4Runner KDSS Sway Bar- Suspension TECH

[@KevinSmith-4Liberty]

Love my KDSS!! Big difference in handling on the highway vs non-KDSS

[@thehayman7352]

Big difference in flex amount also. Why I’m taking it off

[@johnmadsen37]

The Hay Man is 1/2 really a big difference?

[@ShogunateDaimyo]

@@thehayman7352 can you elaborate? I'd like to hear more about the cons

[@thehayman7352]

@@johnmadsen37 it’s a big difference when you are long traveling.

[@thehayman7352]

@@ShogunateDaimyo if you don’t off-road hard there really isn’t any cons. When you begin looking into long travel and more serious suspension KDSS won’t work

[@ShogunateDaimyo]

Thanks for taking the time to make this content. It was really helpful in making a buying decision with the myriad of accessory combinations that Toyota offers. I'm not planning on hardcore off-roading so if the vehicle does not come with kdss that's fine, if it does that's fine too. I'm not going to pass on the vehicle if it doesn't have it like I did on the super white venture edition I did a couple weeks ago. Thanks!

[@willschmahl1240]

Thanks for the explanation of the KDSS. This explains alot .. My 2017 GX460 has the passenger lean drives me crazy,. The passenger front seems mushy on left turns.. Hope my warranty still covers this ..

[@LikeOnATree]

Great video, thanks for making it! Helpful in understanding KDSS

[@billkoz5464]

The one and really important fact is KDSS has an enormous affect on on-road performance. Also, what he forgot to mention is KDSS's actuator forces more articulation.

[@ExitOffroad]

Great video and explanation!!

[@scottstenglein7561]

I’ve been wondering why my trail is lower in the front passenger. No one could answer this . Thanks!

[@accutuneoffroad]

Glad we could help. You may want to take out some preload on those front coilovers to get things level.

[@WilbanksUSMC]

Toyotas are known to lean to one side, you can get a correction plate for pretty cheap that mounts above your strut. I think its called the "Toyota lean"

[@T4R_Artemis]

So basically it's better to get the 4runner without kdss? If so thanks for saving me the 2k for pointless add on. I can put that towards something better

[@accutuneoffroad]

:) All depends on what you plan on using it for. If you plan on lifting it and want to go off-road often, it may not be needed.

[@Pokekevin]

Great video! Hmm what if someone were to fabricate a longer link on the passenger side? Would that potentially cause a reduction in uptravel?

[@accutuneoffroad]

Sway bar links? They would need to be equal lengths, but a spacer would help with clearance.

[@OceansideCreations]

Nice vid, hey do I have to mess around with the KDSS system in order to swap bushings on rear shocks?

[@accutuneoffroad]

No, we don't touch the KDSS system

[@richard-mai]

Is kdss an option on 2wd versions of the trail?

[@donkeyrider]

this has been very useful. Have you considered selling PCK (pandhard correction kits)?

[@FloridaDeere]

So it seems if you do a fair amount of off roading and want to do a lift, say 2-3", it might be better to avoid the KDSS. My dealer said the same, he mentioned avoiding it because it throws off Toyota's factory set-up. Am I right or wrong?

[@accutuneoffroad]

Its just easier to work with a non-KDSS vehicle. If you plan to add aftermarket suspension and go off-road a lot, it may be something you want to avoid. Its not the end of the world if you do have it though. There are more aftermarket accessories now available that support these models.

[@FloridaDeere]

@@accutuneoffroad Thanks for the response, and great detailed video, love seeing content like this.

[@sebastianlombana6144]

Can you add the skid plate on a 4runner with KDSS? Thanks.

[@acthilina]

​@AccuTuneOff-Road, What are your thoughts on 4runner TRD Pro Fox Shocks set up vs TRD OffRoad KDSS? Which set up is better? TIA

[@ShogunateDaimyo]

I'd like to know as well. This is pretty confusing why Toyota doesn't have the kdss on the higher end Pro and Venture offroad lines (here in US) when the TRD off road and TRD off road premium do have it...

[@drsus0]

Have you guys had a chance to check out he LC200 KDSS set up yet?

[@accutuneoffroad]

Negative, however I imagine its very similar all around.

[@drsus0]

AccuTune Off-Road its interesting reading the different ways LC owners deal with lifting theirs from how 4runners deal with it when they both have KDSS... makes me think the LC might have some differences. There seems to be a valve adjustment on the LC system that you re calibrate or adjust after you lift to re level the truck. Hadn’t heard of that on the 4runner. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqW4g5eNa5uKg5Y

[@jomarcrisjc]

Do I need to swap the traction bar if I’m doing a 3inch lift? Or will it be fine without changing it? Also is it necessary to change out my front UCA when doing a 3inch lift?

[@accutuneoffroad]

For a true 3" rear lift it would be recommended, not required. Front is required for anything taller than 2"

[@parkyourthoughts5741]

Aloha, I hope you are well and safe. I just got off the phone with King shocks. And they said their shocks will do 2 1/2 inches front and back. On a KDSS system. They say the mistake that most installers do is to remove the swaybar when installing. That normally causes the issue. Please let me know your thoughts? Thank you

[@jasnfb3600]

Why no reply? I would also like to here their thoughts regarding this question.

[@accutuneoffroad]

The more you lift, the less down travel you will have. Based on the measurements we have taken, 1" rear lift if the idea and max recommended height.

[@Mac4Willy]

With the KDSS, WHAT is the max lift you should get without compromising the KDSS system? I read you should not go over 2.5 inches. Any info would be helpful. Thank you

[@accutuneoffroad]

Roughly 2.5" front and 1" rear, unless you add a KDSS drop bracket in the rear, you could probably get 1.5-2" in rear.

[@ferlottes]

@@accutuneoffroad you mean by that than the vehicule will only be 2,5 inches higher in front and 1 inche higher in rear? So they will be no difference at all ? Geez, this KDSS just ruins my brand new 4runner trd off raod,,,

[@sleepydj]

Nice video. Thanks for the information. Do you know if KDSS reduces highway roll over risk on these 4runners? Thanks!

[@accutuneoffroad]

I can't say for sure, but it definitely will help.

[@sleepydj]

@@accutuneoffroad Thanks for the response!

[@leleetifra8818]

Does kdss come on 2018 tundra

[@TheCls63]

What about Aftermarket shocks that says (with KDSS) would that make a difference?

[@accutuneoffroad]

I would assume they took into consideration the limited travel on a KDSS equipped 4Runner. We cannot speak on behalf of every shock out there. If you're interested in getting some aftermarket shocks, give us a call.

[@rocketmonkey90]

So what's the Max lift on the 4runner with KDSS to have to problems

[@accutuneoffroad]

About 2.5" in front, and 1" of lift in the rear has ben the max height we recommend.

[@corwininadsm]

@@accutuneoffroad do KDSS spacers change that? or is there interference still.

[@MuhammadShakurIV]

@@accutuneoffroad are these measurements the same for the gx470?

[@accutuneoffroad]

@@MuhammadShakurIV No, this is specifically for the 4Runner

[@ericduany2809]

Can you explain what droop is? Never heard that term before.

[@accutuneoffroad]

Droop, or "full droop" is when the suspension is fully extended.

[@usmanarshad2049]

As far as your suspension can travel before your tire losses contact with the ground , usually happens while off roading in severe leans towards the one side or the other .

[@johnrommelt6560]

Question about Rear Springs with KDSS: I want to put Heavier Springs Rear, How much extra load Springs can I go to without affecting KDSS?

[@accutuneoffroad]

Unfortunately we have not tested every spring rate available.

[@johnrommelt6560]

@@accutuneoffroad How many inches can you raise the Height of the 2020 4Runner before it is conflicts with the KDSS?

[@nyinyikyaw]

what is difference between KDSS and ABC systems?

[@ragchaasurengalindev]

Thanks for the video. I have learned a lot. I still have a question. You said the sway bar is stiff. Is it beefier than the Non-KDSS sway bar? Because it is stiffer than the previous (or non-KDSS sway bar), does it flex less (or more stable) on roads? I understand the hydraulic ram does not move much on roads which means it is the same as the fixed drop link bar. Am I right? Thanks

[@tonyyu3998]

No, the KDSS vs non-KDSS is not beefier. The reason why the KDSS does not have more roll is because of the linked hydrolic rams keeping the front and rear from leaning or twisting relative to one another at higher speed (e.g. as you said “on the roads”). In the off-road situation and under low speed, it essentially deactivates the hydrolic rams giving it the most range or droop possible.

[@Jim-s6i3b]

The sway bar on KDSS is beefy so that alone will help with body roll.

[@lcorr090k6]

@AccuTuneOff-Road Can you please clarify the difference between KDSS and Fox shocks? Why we pay extra for Fox Shocks over KDSS? Thank you

[@accutuneoffroad]

They are 2 separate things and can both be used together. This Tech Article may help: accutuneoffroad.com/kdss-suspension-tech/accutuneoffroad.com/kdss-suspension-tech/

[@lcorr090k6]

@@accutuneoffroad That page won’t open

[@accutuneoffroad]

@@lcorr090k6 sorry the link was pasted twice: accutuneoffroad.com/kdss-suspension-tech/

[@lcorr090k6]

@@accutuneoffroad Thank you

[@HarveySpectre1]

Currently faced with a dilemma. Looking to buy my first brand new 4runner and I'm stuck between TRD Off Road for its KDSS and TRD PRO for its re-sale value. (I'm not an off-roader, just live in Canada where winters get pretty bad). Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

[@accutuneoffroad]

If you plan to upgrade the suspension then no need to get the TRD Pro.

[@HarveySpectre1]

@@accutuneoffroad no plans to mess around with suspension. Thanks.

[@mengzilla6496]

If you can get the Pro send it! if not, it's just a waste of money. I have the4Runner Off Road 2023 KDSS will plan to upgrade next year on the shocks :)@@HarveySpectre1

[@corwininadsm]

If you want a lift just get KDSS spacer's

[@luvslogistics1725]

Can you add it after? My ORP doesn’t have it.

[@accutuneoffroad]

Add KDSS? I'm not too sure to be honest, would be very pricey im sure. Its really not needed

[@fallguy6558]

Is KDSS for extreme off roading? How does it affect highway driving ? Thanks

[@accutuneoffroad]

Yes and no. Depending on what type of off-roading you plan on doing it may limit your suspension travel

[@paulkang267]

Any tutorials on removing and rebuilding rear KDSS parts?

[@accutuneoffroad]

Not from us, no. There may be something out there though, just not something we will mess with.

[@greenlantern1016]

Do you have a branch here in Virginia?

[@accutuneoffroad]

No we do not, just one location here in San Diego. accutuneoffroad.com/

[@MF-rw3rb]

Thank you. 👍Definitely will not be getting KDSS.

[@curtismayne1]

Anyone thought of making a small spacer for the kdss mounts

[@danielduran5771]

curtismayne1 There is a company called Sonoran Steel that makes an aftermarket pan hard bar that clears the KDSS components and allows for more articulation.

[@accutuneoffroad]

@@danielduran5771 Without their track bar the driver side can have 1/2" more droop than the passenger side before the track bar hits the sway bar. Their track bar fixes that interference and allows for another 1/2" of droop on the driver side. There is no solution for the passenger side, so if you choose to run longer shocks and a track bar the driver side will have 1" more droop than the passenger side. We are happy to setup shocks for this configuration, but most people prefer to have their shocks stop right when the sway bar maxes out on the passenger side.

[@danielduran5771]

AccuTune Off-Road Right on....thanks for the information. Really appreciate all your content and insight. Keep it up.

[@erichdiebenow4727]

@@accutuneoffroad ok but what about the new spacers? Does that solve the problem?

[@accutuneoffroad]

@@erichdiebenow4727 Black Gate KDSS drop brackets? Yes it certainly helps with clearance issues.

[@RJ-vc2ju]

Man, if you're going to try and explain KDSS you really need to educate yourself on suspension dynamics first. Of course if you just want to install longer shocks and springs for "extended" travel it's going to run into geometry issues. That's why you see an aftermarket UPC in this video. The front KDSS issue you note is completely fixable with a KDSS spacer on the sway bar fixed mount. Same for the rear but it also needs the trackbar geometry corrected with a lower mount extension. It's "techs" like you that oversimplify what is possibly one of the most engineering-intensive areas of vehicle design and handling/safety efforts for a manufacturer and sell uneducated customers an "improvement" that very often compromises vehicle dynamics and safety.

[@accutuneoffroad]

Thanks for the feedback. This video is 3 years old and since then, there have been a few companies offering KDSS drop brackets to help with the issues discussed in this video. In fact, we offer KDSS spacers on our website and even include them in some kits.

[@michaelfletcher1224]

This video is helpful and I learned a lot from it but this one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5bWmZlqZZZ1Zs0 if much better at explaining the lost droop (or lack there of) on the fixed side. I'd suggest watching both.

[@accutuneoffroad]

Totally agree, Kai does a great job in all of his videos.

[@laughoutlloyd8]

droop*

[@jaycee6443]

I want to delete my kdss, rather pay 2400 in lift then replace leaking kdss shock

[@TonyTundra5.7]

If you remove it I'll purchase it from you let me know

[@docholliday7548]

KDSS. One more thing to leak/break. NO thanks. KISS!

[@ktkl68]

I have stock 2015 LC. The left side is half inch lower than the right. My local Toyota mechanic said it has no safety issues and I should leave it alone but I cannot imagine half inch lean to one side is normal and okay. What’s your solution?

[@accutuneoffroad]

It is pretty normal for vehicles to lean to one side. Gas tank and battery are usually the reason. If you have adjustable coilovers in front, you can add preload to offset the lean.

[@ErnestoMorin]

Good info. Only thing I would say is there are a lot of people that have KDSS and did 3” lift in the front and 2” in rear.

[@accutuneoffroad]

Getting a true 3" of lift out of the front is possible, but likely will have the shock nearly topped out at ride height. More details on that can be found here: accutuneoffroad.com/oem-front-coilover-shock-setup/

[@Mjr1348]

I know this vid is older but I have a 16 4Runner Trail Ed. “with” KDSS. I just got my 23 4Runner and ordered “without” KDSS. I really notice no difference when driving either one.

[@Jim-s6i3b]

I notice a big difference

[@khoroshsabzi]

Is it better to get a 4Runner without kdss? Are they not good for off road? Also, apparently 4Runners can cost as much as a BMW X3 fully loaded. Why is a 4Runner that expensive?

[@KLucero22]

Because 10 years from now the BMW X3 will be in a salvage yard but the 4Runner will still be going strong. Look up the 5 year true cost of ownership of a BMW X3 and compare it to the cost of ownership of a 4Runner and you’ll find the BMW much more expensive. And the difference becomes more obvious after 5 years