Taking your realism to the next level: How many PASSENGERS and CARGO to take? | Real 737 Pilot

[@schwappingmags1008]

You are a gem to the flight sim community. Thank you so much for making so much insanely helpful videos!

[@A330Driver]

I appreciate that!

[@Deyan_B_Travels]

This is just one of those things virtual airlines don't consider. They usually have a random dispatcher software which often gives you a few tons of extra cargo to load on top of almost full passenger number. We then put those numbers into Simbrief and there you go... too heavy for landing on arrival and the only thing to do is to circle until you're within the MLW numbers followed by late arrival.

[@timol437]

I guess you are talking European traffic loads...having just retired from a 40 year career as a Boeing pilot for a legacy US arrier I was always amazed and amused at the cargo we loaded in the belly on pax flights. This video seems to dismiss that with the "50kg mail sack comment". I was surprised when I learned pre-pandemic over 70% of air freight was carried on scheduled passenger flights - main reason we kept flying thru the pandemic 'empty'. Depending on the city we'd load a lot of those smiling amazon boxes or overage from UPS/DHL/FedEx. with an assortment of haz-mat to make the manifest interesting. My employer has a dedicated airfreight department that made my profit-sharing check heavier. Also our load factors are quite high with a lot of flights operating just shy of full.

[@countryflyboy8255]

I remember a departure once on a 737-8 out of kmsp in bad weather and heavy pax load. We must have also been heavily loaded with cargo because I swear we took up the entire 9000 ft of runway for rotation!

[@ppolak9]

Always had the doubt about this, till a friend joined a airline and started to bring loadsheets for us, and I would say, they're very similar to those numbers u presented even being in Brazil!! Nice video for those who take realism to another level!!!

[@oliverunruh900]

Simply amazing explanations and insights into the real world operations. I was always asking if weights proposed by Simbrief are somehow realistic. Nevertheless, i will always try to operate on the upper threshold because of more challenging and limited aircraft performance. Amazing video, Emanuel. Keep on going!

[@jasonlemoine2078]

These tutorials are great and very helpful. Thanks!

[@folcaljet00]

I love your content 737NG Driver. Thank you!

[@A330Driver]

Thanks for watching!

[@claudemiropacheco]

Great video. I always wondered about those numbers, and what would be the typical loads. This answers my questions. Thanks a lot!

[@alikarakelle243]

Yeah, the route is a certain factor on the load. I've seen people taking actual sacks full of stuff along with them from Bucharesti to Istanbul.

[@JohnVanderbeck]

Couple questions if I may: 1. The term cargo in context here is kind of confusing to me. Cargo is bags in this case I assume (unless there is a rideshare with actual cargo companies?) But is that actual CHECKED bags? Are carry-on bags considered cargo? Are they instead accounted for simply in pax weights? Also is the 175lbs (IIRC) pax weight in Simbrief the same number used by airlines? 2. Not commercial aviation related, but tangentially related -- if using Simbrief for GA flights, does PAX include the pilot/copilot? I don't know if its just an American/NA thing but nearly every single flight I'm ever on has an overflow of carry-on bags to the point that they have to start checking rollerbags. One of the reasons I always fly business/domestic 1st class. Even outside the sim this was insightful though. Interesting to note how far below the maximums the loads tend to be. On some flights I've actually been concerned that they were getting overloaded - or well not actually overloaded but close to the limits. I guess not though.

[@hancin993]

This is so obvious when you load private jets with simbrief and it comes back with max ZFW restrictions because a normal day in a Longitude is allegedly 8-10 passengers and 600 kg of cargo. I've always adjusted the number so it feels more like what the kind of owner for a plane like this would fly but now I know this also applies to airliners in Simbrief.

[@borna5636]

Another great vid

[@a.nelprober4971]

I love virtual performance tool but the monthly charge model woth resitrictions is a pisstake. * Its really expensive if you do lots of sectors

[@obriets]

On the Payload screen, what is that category for other? It says the following: other - - -/BA - - -

[@MTGeomancer]

I guess every flight in the US is a "Holiday" flight, haha. Almost every single flight I ever take the plane is 100% full, no empty seats anywhere. Overhead bins are always full. Baggage claim at the other end is crowded. I always worry about weights because the average they use is very low (insert fat American joke here) and almost everyone has two full size carry on bags, none of which is actually weighed.

[@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935]

Not going to baggage claim saves a huge wait, you are out of the airport in no time😀

[@crazydudeyt5151]

i normally just click set random on the payload thing in pmdg because you never know how many you will have on board

[@crazydudeyt5151]

depending on my destination

[@Cessna172SNavIII]

I just go off the actual airline’s website depending on the route being flown

[@noway9880]

On one hand, I like how the Fenix pulls the data from my simbrief flight plan. Fuel/pax/cargo. On the other it gets kind of robotic. You wind up doing the same thing over and over. I've started entering my fplans manually rather than using INIT REQ

[@A330Driver]

You'd be surprised how few airlines actually do all those uplinks in real life. A huge lot of them still enter everything manually. Flightsimmers are getting lazy LOL

[@Groveish]

@@A330Driver What about 787/A350?

[@A330Driver]

@@Groveish Same, the airplanetype doesn't really matter there, it's more about the routes being used, etc.

[@K0nst4nt1n96]

Using Neofly i can guarantee there is enough room for bit more freight somewhere.

[@Niko_Dragovich]

Thanks for all your videos ! It's very helpful. 😀 I have a question about the weight repartition. If I have 1300Kg of bagage. Can I put all in the forward cargo or I need to split between Forward and Backward and in this case, how to split them ? 🤔 I never know what to do. 😅

[@S.Tyrannosaurus]

I wish performance tool has a 900er so that I don't have to calculate pax and cargo myself

[@윤성민-q6s]

I didn't know that it is normal that 10~20 people miss their flight. Surprised so many people don't show up.

[@A330Driver]

Same here... I was really surprised as well. Makes it easier to understand why so many airlines regularly overbook their planes however.

[@xyzan]

@@A330Driver This is strange, as when I fly, plane is usually full. But, probably, those are usually popular connecting routes. Like Warsaw-Munich/Frankfurt, Warsaw-Tel-Aviv... Those were always full. Even Munich - Malta was full and overbooked I flew last year... It is so hard to believe, when you are sitting crumpled in economy class ;) But is is very good and valid point. I can change profile in simbrief, so it will add like 20% of lagguage though (insead of 20kg/pax put 4kg - whch will result in statistically correct values)

[@maggou90]

"If you take a typical suitcase and pack it up, it'll weigh around 13 Kg." Apparently you don't know my mom.

[@A330Driver]

I don't know your mom, but I also don't know your dad. And you did will probably pack only 5kg so if you average it out you'll end up at 13kg ;-)

[@delalima]

so in other words when flying from point a to point b , first determine the amount of fuel and then calculate how much weight you can carry ?

[@shaynenofts5166]

I cant imagine anyone traveling without at least one bag. Here in the US everyone has a carryone personal bag and then a suitcase, duffle something for clothes.

[@xkoote]

agreed. I used to operate in the Caribbean, where people travel with rediculous amounts of baggae. So for RyanAir and the like, it’s realistic. For all other airlines in all other regions it is probably completely off. You just have to have an idea and go with it.

[@A330Driver]

Kindly watch the vid before making a statement like that Sam. It's not like I say exactly that right within it.

[@A330Driver]

The only thing that's ridiculous is how you make a statement like that while obviously having no clue what a good landing is. No, you can not make a smooth landing out of this, unless breaching pretty much anything your flight training department will have told you.

[@xkoote]

@@A330Driver Yes, watched the video. Otherwise, I wouldn't comment. And the statement stands. Furthermore, I didn't disagree with the comments in the video. (Even though some numbers I don't agree with.) Quite the contrary. But the statement still stands that the caveat is that the video assumes EU load profile. And the load profile for other regions will be completely different.

[@xkoote]

@@A330Driver Don't see anything regarding landings in this thread. Perhaps it is misplaced?

[@jjwheeler2222]

Idk man me and my girl just went to Hawaii we are normal people both are bags were 50 pounds. Both are carry ones we’re about 30. That’s 160. Plus us it’s like 500.

[@r0xbeat]

But it seems that PMDG always calculates with Baggage Weight. So if I take 150 PAX in Simbrief, with 86kg per PAX and 0kg Baggage and no Cargo, the ZFW does not match with the one in PMDG. But when I add 15KG Baggage Weight in the Airframe Settings in Simbrief, the ZFW is the same.

[@A330Driver]

PMDG takes - if I'm not mistaken - 84kt per passenger. If you add passengers there is NO bags added. You need to load the cargohold manually. This works fine on my side, I don't see the effect you describe.

[@r0xbeat]

Ok, I will try it with 84kg

[@xkoote]

PMDG is 190 lbs for everything but the 747 where it’s 195. The 190 has stuck thru MSFS, let’s see when the 747 arrives.

[@yagomojaes2254]

By default simbrief uses 79 kg per passenger and 25 kg of baggage that is entered as cargo weight on the OFP. I usually change the weight per passenger to 85 kg to account for hand luggage and just 10 kg of baggage to account for some baggage that goes on the cargo bay

[@r0xbeat]

86KG per PAX and 0KG for Baggage in SimBrief metching exactly the ZFW in the PMDG for me.

[@conaly082]

And then there have been pax like me, who went with two full suitcases on a Ryanair flight. But in my defense: my company paid the flight and I had a bit of equipment with me, that I needed for my work and of course enough clothing for a few weeks. Still, probably I was the guy, who paid by far the most for the flight compared to the other pax :D

[@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935]

It must have been lonely in baggage claim.

[@conaly082]

@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 Actually, that I had once on a different flight. Eurowings NUE-DUS. Most pax transferred at DUS to medium/long haul flights, only a hand full went out in DUS. And I was the only one with checked luggage NUE-DUS, so I was the only one at the baggage claim.

[@countryflyboy8255]

I typically fly my pmdg 737 pretty heavy with the swa configuration. But on some occasions I reduce the passenger and baggage payload I find that the plane pitches up and climbs way too quickly after rotation. I am derating and only taking off with auto throttle at around 89% n1. And my trim is set to what the fmc tells me in the tkoff page. What could I do to reduce this unrealistic climb out rate?

[@A330Driver]

Apply a correct takeoff thrust. The PMDG climbs like the real one. Too much thrust and the thing will skyrocket. The real one does as well.

[@xyzan]

I wander, how this looks in CARGO plane? Is it usually fully loaded? what are estimate weights? I understand they can load somethng spacious, but not heavy. Can you somehow elaborate on that, please?

[@A330Driver]

Really comes down on the type of operation in question. Scheduled cargo planes are usually quite full - however in terms of space, not necessarily of weight. For example a friend flying for a German cargo operator on the 777 told me they usually carry some 70t of cargo and the plane is completly full with that. Judging my terms of weight however the 777 could carry quite a bit more, somewhere around a hundret tons. In charter operations they are usually not very heavy as they mostly need to carry a certain piece of cargo. For example the AN225 can carry up to 255t of cargo, but the largest it has ever carried was a boiler weighting around 188t. To take it to even higher extremes, the AN225 was often fully loaded in terms of space used, but that cargo did often not even exceed a hundret tons.

[@StyluzLPs]

Is there such a Tool for the a320?

[@francobobfred]

In real life, all those weights are estimates, at least for the weight of the passengers. I believe the airlines weigh the checked bags so that should be relatively accurate. If after loading all the passengers and you turn around your head to look in the cabin and you see that you are transporting the entire sumo wrestling team I would assume you add would a few extra kilos to the ZFW? In pmdg, the airplane’s ZFW is exact because that’s the actual weight you entered. No estimations on your part. However in real life, the weight of all the passengers is an estimate. If I am wrong, please correct me as I would like to learn. Thank you.

[@A330Driver]

All weights are estimates, 84kg per pax (including hand luggage), 13kg per bag. Airlines only weigh the bags to charge pax in case they're above certain limits ;-) We use the ZFW we get using the above numbers, no changes to be made.

[@teresaweigel3611]

Nice! 💙🌼

[@chiaojian6122]

Hello Sir, I’m new to Flt Sim. Can you share with me which Flight Simulator on the current market that is closer to reality in terms of aircraft dispatching, flight instruments (typically FMS), weight and balance, baggage and cargo/freights loads/TW’s.) weather (ISA, real world wx), navigation (nav1, nav2 ops)fuel loads, of course flt plan, more than two alternate airports setting in flt planning, outside scenery, etc…. I looking forward to using b737-800 and A320 aircraft for study. I’m a ADX instructor and would like to use flight simulator to teach my students how apply flight planning to flt sim software. Long story short, I just want my students to get some first hand experience on how the aircraft dispatching job or process that really close to real world airline operations. I would appreciate all your info share with me. I know there are a few sim softwares like PFGM, MSFS, x-plane etc… which sim is the most realism one and do you know any ADX simulator currently available for training out there on the market. Thx!

[@LuLeBe]

When it comes to msfs and xplane what you're looking for are good aircraft, not the sim itself. They can all provide weather data etc. Everything else you asked for is determined by the plane and do what you should be looking for is which sim has the best addons available for the type you want. The Fenix A320 is probably the best overall. For the 737 there's the PMDG as shown here or for xplane the Zibo which is supposedly great as well

[@chiaojian6122]

@@LuLeBe Thank you so much for your information! Btw, do you know any flight planning simulation softwares that very close to the real one on the market used by most airlines such as SITA/ARI NC/LIDO/JEPPESEN/SABER

[@andreaguiotto7982]

Hi Emmanuel. Is the VIrtual Dispatcher tool you use a free or a payware? And where did you download it from? Thanks!

[@MrOudoum]

It is a monthly subscription. virtualperformancetool

[@A330Driver]

It's virtualperformancetool.net that I use. Best OPT on the market!

[@andreaguiotto7982]

@@A330Driver Thanks!

[@gwalker3092]

Ladies carrying more😂 my mothers handbag weighs a ton and she’s 77 and carries it everywhere

[@A330Driver]

True that, but ladies also weight less than man on overage. That covers the extra handbag and leads to the same average :D

[@ferohora139]

"The average bodyweight of US passangers is 200 lbs...".: FAA ... You should fill the whole plane with kids, make them scream... ... ZIBO has done this much more better...! All or nothing 189/5, 164/5 (five crew members...) I prefer 189 seats configuration, so there could be 189 SOULS on board after crash... You did minimally maximum, or maximally minimum... Yea, so lets throw out some passengers!!! -Totally offense comedy, discrimination...! My another favourite numbers for PAX are 112, 114, 119, 105, 106, 77, 14, 12, 5, 88 (Biblical...)

[@jonashelmke2564]

Huge fan, but I really can't help but beg you to acquaint yourself with the word "fewer".... :(

[@A330Driver]

lol, "always stay positive, don't use negative words" ;-)