit nano beams?

[@mrfrenzy.]

Nanobeam would be a better choice for indoors, or you could just drop down 100m ethernet cable.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree. 2 nanobeams or Mikrotik SXTsq 5 acs should work. But not at 1gb/s...

[@mrlazda]

Only if you live in Europe there is no ISM band, in Europe we have something called short-range device (SRD), and it is applicable to all countries that are memwbers of CEPT and Switzerland is member of it (even it is agrref it crration in Switzerland).

[@AndreasSpiess]

I am no lawyer ;-) Still, we have bands with similar properties.

[@mrlazda]

@@AndreasSpiess yes we have it is covered by SRD. ISM generally allow higher output power then SRD and power is differently specified (they usualy use output average power, SDR specify maximum ERP power) and some frequency ranges are different Difference are enough that if you use ISM as reference in CEPT countries they will (if they want) can always find something to give you fine bacouse you are not compliant. ps in SRD is part for industrial and medical (what is tehnicly ISM) but for example in it say that max ERP on 2.4GHz is 25mW(or 10mW) but we all know that wifi on 2.4Ghz can go up to 100mw, but wifi in Europe is not covered by industrial science and medical spectrum, but is covered under short range wide band devices which allows 100mW of ERP.

[@LeifNelandDk]

They should add an output for servo motors to adjust the alignment.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I assume that most of these devices are used in a stationary setup. So the alignment only has to be done once.

[@LeifNelandDk]

@@AndreasSpiess naturally, a motorhead would be optional, so temporary links would be quick to set up.

[@avckubw938v1bnvowiqv]

can you just change country in setting to usa? will it work?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I assume. But of course, I did not try ;-)

[@adrian.parano]

of course 😂

[@avckubw938v1bnvowiqv]

@@AndreasSpiess I always wonder, even if you use this frequency, what is the punishment? And how do they detect it since is beam style?

[@imbw267]

60GHz also suffers with any line-of-sight blockers (including people), which prevents it from working well with VR applications.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree.

[@joejoe4games]

Is WiGig making a comeback? I'm still using the 1st generation 60Ghz WiGig regularly for Wireless VR...

[@AndreasSpiess]

Another viewer also commented that WiGig could be useful for VR. Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@joejoe4games]

@@AndreasSpiess It's not just theoretical thou, the HTC Vive Wireless adapter was/is pretty much the first commercial application for 60Ghz WiGig that I'm aware of...

[@Poutine-Chef]

So what encryption do they use out of the box ? What are the options? Is it a wpa2 plus some sort of vpn ?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I did not check. Maybe you find it in the specs.

[@TonyFarley-gi2cv]

Name replacement between which side of the user or which side of the symbols like the at @*^ All these different things that they use to for security and some of these block permissions they think they have and resolution

[@TonyFarley-gi2cv]

Isn't that right suddenlink

[@markrix]

I thought he was gonna say now its 2023 and we are running out of oxygen 😂

[@AndreasSpiess]

Not yet ;-)

[@milofonbil]

Andreas did you try iperf3 to test bandwidth?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Not on this devices. I fear my old laptop would have been the bottleneck...

[@Smarti0101]

It is used for the HTC Vive wireless kit.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the additional info!