$7 Billion Disaster - Why Target Failed in Canada

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[@PolyMatter]

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[@fidaananver]

When?

[@Minty_Aqua]

Sellout. Instead of writing something personal in the comments, you just advertise in order to make a quick buck. You must be a Jew.

[@boas_]

What happened to the Nebula curiousity stream bundle deal?

[@hardware_geek8136]

Watched it yesterday love it!

[@LuziFearon]

Nebula only accepts Credit Cards :(

[@LittleLordFancyLad]

Canadian here. Another factor (for me anyway) was that Target Canada wasn't selling Target USA level merchandise. I was excited when Target moved north of the border because I liked a lot of Target brand merchandise and the stores seemed slightly more upmarket than Walmart. Target Canada however was full of Dollar Store/Army&Navy type junk, but at higher prices. It was pointless to shop there.

[@themonsterunderyourbed9408]

100%

[@stanbinary]

Yeah it acted as Zellers and Walmart in one

[@genybr]

@@stanbinary new brand, old managers. HR: hey, they have 20 years of expirience! Clients: But those are who bankrupt your competitor a year before! HR: hissssss

[@RacerX888]

Absolutely!, they sold junk at much higher prices than Walmart. Waste of time shopping there.

[@My_Old_YT_Account]

@@stanbinary Nah, it didn't have Zellers' prices

[@charanth182]

What upset me about Target as a Canadian is despite seeing all the obvious signs that Target botched launch and wasn't a real Target experience. The corporate statement was "Canada wasn't ready for Target"

[@manictiger]

Maybe that's why they made so many bad decisions: so full of themselves, they didn't leave any room in their heads for intelligence.

[@krankarvolund7771]

Compagnies can't admit they failed, ever. It upsets the actionnaries and they'll give you less money as a consequence. So you don't say "we failed big time with the canadian market", you say "oops, Canada is not for us" ^^

[@stellviahohenheim]

lol You make it sound like it's the whole country's fault that a big corporation failed to run. How pathetic

[@PrograError]

@@krankarvolund7771 sounds like the Eufy's latest Corpo statement on the "Spying" cloud upload. LTT reference: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eGLHfqRqd9eta9k

[@kingszeno]

"Hey, hey, everyone, as the head, it's not my fault, maybe it's the Canadians, maybe someone else, but definitely not my fault, ok? Just wanted to make that clear."

[@Tykoon22]

My girlfriend worked at a Canadian Target, she was able to be on the phone with me for more than half her shift because of how empty the store was, in terms of both customers and inventory… She would finish all of her actual work in the first hour or two, then just wander around the deserted store like it was a ghost town, with me on the other end of the call, telling me about how much work there wasn’t. 🎯

[@TheGhjgjgjgjgjg]

Those jobs make you want to off yourself. The sheer boredom of being stuck in a building with nothing to do but pretend to look busy is mental hell

[@datacipher]

Haha yes i went to a new huge target a few times… every time it was very near empty. Seemed like less than ten people the entire time. I’d wander around seeing nobody… I liked it! Lol. On the upper level I wouldn’t even see staff!

[@peteranon8455]

@@datacipher I worked a job that had waves of work, slow and fast times, and you can really enjoy the slow times. I couldn't imagine working a job that was all slow times, as more than 3 hours of slow times is no longer the break I need.

[@stylishboy004]

sad...

[@oooh19]

@@TheGhjgjgjgjgjgthe bosses expect you to find tasks to do like cleaning 🧽

[@ShadowMk3]

Canadian in Quebec here - Here Target seemed to be completely uninterested in appealing to us. For every Target there was a Walmart almost just across the corner, so not only did they have nothing, they offered nothing that would appeal to the local population in terms of goods, services or even looks. Stores looked like the lights were dimmed 24/7 like some back alley shop

[@pixazelz]

True from Québec too and There wasn't anything really interesting There .... And wasn't spécialised enough ... The merch was random and costed more than anything you could find in a Walmart ... Didn't like to shop There at all

[@jean-francoisaubry]

@@pixazelz Pas vargeux comme magasin...c'est un fait

[@smileycindy]

Canadian from Quebec as well - quickly went from being elated to hear Target was coming to open here to being crushed to see it crash and burn within what, a year at most? I believe I only had time to shop there once before it closed down.

[@Itried20takennames]

Target seemed to have used the “Game of Thrones finale” strategy for Canada, which is “take everything that made us successful to begin with, and now do the opposite.” Target gained popularity in the US based on being a bit more expensive, but better quality and better environment than the ultra-cheap Walmart junk. Then in Canada it decided to be “same as Walmart, but pricier.”….and then blame that failing on Canadians not being “ready” for them. It is now doing the same in the US (more and more just a Walmart, with a bit higher prices) and isn’t as popular.

[@t5ruxlee210]

Target US is patronized by many serious Canadian shoppers so they knew the "real thing" and what opened in Canada was not even close. In the beginning there were some quality Canadian brands sold but they went quickly and never came back. The grocery section was run by a Canadian chain which probably expected one stop shopping convenience to mitigate their higher prices. The main exercise seemed to involve cashiers constantly pushing their credit card.

[@whiskizyo2067]

dunno but we have targets here in australia too, so not sure what the go is with OP saying they're only in america..

[@manitobamodeler24]

@@whiskizyo2067 Target Aus is a completely different brand and isn’t affiliated with Target (USA)

[@whiskizyo2067]

​@@manitobamodeler24 exact same company name and logo, how's that possible especially to not infringe on one or the others trademark etc?

[@cherryjuice9946]

You just brought up a point near and dear to my heart. I was at JC Penny's a few years ago, and noticed the check out line was going slow. Real slow. The cashiers were under pressure from management to get people to apply for their credit card. After about 30 minutes of watching people try to fill out the form while blocking every other person behind them, I decided to put the clothing down that I bought and simply walk out. As I did so, I noticed the rack I put it on had lots and lots of other peoples discarded check out items. Stupid management at JC Penny's decided there was more money in offering credit to poor people, and it wasn't necessary to actually sell anything.

[@PhysicsGamer]

@@whiskizyo2067 A ridiculously complicated corporate history that's more or less unique at that scale.

[@dizzylizzie]

Target was so horribly overpriced on the products they did have on the shelves, even at liquidation they were asking too much. Pricing at Zellers was comparable to Walmart, so unsurprising the demographic that shopped at Zellers didn't want to shop at Target.

[@MarloSoBalJr]

Hell, even Walmart shoppers (myself included) don't wanna shop at Target cos of the prices. It's mainly for premium electronic products that I'd go to Target. Anything else 👎🏾

[@buckyhermit]

My FB memories reminded me yesterday that the Target liquidation sale was around this time in 2015. Items were 5-10% off. Target couldn't even go bankrupt properly.

[@patricklloyd1797]

Zellers was typically cheaper than Walmart, and they had amazing deals on food in their food courts a la Costco. I know people who went to Zellers just to buy their rotisserie chickens as they were 1/2 the price of places like Sobeys

[@buckyhermit]

@@patricklloyd1797 What does that have to do with liquidation?

[@pauleohl]

@@MarloSoBalJr Exactly. Target and Walmart are equidistant from me, but the only item that Target has at a lower price is imitation vanilla extract, Everything else that I comparison shopped was higher.

[@brendondavid7349]

As an Australian who has shopped in Target many times my whole life, I am shocked to know that Target only exists in the US. Now I wonder what I’ve been shopping at

[@u686st7]

There's no connection to the US Target. An Australian company licenses the name.

[@marionicolasmartin]

that is a different target and it has nothing to do with the american one

[@cmacca9109]

Yep, same situation as the Aussie Kmart - it’s just licensed the name. Not the same business.

[@luiscardozo0000]

@@cmacca9109 the name is registered it cant be copied

[@luiscardozo0000]

@@u686st7 you cant copy the name of another regitered company , how is that?

[@kylepearce-obrien1021]

I remember standing outside the local Canadian Target on Black Friday, waiting for the doors to open at 7:00 AM. At 6:45 AM, the manager came out and asked who was there for the door crasher TV promo. Everyone raised their hands. The poor man had to tell us he only had two in stock. Not two pallets, two TVs. Target closed 4 months later.

[@ferociousgumby]

Oops!😁

[@TheGhjgjgjgjgjg]

why tf woukd they have a black friday "door crasher" sale on a item that they have two of? Wth is that, no wonder they failed lol

[@wfcoaker1398]

I'm more concerned about you. Waiting in front of a shop at 7 AM? Is everything ok at home?

[@JatPhenshllem]

@@wfcoaker1398 I'd do more to save on a few bucks

[@andreethier816]

As other Canadians have said, part of the issue was also the quality. The products sold by Target in Canada were comparable to dollar stores goods for the most part, and a lot of the clothing was just really poor quality

[@jaadotech]

they possibly had other issues too, but all of those issues, even combined wouldn't not have killed the company. The ERP planning (or rather bad planning) cause the death of Target Canada

[@deepthroatthemagnificent]

yeah I went to one when they opened, knew right away it was not going to last...

[@ronnieturner6820]

We all have problems tho? I can’t masticate with my normal hand now since I jus broke the thing in a clifting accident so I have to use my other one. It’s kinda like a stranger doin it when I masticate now I like to find positive in it more then a negatives

[@LaLiTi]

@@ronnieturner6820 The hell did you say

[@mmmarion56]

@@LaLiTi chewing with one’s non-dominant hand? hard to swallow.

[@Crabzula]

I didn't know Canada is overseas from the USA, thanks for keeping me informed PolyMatter!

[@colinfew6570]

Maybe the great lakes are just little, fresh water, inland seas.

[@G5rry]

@@colinfew6570 Except there is far more of the country to the west of those lakes. There was a Target about 1Km from my home in Winnipeg and the closest large body of water is to the north of us.

[@tommymclaughlin-artist]

Abroad, perhaps, but certainly not overseas.

[@LiliWhyte]

Ya, I caught that too.

[@cney2125]

Was looking for the comment. I wanted to ask what sea was Canada over?

[@sunderjirahim]

Canadian here from Ottawa, Ontario. I remember the huge fanfare when Target opened and subsequently leaving a few years later. The stores had empty shelves and prices that were not what we were expecting when they opened. What a huge embarrassment for the company on how not to expand into another country. It was an unmitigated disaster.

[@mercury43]

Omg I’m also from ottawa! and 100% agree

[@FrankBullitt390]

The store I always went to at square one (Mississauga) was awesome, perhaps it was one of the only ones they were able to properly stock with goods.

[@denpadolt9242]

My favourite part of the entire Target debacle is that despite Zellers everywhere being converted into Targets, a very small number of remaining Zellers stores STILL managed to outlast all 133 Targets for a short while.

[@GolfFanaticEstR]

Zellers is now back as a small section in the Bay and also online.

[@ChrisD12468]

Canadian here. One thing missed was how target decided to fire all the previous Zelelrs employee's and train everyone new. I knew a woman who worked at Zellars for 15 years and she was let go. If they had retained the staff at these locations, I would imagine there would have been less mistakes with the ERP, and many other rushed problems.

[@adonissherlock]

Honestly. I only have a year of retail experience and I could already think of solutions to the problems presented in this video. It's absurd that they would just get rid of that many valuable experienced staff members

[@ninjaydes]

To buy the employees, the terms of the contract would need to be different. And even if they rehired the Zellers employees, there would be months when the workers would have nothing to do (except undergoing Target training). Nothing really stopped those employees from reapplying to jobs at those locations.

[@darthdaddy6983]

Lol they let go of all their experienced man power ? What a rookie mistake

[@LeblondMat]

Just to be clear : HBC sell Zellers leases and closed their stores. It wasn't Target responsability to hire Zellers employees. Yes it was kinda stupid but Target bought the container not the content. Wal-Mart in 1993 bought Woolco/Woolworth. They bought the whole company so they keep the employees, stores, marchandises...

[@helloitsme4139]

@@darthdaddy6983I was a store manager from Walmart got poached to work Manage a target my store kept most of the old zellers employees. Some of those older lady’s were making close to $25/hr

[@Otzkar]

As a European I was really surprised learning that most Walmart's exist outside the US

[@LushOffiziell]

Check out how they failed in Germany

[@usedcolouringbook8798]

Smallest is still in the USA

[@matt6223]

Why were you surprised?

[@ResandOuies]

@@matt6223 they are not in Europe. So seems like just an American thing

[@Jannik77220]

@@LushOffiziell Walmart: Lets expand to Germany Arbeitsschutzgesetz: Allow me to introduce myself

[@Shab-z]

As a process engineer who has worked through 2 separate SAP cutovers at 2 companies, I have to admit, I died laughing and understand exactly why the whole venture failed.

[@msamour]

There is way more to the story than the SAP fiasco. There was a lot of arrogance on the part of the CEO. Every interview this guy did was drenched in spite against Canadians. That bastard was one of the biggest liability to the company. He simply couldn't back his big American talk with any substance.

[@carrie_the_recruiter]

I was part of an SAP implementation at my company, and I can tell you it was 3 years ago and it was still a disaster. I also laughed when they mentioned SAP.

[@andrewlong71]

SAP is disaster. I haven’t worked with it (as a vendor forced to comply) for 6 years. I still get system notifications. I can’t make them stop!

[@luiscardozo0000]

@@andrewlong71 sap is number one software in the world and the very best that why big companies uses it , maybe americans or canadians doesnt know how to use it

[@andrewlong71]

@@luiscardozo0000 yeah, we North Americans are just morons. It has nothing to do with the quality of SAP’s capabilities or interface. The whole selling point of SAP was that a large organization’s purchasing could be centralized and all the filing and “paperwork” could be downloaded onto the vendors. The software simplified the process for the buyer and vastly complicated it for the vendor. Effectively, it ensured that only larger vendors with the resources to fuck around with the horrendous software could compete for vending contracts, reducing the number of small enterprises able to compete.

[@elaowczarczyk7143]

As a Canadian when I went to business school this legit was an assignment I had to do. A perfect textbook example on what NOT to do. There are a number of other reasons why it failed. 1 they failed to do their research and treated us Canadians as Americans. 2 in Canada we don't have that "Bougie" mindset that Americans have, We ALL shop in Walmart no matter our economic differences.

[@meowtherainbowx4163]

My girlfriend interned at Target HQ as a programmer in 2017, and they actually taught her all about this blunder and what they learned from it. By the time she was there, they were doing 70% of their software in house as opposed to 30% during this time period, directly as a result of this failure. She says the video offers a more big-picture look than what she learned, but on the software side, it’s accurate.

[@jasonhaven7170]

This is why every big company needs its own in-house software development team, they need to stop thinking of this department as a cost centre and think of it as a profit centre. This is even worse in Europe hence why software developer salaries are so low in comparison to the USA even though Europe has the similar-sized economy and demand for software developers.

[@cbtan7348]

had a really tough month last october when company changed over to a new commercialized MES system. personally, i think that the in house MES is 100x better than the commercialized version. so many restrictions. feel like vomit on it. so many hiccups until now.

[@meowtherainbowx4163]

@@cbtan7348 You’re saying Target did that, or a different company you work for?

[@jfrankcarr]

I worked as a programmer at a company that was supplying Target around that time and got to witness the s__show first hand. It was an incredible mess.

[@louisliu5638]

@@jasonhaven7170 In 2009 I opened the Versa-Cold plant in Surrey, BC and they had six guys and a lady super. for Loblaw's on software. I wanted to ADD new trailer infor. as we were tracking loss prevention , UNLIKE other plants. They refused. They were dealing with a program that I think dated back to 1995. A billion dollar company and they "had no problems" until I CAME ALONG. Fortunately, I was off to the Winter Olympics 2010 and so could only give Loblaw's five months. What a s....t show.

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

As a Canadian living in a small city in Québec, a Target opened in a Zeller store, everyone was happy because Walmart was finally going to have some competition. it was actually stocked pretty well, the store had been renovated quickly from the old Zeller store. But only a couple weeks later, seeing that Target was just a more expansive Walmart, no one went there anymore, it sat empty for two years until it finally closed, no one was sad. It was a war between two American stores no one identifies with, we just went with the best deals, it was never Target.

[@MagicMike_101]

As a Canadian, I like to start my sentence with 'As a Canadian'

[@kaitlint3987]

Do you recall it smelling weird? In the one that replaced the Zellers in my local mall it smelled weird like burned nylon or something

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

@@kaitlint3987 Zellers always smelled weird because they were always in the oldest buildings around, the air quality probably wasn't great. It's why they needed to be renovated, as mentioned in the video.

[@kimmyera174]

@@kaitlint3987 We had one at our mall (replaced the zellers there too ofc), and because it was always attached to a starbucks. idk why, but that place always smelled horribly bad because of it. Seriously, I'd have to go to the opposite corner of the store (or further away from the store in the mall it connected to) to get relief from the stench. and also yeah, used to skip school some classes / days and visit there sometimes. Other than the smell, I hardly bought anything from there either. none of the stuff there seemed interesting.

[@mashinit8255]

Wait your local Target actually had stuff? The Target that I went to (Northwest Edmonton) had feck all in it.

[@deepsleep7822]

Your comment about who used the software is spot on. I worked for a company for 10 years, who, during that time had 3, well technically 4 project management pieces of software. The first year I started they were running 2, in parallel, because some C-suite Exec’s wouldn’t give up the old software. So employees had to enter info on 2 different systems. Further, and alluding to your comments, managers didn’t have to use the software as they had their own way of reporting projects to upper management. When I left, the latest project management software was very cumbersome to use, but upper management liked the pretty reports. smh

[@nick3790]

I remember when the Targets first came to Canada, in fact I think I could point out the exact store I visited on the map you showed.... most people I knew sorta just saw target as a weird Winners/Homesense/Walmart hybrid that didn't really have the greatest deals or was too similar to other options that were already readily available and well known. Add on things not being in stock and it felt like walking into half empty warehousey Amazon irl shop filled with junk you didn't really need for prices that weren't too exciting. And that was just it.

[@warfjm]

I did a paper on this. Target took the cheapest and quickest route to expand into Canada. This was a decision made at the executive level with no deep thought or time put into it. "Let's take these failed locations and turn them into Targets. Yeah, that won't backfire at all."

[@I.____.....__...__]

Especially since Target was no different than the stores it was replacing. If it _was_ different, they could argue those stores failed in those locations has no direct bearing on Target in those locations, but it was pretty much the exact same as Zellers and K-Mart, right down to the color-scheme. 🤦

[@ChasmChaos]

Cheapest? Instead of picking 1 or 2 metros, they opened up stores in the middle of bumfuck nowhere (which is most of Canada). I call that the opposite of cheapest.

[@warfjm]

@@ChasmChaos It's cheaper to re-use an existing location than it is to scout out, research, and build a new location.

[@ChasmChaos]

@@warfjm sure, I'm not disagreeing. It's also cheaper to re-use just 1 location and get it right.

[@Cary_Glenn]

One of my friends was a Manager at a Canadian Target. He mentioned that their planograms were very strict. He had a 100 blue pillows in backstock but only space for 10 in the plan. The plan said another colour was supposed to be beside the blue ones, but he didn’t have that colour so that shelf had to be empty. He could have made the shelves as least look better but that wasn’t permitted.

[@smileycindy]

😔

[@richardweighill8556]

We had a Target come to my home town and, while I liked it, I never shopped there much because they had so many items/brands that I was unfamiliar with and was unwilling to risk my limited cash on. But I was learning and getting used to the products and then they disappeared. One of my absolute favourite things that kept me coming back and would have made me a permanent customer was that there was no Muzak. It was quiet. I wasn’t being bombarded with annoying music while shopping. Especially at Christmas. It was bliss.

[@GustSergeant]

Something cool that a lot of my Sobeys and Safeways do here in Winnipeg is that they will dim the lights and turn off the music on Thursdays to respect those with visual and auditory sensitivities, which is honestly quite thoughtful of them; not sure if they do that all across the country, however.

[@MrZanvine]

As an enterprise data architect.. I feel this story profoundly.

[@ADUSN]

bullshit job

[@raymondwang3110]

LOL

[@SmokeyChipOatley]

So this was all your fault lol

[@LivingLonger]

I asked free Artificial intelligence (AI) 'chatGPT' 'Why Target Failed in Canada?': Target's failure in Canada can be attributed to several factors, including: - Rapid expansion: Target expanded into Canada too quickly, opening up 124 stores in a short amount of time. This led to supply chain problems, out-of-stock items, and long lines. - Poor store layout and merchandise selection: Target's stores in Canada were not well-received by consumers, who criticized the layout as confusing and the merchandise selection as unappealing. - Competition: Target faced intense competition from established Canadian retailers, such as Walmart and Canadian Tire. - High operating costs: Target's operations in Canada were plagued by high costs, including high rent, tariffs, and transportation expenses. - Poor execution: Target's entry into the Canadian market was plagued by operational issues, including problems with its supply chain, information technology systems, and logistics. Overall, Target's failure in Canada was a result of a combination of rapid expansion, poor store layout and merchandise selection, intense competition, high operating costs, and poor execution.

[@marie_171]

I’ve worked with SAP too. There is no such a thing as buying the product out of the box and use it. Everyone needs customization and IT changes and these takes time and are expensive.

[@the_ikiru]

One thing that was big news when Target launched in Canada was the lack of Target branded products. Target was having trouble importing it's own brands to Canada, and so on Day 1, everyone who went to Target left disappointed because they were selling the same products available in other stores. Canadians shop in America because America has different products not available here. It's not cheaper or better.

[@themonsterunderyourbed9408]

It absolutely is cheaper in the States even with the conversion rate. Canada is a smaller market so the prices are higher. End of story.

[@lthefifteenth661]

As a kid, I was super disappointed when Zellers closed down. Given how Walmart was a little more out of the way to visit, Zellers was an easy place to go when I wanted to buy whatever new toys were advertised on YTV. When Target came around, I was stoked cuz I was hoping it could be like when I was a kid, all over again. Imagine my utterly crushed hopes when they flopped so hard.

[@cavaalli]

zellers is coming back

[@l_guy]

This is a very Canadian sentence.

[@lthefifteenth661]

@@l_guy What gave that away? 😆

[@picklenik9658]

I think all I remember now from the Target disaster (in those 2 bad years I shopped there maybe once) is those commercials either the white dog that had the target logo around it’s eye.

[@Extant1000]

Great explanation of the SAP system failure. There was also a little know issue of the firm rules Target had for product placement in the stores. Combined with the distribution problems we faced, this became a nightmare for the employees. Here are a couple - of many - examples. The Target floor plan had set spaces for each colour of towel in a wall of towels. When all the towels were in stock and placed, it was supposed to look like a rainbow. The issue was that they sent the stores an obscene amount of white towels, and maybe one or two of the towels in a couple of colours. Most people would think it logical to put all of the white towels out to fill those empty spots, but Target had strict (and enforced) rules on how items must be placed. This meant that customers saw and empty wall of shelves with one small line of white towels, and the few random other colours, while staff had to (often dangerously) crawl around backrooms filled to bursting with all of the products that couldn't be moved out to the floor because the designated spot was already full. Another good example of the full backroom/empty store was when a store received an entire truck of basketball nets. Literally the entire, very large truck was nothing but large basketball nets. On the floor, there was a designated spot to fit two of them. To make matters worse, in one particular store, that designated spot had a pillar going through it and only one of the nets could be placed... squeezed in behind the pillar so the only way you could get it out was to remove all of the products sitting beside it. Because they couldn't be placed anywhere else in the store, the backroom was packed with nets until we got special permission to ship them back. It didn't take long for the backrooms to become so completely filled with products that couldn't be placed that staff had to shuffle and squeeze around back there. It was intensely frustrating for staff to move from a dangerously full backroom space out to the empty floor where angry customers would be waiting to voice how upset they were with the staff for not having products out.

[@arnepianocanada]

A Target bigwig gave the 'big revelation' that Canadian shoppers tend to use varied stores, not stay loyal to one retailer. That info should have been learned in Feasibility Study #1!

[@dngriffiths8105]

That may be true on some sort of macro level. However, a superior retailer finds ways to hook a significant subset of their customers, to engineer loyalty. Costco and Home Depot are both prime examples of how to do retail right, including creating a truly loyal customer base, even in Canada.

[@saosaqii5807]

That’s kinda true for most people really. Not many people have loyalty for just another mall, supermarket or shopping center. At most people go to these large corporate brands because they can expect consistent experience and larger product selection but that’s kinda it.

[@karenwang313]

In my case, there just aren't very many options. There's only one real Walmart in the area and it's location is abysmal where it's only entrance is right next to a freeway interchange and ends up congested and and pain to get in and out of. Meanwhile, there are targets everywhere that have a much better product selection. I recently took a shot on their shirts and they're not that bad.

[@hqwefg]

The one thing that everyone here in Canada remembers about Target is that the shelves were always empty. You can talk about the high prices, lacking website, and poor branding all you want but at the end of the day what did Target Canada in was that there wasn't anything to buy even if Canadian shoppers wanted to give Target their money. Like what did they expect? Canadian shoppers would just donate their money to Target?

[@hhiippiittyy]

One of the first three Canadian stores was in my hometown. I remember aisle after aisle with only one product on the shelves, spread thin to try to cover the space. It looked like a sad tidy apocalypse.

[@JeffMathias]

Logistics has always been Targets kryptonite here in the states too. My Midwest store has frequent outages of products that at clearly in abundant supply.

[@jeannerogers7085]

LOL, this sounds like my local Walnart.

[@CaptHollister]

The problem with inputting unvalidated information in your database is that too many errors get through. The result is that your warehouses are full, but your shelves are empty because your ERP system doesn't know where your inventory is and cannot correlate your empty shelves with your inventory. It may be trying to replenish shelves of " 30cm Balloons, red", but it won't find them if the warehouse inventory says "Red balloons, 30cm".

[@Eidlones]

I know someone that went in 3 separate times in a month to get socks, and there was never any there.

[@Cyril29a]

It is truly amazing how they didn't simply write a translation layer just below presentation that converted price, language and measurement units for the user. Anyone who has ever worked with enterprise software knows how long it takes to shake the bugs out.

[@SomeNativeOfficial]

I remember when target tried here in Canada and walking into the store and thinking the same thing as everyone else. They sell the same stuff as Walmart just more expensive xD

[@jumpmanbig]

One thing that never gets mentioned on videos about the failure of Target Canada is that they also lacked a proper website. I remember when they launched here in Canada and I wanted to see if they sold something that I was looking for that Walmart didn't have, so I decided to check their website, only to find out that it was just a PDF image of their weekly flyer... No way to navigate, no way to see store stock, no way to search for items they sold, nothing. Only of static image of their flyer of the week...

[@bane8305]

shut up boy

[@natatatt]

I recall that being pretty common back in that time period for international retailers in Canada, frustratingly. Uniqlo took years to launch their Canadian website, for example. Same with H&M back in the day. There was a period in the early 2010's when these companies seemed to think they could get away with zero Canadian website.

[@lisahoshowsky4251]

This!! I remembered their website being so behind the times and to me it always seemed like a big factor in them doing poorly. I couldn’t understand them opening without a functioning website.

[@rougenaxela]

I honestly think with just a little investment Zellers had a better chance of partially recovering than Target's mess. Prices were lower and had a working ERP system, even if it may have been dated. From my perspective as a Canadian growing up when this happened, Target (in Canada), during it's brief presence, was just an overpriced trashy foreign store trying to muscle in with nothing worth buying that wasn't cheaper somewhere else. In contrast Zellers a few years earlier was well... not great, but on the list of somewhere I might get an occasional thing from.

[@DFTricks]

And they had a simple, yet memorable family restaurant.

[@CinemaDemocratica]

I've watched the video twice now and I'm just so impressed with how well these "ERP" systems managed to improve things, vs having a store manager call the warehouse on the telephone and tell them what he needs. Obviously I'm some cave-dwelling technophobic unabomber to suggest that the whole thing might have worked better in 1985 than Target's actual implementation in Canada actually did, thanks to their self-blinkered over-reliance on flickering electric boxes to "automate" the perfectly functional systems that worked perfectly fine before. My washing machine has bluetooth. Why the *FUCK* does a washing machine have bluetooth? What possible advantage could be worth giving the North Koreans and the Chinese that kind of back-door vulnerability into my data?

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@CinemaDemocratica Spoiler: China and North Korea don't care about your datas :p Amazon and Disney probably do though, they're the ones who will buy datas about anyone XD

[@CinemaDemocratica]

@@krankarvolund7771 The fun thing about saying things like this, with this kind of smirking self-confidence, is that the first moment you've turned out to be wrong it would be the crowning dick-move of all recorded history to look you up and point it out to you.

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@CinemaDemocratica Okay explain to me why China or North Korea would want access to the data of some nobody in the US? ^^ I can see why big corporations want our datas, they're trying to sell us stuff and the more you know about your customer, the easier it is to sell them things. China is after US military secrets, not what you did last night XD

[@billylacharity3443]

Canadian here. Where I lived, we had a K-Mart just down the road. It was in a building, kind of mall like, but only 2 stores. An IGA and K-Mart. In between the 2 stores was a big corridor which would sometimes have smaller kiosks, but K-Mart was the highlight! I remember playing Nintendo in the electronics section when I was like 5-6 years old. I also remember the blue light sales. We also had Zellers, but it was father away. When I was old enough, I would bike to K-Mart to play super nintendo!

[@mm1234Xxx]

I remember Target. It was essentially a Walmart and SuperStore. Both of which were a 5 minute drive away. There is such a thing as too many big box stores. The Target was split into 3 separate stores, all of which are still thriving.

[@MichaelSmith-ij2ut]

As a former Target Canada employee on the Flow Team, this video was a lovely dose of schadenfreude.

[@CinemaDemocratica]

"Hi, this is Dave O'Gorman calling from the Mississauga store -- who am I speaking with, please? Paul? And what's your title there at the warehouse? Assistant Manager? Great. Listen, we're almost out of the following fifteen sku numbers at my store, are you ready to copy?" hashtag, unabomber hashtag, ohmygodyoucantdothat hashtag, youhavetousetheflickeringelectricboxes hashtag, youjustdontknowwhatyouretalkingabout hashtag, itwouldhavebeenevenworse hashtag, idontknowhowitcouldhavebeenworseyouretheunabomber

[@KamiKaZantA]

How to pronounce schadenfreude. Skuuden-fruudi. Skuuden-fruudi. Skuuden, and fruudi.

[@Booz2020]

Target Failed in Canada and Brasil, 7 Eleven Failed in Indoensyia but Starbucks successful in 🇨🇳 Wonder why 👀

[@Gurumeierhans]

@@KamiKaZantA Sha-den-froi-deh

[@KamiKaZantA]

@@Gurumeierhans Wrong, the correct way is demonstrated by "How to pronounce schadenfreude" by PronunciationManual

[@amptup8160]

I remember this situation vividly. I actually liked target, but it was incredibly disappointing to see the Zellers nearby change. They had a side section where you could get hot chocolate, smoothies and other drinks while hanging out and it was nice (specifically at the one I went to, not sure about all of them). After target failed it became a husk, which was incredibly sad to see.

[@Strelnikov403]

Remember the diners!? Man, the food was kinda mediocre, but the milkshakes kicked ass!

[@AbominablePoppy]

As an ERP Developer for a company that uses SAP, this was a fun video watch!!! I got all hyped when the PowerPoint segment started

[@foximacentauri7891]

As an sap developer, fuck you that shit is hard

[@orbyfan]

In Edmonton, Target took over the Zellers store in Kingsway Mall, and was four months late in opening. The shelves were usually empty; the only time I bought anything there was when 2-litre bottles of pop were on sale.

[@malachipash3824]

"...Walmart the face of America" McDonald's looks restless

[@MenezarianDuck]

Coca-Cola be like: *_moves to China_*

[@Minty_Aqua]

Haha. No stores in Europe. How the fuck is that worldwide?

[@greywolf6443]

@@Minty_Aqua There was Walmart in Europe for a while, I remember one opening in Berlin a long time ago (about 20 years or so?). But it vanished equaly quickly again. Couldn't tell you why, thought.

[@Minty_Aqua]

@Greywolf It's because Kaufland, Lidl, and Aldi robbed the business. Germans want to support their stores the most because it's also a developed country.

[@tengkualiff]

Probably since he wanted to make a point about Walmart being on the patriotic brands list. Also, McD focuses on its own brand rather than it being an "American" brand.

[@RossSpeirs]

I remember going to target when my daughter was first born, they also had these great deals on the Carters Onesies. I think I bought something random like bed sheets. I lived in Alberta Canada, at the time. It sure was not like the well stocked Targets in Southern California though. Also, hilariously, Zellers is trying to make a come-back.

[@zacharydurocher4085]

Ça va pas durer longtemps.

[@alexelectricx]

LOL, Zellers is going to operate food trucks outside of The Bay stores. Such fail

[@WitchMedusa]

I wanna help their comeback! If I see one I'm gonna go there!

[@misselise1237]

Hi from Canada, I'm glad I found this channel and just subscribed. Great video, even the "overseas joke" 😆😆

[@apocalypse369]

I worked at target canada from before the grand opening up until we liquidated all the stores and this was very intriguing to watch. This is all true, I'll never forget the day when news broke that we were closing down and all of us heard the news on TV before the actual stores did. Had a emergency meeting moments later it was surreal. Fun times in retrospect I've never experienced that before.

[@natsuhotaru12]

I remember using SAP at my first job after graduating university. Was a nightmare to use and I was the only one at my company who could use it extensively. So happy my company ditched it after 7 months.

[@alexelectricx]

SAP like any ERP system needs a team to manage it properly. Sorry you had to work for a company not prepared for it's complexities.

[@Obscurai]

SAP (or any ERP) requires dedicated staff to operate. Unfortunately, that staff is usually high-priced ERP consultants that milk the engagement for years. The opacity of their systems is notorious in IT. Just try to read understand SAP's website and you'll know what I'm talking about. Lots of words and very little substance.

[@acctsys]

What did you find satisfactory? I'm curious because I used MS Nav and SAP and I'd take SAP any day.

[@AleksOniszczak]

I lived in the US for a few years and was a frequent Target shopper. The biggest disappointment I had with the Canadian stores were the extremely high prices. The video claims prices were just 15% higher but it sure seemed a lot higher than that to me. I really loved Target in the US and shopped there frequently, but the Canadian stores prices just made the place a non starter for me. I’m always surprised watching these videos about the events I experienced myself first hand and how differently they are portrayed. Sure. There were a few empty shelves - but not many in my memory. News outlets would focus their cameras on these few empty shelves of course to make their stories more dramatic - but the crazy high prices were rarely mentioned. Very odd.

[@bruhice6058]

Is it probable that the increase in prices you saw between US and CA was also due to the Canadian dollar being worth less?

[@giantWario]

@@bruhice6058 He means they had crazy high prices compared to any other shop in Canada, not compared to Target USA. I agree with him that saying prices were only 15% higher seems extremely lenient, some of their stuff was easily 50% more expensive than they were at Walmart. That's all Target ever was for me and my parents during the brief time it was here, a very overpriced Walmart.

[@iiiiiifggffggffgfgfg]

@@bruhice6058 The price after conversion was higher.

[@paulmoir4452]

@@bruhice6058 No, we know all know about the conversion factor here. They were wildly overpriced for what they were offering compared to other retailers and their shelves were also empty. It was a disaster.

[@Azsunes]

Yeah, Walmart would have the same items for cheaper. The one near me was across the street from Walmart which made it even worse. I remember going into it and the shelves weren't empty but there were no shoppers. It is now a Costco one of the smaller ones near me though, so I drive the extra 5 minutes to one that is 3 times the size and less busy.

[@fauxre]

Hey. Hate to be "that guy," but, I just thought I'd let you know, that the footage used in the latter third of this upload (11:23), is NOT of a Target location. This is footage of a CVS (Consumer Value Store).

[@sinoroman]

that’s cap

[@TheGamingCanadian]

@@sinoroman It isn’t

[@killlick3883]

I spent a lot of time in different targets across ontario as my dad was the card distributor for them. I actually have a few fond memories of that place, and I don’t quite remember seeing stock issues in the stores I was in. What I do remember however was how unnecessary the whole store was. It was in an old Zellers location which also happened to be directly across from a Walmart. They didn’t offer standout products or name brands, their food selection was freezer, canned or boxed, their card section consisted of 2 huge aisles of cards on both sides (this was quite excessive), their electronic section was exactly like Walmart minus the staff, there was just no good justifiable reason to shop there. All this considered, and their prices were always higher than Walmart. I’m not surprised this drove shoppers away from them. As beloved as Zellers was, Canadians were eager to get a taste of something new to fill its shoes, and Target underestimated how big Zellers shoes were to fill. What replaced many Canadians favourite bargain store with a home style diner was an arrogant, insulting, and overzealous store with an overpriced coffee shop. If you’re like most Canadians, you checked it out once and probably never returned. Trying to slide into the same spot Zellers held was not an accomplishable goal, yet they still tried. Now Zellers is coming back to life, and has a heartbeat. Rip Target Canada. We don’t want you back.

[@AnakinSkyobiliviator]

I remember when Target declared that it was opening in Canada. People I know and myself were fairly optimistic about having the chain open up. But when it eventually did, we were taken aback a bit by the price of products within and the surprisingly little variety in inventory. While the stores I went to never suffered (to my knowledge) from inventory not being restocked, there were just an awful lot of maternity items for a store of its size.

[@toast3591]

The maternity section was HUGE I remember it being bigger than the electronics department and being the most stocked section of the store

[@ferociousgumby]

@@toast3591 That's bizarre. Were they running a baby farm?

[@creepycustard2383]

Quick correction: Australia also has Target, and it's integrated into the market quite well. So it's not only in the US.

[@TheQxtm]

Despite the similarities in logo and goods sold, they're actually completely separate entities on a legal level. Target Australia is owned by Wesfarmers, USA Target is not. It's had funny consequences like people writing to complain about policies one Target was doing to completely the wrong people.

[@robotword]

@@TheQxtm damn really, also target dissolved a few years ago right?

[@TomRothwell]

@@TheQxtm something weird going on here.... we also have Kmart as well, yet i see articles about no connection between USA and AUS ones. Conspiracy!

[@simonepulga8188]

@@TomRothwell oh you’re gonna have a field day looking up what’s going on with Burger King here in Australia 😅

[@guspaz]

@@TomRothwell There are more A&W restaurants in Canada than the US... and they've actually been separate unrelated companies since splitting up half a century ago. They're the number 2 burger joint in Canada and are quite well regarded.

[@camdickie]

I grew up in Milton Ontario and I remember when they opened the Target store, I was quite excited but sad that my childhood store of Zellers was closing. I did not realize that we were one of the first stores. I remember going into Target and thinking, '*this* is what they thought would be a better replacement for Zellers?' Awesome video to contextualize my experience.

[@areej5732]

I’m from milton too and thats weird bc everyone was so hyped for target and upset it closed. they were upset zellers closed too tho but i miss target…

[@I.____.....__...__]

Zellers is returning to Canada this spring, so maybe they'll re-open the one you went to as a child.

[@SableDrakon]

Funny thing is that I was working for Target during the attempt to expand into Canada. The boxes of repack that came from over the border after the collapse was absolutely hilarious. Just box after box of utter crap they expected us to sell. So much of it ended up being marked down and eventually destroyed.

[@davehenderson6125]

What was some of the crap they were sending?

[@SableDrakon]

@@davehenderson6125 it's been 5 years since I've set foot in a Target. I honestly can't remember.

[@jimmyzhao2673]

6:13 Tell me more about this new fangled invention, the computer. I *love* your Powerpoint slides. I lost my mind when I saw Clippy the Paperclip !

[@kameronb]

Canadians never stopped shopping at American Target. Not only did the Canadian version not have good prices, they also didn’t have the products that everybody likes to buy at the US target. So that was partially the issue along with the other factors that you’ve mentioned. Nobody wanted Target Canada, everybody wanted Target America to be more convenient.

[@i.d.6282]

This is an issue for all cross-border retailers though (including Walmart) and is usually an issue of different regulations. I remember when Target was just opening I was wincing a bit knowing people would be “surprised” to find how different it was. Although they continued to sell Zellers stock too, which didn’t help.

[@mitchv.7492]

Also (and this would make a great video) most Zellers' workers had a union and when Target came in and tried to keep the same employees without one, many of them left or were not hired back. The store near me in Saint-Eustache, Québec had barely any employee because of this...

[@Souten66]

As someone who worked at Zellers fir many years, I can assure you most Zellers employees did NOT have a union. It was talked about in the lunchroom frequently “Did you know some Zellers employees are unionized? Can we do that? Would we get a pay raise?” And managers were given training on how to shut down any talk of unions and how to get rid of the person pushing it

[@MmeHyraelle]

Oh dear, i met someone from that store, no wonder she was stressed AF

[@EBFilmsMan]

Thank you for mentioning Sudbury in your corporate mock Powerpoint! 6:32

[@jimmieeddieschwenk3117]

ALSO luv your video showing Target Canada with Palm Trees in the parking lot.... That must have been really expensive...lol...

[@godofwhiskey]

The problem is Zellers had remodelled a few years prior. They had 60's style diners in them and had some decent products in them. If they had revamped and matched wallmarts electronics section I think they could have competed well. Target was just worse across the board. I used to go to Zellers, I walked through the revamped target twice and never bought anything. It basically made me get over the stigma that wallmart had to me at the time.

[@NeoTheLynx]

Zellers was planning on remodeling all their stores but sadly only a small group of them actually got the new one that more ironically looked a lot like target with the painting and new fixtures.

[@godofwhiskey]

@@NeoTheLynx ah I must have been near one of those

[@NeoTheLynx]

I know about one in Manitoba that got the new style.

[@riseofazrael]

Zellers was absolute trash and this rewriting of it's history is just Canadian nostalgia at it's worst. Can't wait for them to open back up in HBC's only for everyone to complain about how much it sucks....again.

[@godofwhiskey]

@@riseofazrael Its what you compare it to, Zellers had far more going for it then what we got with Target. I agree there is no point opening a new Zellers today but I remembered the last 5 years or so of Zellers being decent. Though mine was in a strip mall with Canadian tire and a lob laws so it could be that combo.

[@Arkiasis]

3:00 The name "Weston" brings a shiver down any Canadians' spine now. Grocery is a duopoly in Canada and Weston's Loblaws have hiked grocery prices 30-50% in the last year.

[@zerohero5753]

Literally ruled by oligarchs: telecom, banking, food with one of the highest prices in the world.

[@johnseppethe2nd2]

Do you guys not have farmers markets and local groceries?

[@brianwelch1579]

@@johnseppethe2nd2 for a couple months in summer, sure. Starting maybe first week of July there could be "local" stuff from BC (only 3000km away). Actual locally grown produce won't come in any substantial quantity until late july through early september. There just isn't enough daylight and warmth after that. In winter the potatoes and onions are often local. Probably beets too. That's for here in Winnipeg, Manitoba (central Canada).

[@gregorywhite9095]

Weston sends a shiver down my spine because of the "quality" of their products.

[@ChasmChaos]

@@zerohero5753 don't forget real estate. No one does a supply-side squeeze like the Canadian real estate cartel.

[@canuck21]

I'm from Montreal and I did sometime window shopped at the downtown Target in Alexis Nihon. I don't remember empty shelves, but I do remember the lack of customers. It is now a Canadian Tire and it's one of my most visited stores. It's the nicest Canadian Tire and the store seems busy, much more so then when it was a Target.

[@dhv2852]

The PowerPoint bit waa very funny, cool editing!

[@jaredpoon5869]

One other set of reasons comes from the fact that Target's competitors, such as Superstore and Walmart, had ample time and warning that Target was coming to Canada. What ended up happening was that Superstore, a store that focuses mainly on groceries and food items, expanded into clothes, toys, and makeup (or more expanded), and Walmart expanded its retail offerings to match Target's common offerings. As a result, when Target came to Canada and wasn't ready, Target and Superstore toke over Target's niche. Thus, when Target did have stock, it didn't have much of a market because it competitors were prepared well in advance. These problems were in addition to those you mentioned in the video.

[@cinnamon_bunz5913]

Superstore always had clothing, housewares, electronics, whatever Target was selling, and groceries.

[@ferociousgumby]

@@cinnamon_bunz5913 Their clothing section, particularly kids' clothes, is four times the size and has much higher quality/variety of merchandise than our local full-service Walmart. Target's clothing was wretched. You'd get better merchandise at the Salvation Army, and for a better price.

[@cobra-chicken]

I started working for Target in Canada during the holiday season of 2014. We all knew something was wrong when everyone just sat around and was pretty much doing nothing during boxing day. On Jan 5th the following year they made the announcement and I was let go. Now I'm a developer for enterprise software. "Even on the best of days, deadlines, schedules, and roadmaps are just wishful thinking" is the most accurate statement I've heard in a while about our industry.

[@dennisrankin325]

We lived across from a Zellers, on closing, missed it dearly, then Target took over the site. It was so far away from the Zellers experience we only used the store as an inclement weather path to the rest of the plaza and never shopped there.

[@Nightstick24]

As a Canadian living in the town that the very first target in Canada moved into, the primary reason it failed is because I think they thought we were stupid? I can get to the U.S by car in a couple hours, or by boat in about an hour, and MANY people head across the border for day trips. We regularly shop in the U.S - including at Target. Apparently Target didn't realize that though, because they were pawning off garbage-quality goods for over twice the price here. I was excited they were moving into Canada, there's a lot of things I got at Target in the states because it was such a better price and it was all good quality stuff. But when I went shopping on opening day here I was appalled, all the stuff they had was garbage-quality, nothing could even compare to what you'd find in a U.S Target, and everything in the store was nearly twice the price of the U.S Target that I'd shopped at the week before. I bought some stuff to compare as I had the EXACT same thing at home that I'd previously purchased from the U.S Target and it was clear as day the quality was vastly inferior, anyone could tell at a single glance it was so obvious - and every single thing I got cost me over double, up to quadruple, as it did in the U.S Target. I thought maybe it was just an opening thing and it might get better, but everything they brought into the store were the rejects they couldn't sell in the U.S, and the prices stayed incredibly over-inflated. It was to the point where shopping at the local mom and pop shops here was better quality AND better price! I don't know what Target was thinking, but MANY Canadians frequently pop down to the states for some shopping fun, so we know what quality and price Target is supposed to be.

[@ve2vfd]

Interestingly, my local Zellers (in a western Montreal suburb) was in pretty rough shape. When Target came in they barely did anything to upgrade it, I mean they just changed the signage and that's about it... so inside this "new" Target was really an old dirty run down Zellers. "A fresh coat of paint" would be an exaggeration. Add this to the empty shelves and the store was dead on arrival. When Walmart took over, they shut it down for months and completely re-decorated and cleaned up the place and it's now a very successful store.

[@renzstudios649]

Target is also in Australia. Definitely not as large as Target is in the US and often not selling food too, but there is definitely many targets in Australia

[@baseduck]

Apparently, the Targets in Australia are run by a completely separate company with a *very* similar logo. Weird.

[@LittleLordFancyLad]

Different company completely despite the same name, logo and type of goods.

[@t.texastimmy1022]

This story brought on a flash back of learning (& coping) with Oracle's ERP. Fast forward, I took a voluntary demotion and never looked back.

[@tammypitchuck4748]

"It was the quickest expansion in company history" It was also the only expansion in company history lol

[@MrKbtor2]

This is interesting. I'm Canadian and I always tried to put my finger on the reason for the failure. You brought me closer to an understanding. You really had a good understanding of the whole picture. I remember shopping at a Target in Canada and seeing the staged setting of a few products scrunched together looking minimalistic. Compared to Walmart where you had a variety of choices on the aisle you had to sort through before making a decision.

[@jasondrummond9451]

Not any more - since the pandemic - and since the closest Walmart turned into an online shopping hub - the shelves are incredibly empty. You never know what won't be there .... canned beans or cocoa are two items I've gone away without in the last few weeks. None to buy.

[@toast3591]

I remember walking into target for the first time and it felt so sterile, even when it was closing, everything was so staged it felt like a show home and not a retail grocery store

[@BobBob-wz1en]

The Target in Edmonton was Walmart but worse. Same selection and some of the items were more expensive than Walmart. My mother and I stopped in 3 times over the store’s 7 month lifespan. The only time it was worth it was during their closing sales even then it was barely worth it. I got a cheap coat for 85% off during the sale.

[@qtluna7917]

As a guy living in the SAP heartland (their HQ is visible from my balcony) and having met and talked to multiple people interning/working there, up to a mid level manager recruited from the US specifically for US customer acquisition and later support. Their product needs so much support, it's insane. And there are dozens of multimillion dollar companies offering third party support, which also pay more to their staff than SAP themselves. And yes, none of the people knew working there stayed there. They all either went independent or joined one of the third party companies.

[@elainemunro4621]

I worked for SAP in the San Francisco Bay area in the 1990’s and was shocked with how many manufacturing customers were not fully online. There were maybe two companies who would provide references and tours of their facilities. The backstory was that the SAP software had so many options and switches that there was no documentation on what the result would be on an operation! Customized sofware patches were put in where the software didn’t work as desired, and that was not disclosed to potential customers. It built its clientele by winning the support of the big accounting firms, who saw losts of consulting contracts, so they pushed their clients to move ahead and buy. It amazes me that lawsuits did not overwhelm SAP.

[@biguattipoptropica]

From what I heard (I moved here after Target closed) they didn’t bring in American products. For example: my husband wants to try Lay’s limon chips. They don’t sell them here, and people were looking to Target to bring American exclusive and novelty products across the border. They didn’t.

[@SushiParty]

I remember getting ready to move to the UK as Target announced it's expansion into Canada. 2 years after I moved the the UK, I visited home in Canada and couldn't find any Targets and when I asked my family about it, they said they had closed down and left the Canadian market. I was surprised and felt a little sad I had missed my chance to shop at a Canadian Target. Fast forward to now and Zeller's is coming back to life.

[@sullychow4123]

What would you say is the closest equivalent to Zellers in the UK.

[@emeraldfinder5]

Trust me, you didn’t miss much. They had significantly lower quality products than their American locations, and they were charging almost twice as much as other stores would for similar products.

[@LittleLordFancyLad]

@@sullychow4123 Like an Asda Walmart Supercentre, but without the fresh grocery section (just canned and dry goods) and more clothes and cheap housewares.

[@MasterWooten]

At 2:00 Zellers however is being reintroduced into the Canadian market and with much fanfare as that "1990s Time Capsule" has tapped into the value that such nostalgia represents here in Canada. That and the Hudson's Bay company needs a discount chain all its own to recoup some costs from it's sale merch which doesn't move at its stores!

[@curtandoscar]

I was thrilled when a Target moved into the Pickering, Ontario mall location very close to where my best friend lives. She used to visit the US ones when she would visit me (I'm in the States). When it suddenly closed after a year or two, we could not believe it.

[@rocketman1969]

“To the strange and exotic lands of Ohio” lol!

[@Minty_Aqua]

I don't get that joke.

[@Game_Hero]

@@Minty_Aqua no one gets the joke called Ohio.

[@brebmann]

I work for a large enterprise (supply chain) software company. We had to switch a massive retailer from software they had been using for years over to our new system. It was a train wreck and a year and a half later there are still problems. If this had happened in a different country, too, while trying to open up new stores, i can’t even imagine the disaster it could be.

[@CinemaDemocratica]

Just think of how much WORSE it would have been if the store managers just called into the warehouse to report what they needed over the phone. I mean, gosh, if the guhbillion dollars worth of flickering electric boxes made a year and a half worth of problems, then calling in the orders must surely make the sun explode, or something.

[@jasonhaven7170]

This is why every big company needs its own in-house software development team, they need to stop thinking of this department as a cost centre and think of it as a profit centre. This is even worse in Europe hence why software developer salaries are so low in comparison to the USA even though Europe has the similar-sized economy and demand for software developers.

[@jasonhaven7170]

@@CinemaDemocratica You don't know how big companies work, do you?

[@CinemaDemocratica]

@@jasonhaven7170 I barely know how to dress myself. That being said, it seems to me that the far more operative question is whether you know how big companies *don't* work. Because you just watched a video laying it out step by step and you still seem not to understand. I got bored with this thread a long time ago and I've been trying to get out of it by letting the apologists have the last word, but this is just so inherently exasperating that it demands responding to. We've got a video in which the objective facts aren't in dispute: Full (in some cases over-full) warehouses, empty shelves, durable mismatch because of a software implementation. I haven't heard anyone coming after me regarding whether any of those three things are settled facts. How is that not the absolute and non-negotiable end of saying things to me like, "I'm not even going to waste time trying to explain this" or "you just don't know how big companies work"? Would it be chaotic and dysfunctional to resort to phoning into the warehouse? It would be an absolute farce -- a circus -- bad things would happen that the apologists haven't even thought to mention. But would it be worse than losing an entire $7 Billion in two years? How? By causing the sun to explode? Nope, not gonna dignify that, dummy, here's the flickering boxes, now bow to the flickering boxes. All must bow to the flickering boxes. If you do not bow to the flickering boxes, you are stupid and crazy and I'm not going to dignify this by explaining it to you. Bow, to, the, flickering, boxes. Do it now, stupid guy. Do it while we're all here watching. Kiss the flickering boxes. Thank the flickering boxes. Bow to the flickering boxes.

[@jasonhaven7170]

@@CinemaDemocratica You've just waffled about a lot of nothing. Evidently, you don't understand how big companies work nor how to look after yourself. Also, if you're this mad about "flickering boxes", how about you get off the computer, stupid guy?

[@RangerBloxs]

I remember my mom buying a Target sale a few years ago at the upper Canada mall, I love Target and hope they go to more countries

[@Guxx]

I remember hitting up the Zeller's for clearance priced lego sets and then doing it again when the Target shut down, all in all worked out pretty good

[@holymacoral1]

I used to work at the Balzac distribution centre (eleven points logistics) as an inventory control coordinator, it was a decent job that paid well. Their inventory management was pretty archaic tho. I spend my days in a scissor lift counting every single item in the 3million square foot warehouse over and over.

[@louisliu5638]

Loblaw's had a dinosaur system as well and wondered why they had little control over "Loss Prevention". I tried but the VP in western Canada was without question the most incompetent person I ever met any where at any time. She must have been in in law of some kind. There's no way she's ever have been that high and hired for ability.

[@fieryelf]

When the place was closing down my brother needed a baby monitor so we went there and found one with a 50% discount. It was roughly 200$. I scanned the bar code and found the exact same thing on Amazon for 100$. So regular price was 400$ and I could get the same thing for 4 times cheaper on Amazon...

[@misslissa7336]

Canadian from Vancouver Island here. We were excited to get Target here, as a lot of us had shopped at one before while visiting states. The stores were never fully stocked that I ever saw, and the prices were so much higher than we expected. It was a huge let down.

[@Nukestarmaster]

I am Canadian, and I have never been inside of a Target. There was a Zellers 20 minutes away from where I lived, and then there was just an empty shell. Our local small city wasn't deemed important enough for a Target, and thus the empty corpse of the Zellers just sat there for _years_ (the mall had to put up a wall in the way of the former entrance). Then years later I went to university in a city that had been large enough for Target to notice it and once again I was treated to the corpse of a box store, this time done up in Target's red and white. Honestly, the entire event felt more like a weird cross of a natural disaster and urban blight than any kind of business move.

[@CalCalCal6996]

My buddy worked as a barista in the Starbucks in the target at billings bridge in Ottawa. I remember him telling me constantly how the place was terribly run and they never had anything in stock. It's now a pretty good Wal mart location lol

[@riseofazrael]

I worked at the HQ in Mississauga. The stores were never stocked because we only had 3 distribution centres for the whole country, and 2 of them were in Ontario.

[@riseofazrael]

@@BeerBuddy1977 What?? lmao what about my name? You're weird.

[@theinternetofrandomthings7796]

There is Target in Australia, but despite having exactly the same logo, name and type of shop is a completely separate company with no links at all.

[@nefertitimontoya]

That ppt segment was brilliant and hilarious 😂

[@BMXaster]

I use SAP every day extensivly, working at a major tools company, and I must say, the power this tool provides is incomprehendsable. It can do anything you could ever imagine, it has information about every single step, every single tiny iteration of any product, protoype, concept, supply chain, etc. It's truly amazing

[@leechrec]

Yes, if implemented correctly.

[@jaadotech]

@@leechrec exactly! So I have been closely involved in the complete opposite of the Target Canada ERP disaster, a global business but with far smaller scale of logistics activities, and its not an accident or chance they got it right, and its not about the ERP software (SAP) being garbage, as Poly Matter says it was a unachievable time scale to attempt the task in, although it would have been possible to do, the time-frame constraints possibly meant that a successful ERP implementation may have needed 2x,3x,5x or even 10x the upfront ERP system implementation budget. As it was our companies hired a Big 4 audit company as implementation consultants and spent 6 years planning testing stabilizing - and that was longer than planned!

[@madhououinkyoma]

It is very clear that the power this tool provides is incomprehendsable.

[@DC-id2ih]

Thanks for another great video! I live in Ottawa and I remember being surprised by the whole Target fiasco when it occurred......I always find it remarkable when a large and successful company/brand stumbles so dramatically by making what appears to be almost "rookie" mistakes. Unfortunately, these kinds of errors are not limited to corporations. If you'd like to cover other examples of problematic system launches in Canada, then you should check out two recent fiascos - 1) The CDN government's disastrous 2016 implementation of the so called "Phoenix" payroll system for federal workers; or 2) Ottawa's launch of it's new Confederation Line LRT system. There's probably enough material in either of these events to make a 2 hour documentary on how NOT to manage a major project that involves public spending ....

[@justsayin5609]

Try to stick to the thread, will you? All irrelevant to this conversation which indicates your PC bias, and no, I'm not a Liberal...😉

[@DC-id2ih]

@@justsayin5609 Sigh - I think you are misunderstanding the point of my comment. I think one of the main issues with both Phoenix and the Ottawa LRT was broadly similar to what happened at Target - i.e. projects that were very ambitious and were rushed into implementation before being ready ....leading to a lot of fallout that could best be described as a fiasco. The reason I enjoy KZbinrs like PolyMatter so much is because he creates objective/concise analyses of the topics being explored.....and I honestly think that kind of detailed step-by-step analysis of the problems encountered with Phoenix and the LRT would be interesting/informative and would make for a good video - hence the suggestion. I get how - especially these days - any critical comment of a publicly funded/gov't managed project can easily devolve into a pointless left/right shouting match....but that is not what I was trying to do with the above comment. (and to clarify I am not a supporter of the conservative party nor do I think the fundamental issues with either Phoenix or the LRT are related to politics but were rather caused by problematic project mngmt).

[@evelynsaungikar3553]

@@DC-id2ih I agree, Phoenix was another SAP debacle! Plus, the feds had even more sku’s, meaning in this case, pay modalities.

[@emilymartinko720]

@@DC-id2ih so confused why they equated criticizing the lrt to being a pc supporter- literally everyone hated it, it failed disastrously. Sure JT was in charge but that doesn’t mean the fault of the project was *because* of the liberals, it was just a government fuck up, those always happen. oc transpo has been hated for ages. no one remembers the outrages from the last PC era because it was so long ago- i literally wasn’t even politically active back then! but yeah WHEEW i was rlly lucky i missed the horrors of the lrt- i just had to deal with the regular oc transpo fuckups of waiting an hour in the winter for a bus that was “every fifteen minutes”

[@natatatt]

My university in Canada is completing a massive (and massively complex) enterprise system transition right now. Hopefully they don't end up being a Phoenix/Target-like story.

[@MrOnionRing]

I loved target so much. I still treasure all the nice stuff I bought from there. Would have loved to have kept zellers in the first place but losing target was actually painful. The one in my city was in the perfect location to succeed. It really sucks that the reason they closed is because of their backend system.

[@GillDawe]

I know exactly why Target failed, here in Newfoundland, it normally takes us a solid DECADE to get our first location when a franchise first comes to Canada. The day Target opened in Canada, Newfoundland had 2 locations. That was great for me as I personally L-O-V-E-D Target here in Canada while we had it, but bad for me in the long run as that is absolutely not how to grow a successful business.

[@1001VideoGames]

As a Canadian I always love hearing this, seriously, they teach this in business schools now.

[@Crazybawrks]

I did not expect to learn so much about ERP in this video

[@TrickiVicBB71]

I remember the hype and seeing the stores. Never once stepped foot in one. Read the articles of the failure. Felt like I missed out

[@briancherry8088]

We loved when the Target was open here. Yes, it was often far too empty, but it was so nice to have an alternative to Walmart. And when things went on sale there.... wow.... they had good sales.

[@larrybrown8560]

Target came into Canada replacing Zellers which was the discounted partner of parent company The Bay. After waiting a year or 2, Target started to open stores to my surprise the pricing was equal to or even higher than that of the Bay. No one wants to pay more for inferior quality. That was what I experienced and heard of from friends.

[@MagicMike_101]

I heard of XD

[@maclain728]

I lived close to the Milton Target (one of the first 3 locations) and store was basically just a worse version of the Zellers that was there before That place was insanely busy for a while because like you said Canadians really did want to give it a chance. But both the inventory they had as well as how little there was really killed it’s chances in our town fast

[@kylemcisaac]

Former store employee here, another fatal software issue that happened was the Point of Sale system. It was buggy and not even close to the US version. The Canadian version, known as "Retalix" at the time, crashed regularly or at times didn't even process payments (card transactions approved, but just never took the money). Also, mixed into the SAP side, while stores would get alerted if items were at a "near-zero" amount so they could replenish, if the quantity reached a negative value, the software wouldn't do anything, wouldn't alert, etc (e.g. if there were actually ten of the item but the system was at zero, then five of them sold; the system would say -5).

[@Bobbbybags]

6:27 really love the slideshow