STOLEN GTO? FAKE? TAG JOB? PHS SAYS - 1965 GTO REVIVAL

[@5150mxVW]

What is your take on this car? Drop a comment and let me know.

[@lateefcarrere1649]

The "experts" say it isn't a GTO, you say it is, and I say hopefully it's not stolen, either way. When you finish deciphering the codes, you can either restore it (true GTO), or build a tribute car (LeMans). Make it what you want.😁👍

[@radio-pirol]

I hope you find a number on the frame that matches the other tags. Would be less valuable but better than a stolen GTO that gets you into trouble…

[@snowdogs59]

Personally I think it is a GTO, at least the body. Even if it isn’t you should build a killer replica. I mean, who really cares if you are keeping it? You could find a much more trashed GTO, is that better? Great series J!

[@eskieman3948]

Jason.... i left you a message in your initial GTO video.....did you pull the back seat out, and see if you can find a build sheet? Second possible places - in the back seat window panels, and on top of your gas tank. Long shot, but if you can find the remnants of one, you'll know what it was originally built to be! Otherwise, you have a "Le Goat" !🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐

[@dougtheviking6503]

Nice car Jason , You live up north. Could of been rusted, Hot Rodded or wrecked down in a ditch .Engine blown at some point Who knows ? . Two guys or a guy got together put his car back on the road . Swapped out tags. Great find for you and surely you can get it going. Killer shop !

[@jeffreyvietzke228]

Have had these cars for over 45 years. Gto was an option on the lemans and shared the same rear ribbed panel. Only the base Tempest had the 9 ribs. Also, the checkered flag speedo only came when the Rally Dash was ordered with the tach. Most GTOs had the cluster you have. My take: this is a real GTO and not a LeMans. The quarter holes, the pedals, the Fontaine Blue, it all adds up to a GTO with swapped plates. Probably due to theft decades ago. But take heart: it’s now a lemans with the GTO option 382!

[@kevinstufflebeam2753]

Exactly right.

[@GenX...MCMLXV]

Yep it clicked when he mentioned the checkered flags because I've been in quite a few that had the same cluster

[@suewatson1912]

Yes...The GTO has 3 holes in the rear quarter panel for the GTO emblem. The Lemans has 12 holes in the rear quarter panel for the seperate letters. I just went out in the garage and looked in my 1965 Lemans trunk.

[@grabasandwich]

So much time has passed that many of these old cars and trucks have been wrecked, stolen, rebuilt or whatever. I think we're long past the point of there being many hidden gems left.

[@christopherarmbruster6241]

Let sleeping dogs ..stay sleeping....u could endup in a world of headaches.

[@gilbertnowak5770]

I hate to say this but YOU GOT IT BACKWARDS....That car was Stolen and Lemans Tags were put on it so it could be titled...Look and see if it has a Limited Slip. My 65 GTO came with a 3-speed . they were avalable with both 3 and 4 speeds. Insurance was cheaper with the 3 speed. Check teh engine numbers and see if it is a 389. The Frame has a Vin Stamped on it but you need to lift the body off to read it!

[@josephracicot4443]

I agree he should lift the body off.

[@realmongo7565]

It looks like you might be right.

[@Coronetguy]

That was exactly what I was thinking from early on too. Good call!

[@Wil_Liam1]

Actually, a bore scope,or even a mirror and a light will reveal the numbers... There is no need to waste time removing the body from the chassis...

[@WestsideCritters]

It’s a No Freaking Brainer 🧠 … Don’t be stupid, Definitely stolen car and good vin and body tag to title !!! 🤪 😂 🤪

[@lancenutter1067]

In the early 80’s I had a 66 Tempest, Automatic. Sold it to a friend who also had a 67 GTO, manual. He wrecked the Tempest and we got a 4 door Lemans with a good Frame and swapped it out. Perfect fit, to be honest. Had parts all over the yard. This was a common thing. Will be fun to see what your frame numbers indicate.

[@danoneill2846]

Cool building !

[@grabasandwich]

Needs a little sound deadening 😂 or he needs to use a mic when he's 20 ft from the camera 😖

[@5150mxVW]

thank you Dan....yes it had to really tweak the audio as the lights in there are sooo noisy . I have to change them to led

[@Mikefngarage]

yea I was checking that out too....way bigger. but now he needs to get a LIFT in there.

[@mikescudder4621]

​@@Mikefngarage Nice to see you round here Mike!

[@PapiDoesIt]

It's tricky on these old cars. My mom had a 64 Tempest convertible with all the GTO stuff except the drivetrain, which was a straight six with a powerglide. I had a 70 Chevelle and the build sheet said 350 horse 396 with M22 transmission, 3.73 posi, bucket seats, console, SS gauges, the works. But it wasn't a SS, just optioned like one.

[@johnkelly6942]

I was 100% sure my 1955 Chevy Nomad (in primer, empty rolling shell) had all original sheetmetal until I took off the front clip. Bent frame horns showed that frame had been in accident at some point. Obviously a front end crash would necessitate new sheetmetal. I’m not doing a restoration so not too upset about that. The interesting thing is the accident happened so long ago that the paint job on the front was completely faded and matched the rest of the car. My Nomad is 10 years older than your car, but both all old enough to have issues nobody is around to talk about any more.

[@Wil_Liam1]

Digging the new shop btw,lots more space and sooo much quieter than the old cramped one was !!

[@pcbullets8726]

That pretty crazy. It kinda adds up to stolen, but you never know. It will be interesting to see what the frame #s say. The new garage looks great!

[@rustyaxelrod]

I stupidly (I guess) built a one off car like this back in the late 1980’s. My ‘70 GTO got rear ended hard, way beyond my skills at the time. I bought a ‘70 lemans Sport as a parts car. They sat beside each other for almost a year and I got discouraged about fixing the GTO and decided to put ALL those parts on the LeMans. I had no idea of the value of the Goat at the time but it’s options were tinted glass, deluxe wheel covers, a console/floor shift, and …a 455. It had manual drum brakes all around, no power steering, no nuthin extra and a 3sp manual! Very low production numbers on 455/3sp manual cars. The LeMans got all of it, the brakes, engine/trans, clutch pedal and linkage, rear (3:55 gears), sway bars, control arms (boxed in the rear) the support braces for the rear control arm mounts, non A/C heater box, dash, front clip with the rad support and radiator, rear valance with the exhaust cut outs. Anything that was different on the GTO went on the LeMans and I had both cars apart side by side to compare even little stuff like rear bumper hardware. What I did not do was swap the data tags or put GTO badges on it anywhere, I even put the LeMans badge in the grill and on the fenders with the Sport chevrons on the front fenders. I was kinda proud of it until I realized the value of the GTO 😳 a few years later (what was left of the GTO was long gone). Divorce forced the sale of the car in 2003 and it went to N Florida, I have fantasized about tracking it down but I doubt that will ever happen. If it’s still a car, I bet more than one person has scratched their head over this odd collection of parts, I believe in ‘71 you could order a LeMans with the Endura nose on it but that wasn’t an option in ‘70 so this was an impossible car. It was a solid car with very little rust, never wrecked and sporting original red paint when I had it, the white vinyl top had rotted and I had cleaned all that off and painted the top black semigloss enamel. Anyway I’m rambling now but this car was part of the family for many years and I got to feelin a little nostalgic. It’s possible this car has an odd story like that also maybe.

[@CTmoog]

The new shop looks awesome buddy! Good to see you and M1 hanging out. I'll come up and help you remove the body! I'm a pro! hahah! 😆🤣😂

[@natebean151]

During those years they did put vin on frame on top left rear rail. They can be hard see even with body off the frame

[@scottjrichter]

Coming from the rust belt I am going with the frame rotted out and they swapped it. That's my best case. My gut tells me its stolen though.

[@brianfleisch9210]

I can tell you right now without any question that the vin tag you showed has been swapped out. GM NEVER affixed these tags with a standard rivet. The rivet used was a rossette style, or in other words, it had a flower shaped head. Someone pulled the tag and riveted this with a standard rivet. Also, the data tag on the firewall was a hollow rivet, I couldn't see in your video, but at the factory, these rivets were filled in with body sealant when they sealed the firewall. Look to see how these are presented. Also look at PHS, the serial numbers on the build sheet will have the engine serial number and the transmission number. The transmission will have a metal tag mounted on the side. Also, when the body is lifted off the frame on the rear drivers side, another serial number will be stamped on the frame. It can really only be seen with the body taken off. All these numbers should correspond with the build sheet provided they have not been swapped out. I firmly believe that you have GTO that, as you have said, someone stole the tags. As someone else mentioned, look under the rear seat and under the gas tank between the trunk. All cars had these build sheets placed in these locations during assembly, and these sheets should match your PHS and provide you with more clarity to what you truly have. It's pretty sickening that this was done should it turn out these tags were swapped. Do you have any ownership history that you could trace? Im sorta on the confused side as to why you didn't look deeper into obtaining PHS prior to purchasing, or maybe I'm missing the timeline sequence of events leading uo to discovering all this. I wish you good luck and hope you can get the answers from some of the things I have suggested to look for.

[@jamesthompson8008]

Looks like it just got relegated to future project status, one that can wait until AFTER you get the shop set up & functional. Once the info came back from PHS, COMBINED with visibly incorrect rivets for vin/data plates, it means there's no legitimacy for it being GTO. Yet, it doesn't mean it couldn't be a fun project, but now you've revealed the issue, so how can you EVER get it LEGAL for registration/insurance?? Mustie makes an excellent point, that its something that happened years ago, when the car wasn't worth much. It's possible the project(then) never got finished, & here's the issue now 50 some yrs later.

[@meetjohndoe1078]

no matter how it turns out, that model, that make, that year, all encapsulates the mid 1960's kickass, balls out , pre epa era!

[@jimmyeatshoe]

Great shop Jason! Stoked that you have a big space now…. Maybe get a lav mic as there is a big echo when you are at a distance from the camera 🤙

[@5150mxVW]

Thank you Jimmy , the lights on the shop are brutal noisy . I had to turn back round noise reduction to 50% and use hum reduction . Plus I only had my gopro when Mustie1 was there and GoPros are useless without a mic . I will look into the mic , thanks for the tip

[@jimmyeatshoe]

@@5150mxVW Your welcome Jason. Keep up the great content!! 👍🇬🇧

[@fourhillsfarm]

Master cylinder is wrong for sure,1965 car would have single circuit. I'm thinking it was originally a three speed on the column car, hence the mismatch between steering column sleeve and steering wheel. Check the frame for the fork that holds one end of the z bar.

[@yepyep340]

for sure! and if it's a posi.

[@bobbrinkerhoff3592]

@@yepyep340 having a posi , is not a sure sign of a GTO . You could order a Tempest with one .

[@yepyep340]

@@bobbrinkerhoff3592 True. But lets check to see and add to the theory it's a GTO with Lemans tag.

[@dougtodd305]

Thought the master cylinder was wrong also? Swaping in pedal assemblies isn't hard. I bought a 64 Chevy truck,good runner ,nice stepside, cab was all kinds of messed up,bo I got a big back window truck took the cab and dog house and put it on the shortbed stepside , presto!!!!

[@nopenoper9644]

Check the hidden VINs and the rivets holding the VIN plate on. If it is stolen be a good guy and return it to the true owner. A lot of ways to determine the month and year the body was made vs. the trim tag.

[@burtnelson1987]

OK, the engine number SHOULD match part of the VIN and the rear end numbers also would match to some of them. As for the frame numbers, there are several places it will be stamped , usually on the top of the rails halfway between the front and rear kick out. It's not easy to chase them down, but Mustie is right about it possibly being stolen ages ago.

[@googleusergp]

Not always. GM didn't start stamping VIN numbers on engines and transmissions consistently until the 1968 model year.

[@bmaharg7990]

Man that is a nice shop.

[@5150mxVW]

thank you

[@kearnsey64]

Yes and he has to pay for it now so please subscribe, lol!

[@Tyson-u3m]

Stolen cars and rolled odometers were ABSOLUTELY common place in the 60s and 70s.

[@timmatheny-lo9ze]

In my late teens had a friend who bought a 70 gto judge. Teal with orange trim, 3 speed in the floor. Had been wrecked. We found a farmer that had a 70 LeMans bad body good frame. He wanted it gone, so I was free. Motor was a Ram Air 3 noisy rods but it ran. I was riding in the back when he got on it. Pulled Hard! He pulled the motor to rebuild it. Put in a 400 out of a totaled 76 TA. Had the spoiler,trim over fenders and logo on glove box, as well as functional RA hood and in side pull for fresh air to hood. Very cool car. Back in that time most folks thought of it ugly and a gas hog. They moved away. And I lost track of them. Great memories.

[@josephracicot4443]

I think it has been proven and documented that the majority of it is a GTO, and therefore, I do agree that it is, in fact, a GTO with wrong vin tags.

[@5150mxVW]

i like it Joseph

[@davehotz7810]

Stolen GTO 😂

[@georgewilson9121]

@@davehotz7810 not necessarily could be a junk yard put together from random old parts

[@sparehead2163]

Just love your optimism so I reckon your right it's a GTO cause u deserve it

[@benkrom2737]

Back in 65, all you had to do to steal a car was take a wire and connect to coil and battery roll the car and pop clutch in gear and go. By 65 everyone wanted one. Just find a wrecked leMans and take the vin and put on a stolen GTO. I was around at the time. GTOs wetr getting stolen soo often 🧐 Fenders on Lemans and GTO are the same. Just the GTO has an emblem and Lemans a Fenders fins emblem probably from the same car the vin and body tag came from 💁‍♂️

[@harpo1-j7y]

all you had to do is carry a xtra ignition switch un plug and plug in the other ignition gone in 60 seconds

[@benkrom2737]

@chrisharper1692 Just run 16ga wire from + battery to coil and short starter relay with screw driver. Car start right up . Extra ignition you had to have correct plug to work. If car was manual transmission just the wire from battery to coil. KISS keep it simple stupid 😁

[@harpo1-j7y]

@ agreed, both methods worked. All 64,65 GTO had the same amount of prongs for the ignition switch. Took less than 30 sec to pop out the switch, plug in a new switch with a different key 🤷🏾‍♂️same difference just different methods whatever works stupid !! 😂

[@1STLAR2147]

One other detail, check the numbers on the block, and the numbers on the passenger side of the transmission near the bottom lip where the vacuum module goes. The numbers should match each other if they are original and they should match the last digits or the vin.

[@GlennBalent-nq7rh]

Good to see you and Mustie..

[@5150mxVW]

thank you Glenn, always a good day when M1 comes to town. He wanted to help me work on something but I was cooked from the week of emptying the old shop and i just wanted to hang out

[@bookooc5605]

I would never ever bet against Mustie! I hope you didn't pay GTO prices for it. In any case, I hope you are right. Glad to see you posting again! Is this your new shop?

[@jamesdamron2065]

There's a partial vin# in the trunk drip rail !!! & a partial vin# on the cowl too

[@garageassembled4701]

When your 53 and your dad had a 65 like mine you pay attention. Dad had a power brake booster in his that he had to change out. Circa 1975. Then the dash ribbing like this one. Dads was a two speed auto with white interior. His was red with a white hard top and have been looking for it the last 3 years. In California. Starting to be rare car!

[@josephracicot4443]

Your stolen vin tags are probably on a restored le mans posing as a GTO in a museum, or a guys garage somewhere.

[@tonyt8805]

I still love this car!!! 1965 is my all time favorite....🤗

[@5150mxVW]

me too , thank you Tony

[@martybgood62]

The checkered flag on speedo only came with the Rally Gauge package which I believe also came with a tach. Mine doesn't have either one. I put a Sun tach in far right pod which fit perfectly.

[@mattkaustickomments]

So… could be a GTO with a replacement LeMans front clip & dash & they just used the LeMans’ tags? Any way to check the windshield for date codes too? Also are there differences in GTO/LeMans radiators you can check? Your friend’s idea of GTO body on a LeMans frame is also viable. Can’t wait till you ID the frame.

[@fixit4u73]

That building is beautiful!!! I'm so jealous!

[@5150mxVW]

thank you , I was in my old shop for the last time today with my son ....we were damn , this place sucks lol

[@mikescudder4621]

Dilemma!! But does it matter? Its cool, its old school, has the GTO badge, just rock it!

[@mikescudder4621]

It is fun though... the theories and investigation. Congrats on the new place. No more headaches i hope?!

[@randyrussell4331]

It might be a long shot but if you pull the body off the frame check for a vin on the right rear of frame rail.might be one stamped on the frame.

[@michaelh.9794]

Jason, I'm sure this has already been mentioned, but have you looked for a Build Sheet behind the rear seat or behind the door skins?

[@maxyundt8202]

Clutch z bar bracket was welded onto the frame on the early a bodys (64-67). But only on the manual cars.. so that should tell you what the frame is. EDIT: just rewatched and I can see the z bar bracket on your frame, so unless someone welded it on at some point that is a manual trans chassis.

[@marklaumond5241]

I've got a 64 the phs came back as a gto when I re-did the apolstery I found the original build sheet in the springs of the rear seat with the gto code maybe look there

[@5150mxVW]

nice! thank you for the tip Mark

[@stormcloud3027]

Mustie1on the job ,,💯,, 👍

[@5150mxVW]

he wanted to turn some wrenches that day ...i was just like man, i've moving cars and stuff all week....lets just hang out :)

[@splender88]

Even if you work out all of the numbers and it is a for sure GTO you have a ton of work ahead of you. You will have to find a lot of parts to make up for the mismatched parts and I can imagine what is left of the floors. As long as you didn't pay too much for it the motor alone may be worth the trouble.

[@chrismansker8870]

what dose the vin on the motor say and the block code that could be helpful to know if original.

[@fourhillsfarm]

Gto in 65 didn't have a rear sway bar. Chassis was probably tempest. Some gto s were titled as tempests.

[@repete2362]

i believe pontiac never used a rear sway bar.

[@RpmAuto]

Well at least you rescued it. Someone out here would love to have that car no matter if it's a GTO Or LeMans. A fully restored GTO will cost a fortune. You got something you can work with

[@marcbeebe]

As a VW guy you should be well familiar with how hard it can be to figure out what you've got when dealing with vehicles that have easily interchangeable parts across many years and models. :p

[@kevinstufflebeam2753]

Not all GTOs had the rally gages with the tach and checkered flag on the speedometer. A lot came with gages like yours but they did have chrome around the inside on each side. The brake booster was just a single master cylinder. The BEST way is to cut in the trunk and find the vin number on the drivers side upper frame rail under where you were looking.

[@kevinstufflebeam2753]

You're correct about the quarters looking to be GTO body. I believe that the Tempest is the one with 10 ribs and the Lemans tail panel was identical to GTO. Those rivets aren't rosette. It is the entire VIN number on the frame I believe. I think that was a standard shift GTO that was Fontaine Blue with black interior.

[@AndrewHCann]

Excellent video Jason :) , Darren :) also say think same you both saying about that car and big puzzle to find out to what is ! Also hope find out what it this car and be interesting to know!

[@joequillun7790]

Frankenstein. Hopefully you'll recoup the extra $ you spent on something it's not. Part out some of it. Keep the stuff you like. Looks like a long haul, depending what direction you go. Be interesting to see what you do with it. You look like you've got time, use it wisely. Good luck.

[@christophercornetet5037]

The Plot thickens!! Haha i loved this episode!! "Good cop, bad cop" with mustie1!! Haha

[@keiths8800]

I just like the fact that the engine is in the front. Sure, bugs are fun or I wouldn’t watch the channel. But a rustored LeGoat is a nice build.

[@Eric-Franks]

I miss watching Mustie1 I just can't do the hour-long Plus videos

[@MrGMawson2438]

Cheers guys

[@derekwalters6132]

I’m with Mustie on this one, think it may be a Lemans or a Tempest frame underneath a GTO body. Or at least from the front clip back

[@DeanCanino]

It's going to drive you nuts not knowing!

[@Hanlonsgarage]

Still waiting on the next installment about this car

[@leefogel2240]

Really need to pull the body and check the frame. Also need to check the casting numbers on the block, heads and rear diff. I think it’s a legit GTO body with swapped LeMans ID tags. But you really need to check all of the numbers to establish its provenance.

[@5150mxVW]

thank you , i know the engine is not og but I will check the diff and check the frame

[@tygger6069]

Might also be a partial vin on the cowl area near the heater box. Good luck.

[@5150mxVW]

thank you

[@charliejones7574]

Factory rivets should be kind os star shaped

[@5150mxVW]

yes 👍

[@gregholliday797]

See if you can find the build sheet behind the rear seat.

[@Rottingboards]

Those VW bugs look so awesome behind this thing. Time to roll this thing out. LOL. Just giving you a poke in the ribs.

[@DeanCanino]

Call the State Police they can find out if it is stolen. I had a 67 Camaro that had hidden Vin # stamped on the firewall underneath the fan blower motor !

[@SD70ACE-]

Yeah call the state police and end up without a car😢

[@Mikefngarage]

One question.....is the engine a 326 or 400. did you check the numbers? If I recall correct Lemans came with 326 and GTO came with 400. Run the engine numbers.

[@Mikefngarage]

I stand corrected 326 or 389....they look the same on the outside. again I am doing this from memory. They should look the same but 326 was lemans and 389 was gto.........

[@stevecr8934]

Does the car have an ID dealer delivery paper behind the rear seat or under the gas tank?

[@matzrat5006]

the original was totalled and they stuck the tags and the hardware onto a Lemans.

[@yepyep340]

😏

[@kevinstufflebeam2753]

Lemans tags put on a GTO body.

[@matzrat5006]

@@kevinstufflebeam2753 yup, sure could be.

[@Wil_Liam1]

My guess is that someone's worrying too much about authenticity or if it is or isn't instead of getting it running and driving and fixed up and enjoying it as a GTO was a LeMans with special badging,engine performance enhancements,etc but still a LeMans GTO. Fix it and drive it or sell it and forget it...

[@GenX...MCMLXV]

when you've wanted a GTO as long as he has , authenticity does matter

[@5150mxVW]

I hear you WL and I'll roll it for what it is but when you pay GTO money you want a GTO....like Gen X said I've wanted a GTO for 40 years :)

[@Wil_Liam1]

@5150mxVW Ahhh,didn't realize that it was bought at genuine gto price J, in which case yeah I'd be ill as hell at someone along with myself ..

[@driftwoodpile]

I gotta agree w Mustie. I’m thinking 1970s backyard swap a roo. Either way it’s a cool car. Build it up!

[@5150mxVW]

thank you DwP

[@stephenricketts7764]

Being British I don't know all the variables I confess but Musti 1's take on this car seems to make sense to me. I know you want a GTO but I am not convinced you have the real deal there I am sorry to say. Someone has hacked that car about for whatever reason, possibly criminal? Things like that were easy to do back then. It happened here too, the cars were cheap so people did questionable things even 'cut & shut' (this is not a 'cut & shut). I will look forward to the 'will it run' video and I wont mind if I am proved wrong but I am getting old and I would like to think some experience counts. Take care Jason and thanks for the detective video. 😁👍👍

[@whitaker2107]

if by some crazy chance the motor is correct to the body there is a partial vin on the front of the block

[@jonhbaker1511]

My 65 GTO was stolen back in 1991 in Dayton, Ohio and was not recovered.... still searching for her..😢

[@mtrgv]

It's a good car. I wouldn't bogged down if it's a real GTO or not. At this point in time it's just a good car that needs some work to be a driver. If you're keeping it, just enjoy it and fix her up here and there as you go. As long as the frame is solid, you're good to go forward with repairs/restorations of the various systems, etc. Also get the VIN tag(s) issues figured out so you can register/title it.

[@Todd-p4t]

The master cylinder is a later model. The 67 model year was the first year for the dual pot design. How many volts does the water pump have? If it's 8 it's a 1968 or older engine or at least they changed the timing cover. GTO's could have single wheel peel. Check under the rear seat. There might be a build sheet.

[@dclipper8052]

The Lemans didn't have 10 ribs on the tail lights--it was the same piece that the GTO got. The Tempest had a 10 rib center panel and tail light lenses with 5 molded ribs.

[@EAndrePG]

Idk what car is that, but what matters is that it couldnt be cooler

[@yepyep340]

CORRECT! "Hard Top convertible " later known as "Sport coup" are my favorite. But the post cars are something around 150 pounds lighter.

[@michaeltedrow]

Looks like it has LeMans front fenders. You can see where the "326" emblem goes and the chrome fins where the GTO emblem usually goes on the front fenders. Such a mix! Also, looks like maybe the heads are later models, I can barely see the two digits on the center exhaust ports which generally denotes a 1968 or later top end. 65's had no numbers on the center exhaust ports, 66's had three numbers (i.e. 093), 67's generally had the 428HO "670" closed chamber heads, and then came 68 which started the two digit head numbers. Always casting dates on the heads and block for reference as well. Just a few tidbits of info I could see in the video. I would say that the body itself is probably a true GTO because of the three holes for the GTO emblem in the rear quarters. But the fenders are definitely LeMans. Oh and the dash...the only gauge cluster that had the "flags" were ones that came with the rally gauges, which this car does not have (neither did my '65). Also, check on the frame right under the brake master cylinder and look to see if it has the metal tab welded to the side of the frame and mounted vertically where the clutch linkage mounts. that would tell you if its possibly an original 4speed car (or had a working 4 speed at some point). The valve covers are definitely '67 or later. OK, EDIT: previous video does show the clutch linkage tab welded on to the side of the frame under the brake master cylinder. Also, the pedals...when a GTO was a non-power brakes unit, there was no chrome trim on any of the clutch, brake or gas pedals; when it had power brakes, it came with chrome trim around the pedals. Yours has no trim, which would elude to manual brakes (which yours has manual brakes). So some consistency there.

[@5150mxVW]

Thank you for all the great information Michael . Very , very appreciated

[@user-tt8ec4qj5d]

does the floor have the original bucket seat mounts to fit bucket seats or are they shimmed up because it had a bench seat?

[@robertwright5487]

Don't feel bad, I was ripped off with a 68 Pontiac GTO convertable that turned out to be a Lemans. But hey, it was still a fun car. I have also seen 65 Lemans with the 389 tripower from the factory.

[@dougtodd305]

Someone had a crashed GTO, bought a funky Le Man's and made one out of two

[@5150mxVW]

nah, car was never crashed , hood is OG

[@VIKING-SON]

It will be nice to know if you can locate the hidden VIN numbers on the vehicle at some point. I'm interested to see if it reveals it's a LeMans or GTO. I owned a 65 GTO before I was drafted into the Army back in 1972. At the time I was like the 5th or 6th owner of the car. The original 389 was gone and replaced by a 400 out of a Firebird. Someone had put a tripower carb set-up on it. From what I found out the car was raced a lot on the streets of Allentown Pa. I got rid of it in 1973 I had my father sell it for me after I got to Ft. Carson Colorado. Out there I bought a 68 Nova SS with a tired 327 that I rebuilt. Then later trade even up for a tired 70 Cuba 440 six pack car that needed a ton of work. Those were the days. I hope your ride is a GTO great story and I'm looking forward to the next part of the saga 😁

[@michaelbrown3277]

They only things we know for sure are that those tags do not belong to that car....and its a pretty cool car :)

[@n1r0l]

1:28 10 ribs: Those are also for her pleasure, not just the Le Mans.

[@michaelmccann4706]

You're right about that man, though I never wore a raincoat myself, ribbed or unribbed. What can I say, I'm old (and old school).👍😁

[@Wil_Liam1]

Like Durwood said,I'd prefer a matching numbers whatever vehicle over a frankensteined non matching anything,however if I ran across this Lemans and the price was right I'd have jumped on it,and worked on getting it running,stopping,handling,driving,looking good and to hell with if it is or isn't because a person either wants a LeMans/Tempest or they just want a GTO to say they have a GTO... 🙄

[@ImTHATguy...]

Well buddy, crossing my fingers you've got an actual GTO, but either way it's still a pretty bad ass looking car I'd be happy to build up and drive. I think you're still in a good spot with it.

[@5150mxVW]

thank you , i agree ...just trying to figure out it's history

[@dja1353]

I like it regardless. I had a 67 GTO. My 400 engine looked like that (crome covers). A friend had a 66 GTO with a 389.

[@5150mxVW]

i like it as well... just knowing it was a tag job at the time of purchase would of helped the price negotiation .... i have not ID'd the engine yet but it's not OG

[@johnmilner7603]

I say the car now has a Lemans tag to hide the real identity of it being a GTO. If this car was shipped to Canada or built in Canada when new you can get the RPO codes by supplying the VIN to GM Vintage Services in Oshawa Ontario Canada for a small fee. Canada has records dating back to the 1940’s.

[@gregpiecuch3802]

Definitely a Goat body. Can't wait to see what the hidden Vin reveals. I think just the tags were switched.

[@5150mxVW]

thank you , myself as well

[@ronwatson4902]

I hope it's a Goat for your sake but if you like it,it doesn't matter. Run with it!

[@stuartstephens]

A couple things I noticed - Pontiac didn't use dual chamber master brake cylinders until 1967, so the brake cylinder in your car was swapped in; it originally would have had a single chamber type. Second, I can't say for sure about GTOs and Tempests but the hole in the floor for shifter wouldn't necessarily be a nice neat hole. I have a '61 Bonneville with a factory four speed, and the hole in the floor looked like it had been chopped out with an ax - workers on the production line would just punch a hole when it was needed. Having said that it's possible that GTOs had a more uniform hole since so many of them were equipped with a manual transmission. Finally, I wonder if there may be a VIN stamped somewhere else on the body...for instance, I've heard of some cars having it stamped on the firewall behind where the heater assembly bolts on, but again I don't know if this was the case with a GTO.

[@vintage76vipergreenBeetle]

I agree with Mustie1. Its half of a GTO.

[@billgardner9328]

Asa teenager in 60’s I remember a friend Gary had a LeMans he converted to a GTO. It was very common back then. But only his friends knew the difference. His buddy Carl converted his Falcon 6cyl to a 289 with a badge and hood locks. We were poor teenagers!

[@yepyep340]

It was not the 70's I did it in the early 80's😂🤣😂 One of my 1965 GTOs was stollen 3 times. Damn wind wing is easy access.

[@ronjones1077]

Stolen car I’ve got a 65 GTO tri power, 360hp 4 speed with 4:11 posi. Bought new here in Anchorage , Alaska. Original owner passed and his son got the car. I worked with him many years and when he had to sell I bought it. Still have the window sticker. Yellow with gold int.

[@richardmead9225]

3.90 was the popular rear end for the GTO.

[@kevinstufflebeam2753]

Unfortunately, the Lemans emblem on the quarter may bolt up the same as the GTO emblem with 3 holes. The Tempest would have multiple holes on the inside.

[@suewatson1912]

Wrong,,,The LEMANS emblem is made up of indivigual letters and has at least 2 studs on each letter.

[@pstreetgarage7304]

Great car and great story ! More to dixover I think !

[@5150mxVW]

thank you PsG

[@anderleof]

Hope the audio improves

[@5150mxVW]

Me too 🤣…I messed with it for an hour . Worst was the GoPro footage w M1 . I didn’t have my camera w / mic that day . The lights in the shop are brutal noisy so I had to use hum reduction and 50% background noise reduction on the edit . I agree , terrible

[@DaytripperXX]

so what are you going to do restore it to what the VIN numbers say it's suppose to be?

[@5150mxVW]

No