5.0L FIGHT-302 FORD VS 305 CHEVY-FULL RESULTS

TOTALLY 80'S TECH! 302 FORD VS 305 CHEVY. NA, HCI MODS, SUPERCHARGED-ITS ALL HERE IN Part 2 of the 5.0L Fight. Ford 5.0L 302 vs Chevy 5.0L 305. Back in part 1,we covered the 5.0L TPI 305 Chevy. Now we take a look at the Legendary 5.0L Ford, stock, with heads, Cam & Intake-then with a TorqStorm supercharger.

[@itsoundzgood]

This guy is like the Mythbusters but for engines.

[@brianfrost303]

@Chris L perhaps you could do some of your own dyno videos addressing whatever it is you consider richard to be wrong about?

[@RegulerShowTV]

Chris L explain

[@robertpolicastro1]

Chris L you have a degree in engineering? How about 30 years or so building turbocharged and supercharged engines? Oh did you say no? SHUT YOUR pie hole and kick rocks!

[@coenkaden2889]

Instablaster.

[@slandrum7350]

I just watched a youtube video of the 1989 silver state classic. It showed a young Holdener out there running the snot out of his new mustang. Much respect!!

[@johnsheetz6639]

I had that on vhs!

[@zapa47]

Found it kzbin.info/www/bejne/m16zd5mtrbdmibM

[@VcArena]

I didn't know that was him lol. I remember the mustang having only exhaust work and hauling ass

[@fulltimber]

Haha he had hair back then 👨🏻

[@281cobracar7]

@@zapa47 - haven't seen this in years. Thanks.

[@fascistpedant758]

Both engines did great. Over 600 hp is more than enough for a street Camaro or Mustang of that vintage. Thanks.

[@johnboticki9154]

Agreed. And 6400 rpm works for me

[@SubePelayo928]

On two bolt mains

[@buckfutter99]

600 is plenty for anything on the street😂

[@sebbonxxsebbon6824]

My Corvette came with a 4 bolt main block and a 4 inch bore, what would a 383 make supercharged? I bored and stroked the stock motor and boy what a difference.

[@sebbonxxsebbon6824]

vs a 347 Ford stroker! That was a Ford popular stroker in the day.

[@rogergm92]

I'm not a Chevy engine guy anymore. I'm now a "just add boost" guy

[@charleslowe522]

Me too. All the vehicles I owe are turbo charged, with the exception of my 2000 Regal GS which has a supercharger, but not for long.

[@zREDDINGTONz]

Haha same dude. Doesn't matter the engine.. is it slow? Just order a Ebay turbo and you're good to go!

[@rogergm92]

@Brett Collins well, turbo and it's needs. Injectors, fuel pump, tune, wg, bov, temp issues, oil passages. I've just built a couple turbo LS and I now I just see them as the general way to go

[@papacapra1908]

Love that old school 5L tech. They make crap for power compared to modern engines but a 5L Ford is what made me a car guy. Good job. Keep them coming.

[@richardholdener1727]

they started all this craziness

[@cabbage4372]

And really, how often is the full 600hp used, in a daily. A good dose of grunt, like both the Ford and Chev have, and you’re good to go. The iron block 308/304 Holden here in Australia ran 4.0 bore spacing. It did pretty well for itself.

[@PureCountryof91]

@@RadRidesByCru and tuning. The ecm on the 5.3 is just great for tuners. Not many PCM options on an efi 302.

[@chrishansen7004]

@@RadRidesByCru not really man the 5.3 is just a way better engine in every aspect, way better tuning, fuel economy reliability driveability etc people run stock engines all the way up too 1000 horsepower and can't kill the damn things and with the Ford you have to do a full aftermarket rebuild basically if your looking past 400HP reliably and you already are rebuilding basically if your putting a stroker kit in it, the 5.3 will be cheaper to buy than a stroker kit in the first place as well it's just a way better platform but on the other hand the coyote platform murders like its name was Ted Bundy

[@bobdobalina8910]

Well, what do I know? Lol. I was an 80s guy and always believed that the Ford 5.0L was the Better Engine in Comparison to the Smoger 305 bowtie, thought it made more Power and Torque, because the 'Stang felt alive while the Bowtie felt reserved. I had friends that owned one or the other, and the 'Stang always felt wild in comparison, just better pick up and straight line acceleration. Handling went to the Bowtie. 608 HP! WOW!!! Thanks for the great in depth comparison.

[@Guns_N_Gears]

Almost 30 years ago, my buddy had a stock 84' Z28 with a 305HO 5 Spd. We sreet raced that thing all the time, and every Mustang we raced....lost. Those guy's ALWAYS had excuses, but the clipboard we carried didn't lie. Thanks for the memory of the days past, LS is where it's at!!!

[@mistered9435]

Guns N Gears I had an ‘84 z28 L69 H.O. 5-speed back in 1991. My car had no a/c, no power accessories, and what became the 1LE package the following year. My car was as it came from the assembly line except for a nice stereo system. It beat the stock Stangs every time. There was a guy in town who had a 1986 5.0 stang. We raced several times, but it was always a driver’s race. He had deep gears, headers, and a/c. The last time we raced, I lost due to a broken shift fork in the T-5. For those dark days of smog-bred wheezers, both the Camaro and mustang kept the spirit alive. At the same time, my brother had an ‘85 IROC with the anemic LG4 5.0. He wouldn’t even try to race my L69

[@Guns_N_Gears]

@@mistered9435 ah yes, the good ol days!! Thanks for sharing you're memories, as it brings even more back to me from the day God do I miss the 2nd gear launches from about 30, just hearing that spreadbore howl. Now days, I'd be happier than a Pig in shit to have any of those cars, cause a Guy could work on them without the aid of a Computer.

[@freedomfighter5054]

That’s too funny because I had a 1970 mark one 351 Cleveland for barrel heads high rise and I eat a lot of Irox and some hem I hate it I rock that was like a Guido car

[@Guns_N_Gears]

@@freedomfighter5054 maybe so, but as I recall, the video was about the Ford 5.0

[@Rocky-cg9nl]

Loved this comparison. That was a great point about the bore size I hadn't really thought about that before!

[@LSXvoodoo]

I would love to see you try a big bang on a built Dart block 347, 363, 400, 408, 418 or 427 Sbf.

[@big6red389]

Agreed

[@aaronliddell4280]

Me three

[@771bjy]

Thank Richard! Keep ‘em coming! I really enjoy your vids!

[@directorwiechern1474]

Keep up the good work Richard. I own Aussie built 5.7 so partial to and loving all your ls builds/tests. Cheers

[@jeffclark2126]

Richard. Thank you for these daily videos, they lend some bit of normalcy to these crazy times.

[@QuicKurtZX14R]

36k subscribers and climbing, this channel definitely deserves more boost !!!!!

[@allenlane5018]

Can’t get enough 5.0 Ford stuff I have 2

[@Turbo4Joe363]

Ahhhh.....the memories! Thanks for the comparison Richard!! I'm the original owner of an '85 GT 5.0 (last year of the Holley carb Mustangs) I did plenty of my own 'comparisons' back in the day vs. IROC-Z 305s..... and they always lost. I especially loved the 5.7L IROC-Zs because their owners KNEW that they had a better motor than the 305. Unfortunately for them.... my little 302 walked them almost as badly as the 305s. Now I've got a built 363 SBF/Magnum 6 speed and the 3,100 lb '85 GT is wicked fast.

[@trillrifaxegrindor4411]

sadly,you went up against tbi's and the lowly lg4 carbed 305........they are the most used engines in the irocs(cheaper) if you met a few lb9 (tpi) 305's with the stick you would have had a much harder time.the tpi autos were also not the best,much like the l98 350 with a shitty 4 speed auto and poor gears...apples to apples these cars (mustang/iroc/ t/a )with the 5.0 and 5 speed were pretty evenly matched

[@lordhumungous7908]

Thanks for the lesson on bore and stroke. BTW, we had 302 Clevelands with 2V heads in Australia, .

[@MODOORTEK]

Thank you Richard for your videos, i really like you teaching style of fact based information. I will use your video library when building my turbo 2500hd build and save so much time and money because of your actual results not marketing promises !

[@brianfrost303]

Loving the variety. These old small blocks are still a great platform with lots of potential. Would love to see a small block mopar if possible!

[@richardholdener1727]

I have only ever built 1 360 Mopar and pulled it out of my running van

[@brianfrost303]

@@richardholdener1727 surprising to hear you've only built one. howcome you pulled it out?

[@nich1067]

Why i love your videos. You give a fair shake no mater what manufacturer of the engine. Killer info

[@richardholdener1727]

I like them all

[@fitzeesfabrications]

Was amazed at the 5 liter Chevy na power. Back in the early 90s I seen many ford and Chevy battles street racing, we never had a drag strip, the 305 camaro/ firebirds were dirt. The mustangs would eat them. You say both run close to the same numbers but you need to realize that a 90s camaro was alot heavier then a 90s mustang so that 3 or 400 pounds made a big difference. Brought back some good memories. Thanks.

[@Ws6Ms]

depending on the models fully loaded GT was 3200lbs easy.... fbody wasn't to far off....... the old 3rd gens and foxbody are feather weights compared to the new generation lol

[@doubleg1328]

That was my experience on the street as well and that is based on owning 2 3rd gen TPI Camaros and 3 Fox bodied 5.0L cars in the 80's. The "Five Ohs" always outran the 305 TPI cars and usually hung with the 350 TPI F-Bodys up to about 130 mph. I think the real difference between the two was most TPI cars had automatic transmissions with stock torque converters and rear gear changes were not commonly done due to cost at the time. Where "most" 5.0L Fox cars had 5sp manuals with better gearing and a rear gear ratio swap was a cheap and common upgrade at the time. (Personally liked the 3.73 rear gears in the 8.8") I feel this is why the Mustangs ruled the stoplight races back in the day with basically the same or even a little less power as the TPI cars, better gear leverage was in Ford's favor back then. Fun memories!

[@zerohourdrift]

Fitzee's Fabrications they weighed basically the same... the lightest v8 camaro was ballpark 3200 pounds, the lightest mustang was like 3100 and change... less than 100 pounds is absolutely nothing....

[@freedomfirst5420]

I would never spend the money on a 305 Chevy, I would rather replace it with a 350. The Ford 302 is a much better engine, to spend money on.

[@deantape2759]

How so? 302 often splits the block at 600hp +

[@ttank1994]

And that's why the 305 never got too much love from the aftermarket because the 305 and 350 had exactly the same outside dimension. Anywhere a 305 would go a 350 would bolt right in and look better. That's not the case with the 302 vs. 351 ford. The 302 was a short deck and would fit better between the narrow strut towers of the fox body.

[@mjcmustang]

@@deantape2759 run a Boss 302 block

[@510Redneck]

@@ttank1994 Though true, the 327's was very sought after and people often pulled their 350's to stuff in a 327's (especially with some double hump heads).

[@robinesavage404]

@@deantape2759 fake news....

[@petejoseph8257]

5.0 Ford block had some limitations. Thin wall casting splits in the Valley, main caps need support.

[@richardholdener1727]

unfortunately main cap support doesn't stop the splitting-its the other direction

[@storminnorman1932]

Thanks for that trip back in time. Im afraid even in this lockdown I cant grow a respectable mullet.

[@calvinmathers]

Good video, much respect for anyone who is not a ford or chevy guy and is just an engine guy.

[@jandsmarineservicejimfromd4994]

Very cool , some day I would love to see a old school Ford FE testing.

[@richardholdener1727]

me too

[@muskyelondragon]

@@richardholdener1727 Haven't seen you since those open road races in Nevada. You look good. Cool channel. Good content. 👍

[@falconater68]

Expensive I know but I've always wanted to see a small big block shootout. 390,396,389 etc...be cool.

[@hibbabibba5765]

@@richardholdener1727 I'm seeing the FE guys building this 445 configuration. I know FE's parts are pretty interchangeable from 352 up to 428. Id like to see what you would come up with. Thanks!

[@edwardspaccarelli5944]

I was hoping Godzilla was going to be an all-aluminum, injected 427FE. Now THAT would have been a real monster. A legend reborn!

[@georgethomas3102]

Finally some videos of a real engine! We need More Windsor videos!!

[@TrojanHorse1959]

Nice build and test Richard, thank you! P.S. My 302 build is very similar and made similar power too. It made 405 hp & either 385 or 395 ft. lbs. of torque.

[@roughboygarage1475]

Great comparisons. Would've liked to have seen both boosted graphs overlayed to see the differences of the curves

[@davelowets]

Back in the day, with the 5.0 Ford engine in the Mustangs, I seem to recall 275-280h.p. being the "standard" horsepower number with the "usual" bolt-ons done to them. I realize that there were many that made much more than that, but it seemed to be the common number for a guy that didn't want to dig into the short block, and just bolted on the usual speed parts.

[@mikem9536]

I remember the 5.0 ford engines constantly overheating and needed to be rebuilt, the 305 is rock solid.

[@jimmy_olds]

Ahh the days where the Ford guys would ask their buddies “did you go with the B or the E 303 cam and are you going shorty or full length headers?” and Chevy guys would ask their buddies, “when ya gonna tear that FI shit off and throw a Holley on it?”

[@rudolphclark2135]

You are right! Lol,those were the days!😂👍

[@bartpang]

The tuned port was a great truck motor.

[@ShyaMiss]

@@bartpang it really was. Such a shame that they never realized that it should be used in that fashion.

[@blakestewart6644]

True story. The stealth ram helped things out alot when holley released it 12 years after the last tpi engine was made and nobody gave a crap anymore, but i cant tell you how many times i saw carbs where there should have been a tpi manifold.

[@MegaSheila12]

B cam

[@andycrawl2128]

Love these videos Richard. Keep it up

[@chris2170]

Keep em coming. Great info.

[@rideswift]

Great comparison, only thing I can say is that pretty much no one uses the 305 SBC as a performance build. As you stated, the bore is the limiting factor.

[@christianmotley262]

Actually it's not the bore, a smaller bore makes a faster burn, the 305 is usually low compression with not much of an aftermarket piston selection.

[@cefdoctor]

Would love to see that 302 with the heads back to back tested na with a few different intake manifolds on it.

[@TheCulnes]

I really wish someone could do some load testing with them to help settle what makes the best compromise on a street driven car rather than pure 1/4 miles times.

[@maxlink3914]

Sorry rich, i started this morning but I'm back to finish the vid now! I'll have you know I'm always either getting ready for work or washing dishes watching your vids. Watch whenever i can 👌

[@richardholdener1727]

do what you can brother and stay safe

[@danielfouardlibertarianono8017]

Guys like you show guys like us how to get the most bang for our bucks. It's nice to know roughly how much gain to expect from the components we put on our engines. And saves a feller the disappointment of spending a lot of money on junk that won't make power. Thank you for what you do. These types of KZbin videos really mean a lot to us. GOD bless you.

[@totensiebush]

I'd love to see a bore vs stroke comparison, something like a Chevy 302 vs 305 with same heads, cam, compression

[@jimmyboy131]

Probably can't use the same 302 heads on a 305 due to the 305's smaller bore. That's the reason why 305 head choices are limited.

[@ts302]

Another great video Richard! A few questions, 1. what was the CR 2. Total timing 3.for overall output, are the 3/4" headers best or a smaller diameter pipe 4. rocker ratio 5.truth or myth-5.0l blocks split above 500HP(?). If true, what year blocks? I own a 76 vintage 302 and don't want to damage the original block in my stang. Thank you, Tony

[@COLDROLD73]

Love this format BTW!

[@AcesReaper]

Just subbed love your content really informative keep up the awesome work

[@richardholdener1727]

Welcome aboard!

[@troydecker9685]

Id like to see a 302 DZ Chevy aginst a 302 Ford. Just for the bore and stroke similarities.

[@xxxmikeyjock]

the rarest chevy vs the most common ford....that test is boss302 vs dz...and chevy guys do not like that test at all

[@martyjohnsonozarkoutdoors8198]

@@xxxmikeyjock I'd like to see a 396 destroked to 2.9" to give 305 cubic inches. Compared to the boss 302. Both would have big angled valves.

[@HioSSilver1999]

@@xxxmikeyjock we like it fine since the dz302 stomped the furd 302 on track.

[@triplestangman]

@@HioSSilver1999 lmao not even close the dz was good but the boss was just that

[@bartpang]

@@xxxmikeyjock The DZ302 ran right with the Boss 302 especially on the track.

[@johnwoodworth248]

My buddy broke a bunch of stock 302 ford blocks they seem to crack from the lifter vally to the mains usually about the 600 mark on the 1/4 Mile

[@bryanmayes9234]

My buddy split a block in half around 5-600hp

[@kawicepticon8866]

500 ish they split...

[@-MacCat-]

Great fact based comparison. Thanks Richard.

[@GroovesAndLands]

306, hand ported twisted wedges, GT40 intake, X303, shorty headers and a Pro M maf matched to a set of 30lb/hr injectors on the A9L ecu. Back in the day!

[@ufarkingicehole]

Also... I would be more interested to see them both pushed to the limits of the short block to see which one is stronger

[@chrismcculloch4751]

Awesome video . I've had both engines and was impressed with both back in the day with what simple bolt ons that were available . Also the 302 will always out shine the the 305 . The 350 is Chevrolets golden child

[@vinceyoung5912]

You are very wrong. The 350 is a great engine and responds well to mods. The 327 was always intended to be a performance engine. The 350 debuted in 1967 and wasn't a performance engine until 1970. The 327 debuted in 1962 and was the highest rated sbc ever in 1963 at 365 hp in the corvette.

[@chrismcculloch4751]

If you will read correctly I said the 305. And it is very true the 302 always has and will out shine the 305

[@vinceyoung5912]

@@chrismcculloch4751 if you read correctly you said the 350 is chevy's golden child. I said it wasn't.

[@chrismcculloch4751]

Well I reckon opinions are like assholes everybody has one

[@chrismcculloch4751]

Also the 327 is a darn good engine . I've had a couple hundred in my life time but not being able to get it in a 4 bolt main in my book makes the 350 the best engine as far as price , easy to find, and just an all out great motor and the most used engine ever built

[@jameshenson4871]

Way back when Richard would have his own column in MM&FF I would anxiously wait every month to read what new project he tested. He always gave incredible information. Thanks Richard well over 20years I am still impressed. Just a tad bit of information-I owned a chassis dyno business for years and to this day still tune multiple software's. It takes alot to impress me. Thanks for your hard work. Most on here DO NOT realize the commitment and time required just to perform these test. Once again- thank you for this content!

[@richardholdener1727]

thnx for the support

[@jameshenson4871]

@@richardholdener1727 Again, thanks for the content. You have been an inspiration in my endeavors. Deep inside I am a Ford guy but i appreciate anything internal combustion. My 2nd choice is Hemi. There isn't anything like a Hemi pounding the dyno or dragstrip. In your free time would you please do a solid vs hyd roller comparo on a sbf? I am currently putting together a solid roller sbf for the street. I feel you would give the facts & no opinion on the setup.

[@robertwest3093]

Kudos for buying your Mustang new and KEEPING it! I've owned four and am itching for a fifth one but the explosion in all car prices has kept me out of the game 😢

[@maldodanny]

Richard, I would like to see a comparison of that TFS intake vs the Box R intake vs the GT40 intake.

[@ewetoobz3840]

I'd like to see that too, but I think the GT40 would lose a bunch upstairs. It's runner's cross sectional area is pretty small.

[@TheCulnes]

Its been done plenty of times in the magazines and few other places. Like a lot of guys, I'm afraid to drop big money on the RPM2/Systemax 2/TFS R or some such thing and then hate the way it drives at everything that isn't WOT. Doesn't sound cool on youtube but its nice to not have to downshift to roll up a hill or pass traffic.

[@PureCountryof91]

@@ewetoobz3840 the ford does well. The gt40-gtp kit scooted a 4000# explorer quite well. And scoots my 3250# ranger even better.

[@michaelarrington9478]

Everyone had a stang back in the day. Friend of mine built a record automatic car. Maybe a deep dive in your car so people can see how they did it on the first real fuel injected platform

[@deanstevenson6527]

BuzzLOLOL : So did the Cosworth Vega, with an optional T50 Saginaw based, Borg Warner style 5 speed too for 76. Sadly, GM, often THE pioneers things with true excellence, THEN backs down. The Olds 350 EFi in the Caddillac was exceptionally smart. The Olds 403 in the Firebird TA was really powerfull. The Olds 350 diesel block was a great prostreet engine base The Olds 307 was a great post malaise era Hurst Olds B muscle car. Gm just needed to keep up the halo end of common coupes and not soley rely on Corvettes and Caddy's for image and tech. Again, having a whole approach. The 305 with the right Brodix Pontiac style heads would have made the F body or MonteCarlo a real riot for many years.

[@paulmbylbie6065]

That's actually a great compareson Richard....thank you

[@shitbox7413]

I had a TPI 305 F body for a little while in the late 90’s, was a lot of fun for what it was. 👍🏻

[@timothybayliss6680]

That na power curve looks like a 4.8l ls with a cam swap.

[@bcbloc02]

So where is the 318 Dodge? Heads, intake, cam, turbos, lets go! :-)

[@TheProchargedmopar]

bcbloc02 👍

[@Joshie2256]

Dodge and Plymouth were completely absent from the Pony car segment in the '80s. And no V8 had port EFI until 1991. The Magnum small block is a low RPM truck engine and would be pathetic in this comparison.

[@s0meguy809]

@@Joshie2256 Wrong. The only thing that makes the Magnum engines "truck engines" is the fact that they are biased towards low rpm torque. Change the heads, cam and intake like Richard did with the 5.0 and 305 TPI and you'd get similar results.

[@Joshie2256]

@@s0meguy809 Okay, so what was Dodge's 80s-90s pony or muscle car? A Daytona turbo? Omni GLHS? Wait, the Dodge Stealth R/T. That compares to a Camaro right? The only thing the Magnum small block came in were trucks and vans. There really isn't a good EFI Magnum intake manifold, only carb manifolds converted to EFI or modified stock intakes with a too-small runner cross section. I'm a Mopar guy and Mopar had zero RWD performance cars in the 1980s.

[@s0meguy809]

@@Joshie2256 That doesn't mean the magnum engine can't make some power. There's currently a stroker magnum zj grand cherokee that runs 9's on spray. Indy or Edelbrock heads, Hughes air gap and a cam in a 318 will make some nice power. It would have been nice if there were more efi intake choices. Problem was most guys that swapped magnums in older cars stuck with carbs.

[@ToprankImporters]

Great video as always.

[@GUE5TPA55]

by being honest you have earned my subscription

[@aviator97msncom]

The ford tended to split the block when you got over 500 hp. They developed a reinforcement brace but it had limited success.

[@robertpolicastro1]

Only with nitrous oxide over 700hp. I ran a stock block w/ mild cam and a big ass turbo off of a catapiller generator made more than 700hp but it blew head gaskets all the time. Lol

[@sammysampson183]

@@andrewjolley3620 Bad tune kills more blocks than anything, but you are right about rpm. Keep it under 6,000 rpm and it will take a lot of power with a good tune.

[@lc393stroker]

Have you done 350vs351?

[@texasinnovativeperformance6439]

Finally a 5.0. Now on to the 351 Great video

[@jeffmays930]

Great video and awesome power gains. Really appreciate these incremental increase comparisons. I have one question. How much of a difference would 1-5/8" headers have vs the 1-3/4" used in test?

[@TheProchargedmopar]

Good stuff, Up next 318 dodge with china heads. 😝 Disinfect first before handling. 🦠

[@justinriley8651]

that sucker would make at least 200 hp ! if you put new heads ,headers,bigcam,big carb,10:1 pistons and mopar stickers. that's an increase of 50hp all for less than 3000 dollars!

[@TheProchargedmopar]

Justin Riley I thought they made 180hp stock, or was it 160? 😝. 273ci was rated at 275hp. You'd have to install slant 6 heads with 2 cylinders lobed off to get 200hp.

[@justinriley8651]

@@TheProchargedmopar ours brand new in 1989 made 150hp.

[@frtaylor29]

I’m a simple man. I see a Richard Holdener video, I click. Then I click like. 👍🏼

[@richardholdener1727]

simple and effective

[@josephkugel5099]

@@richardholdener1727 Did you or do you plan on doing a video comparing the Chevy 350 vs Ford 351W in a similar way with pros and cons for each and showing each ones ability to make power?

[@EricErnst]

I'm a bowtie guy but I can't argue with the big bore/short stroke of a 302. Allows bigger valves and better flowing heads than the 305. I'd like to see a Chevy 302 vs a Ford 302 shootout. Same bore and stroke. Similar cams. Similar heads. Hell, even a 350 vs 351.

[@robertobetancourt7881]

Great video Rich👍🇵🇷

[@michaelarrington9478]

Hey Rich your car was missing a couple hundred pounds of ground effects

[@Richard-gy1fo]

Nice a guy that does the comparisons everyone wants. Now who will win a grizzly or a silverback. Lmao

[@donaldcameron8909]

You are the person I know that gave a comparison to Ford's 302 with Chevs 305 ever ! I'm surprised

[@chestrockwell8328]

This brought back some memories. in 1987 and 88' I had a bone stock 84' GT with T-tops, even had the goofy TRX wheels. The 305 GM cars couldn't compete on the street, not even close; the 350 cars were a drivers race, always very close and lots of fun. Although one day an older dude (at the time, I'm an older dude now) was in a 83-85 turd brown stock looking RS Camaro, we got into it on the freeway, he left me big time ...as the kids now say, I was gapped. Never saw that car again as I have always wanted to know what he had under the hood.

[@chestrockwell8328]

@port nut I always have thought he had the bottle, there were to big black puffs of smoke as he was pulling away during a shift.

[@454ho]

That cam work with stock pistons? How much hp with GT40 heads? Love the vids!

[@matthewvarnam4302]

I would think you would get less HP/TQ cos on the GT/40 heads are iron and they come with smaller valve's and the trick flow heads you can get the 2.02 valves. The trick flow heads just seems to be a better choice but I don't think it would be that big huge difference.

[@truckfreak4537]

Trick flow heads are sweet but that’s a lot of money for a 302. Would love to see junkyard gt40 explorer heads with a lil porting

[@alanb2845]

Eric Blatz I did a 331 junkyard build with gt40p and explorer intake (wanted room for improvement down the road with better heads). Fully ported the intake and exhaust bowls and polished the ports and port matched the lower to the heads to straighten the runners. N41 cam 10.5:1 compression makes good power

[@smpstech]

But but but, Richard, everyone knows the second you make over 500hp on a stock 302 block it will crack like an egg! No exceptions! /s

[@ctmpeanut]

smpstech I would recommend you look up project stock bottom end on Facebook. These guys make 900hp if I remember correctly on a stock block

[@konnerkramer329]

They do commonly crack at 500-600hp. Putting an engine on the Dyno in a 60 degrees room while doing a couple seconds dyno pull is a hell of a lot different than driving 500 miles down the interstate when it's 105 degrees with the AC on. Or a 12-13 second race where the engine is very quickly changing rpm aka banging gears.

[@nathanbutler8240]

Timing dude everyone knows stock bottom end you're very conservative on timing to make it live

[@davescbradiorepair8195]

@@ctmpeanut that's correct

[@johnregnier7839]

RPM and boost is what takes out the block not hp

[@markcole6475]

I have an 87 5.0 t5 mustang I bought almost new! Had some mild mods…3.55 gears , underdrive pulleys, off road H pipe and a 65mm throttle body, air box silencer removed …other wise stock. A buddy bought 91 z28 ( the year with the big wing) 305 TPI T5 with 3.42 gear ….he changed the exhaust somewhat (not sure what he did) added a different air induction system, better ignition stuff etc….our cars were very close with cubic inch , 5spd and gear ratios. We raced dozens of times and I’d almost always beat him. …usually take him from a dig but sometimes I’d spin pretty good but still run him down by the end. I thought his car would dust my mustang but I was very surprised with the outcome ….wasn’t a fluke cause we raced each other a lot. My car at the time was running 13.6s to 13.8s depending on the day. He never took his car to a track but guessing it was a low 14 sec car.

[@jaredfarney675]

I really enjoyed the torque curve on the 302. The take away I got from the comparison is supercharger for the win.😎

[@slicedbread9003]

I had a Mustang and 5.0L Ford LTD (fox platform) so, I have some experience with the 5 liter Ford engine. One thing that I never liked about the 5 liter Ford is the low deck height. This causes the rods to move at a large angle relative to the pistons. Although the engine works fine, I always wondered if these rod angles had detrimental effects especially at higher rpm's? Any thoughts on that?

[@superkillr]

One of the last things even race engine builders think about. 100 other things to worry about before rod angle.

[@markmccarty9793]

We screened the crap outta the 302 Windsors! Shot 150 on them 3-4 times a night 3-4 times a week! Had aftermarket rod bolts! But, buy a 351w and heads intake and cam to start with! So much more low in torque!

[@MillhouseDSM]

We need a Big Bang stock bottom end 302

[@zerohourdrift]

Millhouse_Tuned that would be between 500 and 600 hp... they literally split in two

[@MillhouseDSM]

That’s what everyone says but I’d still like to see it

[@richardholdener1727]

it would be a lot more than that

[@Uglykidracing8.2]

@@richardholdener1727 I run a stock block 8.2 class and we make crazy hp with these stock blocks, and all mine are nitrous motors. They will hold way more power than people think with the right tunes.

[@Rubberweasel]

I actually don't miss pulling off injection and putting on carbs on either motor. Thanks for the awesome no BS info.

[@richardholdener1727]

we ran these both with carbs too

[@Rubberweasel]

@@richardholdener1727 back when it was Eprom tuning most guys just wanted something they could tune on their own. It just got kinda cooke cutter was all.

[@eformance]

The most impressive thing about this Ford combination is how well the Street Heat manifold did. I know they rated that manifold for idle-5500rpm, but I've got it on my car, and with the right cam it really does pull high into the rev range. I had my combo dynod right after I built it, no tuning, etc. At the wheels the E303 cam, TFS TW heads, and Street heat manifold made almost the same as the stock motor with no accessories. I had a valve spring break with the E cam, so upgraded to an XE270HR with new springs. That combo was also street tuned for about 4 years. I guessed it made 365HP and 390lb/ft of torque. After seeing your test I am feeling pretty confident in that estimate.

[@msk3905]

Back in the day I had a similar engine as you, TW 170s, B303, Street Heat, typical boltons, 3.73 and 1 5/8 shorty headers made 304rwhp. I almost went with XE270 but run out of money for increase for cam/springs since bought all add ons at once. Loved that engine, a blast to tool around town with.

[@kevind3185]

I'm surprised the Ford 302 didn't split the block down the lifter valley at over 600 horsepower.

[@michaelharris748]

U also gotta understand its an engine dyno no drag from things in the engine bay and it was running open headers. That 600 hp is prob 500 at the wheels inside the car likely not that much...point is these have been known to live up to around 500 rwhp depending on use and how its tuned. So its not surprising it stayed together ecspecially on a dyno where it isnt as stressed as it would be inside the car on the street or track doing hard pulls

[@hcrib1]

I've seen where guy's running that kind of power boosted with a girtle, and getting over 200 passes at the track before the block splitting.

[@hcrib1]

@andrew jolley these aren't from your average joe shmo. These are from people that race these mustangs regularly and own race shops. Check out Neo mustang here on KZbin. He raced on the stock 302 bottom end for a while and eventually put in a 351 which is the combo he's running now in his main car.

[@big6red389]

Its usually when you keep em at 600hp and start running em alot or racing them at that power level you put alot of strain on it and with that power output crack but just as a evernow and then thing itll take it just like that crank will take an 8rpm rev all day most will say it cant oh but it will the other stuff is all you have to work on the the cam rocker arms ect to take that rpm but the crank in a 302/5.0 will take 8rpm no prob

[@marcharris2734]

Amazing how tough ford blocks are. Chevy are paper thin in the intake valley.

[@foxbody8585]

I know the Chevy was new, and the Ford was from a bone yard but did you freshen up or ring gap... the Ford?

[@mikecorleone6797]

dean silva right? The chevy guys always do this.. they get new chevy stuff and always go for junkyard ford blocks n think the results will be “fair”

[@tortol4847]

@@mikecorleone6797 "Chevy guys always do this" Sure pal. I'm sure you see this stuff all the time. Because as we all know, there are tons of guys building similar engines to similar specifications and testing them on engine dynos. You saw this one video that had one flaw (new vs old) so your inner ford fanboy commands you to jump on it. I can't imagine being so weak minded that you're a slave to a company for no real reason other than a false sense of superiority that you get from supporting them. Or maybe I'm wrong, in which case you'll happily link me to an extensive amount of videos like this one where the "Chevy guys" (despite the guy owning a mustang and daily driving it) take an old ford engine and run it against a new chevy engine for the sake of comparison. They do it all the time, so this should be easy.

[@mikecorleone6797]

Corndog1911 actually almost every ford vs chevy video I’ve seen on youtube is always new chevy vs old ford or better quality parts for chevy n budget on ford all leading towards their goal of not allowing a ford to show it’s true power.. if you are going to do a ford vs chevy video do your research and actually level the field n play fair.. otherwise it’s just a 1 sided video on how a chevy fukboi tipped the scales in their favor and cheated the results..

[@tortol4847]

@@mikecorleone6797 Then it should be easy. Give me 3 examples.

[@mikecorleone6797]

Corndog1911 I’m sorry I’m having a really hard time taking someone named corndog seriously 🤣

[@ViewThis.]

Hey Richard, From my collection of stuff, I dug out an issue of Super Chevy Magazine, September 2014. And there you are on Page 56, dyno testing a 5.7 LS-1 for the Article "Edelbrock Goes Pro." And in the picture -- GASP! -- you had gray hair.

[@adam0bt]

this gives me hope for my combo, it may have more hp than i originally thought

[@bbbnnuuuhgg7016]

What I would like to know is, how long would the bottom end last with all that powering the 302

[@hcrib1]

I've heard of guys getting over 200 passes at the track before splitting the block.

[@jjd975975]

Everything was a crap shoot with the Mustangs back then, I wouldn't think very long. You're talking 550 rwhp.

[@coffelt683]

from what Ive seen, there are some unicorns which can hold 600whp all day long. But for the most part, 450-500whp is the limit if you want it to last. Personally I wouldn't go over 450whp if its a street/strip car since reliability is definitely a major factor.

[@hcrib1]

@@coffelt683 There's 2 different 302 blocks in those years. There's YYY and XXX. The XXX blocks supposedly have more nickel and slightly thicker main webs. I'm not sure how true that is, but all the mustang guy's I've heard of building blocks for boost use the XXX blocks because of that.

[@jjd975975]

@@hcrib1 heard that as well. The stronger may have referred to as a "mexican block?"

[@E1337Jerk]

@RichardHoldener plz talk about the blocks splitting

[@peterkay2406]

The 302 blocks splitting are the cheaper made blocks, have to look for the Mexican blocks that are much higher nickel content and can handle much more power, or you can also put a stud girdle on the mains on the cheaper block and it to can handle much more power

[@hilleryclifford2367]

Great explanation of both engines. Us chevy guys have known the benefits of the 4 inch bore since 1962 (327) when ford was still stuck at 289 ci. No one in their right mind has ever hotrodded the 305 when there are literally millions of 4 inch bore cases to work with.

[@cgarris8674]

No such thing as a Ford 289 in 1962, they were introduced in 1963 😁.

[@angelobovara317]

Mee too. Mid 1990s i had an 87 convertible. Began mods with sub frame connectors sll the way to a 347 stroker with a Vortech S trim. It was fun. But...dont do a convertible.

[@63Imp283]

Love this! How about 283 vs 289?

[@bbbnnuuuhgg7016]

😂😂

[@richardholdener1727]

I did a HiPo 289 build

[@63Imp283]

@@bbbnnuuuhgg7016 both are great motors. What's up?

[@martyjohnsonozarkoutdoors8198]

Please put a 3" stroke crank in a 350 some time with a comparable heads and cam set up.

[@michaelblacktree]

That would be cool.

[@philipmacduffie7612]

If it was all the same they would make the same power. Same bore, same stroke, same airflow, same cam, same compression, same curve.

[@dantyack177]

That would be a 302 chevy...that was the configuration of the 302's in the 68&69 z28's

[@Scootermagoo]

They call that a 302.. Or in chevyspeak a DZ302, they did it for the early camaros.. and like any overcammed underheaded chevy back in the day it made all it's power above 6000 rpm. So why rehash it? given the same head and cam specs they make the same power.

[@dantyack177]

My best friend in high school bought a 68 z28 with a dz302 in it our junior year in high school (1983)... Paid $2700 for it! ....it had very little bottom end power but loved to rev.. Ended up with a really nice set of bow-tie ported heads and an isky solid lifter flat tappet cam in it..and it ran great back in the day...but we changed out the bottom end with a 350 and picked up .7 and 4 mph in the quarter mile with no other change.. It was a fun car and a great time to be a kid..

[@nathanledee3140]

If this Chanel is a dream come true idk what is

[@lonnygil]

I am enjoying the channel. Thank you for that. Have you considered any testing on any 3 valve ford modular engines? 4.6/5.4/6.8? Most you would find in a wrecking yard would need the typical repairs to the timing components due to most owners lack of maintainence. Would be interesting to see how they stack up as far as mods and boost.

[@richardholdener1727]

I have run lots of 3V testing

[@davidjames2788]

I'm honestly impressed that the 305 held it's own so well. I've always heard it's useless because of its bore size. But I think you should test the only real 5.0 litre... The 307SBC haha.

[@zerohourdrift]

David James you’re forgetting the dz302... though the 307 is cool too

[@flweeptwo]

*I didn't know back then, I was already cool* Don't lie Richard, you knew you were cool the moment you were born

[@warrenstephens3705]

Richard, my favorite words are....."now lets add some boost"!!!

[@nedaCFilms]

Richard had one ultra-badass 5.0 Mustang that competed in the #CarCraft "Real Street Eliminator" Shootout back in 1991

[@richardholdener1727]

he still has it!

[@RealSprooseMoose]

Smokey Yunick always liked short strokes so he could fit the "longest damn rods" possible to get better rod angle to the crank on the power stroke. Have you done any tests with rod length?

[@michaelscott3123]

Engine masters just did that test, rod ratio made no noticeable difference on their big block.

[@richardholdener1727]

yes-rod length changed nothing

[@richardholdener1727]

you might be thinking about changes in stroke length

[@funfun8095]

👐

[@Fehrway_Engines]

I would love to see a -Vortec 5.7L 4.00” bore block -L99 4.3L 3.00” stroke crank -L99 4.3L 5.94” rods -Stock LT1 pistons -Stock LT1 roller camshaft -TPI intake manifold - heads of your choice & then see how much power GM left on the table by using a small bore Thank you for all of your videos.

[@richardholdener1727]

me too

[@AJKlos]

What an awesome video. I am a fan!!

[@karlsracing8422]

Ford: we had nothing! Dodge: you guys have cylinder heads?

[@sokodad]

5.0 Chevy was a boat anchor. Had two of them and they’re junk.

[@sebbonxxsebbon6824]

350 or go home.

[@jarrusjenkins]

Hey Richard.... is that a goatee I can see you growing? It looks good mate

[@MrDueyx99]

Rich, have you been told lately that you are the Man..... Bro, you ARE the MAN. Keep doing the lords work.

[@richardholdener1727]

I've been told a lot lately that I'm not

[@MrDueyx99]

tell them to kick rocks bud! haha