7 Hard Pivots for Games That Shouldn't Have Worked But Did

[@outsidextra]

These games took their series in a totally different direction, but it seemed to pay off...! 🎮👍

[@stephenfontanilla]

I crave food

[@barrybend7189]

Megaman zero tone wise and Megaman ZX as a Metroidvania.

[@horseoftheinvisible499]

A Luke VO introduction? Neigh-...I mean, yay!

[@ghostderazgriz]

Hey this made me think of a list idea. 7 developers went outside their comfort zone and made brilliant games. Horizon Zero Dawn?

[@Insanerobert44]

Maybe Ellen didn't get fired, but with all these puns you could say she was.... "ON FIRE"! I will show myself out now.

[@illogicalbobcat8365]

Rad-roaches aren't giant bugs, they're giant features.

[@Kantohammer]

My only regret is that I can only press the thumbs up button one time on this.

[@baconlovingvampire4523]

Hahaha

[@Violet-Spark]

And they just… work

[@gamelifeusa]

Lol

[@leonlastname8070]

This comment wins

[@bobwillington4987]

Oh my god I love Ellen’s line “Much like someone handcuffed to a roll of coins, things are bound to change” it’s a terrible joke . . . But I love it. What’s wrong with me?

[@PrinceYamiUchihaCosplay]

Love those terrible jokes as I just burst out laughing when one of the jokes comes out hahaha

[@biancaluedeker]

Good one!

[@achtsekundenfurz7876]

Much like someone displayed in a glass coffin . . . remains to be seen ;)

[@BoomShard17]

I got a chuckle out of that too lol

[@ellisrouch9155]

Bars

[@scarletarrowgaming5843]

"There's so many bugs in these games" Well played, Ellen.

[@swj719]

We've talked about this. Don't encourage her.

[@scarletarrowgaming5843]

Lol if you think we can stop her powers of punnery, you’ve made a grave mistake 😂

[@dhotnessmcawesome9747]

@@scarletarrowgaming5843 Damn right! I say encourage the Hell out of it.

[@swj719]

@@scarletarrowgaming5843 I understand that she cannot be stopped. But that doesn't mean we must encourage such behavior. :)

[@scarletarrowgaming5843]

@@swj719 If you can't beat 'em, join 'em 😉

[@DFloyd84]

The Like a Dragon devs made another change, this time a cosmetic one, in response to a tweet. Someone pointed out that if they changed "Misc." to "Etc." in the action menu in the English localization, they could make a "SEGA" initialism from the action names. They apparently approved of the idea and the change was made.

[@Artificer1911]

I appreciate that someone else knows initialisms and acronyms are different. :D Although, "SEGA" would be an acronym in this case. :)

[@flaetsbnort]

@@Artificer1911 Aren't all acronyms initalisms?

[@Silver_wind_1987_]

I love developers who are just like: fucking why not!??!

[@bastion8804]

​@@flaetsbnort No. If you pronounce it by spelling out every letter (WB, SCS, HB, etc.) then it's initialism. If you pronounce it like you would a regular word (SEGA, CAPCOM, etc.) then it's an acronym.

[@flaetsbnort]

@@bastion8804 I legit didn't know that, so thanks for the info!

[@avesrex]

REach for the moon engine is a fine addition to the 'tortured backronyms' list

[@GlaciesYin]

It's so tortured I'm not even sure it can be viewed as a backronym. It's literally just the first two letters of one word, hardly even an acronym. A contrACKtion, perhaps? (I'll show myself out)

[@dcbandit]

It's a REach For the Moon that this acronym makes any sense.

[@denverarnold6210]

@@dcbandit about as much sense as Hazardous EnVironment suit from Half-life.

[@firstlast822]

But what happens when the moon REaches for the stars?

[@avisian8063]

@@firstlast822 or climbs every mountain higher?

[@flaetsbnort]

If you think about it, Resident Evil did a double pivot. It pivoted successfully from survival horror to action with RE4, then pivoted back

[@ethanrobyn2399]

I want Nintendo to make a game called the Legend Of Link and for the entire game you play as Zelda.

[@norablanche]

I think that is only fair

[@Ranmus]

Zelda: Wand of Gamelon, 😆

[@jodinsan]

@@Ranmus Doesn't exist and we don't like to talk about it.

[@Th3BlackLotus]

Press X to be captured by Ganon Press Y to lay there and wait for Link to show up.

[@anthonynorman7545]

I concur!

[@Amaritudine]

"Bound to change" is the most torturously laboured, and therefore absolute best, pun I've heard in a long while.

[@jonfedien8637]

You start to realise you're getting on in years when you can actively remember all these changes at the point they actually happened. Damn I love gaming.

[@RLHooper]

After FF9 I pretty much abandoned the series except for 11 and 14 ARR, I disliked the way they moved it

[@jonfedien8637]

@@RLHooperit's between 9 and 10 for my second favourite ff spot. I played them all apart from the mmorpgs and didn't complete one after 10 until 15. None of them objectively speaking are bad games they just lost the way a little.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

As much as I haven't played FF much, I might be tempted to do with IV, V, VI, VII, VIII (please don't judge), IX, X, XII, and Tactics; maybe even Vagrant Story as well.

[@kekohokko7213]

@@michaelandreipalon359 No need to be defensive about playing VIII, imho it still has the best soundtrack, mini-game, cutscenes and summons in the series. Also love the attribute/skill system.

[@prince_nocturne]

@@RLHooper I actually rather liked FF15. And no, my name is NOT a reference to it. My name predates the game by 6 years! Yes, I still like the game despite that they stole my name. ...though FF9 is still my favorite. *shrugs* I'm also old enough to remember all these changes and more! Like Toejam & Earl going from weird roguelike to side scrolling platformer.

[@andhanwib]

Do you reckon the whole Sims franchise is also another example? Didnt SimCity players go like "hey can we play as the citizens instead" and The Sims was born? 😂

[@mistahl5350]

The original Sims was gonna be just a house/building simulator, but yeah, that idea got added in

[@TJBrumfield]

@@mistahl5350 Yep. Sid Meier had a house fire and lost everything. He had to shop for new furniture and plan out a new house. He thought that would make an interesting game.

[@hulksmash106]

Yes, sims was a big departure from.the original city builder, going from a mass of citizens and an entire city to one family and one house, basically just a down scale. O however want to argue a bigger genre shift that I see no one else talking about, Mortal Kombat Shoalin Monks

[@oceanbytez847]

@@TJBrumfield If that's not getting inspiration from life i don't know what is lol.

[@spartythespart]

interestingly thats kind of like the story of dungeons and dragons, which was originally chainmail, a massive scale war game. But there were heroes in your army you could level up and equip and someone was like, what if we just ONLY played the heroes? Roleplaying wasnt even really considered at the time

[@Jonathon_Hennessey]

In the original Castlevania games the player would move from room to room fighting monsters eventually confronting a boss at the end of each level. This changed with the release of Symphony of the Night for the Playstation the player could freely explore Dracula's castle but in order to progress would have to use powerups they obtained from defeating the game's bosses. None of these changes seem to have bothered Symphony of the Night any as it became a best selling title for the Playstation and Sega Saturn.

[@cmdraftbrn]

wait til you hear about the sega version that lets you play as maria.

[@jpfoland01]

And thus the “vania” in “Metroidvania” style games. Though it’s always bothered me that Castlevania gets a shared credit despite Metroid having a handful of games with that style well before Symphony of the Night.

[@sinteleon]

Technically Simon's Quest was also a free exploration castlevania game too, so...

[@AshenVictor]

​@@jpfoland01 It's because the term was actually coined specifically to distinguish the free exploration style of Castlevania games from linear Classicvania games. It was exapted to describe the style of game as a whole later.

[@lc9245]

@@AshenVictor yep. Then games come out with SotN RPG element in Metroid game design, so Metroidvania ended up describing the entire package.

[@Invinzible001]

It wasn't really a shift from long-standing expectations since it was the second game, but the shift from Jak and Daxter to Jak II (exploration fantasy world to dark dystopian industry world with guns) was one of the most impressively smooth transitions of my childhood. Going from exploring this big beautiful world to "everything has gone wrong and I'm gonna shoot a robotic wasp while I try to get home" was a really interesting decision and I want to know who came up with that idea

[@niagargoyle]

I love how Saints Row pivoted from “generic GTA clone” to absurd sci-fi action comedy.

[@kassandra7313]

I think that's why I liked Saints Row 2 so much! You can see both the GTA ridiculous and the kind of off the wall ridiculous they would eventually be known for

[@mapphew1995]

@@kassandra7313 Exactly! They had some serious stuff in there and they counter it with shooting poo out of a truck at people!

[@ShadowLion20]

Thats why I prefer the saints row games to the GTA games. The goofy, nonsensical stuff while committing crimes is fun!

[@lizardguyNA]

And it's better that way. Though I would not complain if they toned down the super hero stuff if they ever revisit the series, I don't hate 4 or anything, I just think another one like 3 would be a good edition.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

It peaked hard with the second game. Everything after that was a mistake, including the DLCs for it.

[@Roariken1]

In the Persona series, the life simulation parts the series is known for wasn't added until Persona 3.

[@Raguleader]

Wasn't that also when they dropped the Shin Megami Tensei branding from the original game series Persona spun off from?

[@ddjsoyenby]

yup also the dating sim elements.

[@AICW]

@@Raguleader No. The series was still being called Shin Megami Tensei as late as Persona 4. It was really only with the P4 spinoff games that they dropped the SMT brand.

[@ironicdivinemandatestan4262]

@@AICW Also, the Japanese versions of Persona never used the Shin Megami Tensei label.

[@ARUCARDFTEPES]

@@ironicdivinemandatestan4262 Right, 3 is actually where they added the SMT label. The original was supposed to be part of a series called "Revelations", the only other game I remember hearing of in the series was on Game Boy, but don't remember the name.

[@azuredragoon2054]

In the background, if you listen REALLY closely, you can hear their phones going off to indicate text messages anytime they say a pun. And you know that the message is from Andy going "Boo!"

[@Patrick-Phelan]

From: farrantula ellen just chcking all sorted for stream ths wk? meet on slack 1hr early for biz strat discussion. ps BOOOOOO

[@EGRJ]

I'll update the list of things not to ask OX members about: Mike: Cars Andy: Yakuza: Like a Dragon Jane: How to dispose of a body.

[@phoenixcierebiej9763]

Luke: Dinosaurs and music

[@DirgeTV]

Ellen: Kingdom of Alumar

[@cagecrawford103]

Definitely don't talk to Ellen about Marston's death in RDR.

[@barnabusdoyle4930]

Ellen loves to talk about her first playthrough of horror survival video games. Never be afraid to ask

[@ryanchurchill5081]

Pretty sure the random fighting games belongs to one of them as well.

[@cellmax55]

Super Mario 64... instead of linear levels, weak enemies and princesses in other castles, it allowed you to explore the one castle and travel to different worlds in paintings. On top of this, it was the first 3d mario game and allowed some freedom with how you played the game

[@SackVegasAnime]

But it wasn’t really a hard pivot. They went back to the old format many, many times afterwards.

[@cellmax55]

True, true

[@jasemkhan50]

I don't think that previous mario games had linear levels and weak enemies.

[@spartythespart]

Also i feel like going from a 2d game to a 3d game isnt that much of a change, mario often had an 'overworld' where you would select a level and then beat it. Almost every mario 64 level was linear and the castle was just the overworld

[@kaldogorath]

@@jasemkhan50 How many times did you go from 1-1 to 1-3 directly in the first game? How many enemies took more than 1 hit to kill?

[@bethenhiemer]

Ellen's "bound to change" line is pure perfection.

[@Michael_Lindell]

18:05 Jeez, she really cycled through those puns...

[@kaushtubhchauhan]

Towards the end i was two tired to care

[@cmdraftbrn]

coaster locked right through them

[@bleees1637]

I was geared up to enjoy this video, but these puns derailleured me

[@rocstormmc]

Yeah but i think the chain puns were Link's favorite.

[@dustydan4961]

Oh, for God's sake guys.........pull your brakes on these puns before it's too late.

[@Rodrigo-ei4ht]

What's great is that Andy only started playing the Yakuza games like 2 years ago (I don't remember when just that it was fairly recent and time is a blur rn 😂) and fell in love with them. Pretty sure the karaoke was a huge reason why

[@maxvel0city906]

Luke and Ellen are such a wholesome team, which makes it even funnier when we hear them swearing up an absolute storm in a video.😂

[@juunidesu12]

We really do need to monitor how often they hang out around the Eurogamer crew ...

[@anarchagustus5046]

who tf is ellen?

[@Pro_Butcher_Amateur_Human]

Both channels as a whole are usually very family friendly. It makes the rare times they swear or are otherwise rude a lot funnier. I nearly choked on my own tongue laughing when Jane in one livestream quiz game came up with the perfect solution for a hole in your jeans - Paint Your Taint.

[@TheNerdyOrganist]

The Jak & Daxter Series changed quite a bit, too. The first game was a collectathon like Super Mario 64 or Yooka-Laylee and then the series changed dramaticly. The main character learned how to speak and Jak 2 turned into a GTA Style Game with 3D platforming elements.

[@amokriinprolgiid3409]

I'm not sure I'd compare Jak 2 to GTA, but yeah, it was certainly a big difference. However, I think the reason it wasn't included was because it wasn't a long ongoing series that had a sudden change partway through. There was just one game that the sequel was very different. And the third one was pretty similar to the second one, but more vehicle heavy.

[@DeadDancers]

And then became a racing game

[@boltstrike2787]

I'm not so sure it did work. I mean Jak didn't really continue much longer after. I would much prefer a game structured more like the classic 3D collectathon platformers than the bland open cities of the GTA-esque open worlds.

[@j0njn]

For how long did Ellen have to listen to Andy talk about Like a Dragon to avoid being fired? Also, does Saints Row pivoting from GTA-clone to space- and Hell-adventures count?

[@oriolgonzalez9328]

That's not really a "genre" change as much as it is a thematical change.

[@daviddaugherty2816]

The list just said "hard pivots", though. Seems like it fits to me.

[@insaincaldo]

Kinda odd, how they thought steering hard into the satire, would take them away from where GTA was going.

[@Skyfighter64]

I think it went on about the same amount of time as Andy had to put up with Ellen's love of "Kingdom of Amalur..."

[@ddjsoyenby]

yeah.

[@AlchemistoftheSea]

Not going to lie, that first view of the Capital Wasteland upon exiting Vault 101 is a moment that will stay with me forever.

[@RedSpade37]

Amazing, for sure, but for me, the first time I saw Tenpenny Tower off in the distance on max settings... wow, I remember thinking "Well, this is as good as graphics are gonna get!" What a world.

[@joeschmo3844]

“Actually making a Zelda game about Zelda” Not in our lifetime, Phillips ruined that idea for the foreseeable future.

[@rage_2000]

It’s The Legend of Zelda, not necessarily The Legend about Zelda

[@intergalactic92]

Aren’t all Zelda games technically about Zelda in some way.

[@SapphireDragon357]

@@intergalactic92 Most but not all. Link's Awakening for example.

[@LeoStaley]

I like to imagine that it is the legend of Zelda because the story was told by Zelda and made into a game.

[@lizardguyNA]

We can play as her in Hyrule Warriors though. Question is then, Magic, Tech, Rapier, or Ninja?

[@jameswaumsley7701]

The Dynasty Warriors example is an interesting one, because in Japan there wasn't a genre shift - it's just a different series. In the west, the name value was used to help marketing, but in Japan the first game was called "Sangokumusou", while Dynasty Warriors 2 was called "Shin Sangokumusou", Dynasty Warriors 3 was called "Shin Sangokumusou 2", and so on, with the numbers being out by 1 compared to the west ever since.

[@rpgaholic8202]

That "series" change you say is like saying Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros. are two different series.

[@scottlil01]

I don't think Ellen needs to worry about being sacked for the puns in this video. If making puns was a sackable offence, then I think she would have been sacked a long time ago. Her job seems safe, thankfully.

[@Ceece20]

Booooooo

[@NivMizzet89]

It might still be wise for her to stay away from sacks, fire and boots, however. Just in case poetic retribution becomes popular.

[@thel1355]

So what you're saying is that she won't be PUNished?

[@Ceece20]

@@thel1355 booooooo boooooo boo!

[@Amaritudine]

Ellen and Luke have certain privileges when it comes to word-play. A special dispunsation, if you will

[@DissociatedWomenIncorporated]

You could count when the mainline Mario games became 3D. They played almost completely differently to their predecessors, yet are critically acclaimed.

[@TizzyLento]

Hmm... GTA3 comes to mind. Not only did that change up the series but it revolutionized the whole industry. I think an argument can be made for Mario64 as well. That a game pivoted the franchise so hard that it added a whole third dimension to the platforming :)

[@Chris_Sizemore]

GTA really should of been on the list. When was the last time you could just steal cars in a GTA game and sell them without a mission to steal a specific car? But yeah, going from top down 2D to 3rd person 3D was big, and the game play totally changed. It set the bar for open world gaming.

[@Zoso14892]

Like most of the games in this list GTA 3 wasn't a pivot that shouldn't have worked so much as a natural progression / initial ideas finally realised. That's not to say they weren't a pivot, or that they weren't instrumental to games as we know them today of course. Surely I'm not alone in thinking that most of these design shifts should have worked provided they were well implemented? Although with the annual release of CoD and other, similar games maybe shaking things up is more effort than it's worth. I should say I'm not against this list, I just don't agree they shouldn't have worked for the most part. Hindsight and all that, but back in the day playing GTA 1 or 2 I always wanted it to be 3D.

[@mattyt1961]

There are a few missing that could have been in here (GTA, Mario 64) but they seemed to have focussed on a complete shift rather than a natural progression (Zork went from text adventure to first person adventure game) or simple shifts in the players persepctive (GTA, Mario 64), Location (Saints Row), where as some of these completely changed up the play style (Fallout, final fantasy) or something completely different from the normal way of playing (Metroid's control scheme was different from other FPS).

[@flaetsbnort]

The original GTA games _were_ 3D, they just didn't seem so because of its weird topdown camera and 2D sprites.

[@GideonGrimmGaming]

Glad to see a series like Dynasty Warriors getting some much needed love and attention.

[@horseoftheinvisible499]

Oh, the second half of "Metroidvania"? They thought of just calling the genre "Metroids," but needed a name with more bite.

[@Sableagle]

Good choice, then. That "n" gives you something you can really get your teeth into.

[@azuredragoon2054]

They just needed another life-sucking enemy that's (usually) only featured in end-game bits.

[@Carrr92]

I thought because -vania part because the type of platform backtracking is similar to castlevania

[@4stringsnomercy431]

@@Carrr92 Now that's a Whooosh

[@stefanroelofs1619]

@@Carrr92 that is infact true. The -vania part does come from Castlevania. Metroid and Castlevania games both had backtracking platforming and/or skills you needed to find/unlock to progress further and unlock new or hidden sections of the game. And so the term 'metroidvania' was born.

[@luc8254]

I think risk if rain is one of the best examples of this, from 2d to 3D and with a mass upgrade in quality, which was already pretty good in the first version

[@cloudstrife532220]

No mention of Jak and Daxter going from a collect-a-thon platformer to open world sandbox?

[@Venn364]

From wholesome brightly coloured platformer to an angsty dystopian shooter with a far darker colour pallet. I swear I got whiplash moving into Jak 2 after playing the original

[@aviatorcap]

This was the first game I thought of! Jak1 was bright and fun with goofy enemies, and then in the opening cut scenes of Jak2 Jak gets kidnapped and brutally tortured and experimented on for two years.

[@AlmightyPolarBear]

The game-play didn't change as much as the theme and setting did.

[@cloudstrife532220]

@@AlmightyPolarBear That is true.

[@Cohult]

That "Things are bound to change" pun shut my brain down for a solid minute while I processed it. Freakin' amazing.

[@supersparerib]

Last time I was this early, Oxboxtra thought it was gonna be just one session of DnD!

[@DarkMaidenFlan]

I picked up fallout on a whim in 2008. I saw Bethesda on the title and thought hey they made that oblivion game that I absolutely adore! Didn't regret my decision at all.

[@AlphaScorcher96]

The things-are-bound-to-change punchline unmade me. Thanks.

[@gruggerduggerhoose]

You could almost say the “penny dropped...”

[@Agamemnon2]

Likewize. Am presently unmade. Send help at earliest convenience.

[@JT_Lich]

@@Agamemnon2 I know a good healer who can help you out. Don't worry, they take recognition and respect as payment for their services.

[@TheWretchedOwl]

Same.

[@mar_speedman]

I forgot to mention my boi, Jak! Jak and Daxter was a fantasy sci fi platformer about a boy so pure of heart he wouldn't speak. The sequel was a gritty platformer shooter where Jak not only got a complete attitude makeover, but got the ability to transform into a monster as well. Not only did Jak II shift its mechanics quite a bit, it's tone changed drastically!

[@crows2808]

It hasn't aged well, but Duke Nukem 3D was a huge departure from the previous sidescrolling Duke Nukem games and it did incredibly well at the time. And I suppose GTA is well known for a similar shift, although from an overhead view. No longer with us is the Descent series. Fly a ship through a series of claustrophobic mines owned by our capitalist overlords while destroying robots. And then comes Descent Freespace. Fly a ship through open space in a full fledged galactic war against an unknown alien enemy. So good it was, the sequel just called itself Freespace 2 and Descent only got one more title before retiring forever (more or less). And then Freespace also retired forever because they were both owned by Interplay, mentioned in this video.

[@devinspencer1678]

Descent Freespace was such a great game. Such good dogfighting.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Ah, thanks for mentioning FreeSpace, good sir/madam!

[@EdgyShooter]

Stepping out of the vault for the first time in fallout 3 still has to be one of the coolest game moments ever

[@AlphaWolf411]

I've got to take time out to appreciate Ellen's "bound to change" joke

[@marcosdheleno]

13:15 the funny thing is, ffxii IS turn based, its basically the same ATB that ff 4 and onwards(up until X) had, the diference is, you can move to position yourself. but you still have to wait for your gauge to fill before any move goes out, same for the enemies. i still find it funny how many people never realized that.

[@aidantrautsch327]

16:50 HELLOOOO! Echoes of wisdom . Babyyyyy

[@microgosling6862]

Plants vs. Zombies: Garden Warfare is a good contender. Going from tower defense to third person shooter is a huge jump, but it worked great.

[@I_LIKE_TATERZ]

Really good point

[@michaelandreipalon359]

True, but I still prefer the very first PvZ game.

[@AlmightyPolarBear]

I wish we got another like the original. They just stick with the multiplayer team battle games.

[@poppijoni]

When GTA 3 came out, I first thought they made a huge mistake with the "generic" third person perspective. The top-down view of the first two games felt like an integral part of the charm. Turns out it was I who was mistaken; loved the new gameplay from the start.

[@DJChrist2006]

And you could still play it top-down if you wanted!

[@heinokunzelmann8967]

If you've ever played the newer Yakuza games, you'd know that the series before 7 had a lot of RPG staples. Rabdom battles, grinding for money, unlockable skills, equipment with RPG-like stats. So, while it was surprising at the time, in retrospect it makes a lot of sense and doesn't seem like that big of a shift from older titles. It should be pretty telling that the devs managed to overhaul the core gameplay loop just a few months before release, most of the mechanics were already there

[@lukenukemson2231]

Jak and Daxter. The first one was a platformer collecting game like banjo kazooie. In the second one they gave you a gun and said "have at it."

[@AbyssalMerc]

to quote Daxter: "that is the last time I ever, EVER, touch any more stupid precursor crap!"

[@DeadDancers]

4th game then became a racer

[@SvenElven]

Idea: Seven fighting games that had realistic hit noises like “slap”, “clap” and “bop”, instead of “BOOM”, “POW” and “CRACK”. Can’t really think of any though..,

[@DreadYgKuma]

*UFC has entered the chat* *Kratos has entered the chat*

[@dhotnessmcawesome9747]

I'll help, but first I'm going to need a more clear definition of "fighting game" as that's a VERY broad genre from Smas Bro's to MMA/boxing sims.

[@superscatboy]

>realistic hit noises >"bop" You know Adam West era Batman wasn't a documentary, right?

[@DreadYgKuma]

Fight Night: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@SvenElven]

@@superscatboy If you hit someone in the torso, 'bop' is a pretty realistic sound for it.

[@JustinLeeper]

Puzzle series Picross - my favorite - did pretty good when it replaced the 2D grid with a 3D cube to chisel puzzles out of.

[@brandonnorman3680]

You should do one thats the opposite, games that failed after changing

[@intergalactic92]

Which would be great because then they can talk about that other Metroid game that no one talks about (Other M).

[@bilateralrope8643]

The Dawn of War games could go on both lists. DOW1 and its expansions were pretty standard RTS games. DOW2 moved to be more of a top down RPG. DOW3 tried to change back to an RTS, but did a very bad job of it.

[@TigerofRobare]

Oh SimCity Societies, we had such high hopes for you. Now you're not even part of the series anymore. The reboot ended up being a poorly done Cities: Skylines clone.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Mortal Kombat, Tomb Raider, Saints Row after the second game (though opinions vary), Sonic the Hedgehog (again, opinions vary), Final Fantasy post X (though XII could be an exception), and Medal of Honor post-Airborne could count here.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

DoW III is non-canon for a lot of us, and we prefer to end things on DoW II: Retribution. THEY SHALL NOT FIND US WANTING!!!

[@SenpapiTT]

"..much like someone handcuffed to a roll of coins, things are bound to change." this line is great

[@ShapesWithoutColors]

I was scrolling through the comments while watching the video, and I was reading this comment right when she said it.

[@ikijiigoku]

The "Things are bound to change" line was perfection. Bravo Ellen Rose. Perfection.

[@Gustav_Kuriga]

I love that Final Fantasy and Yakuza were mirrors of each other, one going from turn-based to real-time, and the other going from real-time to turn-based.

[@Gustav_Kuriga]

@@falsnamae3511 I don't know, XIV seems to be doing pretty good. Pretty sure the other ones did well as well. XIII was the fastest selling one up to that point, and XII wasn't much worse at sales. The metacritic reviews put them all over 80% ratings, besides the PC port for XIII which had more to do with the port than anything else. I think the issue you're having is that a change was made, and you doggedly refuse to accept that any change could be positive or at the very least just as good. From what I've looked at, both XII and XIII did amazingly well, reviewed very well, and weren't these "catastrophes" you think of. In fact XII did about as well as its predecessor, and directly inspired Dragon Age: Origins to boot.

[@MrDudeshutup123]

Saints Row radically changed from 1 & 2 being similar to GTA with some humour to the off the rails insanity that was 3 & 4

[@ddjsoyenby]

agreed though there were hints of the absurdity in 2 though 4 went "f it"

[@mattkennedy9308]

Yeah. SR2 was a semi serious gang simulator with wacky mini-games. SR4 went full bore humour and meta-references. I do sort of miss the activity cutscenes. "We dont want you to hurt anymore, but let's be honest.. They're porn fans."

[@Skyte100]

I liked 2 and 3. 4 might as well have been a Prototype game and I don't like it.

[@eviljesus84]

18:04 - that WAS actually a staple move of any real-life Yakuza fight in the eighties and nineties (or, at least, a fairly common one - what with there being so many bicycles around)

[@Jskid666]

"Much like someone handcuffed to a roll of coins, things are bound to change" Genius, Nellie!

[@creativedesignation7880]

The pun game is especially strong in this one and I love it!

[@genieooofuzzy4181]

literally have been watching for years and Ellen; you've out-pun yourself.

[@noddler217]

Price including VATs. Now that's the pun.

[@FirmSoul4]

Shame the company couldn't Handle Ellen's puns. In my opinion she makes or Brakes Oxtra and while I love Luke, I honestly think Ellen's additions truly make these videos beSpoke. She's just Wheely fun to watch. I hope she's able to find success when she Peddles her wares on her personal channel. I'll see myself out.

[@thecommonman9524]

Booo! Boo.

[@Chernobog2]

I feel like it should be noted that Dynasty Warriors is actually a spin off of the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms strategy games. What we know as Dynasty Warriors 1 is known as Sangokumusou in Japan, and what we know as Dynasty Warriors 2 is called Shin Sangokumusou, so it's more like a spinoff of a spinoff (of a game based on Chinese literature loosely based on Chinese history)

[@rcb5432]

I want to hear Andy's full opinion on Yakuza Like A Dragon.

[@annana6098]

I'm surprised he didn't interrupt Ellen halfway through the entry.

[@RavenZahadoom]

@@annana6098 They recorded that bit when he was on his lunch break :)

[@davemckinney6555]

@@RavenZahadoom that's really, really funny..., and probably true.

[@Amaranthyne]

This should be a video. Maybe a let’s play...

[@Minilena]

Long-form video essay signed Andy Farrant, about Y:LaD and the rest of the series? Sign me up!

[@Skarry]

Yakuza LAD is the first in the series that I've played. It's violent but it has so much heart and good vibes that I wish more games would take cue.

[@ryancarter8134]

I didn't like Yakuza Kiwami, i didn't want to read the game, and wasn’t a fan of the combat, but PS Plus had basically all the Yakuza games for free, and I learned that LAD was a Turn Based Game. I played it, I loved the story telling so much that I went back to Yakuza Kiwami and played it, finished it, loved it, and went on to play Judgement, Kiwami 2, 3, and I burnt out on 4. Halfway through it. I'll probably return in a bit, I still love the games. I think they're some of the best video games ever made. The story is rich and hilarious. I just felt that Ryu Ga Gotoku put their hearts and souls into the game and I love it.

[@Sableagle]

It's not _impossible._ Ellen used to bullseye radroaches with her CZ 75 TS. They're not much bigger than 2 metres.

[@secretscarlet8249]

God of War. Angry Kratos whaling on everyone and everything became over-the-shoulder and deliberate, assisted by a smol boi.

[@andymcp4752]

What about all the different Mario games? I’m pretty sure Nintendo’s Mission statement for Mario games in the 90’s was just that clip of Ross carrying the sofa up the stairs

[@Patrick-Phelan]

I am ashamed to say it took me a moment to get it.

[@N7thegreatspy]

The Vania refers to Castlevania which took a pivot itself when it released Symphony of the Night, which combined elements from Metroid with elements from previous Castlevania games. The genre eventually became named for both.

[@dannielsen348]

While Halo Wars was a spinoff, it was still a radically different game, than the first and was a good game. Dune 2 changed completely from the first and was a progenitor of the rts genre. Both games were very good. You could also have included the GTA series.

[@durhamdavesbg]

Dune 2 wasn't intended to be a sequel apparently. It was a strange case of accidental parallel development, if you can find somewhere that tells the story it's quite odd.

[@dannielsen348]

@@durhamdavesbg Quite true, but that does not mean that it didn't end up as one. Incidental or otherwise.

[@syafiqjabar]

Halo Wars and Gears Tactics were both pretty great.

[@tibi_lares]

Does the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series count? (still turn based figthing and exploration) Does GTA Chinatown Wars for the Nintendo DS count for the matter? (although the pivot is returning to 2D and it's probably just because I did enjoy the game)

[@compositeembryo7186]

Probably better to reference gta 3 for that

[@ladyicondraco]

I enjoyed New Vegas and Fallout 4, but I do really miss the top down, turn-based Fallout

[@Femaiden]

7:32 in all fairness, it might not be Albert Wesker. It "could" be Albert W. Wily. . .those are both Capcom characters and Albert Wily was referenced in Dead Rising 2

[@starscreamsniper926]

5:15 I would have the same reaction as Luke if I saw Zombies coming at me interrupting the loading screen. And I don't swear that much.

[@intergalactic92]

Am I the only one that remembers Spirit Tracks? The one where Zelda is your constant companion (in spirit form) and technically a playable character when she possesses phantoms? Just me?

[@oldhedders]

If we're talking about hard pivots, let's not forget the Panzer Dragoon series which abruptly switched from Space Harrier-style on-rails shooter to (brilliant) JRPG.

[@thelastarcadegamer6655]

I love ff12 and the gambit system, even though most longtime ff fans hate it. It’s the perfect combination of real time action while still including the atb system for some turn based elements, and the gambits allow you to focus more on what’s actually going on, since you can have them heal people after a certain amount of damage or instantly throw say, eye-drops for when a character is blinded. And the fact that like in 10, you can switch the main character out of combat to level up everybody equally, and even just take 1 out in the party to fight

[@grabble7605]

People who hate Final Fantasy not being turn-based are likely the same who said FF8's junction system was hard to understand. They hate a system that doesn't fully pause for them and wait its turn because real-time taxes their brains.

[@mac203782]

Thank you so much for mentioning Dynasty Warriors, they are my favorite type of beat em ups. I kept wondering if anybody else remembered them.

[@DJAB87]

Im a big DW fan but I couldn't get into DW9 at all. Hard to enjoy killing an army by yourself if your enemies are spread too far across a huge empty map with nothing worthwhile to do.

[@star2705]

I never would have guessed that "you can attack a guy with pigeons" might be the phrase to make me consider playing Yakuza....

[@lordofuzkulak8308]

“Even Link had an emo phase” *shows Twilight Princess footage* I think you’ll find that’s his furry phase. 😜

[@insaincaldo]

Must have been into it, he already had one when he had the pink bunny look.

[@Patrick-Phelan]

He was an emo furry!

[@AnanasVert]

The "RE:your brains" title card made me point at my screen saying "heyyy" in glee. Oxtra always on point with musical references ❤

[@kattaylor2919]

Geez, Ellen, what do you have against radroaches? They’re just trying to survive! 🤣

[@PatrickLongblkwhtrbbt]

Well if their survival depends on eating my face that's just too bad

[@michaelandreipalon359]

How about the Cazadores?

[@kodorogames]

4:25 RE: YOUR BRAINS I didn't think anyone would remember Jonathan Coulton in 2021. Great reference!

[@carlsiouxfalls]

After Mario made the jump to 3D, I doubt Nintendo had too much worry about Metroid, and as beloved as Breath of the Wild is, I do recall some bemoaning the lack of dungeons.

[@Mrmjc1423]

Literally one of my least favorite Zelda games for exactly that reason and the weapon breakability, with all the rave reviews I was so excited to play it and ended up being completely underwhelmed

[@tehnemox]

I tried it. Didn't like it. Weapon durability was huge. But more than anything, I played LoZ for the narrative. I play sandbox games for different reasons than that. I rarely finish sandbox games cause too many options without clear direction tends to sidetrack me personally too much and by the time I find my way back to the main story, I'm burnt out. I'm sure it still has a good story and all, but it's not a format I can enjoy for the story. So I guess I will never get to fully experience it.

[@lazyryan3766]

Remember that you can get a free royal claymore from the woodland tower and weapons from the coliseum depending on how many divine beasts you've done every blood moon. But yeah, weapon durability was controversial.

[@danielmiller3596]

Because we had fun in those dungeons!

[@UrbanJediWill]

Came here from Ellen's tweet about how the "bound to change" pun is simultaneously the best and worst thing she's ever written. Was not disappointed. 🤣🤣🤣

[@jekebe4858]

To: Mr. Ethan Winters From: Jack Baker *RE: Your Brains* Hey Ethan, it's Jack, from the office down the hall. It's good to see you, buddy, how've you been? Things have been okay for me, except that I'm a zombie now. I'd really wish you'd let us in. I think I speak for all of us when I say I understand, Why you folks might hesitate to submit to our demands. But heres a FYI, you're all gonna die screaming. I do love the sub-entry puns and tidbits, especially when they reference fun stuff like Jonathan Coulton music titles. (The guy who did the Portal ending songs too.)

[@SapphireDragon357]

I haven't thought about this song in quite some time. Thanks for the nostalgia.

[@louiemarks8501]

I might argue that Resident Evil's pivot started with 4. I mean, okay, first person is kind of a big step, but so was being able to upgrade your inventory, or buy better guns. Hell, being able to free aim was pretty big for me.

[@blitzie66]

worst day and an oxtra upload? amended

[@LucisZ39]

I don’t hear people talk about final fantasy 12 often and talking about it positively even less often. However the battle system did inspire the combat system in a number BioWare’s games especially in the Dragon Age series which I think is neat

[@TheScaredLittleScholar]

“...pivot their precious platform baby into a 3D FPS series” Me, an animator who has never played Metroid: ...Frames per second (/s)

[@WindedLane]

Can't tell if you're joking, because this is the internet and for every sarcastic joke there's someone who's said it being 100% serious. But, she's talking about First Person Shooters.

[@VisiBun]

If there's going to be a future video of this format, I'd gladly cast a vote for Pokemon Legends: Arceus. [Walls of text incoming.] To take Pokemon's usual standard format of "fight a handful of gyms for badges along a series of slow-opening hallway routes and then fight the Elite Four" and turn it into a Monster Hunter-esque zone exploration game with missions, a new format for cataloging Pokemon (individual species capturing and researching instead of just catching one species to unlock all of its Pokedex information), a new turn-based battling format that was based on speed (both Pokemon stat and move type) and not just "one move per turn for everyone" like in the other games, item crafting at stations and in the field, Noble Pokemon taking the place of Gyms, open-world navigation (including gliding, surfing, land mounts, and fast traveling), and overworld Pokemon changes/interactions (including Alphas, space-time distortions, sneaking, non-battle capturing, feeding/luring mechanics, direct threats that could actually hurt/debuff the player directly and not just start a battle if they touched you like in SwSh, etc.) was a very bold move to make, but in my opinion, it all worked together fantastically. And, come on. It funnels into you fighting the god of that universe at the end. You, some kid, get to directly square up to god in the end. The thing that technically created you and the systems that brought you into existence is genuinely trying to attack (and likely just kill) you with lasers, energy waves, meteors, and full-body charges. And, to top it all off... you, the same kid, can catch it, and then cart the god of everything around the region with you like a toy breed dog in a purse. I grew up with the franchise and love the games to death (especially RSE/ORAS, DPPT, and USUM), but personally speaking, PL:A is the absolute best set of changes that I could have ever possibly hoped for. I intently sank so many hours into the game just to do as much as I possibly could in it, since it was a new feeling with all of the aforementioned mechanical changes and more. Honestly, I'm vaguely hesitant to ever go back to the old mechanics just because PL:A spoiled me that badly with its changes.

[@littlebear274]

Arceus was really amazing. I feel like it's kind of overshadowed now by Scarlet/Violet and how polarising they were (some people really liked them, a lot absolutely hated them) but it was just a really solid game.

[@kamen.rider.decade]

0:57 Tax puns are Best puns

[@csharp821]

Thanks!

[@RyanM92]

Good to hear Luke again.

[@alexkuhn5188]

Koei Techmo has to be one of my FAVORITE developers because mowing down hordes of enemies is extremely satisfying.

[@jomama800]

I always thought the legend of Zelda was a strange name for a video game series. Why is the series named after the damsel in distress who’s major contrition to most games is getting kidnapped and having her own powers used against her.

[@monkeyporche225]

I want them to make a game with Zelda as the playable character and name it Legend of Link.

[@mikoto7693]

I’d love a Zelda game with Zelda as the main player character.

[@Oturan20]

@@mikoto7693 W̵̧̢̢̡̧̨̧̢̢̛̛̛̘̳̩͉̰͚͙̻̘̯̱̗͈͖͖͈̼̤͔̣̱͉̳̘͖̙͔̰̼̠̮̹̲̱̝͓̳̤͔̙͈̫̥̘̰̪̥͓̩̱̼͖̜̲͙͙͖̫̓̐̓͋͒̓̍͑͆͑̊͑͒͆͂̄̈́̑͑̒̄͛͒͛̇̒̄̀̔͆̀̀̋̉̊̔̓́͐̌̋̔͑̈́̀̄̈́̃̇́̄̓͐̓͊͘͘͜͜͝͝͠͠ͅͅͅą̷̡̛̘̣͇̲̜̖̜͖͓̩̣͙͚̮̹̼̠͓͈̺͈̼̼̜͉̙̖̪̔͐́̽͛̓͑̅́͒̀͒̄̔̌̀̌̄̿͊̃̾̔̾̿̉̒́̂̃̀́͘͘͘̕̕͘͝͝͝ǹ̵̡̡̨̧̧̺̲̮͚̦̲͕̹̲̬͓̩͈͎̥͙͚̯̮̺̱͖̞͓̪̠̣̰̤̞̲̹͕̻͈̭̫̬͍̣͖͖̏̐̿̒̄̈̔̒͂̾̋́̔̄͊͋̌̕̚ͅd̵̡̧̢̳͓̞̳̱̖̤̻̱̮̳̘̣̼̮͔̯̼͚͉͕̻̳͉̦͚̞̆͜͜ͅ ̵̨̨̛̛̛̣̝̰̞͖̤̳̳̖͌̇̆̈́̈́̋̐̎͋̀̊͑̏͛̆͆̿̂̍̍̆̉̔͌̀͆̀̈́́̀̈̋̋̉̈́́̈͂̊̀͐̏̓̓̌͒͐̋̎̍̌̌̑̇̋͌̿̈̏̚͝͠͠͠͝ỡ̸̡̧̢̢̳̳͎͎̙̩̲͈̳͇̮̖̻̤̫̭͉͎̱̘̹̜̬̱̼̤͍̼̦̼̘̰̱̥̠̦̂̾́̃̏͊̀͂̃̃̀̀̍̒͑̓̉̓͛̄̅̇̒̎̈̽̆̾̓̎̍͐́̈́̀̅̒̆̐̄̈́̑̀͂͂̑̉͊̋̓̕͘͜͜ͅf̵̧̢̨̢̛̝͉͔̰̣̼͉̖͙͉̪̬̪̜̗̜̪͎̖̼̱̪̭̥̠͖͈̜̭̭̩̹̞̹̣̣͊̿̈́̐̔̃͋̔̓̊̾̈͗̍̐̄̓̃́̓̃̋̎̓̌̂̓̀̀̌̉̕̕͜͜͝͠ͅͅ ̸̧̧͕̫̣͈̗̬̼̺̳̖̺̠̪̜͔̪͇͌̈́̓̌̌͌͗̄̏̑̉͜͜͝G̵̡̨̧̧̧̨̧̖͍̰̠̪̜̜̙͈̣̪̲̻̹͕͚͓̯̲͚̙͕̩̝̰̼̼̰̳̟̘̰͚͈̜͈͍̳̺̺͍͎͈͕̰̘̝̮̝̺̪̹̠͇̫̱̤͕͉̠̘̝̼͌͋̉̈́̋͑̊̓̉́̉̾̓̽̒̿̈̇͗̐̈̔̋̒̀͘͘͜ͅͅͅą̵͓̯͙̱͈̰͈̘̣̺͍̦̪̼̟̩͚̪̪̣̭̥̔̌̄̓͑̈̀̂̽̂͒̓̔̃̈́̑̂̀͆̀̊̋̇̿̓̈́̑̑̇͑͊̀̍̾͊̄́̕̕̕̚͜͝m̶̡̢̡̧̢̛̠̗̥̲̱͎͔̪̞̣̞̻̗̙̮̻̩̠̤̜̮̰̘̻͎͈͋̀͛͗̄̓̅̍̓̍͒͛̾̒̐͒̿͑̔̌̆̒̐̒̏̀̎̈́̿̚̕͜͜͝ͅͅe̶̢̨̨̨͇̩̺̻̘̩͉̞̹̤͕̹͔̻̹̠͓͖͕̼̦̗͈͇̯̟͍͙͚͍̞͆̍̍̓̈̾̀̆̏̏́͛̉̇͌̇̅̈́̔̆͘͝ͅĺ̵̡̢̢̧̬̙̝̮̹̫͙̠̝͉̥̠̗̖̫̦͉̰̩̤̟͚̪̳̲͚̬̗̲̥̳͇̙̹̖̮̖͓̭͇̜̫̻̬̈́̎̃̇̑͑̏̔͊̆̏̎͑͐̈́̽͒̔͐̓̐̐̋̀͌̐̋̂̍̈́̒͌̂̅̋͑̂́̉̌̊͊͌͛͋̿̋͘͘̚̚̕͜͝͝͝͠ͅͅͅo̸̢̡̨̡̨̧̨̧̯̮̭͈̭̞̹̪̭͍̰̳̹̼̦͓̣̘̦̭͖̫̗̜̩͇̣̜͙̥͖͉̞̟̼̫̝͚̰̒̃̿͘̕ͅņ̷̧̛̛̲̼̱͕͎̗̝̭͓̲̯͚̩̦̱͎͎͖̼̙̖͇͓̪̺͉̭̳̩̭̗̦̲͛̾̋͑́͊̀̂͑̔̒̓̊̂̓̇͐̊̇̒̌̾̆͐̑̍̈̐̇̈͌̇͘̕͜!̸̡̢̨̧̡̢̧̛̛̱̘͚̦̙̰͔̳͎͍̣͚͙͉̪̭̯̙͕̫̪͖̰͉͍̖̺̺͓̯̯̺̝̗̫͎͙̹͓̱̙̼̰̤͆̀̌͗̋͐̍̈́͊̽̑̑̓̈́̿̿͛͒̐͑̈́͑̐͑̃́̅̀́̀̍̓͊͆̏͒̿̐̓͒͆̈́̚͘͘͜͜͠͠͝͝͝ͅͅͅ

[@semajniomet981]

When I saw Fallout my first thought was also, "First Person RPG", but I've also played the original game (the one developed for MS-DOS/Windows 95), so I know that it was isometric-turn based combat initially.

[@MandA1900]

I can’t believe they didn’t adapt fallout 3 for the PS4! If I had realised they hadn’t before I got a PS4 I wouldn’t have got one, until more recently - maybe, it’s still one of my favourite games

[@michaelandreipalon359]

RPGs are more suited for the PC rather than consoles, you know, though there are some notable exceptions.

[@MandA1900]

I haven’t played any games on the pc for such a long time I’ll have to start again

[@patrickpachal6410]

“Things are bound to change!” Heh. (hits like button)

[@Artificer1911]

14:00 Final Fantasy 12 killed the series for me. I hated the gameplay in that and haven't played since.

[@tilly5008]

Same. I couldn't get my head around it. I had a bit better luck with 13, but the storytelling and pacing was rubbish in both those games to the point I didn't finish or bother playing 15.

[@Umbry_Rose]

I still play FF games, 14 is amazing - though far from a traditional FF game... but 12 is easily the least popular game amongst fans I know. I was shocked when I saw it on this list, then to learn it sold pretty well. I guess more power to them, but I don't get it.

[@mikoto7693]

FF10 and FF12 ruined the franchise for me. I got all the way to discovering the truth of the Fayth and Tidus. Noped hard. I tried FF12 after enjoying FF11 and FF14 as MMOs but I hated Vaan, hated the story was around Ashe and not him. I think I got as far as meeting Fran and noped out. Haven’t bothered with 13 and 15. Never will.

[@omgfattony]

Interesting, music from Prey 2017 in the background around 5:48, when talking about RE.

[@bett431]

Actually I d love it if Obsidian made a Fallout CRPG. Edit: Or a Sci-fi one that changes to a fallout one mid way.

[@99toon99]

I'd highly recommend The Outer Worlds. Might scratch that itch. Edit: Its on gamepass too

[@lnsflare1]

Ys 8: Lacrimosa of Dana is basically an Action-heavy traditional 3D Zelda-style game about Zelda. Or rather, about the titular Dana, who is playable as both a solo character and a super-important member of mostly-silent protagonist Adol Christin's (who is what you would get if all the Zelda games happened to one Link) party, in addition to being pretty much exactly what the hypothetical child of Breath of the Wild's Link and Zelda would be like (despite Ys 8 coming out around a year before BotW). Speaking of which, Ys going from bump-combat to regular action platforming combat circa Ys 3, and going to a single-player team based system for Ys 7.