#54: In Other News ... Our Keel's Falling Off

It kind of was. And, I kind of weeped about it. First follower to catch and comment on the "torch" snafu (trust me, you'll know it when you see it) wins a shout-out in the next video. And, question of the day: WHAT BROKE? Also, many of you asked, so note the one-time donation option for our Give the Gift of Cruising campaign. Enjoy!

[@btsmanman]

Yeah, i love these maintenance videos. They are really helpful. I like that after you show the workers telling the problem, you give a clear explanation afterwards with the solution. You're doing a great job, please keep them coming!

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

Thank you! I appreciate that. We definitely learned a ton during our time at the shipyard and I'm always happy to share.

[@chuck0214]

I hope you have heard this before. If not, I REALLY want to emphasize that the dust mask you are using is probably not adequate protection for the type of work you are doing (cutting, sanding, grinding, etc.) especially on the lead keel! For working with epoxy, fiberglass, lead, and plastic, you should be using a respirator with replaceable filter cartridges like the 3M 60921. This cartridge has a layer of activated charcoal to absorb any vapors generated and a P100 (HEPA) filter to catch the particles. There are lots of good respirators and filters available. It is also important to find one that properly fits your face. Please stay healthy!

[@nathandean1687]

or a full face mask as more people are doing.

[@ZoneTelevision]

Keels falling off are no joke .. It’s the reason I prefer full keel OR center board boats for cruising. Good episode. 👍🌬⛵️

[@DownInTheIslands]

I sure hope it was the toque wrench or socket that broke and not your keel bolt. I have an encapsulated keep on my boat. The boat and keel are all one piece.

[@darbybyrdjr]

WOW, I'm weeping for you two. I so respect your "glass half full" attitude and outlook! In hind sight, are you thinking a survey from another set of eyes and skill set could of shed light on some of these issues your finding?

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+darby byrd Hey Darby. Thanks for the tears. Ha. In hind sight, no. Not at all. Particularly this keel issue as it developed over time. I don't recall seeing this weeping seam when he hauled out for the survey/sea-trial. We've owned the boat three years now. Plenty of time for issues to develop. It's just the nature of owning a boat. You pour your glass a little fuller and keep on keepin' on! Thanks for watching.

[@rwdyer2263]

Do people not take ten seconds to read comments before they post? Seriously? I don't think the girl needs anyone else telling her to wear a proper respirator to protect her beautiful "lungs" against lead, fiberglass, and whatnot! Learning lots with your videos, Annie! Thanks so much!

[@verynearlyaboutsailing8114]

I had to do the keel seam before I put my boat in the water just after I bought her. Everyone told me it was normal and no big thing - I wasn't convinced. First cruise after a long motor I moored up and there was water right over the cabin sole. I bailed it out and convinced myself that it was water creeping up the keel bolts. I didn't sleep well thinking I was sinking. Turned out to be water from a loose raw water cooling hose. Keel has been 100% OK - no worries.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Just about sailing Wow, thanks for sharing your story Just about Sailing. Prior to this, we've always had a little water in our bilge because so many things drained there (namely the anchor chain locker which was a huge contributor) so it was hard to tell if the keel bolts were contributing any as well. You'll see in the videos soon we fixed that issue as well, but tightening them back down was definitely a necessity regardless. Thanks for watching!

[@AdventuresofanoldSeadog]

Jezz, keel bolts, scary stuff. I have a steel boat so the hull and keel are all one so no keel bolts. I'll be watching to see what happens. Good luck!

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

Thanks Barry. I have definitely learned a lot about out keep since. You can say she and I have now bonded! Lol. Appreciate you following along.

[@howardwhite9773]

Hey! You got two major repairs for one pull-out! Look at the bright side. Keep on keepin' on.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Howard White Hey Howard. Funny you should mention that. You'll see in future vids, we got a few more repairs and a few upgrades. If you're going to be up on the hard, might as well milk it, right? Thanks for watching!

[@davandstudios]

Weeping Keel is actually a cool name for a boat.

[@pateallan7764]

I like your safety googles. Good idea. Now you need some leather gloves like those cool Mechanix kind. Can you tell I work in the safety field. Ha. Keep up the good work and dont get discouraged.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+pate allan Thanks Pate. Let's just say I had a hankering! Appreciate you looking out for my wee fingers and eyes! I should do it more often. Appreciate you watching!

[@EmptyNestOutdoors]

lol....Re-torched! Nice one. :) You guys are doing an awesome job!

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Empty Nest Sailing Thank you Empty Nesters! I'm definitely giving it the old college try! Glad you spotted the "torch" blunder. I'm such a goof! It's probably best no one's looking over my shoulder during the production ... : ? Better left as is! Lol.

[@robertmiller6612]

Your making me late for work. I have to do the same repair on my Catalina30. Pretty sure you you just broke the "torch" wrench or socket. Love the videos. And always blame that on auto-correct.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Robert Miller Aha! Robert, you were the first to catch it! Phillip looked at me like "really Annie?" when it flashed on the screen around 2:49. It's sad to think I'm a writer. : ( Bad Writer Annie! Bad! Totally the auto-correct's fault. Thanks for watching Robert. Sorry you were late for work. Quit and go cruise and it'll never happen again! : D

[@ccbilly6678]

Could see that coming. Hopefully it was the socket. Best of luck.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+C&CBilly Thanks Billy. I'm glad somebody did, because we sure didn't. Our faces say it all. Oh sh$% .... : (

[@08cad]

Enjoying the "down to earth" attitude you have towards the issues you encounter on the refit process! I believe the bolt head snapped off as you torqued the keel bolts?

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Leo “lakeman” Cat Leo! Hello! Ack! That's what we would NOT hope for (but that's what we thought happened). What a scary feeling huh? Cranking down on your keel bolts and BAM! I didn't realize how hard Phillip banged against the starboard settee. Thankfully ... it was not the bolt. Rchopp got it right. It was the torque wrench (which I now know is spelled torque, not torch). Can't wait for someone to call me out on that! Thanks for watching Leo!

[@Sailboatstory]

Another great video guys. I'm actually learning a lot from watching all your suffering. (I jest) Keep up the great work, and looking forward to seeing you on the water.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Sailboat Story Please, learn away! That's why I film it all. So glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for watching Sailboat Story. Definitely looking forward to meeting you as well. Where are you located now?

[@Sailboatstory]

We're 5 hours inland in the Mayberry-esque town of Toccoa, GA. No boat yet - we're shopping, making offers, and talking to potential sellers. We have, however, moved out of our house, sold all our stuff, and drastically simplified our lives in preparation for the next big step.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Sailboat Story That's great. Congrats! We're not quite there yet, either (obviously -- it wouldn't be any fun living in the shipyard - ha!) but we'll be doing the same this summer and preparing to cast off this October or November. It will be fun to share the journey together! Fair winds!

[@Sailboatstory]

That's our general plan too. We hope to get into a boat and set ourselves up to be able to jump over to the Bahamas around that same time as well. (We're looking for a Morgan Out Island 33) See you out there. ~Ben

[@rjk69]

If I was grinding lead I think I would at the very least wear a mask.

[@dtonvista]

Damn, that sucks, but when you pull a boat, you need to do a good inspection of all the things under the boat, just something us boat owners go through, really it is best to find issues no not while sailing. Not to be a nut, maybe while the boat is out you could replace the through hole too! Oh yea, check the rudder for water issues too! I cannot imagine you have not thought about this stuff too! you will always find more that you expect when you look for what should be perfect. Good luck!

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+dtonvista Thanks Dtonvista. Great ideas. And, yes, you are a nut. You're a boat owner! You must be! We're definitely going to run through an exhaustive can-only-be-done-while-hauled-out project list before we splash back. Many more projects to come. Are you having fun yet?

[@Blackford86]

Just like a Dentist just grinding away and finding more bad stuff, good job👍

[@horseshoe182]

it appears to be normal practice to support a yacht by those little stands?, how safe is that in wind? i would be very concerned that it might fall over. when torquing up old and possibly rust bolts, your not going to get a true torque reading with rusty threads and bolts. take them apart,clean and anti-cease the thread and re-torque, what you did can brake studs/threads.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

Hey Horshoe! Yes, it is standard to hoist the boats up on a jack stands (although I agree it still makes me very nervous to see our little beauty sitting so precariously on them), but it is quite steady. If a storm is expected, many shipyards have hooks cemented deep in the ground to connect the boat to. Regarding the bolts, we did clean each bolt carefully as well as the washers and nuts that went back on. Thanks for watching!

[@SailingwiththeFoxwellFamily]

O man... we really feel for you guys

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

Thanks but we'll get through. It is fun to watch others' misery though isn't it ?

[@nathandean1687]

yes till she needs another set of lungs.

[@bradkuether3561]

Keel movement and cracks happened all the time on my C&C 29, when I had her. And Niagra is a Canadian cousin so makes sense. It is the single line of keel bolts that cause it, or rather allow it to happen. No worries, grind it out, fill it in, torque the bolts. All good. One other comment, suggest a mask anytime you grind, inside or out. But y'all are adults, not trying to nanny state you. :)

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+IntermittentSailingWithKids Thanks Mr. Intermittent. Phillip said folks were going to call me out on that. I know, I know ... It's a good thing we're not going to be in the yard too much longer. Sometimes I'm a bad DIY'er! Good call on the repair. That's exactly what we'll be doing!

[@sbc388550]

It's a bit more complicated than that. Yacht designers, over the decades, in an effort to reduce wetted surface and to get a little more speed out of a hull, have gone from a keel to hull mating surface that is WIDE for keel stability, to NARROW keel to hull mating surfaces which puts much more stress on said joint. Simply imagine a yacht heeled over 15-20 degrees with a 5,000 lb. keel on it that is trying to remain vertical, in a pounding sea that joint is subjected to stains that want to snap that keel off, as opposed to a WIDE keel to hull joint that is much more stable and is much more likely to survive the worst wave conditions. In the early days, 60s to 80s, externally attached keels with their WIDE mating surfaces never had keel/joint instability problems, but newer yachts with NARROW mating surfaces have had this problem. I have seen newer yachts that when hung in travel lift slings that you could grab ahold of the bottom of the keel and rock it port and starboard, to the point of scaring you.

[@BetterthanitwasNetsailing]

Admiring your spirit and determination, folks. I always try to think "well if it was going to happen, it's better now than at sea"- but then I sit, cry and freak out anyhow!.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Better than it was (sailing Boukadoura) Ha ha. What an honest answer: "sit, cry and freak out anyway." Sometimes you can't help it. I'm glad we're doing everything we are now to be ready for all the other bad things that are going to happen at sea! Lol.

[@BetterthanitwasNetsailing]

+HaveWindWillTravel.com that's the spirit! Will send some pics if our osmosis blister farm (fresh crop all over the hull.) to cheer you guys up / give you a laugh.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

Sweet! Can't wait to see the farm. Ha! Send via email -- [e-mail]-- and we can hook up! I love a good laugh anyway. Ha!

[@BetterthanitwasNetsailing]

HaveWindWillTravel.com plus.google.com/+BetterthanitwasNetsailing/posts/CxdaPahg5ms here you go! The Osmotic Orchard!

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Better than it was (sailing Boukadoura) HOLY CRAP! Wow, thank you for sharing that. Better than it was is right. That was some serious work on the hull! What compound is on top of the fiberglass?

[@edrymes3653]

What torque were you trying to put on that bolt? That sounded like an " Ah sh*t" moment. I can imagine that you two are learning more about boat repair than you ever imagined.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Ed Rymes Up to the specs: 250. You'll be shocked to hear in the next video what torque level the bolts were at when we first cranked down on them. Thanks for watching Ed!

[@jamesrichy68]

Your keel was not falling off. A crack here is extremely common, even with very expensive boats. The lead and fiberglass hull move differently, hence a seam. It does not on its own indicate any problems, except possibly water intrusion (which you need to stop). You don't burn down the barn to get rid of a couple of rats. Check the bolts by giving them a tap with a hammer. If they seem good, just re torque and fill the seam. Boatyards will tell you you have to do this and that, easily spending vast amounts of money. No. Common practice is enlarge the seam and try to get some 3M 5200 in there. In my experience, this will often work for 10+ years. If that doesn't work, drop the keel a few inches, clean it up, put in 5200 and bolt it back together. Experiments at Pearson Yachts in the 1980s showed that 5200 only is insanely strong, and would hold a hull and deck together without bolts. Fiberglass panels glued together with 5200 will break in shear when pulled apart before the glue bond fails. Of course, the guys at the boatyard charging $100 an hour will deny all of this.

[@imonlyhalfnutsreally2770]

I know you have heard this many times. I just ran across this video and it's not new. Please get tested for lead in your body and please please please wear a proper respirator when working with or around lead. Did I say please? If not, PLEASE get checked for it as soon as possible. I am not afraid of lead. It is just that you can get so terribly sick from it. I've had two close get lead poisoning and they are so sick. They are getting treated and the treatment makes you even sicker. It affects your body's organs. Please be careful. This is a cool video that shows so much of your hard work. Live a long and healthy life and have a great time on a great boat.

[@crashkahuna]

We are all on edge of our seats till next video to see if bolt broke. I feel your pain. Fixing keel is a biggie. Just google Catalina smile or search cruisers forum for keel bolts. I hope yours works out ok.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+crashkahuna Thanks CrashKahuna. That was the first thing Brandon said: "Look you got a Catalina smile!" Followed immediately by: "I wonder if that's a Canadian smirk" (since our boat is Canadian). Ha ha. Glad you're enjoying the videos. Thanks for watching!

[@twentypdrparrott694]

Reminds me of the song "Cry Me A River"!

[@LEE-wj3sz]

What??? Fixing the keel seam is just something we do. It's time consuming but relatively safe and easy. BUT…what happened at the torque wrench? Are you just going to leave us hanging? Did it just pop off the bolt's nut or worse, did the bolt break? If the latter, that would SUCK like a (insert profanity here.)

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+LEE CUMMINGS Hey Lee. Just this go-round. I'll share in the next video. It was just the torque device but SCAAA-REEE huh? I hated hearing that popping sound every time I had to listen to the playback. Eek!

[@TvshkaHumma]

One of the bad things with boats is that they are endless money pits.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

True, but such fun ones!

[@TroyaE117]

Damn it, bolt-on keels. I have never trusted them. Give me a long keel, cast in to the GRP any day. The keel bolts are often stainless, then they get oxygen-starved, and chlorine-rich, and they corrode, often preferentially. Re-torqued, they just shear.

[@johnbower]

Don't try and fix it with filler, take the keel off, clean the surfaces and bolt it back on,

[@normanboyes4983]

Well having a good sense of humour sure in useful when you keep getting hit with issues.👍 Now I do not want set any hares running - but that keel has been moving and to do that the nuts were slack (normally studs in the keel and nuts secure inboard) - I would be wanting to draw out each stud and examine and replace if necessary. Sorry. It's OK retorquing but you do not know if there has been any damage to the stud(s).

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Norman Boyes Hey Norman. No worries. Speak your mind here. That's what it's about. I'll share soon what we did. You'll see it was CLEAR there was movement of the keel. Which kind of surprises me. Many of the things on the boat I felt were inflexible turn out to have a lot more movement than I would have expected. Probably a good thing. She's meant to adapt, move and bend herself to accommodate the journey. Shouldn't we all? Thanks for watching!

[@mortpes]

The bolts sometimes rust. Drill out bolts and install new bolts. Then work on the cosmetic outside.

[@watahyahknow]

wat happened did the tap break or just the wrenchsocket still not REALY a problem if the tap has broken you can prolly dril a new verry deep hole intoo the lead keel move the dril around so the hole is bigger at the bottom then wat it is on the top prepare a piece of stainless treaded rod in the right size rough up and put some flat spots on the end that goes in the epoxy so it will never spin once the epoxy is dry , fill the hole with epoxy and rotate the treaded rod in , get the exces epoxy off and let dry then put the nut back on and retighten , i seen it done in concrete with bolts holding palletracks , there strong enough to withstand a forklift hitting the top of the rack

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

Thankfully just the wrench broke, not the bolt, but we were scared for the worst. Ended up getting a new-and-improved wrench from Stanley under the warranty, too. So all's well that end's well!

[@sbc388550]

If you're refusing to protect your lungs by not wearing a proper mask, then please get a lead test every six months at your local hospital. Even with proper protection, which by the way means covering your head with a terry towel, our boat company would send the keels guys for a lead test every six months. newbis often think they are infalable and are too tough to bother . But remember, once you get lead in your system, it won't come out.

[@pulpopower]

My dad always said when tightening a bolt so much and the worst happens...."just turn it back half a turn....!" Funny afterwards...but not at the ¡Oh S%&T! moment.. ;-) Ps. I hope it was the torque wrench getting to its torque setting!

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

Not getting to the torque setting but busting in the process! I like your dad already! Thanks for watching OrangeZeus!

[@jimksa67]

where's your ear protection and a mask for the lead?

[@ponemark]

You see so many boats for sale just recently antifouled wonder if they might be hiding a nightmare problem like that.

[@daverunner3397]

Yall are catching hell, I need to come over to Pensacola and take yall out to dinner. Damn.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+dave runner Ha. Seriously we need it! I'm kidding. It's all part of it. We're having fun along the way!

[@rchopp]

Man I hope that was just the torque wrench letting loose and not the bolt...

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+rchopp You hope right RChopp. We busted the hell out of that torque wrench. I'll share next time but yeah ... definitely one of the more frightening moments of our refit. Phillip's face says it all: "What broke?"

[@jinksto]

Wow, scary. Thanks for not making that one a cliffhanger. :) Glad it was just the wrench.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

I like a good cliffhanger myself, but I didn't want to give you guys nightmares! ; )

[@mcriser]

Ahh, old boats. On a small craft BOAT means "Break Out Another Thousand", but it's spelled BOATT on a large one "Break Out Another Ten Thousand".

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Matt Riser Ha, so true. Or maybe, another trillion! Thanks for watching Matt!

[@rustie4242]

Hi, if it was me, I would remove the keel and replace the keel bolts (threaded pieces) and refit the keel. Then you know it's done properly.. cheers Russell

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Russell Zylstra Wooow. That's a big project Russell. Hats off to you. We opted for the "re-torch" re-torque.

[@rustie4242]

+HaveWindWillTravel.com It could be an idea to check with your insurer as over here they require keel bolts to be replaced every 15 years... cheers Russell..

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

Thanks Russell. Good idea. Appreciate you following along!

[@marquelethenstrom1103]

"They may need to be re-torched." Why do you need to burn them?

[@wornslapout]

The old crack in the keel skit ah? There has to be a better way! The old 1700's wooden boats used rocks, modern boats use lead, but how they are attached baffles me. I know some boats have poured lead while boats like yours have attached lead keels. Me thinks poured might be better? I have been thinking of a steel hull and maybe that is the way to go? I think I'm getting a headache, I'm going to lay down now. lol

[@DownInTheIslands]

+Ted Smith My boat has an encapsulated keel. It has pros and cons. One pro is that the keel can't fall off. One con is that the keel is not completely filled with led the last foot of my keel is just a deep bilge. If something were to puncture the keel in the back part. The boat would fill up with water.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Down In The Islands Great info Down in the Islands. Thank you for sharing!

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Ted Smith Welcome to the happy world of boating! That's why I do the tours. Every boat has compromises and capabilities. You just have to decide what you're willing to compromise and what you're not. Happy shopping!

[@mindyburton7537]

your grinding lead with out use of respirator not to smart number two you need to drop the keel down and reapply sealant then re bolt it up

[@davandstudios]

Fill with 5200? I dont think so. Use 5300. Just kidding. I dont know what I'm talking about.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Urban Deployment Ha. I like that you don't. That's funny. Go ahead and make it 5400!

[@Lehmann108]

"re-torqued" !!!

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

Ha! I know, I know. We decided to torch them instead! : )

[@robmitchell3633]

Dust mask? Lead and fiberglass grinding 🙄

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Rob Mitchell I know, I get flogged for it all the time. Bad shipyard worker, Annie. Bad! : (

[@robmitchell3633]

+HaveWindWillTravel.com I work with aircraft composites so it is very important to cover yo face. Especially lead sanding dust guh! Lol 🙄

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Rob Mitchell Ha. That will help me remember. "Cover yo face!" Thanks.

[@obidamnkenobi]

lol, came to say this. Also grinding off bottom point? That stuff is nasty too..

[@jwrappuhn71]

All you can do is roll with the punches, getter done!!!...LOL take care ya'll.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+jwrappuhn71 "Get 'er done!" says the Cable Guy. : D

[@shipskepr1]

I'm guess the socket,broke,that would suck big time if the keel bolt snapped,,,,,p

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+paul stratton Yes. Total suckage would be the word. That's what we thought happened though and my heart fell out of its little cage and landed on my stomach with a thud. I can't imagine what all is involved in a snapped keel bolt ... Removing the keel? I don't even want to know ... Thanks for watching Paul!

[@shipskepr1]

prob would not have to remove the ballest keel,but driving out a keel bolt can be a bit of a bastard,lol

[@philipstreechon4523]

That is completely wrong you drop the keel and reseal it that boat has a wood frame it is a POS which has rot in it thoes bolts will not get lose by themselves. That yard guy is wrong.

[@TheCorsair]

Looks like Brandon lost a digit to power tools.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

I never got the story on it but you'd never know he was missing it. He's more dexterous than me without it.

[@TheCorsair]

Or maybe he's in the yakuza!

[@passmeby9398]

Uh Oh. That can't be good. Read further that it was the tool and not the bolt. Broken my fair share and gotten funny looks at Sears many times. :) 250 lbs. huh. She's got a very tight bottom! (Sorry couldn't resist.)

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

Oh my! Glad you didn't. I hadn't even caught that joke yet and I'm the queen of dirty minds! Thanks Pass me By!

[@chuckleber3484]

Where is the N95 mask?

[@nathandean1687]

wheres your lvl 2 breather mask. to protect your lungs from all that fibre dust. you only get 1 set of lungs. i should know i used to be a welder.

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

I know, I know! I'm terrible. Many folks have told me. Hopefully I'll die young and leave a beautiful corpse and won't have to hack my lungs out later. *gulp* Bad Video Annie. Bad! Thanks for watching Nathan!

[@DonHarden]

Damn, another issue

[@HaveWindWillTravelcom]

+Don Harden I know, I know, that's just how it is. Trust me, it won't be the last on this bloody project (I say that because we were bleeding out), but it's all part of it. We definitely wanted to do everything necessary while in the yard with the professionals and their gazillion tools handy to make our boat as strong and comfortable as possible for our blue water cruising this season. Thanks for watching!

[@DonHarden]

You are so lucky that you have the time to do the work and the experts in your yard to point you in the right direction. The advice they give you is priceless. I understand that you want to get everything done and done right. Watching I bleed for you thinking "Damn, is there no end in sight". If you remember in an earlier exchange I told you that I was thinking about getting a sailboat but the biggest barrier is what in the hell could go wrong and how often do major issues pop up. You are a champ for being able to take care of everything. Keep working, we are watching and learning as well as hurting for you

[@ldwithrow08]

Young lady, you need a high quality mask when you are grinding fiberglass and lead. Not trying to be mean, just would like to see you live to be an old, white haired sailor.

[@battmann678]

does the camera person have Parkinson's disease?