476 Is the Raspberry Pi5 the better Proxmox Server?

[@Seikatsu121]

2:50 having the crystal disk mark results printed out and stuck to the drive is such an awesome idea! I will definitely do this too from now on

[@AndreasSpiess]

:-)

[@applescy]

3:46 I get what you are saying. KZbinrs show the installation process and that is possible to install but they dont actually make any use of it down the road to see if its actually usable when adding software. (this goes for many things not just proxmox on a pi). That is why i like your content and i appreciate your time and effort making these videos

[@AndreasSpiess]

I am a user, too. So I am interrested in "what is in for me", not only how many views I will get ;-)

[@Henry-sv3wv]

@@AndreasSpiess and when people say ARM (or Risc-V or whatever) is less compatible the fanboys cry that it is almost a no problem >.< The only thing good about ARM is less energy. That's it. The end. The rest is horrible. No standard, proprietary shitty SOCs (or else i could just install any linux on any android phone).

[@jamesmichener7526]

Now I understand why you haven't had time recently to post new videos. Glad you shared your hard found knowledge. Thanks!

[@AndreasSpiess]

I post videos every two weeks. Except over Christmas and in summer ;-)

[@SmithyScotland]

I converted my IOTStack over to a reused mini pc and have never looked back. I converted each docker container in to its own LXC which gives me much more flexibility. Power consumption is 11 watts - not that much more above a Pi. Now also have proxmox running on a thin client which I upgraded ram to 8gb and disk to 64gb - total cost £38. Given that included a fan and psu much cheaper than a pi.

[@dfgdfg_]

Raspberry PI company has recently started an IPO. Corporate cost cutting soon.

[@originalmianos]

I also run lxd. It is amazing how many full operating systems you can run in containers.

[@tarakivu8861]

@@originalmianos 'full' is maybe a strech, but containers are pretty amazing

[@nevilenobody606]

Absolutely agree So many advantages over a pi.

[@simon057]

I did the same some days ago, yet I was a little bit disappointed by the actual power consumption tbh. My thin client consumes around 14-18W ...

[@SolarWebsite]

For things like Home Assistant, people keep looking at either a RSPi or a mini-PC, but people keep forgetting a very attractive option: an (old or broken) laptop. I run my HA (on Proxmox) on a Dell laptop (i5 8Gb 512Gb) with a broken screen, which was free for me. Power consumption is 10.5 watts which, yes, is more than a RSPi but HA performs much better, and I have room on Proxmox to run other applications. Lastly, it has a built-in UPS. So it's an option worth considering if you ask me.

[@YouTubeGlobalAdminstrator]

❤

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree, this is also a good solution. With a built-in UPS…

[@nevilenobody606]

Using a laptop plugged in 24/7 is a sure fire way to kill the battery.

[@efimovv]

@@nevilenobody606 On old laptop it already dead. But some laptops like Dell and Lenovo offer charging settings. I usually set start charging below 40% and stop at 80%.

[@nevilenobody606]

@@efimovv If it's already dead then there's no UPS!

[@harvaldi]

Proxmox is hipervisor to manage virtual machines. This is something different than containers like docker. They are rarely equally good alternatives. They are different tools for different situations. For my taste VM's are too heavy for small (and relatively weak) device like RPI.

[@p4z9m]

For my use case, LXC with Proxmox is better than Docker, and Kubernetes work really well on Proxmox in VMs to do all the Docker stuff. Btw, I'm using 3 x NUC type PCs for Proxmox with HA and 1 TrueNas PC for backups, so the power budget is a lot worse. Just wanted to say not to discount Proxmox for container applications. But I agree that Docker is a good fit for Raspberry Pi, I still have some PIs as well, but in my case, only for non VM applications. I also agree with the host of the video on his points about Proxmox on RPi.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Proxmox offers also containers in addition to VMs

[@harvaldi]

@@AndreasSpiess Good to know ;)

[@JamesT65]

Great concept for anyone with limited hardware. My macbook pro with 8 cores is now proxmox server allowing to run windows, linux single cpu containers and an image of my original ventira running great.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Cool!

[@klassichd10]

Thank you for your effort! "Available for...." does not necessarily mean "suitable for ... " or even "best for...."

[@AndreasSpiess]

Absolutely!

[@EnginoIsRunning]

Very helpful infos as always. Finally a good explanation on Proxmox running on a pi 5. I have to give it a try. Many Thanks!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Have fun!

[@jmr]

After accessories I think a mini PC is still cheaper price for performance.

[@originalmianos]

No doubt at all. Andreas went through this a few weeks ago. Unless you want the GPIO, the new RPi is the loser in every other category , price. functionality, broad software support, speed just to name a few. :)

[@salan3]

@@originalmianos This is exactly why I am getting rid of my PI's and have gone to mini/tiny pc's The last one I bought (second hand for use as a Proxmox backup server) cost me £20!! The ONLY thing that (for me) the PI wins is lower power consumption which unfortunately these days matters.. I run five mini pc's for a lot less power then my big server used.

[@originalmianos]

@@salan3 The new rpi does not even win on power. The n100s are less than 10W now. Maybe rpi might win by 500mW.

[@originalmianos]

@@salan3 Ps. I used to run a bunch of NUCs. I got a mini PC with 16G and use lxd to run 10 lightweight containers, caddy, mqtt, nodered, wireguard etc all in their own machine all on a 10W T12 N100. 😂

[@matz1991]

exactly this. I got some HP t530 ThinClient 1,50 GHz GX-215JJ, 4GB RAM, 8GB M.2 SSD 1x NT with power supply and shipping for 13,50 Euro each. Send piospartslap(.)de a price suggestion, they got plenty. Uses 7W idling with Proxmox and IObroker, has warranty, nice connectivity, a case, is silent - but no GPIO! Speedwise pretty similar to a PI4. Paying over 50 Euro for a Pi is just a sad joke...

[@peter.stimpel]

Oh, I wouldn't have thougth the PI5 would have enough power to run useful applications in a VM. For playing around, ok. For running a container, OK as well. But full VMs? Somehow amazing, how the PI moves forward ...

[@AndreasSpiess]

Its performance comes now closer to one of the newer "Celerons". Still not very fast, but these Home Automation applications do not need a lot of power.

[@MrYungilike]

It could run GigE based openwrt in armvirt/KVM that works very well because I'm currently using one as my home major router, and two lxc containers on the same physical SBC for some other tasks (such as ddns and some python scripts), all over a 2G/16GB RK3399 Asus Tinker board 2S with Armbian as base OS.

[@martinkorinek5489]

Fantastic timing with the video! I am currently exploring where in my new LAN installation use RPi and where not to. So far this seems ideal: N100 mini PC with OPNsense + RPi for low demand apps-PiHole, etc + x86 with proxmox for the more demanding application.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You can put all those applications on one miniPC using Proxmox. No need for a Pi in this scenario…

[@AkosLukacs42]

Andreas, if you are virtualizing, and not using a desktop environment, why would the raspi os be a requirement? Or is there something specific a more generic os doesn't support? One less roadblock :) But yeah, used mini pcs are the go-to for now!

[@AndreasSpiess]

As a Linux noob, I do not know how much Raspberry OS is changed and if my projects would run on a standard Debian. That is the only reason I usually stick to Raspbery OS.

[@mforrest85]

​@@AndreasSpiessthey should run fine on Debian. Should anyways.

[@K2teknik.]

Just thinking loud: Could it be access to GPIO ?

[@squawk-ee4xe]

Very interesting. If I have a free wish I would vote for a few words on performance of the virtual machines (especially home-assistant). I bought a Mini-PC and use proxmox on it as recommended here. And I'm happy with it.

[@AndreasSpiess]

The performance would be sufficient. Those applications usually do not use the cpu a lot.

[@sundinmikael]

Has switched from Raspberry PI -> Intel Nuc and now AMD 5600G with dual system NVME with ZFS + 32Gbyte ram. Much better compared to a raspberry pi, also 5600G can accelerate video encoding. Yes , draw more power but i can run almost everything in same server.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@marksterling8286]

Thanks for sharing, I run a number of raspberry pi4 with Ubuntu for homebridge, pi hole x2, asterisk, Bonjour bridge, and home assistant. They sit in a pi rack each with Poe, I have been migrating them from sd card to pxe boot. With differing success. Now I am thinking that putting proxmox in between the host and pxe boot may help. Pxe boot proxmox then launch the hosts in proxmox. Thank you for some great inspiration

[@AndreasSpiess]

Here everything (including Asterisk) runs on a single second hand thin client. No issues so far… So you should be able to consolidate everything, too.

[@_s474n]

I bought the RPi5 as soon as it was available. In the end, I decided to go a completely different route and returned it. I bought the Lenovo Thinkcentre M90q with i5-12th gen, installed 64GB of RAM and I am literally grunting with happiness.

[@AndreasSpiess]

A good decision. I also use a small Lenovo…

[@Darkk6969]

The ARM processors are gaining server space in the data centers so would be cool if ProxMox officially supports it. Cool to see the community got it working...mostly.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I assume this is the reasoning behind 5e whole story…

[@avejst]

Great video as always. Thanks for sharing your expirences with all of us, Love IT 🙂

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@davidllaca1506]

Thank you for spreading your crystallized knowledge

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for your support!

[@BrunoOctavioBomba]

i run a 3 RPI4 proxmox cluster with all my digital life there using many selfhoster services. Love it. Cant wait to put my hand on a pi5

[@AndreasSpiess]

Which OS do you use on your VMs?

[@BrunoOctavioBomba]

@@AndreasSpiess Mostly debian minimal install and work up from there. For HAOS i use one of their images, for nextcloud i use, a nextxloudpi img, then i have an alarm(archlinuxarm) for an experimental minimal wayland desktop using sway. Then i run other services like syncthing and OMV on debina vms. I recently learned how to manage storage from with in proxmox so i will drop the OMV nas vms.

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@BrunoOctavioBomba Sorry for "asking" 10 times. I was on the train with a bad connection, and obviously, it posted my comment and told me that it failed ;-) I see you have much more Linux knowledge than me. So far, I have not been able to get Raspberry OS running in a VM...

[@asiw]

Excellent, thank you. As usual you have saved me a lot of time. I might have gone down this rabbit hole.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Rabbit holes are my job ;-)

[@borisvokladski5844]

Cool that you have the opportunity to install Proxmox on the RPi5. It could be useful for me. Instead of me having x number of SD cards with x operative systems, I can have them all together in Proxmox with the opportunity to snapshot and take backup of the VMs to my NAS. I bought a USB C to Lenovo power connector, so I could connect my Lenovo SFF M700 Tiny to my power adapter and powerbank. This gave me the feeling of having a Raspberry Pi, but more powerful. It requires a power adapter and powerbank supporting 20V and 3.25A. With all the GaN power adapters out there, it is possible to find one supporting 20V.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Indeed, 20V USB-C opens a lot of new possibilities!

[@NGolda]

Thank you for the very informative video. Will this work for me without a wired network connection.? I read proxmox does not support wifi because that was my issue running proxmox on a minipc. Any ideas will be helpful. Thank you.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I never tried WiFi, so I do not know. But I would be surprised if it would not work.

[@jakubrybar9987]

Thank you Andreas for great content! It's good to see that it is a reasonable option for individuals, who wants to isolate their services without need to use a containers. When uploading ISO image to be used for PVE VM installations, you can use "Download from URL" instead of "Upload" one. This saves you at least one step in the workflow, and you can execute it from any system over GUI with limited underlying storage for temporary download. Keep up the good job, and happy hacking! 🤜

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the tip!

[@declanheerey3776]

I love the list...."try..." That is certainly the case with anything on a raspberry pi. I have 5 of them. They are all different. They all behave and react differently and everything is trying. Still love the lill things but they can be ...... well..... trying

[@Chris-ut6eq]

Always useful and informative, thank you for the video!

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@flemlion13]

Given the problems running the desktop this reminds me of the initial issues getting to run Android on virtual PC. The graphics made available by the hypervisor are not the same as the machine it is running on.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the info!

[@porklaser]

I got proxmox up and running on m y Pi5 with an NVME hat a few weeks ago. I even got windows arm running in a VM. Running inside a KVM VM is not what a lot of distros are expecting (They're used to running on bare metal. Sometimes picking the video type 'ramfb' can help. One thing that will help a lot is the adoption of UEFI in the arm ecosystem. Arm has had a bootloader/firmware problem for a while and uboot has only gotten about half way there as arm boards are still stuck in little islands of firmware compatibility. UEFI is making headway and if board manufactures and OS vendors adopt UEFI getting everything to run will be a lot easier.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I also hope that we will get UEFI. Then one difference is closed.

[@the_mad_swimbaiter455]

I love your breakdowns

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@radry100]

But what about performance? I hoped you would answer the question you asked in the title but only show how or if images can be installed.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Performance is no problem for those applications. They do not use a lot of CPU.

[@arangaran]

thanks for your answer, i got another question for you, when i did this and installed proxmox it didnt instal a vmbridge which seems you had to do, so the IP you had in your ethernet port, was assigned to the vmbridge that you created? it was assigned automatically? or what happened could you give me more details about that part because normal proxmox installs got the vmbr0 installed by default.

[@AndreasSpiess]

If I remember right I got the vmbr0 installed by Proxmox, but I do not remember. There are many other installation videos where you probably will see what you are searching for.

[@GeekendZone]

Same happened to me, thats why I went with a intel mini-PC.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Good choice!

[@escapement]

The orange pi 5 plus would make it much more compelling proxmox server once more support for it is up streamed in the kernel, which is coming soon.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Software was always an issue with the non-raspberry boards... The HW often is better as well as price/performance.

[@LackofFaithify]

When I am feeling particularly perverse, I install proxmox, spin up a LXC, put a docker with duplicati on that and then backup proxmox to itself.

[@lua-nya]

😂

[@johngreen1060]

PI5 would not replace my home server (not enough IO and RAM) but could be a nice solution for a high availability stack running HA, OPNsense etc. I hope the issues will be ironed out soon.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Fortunately, we have a solution for the time till it is fixed.

[@alorotom2001]

a great comparison, I like your way of doing this, I completely agree with you Proxmox for private or small companies is optimal on a Mini PC, if you only need Docker a Pi computer is enough, for a little more demanding I would always go for Proxmox of all because the Firewall Intel N100, Mini Router PCs do not cost extremely more money and are also extremely power saving but still bring enough performance to do everything possible with Proxmox. 😋

[@AndreasSpiess]

Well said!

[@m3chanist]

The active cooler for the pi5 is supriseingly quite, it's 30C here at the moment, middle of summer and I can barely hear it sitting about 400mm away

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thanks for the info. So far, I did not use it.

[@DannyBackx]

People continue to misunderstand swap space requirements. It has nothing to do with how big your system is. If you run a lot of processes, then the sum of their memory requirements has to fit in memory (so 8GB minus kernel requirements minus buffering). If you run many processes on your Linux/Unix, then swap space extends your memory. So if you run 10GB of processes, then you may need to allocate 4GB of swap to add to your 8GB of RAM (assuming 2GB for buffers etc).

[@radry100]

The problem is you usually don't know exactly how much memory all your processes need and many are dynamic.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree. Still, if you work with big images, the chance is bigger that you need a lot of swap. At least this was the case during my tests.

[@arangaran]

i wonder if you could test this setup with an orange pi 5 pro (16gb-ddr5) or orange pi 5 plus (32gb-ddr4) both allow you to use nvme and with so much ram u could run many VMs, also have you solved the no display message?, and about the Raspberry img boot, it wont because it uses u-boot and thats kind of propietary of the SBC, so uefi is the only thing we can aim for, proxmox has addons that are installed in the guest OS but they are for x86, i dont know though if they could be cross compiled or something to make them work inside of debian or ubuntu, could you try?

[@AndreasSpiess]

As I said in the video: I will not return to these SBCs for a server. The Orange Pi will have the same features and flaws, if not more because of the software availability.

[@MrYungilike]

I would simply admit that the cost performance of new Pi is obviously not that good enough compared with intel N100. But I'm still using openwrt on armvirt based vm on an Asus Tinker Board 2S+ (2G/16G, RK3399) as my home gateway just because it can, and that's much fun to have 1 vm and 2 containers running on an small sbc like that. Having 12V input instead of 5V just makes that better.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I decided for a good Mikrotik router (also because of PoE). Because I have a few other devices from them, it is easier to learn for me…

[@ronaldhofman1726]

ON my Pi 5 i have Ubuntu 23.10 on as nvme ssd, runs well.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for sharing your experience!

[@BeNtOoOoOo]

Proxmox is based on Debian. Raspbi also is based on OS. For most cases on Proxmox if the machine you need is Debian based, you should make a container, not a VM, since all kernel and such is already present.

[@BeNtOoOoOo]

Also, if the system itself is UEFI, then you should use UEFI as standard, you should only use legacy if the system isn't UEFI. The Raspbian may be legacy based to be installed on barebone as such, and will not work on UEFI (They are just 2 ways to start the machine, UEFI pulls drivers to memory on startup and take control of them, legacy wont load them and will let the system handle them).

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are right. I usually use whatever the project is delivering. Home assistant, for example, delivers a whole operating system (also for the Raspberry). With IOTstack I could try a container.

[@EddyDsSmartHome]

Ich dachte es gäbe endlich eine Alternative zu Pimox 😞 die gut funktioniert. Aber ich glaube ein PC wir auf Dauer immer die bessere Entscheidung sein, man ist damit einfach flexibler.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Das glaube ich auch. Da hat sich ein neuer Markt entwickelt.

[@accik]

Had ProxMox on a Raspberry Pi 4 and it worked fine until the sd card died. After that I just used lite raspbian and docker

[@AndreasSpiess]

This is why I used an SSD…

[@ccln]

Use the UEFI ARM ISO exclusively. If you intend to utilize a .img image (also with UEFI), import it using the "qm importdisk ...." command, as the graphical UI doesn't support this. Additionally, configure affinity due to the big.LITTLE architecture; you cannot use both a little and big core for a virtual machine.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the info about big.little. I did not care because I thought, the ARM architecture uses only one.

[@ccln]

@@AndreasSpiess On the BCM2712 of the RPi5, there's only one type of core. However, when working with other single-board computers, the core architecture becomes crucial. Personally, I use an Orange Pi 5 Plus with 16GB of RAM and an 8-core RK3588, running Proxmox, and it works great!

[@ronaldhofman1726]

Proxmox is awesome stepped over from hyper-v and vmware to Proxmox

[@AndreasSpiess]

It’s big community is also very valuable…

[@ronaldhofman1726]

@@AndreasSpiess , I want to subscribe for community of Proxmox later on.

[@davidgomez79]

Nucbox G3 with an Intel N100 cpu + Proxmox = perfection. I've abandoned RPIs. I'll let Jeff Geerling keep pretending that RPIs are still worth it.

[@AndreasSpiess]

His last video was a bit different…

[@davidgomez79]

@@AndreasSpiess yes it was. He should consider though that a mini pc is better an for gpio projects esp32, stm32 blackpill, pi pico or at most pi zero 2 are more suited

[@TheKetsa]

Just ordered a miniPC from aliexpress at CHF 100 - intel N100, 4cores, 16GB RAM, 512 Gb SSD. With all accessories. Those Pi SBC are no longer competing in this market.

[@AndreasSpiess]

That is a very good price!

[@coding-lemur]

I also think Docker is the best option for the PI und Proxmox better for x86 homeserver. Thanks for that video Andreas :)

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@jeffreyplum5259]

Just as the Pi4 release hinted at a later 8GB Ram version as a future upgrade, the Pi5 release hinted at a 16 GB ram version as a future release. Note NVME SSDs run hot, so choose your cooling and case accordingly. I will be running a Pi5 because of its active cooling potential. I have no AC, so things can get rather hot, even in New England.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for the additional info!

[@gedgicat2063]

Interesting video as always. I'm currently testing proxmox 7 on a pi4. It's using a serial console as terminal display output, which works well on none desktop environments for now, I wonder if that will work on proxmox 8

[@AndreasSpiess]

It should work on version 8, too.

[@jamesbutler5570]

We don't need rpi5s but cm4s for all our stalled projects

[@AndreasSpiess]

I did not need those. Are they still rare?

[@Suchtzocker]

yep any cheap x86 platform is way more versatile, but you question was for proxmoxx what would be true i guess

[@AndreasSpiess]

Yes, I looked at Proxmox in this video.

[@GarryMobi]

I was lucky to pick up a cheap used micro-PC HO 800 G3 with i5-6500@3.2GHz, 16GB and 256G SSD (~110€) some time ago ... retired my Pi4 (running with a USB-SSD) as it doesn't use much more electricity, whiile providing much more performance ... you'd be hard pressed getting even close to that price for a Pi5, and still have less performance ...

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you for sharing your experience. Most of us agree on that one (I made a video about htat a few months ago). Still, there are a lot of Pi lovers around...

[@peros550]

Hi Andreas, could you please test some mini pcs running N100 cpu? This could be in continuation to your videos of replacing rpi

[@AndreasSpiess]

There are a few other channels doing that. The differences are pretty small between the boxes. I still wait for one that is better suited for our need with reasonable sized case and at least 32GB of memory.

[@ws_stelzi79]

Considering that Proxmox and Raspian (=Raspberry OS) are basically only slightly - if even - changed Debian systems there probably only was some misconfigured settings for the vms.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thanks for the info. Also others mentioned that I should not care too much about Raspbery OS and just use Debian.

[@humphet3750]

8Gb RAM is ok for Proxmox only without ZFS, so with Pi you must forget about fully functional clusters, etc.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I only wanted one server ;-)

[@DavidGlaude]

Not and expert here... I have a Pi5 and a Nuc like PC and I was planning to install ProxMox on it, so maybe I need to watch some of your video that I skipped (or was not attentive). However, I discovered that qemu (used by ProxMox) can emulate a Pi3... so normally you could run an image made for the Pi and supposed to run on arm hardware, inside a box on an x86 server. I wonder if you investigated this possibility... now I need to find your video on ProxMox. 🙂

[@AndreasSpiess]

No, I used X86 images on my X86 Proxmox machine because it runs natively (and I had no need to do differently).

[@alicewyan]

The "Display is not active" message is familiar to me. Happens with some images when I run them on UTM (a qemu UI for ARM64 macOS computers), and can sometimes be solved by changing the Display device for the VM. Perhaps it works for the Pi too?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you. I tried all available displays without success…

[@iblackfeathers]

raspberry pis seem to be primarily for low power consumption that everything else is secondary… like if it you can actually do something with it. but before you can even get a pi, availability is lowest in priority.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I had no problem getting a Pi5. That seems to have changed recently. At least where I live.

[@elgrazo82]

I'm no Raspian expert but I'd assume they included only drivers for the RPi hardware in their kernel, which is abstracted away in a VM. Merci für dini Videos, Gruess us Birsfälde

[@AndreasSpiess]

Maybe. We will see. Maybe we will get a proper release…

[@var67]

@@AndreasSpiess No, I think what @elgrazo82 said is correct. There will never be a UEFI boot version of RPi OS, because a RPi does not work with UEFI boot. And that's the end of it for the RPi people, I'm sure.

[@hmtechsvc]

solid review andreas - tysm as always sir!

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@alexdarby3374]

in the process of upgrading a pi3 running HAOS to a pi5 but I know its overpowered. Is it easy to run HA as a container or VM and make the usb and bluetooth on the PI 5 available for pass thru? I need them for the wireless zigbee and zwave dongles.

[@AndreasSpiess]

As shown in this video, I would not bet my home automation on this. Most of us running Proxmox do it on an X86 platform (I made a video about it).

[@alexdarby3374]

@@AndreasSpiess it sounds like maybe Ubuntu with Docker and then running ha as a containter is more ideal? The only challenge i see is paasing through the uabs and bluetooth to the container

[@MangustaMG20]

I found in my 'experiments' the following: Pimox installs, ...eventually. Its not an easy ride Its not really ready for a healthy home lab integration Do NOT install Ceph and link it to your Cluster. It took my complete cluster down and required rebuild

[@AndreasSpiess]

Bad luck! Thank you for sharing your experience.

[@x91w]

I find docker unintuitive compared to baremetal or other hypervisor. Long ago I migrated from vmware to Proxmox on X86. Early days was unreliable and a learning curve, now it is stable and mature. I expect IF Proxmox adopt it officially then it will become a useful resource but there will still be room for AWS/Akami cloud hypervisors

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree.

[@systemofapwne]

I set up my Pi5 in order to run a x86 VM. The performance of emulating x86 on ARM was - well - unsatisfactory. This and the fact, that proxmox-port comes from a single developer (red flag) form china (red flag), I went towards a used intel NUC now instead.

[@AndreasSpiess]

That is definitively the better choice. I love my Lenovo Mini with Proxmox.

[@markarca6360]

They are better used as thin clients for VDI deployments.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree.

[@NiHaoMike64]

Can it run Android? Might be a good option for app testing, without the performance penalty of emulating ARM on x86. (Too bad Swagbucks is no longer worth mining, otherwise spinning up a few mining instances would be a good use of a Pi.)

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know :-(

[@juebaitube]

Danke Andreas. Very interesting.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad you liked it!

[@mvadu]

At this point if you are not using the gpio and need only compute I don't see the selling point of Raspberry pi, I rather buy a tiny pc and get all its supported x86-64 architecture and huge memory space..

[@AndreasSpiess]

There are quite a few Pi "fanboys" around. And some people want an extremely low power consumption.

[@johnlaurencepoole6408]

Xen (on Gentoo) user here. Proxmox is based on KVM which, in turn, was a fork from Xen. Xen is alive and well, but not for the faint-hearted. (Oracle's VM product finds its origin in Xen, too.) Virtualization *is* complicated and that why companies such as Citrix and Amazon make a business just getting hypervisor and VMs working. The big topic these days is to ensure privacy among the VMs, especially if you are cloud server offering a VM which is suppose to be hack proof and your data unavailable to a malicious neighboring VM. Then things get further complicated with UEFI. I think development is only going to be towards areas where there is a potential for revenue... something antithetical to the philosophy of Raspberry Pi users. The people not paid by their employers supporting Xen in open source has dwindled -- it's just getting too complex.employers supporting xen in open source has dwindled. Just a view from someone who shares your ideals.

[@AndreasSpiess]

As mentioned, I am only a user and glad to have such tools and not a lot to care about security. So I am happy if others do the heavy lifting to create the tools…

[@haraldfielker4635]

8GB is the limit - not the CPU type - you can run almost anything on aarm64

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree that the 8GB is not a lot for a server.

[@WereCatf]

Why would you specifically want Rasperry OS inside a VM? It's just customized Debian for the Raspberry hardware, but inside a VM, it doesn't have any Raspberry hardware, so...that kinda makes it redundant.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I thought they adapted the Raspberry OS more and that some projects would not work. So it is good to know that this fear is not needed. Thanks.

[@WereCatf]

@@AndreasSpiess Oh, okay. I did not realize that this is still that much of unexplored waters for you.

[@reptilia7170]

What about IOMMU? Does it work?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not know (I never used it)

[@reptilia7170]

Ok. I think it is a must have for most homeassistant users as lots of people use usb devices for their zigbee/zwave networks. It would require passing through the device to honeassistant. At least if you dony go the ser2net way

[@isoEH]

Supporting your channel with a comment.

[@mx338]

Why would you need Raspberry Pi OS though? When it comes to server applications I don't see any reason to use something other than Ubuntu/Debian or Rocky/Fedora.

[@AndreasSpiess]

As a Linux noob I usually use Raspberry OS because most projects are made for this OS. But maybe I am over cautious..

[@bogdanexit1]

I switch to proxmox on a Intel nuc 5 month ago. I have a raspbery pi 3 in paralel, until now the proxmox was down one time in this period on a power outage. The raspbery recovered but proxmox don't. Lucky for me I detected that proxmox is down and i restarted via internet with shelly. On proxmox I have Ha, Node red, Influx DB 1.8 and 2 and graphana. On raspbery I have only influx 1.8 and node red. 10 W consumtion for Intel nuc and 8 on raspbery. Measured with Shelly power meter. Until now I'm happy, I need to fiind a solution to detect fast if the proxmox is down

[@HelmutQ]

The solution is renting a virtual server on which to run the containers you need. No worries about electricity and down time. They notice when there servers are down. I'm running your same stack for 5 USD a month, not paying for electricity, or hardware, always the newest stuff. My containers are now running for 14 months without any interruption.

[@radry100]

@@HelmutQ Where do you get a VPS with at least 8GB ram and 4 cores and minimum 128GB NVME storage for 5 USD? Power cost of a raspberry pi is less than that per month and for smart home you really want a local server and not remote.

[@HelmutQ]

@@radry100 I got 2 CPUs with 2 GB Memory and 80GB of disk. Runs 24 hours a day and communicates with mz hous over mosquitto For my purposes this is enough. If I were to need more I'd pay for more but only for as long as I need them. With many providers you can rent by the hour for a few cents. With only containers you need much less Ram than with full blown virtual machines. Most docker containers offload the Ram requirements to the browser client who does the graphics. They just send html5/JS content very concise, they never render it in their own memory. Influxdb is a noteable unpleasant excetpion. But there are other reasons to get out of the way of it And of course no multiple copies of substantially the same OSes. It is a matter of taste really. I see no reason to fill my drawers with ever new SBCs , power cables, chassis, powersupplies etc, which most of the time stay there. For a more casual hobbyist like myself, remote is definitely the way to go, and even for bros like the guy with the swiss accent it is at least a viable alternative. With portainer as many remote images can be installed with a gui in the browser just as easily as locally. VScode edits files directly on the remote machine through ssh. Once setup you no longer notice the machine is not in your house. Xwindows is slow but usuable. I render my stuff in html/js jpeg or png and pick them up in the browser. Most modern Home systems do the same. I. basically stopped spending anything. Just a couple of esp8266 or RP2040 which communicate with the data center mosquitto, my own private instance hidden behind a random private protocol, nobody will ever hack, not because it is so good, but because it is unique and not worthwhile breaking. I have no open ports in my home net and can control the homesystem from anywhere in the world. The provider took care of registration. An nginx reverse proxy connects to each of my separate containers with seperate subdomains. I still have a couple of RP 3 and 4. But undusting them finding the right power cable and SD card, rarely comes to my mind these days. Buying an RP5 even less. All my containers are savely stored in my 2 TB Family Apple cloud, batteries and backups included. dozens of them. All the best with your hobby. There are many ways to go to Rome. Trying with virtual servers is worthwhile. It did save me a lot of time and money and drawer space. Yeah it changed my life. Amazon AWS even offered a free Tier for a year. IONOS is cheap and easier to administer and more predictable in billing with traffic included. Cheers

[@AndreasSpiess]

I use an ESP-01 as a watchdog timer. If it does not get a regular MQTT message from my broker on Proxmox it sends me a message via Telegram. Because it runs very independent from the Proxmox server it is quite safe. No protection against power outage and internet outage, of course... All other "processes" also have node-red watchdogs that send Telegram messages whenever the standard interval is not met (then, something must be wrong).

[@MrMilanoLau]

Can Windows 10 / 11 run on Proxmox? Thanks.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Yes.

[@MrMilanoLau]

@@AndreasSpiess Thanks.

[@tarakivu8861]

The N100s are just cheaper than the Pi5 overall and have the better architecture, upgradeable memory and some pci card support

[@AndreasSpiess]

I am not sure if they are cheaper. But they have more power and memory, I agree.

[@mahagr78]

Nah, I bought two Lenovo Tiny 710q's (with i5 7500T and 6500T) instead. Better one got 32GB of RAM, a new 2TB M:2 drive and 2.5mbps ethernet card where the older one ended up getting the extra RAM stick resulting to 16GB, the included 128GB M.2 drive and a new 2.5mbps ethernet card. Total cost for both of them was ~260€. It's just not worth to get Raspberry Pi's anymore (except maybe Zero 2's if you can get one for 20€).

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree if you do not need GPIOs…

[@mahagr78]

@@AndreasSpiess Even if you do, you can just use Zero or a microcontroller...

[@AubsUK]

I have two (three, but one USB died) Raspberry Pi 4 8GB with Proxmox PVE installed. On one, I have Home Assistant HASS OS full install, and two containers - an nginx Proxy and PiHole. On the other, I have OctoPrint with USB pass-through to my 3D printer. I have a server running Proxmox PVE. I also have a Proxmox PVE and a Proxmox PBS VM running on Hyper-V on my Windows 11 desktop. They're all clustered so I can manage each from the other, and all are backed up to the PBS on my desktop. It's brilliant! On the server, I have OpnSense as my primary firewall.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Cool setup!

[@dmitrynet2009]

and what about qemu kvm, performance should be better

[@doranku]

Eh, proxmox supports qemu and will use kvm to do so.

[@lazerusmfh]

N100 NUC. WAY better for proxmox, and you can get it almost the same form factor in the right configuration

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree.

[@heyyoo]

You have to convert the raspberry pi os image to qcow2, increase the size to have free space and boot from it. Like you did with the home assistant image. Its not an installer like debian. qemu-img convert -f raw -O qcow2 image.img image.qcow2 qemu-img resize image.qcow2 +4G

[@AndreasSpiess]

I did what you suggested and importet it to a VM: qemu-img resize image.qcow2 +4G Same effect :-(

[@skovgaard79]

Great video as always.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@niceride]

UEFI can be spoken more simply as "E.F.I boot mode" and written as "UEFI". Although "U.E.F.I." would be the correct term for the standard that may be implemented outside of Intel's de-facto EFI implementation, pronouncing it as a word was confusing. The filename extensions are '*.efi' on the EFI System Paritition of the EFI bootloader that implements Universal EFI specification. "Wiff Eee" "Why? Fie!" etc for WiFi has always been a long running joke what a strange mark that is to write and say, but there's no such contest over EFI.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I am glad you understood what I wanted to say ;-)

[@PaulaBean]

The fan on my Pi5 runs continually at it highest speed. I wonder why.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I do not use fans. But maybe it needs a software to create a PWM signal for the fan?

[@PuOop-j9l]

please use virtio and don't leave the default scsi and e1000 drivers... Also the verdict is that you don't understand the difference between an iso and a disk image.

[@AndreasSpiess]

I agree that I have no clue about those file formats. The question is: Would it have had an effect on the outcome?

[@PuOop-j9l]

@@AndreasSpiess basically you need to write the image to the disk. You might have success by loading a basic desktop distro from iso, download the IMG file and write it to the disk with dd, I bet that this way raspios and openwrt will work

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@PuOop-j9l That is what I did. Without much success in some cases 😞

[@PuOop-j9l]

@@AndreasSpiess look into maybe installing u-boot on the mbr

[@BabaDka]

I migrated everything to a i7-1360P intel nuc, 64gb running proxmox and it is so over kill

[@AndreasSpiess]

Definitively an overkill. But who cares ;-)

[@colemichae]

Great report.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Thank you!

[@puccaso]

0:20 and the orange pi5 pro is faster than the pi5. would love to see a comparison video.

[@AndreasSpiess]

As a Linux noob I decided to stick with the Pi as an SBC. So somebody else has to do that test…

[@esteban-]

I think the Rpi5 is quite a bad deal compared with OrangePI 5/5 plus based on rockchip. First of all for heavy loads you can buy enough ram. Second is on-board faster NVM-E without dongles. Third it is actually WAY better in every single metric than the rpi5... And the price is almost the same. Anyway... neither of those are good hosts for virtual machines nor will be in the near future.

[@AndreasSpiess]

As a Linux noob, I decided to stick with Raspberry OS because of its huge community. So I have to go without all these HW goodies :-(

[@esteban-]

@@AndreasSpiess Raspberry OS is quite good to be honest. It should work in most arm based boards as it is based on armbian.

[@droneforfun5384]

Thanks

[@AndreasSpiess]

You are welcome!

[@Gerald-iz7mv]

How can you use rp5 as a proxy server?

[@AndreasSpiess]

Goole knows many products to solve this issue.

[@UndregoGrey]

Im sorry but raspberry pi's are not built for virtualisation. ANY intel cpu with VT will outperform it considerably

[@heyyoo]

That's not correct. The raspberry pi CPU supports virtualization.

[@stefan3816]

​@@heyyoo​ He said that the Intel cpu would outperform the raspberry pi, not that the pi doesn't have support for virtualization

[@heyyoo]

@@stefan3816 if the argument is that a faster CPU outperforms a slower CPU, it's a DUH argument. But they mention Intel VT, meaning, virtualization is accelerated Intel. I pointed out that the rpi also supports virtualization enhancements.

[@tarakivu8861]

@@heyyoo Does Pi5 finally support cpu crypt features? The Pi4 didnt even have Aes acceleration.. what a shitty foundation

[@heyyoo]

@@tarakivu8861 it does, armv8 feature, it's like 50 times faster now. AES pmull sha1 sha2 Features : fp asimd evtstrm aes pmull sha1 sha2 crc32 atomics fphp asimdhp cpuid asimdrdm lrcpc dcpop asimddp

[@jon_raymond]

Any comment on Raspberry Pi going public? A good thing? A bad thing?

[@AndreasSpiess]

I did not look at it so far :-(

[@fluffyblue4006]

I have a NAS that runs VMs and Dockers. It has an Intel processor. My home automation runs in there. There's VMware Player on my PC, for prototyping. Raspberries still have a place. I use one as a USB-IP server for a 433MHz tranceiver and a zWave controller. Another measures my gas/elec/water usage and it has some local sensors. Another is an OctoPrint server and sits next to my 3D printer. And another as the brains for an alarm clock that also works as a podcast player. I don't like the power supply requirements of the later model Raspberries and the fact that you need to add a cooler. My first Raspberry I bought out of curiosity and I found applications for it. Next gen had WiFi. Bought that too. But I don't feel the need to buy a Pi4 or Pi5. So I won't. Maybe for a future project that specifically requires one.

[@AndreasSpiess]

Similar situation here. One Pi4 for Balloon hunting (SDR) because the Pi3 was too slow…

[@fluffyblue4006]

@@AndreasSpiess And how many do you have, doing nothing? I have 3 or 4 I don't use anymore.

[@AndreasSpiess]

@@fluffyblue4006 Two were killed and not replaced during the supply crisis (dead power supply). So not many left...

[@ronm6585]

Thanks.

[@AndreasSpiess]

You're welcome

[@taoufikbadri6959]

Thanks !

[@AndreasSpiess]

Welcome!