$500 Gaming PC - AMD or Nvidia - Which is Best For Live Streaming?

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We always say to go with Nvidia if you plan on streaming, but what if AMD streaming is actually good now? Today we’re building a very budget build and testing to see if AMD is good in 2024 for live streaming to your favorite social media platforms.
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$500 Gaming PC for Live Streaming? AMD vs Nvidia
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[@ToastyBros]

jawa.link/TBJune24 - Build a Streaming PC using Jawa!

[@itscold.5229]

Bro please reply I’m really confused about should I get a rx6800 or a Rtx 3070 or 3070ti I’m getting good deals on the used market, my main purpose is “learning animation 2d, video editing and may be live streaming games in the future rx6800 16gb vram looks solid of future proofing unlike 3070’s just 8gb, i really don’t care about RT or dlls. I’m buy what you suggest.

[@Jewk_]

I have 500 dollars but idk how to buy pcs and i don’t know if my mom would like me buying one but i reallly need one because all my friends play on pc am the only one who plays on ps4

[@OxygenError]

Link for RTX 3050 PLS. Idk if I’m getting the right one

[@OxygenError]

Also, how many fans did you guys end up adding in this build? I’m doing same build but with RTX 3050 instead. Please respond!!

[@dillonhuitt2386]

I love how these guys always aim to the middle class that need to save money and not these extravagant $4000 builds that very few can afford. Keep it up!

[@gogaming5449]

to be fair , 4000 $ builds are not fun :D budget builds are much more fun to play with

[@barryallen5507]

Its fun enough all the same! Pretty scary to hold such expensive parts in your hands and install it, also scary to manually flash your mobo BIOS with nothing but hope and a single flashing LED to know if it succesfully updated or bricked.

[@barryallen5507]

This is an interesting perspective to me, I saw a gaming PC being less than 1000$ as impossible because I excluded used parts for my personal builds. Just stigma from using ebay and the like back in the day, before there was a money back garauntee. I can't reasonably afford to just eat the price of disfunctional equipment, so I've decided to try and update my old PC to use as a game server. I bought a 3070 OC on ebay for 230$, it arrives next week, I really hope it works!

[@tumultoustortellini]

@@barryallen5507 You do realize you can get a build w/ a 6600m, and 5500 for only like 700 right? If a pc w/ new parts costs over 1k on the low end, you're doing something extremely wrong, probably overpaying for an ssd, or fans, or buying corsair ram kits (the worst mistake)

[@glidestriker]

@@tumultoustortelliniwith 700$ you can get a Ryzen 5 5600 and an rx 6650xt

[@AntwnoPono]

I just got a pre-built pc a month ago with an rx 6600 and it plays whatever I want pretty good.Huge upgrade from intel uhd graphics from my laptop xD

[@YessirIsBack]

How did u manage with uhd bruh 😮😮😮😮

[@HajdiJsjsis]

Amd cards do be more "bang for the buck" as they say

[@FC_Mobile_Is_Fun]

I use the rtx 3060 wich to be honest is as good,so I actually Nvidia for this,as the power of AI really has caught my attention and no wonder they are the most valuable company

[@priincebrvce7213]

Not that there's anything wrong with rebuilt, but what deterred you from building your own PC?

[@user-ry2nm1yt8l]

Seeing ppl always fighting who is better is genually funny,like bruh just buy whatever u want and ur done this shouldnt be a topic to fight abt 😂😂

[@EffectualPoet]

Holy crap, the total lack of VRM heatsinks on that motherboard 01:30 😵‍💫

[@Dictatortot-n3d]

I stream with my all amd PC. $300 I have a R5 3600 5600xt and 16gb ddr4. I play older games so it works out great

[@nowaymaboi7686]

whast your twitch? i wanna watch

[@MrOhio..]

This channel has helped me big time looking for my first PC this year have an 800$ budget but Newegg has definitely have some good deals .

[@MrBeetsGaming]

Microcenter usually has better deals if you have one near you

[@NowThatsPCGaming]

Great video gents. I like it when y’all do something different. Keep the creativity up!

[@BriantDavis78]

i've been using amd for streaming or two machine setups. It works fine. I would love to see a battle of av1 streaming.

[@stratuvarious8547]

I'm surprised you didn't go a bit higher with the cpu, just to remove that from the equation and focus on the performance of the gpus for streaming. Also, this only really applied to KZbin right now, but the current gen cards support AV1, which is a better encoder all around. Still not sure why Twitch is dragging it's feet on implementing it.

[@Reckless150681]

Anybody looking into these sorts of builds, try to go Nvidia or RX 7000 series. If you can find a cheap way to get on AV1 you'll get a good benefit to your streaming. Nvidia has support with 3000 and 4000 series, AMD only has support with RX 7000.

[@formerlycringe]

fyi Nvidia does NOT support AV1 on the 30 series.

[@mikiehill67]

You should have added a Arc card in as well

[@jdspencer60]

hopefully they make another video for that, I am interested too - I heard the ARC cards have a pretty good encoder

[@Kingswtech]

Facts

[@genlongtsang1093]

What is Arc

[@moleedaboi]

True

[@moleedaboi]

​​@@genlongtsang1093 intel gpus

[@SocialSophia]

*I wonder which is more important 16gb RAM → 32gb RAM or the clock speeds of the RAM.*

[@rellikai945]

As someone that has streamed on both twitch and YT with AMD cards, I can confirm rdna3 is a much better route to go due to them having the avc encoder, rather than AMD's crappy h264 encoder or even HEVC. Also stream quality, particularly for AMD is way better on YT due to YT not having a bitrate cap like twitch does. AMD does way worse at lower bitrates comparatively than nvidia, so streaming on YT allows them to be able to just brute force better stream quality by being able to ramp up the bitrate to like 15mbps.

[@ultrabableves_twitch]

Im using an Ryzen 5 5600 and Rtx 3060 ti +32gb ram for streaming, its enought except for Tarkov😅

[@WarHeadinc1]

I was hoping you guys would make something like this. Thank you

[@MMillerPCs]

I’d be interested to see how it works with a 7000 series AMD Gpu since it’s suppose to have an even better encoder. I know that would probably jump the budgets up to the $550-$650 range. It would be cool to see

[@theguycanfly98]

I really think you should redo this test using KZbin instead of Twitch or Kick because it supports AV1 which is the whole reason the new-gen AMD cards are worth getting for streaming

[@Ivlodded]

Very clean build!

[@YounusRizwan0]

I'm usually a AMD fanboy but for this sub $200 GPU comparison, I think the Nvidia wins the title the best GPU for live streaming. What do you think about this one guys?

[@kar9k1ller]

i would love to see you guys do a video on upgrading a hp z220 workstation graphics and storage options plus some good ddr3 ram options would make a good video

[@jomamohammed-kf5pk]

I think rtx 4060 vs rx7600 would be a great comparison 👌🏽

[@SuperKCman_]

Any chance @ToastyBros can we get a dedicated stream PC build for us console streamers? Haven't had one in years and it would be awesome to have an updated build!

[@dragosthule]

DDR4 kits worth using are getting scarce. Would of liked to see this with ddr5. Putting a guide out with hard to get parts isnt so useful. I love ddr4 and think it has a place for years to come. They just aint making the sticks anymore and the good ones mostly gone.

[@ee_skillzz-o-nTikTok]

Can you guys build a game pc that costs about $700 with best pc parts in 2024.

[@wanderer3825]

Me watching w/o PC looking to build soon with this budget, hopefully more😆

[@ChinisTv]

Im looking for a pc for streaming and editing only I’ll always use my ps5 for gaming

[@mazcartel6274]

Hello World - would be good if you provide pricing for each of the product,Jusa saying wuld be better each product,And not finel price- 500. Gret video as Always 🤔

[@Mushroomsama777]

i still think they should have put the fans to intake and put them on the top

[@awoukii]

At 500$ you could possibly build a pc with something like an i3-12100f and arc a380 cs arc cards are great at encoding and is similar to a rx6400

[@toniteeeeeeee]

AMD's H264 encoder is awful, but they are really competitive with av1. As soon as Twitch will implement the newest tech I would recommend AMD for streaming

[@Karti200]

emm... just get A580 or A750 if you are lucky and forget about RX 6600 for streaming

[@eth3ir693]

What settings did you use on the amd card

[@Folsomdsf2]

Honestly, you could spend money differently in this build. you should have thought about spending a tiny bit more on the processor and getting the ability to have obs encoding supported by the integrated gpu. Intel has been supported on obs regarding this for a very very very long time. AMD's encoder has been snappy and fast for a very very long time and was supported on even the 7000 series quite some time ago. Quick sync was straight up better than nvenc at low bitrates even when introduced with the 2nd gen intel core processors when it was popped into obs. Not sure why people are stuck to nvidia on this one. I know many larger streamers were straight up paid via hardware to promote their shit and locked into the ecosystem, but many also eskew nvenc to this day because it's just kinda bad at lower bitrates and it's much better still to use a capture pc. But really, you should have absolutely looked into quicksync.

[@JAMR121]

Can yall review EZPC

[@Ettro911]

AMD has a chance but its not as good as the Nvidia card but in the near future the AMD and the Nvidia will be around the same.

[@dat-e.z3352]

av1 makes them on par

[@thefancult2762]

I saved up some money to buy a pc. I was wondering whether I should wait for the newer series gpus to launch or should I buy now....can someone point me in the right direction.

[@ArkAstral]

If you will be able to afford a 5080 or 5090 then wait if not just get what you need now. Or if your willing to wait a year+ for the 5070/5060

[@Off-Season-Reptiles-Nieko]

AMD truly shocked me maybe the way to go

[@asimplelifewoodworking8318]

Try more ram

[@subrock99]

Great video guys and I watch all of them. This video to me shows that this is not enough to be a twitch streaming PC and should be an example as to why you should spend a few extra $$ if possible to make more quality content for your twitch viewers. I understand the idea for the video was to show that AMD is capable for streaming. Keep up the entertaining videos!

[@lloydc5736]

Why use last gen AMD GPU, usually enjoy your videos, but this one make me wonder what the point of it is, the RX 6600 isn't a present gen AMD GPU, like the 7600 ?, which has a better encoder, looks like you're stacking the cards a little, and running it against in using a present gen Nvidia card, as this produces a rather a pointless test!, while I understand that would probably bring the cost point up around $600-650 cost point, cost point shouldn't be focus point , but matching comparative entry GPU's, and using a CPU that probably bottle-necks the GPU's, other than gaining views can't see what this offers in information, while title does suggests the price point of build, video doesn't provide valid performance output for potential streamers.

[@Katjajaja]

3050 is last gen Nvidia, I get what you mean though. The 3050 has AV1 encoding and the 6600 doesn't, but they are both last gen.

[@Quirkomatic]

11:13

[@NF276_]

Bread

[@jamesbrassfield8409]

Hello everyone

[@RandomTalksReal]

44 seconds ago is crazy

[@lurdgames]

500$ is too much to me 😢

[@hunterfrisson]

Never THIS early 😳

[@wolfe_53]

Wtf 800 views WTF HAPPENED 😭😭😭

[@xtoxic__6987]

I think NVIDIA was better at streaming

[@bafon]

Well it is 2024, but the GPU is from 2021 o.O

[@lucasn0tch]

Because in 2021, GPUs were scalped at a volume no time before or after that year could match.

[@bafon]

@@lucasn0tch "We always say to go with Nvidia if you plan on streaming, but what if AMD streaming is actually good now? Today we’re building a very budget build and testing to see if AMD is good in 2024 for live streaming to your favorite social media platforms." I was reffering to the description of the video, not the price, even tho you get rx 7600 for 200$ these days also.

[@FunBunChuck]

Obviously it's Nvidia. Even the Nvidia GeForce GTX 550 can stream better than anything by AMD. Nvidia is always automatically better, no matter what. A GeForce FX5200 128MB 4X AGP card can outperform the Radeon RX 7900XTX 24GB graphics card in streaming! Nvidiaaaaaah is SUPWEEEEEEEME!! SUPWEEEEEEEME!! *SUPWEEEEEEEME!!!* 🙃🙂🙃🙂🙃🤪 (Proceeds to run CS:GO2 at 4K on ultra with EVERYTHING, settings maxxed out including Ray-Tracing one an Intel Pentium 4 2Ghz with the GefForce FX5200 128MB 4x AGP card while streaming on Twitch,... purely on the sheer raw Supremacy of Nvidia's name brand alone) 🙃🤣🙃🤣🙃🤣🙃🤣🙃🤪

[@thecool90skidsantiago61]

Bruh

[@AlieuIbrahimKamara-w2f]

Hi guys it me again i need ur hlp plz rply😢😢

[@graysonaube]

What?

[@JosiahLM2010]

2 minutes

[@gamingturbo4910]

First

[@paulsylvester1394]

I love you guys but you are so buried in your world that you just don’t get some things! Gamers do want to smoothly play games they enjoy. Some are obsessed with their machines. That is fine! But how many people really care about live streaming. Most users have zero skills with respect to making content and though they can get better, it is just not a skill set they will ever master! They need their pc to be able to communicate well and to be able to monitor their records and finances.

[@thuunderz]

I got my first Cyberpower PC with a Ryzen 7 7700 and rx 7600 literally yesterday because of you guys. You guys are some of the most consistent tech youtubers i have ever seen on this platform and I dont see you guys falling off anytime soon.

[@JackPhillips448]

You should have built one yourself, as it feels so much more rewarding.

[@sol-hb8zg]

@@JackPhillips448fair enough but not everyone wants to for many reasons

[@BREEZYM6015]

How much did it cost?

[@venti13]

​@@JackPhillips448 I bet it does haha but so many mistakes could happen. It's better to buy one to get to know one then build your own

[@ImJusSha]

@@JackPhillips448yea it does but not everybody is a pc builder some people just want the joy of being a pc gamer

[@demonzero677]

I've heard of people actually adding a second GPU, specifically the Intel ARC A310 as it's a small single slot card with no extra power needed, and has the new AV1 incoder in it. I'd be interested to see you guys taking a crack at such a set up, cuz being able to use either of the above GPUs for gameplay while using the ARC GPU for the streaming load could be a pretty viable set up. Mind you, this is all based on what I've heard. never actually tried it myself, but if it's a viable set up I'd almost invest in said ARC just to get into live streaming.

[@theminec]

If you stream to KZbin this is a good idea, but for twitch it doesn't rlly make sense, as they don't support AV1 yet (or even HEVC for that matter) unfortunately.

[@BarnOwl-dx8vg]

@@theminec av1 and x265 is coming twitch soon but nvidia gets it first

[@theminec]

@@BarnOwl-dx8vg FINALLY!!! Only took them several moths after they initially announced it. When is it coming to AMD GPUs however?

[@voltageplays]

Matt’s “What the sigma” at 11:13 had me dead😂

[@CosmicDriftR]

more like 11:12 but yeah

[@kTrezzy.]

@@CosmicDriftRmore like 11:13 but yeah

[@Johnny_Duster]

@@kTrezzy.more yeah like 5:80964

[@CosmicDriftR]

@@kTrezzy. its starts at more like 11:12 and if someone clicked on it they would understand better then 11:13

[@kTrezzy.]

@@CosmicDriftR11:13 is where he says it 11:12 is a second before he said it

[@SLVR_VT]

I’ve used AMD gpus for streaming since 2023, and it’s never let me down. Granted, I used a Ryzen 7 that whole time until recent. If you really wanna find the value with AMD streaming, I’d not go entry level. At that point, NVidia’s NVENC is just better, though as you go up the price bracket (say 300 us bucks for the 6700XT, or a 16GB 7600xt), things tend to line up better. If you’re dead-set on AMD for streaming, I’d go 7000 series.

[@BladeCrew]

Yea, cause it has av1.

[@DeadlyKiller54]

this. i streamed with my 6600XT, and 6700XT, both cards for streams were honestly not up to par for me. Once i went 4070 Super, i was golden.

[@JasonChen927]

​@@DeadlyKiller54 You double the GPU price budget, so it's obvious you get better performance... Is there any Nvidia GPU at 300usd that can do better than 6700XT in gaming/streaming? RTX 4060?

[@DeadlyKiller54]

@@JasonChen927 i sold my 6700xt for 300 to my buddy, and got my 4070 super for 450. i work at best buy, so i had a chance to get it for that price and got it. for 300, nah there isn't but the quality of stream you will have will not be so good, and i had my 6700XT for over a year. when it did stream good, it was solid, but it got worse over time, and my streams looked very pixeled, even with my bitrate at 8000 like these guys with the 6600.

[@SLVR_VT]

@@DeadlyKiller54 Did you make sure the setup was up to par on the software side as well? I wouldn’t stream beyond 1080p 60fps on any GPU below 350 USD, simply because the hardware just isn’t there. My 6600XT worked perfectly for that, and so did my 6700XT, though the games I played did have to be cut back a little on the graphical side. I use AMD HW h.264 at 6000kb/s for 1080p 60fps.

[@thegaminglel8584]

why use h.264? its worse in every way than h.265

[@toniteeeeeeee]

twitch only allows h264. they will switch to av1 in the future though

[@Braydon2144]

I mean if youre building a $500 pc. you gotta get a decent cpu. I build my roommate a pc for $525 and I got a 5600g for $90. No shot I would get an I3

[@ad0n3xus]

How would these tests have differed if you had used the Ryzen the Ryzen 5500 or 5600? The AMD gpu would have benefitted from SAM (smart access memory) being paired with an AMD cpu.

[@Arejen03]

How about quick sync Intel arc? I feel that nvenc still has advantage over amd codec

[@moleedaboi]

This convinced me to get an i5 12400f instead. Thanks.

[@BadDayGaming]

I never understood the "AMD can't do it" kind of thing people say. I streamed with my 5600 XT, my 6800, and now my 7900 GRE. I stream with my Xbox and last time I checked that had AMD graphics in it

[@trxjanhoopz]

i stream on obs with a 6600 xt can you give me your obs settings my streams are always pixelated

[@GDBwrld]

@@trxjanhoopzmines too

[@TheApatheticGuy]

A lot of people had legit complaints about AMD performance and drivers 10+ years ago, and I think most of the negativity is a holdover from that. They've stepped up their game significantly.

[@JasonChen927]

Just curious. Will a 6-core cpu such as R5 3600 or 5500 be better for streaming while gaming? I did some research. They performs similarly in gaming and are now priced almost the same(~85 usd). The 2 extra cores should help right?

[@danielivanov930]

on the nvidia side the quality looked better

[@ozgurozgunel2885]

the video I am looking for ages guys. You are legends thanks!

[@simplyplayful4161]

Im excited to see what kinda performance ill get out of this 25 dollar r5 1600 and the 20 dollar rx580 2048sp I got. 260 total for the build just waiting on a case.

[@mikeshadez]

Toasty bros definitely the best budget builder on KZbin, I bulit pc for 300 for my bro using a 3500x 5500xt 8gb A320 got case ssd psp ram cooler hdd fans super cheap runs excellent budget building is fun.

[@TheEnderCyclops]

Half of me doesn’t wanna go NVIDIA cos that’s what everyone else does, and half of me thinks I should cos of the encoders and stuff Decisions decisions…

[@jordhan1]

i would also expect intel gpus to be decent for streaming, you guys could test that soon if you want

[@Drev222]

5:00, it didn't click home! LOL, I am sure you went back and snugged up your connections... but my OCD saw this, and I had to watch it a few times. Please don't take this as a negative, I am genuinely enjoying your content!

[@bumbaclot813]

Loved this video. Comparison of AMD and Nvidia in live streaming is a great idea.

[@TechTunerLife]

I wouldn’t go with anything lower than a 6Core 12Threads CPU for streaming and gaming! 4Core and 8Threads just cutting too close! I don’t recommend anyone building a streaming/gaming pc with a quad core CPU..

[@Terry-PC.Enthusiast]

Nvidia rules with professional applications. AMD produces great gaming GPU's but they fall behind everywhere else.It's why AMD's are less expensive. If AMD ever catches Nvidia in these fields you can kiss inexpensive AMD GPU's goodby.

[@bumbaclot813]

It's the "stay in your lane" approach, it seems. Lol, but I've run all AMD for my past two builds. I have no complaints, probably because I'm only gaming.

[@sebastiangomez3811]

AMD for gaming. Would of got a NVIDIA gpu but the prices were high

[@sebastiangomez3811]

Was not going to buy the 4060 or 4060 ti at the time

[@moaa042]

Nah AMD doesn't have the market share to start being finnicky with prices, they're struggling just to stay competitive

[@bumbaclot813]

@@moaa042 they seem to be doing fine.

[@merakbourque3853]

this is practically my build. More specifically, I have a MSI B760M P DDR4, intel i3 12100f, 16gb 3200MHZram (RGB), 512gb SSD Kingston?, and a recent addition the RX 6600 XT. It's great for 1080p high-ultra gaming. Prob would be good for low/medium 1440p too.

[@teexfo1227]

That was cool to see how they can be alike and different

[@HarrisonKarnwea]

Pls make a 200 dollars gaming pc

[@OfficialBottlevr]

I have a question is this pc good to play games on steam bc I have been saving and I am finally ready to buy a pc pls answer

[@jonpeley]

The problem here is not Nvidia or AMD, it's the 4 cores i3. You should, at least, use a 6 core CPU.

[@RealSquigglyMDV]

I go for the one with the most fps which AMD does the i3 didn't get to showcase that

[@inGameweTrusted]

09:04 I changed my cpu for This Game..I3 bottlenecking 😢

[@PhillipLemmon]

Ok, I was confused at first... I thought this was going to be an Intel cpu/Nvidia gpu Vs An all AMD build, lol But you're just using the different GPU's.... I get it now, lol

[@BREEZYM6015]

Still using an i7 8700k and ASUS GTX 1060 6GB Turbo. 😂

[@Shiggstream]

I've done a good amount of streaming with my 6700xt, nobody has ever commented on image quality issues, and watching it back myself, neither do I.

[@moleedaboi]

Yikes. I've been watching test streams for almost every amd card and the stream quality isn't that good. I'm buying amd either way, but their encoder is underwhelming.

[@boondock6055]

Heres an idea first of all love ya both more the skinny than the fatty,but test graphics cards old to new on streaming capabilities with an equivalant cpu cheapest to best

[@Tirebay2]

Another tasty, toasty video. I have used both AMD & Nvidea cards. My favorite GPU is the Nvidea 1650 super. Also the Zalman PC cases are great value.

[@victoresarey4036]

Can anyone tell me if a Asus tuff a620m plus wifi is a ok board for a ryzen 5 7600?

[@blastprocessing1]

Yeah that's a good motherboard, I say go for it.

[@Gero141]

Should have used a 3060 for this comparison.

[@Gamer4908BS]

Same old Nvidia Software and DLSS and AMD value

[@nicholasreyes8806]

i wish yall would explain the build and its components in further detail, rather just showing the component and reading a product description... the CONTENT is good though.

[@the_RazorFire]

Day 26 of trying to get a PC from pcbros ❤❤

[@robertanderson5735]

Could u Stream ok with a R5 2600x and RTX 2060 super 16 gb ddr4 3000 ram? Been thinking about getting another monitor and giving it a try?

[@NowThatsPCGaming]

Absolutely! newers titles might give you some issues, but 99% of games? yes.

[@hlklea]

use nvidia encoder and u will be fine

[@moleedaboi]

You guys need to get out of my walls. Except I already decided rx 6600 + i3 1200f. And now I'm back to square one....seems like I have to reconsider Nvidia... Also saving a bit extra for a 12400f seems like the move.

[@AAAZZZ-f3i]

spend more money and not too much right AND RYZEN 5 5800X 8 CORE 16 THREADS $200.00 on NEWEGG CHEAPEST GAMING 8 CORE CPU ON THE MARKET and use the AMD WRATH RGB COOLER that can befound on NEWEGG or EBAY BRAND NEW at a good price I have not looked it up have a nice day

[@thepreparedgamer4200]

I had a Radeon 6800xt and for live streaming it was ok. I now have 2 newer computers. One has a ryzen 7600 and Radeon 7600 and the other has a ryzen 7950 and a Radeon 7800xt. Let me say the Radeon 7000 series is way better than the 6000 for streaming. And the Radeon 7600 is a very affordable GPU. Just saying

[@BladeCrew]

I will rather go with nvidia, if you have a 4 core 8 thread cpu or even 6 core 12 thread I would go nvidia because the nvenc encoder takes all the load off the cpu and giving much headroom. A good example of cpu demanding games is Horizon Forbidden West where I have a 6 core and 12 thread cpu and being used at 60%-81%, The last of us the same, 72%-89% cpu usage. If you dont play tripple a demanding games then go with amd, i wont use 4 core 8 threads on amd but will use 6 cores 12 threads on amd. Also you can go on a lower bitrate and still look better on that nvidia nvenc encoder.

[@Shuttterbugg]

I have 13700k 7800mzh ddr5 usb 4 10 and 2.5 gig and a 7900xtx a d streaming us amazing I switched formna 3080 to amd and I'll nevwr go back