John Riley on Nature vs Nurture, How Students Have Changed, Making The 1 O'Clock Lab Band, and More

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Chapters -
0:00 - what does John think about nature vs nurture
5:20 - did John ever think twice about the drums as a career path?
8:24 - what happened during John's "magical summer"?
12:12 - why John doesn't like to use written music if he can avoid it
18:18 - John's lesser-known influences
21:27 - how structured are John's practice sessions these days
24:54 - did John reach a point when he felt mostly confident?
28:38 - how have John's students changed in 20 years
36:33 - what's changed about John's teaching approach
The last lengthy conversation I had with John Riley before this interview was probably when I was still a college student. That’s why it was super rewarding to catch up with one of drum teaching’s deepest thinkers, and pick his brain about a great many things I’ve experienced and thought about in the intervening years.
John and I begin by discussing nature-vs-nurture, when I ask him about a passage in his first book. That kicks off a thread about John’s own musical journey, whether he ever thought twice about drumming, and what really happened during what I’ve come to think of his “magical summer”, between his freshman and sophomore years at UNT, after which he won a seat in the prestigious One O’Clock Lab Band, and a teaching position at the end of the year.
John also holds forth on the importance of curiosity to guide practice, and why at a certain level of experience, it can be good to practice abstractions even if they don’t directly affect your day-to-day playing.
Finally we speak about how students have changed in the 20 years since I was his student (I feel ancient writing that), and how his approach to teaching has changed. (Of course I can’t avoid bringing up Whiplash.)
Like many of my guests, John was extremely generous with his time, and didn’t hold back on his thoughts. I’m sure you’ll enjoy this conversation.

[@goseeaboutagirl]

No "middle class" of musicians anymore. You're either a star or struggling. That's deep and true.

[@joshuavalentindrums]

Johns honesty is admirable, both as a person and as a musician. I feel he never tries to be anyone or anything except for the best drummer and musican he can be. And his lessons and conversations are just like that. I learn a ton every time he sits down to talk to anyone.

[@user-hn9hu8rm5g]

Master technician, master teacher, master drummer. And a really nice man. He took the time to answer a random email question from me. Thank you both!

[@elvislegg8634]

Talent is simply how fast you learn. Nothing more, nothing less. I've taught some people who are incredibly fast learners and seem to have a high degree of natural physical coordination, and some who are hopelessly slow. But none will be anything great without hard work, dedication and discipline.

[@toddberg4404]

This was awesome!! I'm going to watch it again right. Congrats to you, Nate, for the well-deserved, high praise from Mr. Riley: "I catch you 80/20 often and I really appreciate what you're doing." Don't we all!!! Thank you.

[@LmthCologne]

"Things don't develop along a straight line" - so good to hear this from someone that accomplished! Haven't heard any better and more down to earth answer to the nature-vs.-nurture dilemma. I have wasted so much time dreaming of own exellence vs. being disappointed of not being there. Today I realize: continuous work and passion do it the best. It's the way itself one should love and celebrate, not the goal!

[@qclibre546lkj]

I’m studying with one of John’s old students so this is really interesting! Thank you !!

[@lundbergdrums6642]

These interviews you started doing are fire man. Great original content

[@paradidd]

Great interview Nate! John is a great man, I was lucky enough to study with him back in 1999/2000. I took 8 lessons, as he was too busy to do an ongoing thing at the time. He helped me IMMENSLEY. It's like he reached in my brain and flicked a switch that needed to be flicked on. I'll never forget it. Happy New Year and thanks for doing this.

[@MrBarryhutch]

An important subject, I’ve certainly wrestled with this not feeling like I have the “gift” of my drumming heroes, and feeling like I’ve got to practice 10 times harder than the “gifted” drummers to achieve a level anywhere close to them! It really does seem to me that some (especially child prodigies!) progress Way faster and easier the the rest! But for me, slow progress is better than no progress!😃 (PS I’m a big fan of Riley he’s been a huge inspiration)

[@ernestoramirezmondragon3066]

Thank you for this interview... really knowing more about John makes me value him and his teaching more and that I have decided to dedicate myself to teaching, teaching that has indirectly reached various parts of the world, as in my case in Mexico. Where I try to teach all of John's school to my students.

[@Jath2112]

Imagine seeing an info graphic showing everybody he has influenced, etc.... heh.... its impossible to imagine... so many people have sat alone working on his books... etc... the first few pages of Art of Bop Drumming very literally changed the rest of my life as a drummer... heck, 20 years later and I still like to sit down and play those playalong tunes... work through a page or two... I wonder how he really feels about that... it's got to feel pretty good.

[@alexko8504]

Mr. John Riley was my most fortunate discovery in my searching for how to approach playing the drums. He's my game changer. Simple, concrete and clear. And what a generous human being. Thank you, both.

[@ghyogi1]

The clarity of thoughts coming from mr.Riley is the thing which is only second to his vast drumming knowlege.I mean the guy educated few generation of players.Great to hear him talk and salute to you 8020 for a good guest selection.

[@debexspacecadet6586]

Im not a musician but i love listening to people of talent talk about their craft and how they continue to work on masteri g and challenging it to create more.

[@stuartsmith5146]

NATE!! I might guess that by the time you finished editing this video, you felt complete and satisfied with this one, and that I don’t have to tell you that this was a very grounded and broad interview. There’s quite a lot in this interview that I resonate with deeply (I’ll spare the details here) but I believe that beyond my personal experience, you stayed present with and for some very resonant conversation. Good job, buddy.

[@Labatterieparlimprovisation]

Thank you Nate. John Riley is the kind of teacher everybody wants to have. It will never happen to me but I have his books and your podcast 🙂

[@thomasnussbaum4711]

The last topic about the student/teacher relationship resonates deeply. Starting out with the practice course Nate asked for some playing examples to diagnose my playing. He found a lot which was crucial to work on but he did it in a very motivating way that it didn't frustrated me... I've only wanted to dig in and work on it.

[@billhd]

A generous teacher is such a gift.

[@philipmcevoy7206]

I love your drumming vids as there's lots of assorted drumming knowledge to gain. Top marks🥁

[@Simonewhitesim-1music]

Beautiful. So many Parts of this interview hit home and Also Inspired me. Thanks, Nate and John. R.I.P Aaron Spears.

[@twanner_]

Killing with these interviews my guy

[@benguise3595]

Thank you so much for sharing this interview! I've owned a couple of John's books for a long time and it's very...comforting to hear him say that he's still working through new stuff, learning all the time, and practicing things that are "kicking [his] butt."

[@LarryNagel]

I really enjoyed this. The questions weren't just the same old, same old; they prompted John to discuss some things I haven't heard him talk about before. John is a really special teacher and this interview highlighted many of the reasons why.

[@rodolfoferreira]

What a great interview! 👋🥁❤️

[@onesyphorus]

congrats on the interview!!!!! BIG W

[@webstercat]

The Best story is John setting in with Dizzy. Dizzy being the great person and musician he was made a bad situation good. Nice content.

[@thechangeups]

love these interviews!

[@drumhanger4908]

Just stumbled across your podcast (I subscribed). Really nice interview and always a very insightful John Riley. Gotta love John's room draperies too, they look like cymbals!

[@LoadingSet7]

Amazing episode ! Thank you so much, Nate

[@bobkreizel596]

So much great, straight forward wisdom and perspective for anyone at any level. Thanks Nate (& John).

[@renardvert]

Very interesting conversation. Thank you!

[@edsoph7006]

Fascinating interview!

[@BrianH020]

Very much enjoyed that conversation, Nate.. 👍😗

[@florianschnurr6015]

Great Interview!

[@jonashellborg8320]

wow! Jam packed with good stuff! I have to watch it again. I was late to find John, coming from rock and metal into drums, soon as I got his book The Art Of Bop Drumming I was sold. Great experience and skills with excellent explanations, that applies across music genres. Nate, I love these interviews you’re doing, this one was amazing.

[@flipwazabe]

Great interview! thank you

[@Rogersdrumvideos]

That was phenomenal.

[@briankeith7463]

Great interview - inspiring….a legend like John Riley, still working as hard now as he did back in the day…

[@Jay-Go]

Dude, this was an excellent get. JR is so articulate. I was hoping I'd cross paths with him when I was studying at North Texas, but that never happened. But I did play through his books.

[@johnreilly9748]

Great conversation I like the concept of trading to learn and the concept of abandoning the chart to just play and of course to absorb and learn the music to memory!

[@jazzhole8208]

Thank you 🙏

[@FrederickJohnSebastian]

Great interview. Hearing the teachers perspective was very interesting and thoughtful

[@marceugeni]

Bro amaaaazing!!!!! Thankyou!!❤❤❤

[@Drummin4jesus1]

Great interview guys! Thank You Both! So much information talked about but the one thing that hit home with me was this. With all the information we have available to us today via the internet I was finding myself working on a particular thing and I knew I had to work on this everyday but then I take a break and decide to watch a drummer on line and he says, check out this cool easy to learn fill. The next thing you know is I am writing down the fill and giving it a try when I need to be working on my own lesson. When this happens you wind up learning a lot of stuff that never really sounds great including the lesson you were suppose to be working on.

[@pdbass]

Loved this one, Nate. As a teacher, such great information here. Thank you. 🙌

[@IsmiseEireannach]

John is super educational in every aspect

[@ignacioperezdelcastillo3182]

Gracias

[@mphase7575]

The point about missing the type of immersion we could experience before music streaming is something I think about often. I used to buy a cd and wear it out. Now, there's just too much stuff to check out with Spotify, etc. Gotta take the good with the bad, I guess. Edit: He mentioned Aaron Spears, and I literally found out he just passed away right after watching this! So sad!

[@brunoroy2665]

What!!!😮

[@panplayer]

Any idea which Hermeto album he was talking about? The one with Thad Jones in a big band setting?

[@gogoPan23]

23:00 , nice

[@paulstamas]

You should chop this interview up and release 10min clips and shorts like I see a lot of podcasters do 🧠

[@kirbyhurst]

Wow !!!

[@The1aMatt]

Yes a person's nature makes a difference. This is the reason Amadeus Mozart was able to write his first concerto at the age of six or seven. The rest of us have to deal with practice.

[@Nagroddy]

Good to hear John Riley credit Ed Soph. I feel that Soph never really got his deserved recognition for his playing.

[@8020drummer]

he was the biggest influence on me when it came to brushes, and I've always given him credit

[@scottstruif3939]

The only drummer I’ve ever heard that I thought truly “improvised” was Tony Oxley.

[@8020drummer]

“The only person I’ve ever heard who I thought truly spoke off the top of his head was a guy raised by wolves who never learned human language”

[@scottstruif3939]

@@8020drummerJohn Riley said in another interview that there’s no such thing as “improvisation.” It’s just piecing licks together.

[@laquerhead024]

Dude.. interviewing some heavyweights now eh? So great!

[@filipkasprzyk9564]

❤❤

[@downbeats41]

Nice, didn’t know you studied with Riley. Do you know Chris Smith too?

[@ignacioperezdelcastillo3182]

🎉🎉

[@russellesimonetta9071]

Uhh, I rarely used the drum book for big band. I,d read off of the trumpets or bones. the sax line was too far away. I liked Jake Hanna too! I never try to play like buddy. too much drum battle style. I loved Buddy with harry James. He soloed great but without the tunes that were for highlighting Buddy.

[@MajickToastBand]

Aaron Spears just died btw