$65 Rega Carbon vs. $11 AT3600L phono cartridge - The same thing?

[@HiViNywschannel]

Thank you my friend!!! I had previously mistaken the carbon as a modified AT cart which did not have the Carbon cantilever. Thanks for pointing my mistake out👋😄. Hahaha...now Rega P1 users can all replace their styli with the AT3600L replacement styli!!! Job very well done Brother! May you continue to have a joyous vinyl analogue journey with lots of friends🎶🎵🎶🎶!!! Warmest Regards, ~ ian from Singapore🇸🇬😄🌞

[@johnsweda2999]

HiViNyws channel are you going to try that test at 88 degrees Ian or am I just barking up the wrong tree!! I'm not say film it or anything, just try it and let me know. can you give me a good reason why you won't try the test if you're not. thanks!

[@MajoroTom]

cool!

[@PaulTaylor1]

Lol... That wasn't your mistake... "Night and day" was your mistake!

[@MichaelLevineHair]

I swapped the stylus for an LP Gear elliptical carbon stylus on my RP1. I think it's made an improvement.

[@rich.e]

And let's be fair to Iain, the man behind HiViNyws, as in his reviews, he consistently recommends a lower priced mid-range cartridge over some hyped models costing much much more.

[@epi2045]

Rega Carbon cost breakdown (cartridge $10, jewelry box $55).

[@twistedviewlabs]

Your wife's reaction that it's not a diamond ring? Divorce, I mean...priceless...hehe

[@wendolpablo9537]

😂😂😂

[@moniqueduchossois1958]

les deux meme sauf une a 11euro et la rega 65 euro

[@skunk12]

More like... $6 Cartridge $3 jewelry box $56 Profit

[@johnholmes912]

That entry level Rega cartridge is the biggest flaw in the rega planar 1.... it's pretty crappy

[@stargazer1359]

The magnifying box would be great for an engagement ring .....if you were on a small budget

[@VAX1970]

I'm guessing your single :)

[@stargazer1359]

@@VAX1970 Married...26 years

[@moviebod]

LOL

[@munjee2]

Or that in reverse so it looks comically small at first but when opened it looks bigger now

[@wendystarita7996]

That's right out of a 60's sitcom. Love it! Thanks.

[@richardhermans4457]

wow! I can't thank you enough for the time and energy you put into this extensive testing of both cartridges. Science WINS over marketing. You WIN the Internet today! You would think high end turntable companies like Thorens and Rega would be selling their expensive turntables with $500 carts, but I guess if a $12 cart has their name on it, people will trust what they say. The fact they are using these conical sylus cartridges and everyone thinks they sound better than the Ortofons than, there is something here to consider. Thank you, I'm taking delivery this week of my new Fluance RT81 turntable with the AT95E installed, and will pick one of these carts up to try. My present Pioneer PL200 direct drive is starting to misbehave with speed issues, and I have the Shure 97xe installed, but it's discontinued and to replace the stylus on it goes into getting a 60 month loan. Since I'm retired, fixed income, I'm trying to find a nice cart for the Fluance which will allow me to have the funds to replace the stylus economically. Thank you again for this wonderful YT video.

[@willywonka3050]

The AT3600L came free with my vintage Technics. I don't know how they were able to get this much performance into a $11 cart - this thing is a perfect fit for scratched/worn records that I'm scared to play on my $300 line contact VM cartridge. I'd say it gets 40% of the sound quality with only 5% of the price.

[@denizenofclownworld4853]

This is not some wizard technology. These are simple devices. The materials to make these things costs pennies. The tech they're based on is older than most people alive today. Why should it cost more? You likely got screwed by some snake oil marketing paying $300 for something else.

[@highpath4776]

@@denizenofclownworld4853 I would say you are paying dollars to keep Riga in business, the profit on spares pays for the development , design and support of their entire product range. One price buys rice for a day for two chinese workers, the other the pension for a US one.

[@thatdudeuhate6649]

It's amazing how good those 11 dollar cartridges are. I have that cartridge in my Sony turntable. Man with a pair of good speakers that cheap cartridge sings. I don't care what anyone says.

[@labnine3362]

I have done extensive comparisons with *much* more expensive cartridges/styluses. The 3600 & AT91 hold their weight, especially when listening through speakers rather than headphones.

[@2dfx]

VWestlife - debunking enthusiasts, audiophiles, and "hifi forurms posters" since 2007!

[@platterjockey]

Don't get ahead of yourselves! All Westlife did was compare two carts of the exact, same pedigree. And, I did hear slight differences between the two. The Rega was a bit cleaner with less sibilance. Now, if he wanted to expose these carts weaknesses, all he needs to do is compare them to the more expensive carts.

[@fedepede04]

@@platterjockey there is a big different between the 2. the price 11$ vs 65$ for the same sound

[@richardhermans4457]

@@platterjockey ok, we're waiting for your video.

[@christophmuller3511]

@@platterjockey of course you hear slight differences. My bets are on a healthy mixture of production spread and imagination.

[@platterjockey]

@@christophmuller3511 No, I really do hear differences. But, I also use better carts. I used to use those $35 Shure and Audio Technica carts in the 80s and 90s, and they sounded pretty good, but after owning experiencing carts with the line contact styli and moving-coil carts, there's no way I can go back. "Pretty good" is no longer good enough. Let's put it this way: your audio videos are for non-audiophiles. If you cannot hear differences in carts, you'll save some money. For those of us who can, this channel isn't for us. So, i'll move on.

[@tomb8430]

During the sibilance test, you can clearly see the L >> R imbalance is greater in the Rega. This is a great video.

[@richard127gm]

For those of you that need a word to describe the attitude of people that swear the Carbon is better, that word is costification.

[@cryptidproductions3160]

Really does seem like a placebo effect from seeing prices higher and included with a premium turntable when (at least in this test) it seems to slightly worse than the unmodified AT cart that they use a version of in the sub $100 AT60. Which is a great turntable if you use decent speakers and a decent receiver with it

[@j0rg9humbertosp33]

@@cryptidproductions3160 Claro que compreendo a questão do placebo, mas por brincadeira experimentei no meu P8, as mesmas células, pois ele espreme-as até à última gota, realmente, soam muito idênticas, mas a rega tem um pouquinho mais de detalhe e menos "grão electrónico", nas vozes e nas altas frequências, apesar de ser pouco perceptível, no video. Sei perfeitamente que um gira discos barato tem menos capacidade de mostrar as diferenças, assim como também sei que o P8, canta bem com células, tipo Ania pro MC, ou Apheta 3. Mas foi só um pequeno teste e sempre me soou melhor a carbon, embora talvez a diferença de preços não justifique, trocar a At, pela Rega carbon. Saudações de Portugal.

[@simonbeasley989]

Thanks for this great comparison. I'm thinking of delving into vinyl and you made me realise I don't need a stupidly expensive cartridge with the expensive stylus replacements to go with it. In fact, I'll more than likely go for a very nicely engineered turntable and a reasonably cheap cartridge as I can always upgrade later if I want.

[@alexandermikhailov2481]

Michael Fremer is cringing somewhere right now. 😂 Thank you for doing this to him. A great no BS comparison 👍

[@scottspencer4018]

Thanks for taking the time to shed on light on this! I bought the 3600L for playing old records and letting the family use. It's a fun, pleasant sounding cheap cart. I added an LP Gear Vivid Line stylus, and it's transformed it into a real contender.

[@cmkilcullen8176]

I am doing the same for my older records

[@fardali7758]

This is one of the best and easy to to understand comparisons reviews I’ve seen in a while. Well done VWestlife!

[@brugj03]

They`re exactly the same. I think any audible difference is in the tolerance of the cartridge or in the mounting process. They both work and that`s about it.

[@vwjoem]

I also bought one 3600l to replace my broken Grado G1+ and was so surprised in the sound difference. I bought 2 more. I use this on my technics 1200 mk2 and sl 3200. Thanks for this test.

[@russianboss0378]

Come for the stylus reviews, stay for the DEVO-esque 45 records. No joke, imma try to find some Slugbug vinyl.

[@TheDanno210]

RussianBoss 037 Agreed - never heard of them but holy DEVO Batman. And I do love me some DEVO. Jeremy Heiden sounds intriguing also. Nice choices, Kevin!

[@bex--]

Super old comment, but he sells the singles directly from his bandcamp: slugbug.bandcamp.com/album/stupid-rock-ep

[@jonathanwong880]

Its amazing how the AT3600L can perform for $11. I use the AT3600 on a Dual and Pioneer and it does sing so well!

[@Needletalk]

Finally someone address this on a video, i once test the Rega Carbon and the people at my local record shop recommend this over the AT-95E, somehow I prefer the Audio Technica and they doesn't agree, anyway I go with the Audio Technica and they look at me as if I don't hear well or understand audio but I think by myself and hear as well.

[@Hordes_Of_Nebulah]

I made a direct A-B comparison since I have both and the carbon was such a let down! Glad I only have it because it came on the P1 because i would never buy that over the 95e! Mine has a slightly skewed stylus and still beats the carbon.

[@cukedaddy]

you should show them this video.

[@Watcher3223]

You're the one paying for your gear and you're the one using it. If you like it, then those other guys can go screw themselves as far as you're concerned because, again, what counts with regard to your equipment is whether _you_ are satisfied with it. They can go enjoy their hi-fi however they want.

[@yorkemar]

Elliptical versus spherical stylus.No contest.

[@iscmiscm]

What is the mark-up on the Carbon?

[@NJRoadfan]

For the price of the Rega you can get a nice Audio Technica elliptical stylus equipped cartridge. How the heck are these companies passing off a conical stylus equipped cartridge as "premium"?

[@spahr001]

I tend to like conical styluses because they seem to be more consistent in sound quality between outer and inner grooves.

[@paianis]

Conical styli can be very good, see Denon DL-103(R).

[@HitsTownUSA]

@@paianis I agree, picked up an Audio Technica VM510CB and it sounds damn good. I don't knock conicals. I need a good sounding conical for my styrene 45's.

[@BavarianM]

Just bought the AT3600 for the Turntable that I made with S Shape tone arm and after it's been playing for a few hours it's sounding better and better

[@vinyl.croatia]

I got AT3600L with my turntable about a year ago and I still can't believe how good it can be for 11 dollars!

[@anthonyxuereb792]

Well thought out comparison and you have done us all a big favour. Consumers need to remember that the bottom line is what manufacturers really are concerned about.

[@rubeusvombatus]

Only a matter of time until this appears on r/vinyl...

[@Alexis_du_60]

Yeah, only a matter of seconds... *grabs pop-corn*

[@vwestlife]

It took a couple of hours, but here you go: www.reddit.com/r/vinyl/comments/9eh061/65_rega_carbon_vs_11_at3600l_phono_cartridge_the/

[@arifakyuz7673]

Eh, no backlash. It’s good so far.

[@venturarodriguezvallejo1567]

@@vwestlife Thanks for the link. Not too few should read reflections and thoughts like the ones expressed there (and taking them into account, of course). Great video.

[@HBC101TVStudios]

@@venturarodriguezvallejo1567 Actually it was me, the OP, who shared that link on Reddit :-)

[@LokTin389]

Well, as a guy who understands Chinese, the "Iron Triangle" is actually a direct translation of "AudioTec" this brand from Chinese. That is a nickname of AudioTec as the logo is like a triangular Iron~ lmao

[@Koozomec]

It sounds like a crime syndicate.

[@tallboyyyy]

You Tuber JayKay18 has a saying, Harbor Freight by any other name, it's still the same. What he means by this is many products manufactured in China for different companies are made side by side on the same assembly line and the only real difference aside from a different color plastic housing is the price and the name on the product. Internally they are exactly the same and anybody that actually pays more for the item from a more prestigious brand name is getting ripped off. This appears to be the case here and probably with every other AT clone cartridge.

[@tallboyyyy]

The point I was making is that these factories that Harbor Freight buys their products from sell to more customers than just Harbor Freight and other then the color of the housing and the brand name stamped on it, the products these factories make for other customers are identical to the ones they make for Harbor Freight. And it doesn't have to be Harbor Freight, JayKay18 bought a counter top electric ice maker from Aldi with one of Aldi's various name brands stamped on it. This machine is 100% identical to machines sold under the Igloo, Frigidaire, and Magic Chef names for a lot more money. They were all manufactured in the same factory in China on the same assembly line and only the color and brand name stamped on them are different. Internally they are all exactly the same only the Aldi one was a lot cheaper than the other name brand machines.

[@djgaryowens]

Just like Nike?

[@bryanedewaard858]

Sure, a lot of our products are sourced from other manufacturers these days, but Harbor Freight also sells a lot of junk that wouldn't fly with other brands.

[@bryanedewaard858]

I bought a trim router there that literally fell apart as I was using it. I have noticed that their stuff seems to be getting better, though.

[@DoubleMonoLR]

To be fair, products from China that look identical aren't always identical. They can be from different manufacturers, have different internals etc. Years ago, I imported a few hundred basic av switches, which were nice and solid. I later ordered identical looking switches, but they turned out to be much more cheaply made - flimsy shell, and a worse pcb. Even no-name products get copied by other manufacturers. They have high and low quality products available, it's not always easy to tell until you see them in person. Unfortunately a lot of companies that get products made/labelled for them often seem to just choose whatever's cheapest. There was no branding for me, being a small-timer. I did ask for the reverse though, to supply without individual packaging, whenever possible, to avoid waste. Products supplied to the chinese consumer market seem to generally be higher quality.

[@JohnAudioTech]

Great test! The music samples sounded good to me but the sibilance test showed clearly audible distortion by level 3 and (even a bit at level 2). Sibilance distortion is one of my biggest issues with vinyl as I have a few records where it is quite noticeable.

[@vwestlife]

Most well-mastered records don't go any higher than the equivalent of Level 3. And upgrading these cartridges with an elliptical stylus does provide a noticeable reduction in sibilance and inner groove distortion.

[@michaelshultz2540]

JohnAudioTech stick to an old Pickering cartridge for descreat quad. It has a fq response to 50,000 hz.

[@JohnAudioTech]

I had a Pickering cart and D8E 3x7 elliptical stylus. I've always run elliptical styli. No help for bad pressings I suppose.

[@DJPenguino51]

@Donald Lentz It sounds like the singers are spitting. That's how I describe sibilance. I think the most infamous record to point out sibilance would be Heart's 1985 album that contains the song "Never". I heard sibilance stick out like a sore thumb back when listening to top 40 radio and that song came on which was played from a record. Of course, the CD version didn't have that exaggerated "SSS" noise on "...one chance".

[@DJPenguino51]

@@truesoundchris That came from top 40 radio back in the mid 1980's. So I'm guessing it was their equipment... I'm guessing a Stanton cart with a spherical stylus. But I keenly remember the excessive "splatter" as the song played. I kept thinking it was my radio doing that. Anyway as CD's made their way into radio stations, that problem went away. But that record was the bane of many Heart fans due to the excessive high frequencies in the record which all but very good sytli cannot properly track. As for me, I have an elliptical stylus so I barely hear it. That record I do have but I bought it used so who knows what was used to play that record before I got a hold of it.

[@rochditidjani]

Thanks for your professionalism. I enjoyed the rigor of your tests. I still have my ERA III cartridge test record that I purchased in 1979. Your objective test clearly shows these two cartridges sound the same and are manufactured by Audio Technica.

[@pauldionne2884]

Great job comparing these cartridges with actual measurements. I like data!

[@HavocSun]

Well done. Excellent job testing, removes all doubt as to all differences or the lack there of.

[@youngcali177]

I have bought a few months ago the same $11 AT3600L by coincidence. I bought it as a spare pickup. When tried it out, I was shocked how good it is. I can confirm the same experience as in the video - that it's a SLEEPER pickup!

[@keztutiz]

VW you are amazing 🙌 I'm glad I found your channel. I'm new to LPs, ever since I was a child, I used to love when my father played LPs. Now I am buying my own gear and your reviews are very very helpful to save some money and give some clarity to someone who is new to LPs. Huge KUDOS to you! 👍

[@ssnoc]

Great job in comparison - So basically the AT is either the same cart re-branded or of lesser quality - Thank You! You do a fantastic job in all your videos very enjoyable to watch them.

[@dahoo-needledrop]

Iron triangle is the direct translation of audio technica ‘s Chinese name.铁三角

[@HBC101TVStudios]

Audio Technica is Japanese.

[@Selrisitai]

@@dahoo-needledrop Seems like it should mean "Technical Audio" to me.

[@dahoo-needledrop]

@@Selrisitai the Kanji for their name has no meaning for either audio or technical. It is just literal description of the logo, which is a triangle.

[@Selrisitai]

@@dahoo-needledrop Oh, it's all just a biiiiig coincidence, is that it?

[@kevwang0712]

@@Selrisitai It's simply because the AT3600 was shipped directly from the factory in China, so the factory basically just took the Chinese localized name for Audio Technica and word-for-word translated it into English, without bothering to find out what the actual English name is. This is quite common, actually. Also something I just found out: for some reason, Audio Technica often (but not consistently) uses Traditional Chinese characters (鐵三角) in its logo and company name, instead of the Simplified Chinese (铁三角) characters that are the standard in China.

[@wcg66]

The AT3600 is a shockingly good cartridge. I put an LP Gear elliptical stylus on mine and it competes with all of the other fancier cartridges I have. If I didn’t love messing around with new cartridges, I would have stuck with it.

[@patrickthunnus]

Thanks for revealing the truth of marketing over substance in the audiophile world. I'd guess that this isn't an isolated case.

[@josevarela6352]

Both cartridges have the same price in Spain. It’s quite to get an offer with a lower price for the Rega Carbon. Thanks for sharing!

[@pseudoty]

I am a year late to this video but all I can say is wow. I ordered one of these off of Amazon now up to $19 and put it on my ATLP60 and what an amazing difference especially in the bass. Now I have to decide if I still want to spend $500 to “upgrade” to a new turntable which was my original intent.

[@Pyridox]

Thanks for the tests. I've always likes & have used Audio-Technica cartridges in my Technics turntables years ago, they always gave you more bang for your buck.

[@Trekkie4]

Yes, thank you so much for this video VWestlife! See, this is exactly what I've been saying all along, even way back on AK ... but some folks never listen even when it's totally obvious!

[@jozefserf2024]

Hopefully videos like this will deter some who are planning such future scams.

[@subzeroarctics1299]

I don't even have a turntable, but very interesting nonetheless!

[@wilkes85]

So it's the same damn thing? haha. The AT3600L is a good cartridge for the price, but it's ridiculous to put it on such high end turntables... but I guess it shows what a good cart it really is if it can fool audiophiles! It's funny to imagine someone buying one of those high end turntables and then making fun of people who own an LP60, blissfully unaware that they have the exact same cart in them. Sure a higher end turntable will have overall better quality, but when it all comes down to it, a turntable is only as good as the cart that's in it. Even a high end cassette deck would sound like junk if the head was worn down.

[@DaleFrewaldt]

My understanding on the matter is that the REGA Carbon was always meant to be a filler cartridge, meant to work out of the box, and not seriously impact the price point REGA tables. REGA could easily partner with Ortofon or Nagaoka to equip their cartridges, but why pass the price onto the consumer, when you can't guarantee that the consumer is going to like those options? At least out of the box, a REGA can play, is comparatively better than many other out of the box turntables in its price point, and is a relatively blank slate to upgrade from.

[@olaniyi570]

The opposite is probably equally or more correct. A cartridge is only as good as the turntable it's on. I have both the RP1 and RP2. They both come with the same Rega carbon cartridge. The level of performance extracted from the Carbon is significantly higher.on the P2.

[@cooker4000]

Makes you wonder, is the turntable rrrrreally that high end after all, or just priced high end.....

[@wendystarita7996]

When Samsung bought out Zenith in about 1990, I bought the best Samsung tv. My friend paid 200 dollars more for the Zenith model. Same tv, But he wouldn't believe that. I guess more money alters your heart , your pocketbook and your mind.

[@quattro4468]

How is it fooling audiophiles? Most of the guys making these tests are audiophiles. The only reason you found out it was good was because audiophiles took the effort to test. Theres plenty of forum threads on this. Go be a normie back at facebook and stay there.

[@TheMrMarkW]

Great video! So the Rega Carbon has now been dropped in price massively in the UK on Amazon - you can currently pick up one for £27 which works out at around $35 at current exchange rate. Interestingly Audio Technica have just replaced the AT95E with a new range of AT-VM95 cartridges - where the majority of the differences are the stylus only and not the cartridge itself. I now have a brand new AT95E, the 70's Ortofon VMS (with a brand new 3E Mark II stylus in it) which my Technics SL-1900 came with, and a Pickering XV-15 with a brand new D625E stylus in it (and an old one for worn out records - I'm lucky enough that the company that bought all the remaining genuine pickering stylii when they closed is based in the same place I live and is my local hifi shop (Vickers)). Out of all three, the Pickering has by far and away the clearest sound - the AT95E is very much designed for more modern vinyl, and the VMS works best with old 70's vinyl as it drags out the detail the other two can't - but doesn't like modern vinyl at all! I should do a video comparison of all three with the same records so you can hear.

[@IOOIIIV]

🤣It's still a 3x ripoff considering the AT's 11USD cost. 😂

[@jhutt8002]

I have VMS laying around on a shelf. Got it with a turntable, and never got around getting a stylus for it. What is it's problems with modern vinyl?

[@pcallas66]

You are one of the most informative on cartridges and impedance matching (although this video doesn't talk about impedance matching). You don't have to spend a zillion dollars for something to sound good and not prematurely wear your records out. The hardest thing on a record is to have a worn out stylus playing on it, otherwise, you're good. I have a friend that had the Shure cartridge that's really popular now for audiophiles. He ended up losing a channel on it. He had trouble with some of his pristine vinyl skipping with it, too. Turntable was properly set up and set with the damping brush into consideration. Anyway, thanks again for posting.

[@pcallas66]

@Donald Lentz Shure cartridges have a unique sound to them. I think some are fantastic and some just sound not so great to me. Never heard one that sounds like an Ortofon when it gets towards the end of a side. I don't want to see anybody stop making a product, or go out of business for that matter, though. I wish them well.

[@sevenxsix2566]

Thank you for reminding me to buy that Slugbug single

[@rubusroo68]

googling slugbug opened some very strange doors

[@djsoulfilter]

I picked up an AT3600L cartridge awhile back and upgrade to the Carbon Fidelity stylus and love the sound quality!

[@VeryUsMumblings]

I actually have a 3600L on my turntable right now. I was intending to sell, so I removed the $90 SHURE m44-7 cartridge and put on an AT3600 that cost $30. I tested it and found quite a downgrade in quality especially in the low end. Watching/listening to this comparison I found very little difference (i noticed a little difference in the sibilance tests but not enough to justify the price), and I'm surprised to find so many fans of the AT3600 cartridge. Maybe instead of passing on the savings to the new owner, I should charge more. :)

[@DeadKoby]

I've fixed lots of turntables... the AT3600L is a go-to replacement cartridge due to good performance and low price. I think there was a TINY difference on the sibilance test but not much.

[@PapaSancho666]

Thank you for the level of detail and effort in this video. I love learning these little nuances that make up the vinyl collection experience.

[@HG_well]

I may be off, but I thought I noticed slight bit of high frequency distortion on the Audiotechnica cartridge. It was especially evident on the 12” lps being played towards the end of the video. Thanks for doing this test.

[@PrecipitationAndCorderoy]

Just wanted to say thank you for your informative videos. Goes to show how smoke and mirrors marketing crap can trick people into overpaying for products that in reality are much cheaper and can be easily ordered direct from China. Btw your cheap turntable video inspired me to settle for a Marantz TT5005. I have terrible OCD and all the manual adjustments of more expensive turntables were detracting from the fun of listening to music. I needed a nice entry level turntable and your information helped me to make a decision. Thanks again!

[@Scratcher1tbp]

There's also a Gemini CN-15 even sold with the AT logo stylus included. Cheaper to buy for a replacement stylus than an actual AT-3600L genuine replacement.

[@geogymathews5752]

I am using that, and happy about it..

[@reginaldlawrence412]

I put a audio technica at 3600L on BSR record player and it sounds great.

[@spahr001]

BSRs are so underrated.

[@JayH7745]

I loved the BSR turntables I had when I was younger. Wish I still had them too! Yes, very underrated! All my friends had BSR's back then too!

[@stevesstuff1450]

@Donald Lentz : Damn right! I still have an old BSR P128R(MP60) from around 1971/72, which is in pretty much perfect working order.... sounds lovely! Haven't tried an AT3600 in it yet, but it's great with a similar vintage Shure M75-6... :) Heavy-duty turntable, and built to last. :-)

[@DoubleMonoLR]

It won't fit on the BSR in my $nz25(with a 30kg box of mostly no value records) record player, the player is a radiogram from the 50s though ;) The basic mechanics of it seem pretty good as far as I can tell though. The plastic tonearm looks rather cheap, I have no idea of that is good, bad or neutral though.

[@toneyisaiah408]

Yes they were popular in the 1960s & 70s.

[@craigdolvey6224]

I have the Rega planar 1. Which I purchased 4 years ago in the UK. it came with the AT3600L as standard you didn’t get a choice. It sounds perfectly fine I wouldn’t bother with the Rega I think your tests prove you are paying for just the name. Love your videos. I bought an Ion turntable for my bedroom after your review of it best £5 I ever spent it’s great for the money👍

[@davidbowie2046]

Nothing more exciting than a new video from VWestlife :)

[@IDPhotoMan]

New subscriber! Just ordered one of these (though it's 4 years since this video came out) and the price is still only around $20, even with oem stylus. Looking forward to more of your videos

[@JoeOrber]

Yup, they're still low-cost and sound great 👍

[@dietchapstick7890]

Always thought the Carbon was a ripoff. This definitely confirms it. Would you please describe in more detail how you did the stereo separation measurements? Thanks.

[@vwestlife]

I used a test LP which plays test tones in the left and right channels. You measure the audio level difference between the driven and undriven channels for both and then average them.

[@Musicradio77Network]

BTW, the Shure test record that I don't have features the music tests, but it's great to hear samples including the one by Sergio Mendes & Brazil '66 called "Mas Que Nada" for 20 seconds and it repeated so many times which it never stops, but loops.

[@renemichelnunes]

The AT3600L shows a little more detailed sound I think, I'll stay with the AT for sure. Good catch.

[@bigdoghat3827]

Same, AT sounds more open overall in the top end of the frequency spectrum, more spacious.

[@dailyClipsHeaven]

Rega more musical i guess

[@sergiogomezphotography]

Have you done a similar test on Conical Stylus Vs. Elliptical Stylus? I like that you are thorough and not over complicate things.

[@isettech]

Always preferred an elliptical stylus over a conical. Anti skating force is set to match drag based on tracking force. Instead of modifying the turnable, use a high compliance light tracking cartridge instead as a better match for the turnable. With the return to turntables, it is interesting to see a new generation learn how to set these up properly. The High tracking force carts are generally best for DJ and scratching. For low wear, and higher compliance, I prefer light tracking of about 1.5 grams. Channel balance can be impacted by incorrect cart install with either cartridge skew in the head-shell or improper anti skate resulting in stylus offset which moves the magnets out of correct position for correct pickup by the corresponding coils in the body of the cartridge. Another source of imbalance is manufacturing tolerances in the preamp and amplifier. This is easy to spot by swapping right and left from the turnable. If the loud channel remains the same, it is preamp and amp related, not the cartridge. Conversely, if the imbalance moves with swapping channels, then yes it is pickup related. Hope this helps with your setup.

[@michaeltb1358]

Good to see the Shure Obstacle course disc. I think it came with the V15 type III. Still a good test. I found the bass drum would show any deficiency in tracking as the track really goes all over the place. I replaced itwith a Nagaoka Stilton modified by a UK company Not sure about other changes, but they emphasised the Allen screws gave a more solid mount. The V15 came in the best box ever. Heavy simulated wood and the cartridge held by screws into brass inserts.

[@20035079]

thank you for calling out audiophiles once again

[@dustinwheat4096]

I feel like the term ‘audiophile’ has been misconstrued by snobs looking to flaunt their value. I’d argue VWestlife and Techmoan, channels that aim to stay objective are true audiophiles.

[@vwestlife]

There is a big difference between an audiophile and an audiophool.

[@leukostad1592]

Yes, I agree. First to be an audiophile you need to be getting enjoyment out of music reproduction and also more or less caring for how the music is reproduced. So it’s very general, but those who are perfectionist (be it at details which do not matter to me) stand out the most.

[@venturarodriguezvallejo1567]

@@vwestlife Indeed, you're right. Unfortunately, the "phools" have predominate over the "philes", so far.

[@bryanedewaard858]

*ventura rodríguez vallejo* I don't think they do. It's just that everyone spreads around the examples they find and then claims that it represents the majority. There's also nothing wrong with expensive equipment if you're evaluating carefully.

[@johnnybgoode1950]

Such a well done video, so in-depth and informative. The Rega Carbon sounded a little more colorful to my ear, but nothing that would justify the price differential, and it may have been the sample to sample variation you might hear between identically labeled cartridges,

[@denizenofclownworld4853]

Clearly placebo since there's no reason it should sound better.

[@johnnybgoode1950]

@@denizenofclownworld4853 Even if it is the same cartridge internally, there is still sample to sample variation, and one could have been alligned better than the other.

[@denizenofclownworld4853]

@@johnnybgoode1950 Now I have to wonder if you actually watched the whole video or simply have brain damage. In testing, the Rega is OBJECTIVELY worse.

[@hifivaliant8937]

Am I the only one who heard less sibilance and cleaner clearer sound from the Rega? Yes, it was close, but I heard what I heard.

[@michaeltabor5721]

I head the Rega w/ less sibilance too, as well as the AT3600 sounded thinner in general, not as full bodied as the Rega. BTW the Rega Carbon is an AT91 w/ carbon cantilever.

[@Only1Feckitt]

For what it's worth, so did i@@michaeltabor5721

[@nocastus]

Yes, but I couldn't be sure that that wasn't just a psychoacoustic artefact of the Rega's lower output. Generally, as the sibilance test went through the level steps, the Rega sounded like the AT did at one step lower to me.

[@keithparkhill8546]

The AT cart also offers a carbon fiber cantilever and a smaller spherical stylus . JICO makes a elliptical stylus for it. It a very versatile cart.

[@MarioCavolo]

WOW! Youre' my hero man...it is so incredible, people moaning about "quality" cartridges and it turns out that really nice sounding TTs like the P1 have this low cost cartridge. LIkewise, kudso to Ian for also showing us the real deal, carts like the Nagoaka MP110 , the Mani ....proving again and again that we need to do our homework, not waste money..... Thanks again, Mario

[@stevesstuff1450]

Excellent and comprehensive review/comparison! The 'odd' thing about these cartridges, is that although AT and Rega both specify tacking at around 2 - 2.5gms, when Rega fit the Carbon to their turntables (in my collection I have an RP1 with the Carbon), it is rated at only 1.75gms - and the arm has a 'stopper ring' that prevents the cartridge from tracking at higher weights, and it sounds terrific! And then you have the P-Mount (T4P) versions of the same cartridge with the same plastic/carbon fibre cantilever assembly that are preset to track at around 1.25 - 1.5gms.... and sound great too! It seems to be a pretty versatile stylus assembly, and one that can happily track at a wide range! The Carbon sounds great in my RP1 as it's mounted to a very good quality tonearm, but then, when I tried it in my AT-LP120 USB, it sounded great too, tracking at around 2gms! It's back in my Rega now, and will stay there, but I have a separate AT-3600 that I can use in my LP120 if I want to.. :-)

[@Eywadude]

This is an excellent test. A highly detailed review with well-executed and very thorough measured testing criteria. In the listening tests, I found both cartridges to be relatively similar overall, but there were several audible differences that I noticed. I actually preferred the sound of the much cheaper Audio-Technica AT3600L over the more expensive Rega Carbon. In particular, I found the AT3600L cartridge was less sibilant in the sibilance test and I also found it had slightly more forceful and taught bass with better immediacy, and articulation. Interestingly, I found the AT3600L to more present, yet simultaneously not quite as grating in the higher frequencies as the Carbon. I also found the AT3600L to be more open and airy than the Carbon as well. I could hear more "air" around instruments and voices, as well as a better sense of space and decay with effects like reverb. Additionally I also heard longer instrumental decay in the AT3600L, compared to the Carbon. The AT3600L seemed to have a better left to right channel balance as well. I found the Carbon to be ever so slightly more tilted in its output balance toward the left channel. All of these differences we not absolutely black and white, but they were certainly noticeable. Again, this was an excellent test and you should be proud of not only your measured testing criteria, but also the fact that you are helping to save money for people who may be looking for a decent quality and good sounding entry level cartridge at an insanely low price of $12.99 on eBay, as of today (New Year's day, 2019). Well done, sir! 👏🏻

[@PearComputingDevices]

Starship Sara.. oh wow. Beautiful man! But yeah that carbon brand is nice but I've never seen much of a difference, but I am sure someone will point out that the AudioTechnica isn't high end enough of something. But I love the sound I get from using the brand. I wouldn't call myself an audiophile, but I am highly picky enough to tell the difference between say a sapphire and a diamond at least. Anyway fantastic job. Good musical choice too!

[@somecoder3054]

I'm a simple man. I see a VWestlife video I press click

[@SexycuteStudios]

c l i c k

[@utub1473]

*press click*

[@somecoder3054]

@@utub1473 mouse go click

[@EddieJazzFan]

Gotta love it when a new VWestlife video comes out! Thanks. BTW I would bet that the number of views of this video = the number of Audio-Technica AT3600L cartridges sold on ebay.

[@GuyManley]

Now THIS is the vinyl nerd content that I needed!

[@ReasonablySane]

Your video must have gone viral within the industry because in only a few short months, the cheapest I can find the AT is $25 and Amazon doesn't have it. In fact, Amazon charges $30 for just the replacement needle.

[@vwestlife]

Look on eBay: www.ebay.com/itm/113156909807

[@ct1660]

Have you swapped the stylus between the two carts?

[@davek12]

I have a "Red Ed" cartridge that I use when I consider an old record too risky to put my Shure stylus in. It's sold under several brands, most are over 5x more than ordering it cheaply. It sounds just fine. I also have an AT-92 that I used for that backup, but I find the treble a bit brittle on that one to my ears. It looks like your findings showed that two AT3600Ls that took remarkably different paths getting to you (so certainly weren't adjacent on the production line) were very closely matched. Hats off to A-T on that one.

[@fabriziovigni]

Where can you buy a Red Ed these days?

[@Hordes_Of_Nebulah]

I've got a planar 1 and the first thing I did was ditch the carbon. Rega makes great turntables and more specifically amazing tonearms but average carts and preamps at best. I'll never regret the cash I dropped on the P1 because it sounds better than my other 4 cheaper turntables (still use 2 of them) but I don't like the carbon and would never buy it on its own. I tested it on my At-lp120 and compared it to the cheaper AT-95e and it didn't hold up. I may be an audiophile because I want great sound but at least I'm not audiofooled by marketing and so called "reviews."

[@johnhpalmer6098]

Good video VWestlife. I saw that video from Ian and I knew the Rega would beat the other two right from the start, and I can tell you why. it's the table and arm combo, plain and simple. It's clearly the better made/designed table over the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon and as you saw, the carbon came in last of the three and despite being fitted with a better cartridge. Any good table/arm will extract much more from budget cartridges than a lesser table will. The old adage is lesser tables need all the help they can get so need a better cart to sound its best, whereby a better table/arm will sound good with a budget cart, and only get better as you move up the cart line. I've experienced this with my budget Kenwood from the mid 80's and it currently sports the Grado Prestige Green1 and sound the best it ever has, and before that, it was the M97xE, the Grado is actually a better cart overall even though both sold for $95. Plus, a GOOD phono stage helps too, along with decent to good electronics and speakers to bring out all that is being dug up by the cart from the grooves to your ears.

[@nemru1670]

I have "OEM" AT-CN-5625AL (similar to 3600, I guess). I play it with "LP Gear upgrade 3600 stylus" now and it sounds very good (good tracking too). So, you can upgrade $11 AT-cart with elliptical stylus for $30 (or even nude line stylus for $80) and you'll have a very good cart for reasonable price.

[@dannystewart9482]

Thank you, I have an AT3600L in my "spares" box, and now, thanks to you, I have another on the way.

[@redrobbosworkshop]

Clearly both are simply the pretty poor AT3600. The term 'carbon' is used to woo audiophiles when in fact these models use very basic bargain basement plastic cantilevers. The cheapest AT worth buying IMO is the AT95E which sounds adequate for casual use - and still cheaper than the Carbon.

[@vwestlife]

Or you can upgrade the AT3600 with an elliptical stylus and then it'll sound just as good as or even better than an AT95E.

[@Si1983h]

The Carbon is £26 here, cheaper than the AT95e here and same price as the AT3600L. It comes pre fitted to the RP1, P1 and P2 turntables and a lot of people are happy with it. I took it straight off my RP1 and fitted an Elys2 which is notably better but costs £125... I dropped lucky and got it for £60.

[@wymotome]

It'd be interesting to have a shootout of the "inexpensive" AT cartridges, such as the AT3600, AT95 and the AT91. I have the AT95 on one of my TT's and find it extremely good for the price. I might have to give the AT3600 a try, though I do wonder how it'd be better than the AT95.

[@Si1983h]

wymotome the 95e is a bit of a budget gem and has been for 30 years or so but it along with most of ATs mm designs are due to be replaced a whole range of new “AT95” cartridges which share a common body but offer a range of styli from a conical model at about £21, all the way up to a Shibata model at about £180!

[@AeroModule]

It should sound identical to the AT95E with an identical stylus, because electrically, they're the same cart.

[@bigwaawaa6444]

I remember reading somewhere that the rega carbon was basically just the audio-technica at91 which is better version of the at3600l.

[@JoeOrber]

I'm a little late to this review, but it's still valid since both cartridges are still available and the price difference between them is still a lot here in the U.S. They have always looked the same to me, and thanks to your thorough review I can now conclude they are the same without having to spend money on a Rega Carbon cartridge. I have a 3600L and I really like how it sounds, and I find it especially good with old records that have seen better days. Great job at having a stable, controlled test environment, and showing the technical results instead of only a sound test like most people do. Keep up the good work, greetings from Dallas, TX 😎

[@igsdharma]

What a nice and accurate review! Thanks for the Blue Wicked, too!

[@PAJAMALAND]

Got an AT3600L for £27.50 with a matching silver headshell and diamond stylus (Reason I got it with a headshell is because I'm lazy). Sounds amazing!

[@PAJAMALAND]

It's honestly funny that audiophiles were praising an $11 cartridge in disguise. You seem to have a bit of hate on r/vinyl for defending cheap products whilst pointing out their hypocrisy. Keep on trucking!

[@soothsayer2406]

Lol I love, in your intro, how you deceptively avoided saying that the Rega carbon was made in China, but with great flourish announced that the. Audio Technica was.... Lol good one

[@deanwhite4190]

My Rega Carbon came with a small paper than said the Rega Carbon made in the

[@MacXpert74]

Interesting. The AT3600 seemed to perform better all round. Particularly the channel unbalance on the Rega version was noticeable with headphones.

[@bobroth1951]

Great video sir. I have the AT PL120 which I bought in 2009 and have played thousands of records on. In this video I like the AT3600L better. It does not sound as tinny. I bought this model because it can play 78 rpm records. There is one black mark though-the reverse switch. I accidentally hit the reverse switch a few times(like maybe 4 or 5 times) and it immediately killed my record needles. Putting a reverse switch where they put it is one of the dumbest ideas ever for a record player. So be careful.

[@twocvbloke]

And that is why I call them "Audiophools", because they're fools for falling for such things... :P

[@stevef6392]

And then I realized that's why they call it a clock radio. Cause it's got both! - K E L S O

[@carmenandthedevil2804]

yeah and you would know Mr expert.

[@alf1943]

Hi there, you don't hear any difference because both pickups are identical! The Rega is actually an AT 3600L, only the front says Rega Carbon! Greetings from Germany Alf

[@Tangobaldy]

Lol Al! I do is play a record and if it sounds ok I'm happy. I can't believe people!e actual!y care this much considering all our ears hear differently and rooms are all different.

[@TechMaxWare]

Pretty much on the ball. Records to me anyway are more a fun way of listening to music. If I really wanted the best quality with what I listen too, I'd more then likely go with a digital format, and I mean CD, not a streaming service.

[@Si1983h]

I’m somewhere between the two, I don’t pay too much attention to specifications I just listen and I buy what sounds good to me. I actually currently have a Rega P5 with the Neo power supply and Ortofon 2M Black cartridge in my main system and a Rega RP1 with Rega Elys2 cartridge in my second system. Both sound great with minimal noticeable distortion but the P5 digs more detail and sounds more three dimensional, like you can reach out and touch the instruments.

[@lincoln3x7]

When its time to replace your cartridge, you can thank vwestlife for saving you $50 bucks... thats the point.

[@Si1983h]

Lincoln Whisler in all honesty, I’d go for something all round better. The Carbon and AT 3600 are okay for under £30... but that’s it. Rega’s own Bias and Elys are much better, as are Ortofon’s 2M range or the Nagaoka range.

[@lincoln3x7]

Thats not the point of this comparison. Its specifically these 2. And for $11 bucks on an affordable table, why not.

[@limomangeno]

CRAZY ,I had bought a AR turntable with a Shure ME91 cart back in 1973.At Crazy Eddie's for $97 bucks.People still go nuts for this TT .I sold it only a couple of months later for $100. I hated having to place the needle on the plate and then removing it .Went you had a few it gets very difficult, lol.I bought a Technics SL1300 fully automatic with a Shure 100 cart.for $400 .It played Amazing .I still own it.But come on That was the top of the line cart then ,I see carts now for $10,000 OMG Really.Buy what you like .Its a hobby.But open your eyes people.You Tube is the best thing to happen to all of us.But I'm sure there are many manufacturers who hate it ,when they see stuff like this.Nice going my man,keep up the GREAT videos.

[@jedw]

Good old Audio Technica, I'm a total convert to them. I switched from an Ortofon cartridge to AT and will not be going back! then I also switched from Sony headphones to AT.. won't be going back there either. Love the fact you've got a vinyl 45 of Slugbug / pdmillar here on youtube!

[@Livewire91]

Aye. I have the ortofon 2m red and i started missing my at 95e again 😁

[@catsbyondrepair]

Sony headphones are the best there is.

[@sergiozl10]

YUKI JINJUJI good joke.

[@Watcher3223]

@Donald Lentz Koss is still around and they can make a respectable set of cans.

[@Watcher3223]

@@sergiozl10 Well, it depends on what particular Sony headphones we're talking about. if it's their consumer stuff that's supposed to compete against the likes of Beats, then yeah. They're a joke. But their tried and true stuff used in studios tend to be very good, such as their MDR-7506 and MDR-7509. Does that mean that Sony makes the best? Certainly not. But, their circumaural studio headphones tend to be a great value and are made well. That said, there are some very good headphones from the competition, such as the Fostex T40RP and T50RP.

[@Musicradio77Network]

I have the same phono cartridge that was used for modern turntables, it fits well with 1970's BSR record changers that has a magnetic cartridge, not the ceramic one. Fits with all vintage turntables like BSR, Technics, Panasonic, Sony, Garrard, etc.

[@Musicradio77Network]

If I can take care of my stylus myself. If the stylus breaks or worn out, I can replace with a better stylus where I can get it cheap online and at FYE for the Audio Technica cartridge.

[@JPilot2]

G'day, VWestlife! Wow! Thumbs up! Another fabulous video! Thank you very much for taking a closer look, at "$65 Rega Carbon vs. $11 AT3600L phono cartridge!!" Nice job! Cheers! 😊✌🏼💿❤️

[@ekummel]

So, my question is, why do such expensive turntables come with such crappy cartridges? Back in the day, we all clammored over the Shure V15 series cartridges. I remember when the V15 Type IV came out, it was miles above any other cartridge and needle available. Then several years later, the V15 Type V-MR. The consensus was, how can it get any better? I personally have the Type IV and Type V and can vouch that these cartridges and needles surpass anything I've ever tried to use.

[@xenigron6237]

Sara from Starship ..a MASTERPIECE!!!

[@LordSandwichII]

Thanks to you I now have "Mas que Nada" stuck in my head...

[@House_Of_Cards_]

Now you can have some extra cash for that set of fancy RCA cables that cost 1000 dollars each made of pure unobtainium.

[@alexmonteiropraca6585]

I love the plastic box, but will always buy the AT 3600l, which has an amazing sound!!