Doctor Who: Classic 9x3: "The Sea Devils" Parts 1-3 | Reaction!

[@kierenevans2521]

28:45 Oh look it's Donald Sumpter as the submarine commander. He's previously been in The Wheel in Space and will be in Hell Bent.

[@kemmdog4444]

The children’s program that the Master is watching is called the Clangers.

[@MrPaulMorris]

I always assumed the doorless vehicle was just a way to make things look odd but it occurs to me now (after having seen this many times over the years) that this could have been intended as a security measure around the prison as it (should) make it much more difficult to hide an escaping prisoner.

[@adambesley4455]

I always love the little bit where The Master is watching The Clangers on TV. That also gets a call back in modern Who when John Simms' Master is watching The Teletubbies.

[@josefschiltz2192]

His expression as he goes to switch off is brilliant - as his view of The Clangers goes from mildly fascinated to excrable!

[@FarazIFM]

The Master being fascinated by a children's show happens again in Sound of Drums where the Master watches the Teletubbies

[@kemmdog4444]

The person doubling for Katie Manning was Stuart Fell who also plays a Sea Devil.

[@Darren79]

The incidental music composer was Malcolm Clarke of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop. He was a bit of an oddball and didn't like sticking to the rules. He was using a new synthesiser that was the size of a small room. The director Michael Briant didn't like to just use the regular composer Dudley Simpson - he wanted to experiment. Producer Barry Letts removed some of the music when he felt it wasn't clear if it was music or sound effects. Clarke returned again several times in the 80's.

[@andygozzo72]

this synthesizer was ems synthi 100, nicknamed the 'delaware' from the road the radiophonic workshop was, it was also use to try and make a new arrangement of the theme, but didnt work out well, its on youtube in several places google 'doctor who delaware' ..

[@Finbarzapek]

The guy with the northern Irish accent on the rig is played by Declan Mulholland, who’s best known for playing Jabba the Hutt in a cut scene from the original 1977 ‘Star Wars’. Probably the only actor who’s most famous for a role that got cut from the finished film.

[@andrewbowman4611]

"The BBC wish..." is perfectly fine English. It's essentially the same as "we wish", but referring to itself in the third person. Also, 'wish' in this context doesn't mean a desire to be fulfilled, but rather an obligation that is met in gratitude. Context is key, that's the thing.

[@MrPaulMorris]

It is an example of where an organisation can be referred to in the singular or plural where the latter case implies the members of the organisation. A similar example might be "team": "The team is expected to perform well this season" vs "the team are happy with their performance".

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@MrPaulMorris Zigactly!

[@wobaguk]

@@MrPaulMorris Ive heard this called out on an american podcast before how 'off' it sounds to an American ear, to refer to an organization in the singular. I dont think American english has that flexibility then.

[@whobp8]

Stuntman Stuart Fell fills in for Jo on the motorcycle and in climbing the ladder to the sea fort. The ladder was very slippery and actress Katy Manning is very nearsighted, so they thought it would be safer to use a stunt person in those scenes. The actor playing the submarine captain in this story appears in the modern series as Rassilon in the episode Hell Bent.

[@keithsolley]

Donald Sumpter

[@aidanschannel7183]

Amazing idea! Pleeeeeease start continuous Modern Who reactions alongside the Classics. What a 2022 treat that would be. Can't wait another 3 years or so 😆

[@bananasaregood8655]

Hope you had a great christmas! The sea devils was my favorite third doctor story growin up

[@Darren79]

An amusing titbit about the Submarine model: the FX team bought a toy submarine from a shop and then designed some adjustments - the BBC consequently got a visit from the ministry of Defence or some such department asking how they got access to top secret designs for submarines. 😎

[@kierenevans2521]

12:40 Colour TV wasn't common at the time. It wasn't until the second half of the 70s that colour sets overtook B/W ones.

[@kemmdog4444]

What are you talking about,that was the best sword fight ever.🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@josefschiltz2192]

Very enjoyable! And there were so many historical adventure series around at that time. 'The Flashing Blade' for one. Also serials from Europe in 'Tales From Europe', which were usually Hans Anderson. Brothers Grimm, etc. Seeing sword fights was pretty common. Didn't blink an eyelid seeing The Master and The Doctor engaged in one. Almost expected.

[@kemmdog4444]

@@josefschiltz2192 It isn’t the Doctor’s first or last sword fight.As you might know.😊

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@kemmdog4444 Quite! All highly enjoyable.

[@kemmdog4444]

@@josefschiltz2192 I totally agree

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@kemmdog4444 Especially the story where the Doctor says, "Do you mind not standing on my chest? - My hat's on fire!"

[@glenmcculla6843]

Now I really, really want to see a story involving Francis Drake vs the Sea Devils.

[@ItsShaz1]

Me too

[@kemmdog4444]

Sounds like a good Big Finish story.

[@richardlemin7840]

Glen: I looked up my reference. They were actually called The Sea Dogs. But still a story I would like to see! ~ Dad

[@ItsShaz1]

This is one of my favourite Pertwee stories!

[@ftumschk]

Mine too. I loved the novelisation also, and read it countless times.

[@ItsShaz1]

@@ftumschk it’s one of those episodes that I go back to rewatch and the sword fight between the Doctor and the Master is just so silly, I love it.

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@ftumschk The one with the black logo and the Chris Achilleos cover illustration? Grabbed it for 30p from the school's 'bookshop' as soon as I saw it - my ulterior motive for volunteering to wheel it out into the corridor by the dinner hall when it was started by our English teacher.

[@ftumschk]

@@josefschiltz2192 That's the one. I bought my copy of "Doctor Who & The Sea Devils" at the Longleat exhibition in 1974/5, and read it from cover to cover on the car journey home :)

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@ftumschk Ugh. The bookshop was open at lunch period and I had to wait until bed. I could only flip through, see the marvellous interior illustrations, then grab lunch and back to afternoon lessons - annoyed! Others, though, same as you. Cover-to-cover on train or bus journeys - nose buried in a book, whilst supposed to be gazing at the countryside - according to my mother! After all, they were our only resource at the time. The novelisations and comic strip versions, like those in TV Comic , later, Countdown and then TV Action. Finally, DWW and DWM - that when I was at college. Videos over a decade later!

[@theevildalek5425]

Dudley Simpson was the show’s regular house composer for the 70s but for this story, because the story’s budget was stretched thin because of the extra filming & assistances of the Royal Navy so they couldn’t get him to do the music for this story. So they hired John Baker of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop to do the music for this story. But then before recording, John Baker became ill so he couldn’t do the music as well. So, they got Malcolm Clarke of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop to do it. Malcolm Clarke music is very abstract and unworldly, but is regarded as one of the best Soundtracks in the shows entire history, even getting played at the BBC Proms in the Royal Albert Hall during the Doctor Who Proms. Obviously music os objective, especially to Modern Millennial eras, but to many it is extremely atmospheric, sea-like and experimental

[@alexthehunted]

The sea devils wear those nets because the director didn't want them to be naked on screen

[@RoundTheArchives]

'The Sea Devils' notes : Episode One: Viewing figures = 6.4 million. Chart position = 76. Episode Two: Viewing figures = 9.7 million. Chart position = 26. Episode Three: Viewing figures = 8.3 million. Chart position = 45. . Transmission dates : 26 February, 4, 11 March 1972. Studio sessions : November 1971. Studios : TC8. Working title : 'The Sea Silurians'. The episode of 'Clangers'* that The Master watches is 'The Rock Collector' ("An astronaut arrives to collect rocks, but falls in the soup when Tiny Clanger startles him"), originally broadcast on 25th April 1971. *Everyone should watch 'Clangers' if they really want to understand British culture. The broadcast of Episode Two included a summary of what had happened in Episode One as power cuts were still affecting various parts of the country. The production team had a visit from the Ministry of Defence when their model of a submarine coincidentally proved too close to the secret design for the Polaris subs for comfort... As noted earlier, 'The Sea Devils' was recorded before 'The Curse Of Peladon', but broadcast after it.

[@kierenevans2521]

16:40 Yes, I think the last ep of Sherlock is a fairly obvious 'homage' to this one.

[@sirsamfay99]

Great to see veteran actor Edwin Richfield play Captain Hart in what must be one of his last roles before he dropped acting in favour of selling caravans !. His long career in acting on British film and TV usually cast him as a criminal or high ranking plain clothes police man ,but his versatility saw him play many parts in leading roles and bit parts too.

[@Tyrconnell]

Edwin Richfield carried on acting almost until his death in 1990. In fact he will be returning to Doctor Who in 1984, though he won't be recognisable.

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@Tyrconnell I remember him turning up in a number of adventure series in the Sixties, amongst them an appearence in 'The Avengers', though I can remember if he was a villain - and got beaten up by Emma Peel or Tara King - or a detective.

[@Tyrconnell]

@@josefschiltz2192 He actually appeared in a single episode in each of the 6 series of The Avengers. I would have to watch the episodes to check, but he may have had the pleasure of being beaten up by Venus Smith, Cathy Gale, Emma Peel and Tara King. Lucky bugger.

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@Tyrconnell 'Girl on the Trapeze', 'The Removal Men', 'The White Elephant', "Too Many Christmas Trees', and 'Dead Man's Treasure', - so far anyway from The Avengers Companion book. Had to pack it in as knackered. I suspect Edwin was too!

[@MuchWhittering]

Yeah, there's a single, 2-part pure historical in Davison's era. I quite enjoy it, for what it's worth, just because it's so low-stakes in comparison to all the other world-ending threats that permeate through that era. Pertwee and Baker do have some trips back to the past at least, albeit with aliens and monsters. So fun thing about this story, the sub in this story, which is just a model made by the props team, strongly resembles a real British sub which was highly classified at the time, and the production team actually got contacted by the military demanding to know who had leaked it to them. Also, the navy extras here are real navy guys working at the base they filmed at. The show that the Master is watching in this story is an old kids' show called the Clangers, fairly popular in its day. I've never watched it myself but it does look very weird. It's referenced in The Sound of Drums with John Simm watching the Teletubbies. 19:01 In British English it is common to refer to corporations in the plural. The BBC are. Nintendo are. The government are. I know it can sound weird to foreign ears, but to us, it's equally correct to treat them as singular or plural. I suppose it comes down to the idea that technically you're referring to multiple people, even though an organisation is a specific entity. I believe "programme" only refers to TV shows, and the computer term uses the "program" spelling still. I learned French and I was briefly a French teacher, and yeah, French spelling is awful. In the 90s, German-speaking countries actually had a spelling reform which made their spellings easier. It basically just amounted to making things more consistent, and it's a lot better. Of course, plenty of older people still use the old spellings, but young people, and anything official uses the new ones. Italian is very good with spelling too, that's fairly consistent.

[@josefschiltz2192]

A friend of mine visited The Black Forest area - where he grew up. This was in the Eighties. Even then, he said, his German sounded antiquated and regal, as if he was putting on airs. He was born in 1957!

[@glenmcculla6843]

I see your Cholmondley pronounced 'Chumley' and raise you a Featherstone-Haugh pronounced 'Fanshaw'. Nobody has been able to explain that one to my satisfaction.

[@josefschiltz2192]

I suspect it will mostly boil down to the linguistic version of 'energy efficiency' - some parts of a word get glossed over, then lost, if they're a bit of a mouthfull for the speaker - plus the accent of the speaker(s) so the 'oh' and 'ah' sound become switched or even a speech impediment - whilst the spelling has remained the same. Just recalling the little dialogue about generational slippage of the pronunciation and/or spelling of names between Tom and Lalla in the - appropriate for the subject at hand - 'State of Decay'.

[@richardlemin7840]

@@josefschiltz2192 Joseph and Glen: One of my favorites in how Americans pronounce Worcestershire. It usually comes out as “War-sester-shy-er.”~Dad

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@richardlemin7840 Ha! When, in fact, the 'Worces' rhymes with 'puss' - as in pussy cat - then 'ter' - as in "er . . I've forgotten the question!" Then 'shire' is pronounced as in, "Those stockings are so incredibly sheer!" Worcestershire! Of course, the last syllable differs with the accent. Jodie Whittaker, from Huddersfield, would pronounce it " . . sha!" If I'm recalling her accent properly.

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@richardlemin7840 Mind you, according to Joyce Grenfell, the French call their cats, "Pew-see".

[@richardlemin7840]

@@josefschiltz2192 Isn't that also how Sean Connery pronounced Honor Blackman's character's name in "Goldfinger"?

[@kierenevans2521]

Archival Holdings PAL colour: 4-6 NTSC colour: 1-3 B/W telerecordings 1-3 The DVD release uses the RSC versions of eps 1-3, the Blu-ray release might overlap this colour with the telerecordings. The PAL copy of ep 5 has/had a nasty scratch on it which led to the NTSC copy being used instead for a few years including on the VHS despite a restored PAL version being made.

[@kemmdog4444]

Alex,you might recognize the submarine captain as Rassilon in Hell Bent.

[@josefschiltz2192]

oH MY GOODNESS! It is!!

[@ftumschk]

Programme used to be spelt "program" in Britain, but it was "Frenchified" in the 19th century for some reason. As to the simpler American spelling of many other words, some doubt has been cast on the idea that it was to save ink and/or money. It's not as if a financial motive needs to be posited, given that a number of American words preserve spellings which were once used in Britain, only to be dropped. This phenomenon in itself accounts for many variants between "British" and "American", and we also have to consider moves to standardise and simplify "American" by Noah Webster and others... ideas which were largely based on common sense, not economics :)

[@richardlemin7840]

ftumschk: Another American/British difference - “spelt” in the states is a grain (related to wheat). I’ve never seen a Yank use any other configuration than “spelled.” ~Dad

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@richardlemin7840 But, do Americans say 'dealt' - as in "He was dealt a blow"?

[@richardlemin7840]

@@josefschiltz2192 : Yes. 19th century American literature occasionally has "spelt," but it's almost nonexistent today.

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@richardlemin7840 Curious that - I find at least - because 'spelled', in AE, has a drag to it, whereas 'spelt' In UKE, is a sharper, clipped sound. Again, I suppose, recognising the RP/BBC/Upper class accent which, to me, is more economical because in 'spelled', in AE, after the double-L sound, you have to drop down and emphasise the 'der' sound at the end. Then, butter, in American English, has morphed almost into a 'D' sound, so 'budder'. Say, for instance, Bruce Boxleitner's accent.

[@jonathanmurphy3141]

Your early comment, relating plot idea to Fury from the Deep,...and, the actress, June Murphy, who was the terrorized and subjugated Mrs. Harris, returns as Officer Jane Blythe, in Captain Hart's office. :) Yes, stunt double for Jo, climbing up the fort ladder, was - a man! Stuart Fell, who did stunts in Who between 1971 and 1983, and still living today. Stuart was a modestly shaped fellow, and a gymnast, but not the physical shape of Katy Manning,...also appears as a Sea Devil, doing films and jumps when they are hit by explosives.

[@josefschiltz2192]

Now then, I'm one of those 'mad' people who's a great fan of Malcolm Clarke's incidental score. Possibly in the minority. Entering this reaction with a certain degree of trepidation and curiosity. Alex and Richard; which will you be? For or agin? Last time it was the much beleaguered choice of the crumhorn. Now radiophonics - which, if I remember correctly, ended the RW's connection with the show for the time being! I love it. 'The Sea Devils' wouldn't be 'The Sea Devils' without it. The whole thing was released on the 'Doctor Who: The Music' vinyl over a half decade later. Jon's in his element aboardships, Katy is very - extremely! - obviously replaced by a stuntman in a climbing sequence - Jon is easier to imitate and - oddly enough for such a sporty chap - hated heights! Much, much happier speeding along in any craft available and there are classic sequences between Roger and Jon. The Silurians and The Sea Devils also made it into freebee press-out 'n' stand 'em up figures, which were free with Nabisco's Weetabix breakfast cereal cakes, on sale in the early Tom Baker period. All very well drawn too.

[@ftumschk]

I'm a big fan of Malcolm Clarke's score, too, and of experimental electronic music in general.

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@ftumschk Yes, I recall you saying so. So I suspect, like me, you have quite a few records, tapes and CDs collected.

[@kierenevans2521]

The score is...interesting in this one.

[@AmyWarriorPrincess]

I always thought the Sea Devils were adorable because they always looked like chihuahuas, to me.

[@josefschiltz2192]

But, imagine a chihuahua with the face and the size of a Sea Devil! Possibly alarming!

[@joshuajoshua2732]

According to Peter Purves who played Steven previously the Historical episodes got lower ratings than the sci fi episodes which is part of the reason why they abandoned the pure historicals all together.

[@TheZodiacz]

Ratings tended to be all over the place but The Smugglers did have the worst viewing figures of all Hartnell's stories. But the second worst of series 4 was Evil of the Daleks! On the other hand The Romans was Hartnell's 4th highest rated story. For Troughton The Highlanders rated more highly than Tomb of the Cybermen, The MInd Robber, The Invasion and The War Games! Probably more to do with time of year a story went out, quality of individual script, actors etc.

[@alexthehunted]

This in a way is the silurains again but with the master element

[@josefschiltz2192]

The Master is very adept at manipulating people's weaknesses, that they themselves view as their strengths! As for The Doctor, officials, as usual, don't take him seriously, partially because of his appearence, his name dropping of Horatio Nelson being "a personal friend" and that he just appeared, without going through channels and made himself a nuisance. I loved the swordfight! Alex! Malcolm Clarke's score is "odd" and "Techno!". . Sacrilege! BTW: Tara King in 'The Avengers' DID carry a brick in her handbag, as witnessed in her first episode, with Patrick Macnee, 'The Forget-Me-Knot'. The children's tv programme 'The Clangers' was on the BBC, the last five minute posting of the children's television slot - usually around 4 pm - 6 pm - just before the 'Six o' Clock News'. The Clangers were filmed in their creator Oliver Postgate's home studio - I think a converted garage!

[@joshuajoshua2732]

This story is considered another popular one. I disagree with your opinion about the sword fight between The Master and The Doctor i didn't find it stupid at all i found that to be one of the best scenes I also think the music with it matches the scene yeah it's goofy but goofy in a good way nothing has to be perfect all the time or serious that's the thing I love about Classic Who is the goofiness that sadly NuWho lacks is not enough goofiness I'd love to see another sword fight between The Master and The Doctor again in the future which is another reason why Pertwee is my favourite Doctor because he's the only Doctor who's a fighter a karate man I also like the Sea Devil's design I think they stand the test of time. The programme that The Master is watching on TV was a popular children's show at the time called "Clangers" which he mistakes them for real extraterrestrial beings he would later do the same with a Tenth Doctor episode "The Sound of Drums" watching Teletubbies. There's also behind the scenes silent footage of this story on KZbin and DVD. Jon Pertwee served in The Navy before becoming an actor.

[@alexthehunted]

Timing!

[@davidwheatley9058]

The music from this sounds as if they let a cat walk on a synth keyboard. It's still fun though. The royal navy make some cameos towards the end in the battle scenes and they are clearly very excited to be there.

[@trentmacdonald6283]

Sounds like someone failed French class

[@7thHourFilms]

I'm pretty sure I got a B. Maybe a C. I did pass but it's been about 2 years.

[@josefschiltz2192]

@@7thHourFilms Don't say "Si", say "Oui!" (;-)

[@alexthehunted]

I think around 4th doctor would be a good time for you and your dad to also watch new who since by then most of doctor who is established by then also new who will be a nice break from bakers era which is really long

[@flaggerify]

I thought this story a bit overrated.