5 Fantasy Tropes (to Avoid or Embrace!)

[@bornilmurchhona]

I’m actually writing a book where the mentor is the protagonist and a paragon-ish mentee is the 2nd protagonist and it’s so much fun working with that dynamic and the way it works with the arc of the story. Specially because the book I’m writing magic isn’t a thing. My favourite tropes in fantasy would definitely be the mentor trope, and the severe consequences for magic. Both are such great ways to develop and expand characters and my writer brain likes things that it can make complex stuff out of.

[@TomorrowWeLive]

quit stealing my ideas lol

[@PhoenixCrown]

Sounds like an awesome dynamic. Good writing!

[@LaurenInesRuiz]

I appreciated the genuineness here: I'm not a pro here, so I asked someone who is...my brother. :D

[@jakebishop7822]

As the brother, I also appreciate it.

[@coryisrael2406]

I know I am quite off topic but does anybody know a good site to stream newly released series online ?

[@coreycurtis290]

@Cory Israel i use FlixZone. You can find it on google =)

[@Skinniest_Kween]

"Hey, everyone. I'm Shaelin here with Reedsy." is my one of my favourite things to hear in the week.

[@amandarandomtube4793]

My favorite fantasy trope is hidden worlds, specifically multiple hidden worlds. I feel like those stories feel real even as a grown up. I've always thought that's where our creativity comes from, other worlds behind hidden doors that tell us stories through our subconscious....didn't expect to go that deep in a KZbin comment 🤦‍♀️

[@Hermit_mouse]

I love non-magical animal companions, towns or places that don't exist in the real world, and magic that is so subtle it might actually exist.

[@ooi97]

Would you recommend some books with such subtle magic?

[@Hermit_mouse]

@@ooi97 Little, Big by John Crowley

[@writingwofl5836]

You mean paranormal gifts. it exists, i know people with those and I use it in my books. With a twist ofcourse.

[@Nooneeeeeeeeeeee]

You're videos are always helpful, Shaelin. I can see improvement in my writing because of you. Thanks. My "mentor" is actually a kid. A few years younger than my protaganist. 😊

[@writingwofl5836]

wut. akid. Thats pretty interistin.

[@reena9027]

Great to see you are doing more of these, Keep making more will wait!!!

[@arjunpaudel709]

I m from nepal ..... I love writing in nepali language . And for that , i always visit your youtube channel . You never know who , where is having a greater impact from . Love you so much .please heart this comment shailyn 🙂🙂

[@Panteni87]

My favorite tropes: the fellowship goes on a journey and the "endless pursuit" Least favorite tropes: the hero/good guys/protagonist wins in the end and the self-sacrifice of character. Both the most and least favorites can vary from book to book. Some of my favorite scenes are when the hero wins in the end or the self sacrifice of a major character, but usually they are badly written. And I put away some books because I didn't like their fellowship or when I don't feel suspense in a pursuit.

[@Philospectrum]

I don't know if and how much it is useful to note that, but the "reverse chosen one" trope is quite often used in "fantasy/fantastical" genre of manga, even if not so much in fantasy novels. In fact it's frequently used to re-reverse the trope and make the protagonist not a chosen one but what I call the "chosen outsider", not considered to be of any kind of importance or legitimacy, sometimes even by himself, everyone completely unaware of a detail of his story/characterization that will make him, when revealed or noticed (even to his surprise) ... don't know if it's the clearest manner of telling it, but it'll make him "destined to" rather than "chosen to". Also, love what you do and talk about :) really enriching !

[@Beastlango]

I mean if you think about all characters that a book fallows are chosen ones......chosen for whatever role the author is for them.

[@lanalytch]

The Reverse Chosen One story is done really well in Brandon Sanderson's novel The Rithmatist. Highly recommended!

[@sweetdreamer3352]

I like your suggestion of 'magic has a hefty price' . Please explain further on this. It will mean a lot to us ❤

[@mari-hf9xp]

One good example would be magic in the Dragon Age series. Regular magic always comes with the risk of the caster being possessed by demons. Mages also have the option of performing "blood magic", where blood is the resource used to cast spells, which can lead to sacrifices or grievous self-harm. Blood magic also requires the mage to make a pact with a demon, which is a whole other level of risk for demonic possession. So no matter how magic is done in the series, there's always the chance that the caster or the people around them could die or be seriously hurt, either from blood magic or from the mage being possessed by a demon and transforming into a creature called an Abomination. An example of something where magic has no real price would be Harry Potter. Sure, spells can go wrong, but generally you can just fling 'em about without much risk.

[@Kesedrith]

C.S. Friedman's Magister Trilogy also has an interesting magic system of this type. Basically, magic requires the expenditure of life force. For every spell you're literally choosing whether or not something is worth dying a little for. Great series from a great author. Check out her Coldfire Trilogy and her SF book "In Conquest Born" as well.

[@vincentstark4496]

I'm thinking of a twist on the whole chosen one thing. basically, for every generation, there are 6 people known as The Icons. 2 of strength, 2 of intelligence, and 2 of emotion. Each icon directly opposes their counterpart, one being in some way "good" and the other "bad". The Icons of strength obviously have physical superiority, one being rageful and frenzied, the other incredibly calm and organized. The Icons of intelligence are incredible learners and have exalent memorys, the line between good and bad being very blurred. The Icons of emotion have the ability to use "magic" corresponding to their respective emotions, hate or compassion. Criticism welcome, need opinions so I can refine the concept

[@aaryasharma9781]

Excellent idea😃👍 Perhaps out of the strength icons, the bad one could be physically strong, and the good one emotionally, so that it's like no one can "break" the good one....or vice-versa, where the bad one is mentally very strong, and no one could ever get secrets out of them, and so they'd never be a traitor to whoever they stand with?🤔

[@aaryasharma9781]

Oh and maybe the "good" icons of one generation end up being the parents of the "bad" icons of the next generation or vice-versa? This could cause interesting conflict, where the parents try to convert the offspring to the other side, and the kids are like, "we cant help it, it's in our genes to be bad (or good?)" or something like that?

[@vincentstark4496]

@@aaryasharma9781 excellent addition you've made, my friend. Though in my head it looked something more like a barbarian and monk from dnd. One draws his strength from his anger and acts eroticly while one draws power from calm and quickly plans every move he makes. Somewhat like firebenders, azula draws fire from her anger, zuko from his breath Also, is imagined it being random so if you wanted to find the icons to assist in a conflict, you must seek them out, if it is linear they would likely become socially powerful and corrupted. But I like your additions to the idea, don't be discouraged, I can just be a little stubborn

[@aaryasharma9781]

@@vincentstark4496 haha sounds awesome! I'd love to read such a story, it'd be pretty unique and fresh👍😄😄

[@vincentstark4496]

@@aaryasharma9781 thanks!

[@jakebishop7822]

fantastic choices

[@arulsimions8705]

So sweet, concept is fantastic. Speak about love and expression in poetry

[@Cat-pg1ws]

I think one of my favourite tropes for fantasy specifically is the giant library trope

[@yvesgomes]

"The Way of Kings" has a really cool one.

[@joshua376]

I loved the chosen one trope in “I am Number Four”. One of the 9 children is said to be the strongest elder reborn but you don’t find out until much later. And they’re still not the strongest because they are still a kid. Although they have the capacity to learn every power, they have only had the chance to learn a few. So they’re not overpowered.

[@DM_Curtis]

The Reverse Chosen One is the Fish Out of Water. The point is that the Fish brings something unique, like Bilbo who uses his wits to solve problems.

[@PhoenixCrown]

I absolutely love the idea of the reverse chosen one the way you described it. Could be that the MC is beaten down, disrespected, thought of as a runt etc... but then how does he react when maybe... just maybe... he gets magic?

[@milestrombley1466]

I like heroes who already have experience and they don't care what consequences they do.

[@BlazerK1914]

Could you give me an example of one or two?

[@milestrombley1466]

Conan the Barbarian and Harry Dresden.

[@1sloo]

I have many favorite books in the fantasy genre. The fablehaven/dragonwatch books by Brandon Mull, which would fall under the hidden worlds/creatures trope. By Diana Wynne Jones, I love “A tale of time city”, Dogsbody, the Howl’s Moving Castle trilogy and the Chrestomanci books. Parallel worlds, time traveling were part of her themes. Her storytelling was special, unusual in a good way, and I also find it easy to fall in love with her characters. The graveyard book by Neil Gaiman is also really good. Mmm… not sure which trope to put it on though. Ghosts, but a little bit of Chosen one too maybe.

[@funforu8856]

I’m working on a trilogy where in the first book the main protagonist is an elf who is set on an adventure with a friend and a mentor. Very basic, but the catch is that by the end the characters meet a stranger all the way across the province, he is dragged along to a place where he is visibly discomforted with where he learns that he has potential to learn magi, which is magic but in my world it can only be used by a set of individuals, the Paire which are an order of wizards there’s more to their backstory but basically this stranger is the hero, because all the other Paire failed, either they died trying or like the mentor; Abandoned the mission first. So now in the second book the protagonist of the first is the helper to the stranger. Idk if it’s good but I thought it was unique

[@smsimms7593]

The Darksword trilogy by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman features a main character who is the only one without magic in a world where everyone has magic abilities. It's one of the best fantasy series I've ever read.

[@doc837]

I like the idea of a talisman that everyone believes will help the chosen one save the world but actually weakens her when she most needs power, forcing her to draw on nonmagical skills she'd underdeveloped or didn't know she had.

[@gamewriteeye769]

One of the subversions in my current WIP is the wise old mentor acting as a villain character/unreliable. Ultimately, he's a morally complex character. One trope that dominates the largest part of the story I'm writing is the magic system has a hefty price; it's very complex and interesting, which leads to what I'd consider some of the darkest elements (or crude) in fiction. To give an example, I try to capture the raw emotion of the magic brutally causing a transformation in one of the characters and ultimately it leads to a descent into madness if they don't "eat" a certain amount-what that pertains too is what makes it dark and turns them into a feral freak of nature. The magic system also affects the worldbuilding-because it dominates each and every soul's life that has it.

[@Kittsuera]

isekai (transported to another world) Over powered characters are fun to watch, but what makes them work is so much the powers but how they use them and watching/ reading the reactions to said powers. some times characters get super powerful but need to keep it a secret. that moment when other characters find out about said powers. the drama and "great responsibility" that comes with having that power. being overpowered can also be a hinderance in society. breaking things without meaning to can really put a dent on ones wallet. perhaps the powers are not inline with the characters goals and thus not relevant to the primary plot, maybe even an obstacle to over come depending on the power goal combo.

[@Glenn1440-p1p]

I’m a sucker for dark lords. There I said it! Here’s why, it’s because they ARENT your typical bad guys with complicated visions and motivations. Sometimes they don’t need much of a personality in the human sense of the word and that’s the beauty of them! They just want to watch the world burn. They embody or represent the Adversary in every sense of the word. That’s not to say that they aren’t overdone or that some people are tired of them. I don’t think they’d even qualify as a trope if they weren’t even slightly overdone. That’s also their biggest advantage in my opinion. The character is transparent enough and hard to over-complicate so that you’d be able to write a more complex story without damaging it because the villain is more straightforward themselves. That goes for chosen ones too, I guess. (What’s a dark lord without their chosen one?) But Dark lords are always my favorite. What I would like to see is more satire introduced into the trope. Dark lords having fun/ being humorous (not goofy) ARE fun to read or watch. Like Megamind, or Rumplestiltskin from Once Upon a Time. Dark Lords with quirks are the BEST!

[@BeastOrGod]

Evil Overlords works if the Evil Overlord is not a human being. Maybe like a Lich, Demon, Ghost or some Horror that the hero has to overcome. It's really good if you don't want to write an entire background story and motivation for the villain, you just want your hero to overcome it.

[@alexandreventurellicavalhe8717]

Best fantasy trope: "the group goes on a journey" Worst fantasy trope: good versus evil

[@Panteni87]

Its probably the oldest and most overdone trope... Good vs evil.

[@BlazerK1914]

I like the "Good versus Evil" trope, and I don't care if it's overdone.

[@alexandreventurellicavalhe8717]

@@BlazerK1914 Nice! That's a great thing. Hope all tropes have readers to welcome them. :)

[@josephedmondson1969]

The chosen one trope is a sticking point for me. Personally I like characters that have agency, and are smart enough to make their own decisions.

[@BlazerK1914]

My least favorite Fantasy Tropes were Prophesies and Chosen One. If I were to write a book, I would have more than one Protagonist who are able to fight against a few Antagonists.

[@Faerieshimmer]

I like the magic trope when a character finds out they are something magical and/or they don’t know they have magical powers, and the wise mentor trope. I know it’s overdone but I still love the under dog/ outcast trope. Do you think it’s overdone? Let me know what you think Shaelin! :) I don’t like the No one thinks I am pretty but everyone notices me trope, I am so unique from everyone trope. Or stereotype flat characters popular cheerleader, jerk football player and geek guy they are only well done if they are complex. I hate bully romances and I think that might be a trope? I don’t mean a character teasing a character but not someone who is super hateful depends on how it is done. I used to like instalove but it gets boring so not anymore.

[@cj-bi7hz]

*first hated trope is literally what my story is focused on* 👁👄👁💃💃💃💃

[@basthejokester]

What does reedsy mean actually? Also, is it related to your bird logo?

[@pensive8552]

I think the 'old wise mentor' needs to have an "old soul" and "appear to be wise." Other than that I agree, they can be young and separately not actually wise.

[@ruriva4931]

The only evil overlord I will accept is Firelord Ozai

[@reubenshuppHorrorAuthor]

Damn Straight!

[@korhad]

Yes but he wasn't evil for the sake of being evil. He honestly believed that the fire nation can turn the world into a better place if everyone was under the rule of the "The Phoenix King". That was Sozin's main conflict with Avatar Roku as well.

[@stevesommin9072]

YAGBAW - It's all about the pace.

[@victorthurse6027]

Any author who is considering Severe Consequences for Magic as part of their worldbuilding would benefit a great deal from researching Mage The Ascension. "But, I'm not interested in playing tabletop RPGs.". No problem. There is plenty of KZbin content about the philosophical system that underlies the game. It has been around since 1993. A good starting point is Mage The Podcast, episode "What is Mage: The Ascension?" 19 Mar 2019. It is an interview with one of the main authors of the original game. If you are interested in its evolution, how it has been updated to address issues of representation and inclusion, there's Onyx Path Publishing. episode "Storytellers with Coffee: Technocracy Reloaded", 19 Jul 2020. I am writing a contemporary short story that has no magic whatsoever and no mages. One of the two characters is drawn from writing I did for a Mage chronicle. This is just one example of how Mage changed how I write.

[@patrickdemets6018]

"Everyone has magic except the main character"? That would be The Darksword Trilogy by Weis & Hickman. 30+ years old, but still one of my favourite. Are there any others similar out there? Let me know, I'd love to read them.

[@GoodNeutralEvilChaos]

You say I should avoid prophecy and chosen one, I disagree. I made a chosen one character who failed the prophecy and ran to save her own life. Everything can be done right.

[@dronesaur4328]

I think the dark lord who's evil for the sake of evil is probably the most tired. I'm working on a science-fantasy story, and I'm trying to make it clear to the reader that the villains truly believe they're doing the right thing.

[@sirornstein]

Hahaha! I have 1 up on your brother! I read 81 books a year! All fantasy, all Lord of the Rings. 27 times. Every year.

[@joshua376]

I HATE the mentor trope. Every one I have seen ends up dying once their job is done. I’d hope if I do see more, that the mentors have real flaws instead of coming across as all knowing. Also they don’t need to be an old man.

[@jermainerucker2027]

Reverse chosen one is big in anime Which is honestly a newer thing Except for Naruto

[@naotatempest7552]

I'm currently trying to write a book where the protagonist is the first born son of a shogun and the reincarnation of a magician. in his previous lives, he was one of the most powerful magicians. but that was thousands of years ago. now in a time when magic has almost died out, he was reborn. But he misses the memories of his earlier life, and as he begins to learn magic, fragments of memories emerge. the reason why magic is running out and what that has to do with him. well so much for the basic idea. I was heavily influenced by A song of ice and fire and and anime like The Genius Prince’s Guide to Raising a Nation Out of Debt , How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom but also That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime. accordingly, the main focus would be politics, and not adventurer. adventurers would be important to a certain degree, Because if the subject of magic is important to the story, the protagonist must travel to find out why the world turned out this way, and why he, a hero from another time, was reincarnated. to fix something that may have been his fault in his past live. and here I encounter the biggest problem, I have enough story for a whole saga only the beginning is lengthy. 😵😵‍💫

[@Ignasimp]

I hate stories that focus on non-magicians in a world where everyone has magic. And I hate it because I hate stories that focus on the least interesting character out there. Why would a story be tokd in the first place if there wheren't something special about it, why would we follow a character that has nothing special about him. Ans sure, you can tell a great story subverting the chosen one trope, but this is easier said than done. It's hard to make a character that can compete with magic with intelligence and habilities alone without that character feeling to good to be true. I find having more than one main character when one of them is not the all powerful one works much better.

[@korhad]

Not a book but Sokka from The Last Airbender is the only person in the main group of heroes who has no ability to bend the elements. However, this gives him a lot of space to focus on many other things, like learning how to fight with a weapon, learning commanding and tactical skills, etc.And yes sure, bending the elements is fantastic and everyone wants to be able to do that, without Sokka, the quest of the protagonists wouldn't have succeeded.

[@mari-hf9xp]

One of my least favourite fantasy tropes is actually use of insanity as a plot device or punishment (e.g. Wheel of Time, or World of Warcraft). Usually "insanity" is shown via the character turning on their friends or going on a murderous rampage, which I think anyone who knows anything about mental illness or psychosis specifically would agree is kind of tasteless and harmful. I think it could be handled well by the right person, but I haven't seen it happen yet.

[@alexandreventurellicavalhe8717]

(Sound of glass shattering) damm! I've never noticed it! Insanity is such an easy plot device. Good catch.

[@tasosalexiadis7748]

I found the way it was handled in the 12th Wheel of Time book excellent, one of the strongest moments for me in all of literature, when the main character finally pays the price for using magic in all the previous eleven books.

[@mari-hf9xp]

@@tasosalexiadis7748 I haven't gotten that far in WoT, but the 12th book was when Brandon Sanderson took over, right? Maybe he was able to handle magical insanity a little better than Jordan could.

[@tasosalexiadis7748]

@@mari-hf9xp Yes that was the first WOT book that Sanderson wrote, but in hindsight it seems that scene was foreshadowed by the Jordan books, so it cannot be a Sanderson idea. Brandon delivered it perfectly though.

[@laithao2092]

Morally, complex villain. Castlevania's Dracula

[@sinistrality7883]

Why am I even here? I wanna start writing but i'm just lazy.

[@openmusic3904]

There is nothing wrong with a pure evil character, in my opinion. It's about how the character is executed and how the pure evil is justified, be it through monologue, dialogue, or backstory. Moral ambiguity and depth aren't the same thing. You can have a morally ambiguous bad guy, but one without depth, and vice versa... I think what readers really want, for the most part, is depth and complexity, and for some reason that has become synonymous with moral ambiguity. Evil exists, and pure evil people exist. We even have a name for it: psychopathy. Exemplified by serial killers who clinically posses the 'dark triad' of character traits. I think to suggest otherwise, that pure evil characters are somehow, 'less real', is more of a fad, a trend, oppose to reflective of reality.

[@evergreenartcorner4319]

"The orphaned protagonist" I literally don't like this one. The protagonist' s parents are either killed in their childhood or Somehwere lost and they have to struggle throughout the novel, making decisions on thier own. Extra points if he/she is the chosen one!

[@NadwornyBlazen]

I disagree with most of advises about fantasy writing on youtube, even including those given by Sanderson and your videos. All magic and every trope needs to represent something from the real world ang give some mystery around it, meanwhile most advices and books are subverting this truth. No wonder why fantasy genre is not respected among academic circles. Evil dark lord should represent what is evil in itself for the author. Prophecies should be more something like consequence of the world population actions. The chosen one should be the one who voluntary refuses to accept those ways. The wise mentor should be a father figure, having what all what main character needs to have, but not having the one trait, that the main character has. If there are consequences of magick, they should reflect consequences of achievieng something big in the real world, but mythologised. I hope someone will read this comment.

[@tasosalexiadis7748]

If your goal is literary fantasy, these are good ideas. If your goal is a good story these may be limitations.

[@rev6215]

First