5.45 vs 5.56 Follow Up

[@maverickfoxbmsn]

The best ammo is the ammo that’s readily available in your area.

[@euph0rya672]

.22 lr 😭

[@jaksahn3370]

@@euph0rya672 you beat me to it 🤣🤣

[@praktikalnurse504]

Awesome video!! I wish I could have the production skill you have! Truthfully, the only advantage the 55 gr 5.56 ammo has over the 5.45 in tests I have performed, is the 55 gr 5.56 can pass through Level 3 armor plates at 15 meters, where the 5.45 just falls slightly short. I found no advantage from the 7n6 over other 59gr or 69gr 5.45 ammo, using NIJ standards. 5.45 ammo has always been cheaper in cost over 5.56 in my area, before the "panic-demic". That said, my first grab rifle will always STILL be my Russian Izmash chambered in 5.45x39. Thanks for this great video!

[@theAKGeek]

Glad you liked it! My production skills are sub par compared to a lot of people but I try my best lol

[@praktikalnurse504]

@@theAKGeek I do everything with my android phone, with whatever FREE editing app I can find. 😃 I have a good time showing people, not everything is what we are told, experimenting, and learning about new products.

[@Sam_the_Sham_and_the_Pharoahs]

I know right! I love my Izmash 545. Mines a Saiga that I've converted the fire control group on. I don't have the heart to change the sight block and gas block. I figured I'd keep it original because it shoots so lovely. Even without a brake, it's just perfect.

[@jaksahn3370]

@@theAKGeek definitely

[@BigSmartArmed]

Core differences; .223/5.56 is based on a stretched case varmint hunting .222 Remington. 5.45 was developed ground up as a military cartridge, with over a decade of research and development conducted by a dedicated military institution. .223/5.56 is not, and never has been a military cartridge, it's a commercial market adaptation that had to be continuously modified to fit military service requirements. There was an attempt to improve 5.56 case, specifically thickened web of the head and primer pocket area from 0.47" of.223 to 0.70" of 5.56, but weak case rim failures can not be fixed. Long case with little taper, weak case rim, .222/.223 was not intended for automatic action cycling, .222 was literally made for a BOLT ACTION GUN. While American civilians are locked into consumer end user mentality of "I paid for this therefore it's the best", on strategic and logistical levels 5.45 is vastly superior to 5.56 in every applicable category. For varmint hunting and sporting I like .223, it's a good high power .22 round, but it was never meant for military application, it was forced into adoption.

[@harrypeterson9287]

I disagree with your logic given the precedence 5.56 has set in trials. The M-4A1 had about 200 malfunctions in 70,000 rounds and most were failures to lock back on the last round and most others deemed magazine related. Not one mention of case head separation. You know as well as I do that 5.56 works fine in automatic weapons and has extremely low case related failures across a variety of platforms, when the case does fail it's always firearm related or the quality control of the ammo (eg sloppy headspace or over charged round).

[@BigSmartArmed]

@@harrypeterson9287 It's not "my logic" it's facts. If you have emotional issues with fact, it's your problem. .223 and 5.56 cases are not the same, and 5.56 are known for high peak chamber pressure that snap bolt lugs, specifically number 1 and number 7. .223 was born as a bolt action varmint round and 5.56 adaptation with stronger case and lengthened freebore to increase reliability did not make it into a full auto cartridge.

[@harrypeterson9287]

​ @bigsmartarmed 5.45 runs at 51,500 psi, 5.56 runs at 55,000. not a huge difference, they are both high pressure cartridges. The problem lies in the design of the ar-15, not the cartridge it fires, chamber the AR in 5.45 and you'll get the same issues. With that said we have tons of data on when and what parts tend to fail in terms of round count. It's not a roll of the dice whether or not a locking lug or extractor will break every time it fires as long as you have good quality parts. You'd have to shoot more money in ammo than the entire gun is worth before needing service and a new bolt every 10,000 rounds isn't a big deal. Look at AKs constantly chewing themselves apart and going out of headspace.

[@BigSmartArmed]

@@harrypeterson9287 My mistake, we clearly exist in different universes. I exist in a fact based universe and suffer those that exist in a delusional, emotion based universe. We speak different languages you and I, and it's not a matter of English, it's a matter of meaning. Look, it's this simple; according to CNN, AR owners are all crazy white supremacists terrorists so who needs facts when CNN is the only source of reliable news, and don't you dare try and disagree with it. All the while in a fact based reality, M855A1 runs at 42K PIS and causes broken lugs, firing pin seizure after about 600 rounds, and destroys feed ramps if EPMs or gen 3 pmags are not used.

[@edl653]

Good video - both rounds are close enough horse shoe play. - I am a "20" barrel fan as I love more speed, hence energy and flat trajectory.

[@Sam_the_Sham_and_the_Pharoahs]

I've always loved 545x39, it's a great cartridge. So is 556 and I'd never knock it, I shoot it albeit not that often. More of a 300 black out Ar kind of guy, but either one is a fantastic shooter. I just really prefer 545. Especially now, price wise. I wish I could get my hands on some Dynamit Nobel 5.45x39mm. That's some excellent shooting ammo.

[@UrbanTiger74]

Ya know its funny other vids always compare these calibers but there's always some caveat. Like one is shot out of SBR...545 being used is commercial...ball vs steel core...I think I wanna see a 74 shooting 7n6 and 5.56 ball out of a 20"and 16". I think that would be the definitive comparison. As for the targets...gel, cinder block, and thePaul Harrel famous meat target.

[@theAKGeek]

Wish I could get my hands on some ballistics gel and do the tests myself. Maybe someday

[@edl653]

m855a1 is a good round, but harsh on ARs, so harsh that the Navy, Marines and USAF decline to adopt it, Also it requires a mod-magazine to keep from wearing issues resulting from the additional length of the m855a1 round. Just making the note for those unaware.

[@Иванпонимаете-г4ш]

It's not really bad when you have an extra bolt it's a really hot round

[@Holret]

GarandThumb recently did a video of the 5.45x39 "poison bullet" and found some interesting results...

[@nemisous83]

I think you kind of overlooked this but all of m193's and M855's fragmentation is generally at short distance 50 yards in. Where 5.45 excels over 5.56 is terminal effects down range. Even at subsonic velocities you are still going to see yaw and tumbling where as 5.56 simply has straight line penetration with little TSC or PSC outside the diameter of the bullet. That's why grunts love 5.56 when they are clearing building in Iraq while lambasting it as ineffective in Ahfganistan due to poor energy retention and lack luster terminal performance at range.

[@theAKGeek]

I mentioned something similar to that in my original video. Thanks for the info!

[@dergunter1237]

the big issue is also that the 5.56 relies on barrel length of the weapon more than the 5.45 does but strangely most want to use something like a 14.5'' barrel AR pistol or shorter.

[@nemisous83]

@@dergunter1237 that too you are going to get the same terminal effect from a 10 inch krink as you are a 23 inch RPK 74

[@dergunter1237]

@@nemisous83 yep the only big effect barrel lenght has on the 5.45 is the penetration capability on 4hings like lvl 3 vody armor

[@nemisous83]

@@dergunter1237 well 5.45 won't penetrate level iii it's not traveling fast enough however armor penetration is kind of pointless past 50 meters not even m855a1 will penetrate level iii

[@AA-dn8dj]

To me 5.56 has never been something it wasn't. It was always an intermediate round, which is a halfway point between a rifle round and pistol round. And to that extent it's great at what it does, and so is 5.45. It can never be as strong as 30-06 or 7.92x57 or 7.62x51, but on the other hand it is much stronger than 9x19 or 5.7x28 or 45 ACP or whatever other pistol rounds are out there. Most of the rampant hate or love comes from people trying to say it can be as good as a full size rifle round or that it can't be better than their preferred brand of hand blaster.

[@Dcm193]

If we are talking fmj’s than m193 beats m80 ball any day

[@koaiaknl7013]

Well 5.56 does produce more damage but in all reality it's so close it doesn't make a huge difference unless you want to build a spr it's generally easier to build a spr in 5.56 based on an ar15 both r excellent options for general purpose use

[@theAKGeek]

Exactly

[@TheTeKuZa]

7n10m ballistic soap test is in Combat Approved video

[@theAKGeek]

Link?

[@jameskobi6111]

55gr hasn't been the main military round for over three decades. 77gr OTM and m855a1 are nowhere close to "niche." 556 projectile improvements have been constantly engineered for generations. 545 cannot claim this. You can hail your precious 7n6, but it's nearly impossible to obtain in the US, and 545's projectile improvements has remained stagnant in comparison to 556. Also, you never even touched on brass case vs steel case.

[@theAKGeek]

Couple points. 1. No nation has adopted 77gr OTM as a standard service cartridge, it's reserved to specialist marksman roles, or sbr's. So it's still a niche cartridge. M855a1 is a great round but it's still new on the world stage as it's only used by two major military organizations (U.S. Army and Marines) and is still developing a track record. That pales in comparison to the service record and proliferation of the m193 and m855/ss109 on a global scale. 2. 5.45 has had many variations over the years just like 5.56 (7n6, 7n10, 7n22, 7n24, 7n39, etc.) and has been engineered in different ways to respond to different needs. Any claim that it hasn't is just plain ignorance. 3. Brass vs steel is irrelevant when talking about wounding performance (which is what this video focuses on). 4. I acknowledged my own bias toward 5.45 in my original video and I said several times in this video that both cartridges are great and are so similar that you really have to split hairs to find any meaningful difference between the two. If you actually listened to the video you would have realized that lol

[@sethcalhoun9856]

Gotta do one on 7.62x39 vs 300 BLK

[@wadesipes9321]

I used to think the Russians used steel cases because they’re poor, which is probably true but I also suspect 7N6 is running higher chamber pressures than m855. It has to be, smaller diameter bullet and equal or greater velocity than M855 = higher pressure.

[@machine6487]

Your absolutely right. This other shit come’s from people that don’t shoot and they repeat things that are not true or they want something to be true that’s not.

[@brittainwoolley6848]

I stumbled upon this interestingly enough after watching your previous video just about an hour ago. Yes in your previous video you spoke with a heavy bias toward 5.45. it was neat to hear the differences between these two rounds but you did open saying that there were many differences which I thought was nitpicky. This being said I'm a 5.45 fan so I wanted to hear positives for it by comparison. Over the past week or so I've been contemplating switching over to 5.56 as my main. The 5.45 has truthfully been more readily available and cheaper than 5.56 over the course of the last year...until recently. Now, being a cartridge not high on the manufacturing priority list, it's virtually gone unless you want to pay more for it than .223/5.56. This alone is what has made me begin to question the future of 5.45. I believe it'll still be around for some time, possibly many years, but will it be easily available (at least online) and at a cheaper or equivalent price point with the 5.56? Hard to say. While it's nice that some domestic companies are producing the 74 I don't know if the higher price point of the foreign imports will drive down the popularity of the 5.45 to the point where it may no longer be worthwhile to use for price and availability considerations. Anyway, good follow-up video. If you want to provide any insight concerning your opinion on which cartridge is likely better to stockpile over the next decade I'm all ears.

[@theAKGeek]

In the U.S. its always a good idea to stock up on the domestic caliber since it is more widely available. However, the past year has shown that non domestic calibers become far more available during ammo crunches since everyone is rushing to get the most common domestic round. In my opinion having a go to rifle in 5.56 is a good idea, but a back up rifle in either 5.45 or 7.62x39 is a must for the reasons listed above. But if you have already stockpiled on a specific caliber before the next ammo crunch you should be fine with whatever your go to is.

[@brittainwoolley6848]

Currently my go-to calibers are 5.45 and 7.62x39. No matter what 7.62 will remain in the arsenal as it is my choice for barrier penetration with FMJ's and actually my in house/home defense round of choice as a soft point specifically. I live in a brick ranch so there's little concern for over penetration and it'll cause massive damage quickly. Outside the home/woods/SHTF scenario would be more focused on the 5.45 or 5.56 should I eventually switch to that.

[@Mkvine]

I think the main problem with 5.56 is that it depends on velocity for it to perform well, whereas 5.45 is less dependent on velocity for its tumbling effect.

[@theAKGeek]

Not entirely. Both rounds do decent out of SBRs. I've seen slightly better results from 5.45 out of SBRs but the different between the two is so minor that its really not an issue.

[@Mkvine]

@@theAKGeek Would you say that at least the 5.45 can perform on par with expensive match grace 5.56?

[@theAKGeek]

@@Mkvine depends on the ammo being used. Most 5.45 ball ammo performs similarly enough to 5.56 ball to make any difference between the two mostly irrelevant. Now when we start comparing 5.56 77 grain OTM or M855a1 to regular 5.45 ball (like 7n10) then it's not as fair of a comparison.

[@Mkvine]

@@theAKGeek Heresy!

[@harrypeterson9287]

@@Mkvine M855A1 outperforms every standard military round in its energy class. Good hard target penetration with violent and very rapid fragmentation in flesh.

[@theAKGeek]

Bottom line: You don't want to get hit with either one. Link to original video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGHdgWlpobekaas Best 5.45 and 5.56 ballistics comparison videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZXaamZngbCiiKM kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqq0dql6eLerqtk Videos showing 5.45 “fragmentation” kzbin.info/www/bejne/h37LnoeBmreSY8k kzbin.info/www/bejne/inKbgqtvnpJqhqc High speed of both 5.45 and 5.56 kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6m2fpKKe7Zlic0 kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y4DUZI17j5yMfNk

[@Im_TheSaint]

I feel like 556 ammo advanced further than 545. Is there even something as damaging as 855a1 or something as accurate as mk262mod1?

[@bmrz38]

Not in USA.

[@stip3m4m1c8]

Look for 7n22

[@ericyoung8386]

The 5.45 depends a lot less on velocity

[@JMane3000]

I'd choose 556 if I had to pick

[@cedrickmcdonald5038]

Finally! someone talking with some sense

[@kimbellbush1857]

THANK YOU!!

[@terryspalding3765]

I hate seeing guys run green tip ammunition. A lot of the reason people buy them is this common misconception around them being "armor piercing" LOL when that whole myth is completely false. M855 or "green tip" ammunition came around after criticisms around XM193 which is a lead core 5.56x45 caliber round that was being issued with M16's back in Vietnam. The main issues 5.56 was having at the time was bullet deflection and problems with penetrating/destroying light and medium cover. Things like wood, glass, vehicle door panels and dense jungle brush that they were fighting in. Bullet deflection is what happens when a bullets path is altered due to passing thru an object like cover or concealment and things forementioned above. This led to problems with accuracy and stopping power as the round would lose a lot of its lethality after passing through these common battlefield objects. keep in mind 5.56 is a very velocity dependent round and essentially must hit its target traveling at or above 2500 fps to consistently yawl and tumble inside of the target in order to incapacitate them in as little hits as possible regardless of where struck. If the round dips below this velocity a large amount of its lethal potential is lost and it has been reported (usually by people utilizing short barrel configurations with barrel length of 10.5 inches or less) of 5.56 having a serious lack of stopping power. This is because of two things, its either the ammo your using, or its the velocity. M855 wasn't meant to necessarily penetrate anything more than a flak jacket in its creation. It uses a MILD steel core tip which simply aids the round in passing through objects better. It is to add mass. And to serve better at cover penetration/destruction. However. One flaw with this ammo is it does this job a little too well. The extra penetrating capabilities work against you when shooting through soft targets and makes the yawling effect less consistent. Obviously many variables go into this. distance. Targets weight and thickness. etc. But the main issue with M855 is against soft targets it tends to blow clean thru stuff more often because of that penetrator tip. Which means your not delivering max damage potential with it, which when you combo m855 with a 10.5 inch AR-15 or shorter. Your basically taking all the stopping power out of the caliber. Dont get me wrong, nobody wants to be shot by that still, and its still scary and a good deterrent but at the same time, if you put that up against a 10 inch barreled AK in 7.62x39 and you both take a bullet at the same time, the dude who took the 7.62x39 is probably gonna die before the 5.56 kills the other guy.

[@Hitichi100]

Good info but I ain’t going to lie the first video had me ready to panic but 5.45. It was stressed in first video that there was a lot of difference in the two rounds now splitting hairs. I’m not going to bash the videos to hard though because it’s still great info.

[@Hitichi100]

O yea just wanted to mention the ar15. Com guy is clearly a ar15 5.56 knob dobber.

[@tdkyt46]

"my 556 steel core ammo is way better than 545 fmj for armour penetration so 556 is the better ammo"

[@shutnik1989]

Hi,why not take the normal 5.45 steel core ammo? 7н22 7н24 7н39. From Russia with love.

[@luasmartinez1262]

I watched the whole video that you used the still photo. The 5.56x45 started tumbling earlier distance wise. This was evident during all the angles that were shown in the full video. You complain about what 5.56x45 fanboys do and you do the EXACT same thing for the 5.45x39. Hey it comes all down to personal choice. Both will do the job and damaging the human body. As a combat medic from Iraq who has worked on "enemy combatants" wounded by the 5.56x45, I don't readily recall the rounds over stabilizing in soft tissue, just saying. Using the word/phrase "toxic" leads me to believe that you are of the belief that FACTS do not matter as much as YOUR OPINION. ANYONE trying to make one round, be it 7.56x51, 7.62x39, 5.56x45, or 5.45x39, FAR MORE DESTRUCTIVE than the other is a FOOL. ALL THE ROUNDS I MENTIONED WILL F*CK UP THE HUMAN BODY VERY WELL as I have seen, experienced.

[@Dcm193]

In fmj Form 5.56 does the best out of all listed

[@Dcm193]

5.56 wins any day. The famed 7n6 preforms like m855 which is the most hated loading for 5.56

[@derekmclv]

You're a much better speaker 5 years later. That said, and regarding both short barrel and standard, 7N6 is the king. The Word you were looking for 5 years ago may have been marginal.

[@Dcm193]

M262 mod1 is a thing

[@derekmclv]

@@Dcm193 I have no idea what you are talking about in relation to what I said.

[@Dcm193]

@@derekmclv mk262 out of a 10.3 inch gun will produce better permanent cavities than 7n6 will out of a 16 inch gun

[@Dcm193]

I got a notification that you replied but I can’t see it

[@derekmclv]

@user-fl3wf4td5s Perhaps, but I still have no idea sbout what your statement was supposed to mean. Regarding the ammo, I'm pretty sure both rounds will kill you, regardless.

[@geemonkey72]

SPLIT hairs. Not scratch. :)

[@lewistucker2624]

Just do as I do Dip them in a potion.

[@jersonmillard7047]

more gun powder more power

[@jbk19xx57]

They are both effective if you ask me.................. They are both designed to kill in a clean manner compared to 7.62 rounds that will turn you into mash.