5 React Alternatives You Should Know

[@solid_js]

Great video Jack! Thanks for representing Solid well! We hope the opportunities to work in the framework will grow in the near future. =)

[@jherr]

Ground floor opportunities!

[@Premkumar-eq1zv]

I love solidJs 🤗

[@spicynoodle7419]

I haven't *really* used Solid yet but it seems to fix all of the issues I have with React. Also it's BLAZINGLY FAST (or as fast as JokeScript can get). I'm definitely making my next personal project in Solid

[@justinnl4332]

Waiting for solid start 1.0 to be out 🙇🏻‍♂️!

[@AlphaWatt]

Really appreciate all your insight Jack!

[@TomDoesTech]

Your thumbnail game leveled up with this one

[@jherr]

We wanted to do a face replacement with the guy but ran out of time. 😂

[@TomDoesTech]

@@jherr would have been brilliant 😂

[@mayinbun]

I have been in the Angular side for like 4 years, and recently joined a company that works with React. I can totally agree that things can get out of hand in React when you have multiple teams that own each of their micro-frontends. That's why we came up with so called architectural decision records (ADR's), describing how we do things. Whilst with Angular this kind of comes with the framework itself :)

[@erenjeager1756]

Man SolidJS just needs a SSR framework on top of it and I'm sold

[@orenelbaum1487]

We have one but it's in alpha. You can also use it with existing tools like Astro and vite plugin ssr

[@Dunktastic17]

Svelte is so good, it's also my main alternative. I hope to see more companies and products adopt Svelte and for more job opportunities to appear. Seems like React still dominates the job market.

[@spicynoodle7419]

Same, I wish my job would start adopting Solid but I don't see us moving away from React and Vue any time soon. We mostly do React.

[@everythingisfine9988]

Sveltekit has been fun. Works amazingly well with the html api

[@orenelbaum1487]

Awesome video! I wanna make a few corrections / additions: - Flutter really seems like it's not suitable at all for professional web development. Flutter websites are nutritiously inaccessible and break the web in weird ways. Even the flutter website itself is glitchy. - One of Solid's main pros, arguably the biggest one, is DX which is only on the surface similar to React. The mental model is more similar to Vue / Svelte. - Vue doesn't really have React perf characteristic, in the popular framework benchmark Vue is currently doing a little bit better than Svelte. So it's more like Solid >> (Vue, Svelte) >>>> React. Vue is also going to add a no V-DOM mode which will probably be even faster. - Vue is actually fine grained reactive and works very similarly to Solid, as well as similar DX in many ways, especially with the setup script. This is why they can work on no V-DOM mode. - Svelte is not truly fine grained reactive, it does update the DOM directly without a V-DOM but it actually reruns whole component life cycles, I think kinda like React classes. But it feels like fine grained reactivity except it has some DX differences from Solid / Vue mostly due to it's compile time based VS Solid's and Vue' runtime based approach.

[@atanasantiev7237]

Can you give a link for the no V-DOM mode. Like a news or road map. Its the first time i am hearing this.

[@orenelbaum1487]

@@atanasantiev7237 sorry can't share links on KZbin comments but I think Evan said it on some podcast recently.

[@PeerReynders]

@@atanasantiev7237 Look for the video "State of Vue" which streamed on 2022-03.24 and go to 1 hour 4 minutes and 41 seconds

[@atanasantiev7237]

@@PeerReynders Cool thanks. That is really interesting

[@PeerReynders]

@@atanasantiev7237 Apparently now it's called Vue "Vapor" (since VueJS Amsterdam 2022)

[@universecode1101]

Cool thumbnail 😜I'm a Js - React developer but I always listen to what you say Jack, you are one of the best, for me SolidJS is amazing ... Thanks for the tips 😊

[@HardGas911]

Your endorsement of Flutter is making me take note. Thanks for sharing.

[@PhilipAlexanderHassialis]

"And my number 4 is Angular" *Ben Awad enters the chat*

[@alangomes3240]

I did a small project using Svelte, and the result was better than I expected. I hope Svelte continues growing

[@mortezatourani7772]

Flutter (and Dart): I remember spending some time on it almost 4 years ago when I started with React. I was supposed to check RN, but I spent quality time on Flutter and when looking back, do not regret my decision :p. Angular: I spent almost 2 years off and on with different versions in different situations. AngularJS with OnsenUI for mobile app, Angular 2 with Ionic, and finally web development with Angular 5.5. even after 4 years when I see some videos or read an article about Angular or RxJS, it's like the mother ship calling me back home :) SolidJS: Your video on SolidJS blew my mind and I definitely going to use it in a personal project. Vue: I tried v2 a while ago but couldn't understand it so it's a no go for me :) Svelte: Looks promising. I need to spend more time on it Like all the time enjoyed the content and background. Thank you very much.

[@HotRatsAndTheStooges]

Glad to see Svelte and Solid getting recognition. Would LOVE to use either of those in a professional environment but React is still king unfortunately.

[@siematos1099]

Reading up on Solid JS got me here. I personally like the µhtml/LitHTML style of developing with tagged template literals. And it goes really well with a solid/s.js style reactive updating pattern. Thank you for your opinion, Flutter was definitely way lower on my personal list, so I guess, it's worth looking into it as well.

[@reybontje2375]

I'm doing Flutter and React just to pad my resume. I did React a few years ago, but I lost all that I learned after not using it for a while. I learned Angular in my Frameworks course and I was a little confused just coming into React, mostly about state management. Which, your videos on state management, and React in general, have been a huge help.

[@RadicalCoder]

Svelte is wonderful, I've been singing its praise for years! So happy to see it thriving

[@MrChernicharo]

Great video, Jack! Please, we want more videos about solidjs! 🥳🥰😀

[@ScriptRaccoon]

Svelte is also my favorite, by far! It's super easy to write and to learn, there is no boilerplate, and it's very fast as well. You mentioned that the ecosystem is good, but what should be added here is that Svelte is so close to Vanilla JS that you can simply use THE WHOLE JAVASCRIPT ecosystem. No need for react-blabla, just use blabla on npm which has been there already the whole time. And of course the Web APIs which are built into the browser. But jobwise, maybe I am wrong, but there aren't so many jobs in Svelte yet, right? And even if Svelte is mentioned in a job ad, it seems to be only the secondary language or even less.

[@hyprsonic_dev]

@@internet4543 I absolutely can't wait to see it 😁

[@Fitzpa14]

Hey Jack, Great videos! I've actually been trying to pick up Flutter! It is pretty cool. Maybe you could do a video with this? Also, would you mind telling me what you use for your audio? Like what microphone and audio interface you use as well as maybe what kind of processing you do to the audio?

[@CodingAbroad]

Started on Angular, then Vue and only now just starting React 😂 but my first love is still Angular. Loads of jobs for it here in the uk and as you say I can pick up anyone else’s code and understand it

[@amanueltigistu8268]

I am looking at Solid JS (Solid Start) & Netlify Edge Functions. Please Jack, just cover these two in a one video.

[@drewbird87]

As always, thank you for your content! I liked this one and hearing your educated opinions.

[@tbcfrankee]

Agree a lot with this list. From what I can tell people just like Svelte a lot. In terms of job market, if you know both React and Angular you're pretty set for like 90% of jobs. For personal projects I'd try to learn Svelte/WASM.

[@kettenbach]

100% accurate regarding Flutter, some things from React, and Dart is an easy transition if you know typescript, also everything about Angular is true. I think it made React super easy, especially if you work on a typescript react app. I love and appreciate all of these technologies as they've all provided great income for me and my family. They were all completely free and built with passion and love to make my experience better. ❤️

[@jherr]

Completely agree. We are luck to have so many awesome free choices!

[@cobyjoseph4850]

Great video! Would love some videos on svelte and sveltekit.

[@jherr]

I'll definitely do that at some point. But I might do Solid-start first.

[@HabtamuDesalegn]

Alternative is great just for one thing to consider based on today's video is to convert project written from angular to React.

[@AhmedOsama5]

awesome like always jack, I would enjoy working with someone like you

[@jherr]

Thank you for being a one year subscriber!

[@0791679]

Svelte ❤❤❤

[@AveN7ers]

I'm going with Solidjs because of its similarity to React. I've heard good things about Svelte but in my country React dominates followed by Angular .

[@thecodecatalyst]

I've started on Flutter last weekend and gotita Say it great! They really though of things in both product and devs side

[@androidsamsung3207]

Great video, i have worked with angular and react. So i can relate each of your words. While writing with react it is too hard to understand the code and patterns used by other teams but angular asks you to write the code in an opinionated manner. For flutter, learning Dart was a challenging and time taking task, so I somehow could not make it. Next i would love to start with *svelte*.

[@Shortly8908]

Really enjoy your videos. Really thank you!

[@Vedmalex]

I agree with most of things you’ve mentioned!

[@gideonidoko]

Before watching this, I predicted Vue, Svelte, Angular, SolidJS and Lit. Never thought flutter would make the list.

[@jherr]

A couple of months ago I wouldn't have either, but... it's really cool.

[@joelhager3106]

@@jherr I'm cautiously optimistic. I prefer RN. But learning something new is the name of the game. I'm looking at Go for backend stuff. Then if I don't hate myself enough yet, I'll look into Rust. 🤣

[@tr.j4079]

Liked for the Thumbnail.

[@jungervin8765]

My favorite is lit-html, beside being faster and smaller lib, web components are great.

[@shubhamlatiyan7972]

I started from Angular, now working on React

[@RA-xx4mz]

I started with React Class components then React functional components. Started at a company that uses Vue a year ago. I prefer Vue to React. Code is better organized and Pinia/Vuex has waaaay less boilerplate than Redux.

[@jasonruff1270]

true but once you get the redux boilerplate code down state management is a breeze

[@ionitaa]

@@jasonruff1270 What type of state do you guys keep in redux? Is it everything or just data loaded from API? I've seen 12 react-redux projects and nobody knew how to deal with redux.

[@zashadow131990]

Really great content! Keep it coming!

[@louiejohnseno1810]

would love to see your dart/flutter videos soon? 😁

[@CodingAbroad]

Here in the uk I have rarely seen any javascript jobs outside the top 3. I’d say it’s React 60%, Angular 30% and Vue 10%

[@mortezatourani7772]

One thing I forgot to mention was about web components Lit components look promising :)

[@OzzyTheGiant]

For those of you considering Flutter: Please don't use it for websites or even some web applications. Flutter Web uses a rendering engine on top of HTML canvas, which means instead of your typical DOM nodes, you have to interact with a canvas the whole time, and it's just too heavy to use compared to a JS framework. Some use cases for it would be if you want to port a lightweight game from mobile to web or if you have custom widgets that you know you can't find on web libraries, like maybe a chart library (but there's so many of those out there). But for everything else (mobile, desktop), Flutter is fantastic and really get's the job done

[@ram-gb4xg]

Thank you Sir!

[@alexchud]

Great Video 😃

[@lunix3330]

I've been working with react for a while now. Not so long ago I've tried using Svelte as an alternative to a react project I've just started. From what I was able to glimpse, in my opinion the framework still isn't there yet when it comes to DX. Using TS and Sass with svelte doesn't work all that well. The framework only allows typescript in the `script` tags, therefore templates wouldn't recognize typescript type notations, I also tried JSDoc type notation inside templates it doesn't work either. I also had stylesheet imports which couldn't resolve in vs code, but compiled just fine. In a few releases, it might be worth looking into it again, giving some times for the plugin and language server to improve.

[@technikhil314]

Whats the name of nextjs like of solidjs?

[@jherr]

github.com/solidjs/solid-start

[@technikhil314]

@@jherr whoa it's literally solid start when you said solid start in video i thought you have some insider news. My bad.

[@thesuperyou2829]

agreed to all

[@rsrini7]

Thanks for the great companion. I am looking into web components using lithtml and use inside react . Is it worth to explore or any recommendations, please suggest

[@theyreMineralsMarie]

Flutter is so much simpler than React. I love their implementation of the Widget abstraction, and Dart just "makes sense".

[@nodemodules]

It kinda restrictive in my opinion. Unlike react js/native you can't style your app in different ways like Tailwind or custom CSS (which becomes necessary in many UIs). The third party library support is very basic at this time.Global state management is especially tricky. With React you get simpler solutions like Zustand or Jotai if you have a small to medium application and don't want to go through all the Redux hoops. With flutter one is stuck with either Redux or the Provider. Plus the UI only looks good on IOS and Android, and doesn't scale well nor look good on any larger screen devices.

[@jherr]

Actually you aren't stuck with Redux, there is a Provider, but that's basically just context renamed. There are a lot of state managers out there for Flutter. I somewhat agree on the UI angle. But if I'm a three person development shop then I'm probably ok ceding some fine grained UI control to get much faster cross platform development.

[@leofonseca8144]

@@jherr bloc or riverpod (deprecates provider) might be better state mgmt choices. I've implemented bloc and it's a proper state mgmt framework and easy to reason with. Flutter's sell revolves around mobile offerings not performant in web. Which still leaves backend server options available.. wish you would break out your lists by layer/channel, in particular server side, I.e. Spring, node, next, etc. Thanks and congrats on your channel 👏 noted, svelte worth considering..

[@RickyGarcia_Learning]

At some point do you think you should put more emphasis on more transient skills like DS & algos, web pack, system design, etc? I've used veu, angular, and react all in production and I feel like it's time to stop starting from scratch.

[@ComisarioLobo]

Great video, can you please create content related to blitzjs and redwoodjs?

[@jherr]

Definitely been eyeing those, but those take a little while to build quality content around since they are heavy topics.

[@ComisarioLobo]

Thanks for considering my proposal Jack, loving your videos about micro-frontends. Also would be great to see content related to AWS AppSync and Low-Code/No-Code

[@sourav_-_7038]

Rust Yew is also an alternative. maybe one day it will be in top 5 alternative for react.

[@cwinter90]

Vue 3 + feels kinda similar-ish to Svelte.

[@JeanDidier]

For those who love simplicity, AlpineJS is your best friend

[@OzzyTheGiant]

I think where Alpine really shines is when you need a jquery replacement that works using components instead of imperative-style coding.

[@sulemanmughal5397]

I am studying svelte 😃 more svelte content

[@saramshshrestha7641]

Great. Can you make videos on Dart and Flutter?

[@azbykov]

Hey!? What about emberJS?!!!

[@CodeCraftersLabs]

Great content, Jack, you rock! I personally believe that a dev shouldn't marry a single stack, but instead, get good in one but know some other tools to be ready for new changes and challenges.

[@jherr]

Exactly! Even if you don't use any of these full time you should try out different tech stacks with different implementation styles just to see how they work. For example, one of the fine grained update frameworks. Like Solid.

[@CodeCraftersLabs]

@Jack Herrington *Totally agree with you, pal!* By the way, I love your channel, buddy, thanks for sharing the knowledge with us. Greetings from the land of lakes and volcanoes: Nicaragua!

[@jherr]

@@CodeCraftersLabs I didn't know that about Nicaragua, now I want to go!

[@CodeCraftersLabs]

@@jherr That is right, pal. You are more than welcome here, bud, that would be awesome. You will love this country, its nature, its coffee, meals, you name it! It would be glad to meet with you! Ometepe Island, for example, has two big volcanoes in it, can you believe it? just to name of few of them... then you have volcan Mombacho,(natural reserve), volcan Masaya(doors to hell) full of lava, San Cristobal volcano, Momotombo and momotombito volcanoes, and others, come visit, you shall not regret the experience, and a good sip of organic coffee from Jinotega, a city near the mountains of the north of this country.

[@wajidareeb4312]

The meme for flutter was so perfect match for it, 🤣🤣

[@sauravprasaddhakal3420]

Awesome....you are great

[@mnezon1314]

Blazor and Lit are interesting. Blazor especially once MAUI comes out.

[@jherr]

I... don't understand the MAUI status thing at all. Wasn't that supposed to be out forever ago. I tried talking to the MSFT dev-rels when the channel was a lot smaller and I had done a video on Blazor and I kinda got the kiss-off. Maybe I can get some more traction now and get enough access to make a video.

[@geraldhinson]

Jack, are you still enjoying Flutter? More content on it coming?

[@jherr]

TBH, I kind of bounced off of Flutter. I need to take another look at it.

[@geraldhinson]

@@jherr Similar story here, but I recently looked again and really like what I see so far relative to react / react-native. It feels simpler and better put together on numerous levels. The design system my team is working with is derivative of material with a bit of apple influence here and there. With some thoughtful choices, building something that feels and looks good spanning ios/android/web looks very doable, which amounts to real $s if true. I love that most things just seem to work w/o a bunch of fiddling and also the nice test framework. One of the veterans that I work with (both of us ex-MSFT now developing using MacBooks - ha) commented, "React feels like something Facebook built for themselves then allowed the rest of us to use if we wanted. Flutter feels like a stack built by a real software vendor whose primary focus are the customers using it." He's not wrong. ;)

[@jherr]

@@geraldhinson Yeah, I agree. It does look really good. There is just only so much time in a day.

[@geraldhinson]

@@jherr Indeed. Just tossing out a vote for more content if you have time. Love your channel.

[@eango]

Nice video, convinced me to take a second look at flutter/dart and i need to get on learning svelte still :) Me personally been learning more things pertaining to serverless and SSR (fuanadb, aws lambda, next.js, etc). I guess what we are calling "JAMstack" is what I've been interested lately in.

[@oumardicko5593]

"whatever you guys want me to take a look at or recommend"😏 Can we do some SEO with SPA 🥺

[@mrwho2513]

I'm still on v17, I don't think I'm gonna update soon to v18 one other important aspect about choosing a framework, is the UI KIT. NONE has better option that react has with MUI. Again: NONE! MUI is a huge framework, the best you can have on the market.

[@flat-line]

react native is not for web by default. with some black magic , maybe. So is fluter for web out of the box and ios ?

[@jherr]

Yep. Out of the box you get web.

[@flat-line]

@@jherr then i just wish you to find a little bit time to introduce us this beauty

[@jherr]

@@flat-line Oh, I will. We're gonna have some fun with Flutter in the next few months.

[@flat-line]

that is great, sometimes i feel like this band aid for js and js frameworks needs to stop somewhere , i was looking for wasm for that matter, but it wasn’t in your list, i guess you dont see a future there

[@jherr]

@@flat-line I actually see a lot of potential in WASM, I just haven't seen a complete OSS solution there right now. Last time I looked Microsoft was the only group with a complete web development in WASM solution. Please let me know if there is an OSS alternative.

[@katlehokomeke]

Please checkout Stencil, which was built by the Ionic team.

[@gosnooky]

The thing that annoys me the most with Flutter (Dart) are three things: First, I don't like how doc blocks are done with triple slashes instead of the well known slash + asterisk. It just makes the code look cluttered (aesthetic thing only, but aesthetics matter). The second thing is the lack of reflection for JSON deserialization, forcing you to create a bunch of schemas via Maps to create concrete class instances from JSON. I realize this is done for performance and for tree-shaking, but come on, Google engineers are supposed to be the best, and they couldn't create some sort of registry for classes/symbols that are to be retained during the tree-shaking process and to auto-create serialization/deserialization logic at compile time in order to automatically convert JSON entities into their respective class instances while maintaining a modicum of performance. The last are Dart's C# style no-logic constructor bodies - very annoying. I did prefer Flutter overall to RN, because the RN ecosystem is so vast, messy and non-standardized, it feels sloppy at scale. I'd assume the Facebook mobile app's source code would be the thing of nightmares. Thankfully, my current job is back-end only, and I've never been happier.

[@woozy_deer]

I think a year from now a couple Rust-based alts might work their way on this list

[@heguer87]

Thanks a lot

[@abhim6380]

React is so messed up. I regret switching to react from Vue. What the fuck is up with useEffect and stale values and now with react 18, useEffect gets called twice and it shouldn't be used to make Api calls ? It's like no one really knows what to actually do. I can't find a source to understand how rendering actually works.

[@jherr]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/apOcfYaLj8-nsKc

[@RachidBoudjelida]

Flutter is actually great for apps, but not that good when it comes to SEO , then again react is not SEO friendly either but I would argue that react build a DOM with html components and all the bells and whistles that comes with it , on the other hand flutter paints the app on a canvas in the browser so screen readers or crawlers can't get anything. That been said I used flutter maybe 3 years ago and enjoyed it then, to build mobile app ,I am always looking for a project where I can use flutter again because i enjoyed it so much last time and now i am sure it matured even more

[@BenjiDalton]

I got burned with the vue 2 to 3 migration pretty bad, with the Vue team leaving Vue-Class-Component lib in limbo with no update for over a year, putting Vue-CLI into maintenance mode, breaking Vuex drastically enough to abandon it and moving to Pinia. It seems core team easily abandons stability/enterprise needs for the sake of the new and shiny despite breaking changes. React and Angular have a much more mature attitude towards enterprise and backwards compatibility.

[@nodemodules]

Jack, why are you betraying the brotherhood!

[@jherr]

The brotherhood is of the web my friend. :)

[@gideonidoko]

😂

[@katlehokomeke]

1. Stencil 2. Stencil 3. Stencil 4. Stencil 5. Stencil

[@varandpezeshkian6299]

and my no4... Angular. OK byeeeeee, almost closed the video at no.4 but because I love your content I didn't LOL

[@michaelmenard8614]

... not so "in the past". I work for a web company that still has a good portion angular 1 hosted on jsp pages....

[@MG-nn8dy]

Unity dev requesting Solidjs and Threejs =)

[@flat-line]

no jack no please not Angular , this is heresy. Solid js is the way this is the way

[@gessegoncalves6493]

I am a Vue Deveper

[@MohamedElmardi123]

I think Solid is a Solid option

[@jherr]

I see what you did there!

[@cas818028]

Remix should have made the cut. Taking Next.js head on and written by the guys that wrote react test library and react router.

[@jherr]

But Remix is currently, React. As is NextJS.

[@SithLordBishop]

Svelte 100%

[@SithLordBishop]

so easy so intuative so simple

[@SithLordBishop]

Iv been over react for a while especially react hooks

[@sourav_-_7038]

Do a flutter series then.

[@jherr]

I probably will. I need to do a few one off Flutter videos first to see if there is an audience.

[@sourav_-_7038]

@@jherr sure. one quick question, can module federation be included inside flutter or ionic?

[@jherr]

@@sourav_-_7038 Flutter no. Ionic ... maybe? If you can get Webpack in there for the bundler. That being said, I have zero experience with Ionic, so... yeah. I do have experience with Electron and we use Webpack 5 there. I could use Module Federation in that app if I wanted, but haven't yet.

[@sourav_-_7038]

@@jherr okay, nice. thanks

[@guygolan3685]

my tech lead argued with me that for a small project we shouldnt use react because its 'wasteful'... i was therefore forced to go with Webcomponents and it was a disaster.... hard to test, hard to code and maintain, hard to recruit for, miserable ecosystem and support by various modern tools.... but it was "cutting edge" at the time. i hate him for that nightmare. in my last month at said company, he then forced me to rewrite the app in vanilla js. was much better experience

[@tonytran07]

1. Flutter is good for mobile app, but not webapp. If make a website, you can't highlight with mouse to copy and paste text for instant. Actually, you can but very complicated. Only specific areas... which means you'd have to do it everywhere. IT also is bad for web crawlers to detect contents in your site, thus your page be on the bottom of search.... 2. Angularjs (but not angular) is shutdown by Google as of december 2021. No longer supported.

[@tonytran07]

@Muhammad Usman Javed apologies. I thought they were the same with angular being a shorter name for it.

[@ejirocontent]

Vue 2 to 3 migration has actually led to hiring more Vue devs 😅😅

[@tsenguun]

I'm really tired of people saying Angular is heavy weight, has high learning curve, boilerplate etc. Using just React as a library, yeah its light weight but web applications would not just use React. You have to have routing, state management, PWA, SEO etc to use it as a framework which would blow up the complexity of the project which Angular already have those stuff built in. For me, Angular made sense as a framework and had no trouble learning it.

[@damiantriebl1747]

flutter! in the future this will better in web

[@ashtonmiddlefield9819]

Yes, virtual dom waste a lot of time.

[@drsensor]

Flutter has horrible perf on web

[@jherr]

I'll have to look into that. I think bad web perf might be a decent tradeoff for developing a cross platform app at the seed or A round stage, or in the POC phase in more established companies.

[@TheGabrielMoon]

ew angular

[@sprintwithcarlos]

Flutter is a huge pile of crap, Google screw me once with Angular, I won't fall twice

[@simongomes5671]

None of them are React alternatives!

[@wagiewojak]

React sucks why should somebody use it at the first place lol

[@ahmedifhaam7266]

Embarrassingly I'm looking at .net 6 now...ehhe, I have been using react, but needed an enterprise framework for my job. I might try solid or svelte, not sure which to try fist.