6010 Vs 7018: max penetration and arc force comparison

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for watching 😀. I don’t think the flux melt off rate makes arc force settings do much to 7018. Arc force boosts the amperage when the arc gap shortens, and it’s hard to make the arc gap shorter when the flux doesn’t melt off lol. I could have ran the 5/32-4mm 7018 at 170 amps too, which may have slightly increased the penetration. Regardless it was fun testing this out 😀

[@ls2005019227]

Very interesting test & results, thanks! Along these lines; I was recently welding on a noncritical (other than, I didn't want it to break) farm project, & using both 6011 (first pass) & 7018. For kicks, I left the arc force on the 6010 setting, for the 7018's. Hard to quantify any major difference; but seemed like they ran smoother. Thanks again!

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Thanks for the comment and no problem 😀. Yeah the arc force setting only comes into play as the arc voltage (aka how long of a arc there is) drops. With 7018 it kind of maintains a arc gap on its own due to how slow the flux melts off so higher arc force has minimal actual effect. It will make it almost impossible to stick the rod though, which is a good thing 😀. I bet 6013 would see a more drastic change (and not for the better lol.

[@dumbluck6180]

The guy who got me started on stick welding called 7018 a "drag rod" because you could drag it along the base metal, because like you said, it kind of maintains an arc gap on it's own. We used to run lots of 6011 on rusty metal because my employer didn't provide much expendables like wire wheels and grinding wheels. (Everyone brought tools from home to make work life easier!) After running 6011, my friend would cap with 7018 if we needed a prettier/smoother weld.@@makingmistakeswithgreg

[@elkvis]

While penetration is certainly the single most important characteristic of a finished weld, the 7018 will ultimately be a better quality weld, all other things being equal, due to the low hydrogen characteristics of the electrode. anything where vibration may be a factor should always use low hydrogen electrodes, when stick welding, especially if human life and safety are in play.

[@DirtRoadLanding]

Amazing tutorial/informational video. Thank You, Greg.🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

No problem, glad you enjoyed it 😀

[@philthyphil3324]

At work I run an xmt 304, arc force about 70% the 6010 digs in deep, with 7018 I don't think I could stick the rod if I wanted to, I keep the arc so tight that I can feel the Flux dragging on the base metal

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

Yep 100% right. Thats exactly what I ran into. Cramming it in doesn’t do any good when the flux doesn’t melt off fast enough to shorten the arc gap lol.

[@massa-blasta]

so are you using any arc force at all with 7018?

[@philthyphil3324]

@Banned4LIfe I don't change it, it stays at 70% for 7018

[@mkearn724]

I think 6010 will definitely win. In my limited experiences it just seems to dig deeper than any 7018

[@massa-blasta]

How about testing some 1/16" 6013 at higher than allowed amperage? I was using them to fill some holes in square tubing or something, idk. I tried messing around with them and also the arc force and they turned into some kind of spray transfer which I found useful at the time for filling a hole in thinner material or something like that ...

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

One of the odd things that I have witnessed on stick is that on thin sheet metal you can run a longer arc and still weld decent. The longer arc draws the arc into a wider arc cone, just like tig. With stick being run (typically) DCEP means the arc is coming from a even wider area than DCEN, and a wider area = less heat input per section of material. I ran a long arc gap with 1/16th rods on around 18ga and it made a weld that looked decent despite small globular balls falling onto the metal. Upon closing the arc gap it would blow holes regardless of amp settings. This is similar to how with 6010/11 if your plate is running hot long arcing it will flatten the weld and allow the metal to solidify, much like pulling a oxy fuel torch back a inch off a molten pool causes the pool to solidify. This may be what you have seen.

[@luciusirving5926]

6010 is for mild steel only and 7018 can handle dissimilar ferrous metals. Both have their function. 6010 is what I would use if mild steel is badly cut or recycled to death.

[@petar443]

Do you have some of the Australian 7016 rods left? I've read in a welding book that 7016 gives better penetration than 7018. Maybe you can make this same test and compare. The book is written by Larry Jeffus who got more than 55 years of experience. I heard 7016 is used in Japan on piping . Esab 53.70 is 7016. And Kobelco make 7016 which according to the notes is used for root welds.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

I will definitely bust some out and do a cut/etch and a couple test welds. I am pretty curious as to what the differences will be. I will post a video up soon about it 😀

[@bryanp3973]

So if the 6010 is the better penetration, why use the 7018? I mean if your doing something that needs more tensile strength then yea I understand but for simple applications seems like 6010 is the go-to!?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

For most things you could weld around a house/farm 6010 will work fine. 6010 makes rougher welds and takes more skill to run than 7018. It’s also far harder to clean the slag off 6010. If I am doing a multi pass weld I can do 3 passes fast with 7018 and clean up with a hand brush. 6010 needs a wire wheel on a grinder to clean between passes. 7018 also puts down more metal given the same size rod so that’s a plus. I have met farmers that only used 6011 for everything and it works to a certain extent.

[@bryanp3973]

@@makingmistakeswithgreg that is a very good point 🤔 I’ve noticed the more effort to cleaning the 6010 for sure! Which means when I start running 7018, everything be a BREEZE 🙌🏼😂

[@jeremys8360]

Does penetration have anything to do with welding strength? In other words, if a 6010 (60kpsi) has 20% more penetration than 7018 (more specifically, 20% more surface area on a cross section cut and etch) even considering that it is a 70kpsi rod?

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

So the tensile strength is how much force it takes to pull the weld metal apart in a specific test. This is relevant to comparing that specific test to other rods tests. When welding actual joints the strength is far more complex. To simplify this, take a single 6010 and 7018 weld on a fillet joint (only one pass on one side). If the fillet weld is stressed towards the face of the weld, any weld with more root fusion/penetration will perform far better than ones with weak penetration. In such a test 6010 will beat 7018. 6011 will beat 7014 and 6013. If that fillet weld is bent away from the face of the weld, where the weld is stretched, 7018 will beat 6010 any day of the week. I have actually demonstrated this in these videos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2XIZGmcd7KXbc0si=3CVJWq_j1R53yVLJ kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXuUmZqcqMiJm5osi=GnExw571yyfwUq7i kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4eqaWh_lLB2nZosi=C7y03SFj3QxkzT5Q The ultimate strength of a weld comes down to how it’s stressed, how much force, and how much weld exists. Given equal sized welds with equal root fusion, 7018 will beat any 60 series rods. However achieving the same level of root fusion as 6010 is near impossible, therefore there are situations where 7018 will lose. The same issue arises with 7014 vs 7018. 7014 produces low penetration and given equal weld size it performs far worse than 7018. It also has poorer performance in other categories as well. Tensile strength is just one metric. There is elongation, ductility, hardness, yield strength, etc. All of which play a role in if a weld will fail or not. From a stick welding perspective on mild steel 7018, 7016, and a few other low hydrogen rods will have the highest strength welds you can achieve with conventional rods. You can compensate for lack of penetration by increases in the weld thickness. One thing you can’t solve is being able to weld gaps, poor fit up, or terrible materials with 7018. 6010 will likely produce a stronger weld on sub par material in a single pass simply because it can take trash and make it solid. However such a weld will be limited in strength due to material more so than the weld, if that makes sense.

[@dalehess6265]

5/32 7018

[@dalehess6265]

I'm wrong a lot of the time.

[@makingmistakeswithgreg]

It was close. I am going to run a 5/32 rod at 170 and see if the results are any better 😀