5th Wheel "Frame" Fail Repair.

[@jbwilliams7058]

Grand Design has made my retirement difficult. Their guarantees are very good, but annually I miss visiting my adult childrens’ families to revisit the factory for repairs. I planned to visit my adult children annually, not biannually! I bought a Ram the same year (2022) and have yet to spend this much time at the factory / dealership for major repairs. My 1st trailer was a 2006 Outback with very few problems comparatively. This six figure Solitude is ridiculous! I purchased quality and got fool’s gold. This is my first and last Grand Design! Retirement shouldn’t be planned around service appointments at the Grand Design Service Center!

[@Powerstroke98]

Agreed! I don't know how old your Grand Design is, and I realize that different RV's have different issues, although many are the same. I say this because we have an '08 Tiffin Phaeton, have had it for four years, and have yet to have to take it to a Tiffin manufacturer. I did take it in for a side issue once in that time, but any other small issues I've been able to take care of myself with little expense. Not to say one is better than another, but sometimes buying older, will be a better buy, even without a warranty!

[@timc4041]

@@Powerstroke98 Agreed - I am not sure I will ever buy another new RV. I have friends that have become so frustrated with trying to get warranty work done they have paid to have things fixed or done it themselves. RV industry is not as regulated as the auto industry. Auto industry has to honor your warranty no matter where you bought it. Apparently the RV industry does not have to work on your RV unless you have purchased it from them. Another lesson in RVing from the school of hard knocks!

[@keithpfrang2114]

This is the most levelheaded and informative video concerning the structural issues that are currently plaguing the RV industry. Well done!

[@sheepdog401]

"Frame Flex". According to Grand Design up until recently that did not exist even though many many people had damage. I'm pretty disgusted with how long it took the company to finally admit there is a problem.

[@campergyrl8461]

I'm in the too little, too late camp. Their lack of response (until now) shows their true values.

[@dennisbeek6958]

Great video. I think the pressure Liz Amazing put on Grand Design motivated them to take a second look from a consumers point of view. I bought a new Heartland product made by Thor and experienced the Delay, Deny, Depose response. Which infuriated me, so like you I made repairs myself.

[@markvherrera]

Jared, your willingness to jump in to a situation and figure it out is amazing. I've learned and grown so much by watching channels like yours. Thanks for sharing your experiences!

[@ophirpass]

I could not agree more with the above statement! Great job Jared!!!

[@dah_ditdit_dahdah]

I've yet to see a video where anyone looks and finds that all the lags are present and secure. If Grand design can't figure out how to make a rig that doesn't really fall apart, they deserve the market response they'll get

[@Mark_Lawler]

Somehow I suspect your DIY fix will yield better results than many others will receive on their rigs. Thanks for showing the details.

[@walterrafolski5662]

Just saw a Riverstone video that JD from BTBRV and they carriage bolt the floor and walls to the frame. Really nice of the manufacturer to recognize this issue.

[@TraconWizard]

Just watched JD on BTBRV review Riverstone frame attachment. Impressed with carriage bolts from outside through frame.

[@uowebfoot]

When you compare Riverstone to this frame....well it's not even a comparison.

[@jasonlarsen3515]

I just watched the same!

[@TDub_ADV]

@@uowebfoot100%, there is no comparison. your want to see one even beefier look at a DRV frame.

[@timothyculliver1993]

They also have great customer service and support. We need to see more of this.

[@jbwilliams7058]

Me too. Again, I’m in Elkhart for scheduled repairs at the Grand Design Service Center. Because of JD’s videos, I looked at some Riverstone 5th wheels and I was impressed! I didn’t find the one that called my name, but m eyes are wide open. It’s difficult to find all the models.

[@jasonb9913]

I feel that the "missing" lag bolts is a GD issue with QC. If Lippert is building the chassis to GD spec, then they are not going to be punching extra holes not in the plan as that costs LIppert money, and GD is not not going to spec something unnecessary that adds cost at their end. So I am highly confident that all the holes were intended to be used, but QC let it slide.

[@windrider65]

You never know if that part is the same going to different manufacturers. Some may want the extra holes, others may not. From a tooling perspective it's more cost effective to build it one way for every manufacturer instead of changing it for each individual manufacturer. I'm sure that different manufacturers use the same exact frame.

[@jasonb9913]

@@windrider65 everything i have read and watched says lippert builds to the RV mfg spec. Not sure the chassis'are shared. Regardless the loose bolts in this video and others indicates a problem

[@ZonaJim]

You are 100% incorrect. Lippert has a document which specifically states how many lags to place on each frame. It does not match up with the number of holes. For example, a Solitude 310GK frame has six lag bolt holes per side. However, Lippert's documentation specifically states that four lag bolts must be used. However, now that the "stuff" has hit the fan, GDRV is electing to fill all the lag bolt holes.

[@stevenjefferys10]

Agreed. Lippert builds the frames/chassis to each RV manufacturer's specs. I have a background in Reliability Eng/Quality/Maintenance and right away I saw that this was a quality issue. Maybe they do, but it appears to me that GD does not have a good quality management system in place. The response from the CEO further made me believe this since he basically deflected and did not take ownership of the issue, i.e. using the words "flex" vice "failure" and "disinformation, misinformation".

[@Powerstroke98]

As one person had an opinion yesterday in a KZbin video, where he stated the manufacturers are building RV's for 'weekenders' not for full timers, or even those using them for a month! With issues from axles not withstanding longer trips, tire issues, and now the house part of the structure including the frame, are just not standing up. Some of course are worse than others, but the quality and quality control is abysmal at the factory, and with that, prior to this video, didn't seem to be able to handle all the problems under warranty! Building units quick, to make them pretty on the outside, just doesn't work any more, and owners are terribly angry, where they shouldn't have to be! I'm wondering, with the lots being jammed with RV's currently, with new one's being pushed out daily, how many more issues are going to take place, before the manufacturers actually build the 'quality' unit's they deserve?

[@robd6709]

I was one of the first owners to bring the "frame flex" issue to Grand Design's attention. My trailer went to the dealer first, where only 10 of the required 28 fasteners were present and loose. The wall plates were being ripped off the longitudinal frame tubes due to the walls bouncing on them. This was in January 2022. By October 2022, GD wanted my trailer back in Indiana for the "real fix". Mine was the 5th trailer to get the "fix" which has changed since then. The wall-to-frame attachment method is an industry-standard approach. Even Luxe and New Horizons use it. All GD 5th wheels are now being built on the Lippert Rhino frame. The new design addresses the poor design of the previous frames where the pin box mount was between 2" x 6" lateral tubes which caused the floor of the upper deck to flex when on the hitch. The Rhino frame uses a 6" x 6" lateral tube to which the pin box mount is welded to. You aren't going to flex this monster. IMHO, this is a silent admission of guilt on Lippert's part. 15 - 20 years ago, shorter lags were used. Lippert would drill the inside hole large enough for the head of the lag to pass thru and the lag would only be fastening the exterior wall to the outside wall of the frame tube, not thru the tube.

[@Itsa_Mea]

This is what I discovered too. But I don't think they switched ALL units to the new Rhinobox Spacesaver frame yet. My 2024 Momentum 415G does have it but I've seen other floorplans that are still using the old design. BTW, the frame breaking is nothing new. I had a 2007 Forest River Wildcat that had the exact frame breakage. It happened around 2012 so I got NO help from both Forest River or Lippert. So I took it apart and repaired it myself replacing the thin wall tubing with 3/16th 2x6 and sistered pinbox crossmembers. I added about 20' of material. When done, it was solid to this day.

[@timc4041]

Thanks for the video Jared! There are always going to be people who want a full refund for a minimal issue and those like me who are willing to fix things instead of trying to get a dealer to make them right. Looks like the last post here was 4 months ago so I guess I am a little late to the party. Our 2014 Rockwoood Ultralight (Lippert frame) 5th wheel has had a few issues with sub frame cracks around the axle area and the metal frame around one of the slides has a crack in it. We have had the torqflex axles fail. I spent years as a mechanic and welder fabricator so fortunately for me I can fix these issues myself. I fabricated a new sub frame and upgraded to Timbren silent ride springs with two 7000lb Dexter axles which has made a huge improvement however if I didn't do this myself it may have been a $20k job. We have been RVing for about 20 years and have seen our friends buy and sell motor homes and trailers. It does seem to be a coincidence that the RVs built starting in 2020 have suffered immensely from a quality standpoint. Even back when we bought our new Rockwood the warranty service was laughable compared to the auto industry. However compared to issues with post Covid trailers we have had minimal major issues. My daughter had to sue Thor to get their 2020 Omni Super C fixed because the cap kept pulling away from the body and leaking water internally. Sadly buying a new RV doesn't equate to vehicle quality or warranty service. The industry as a whole needs to go back to using thicker steel in their frames and make an effort to improve their quality.

[@dennisbeek6958]

My experience with Thor is delay, deny, depose, so when I hear someone forced them to be accountable, it made my day.

[@GLAMP_Ride_and_ThRiVe]

Great info as always, glad you did not scrap the video!!

[@rvfamilylife]

I love the work you put into re-engineering what the manufacturer built. I think there are a lot of ways to improve RV's over the ways they've been built for a while. I think the effort you put in to strengthen the front end is great and I hope to mimic this work someday with my RV. Thanks for leading the way and being a positive force on this matter.

[@ceciliapetrowsky2572]

You never cease to amaze me Jared. You just jump right in and get things done no matter how complicated. You are fearless. You sure saved a lot of time in the shop. I’m in awe. Hope you had help. I don’t understand why GD wouldn’t have put out a statement earlier just saying they know about the problem and are working on a solution.

[@brucecooley4170]

Lots of good information. I would also suggest consider using polyurethane adhesives which allow some slight flexing of components without failing. Sikkaflex 221 is an example. All rvs rattle, shake and flex an amazing amount on the road. Marine epoxy resins with various additives/ modifiers can be more cost efficient than JB weld on larger projects. West System, Total Boat and MAS make great systems of resins.

[@ImaLurkin]

I 100% support the recall. Though to help grand design out, I would suggest start with the rv models with the greatest number of complaints of the frame issues. Then using a categorized process work through the remaining models.

[@keithwoods7206]

JB Weld is always my go to chemical adhesive. Love your content Jared! ♥️🙌🏼

[@minigirl6839]

Agreed! I even carry some in my purse! I swear by it and I use it for everything. 👌

[@ChrisAndTroy]

Not for nothing but you have great diction and delivery! Very easy to watch your videos.

[@MichaelPreviti-ck7jh]

Hey Jered Being from the marine industry, I was surprised with techniques and materials used across the board in the rv industry. Although RVs don’t have to float; they take a terrible pounding on the road Wear and tear issues are to be expected On our 2016 Thor Super C on the 550 Ford Chassis I was surprised to find the forward end cap overhang was never fastened to the truck cab top. When I pulled the headliner down and disassembled for access there was not a single screw or bolt installed. This then caused the front cap side attachment to partially separate from the cabin sides. We installed 8 1/4-20 stainless bolts with aircraft nuts thru the cabin top to front cap joint. We removed the front cap to cabin side inserts, common steel No 8 sheet metal screws, tapped into the aluminum plates into which the machine screws had been driven, the replaced all 20 per side with 10/24 stainless machine screws. 2500 miles later all is well. The rig is more quiet and stiffer. I always blame management. Most of the time the workers are doing what they are told by management, but if not the team managers should be doing routine reviews of the work they are turning out. Some of us are handy, others are not. I do feel sorry for folks who buy faulty units. Some of these issues cannot be found during inspections without pulling panels, which most inspectors are reluctant to do. Enough said for now Thank you so much for your educational and unemotional videos. I’ve recommended you to several people Thanks again Mike Previti

[@markbernier8434]

I've suggested a number of times that the industry looks at marine design. RV's seem very pricey for how they are built compared to yachts.

[@oneeverest7332]

I had worked on fleet of boats, heavy equipment, helicopters and aircraft. The RV industry is definitely missing out on better products that would make them better, cheaper, lighter, more efficient on production and quicker times on production. But they won’t listen.

[@smittyd1328]

You nailed it, Jared. I hope GD is listening. Thank you for another informative video.

[@ehudgavron9086]

So first of all I've been a fan for a long long time. I"ve watched you do things I would do (LiFePo batteries, solar, etc.) I've watched some of the road hazards you've had to deal with. If I was there in person and able to help, I'd be lifting body panels and jacking up subframes, etc. Then... you said you guys were done with the RV lifestyle. I didn't take it like "My RV lifestyle buddy has left". I took it as "Hey I really enjoyed what you posted and HOW you explained WHY you did things, and you were always including me and us into your process. That is priceless. Thank you. So to me was tell the girlfriend "Those awesome people on KZbin are onto their next thing." And you're back. I love it. But... you're experienciencing some negative e stuff. I'm sorry that is happening. And YET you still keep smiling and showing off how to fix things and make them better. Sorry, Grand Design has been a ffailure. Lately the whole RV mfg industry is ridiging its laurels.

[@garyp3008]

Thank you for presenting a calm and rational approach to this issue! The entire RV industry could benefit from stepping up its game. AND the end-users need to better educate themselves before signing on the dotted line. Through education, I've learned that the majority of the RVs produced today just aren't for me at this juncture of my life.

[@mondotv4216]

The problem is if you're going to rely solely on screws for this kind of attachment in a vibration environment they need to be structural screws. Normal screws are strong in tension but quite brittle, so any lateral movement results in metal fatigue and failure (as you witnessed with the sheared off screws). Given the absurd size and weight of modern RVs it's hardly surprising that the frame flexs and puts stresses on both the shell attachments and eventually the frame itself.

[@GrandDesignRVMajorIssues]

Jared, it is not just an upper deck problem. They switched frames to a thinner/lighter frame and many of these Grand design 5th wheel RVs are damn near overweight out of the factory. Good example is the Solitude 390rk. Our friends empty Solitude 390rk was over 400lbs. empty. Our Momentum 395ms-r empty (minus 9 solar panels, 4 270ah lithium batteries (324lbs.) and about 1/4 of gas in the back sits at 17980 and we are a toy hauler. This is much bigger issue than Grand Design is disclosing. My FB site alone with 3200 members can prove all of this.

[@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS]

Well done Jared, great information and solutions bud.

[@AllAboutRVs]

Thanks Ross!

[@seanbhaney]

Hey Jared: I've been watching your videos for about a year now, and you never mention what Reflection model that you currently have nor the year of it. I do agree with everything you brought up, and we too have had a few issues that we completely think could have been QC issues with either GD or LCI. I have learned with our 2023 320MKS, though, that the dealer is about the last place anyone wants to take their coach to get fixed- I've taken ours 3 times and the fixes have certainly been half-assed. The last one a couple of months ago was a bulkhead fitting on the black tank's flush line that broke off, so they replaced the black flush line and installed a Tornado to replace it. Fine so far, but while we were on our 4700 mile trip just a week ago, the hose blew off in such a fashion that it completely blew off the entire front coroplast belly leaving chunks of missing coroplast where the screws were, and required us to drill new screw holes to get it fastened for therest of the trip. In that process, I also discovered that the dealer hadn't replaced any of the insulation in the front half of the belly, which was kinda a good thing that we didn't have to deal with putting the insulation back. Also in that process we discovered that the clear flush line hose they attached WITHOUT any type of hose clamp which caused the blowout. All of this just points to ineptitude and a non-caring dealer and I have vowed that there will only be one more visit to that dealership to have the insulation and coroplast replaced.

[@burlingtonbill4687]

Rosie and I bought a 2017 Solitude 310 GK. We put a lot of our own modifications in it. Many of those were from channels such as yours. We put the air cond. mod that you had on your site. We did all the mods on ourselves, so we didn't spend too much, but a lot of sweat equity. Then it started to fall apart. Springs went one at a time until Nate stepped in and they provided beefed up springs. Then the shackles went and by that time Nate had left the company. One by one the tires failed and I put G-rated ones on. We paid big bucks for new shackles only to have them fail and got no backing from Grand Design. Then the rear end came away from the frame and would swing free as we went down the road. Again, no help from GD. We finally got rid of that piece of junk. Now we are just past a year in our Brinkley and just love it. Burlington Bill busking on the road and here on you-tube.

[@ceciliapetrowsky2572]

Wow! That’s inexcusable that GD wouldn’t help.

[@burlingtonbill4687]

@@ceciliapetrowsky2572 We have moved on. Our Brinkley is really nice. We have had it to Alaska and spent the winter in Arizona.

[@anthonymurphy2540]

Thank you!!!! Nervous about buying my next rv which I want a fithwheel. I want to use to live in warmer climate during the winter in my area.

[@kdsailorgirl]

Great job on the fix! Troubling responses from GD however it’s great they’re extending warranty.

[@dmbrok7140]

Love your content and appreciate your willingness to share what you know with us. RV'ing is about the travel but without a useable RV, it's nothing. So grateful for you!

[@pennee365]

We had a small GD travel trailer for a couple years and at the end of last year were consider fifth wheels to begin wintering in southern TX. Because we were already hearing about this issue we steered clear of GD units and chose a Brinkley. There are rigs out there built even better but we had a budget and we’re happy with our choice. Ultimately I hope GD does everything they can to rectify this a regain their reputation. I don’t agree with comments that say RVs are all garbage. It’s the small percent that have serious issue and I believe 90% (my guess) of us are happy campers. Thank you Jared. Keep bringing us relevant content.

[@garyp3008]

While on the lot at a local Jayco dealer, the sales rep. actually stated, "All RVs are junk, you just have to figure out who builds the best junk." And I believe the term junk may not always apply to just the design and build quality of the unit itself, but also the quality/reliability of the 3rd party components that are installed in it or on it. The RV industry is rather intriguing in itself. No one would ever consider purchasing a new car or truck that needed some kind of repair (minor or major) nearly every time it was driven on the same roads on which they pull their RV, but yet we've kind of settled for the fact that this is the norm and we have to deal with it. I've heard it said that the RV industry is (3) R's - Relax, Repair, and Repeat. I too hope Grand Design (and others) can get on solid ground again. Enjoy your new Brinkley!

[@1bobbylarue]

Great unbiased video. I just don't understand the concept of the lag bolt threaded into the stick stuffed thin alum tube (super structure) to support the upper deck FRAME? I'm not an engineer, so I don't understand why the frame does not support the side walls. Or, why there is not a plated thru fastener that compresses the side wall to the upper deck frame with a torqued lock nut. Just can't see lag bolts standing up to the rigorous duty of constant side force shear movement. I suppose time / miles will tell.

[@timzimmerman543]

Lippert is the common demonstrator. I have a VanLeight with similar issues. Love your point of covering second owners. Being a second owner VanLeight and lippert hung me out to dry. My flex looks ti be fixed but on my dime. Great video!

[@bykerdogrv8071]

This was a well thought out and repairs video. The thing with the bigger toy haulers is the gusset in the corners essential on the slide. But it's still a very well-done video. It's not a very easy repair process for a novice, but slow and easy. You can do this.

[@EVoltage00]

Way to go Jared, this is probably the best, most comprehensive single video on these issues I've seen. And I've done a major deep dive into frame issues because we've had 2 5th wheels bought back by Keystone for frame failure in 3 years. It's about time GD extended the frame warranty to second owners. It should have been that way from the start, and they would have quelled this issue right away. I'm still in the camp of Too Little Too Late though, as they haven't even made the slightest mention that they have addressed the route cause of these failures. We're seeing frame failures on brand new 2024 units, so it's clear they still aren't taking this seriously. As an engineer myself, if my products were having these wide spread problems, I'd be pushing management for a full pause on production until they can come up with a permanent solution. That's clearly not happening. Instead they continue to force content creators into very restrictive NDAs to try and quiet the public outcry.

[@maxd7228]

Thanks Jared, I own a 2020 GD Solitude and haven’t experienced these issues but this is the type of information is needed to be put out there and glad GD is stepping up to make it better. It’s not easy coughing up 80-120k on these Fifth wheels to then a few years down the road have this start to fall apart. Thank you for your videos.

[@AllAboutRVs]

Thank you Great to hear! Just curious how many bolts do you have on the inside of the upper deck? I’m curious if it’s 2 or 5 on each side.

[@Timmay0659]

Hey, i just met you down at vacation village and i didn't really get the chance to say thanks for what you do. i have a 2021 grand design solitude 378mbs and i like to do pretty much all the repairs myself. most of the items that i have bought have been because of your reviews. i built a slide out tray for my westinghouse 4600 that i have a video that i was going to show you but didn't get the chance. great channel!

[@TheNovaNorm]

Thanks for the video. I agree with you on all points and am glad you didn't scrap the video. I hope my GD TT 2400BH holds together for a long time to come. I have had some trim fall off, the couch not screwed in properly, and the sliding door on the bedroom need to be rebuilt (all done myself) and hope that these are just the teething problems that come with a new RV (it's an early 2022).

[@jamessweeney3604]

Great content. It's grest to get an understanding of where components and frame come together. Taking a step back, the idea of using lag bolts on components that flex are never good. I have a Rockwood and they fixed it out of warranty, but the same problems with the lag bolts. In general, all 5th wheels should come with a shock absorbing hitch. The road transfer between truck and rig, really exasperates the issue.

[@rjohnson3760]

Thanks!

[@AllAboutRVs]

You bet! Thank you!

[@gr8705]

I AM SO GLAD we have a pre-pandemic travel trailer. It is 7 years old and holding up well so far. We now have it stored in a metal building so we hope it will last. They no longer make our exact Flagstaff 832IKBS floor plan, so we have no idea what we would replace it with. We have not found a better floor plan we like. We did redesign the living area: took out the dining table, took out the loveseat, moved the recliners to the slide outs and custom made a queen sleeper sofa along the back wall. The new floor plan works well for us!

[@peterlongton7507]

Hi Jared, Thank you so much for all the effort and information you put out to the Community! Fortunately we haven’t experienced any flex or separation to date.your channel is an “old friend” when I want to see what’s happening in the GD Reflection world. We have a 2021 303RLS and are quite happy with “Betty”Blessings to you and your family!

[@mariobrothers8348]

I have a 2020 311 bhs. Now i have to look and see how many bolts i have. Thanks for bringing this to my attention

[@tsrvadventures3219]

Thanks Jared, now I know what it looks like and how you did your repair. Ours is a 2019 Solitude S-Class and so far 25000 miles, I don't see an issue but that is not to say there isn't one on ours as well, it just hasn't shown up yet.. Its what you can't see that will bite you. A few years back before all this frame breakage started, looking at these nice new Reflection, Solitudes and Momentums on the dealer's lots, you would never know what troubles were lurking behind the walls. I'm not left or right, about in the middle, but so far as a GDRV owner, I am not happy with their response. It's too much CYA and they are now paying for it.

[@ErichWalters-x3x]

Excellent video! I like your attitude on this issue. I would a to see a standardization of all builds in a manual printed up for mechanics and see how it goes together

[@emptynesterrv3953]

Good video, Jared. I did the same repairs two months ago, just on my door side of our 2020 382wb. I think you are spot on with your observations and comments. The lags are a rather inadequate design element, but it's the RV norm. I could go on and on, but not now. Good job!

[@M379-m1s]

Great Video with lot of important information. I’m guessing you wouldn’t recommend a Gen-Y pin box replacement?

[@michelmichael8957]

Awesome video. Thank God they don't build boats.. We never see issues with boats and they take a beating just like rvs'. I also understand that you enjoy your rv, because you are very skilled and I think you said you are or was a contractor. Most of the repairs you've done, I bet most of us would not attempt such a job. Thank you for posting Enjoy your day.

[@roseambrose7971]

Jared find your videos informative and interesting. Thank you.

[@paulwinkelman]

I love seeing how my property is put together, so I know where to start when there's a problem and can fix it myself! Great video!

[@donhoyt7410]

Same problem with my 2011 Keystone Avalanche 5th wheel. Just did the same repair. Enjoy your great videos!

[@fellixx11]

Excellent video. Ultimately GD mounted the wall to frame so to me, this is on them. Really appreciated you showing how you resolved the issue with your rig.

[@LivingOurDream]

Could you please share with us what brand and type of caulking you used when putting the trim and panels back on. Thanks

[@tcgoggans]

Jared, you are an absolute class act, sir.

[@SonyaBarnesOnMove]

All the petty complaints cause the serious ones to get overlooked or ignored in the noise. Glad they are finally listening.

[@chadkoller7809]

Great job on this video. I’m glad you showed how to fix YOUR issue not everyone else’s. I thing grand design needs to tell Lippert to built a stronger frame. I believe Lippert only built to Grand Design specs

[@potvinplanpotvinplan1401]

Great video as usual. Can you tell me where you got the epoxy syringe, or epoxy dispenser used in this video ? I'm doing exactly what you are doing and can't find anything like the one in your video. Thanks in advance.

[@Bruins8851]

Thanks for another great educational video and a balanced approach.

[@blakenoble9468]

Keystone sprinter 3630BH "43ft" lippert frame. I've had it almost a year, got a new truck about 6 months ago and I noticed the bed gap on the driver side is 2 inches lower than the right and the whole camper seems slightly twisted. The front tub compartment always walks the bolts out "I beefed it up" the trim always pulls off the walls in the front cap closets. I've been told it's only caused by having 3 slides on that side of the camper. I'm more and more concerned i should pull my front appart like you did. Idk what it could be I even hooked everything up and put in on flat ground and it was sure enough 2 inches closer the bed on the driver side and had the companion hitch maxed out on the drive side with its side to side movement.

[@bobdrawbaugh4207]

This is nuts! Glad you were able to find and repair this issue. Grand Design was on our short list for a retirement RV. They are no longer on our list. But, if not Grand Design, then what. The majority of rigs we have considered use Lippert frames. Just looking at the fit and finish. If they are this sloppy with things you can see. What other things, much worse is hiding under the skins?

[@gunningamerz]

All brands will have problems, GD is no exception but they do stand behind their product and are open about it. Can't say the same for some of the others that also have these issues.

[@ceciliapetrowsky2572]

Look at Arctic Foxes by Northwood. Built like tanks. True four season. Northwood makes their own frames. We have an AF fifth wheel. Not one problem in seven years.

[@JulieDeOutdoors]

I like how you DIY things. This is one reason why I don't want a 5th wheel, I've seen a lot of them with the frame problem no matter the company. I'm not a Grand Design fan for several reasons but don't have a favorite company either. I am looking for a used travel trailer toy hauler because there will be a lot of boondocking so I need something with a onboard generator. We already have a class A but I will not drive it, can't take it to Semi truck shows so we need something we can tow and it won't bang it totally up with our classic Semi trucks towing it.

[@mjharris3523]

Great video - I'm going to use it on my Reflection 295. I am curious - Did you contact Grand Design just to you have it documented with a case number?

[@scottfirman]

I watched a video from an " RV Technician " who actually blamed RV owners for broken frames, saying they are not setting them up properly as far as the hitch. This is usually done by the dealer after purchase. I really think you probably did a better job as far as repairs than the manufacturer is concerned. I think people need to boycot RV dealers, putting pressure on the whole industry. If no one is buying these junk RV's it will hurt them where it counts, financially. Eather start making better RV's, or go out of business. It's not rocket science.

[@TDub_ADV]

Jared, the lag bolts attaching the wall is not a Lippert thing per-se. It’s an engineering decision based off the type of wall a manufacturer uses. With a laminated all like GD uses the only way to attach it and have the fasteners hidden is to use lags from the inside since the outer skin is put on before the wall it put on the RV. lots of manufacturers use this type of wall construction and as such attach them similarly to GD. Then there is the hung wall units like DRV, Riverstone and Cedar Creek where they use lag bolts because the outer skin is put on last. It’s a much better process IMHO and it’s one of the many reasons i bought a DRV over a GD or other laminated wall unit.

[@stevejohnson3557]

Hello Jared…… thanks for your information! I have a Grand Design model 303RLS 5th Wheel. What are the signs I should be looking for the issue at hand?? Thx Steve…..

[@bigoldal2436]

I'm a Retired Navy CWO3 engineering officer. I can't believe they just blow a hole in the frame and don't reinforce it with a bounding bar ! Saw a Winnebago 5th wheel a few years back and the same thing,they penetrated the frame with no reinforcement! Never would let this happen on a ship with all the movement. 😮

[@bparkinson1234]

This is unbelievable. No way would I buy a grand design. All the folks with issues and no support. Thanks

[@brown1william]

Mine is Forest River but my sidewall had issues as well. I had a repair shop do the work. Sidewall/frame still moves so not sure what to do. I wasn't there to inspect all the work as the repair shop did it. I know they replaced lag screws and installed larger screws/lag but not sure if they added extra.

[@ronthompson3525]

Well that sucks. Unfortunately it seems more and more build quality is bad. I’m hoping my 2021 it’s one of those. Enjoy your videos and the helpful tips.

[@donm722]

Thanks for the video. I only have 2 lag bolts on the inside like yours. Do you happen to know the spacing of the bolts. I have a Reflection 295 RL. I want to repair mine like you did without tearing the carpet away if possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[@thjacobi]

I would like this info as well. I emailed and commented to him from the last video and no response.

[@sgtwrench69]

My friend had 2 Fuzion 5th wheel toy haulers that had front stress fractures

[@stevenpooley393]

after taking mine apart, you can never overbuild things, always surprised by the cost cutting decisions made

[@davidwhitacre534]

The RV industry uses self drilling screws and lag bolts as they are "quick" to install. The camper/RV flexes and there are so many structural places where "bolts and locking nuts" would be a far better choice. The cab top/bunk bottom connection on my Coachman was made with self drilling screws and they backed out and allowed a leak - this is a common problem. I am currently repairing the area and using bolts/locking nuts and threadlocker!

[@brentspotswood]

Great information. We’ve had concerns about our lag bolts in the walls as well. I might need to go snooping around in the front behind that fascia as well. Nearly 5 years full time and probably 70k miles on our Keystone Montana 3813ms and it’s showing some signs of various issues. But that’s quite a bit of rattling the thing around.

[@ZonaJim]

The screws that come up from below are not designed to be structural. They are simply there to hold the wall in place during assembly such as installing the lag bolts. But they are a good indicator of excessive movement.

[@ruth50dog]

Great video! Very informative and helpful! Appreciate your analysis!

[@mglover10100]

Thanks for this. Fantastic information. My side wall is detaching exactly like yours. I pulled up the actual 5 year frame warranty on the website and under exclusions it says ‘anything attached in final assembly’ is excluded. It specifically mentions side walls. So I’m not sure they will do the repair you did under that warranty. I’m going to try but not holding my breath

[@AllAboutRVs]

Thank you. Please let me know what they say I would be very interested if they fix it or deny it and how far they take the repair if they do it.

[@livingforalivingRV]

This was great, thanks for the info on the fix, the updated warranty and your thoughts! New Sub here!

[@epiccoloradokhrisstclair7789]

I also have a Reflection 28BH… I’ve had to retighten those lag screws on the passenger side too many time already. I’m afraid that I may have the same problem. Ugh

[@chadhilker6454]

What size drill bit did you use in your 1st video to drill the pilot holes when you upgraded to 1/2 inch lags in the upper deck bedroom. My GD only has 2 lags too. Did you use zinc or stainless? Main question is pilot hole drill bit size. Thanks so much! Awesome vids and very informative.

[@dstevens7614]

I think your last rv was a KZ, if so that was what I had. It was a good design and had a thicker frame and axle to frame connections. ❤. Voltage is built with thinner frame and thus frame flex 🤔😳😖 I remember the frame thickness is 1/2 thinner and lacking and cross members are not there !!!! My Voltage without toys req much Less welding. Rv is short for “repair vehicle”. 🤨 My new one is repaired by me and the welding shop and doing much better, but is a “ RV”! Yes i carry a welder !!!!

[@ginatayl]

I heard the rear stabilizers travel too low when stowed. Have you seen a solution to this issue? Do you think it needs to be addressed?

[@cjwalstad]

As always, great informative video. What type / brand of calking / sealant did you use Aon your 5th wheel front deck repair?

[@BlakeScout]

Jared, that was a nice video that avoided emotion, unlike some other KZbinrs, and did not exaggerate the problems you have experienced with your RV. I have watched your videos for years so I am not surprised by your approach. I have owned two Grand Design RVs and I currently own a Grand Design Reflection fifth wheel. It has not been problem free, but it has been a good quality unit, Grand Design has been very good to work with and in fact fixed some things on my RV out of warranty. Overall, I am pleased with the quality of my Grand Design Reflection fifth wheel. The interesting thing is, I’ve had conversations with commenters on social media sites only to discover that many of the people yelling and screaming loudly, do not own Grand Design RVs, and in fact, do not own any RV and have never owned any RV. Yet, these people are taken a serious consumers with a voice of reason. I find that troubling when people are trying to find accurate information regarding a major purchase. I will say that I believe Grand Design made a tactical public relations error when not getting out in front of this problem as it was exploding on social media. I am three years from retirement and will absolutely consider purchasing another Grand Design fifth wheel.

[@SM-bg1mu]

Hello Jared! How did you know you had a frame flex problem? Was it pulling the rug up where the wall meets the chassis? Did you see other signs? And what year was your RV manufactured? Thanks.

[@DanCrozier-f2v]

Are there certain year(s) that the frame flex is an issue? ( post 2020?) and for specific models ( reflection vs. solitude for example)

[@stevewaas137]

Great content thank you, enjoy your channel. What length lags did you use in the bedroom when you added the extra lags?

[@kenhelmers2603]

Thanks for showing your repairs! Made sense :)

[@EarlSimpson-k4j]

Wow! Your the man, can't belive you did that yourself. You need to go to GD and start advising how to do it.

[@douglasdillon9280]

Jared, always appreciate your level headed view! I think obviously as a second owner I’m happy they included me in the extended warranty but I do feel they should recall and put in the 5 bigger lag bolts but understand that would put my 5th wheel in the shop for who knows how long (although I think it’s worth the fix). Your knowledge and expertise is to your advantage that you’re able to do this for yourself. I do not have that skill set and would definitely need a repair person or a dealership to make the repair, which I don’t think they have the bandwidth to handle that number of fixes that are out there to do. I think the best case scenario would be Grand Design, and Lippert both authorizing repair people that had that skill set to do the repairs and they pay for it would be a best case. Similar to when you have a auto manufacture recall you take it to a car dealership they do the work for free to you since they are collecting from Ford Honda whoever the manufacturer. I don’t know that that’s realistic but that’s what I’d love to see done. I greatly appreciate your explanation and you’re showing the average user like myself this is what’s happening. I would say depending on how much you use your RV and how often speeds up the deteriorate. You and your family live in yours and travel a lot and so of course it wears more so you needed to make the fixes quicker. Like you, I hope Grand Design does a better job of getting out in front of this versus being reactionary. I think that will win over customer support. We are enjoying our grand design. We would love like you pointed out the pex tubing throughout, but other than that, we are happy overall with our product and love using it to go places. I sure appreciate all that you do for the RV community! That cannot be stressed enough.

[@niveknospmoht8743]

How is a lag bolt (no matter how many) is supposed to hold on to a 1x2? that is sandwiched between 2 thin pieces of sheet metal. Still looks to me like it will still fail long term. My thought would be to bolt the wall to the frame with captured threads or something more robust

[@repentnow2946]

How are the springs on the trailer not just missing lag bolts, looks like more than one design flaw.

[@enarandyr9122]

Nice job!

[@mikehare2605]

Is the five years from build date or in service date.

[@RocHopn]

I bought a 2022 freedom express, the outdoor kitchen area, slide out sink was literally stapeled together with just a few staples and a lot of missing screws. I had to pull the kitchen and screw it all together. Also the plumbing is not the best, will fix as it breaks.they are all built the same, just paying for the name.

[@mikeventi637]

Thanks Jarod....great honest video!

[@ronlewis6766]

The problem is if someone were to buy a 2024 GD 5th wheel of the lot today, would all the lags and screws have been installed? Or are they as of a certain date doing it? As a consumer it's a tough call to buy a Grand Design. We've owned two and not sure if another one is in our future.

[@javabean215]

I can't speak about frame flex, but for Lippert's Schwintec slides,they work just fine as long as they are installed correctly and within Lippert's design specs. Thing is, they're cheaper than most options, and builders elect to use them in larger, heavier sliderooms than what they are designed for, which leads to failures and unhappy customers. My own Nexus class C has had numerous issues with one of the 3 Schwintec sliderooms because it's too large for the system. The other two sliderooms have been just fine. When the one fails again, I'll be swapping it for the Vroom system, which seems ot be engineered with durability in mind rather than low cost. And I said 'when', not 'if', because I know it's only a matter of time despite two complete "rebuilds" in the last 5 years. I just hope it doesn't crap out while I'm in the middle of the Styx. Based just on what I've seen with Schwintec, I assume (I know what that means....) that maybe builders are taking a cheap, mass produced Lippert system and "overbuilding" on it? That's just my guess. I like what Lippert is *trying* to do for the RV community, but it seems to me that some of the stuff they build is just as low cost as possible, and if you go over their design specs by even a few ounces or 1/8" or two less bolts you're likely to break it. And builders in a very competitive market do whatever it takes to offer the 'biggest and bestest for the cheapest'.