A.B.I.torial: How Fatalities Kill Mortal Kombat's Narrative

[@Eggs5232]

Let's just say every single match ever outside of story mode was against Shang Tsung

[@dotal212]

Tsung*

[@Eggs5232]

@@dotal212 You got it chief

[@memaythink9697]

Actually, this works amazingly well. Like, it's just the kind of ridiculous logic that might actually work in the world of MK and it gets rid of all the uncomfortableness of Fatalities. It also adds a whole new dimension to all of the character interactions, like, might this line be Tsung actually wanting to manipulate a character in a certain way? This idea is really cool.

[@jl2351]

that’s single player，but what about online matches and local battle

[@muntu1221]

But we already know there's a multiverse and alternate timelines. I just assume, if I was going to assume anything, that none of it is the "real" situation, just one way of many possible interactions.

[@relyk.mp4]

Characters: let’s do some sparring Characters again: *VIOLENTLY KILLS OTHER CHARACTER*

[@Mutough]

Bring back friendships. Ed Boon during the build for MKX said that family fatalities would have cool special interactions but that didnt materialize

[@SugarPunch]

I would have loved to have seen what that would have been.

[@Mutough]

@@SugarPunch maybe that's why there werent any allies in the beta

[@Mutough]

@@SugarPunch maybe that's why there werent any allies in the beta

[@ramsey276]

Considering the pre-fight dialogue between them, that could work now, like a non-lethal "marital venting" toward Cage...

[@zfrometa8316]

Still won't stop people from doing regular ones

[@novriltataki]

"This is not a Mortal Kombat channel. Fellow weebs, this is the last video about MK, I promise" -A.B.I., 2 days ago

[@StellaEFZ]

It's never over

[@waterdog737]

It's ok to talk about MK as long your mainly a gaming weebs channel. It's ok if you cheat every once in a while. just as long you remember where your bread n butter comes from

[@SugarPunch]

Several itches needed to be scratched. We will now return to our regularly scheduled screen direction workshops/character design analysis/bumbling through game plots.

[@arch5701]

@@SugarPunch I hope you're still going to review MK11 when it's out. I love your MK vids!

[@Kilesfactor]

lol reminds me of Plague of Gripes talking about how he's not a dragonball channel

[@pbk6623]

*looking at the poster* This isn't a brutality THIS IS A FATALITY

[@jmrivero1910]

AWYSALAJSKAEEEEEEEEE

[@anibalrodriguez2626]

Crocodile Dundee?

[@sageky]

dun Dun Dunnnnnn!

[@flamewolfscout3978]

I know MKvsDC is trash, but frankly, I think it has the solution to this problem: Have Fatalities be the result of a spontaneous and overpowering burst of rage, like some kind of spirit or deity or force or whatever is temporarily taking control and forcing the character to perform the Fatality. That was, you can keep the relationships all the same, but still allow the various deadly endings to matches by basically having it be out of the characters' hands. You wouldn't even have to do much extra; just include a brief animation if the character expressing the sudden rage and add a basic fiery glow effect to their eyes.

[@alexcampuzano2001]

That it's a great idea.

[@ryszakowy]

the funniest part is that MK vs DC isn't the worst mortal kombat since MKX and MK11 dropepd.

[@axelwust9376]

Technically, that could actually circumvent the original problem perfectly, in where a battle is suddenly turned into a death match. Kinda dark too. But then again, it's MK

[@thegamerfe8751]

@@ryszakowy Bro must be tripping if they think MKX and 11 are worse than MKvsDC

[@ScorpionTheMaster]

@@thegamerfe8751 gory finishers dont equal to a better game, and 11 is easily one of the worst mk games

[@Beastosterone]

Best part is when Johnny will post a reply on the picture of his daughter holding up his lifeless body. Truly consistent story telling. Ps. As far as I'm concerned anything goes outside of story mode

[@pokeluis2002]

They must have some sick internet in the afterlife

[@smokey3504]

Sure anything goes, but it's bizarre watching two characters joke around and flirt before one rips the other's spine out through their ass and turn their head into an ashtray. Canon or not

[@johngr1747]

But there's still the "joke, joke, murder" SP talked about

[@Saiyanryu]

The closest thing to remorseful killing in MKX gameplay: Johnny Cage: *does a Brutality on Sonya/Cassie* Also Johnny Cage: *sarcastically* "Oh no, I didn't. 😎"

[@ringkunmori]

Tf2 is best in that regard since everyone is caapable of working with each other but don't hesitate to kill each other, and it's all in character.

[@memaythink9697]

It works in TF2 because every character was established from up front to have no specific familial or friendly relationships, but just being a bunch of mercenary psychopaths. A lot of MK characters were never afforded that kind of forethought, which is why we're stuck where we're stuck.

[@unintentionally_edgy5867]

@@memaythink9697 hey so about that lack of outside connections…

[@Fenrize]

@@unintentionally_edgy5867 I never took what happened with Spy and Scout in the comic as explicit proof of them being related. Spy certainly didn't act like a relieved father when he realized Scout didn't die after all, more like he was annoyed he went through that whole Tom Jones routine for nothing and knows Scout will never shut up about it. Scout has 7 brothers, who's to say his mother isn't just sleeping around? Until Valve outright confirms it I'll remain doubtful

[@ryszakowy]

@@Fenrize since medic admitted to stealing their souls and selling them to the devil AND the fact that they are either oblivious or ignoring the fact that they are actually respawning every time they die i'd say spy just wanted to comfort scout in what he thought were his final moments. spy above all else is a gentleman and has a sense of comradery towards the rest of them.

[@Fenrize]

@@ryszakowy Exactly that, Spy doing something for Scout that could be seen as a form of kindness and/or a way to comfort him when he was dying. Telling him his father was actually his greatest idol Tom Jones and he would be seeing him soon considering Soldier snapped his neck lol. It doesn't really work out as a dna test. Even if Spy is frustrated by Scout's antics 99% of the time he does have some sort of a soft spot for him just as he does for the others in his own way, like you said.

[@DJack276]

For Johnny Cage, we can say that it's all part of a movie!

[@Cizma77]

Everyone Johnny fights is just an expendable stunt double or a stand-in

[@smokey3504]

...A movie about him brutally murdering his wife with his bare hands...

[@ryanm.8720]

@@smokey3504 Maybe that's why they ended up divorced.

[@Fenrize]

@@ryanm.8720 Till death do us part

[@The4thSnake]

It always shocks me to remember that someone at Sugarpunch knows who I am. Interesting subject, as usual. You could have ended the video on Majikura getting mad about YET ANOTHER MK video and doing a quick fatality on you. It would make some kind of point, I think.

[@SugarPunch]

I actually made this video first. Even WE can't do timelines properly =(

[@gothamcitygoon2491]

You two are like peas in a pod so I'm not surprised in the slightest you know each other.

[@The4thSnake]

@@SugarPunch When can we expect the pseudo-reboot where Magikura just rehashes his old harem anime reviews with half the effort and twice the praise?

[@Suvraj-ls1kl]

The4thSnake hey what’s up man. when’s the injustice 2 review?

[@The4thSnake]

@@Suvraj-ls1kl I'll be getting back to it after the next few videos.

[@felman87]

4th Snake does some excellent analysis of story modes and "wasted potential". I don't think there's a person alive who knows more Mortal Kombat lore than he. Not even at NetherRealm themselves.

[@Nick-cg5hi]

felman87 he thinks the 3D games don’t feel clunky

[@tmerchead1]

Plenty do pnd ketchup ,History behind the warrior ,etc.

[@kuvettepekmez2684]

he really loves nitpicking

[@valentinom.4292]

Tabmok 99

[@WeedShaggy]

I enjoy 4th snake but the real expert of MK lore is Tabmok99.

[@KaitouKaiju]

Yes. MK is supposed to be disturbing. Gameplay and story segregation is good in this case. There's a reason you can't do fatalities in Story mode, where the narrative matters most.

[@memaythink9697]

I think this level of disturbing wasn't intended by the developers, more like they just never thought about the consequences of adding certain story elements. I mean, NRS is probably one of the most flippant and "do whatever we want" kind of companies when it comes to this sort of stuff

[@ColorMeDoubleZ]

@@jpeterman6538 this has nothing to do with that, quit projecting

[@KaitouKaiju]

@@jpeterman6538 Who said anything about titties? I didn't, so fuck off and complain to someone else

[@KaitouKaiju]

@@memaythink9697 Even as far back as the first games you have friends, coworkers, people who grew up with each other killing each other in all manner of ways and it's been like that every game. I don't see how that's any different than Goku destroying the planet in every DBZ game

[@Written_in_the_Starss]

Yes Mk is supposed to be disturbing yet they made the sexy females to wear hijabs.😂😂😂😂

[@jwilsthem.c3780]

in previous Mortal Kombat games they had this thing called friendships where you wouldn't have to kill the opponent you could just humiliate them in some way it would be nice if they brought those back I guess.

[@DWolf2099]

It's also optional to do the Fatality, and they already said before they don't think it would work for how serious they're taking it now. That is why there are no Babalities in MKX or MK11 MK9 was the last one

[@JOfJaZ]

ah yes, humiliating someone by handing them a cake?

[@alexhardline2208]

@@JOfJaZ or asking them to buy a Sub-Zero doll

[@spookson5679]

@@JOfJaZ some are humiliating

[@Hambo325]

@@DWolf2099 I mean, now that we have it, it's not that bad

[@redskared8093]

Easy solution? Bring back Friendships for MK.

[@memaythink9697]

Still doesn't fix the fact that people will be butthurt over having their agency to do fatalities away.

[@iota-09]

@@memaythink9697 just make it optional then v['-']v

[@ShadowSumac]

@@memaythink9697 Butthurt is justified. Why the fuck you take my options to do whatever finisher I want for the sake of "narrative" outside of the story mode, where nothing really matters.

[@ShadowSumac]

@Luke Wilson Now that's the only solution for this "problem". Which is not a problem at all, just one guy trying to prop himself by criticizing famous series with inane nonsense.

[@DWolf2099]

There is already an interview about this. And the reason why Babalities are not returning

[@HenryXLII]

In my head canon these kind of fights take place in a simulation. That’s why the characters are so chill about murder. This is backed up by the training stage being a big simulation room,and characters appearing in endings even if you brutally murdered them on the way to that ending. It’s basically the characters showing “this is what could happen to you in a real fight.” It helps that all of the characters this is an issue for hang more on the good side and are aligned with Earthrealm’s forces. Quran Chi killing Shinok or Tanya killing Mileena can’t really explained.

[@austinreed7343]

I’m well aware that it’s too late, but they’re adding friendships back.

[@LazyPirate8]

They still fucked it up though. I thought friendship are suppose to be a way to bury the hatchet with your opponent. Most of them doesn't do that. Except malena with katana.

[@ryujisama]

While I can see your point, I feel your argument is rendered moot simply because of the existence of the game's story mode, in which characters routinely fight each other as part of the narrative; however nobody dies because fatalities during the story are disabled, and the only time when they do die is when it is explicitly seen as to move the story along. Hell, in the beginning of Mortal Kombat 9's story, after Johnny Cage fights and beats Barraca(sic?), Shang Tsun commands Johnny twice to finish him off, and Johnny's like, "What? I'm not gonna kill him..." The only thing I can say here is you need to separate the "what-ifs" of Arcade Mode with what's canon in the series' Story Mode.

[@memaythink9697]

It's not about it being canon. It's about just the "story" that's being told within the fight. Don't you think it's jarring to see two people be friendly and a minute later brutally mutilate each other, regardless of context?

[@ryukenxx2]

@@memaythink9697 That's only if you do the fatality which most people stop after a while.

[@ryujisama]

@@memaythink9697 To be honest, yes; but it's what we've come to expect from this series. Sure, it's a bit unnerving to watch two people who are related/on friendly terms with each other fight each other to later have one of the two brutalized the other in cold blood. But as far as this affecting the narrative, I still disagree, because I already know that there is s canon storyline where even if the two were to fight, unless it's part of the story, one won't kill the other. There are even times after a story fight where if two friendly combatants fight each other, the winner will often express regret for having to fight a friend. And again, since Arcade Mode fights are "what-if" scenarios, then I also have the knowledge that I don't have to use a fatality/x-ray move if I don't feel like it. And regardless, at the end of the fight, I can comfortably know that the other person I just sliced in half is not permanently dead, and will not affect the story.

[@MekanikKommandoh88]

Me MayThink Not at all. Because it’s a fucking fighting game. If we go too far down this rabbit hole, then we’d have to limit which characters can actually fight each other.

[@tyrellesmith9265]

@@memaythink9697 I really can't understand this complaint at all. Like what is the solution your looking for? All these brutal finishers are optional. If you are that concerned about the narrative preservation in an online fight or arcade tower fight you can always just not use fatalities. Nothing is being foisted on the player and none of it is cannon. Don't want Cassie to take a selfie with her dead father? Don't use that finisher. The only real way to "fix" this is to limit who your allowed to use fatalities on which would seriously piss off a ton of players who just want to kill people with Sonya or Johnny Cage in a fight and don't care about whatever narrative in that specific fight is being presented.

[@InchonDM]

Oh hey! And now it turns out, putting these fatalities together is LITERALLY TRAUMATIZING THE DEV TEAM! How about that!

[@vinylvids2011]

Crazy right!!! I mean should we really be surprised though?

[@UltraEpicLeader10020]

damn. I miss the days where all it took to be counted as a fatality was just ripping somebody's head off with their spine attached or just giving them a cartwheel kick followed by an uppercut that sends their ass to the ground.

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

I don't think ABI's argument about the previous fight interactions holds up in light of the fact that not all, if any of them are canon. For example, in one of Takeda's interactions with Scorpion, Hanzo states that he's rejoined Quan Chi, yet this never happens in the actual storyline.

[@memaythink9697]

It's not about it being canon. It's about just the "story" that's being told within the fight. Don't you think it's jarring to see two people be friendly and a minute later brutally mutilate each other, regardless of context?

[@jeggsonvohees2201]

@@memaythink9697 That's just it though, it's the "story" within the fight. That's not part of the actual story in the game, hence why some interactions contradict what is seen in the story modes. There's also the player to consider. Regardless of what the intros are, the characters are not making choices, the player is. They don't choose to fight, the players do. Fighting matches are not part of the actual story, and don't narratively conflict. That's why it's not jarring, because it isn't two friendly people fighting, but two players trying to kill each other. Now if two characters in the story mode were friendly and killed each other, then there would be a conflict of character, because within the world of the actual story they are making narrative choices.

[@it_me_lui]

even if they aren't canon, its still jarring how they break character so easily, the anime fighters mentioned in the video also don't have every fight being canon but they react accordingly to their opponent especially if they had a significant relationship with each other. may and johnny fighting wouldnt be cannon in guilty gear but if you choose to make them fight the game gives you some plausible reason and conclusion to their fight that makes sense to their what if situation meanwhile in mortal kombat, while they do give good reasons for everyone fighting, them ending in fatalities is a big immersion breaker for characters that have significant relationships with each other.

[@memaythink9697]

@@jeggsonvohees2201 The whole aspect of player interaction is a complicated issue that we don't have the time to discuss, so I'll simplify - all of the choices a game gives to a player need to be thought through and considered, because they all reveal to a certain extent the game's intention, be it wanting to be a cool brutal mindless kung-fu simulator or whatever else. Even if MK wanted to be just "lol video game no logic" about it, giving the player a choice of doing these Fatalities can kinda break the player out of the "yeah, this violence is cool!" mood and into "wait, this is actually kinda psychotic" mood, regardless of how little they'll want to think about it.

[@BKphanom]

@@memaythink9697 or, how about you just stop trying to sound like a 300iq intellectual, and just realize that its a fucking game with a finisher mechanic

[@goddamnarshia]

Jojo taught me one important life lesson. Don't think about it

[@quintoonartt]

Found the JoJo comment 😂😂 JoJo fans unite

[@meterothecrow6270]

It's what kakyoin would do

[@Dabajaws]

Sono chi no sadame

[@dancingiguana2309]

It just works, a wise lesson taught to us by Araki.

[@harima9597]

Araki forgot!!

[@narutorasbat]

A.B.I.: "What began in MK9..." Mortal Kombat Deception Konquest mode: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@zaden9009]

I see that as a MAJOR NITPICK, since normal battles in MK are non-cannon (,Even Ed Boon on his latest interview said that no playable MK11 character would survive a bullet through their head except for Raiden). The interactions before battle are just a cutsie thing to reference something that wouldn't fit to the story mode or SOMETIMES to hype you up before fighting. That's why there is no option to do a Fatality in story mode unless it's going to be cannon.

[@degisndinga8853]

That statement Ed said a joke fyi

[@solidfisher9798]

He should go back to his kid friendly anime and not complain about mortal kombat. He sounds like a polygon article come to life

[@FraserSouris]

Zaden Kyo Takagi Except as, he points out, does limit the potential of storytelling in games like this. Declaring parts to be non canon in the end while the opening seems consistent doesn’t flow well. Any other fighting game could have interesting dialogue both timed which makes each fight feel like it’s own story. You can’t really have that with fatalities so it’s a trade off. Also, even non canon, the implications are kinda horrifying

[@RainyBankai]

@@FraserSouris it's a game

[@engineerheavy1344]

Fraser Souris yeah ok let’s get rid of fatalities, also dont you think spilling blood over a minor disagreement is too much? How about they just sit down and talk over a cup of tea and you have to time button presses to not spill your tea while sipping it? Or even better, how about they just go to therapy to learn about how to accept differences in the world around them? What you’re saying is completely stupid.

[@dpthefish6221]

You don’t have to do the fatality though, it’s an option for rubbing it in their face that you won, it’s not technically “canon” just like certain dialog with certain characters isn’t always canon

[@FraserSouris]

DPthefish Except as, he points out, does limit the potential of storytelling in games like this. Declaring parts to be non canon in the end while the opening seems consistent doesn’t flow well. Any other fighting game could have interesting dialogue both timed which makes each fight feel like it’s own story. You can’t really have that with fatalities so it’s a trade off. Also, even non canon, the implications are kinda horrifying

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

@@FraserSouris You still don't have to do fatalities. Its a choice.

[@shindean]

@@IkeOkerekeNews you also don't have to play the story mode to enjoy the game, it's also a choice right? But if I'm going to be paying $60 or more for this product, I want to use the content.

[@shindean]

Not doing the fatalities is an option, like winning a fortnite match and not doing a dance. You're not obligated, but there is still something personalized about it which is why you want to do it and why you invested your time and money to do so.

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

@@shindean Not sure what the problem is. If you don't want to do fatalities, you don't have to do them.

[@danshiba1498]

You get two characters who when they're introduced they all like " hey friend do you want to train? Yeah sure!" By the end of the match one if then rips fhe head off the other

[@mistergremm735]

I don't think necessarly that you all wrong, at the same time you're not really forced to use fatalities they are optional, you can go and finish the match with simple knock out, it doesn't have to end in death, While it's completely understandable that having an option to kill fighter thats related to you does come off wierd it is afterall video game and like you stated *"Limiting character fatalities for specific opponents won't be good for the players"* Granted your suggestions might actually help like extra dialogues, but as always it's still great to see many content creators actually care about narrative or stories in fighting games and having thoughtful disscutions

[@nikolastefanovski2509]

I just think he’s overthinking the fatalities, they are not canonical in any way, like tower endings in all fighting games And at the end of the day, the fatalities are just a thing that can happen at the end of a match, you immediately move on to the next match and think nothing of them as soon as the next match starts. Idk that’s what i think

[@T-Jex]

@@nikolastefanovski2509 some tower endings are cannon (Smoke and Johnny's are in MKX) but yeah if you dont want to see Jade kill her husband to be in MK11 just... dont do it

[@iota-09]

@@nikolastefanovski2509 it's not about being canonical, he's not talking about the whole game's narrative, but about that specific match's narrative; if the story mode didn't exist and the characters only had backstories and nothing more, than the single matches would be the start and end of those characters narrative. That's the narrative he's talking about. Backstory (story mode) Encounter dialogue Fight End of match That's the whole narrative. However, the presence of an encounter dialogue that mentions characters backstory makes the ending narrative of the match... Weird. There's two relatively easy fixes: 1:take out the encounter dialogue(bad choice) 2: give them "Friendships"(but make them optional, not obligatory) However, when a character says "hello wife I've loved for 20 years" only for 2 minutes later open her up like a tangerine is disturbing in a far worse way than the gore itself. If there was no dialogue, you could make any idea you desire for the reason of the match itself though (like those who say "the opponent is always shen tsung", that would work if not that it never gets aknowledged mid-match, while everything else does)

[@mistergremm735]

@@iota-09 or 3: Just don't use fatalities, narrative could end with knock out

[@ShadowSumac]

@@nikolastefanovski2509 Overthinking is putting it VERY mildly. People like this like a plague killing everything fun in their way.

[@tmerchead1]

I think your overanalyzing Mk, fighting games will always contradict their own narrative example Dan is one of the weakest fighter in Street Fighter lore yet outside of it he can take on Bison ,Akuma,Oni .Akuma is supposed to be the dark side hado evil incarnate and whose only desire is to fight powerful opponents yet hes taking selfies with Elena in her ending. In Tekken Devil Kazuya is supposed to be one of the most powerful beings in Tekken lore yet outside of it he can get beat by fucking Lucky Chloe .You have to separate lore from game.

[@Prnnce]

He can, he just has the odds stacked high against him, just like how a player using a low tier will have to put in a lot of extra work to beat a player using a top tier with 3 frame lights

[@vesselthanatos3033]

i think his point is that even if it doesn't follow the narrative, fatalities become more disturbing when most of the cast are families and close loved ones.

[@thebwarrior7410]

vessel thanatos also people who have an issue with that could just not do a fatality

[@vesselthanatos3033]

@Mr. Dewott75 while it is still his fault for doing so, it doesn't help that the developers give us no choice but to believe that this game has family members killing each other. Honestly, i would've thought that with the inclusion of time travel and different dimensions, the game developers would have addded a effects or visuals to show that these are events being played out in different dimensions, and chronica is just watching them. They did a similar thing in Injustice 2 to show (or give the idea) that these fights are most-likely being fought in different worlds or are similations done by Brother Eye. They show this perfectly in Injustice 2 by showing batman controlling the computer / menu screen whioe choosing the fighters and location of each fight, so why not do something similar by having the opening start out with chronica messing with her time sphere thing?

[@ryangarza5513]

You people are missing the point of the video entirely. It's kinda hard to seperate the story narrative from gameplay when the narrative is being enforced through pre-fight dialogue. It's like "Hey you lets have a good fun fight. Alright but I'm gonna come out on top Nope I'm gonna win haha it's all in good fun with a little bit of joking around haha Then DEATH" Maybe if you would listen to what he was really saying it wouldn't have gone over your heads

[@Starnana]

Nice Danganronpa music Monokuma for MK11 DLC

[@Deadagent]

That..... makes more sense than it should.

[@maxramirez9955]

We don't need any weeb shit in a good game

[@user-bi9tp8zb9k]

Starnana thank you for letting me know where the music is from. Do you know what the song is called?

[@user-bi9tp8zb9k]

feargm thank you 🙏

[@buzzerking]

@@perky8390 You have a zoomed out image of Komaeda in a "rantsona" pose. Why are you calling people cotton pickers?

[@zamza989]

I always separate fatalities from story i felt like that's what you're supposed to do. It's like MK is very aware that it's a video game and also that you can choose to do the fatality or not. I think we're just supposed to keep em separate from story context and i think that's okay

[@memaythink9697]

It's not about it being canon. It's about just the "story" that's being told within the fight. Don't you think it's jarring to see two people be friendly and a minute later brutally mutilate each other, regardless of context?

[@ShadowSumac]

@@memaythink9697 Stupid copypasta is stupid.

[@mafuran8840]

Exactly. I feel like this entire video is just one big bitchmoan.

[@jojo95DK]

I see what you mean, and I'm not saying I don't agree, but fatalities and the "Sadism" you mentionned are part of MK's identity, I don't see how you can fix that problem without, as you said, limiting the player's freedom, can you imagine playing online as a character, but because they're related to the character the other player chooses, you can't use fatalities? That'd kinda suck Anyway... Despite that, I'm 100% behind you, story and characters are the best part of fighting games

[@suddenllybah]

That is basically what ABI says. The problem is that MK has always been a game about brutal murder, but most characters survive their games anyway. MK9 has kinda ruined that by having actually developed story beats in a tight story and MKX then mixed that with more intro dialogues. The excuse plot has gotten legs, but it still is excuse plot for games where it ends with over the top premeditated violence.

[@DWolf2099]

@@suddenllybah that is why there is a CANNON STORY MODE and a non cannon mode called VS mode. If there is a story mode stop complaining about story in ONE FIGHT that you and the opponent have chosen to happen.

[@suddenllybah]

@@DWolf2099 ... my point is how the story mode and vs mode literally clash with each other, and the writing in story modes gets refered to more and in with each game, so it does matter.

[@DWolf2099]

@@suddenllybah if the main story is there it doesn't matter, vs doesn't change the story

[@lnce_vfx6664]

suddenllybah dude... vs matches aren’t canon...

[@Psitacose]

they could change the fatality to a friendship when characters with a relationship fight

[@alanzapreservationtheythem2861]

Rodrigo carvalho Rain wins! FRIENDSHIP!

[@ironmaster6496]

That...could have been a GREAT Detail (and memorable troll moment)

[@drakewilson638]

They're putting Mercys

[@ShadowSumac]

Or they can just let the players decide what to do?

[@jessISaRicePrincess]

@purple man dude i can relate to that

[@heavynorse7746]

I definitely care about story in fighting games, hence why MK appeals so much to me. The world and mythos of MK is massive in comparison to other fighting games, could easily fill up several full-length RPGs. Fatalities and the gore of the franchise is just a gimmick though. Got absolutely nothing to do with the canon story, unless it's actually shown as part of the story, like with Sub-Zero killing Scorpion in MK Mythologies, and D'vorah killing off Baraka in MKX. There's nothing to fix.

[@memaythink9697]

@Sateki Taulanga It's not about it being canon. It's about just the "story" that's being told within the fight. Don't you think it's jarring to see two people be friendly and a minute later brutally mutilate each other, regardless of context?

[@memaythink9697]

@Sateki Taulanga Thank you, I know what both character interactions and fatalities are. I get that they're not cannon. I get that they're ""gimmicks"". No, it still doesn't mean that I'm gonna be OK with Sonya decapitating her own daughter and taking her fucking skull as a prize after them jokingly talking about their training.

[@heavynorse7746]

MK is not the game for you then. There are other fighting games out there though, so have fun with those instead. ^^

[@gracecalis5421]

@@memaythink9697 I think that has more to do with you, and less with the game. Its not Netherrealms prerogative to have to bend the game to fit your degree of suspension for disbelief. Their fanbase loves it, adores it even, so they won't change it, not when literally no one thinks its as significant of a problem as you people make it out to be. Simple solution? Get another game, because what you regard as something that detracts from the experience, many others regard as something that enhances the experience. In that case, it becomes less of critiquing game flaws and more of critiquing otjer people's tastes, which I must say is in poor taste (pun intended)

[@vaggos2003]

​@@gracecalis5421I was never a fan of the argument "well, no one else complains about that". All that this argument says is that a lot of other people with different tastes and perspectives on the matter than me don't have an issue with that (even tho some of them could have agreed with me and simply never noticed the thing I had a complaint with). Like, what, a critisism being objective or subjective is now all of a sudden decided by how many people bring that criticism up? As for the specific subject of discussion, the MK Fatalities, it is of no doubt that they are an MK gimmick. That is, I believe, a clearly established and accepted fact. What exactly does this gimmick offer MK? Like, we nowadays have other games with violence, a lot of it eith the same wanna-be-realistic style as modern MK. We also have other fighting games with finishers. We even have other fighting games with gore and violent finishers. And modern MK's finishers and gore really aren't that stylized so as to stand out when compared to the violence of other games and you could even argue modern MK's obsession with realism and mokap limits the stylization potential. This is easily seen in a lot of MKX Fatalities, where some of the goofier decisions in the Fatalities just don't work with the overall aesthetic of the game. In MK11, almost all of the Fatalities end up boiling down to: Character A hits character B a lot, there is lots of blood and character B keeps getting shredded even after death so what the hell is the point of the finishing blow, anyway? There are other issues with the Fatalities (not as special when compared to the gorey special moves, in a way they all feel like exactly the same thing, the devs sometimes with new ideas that don't feel like retreads from the past, older finishers look pathetic when compared to what comes after them) (and let's not turn a blind eye to the disgusting behind-the-scenes practices for the creation of some the modern gore) and most of those issues seem to come down to MK's desire to outdo itself on every turn. MK1 (or as how some fans like calling it M1K) has fixed some of those issues, but there is still room for progress. Hopefully, that progress will get realised. Those were my 2 cents to all this.

[@ziomalettoshadowplay3176]

One way it could be solved would be to make non-lethal finishers for certain characters like Liu Kang whose code prohibits him from killing or non-lethal finishers for friends/family members on the good guys' side (or maybe even few on the bad guys' side). Like, let's say, have Johnny say before a fatal "Sorry babe" to Sonya and do the uppercut that makes her land on the table (or some other WWE crap) to absorb the impact. Or have Cassie's baton finisher be simply a hit that breaks her dad's jaw and end at that (he can write in comments he want a rematch or something). But one question remains - is NRS committed enough to make additional finishers? I think the ultra grotesque fatalities were a mistake. Even if they don't make you cringe, they end up redundant after first hit and take so goddamn long, it makes me say "YES, GET ON WITH IT!".

[@Duchu26]

While I agree it absolutely breaks the character, when you see them mutilate and murder their loved ones, one thing you've got to remember is that Fatalities are optional. I think it tells more about a player who, without being forced, chooses to do a Fatality on his character's spouse/child/friend :D

[@marley7868]

it's not just a matter of being forced either a fatality is the hardest and most time time consuming way to end a battle you could do nothing it'd be over quick you can hit them once to knock em out and that's the fastest if you wanna kill'em that's entirely on you

[@nevercolo8661]

Optional yes, but you can argue that is you don't full one off, you've just won the fight for nothing so why not pull one off?

[@markel9000]

I love story telling in fighting games, ever since I’ve played them. I wish they would be expanded on even more. I think soul calibur 6 is a step in the right direction

[@lilarto]

I get how it could be off-putting and nonsensical to see characters perform fatalities on their loved ones. But ultimately it's a nonissue for me because I don't view finishers as canon, just as I don't view the moment to moment brutality during matches as canon. Otherwise, it would bother me that characters aren't limping when they get their leg broken or that the match doesn't abruptly end after a character's x-ray/fatal-blow. Mortal Kombat is all about over the top, gratuitous, cartoony violence. It's not meant to be taken too seriously but in jest. The only time a character's death affects me is when it happens during the story. But even then, there are a myriad of ways that characters can be resurrected so nothing's ever too final in the world of MK.

[@devilbringer1102]

The part about violence in your comment aged horribly since MKX was released, is not longer cartoony is now just disgusting

[@thepastorscasket]

@@devilbringer1102 It's definitely still cartoony.

[@gspandem1204]

@@thepastorscasket MK11 would like to have a word with you, seeing as it gave some of the animators actual PTSD.

[@cryofigment4949]

@@gspandem1204 It's still pretty cartoony No human has that amount of blood to squirt around

[@moonraven6145]

Ehh, they're fine afterwards, sure Jax just turned his daughter into a gory ash tray for his cigar but it's all water under the bridge after that

[@JEEVES635]

The actual narrative of the games include little to no actual fatalities because it would make the characters seem like absolute psychopaths. As far as regular 1v1 goes, does it really matter?

[@memaythink9697]

It's not about it being canon. It's about just the "story" that's being told within the fight. Don't you think it's jarring to see two people be friendly and a minute later brutally mutilate each other, regardless of context?

[@kory7698]

@@memaythink9697 Then don't brutally mutilate your opponent, the game isn't making you do that. You can choose if you want to or not

[@gunblade8674]

Me MayThink it’s a game

[@ShadowSumac]

@@memaythink9697 No, because, there is such thing as gameplay and story segregation.

[@Jreg2]

My headcanon theory: Outside of canon deaths in story mode, none of the fatalities are "real". To simply a very complex concept, the fights in story mode are actual fights while the ones in PvP, online or local,are about as real as a movie set or like WWE, meaning all brutalities, fatalities, anything that kills the enemy after is just VFX to give the theorical audience some thrill. Its why brutalities and fatalities can make no sense (another example is Jax doing the big boot step kill, how tf does he do it? Of course its not logical but with this theory in mind it's actually kinda reasonable, because it would be fake) and it also explains why characters are so ok with doing brutal things to characters they would canonically care about (for example Johnny can just fucking MURDER Cassie but in canon he'd never do that, you know, because that's his kid and he loves and cares for her.) So the reason it happens sometimes in the PVP mode is because, for them, its not real murder, its VFX or something like that, and the excess violence is just for the audience. Again, a weird theory of mine but I felt like it fits to share.

[@WikiHL]

Let's just ignore how SvC Chaos and KoF XIII did the unique prefight over a decade and almost a decade respectively

[@TeeMeeRee]

When it comes to games like Overwatch or Mortal Kombat or whatever, I think the story should NEVER affect the gameplay in any way. Not to sound nitpicky but take Mario Kart as an example. Why would someone like Bowser compete in a race car game with someone like Mario? Or why would Link show up if he exists an entirely different franchise? At the end of the day, a game should focus on its gameplay above all else, that's including storytelling. And while I hate to use this phrase, it's best to just turn off your brain when playing a game like MK.

[@jl2351]

turn on reading dialogue and get some laugh turn off using fatalities to get some laugh I think that’s how we should use our brain in Mortal Kombat single match

[@Skallva]

That's a very narrow-minded way of thinking. Games will not develop as an art form if the story will always take a backseat for brainless enjoyment. And even NetherRealm disagrees with you, considering the growing emphasis on the story in the MK games. Plus, Mario Kart is not known for its lore - or the Mario franchise in general. The video game equavilent of toys is not a good example in this debate.

[@jl2351]

@@Skallva Yeah,today's gameinformer's interview said that Ed didn't want MK became nothing without violence,I really hope MK 11 will be great on this aspect alone

[@TeeMeeRee]

@@Skallva I don't see how it's narrow-minded to think that, it's true. And it's way more than just "mindless fun", games shouldn't have to be judged as an art form based on their story alone. Because it really isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. And while you're right about the Mario Kart example, the same thing can be said for any game. Team Sonic Racing, Overwatch, etc.

[@Skallva]

@@TeeMeeRee Maybe to you it's not important, but it's still a core component of any medium that many find great ammounts of meaning from. Sure, games can be artistic via their atmosphere, immersive mechanical depth or other means, but they can still tell stories that resonate with people so they shouldn't be brushed aside when the dev team decides to put an emphasis on one. Also, I could give you TONS of examples that aren't just toys. Team Ico games, Shin Megami Tensei franchise, the Mother series, OneShot; the medium is very varied and can be more than just dumb fun.

[@jiheishou]

The way I see it, as soon as the announcer says FIGHT the match isn’t Character A vs Character B anymore. Its Player 1 vs Player 2. Fatalities exist as a means to rub your victory into your opponent’s face. The only “solution” I see is removing pre-fight dialogue but that would be lame. I put solution in quotation marks because solution would imply this is a actual problem and not just a weird video game thing.

[@jiheishou]

Also even in MK1-3 there were established relationships between characters if you read attract mode intros. Scorpion hates Subzero, Liu Kang and Kung Lao are shaolin bros, etc. Shame on you for saying that NRS story modes started with MK9, it started with MK vs DCU

[@bmsman816]

I swear only 2 days ago you were saying you WERENT a Mortal Kombat channel.

[@ShadowSumac]

Somebody desperate for clicks it seems.

[@DinoGoodley]

ShadowSumac No, he’s putting up a valid argument

[@chipslight738]

There's a term referring how certain interactions in a media are completely uncanon and detached from the story/lore of the universe and that is extradiegetic and that's what Fatalities are, extradiegetic. You explained it yourself, the concept of Fatalities is to just outright satisfy sadistic envies in the game but acting as if every fight is canon in its little bubble is a bit preposterous. At the end of the day, a fighting game core appeal is its mechanics, characters and competetivity. SF2 was a massive hit not because of its amazing storyline but because of its gameplay. Yes, we're in 2019, fighting games shouldn't just be simply fighting and have interesting content such as a story and character interactions but that doesn't mean a random fight in VS Mode has to be perfectly linked to the story/lore of the game, be it self-contained or not. There's multiple characters in SF or Tekken that would outright kill an opponent and be in character but you don't see it happen because those fights aren't supposed to be canon. I don't see why we can't just remember that a game about glorifying violence is just a game about glorifying violence that also has a story mode if you're interested in the universe. Also, on the notes of Guilty Gear and BlazBlue finishers not being "outright murder", I don't think we've played the same games. There's plenty of exemples of IK or Astral Finishes where a character that is not morally evil or crazy outright kill someone that can be their friends. I can give a dozen exemples : Johnny turning you into a card and slicing in half and making their enemy disappear, Testament sacrificing the opponent on a bed to his Succubus, Bang skewering them with a giant nail, Valkenhein tears them into shreds, Justice blowing them up, Faust NUKING THEM. I know in both games, some of them looks like joke finishers rather than actual ultimate moves (Faust's again, Bridget's IK, Makoto punching you to the moon) but that doesn't change that a bunch of those characters that are supposedly good guys still can do it on them. For fuck's sake, Slayer punches you to the other side of the Universe, how is that not as sadistically overkill as any Fatalities ? If you don't want to separate gameplay features and story for the sake of justifying why a mechanic in a video game exists, that's fine by me but at least be fair with the comparaisons cause I can try as much to explain how Dizzy preventing Necro to nuke Ky or Johnny killing May with one of her Instant Kill is as jarring MK's fatalities on friends/families. And no, I won't take the "it's just anime characters taking an anime beating" as an argument when shit like Bridget's IK, A.B.A.'s IK, Tager's AF and Arakune's AF exist.

[@ShadowSumac]

You dare to bring logic into this and dare to criticize anime fighters?

[@Hilian95]

I understand your point but... In the end Fatalities are MK's most important feature, limiting them in any way will be worse than preserving whatever lore they try to enstablish. Best you can do is pretend everything you see after the announcer says "FIGHT" didn't happen.

[@iota-09]

Doesn't mean it's not jarring to watch still... Might as well have puppets instead of actual characters at that point...

[@ShadowSumac]

@@iota-09 Than don't watch it. Problem solved.

[@THEKINGBETWEEN]

They don't let you perform fatalities in story mode so that kinda solves it

[@TheBest-ef9gj]

Im a street fighter fan and even I can admit this is a stupid video fatalities are optional and don't happen in story mode and are non canon 99% of the time

[@ingasparrow]

MK in the past had the option of performing "Friendship" and "Babalities" (turn the opponent into a baby). I guess they won't be featured for this new one, though. They were alternatives for those who thought Fatalities were too much and other critics.

[@DWolf2099]

You do know Fatalities are also optional by themselves? You are not required to do so

[@ingasparrow]

@@DWolf2099 Wow, I am obviously not familiar with MK, have never played it and had absolutely no idea. Thanks for pointing that out, genius. I didn't know when discussing Fatalities, that we weren't allowed to point out that MK had offered other alternatives in the past.

[@DWolf2099]

@@ingasparrow my genius is finally recognized

[@ingasparrow]

@@IkeOkerekeNews no u

[@IkeOkerekeNews]

@@ingasparrow No, shut up.

[@Antearion]

I think this is just a case where the narrative is separate from the gameplay. Just like in OW how Widow and Tracer will never work together, but the player has the right to throw on any character they choose. Jokes aside IMO fatalities come down to more of player v player than character v character. In story mode, you can't perform fatalities unless the game makes you in order to progress the story. So I don't think fatalities kill MK's narrative.

[@Antearion]

It's Because No, those two things are separate.

[@rampant1apart]

@@Antearion Well, running with that, then technically speaking pre-match dialogue AND fatalities are both divorced from the game play, proper; both are just window dressing around the core mechanics of burning down your opponent's life bar. That means then, if I look over at the narrative side of Mortal Kombat, there's this issue of consistency that ABI just pointed out.

[@myheadhurtsagain]

When the game designing team goes through the effort to plant a narrative at the beginning of every fight in their fighting game, then they are not completely separate. It is why Injustice 2 does not have this problem. Because all fights end with a level of ambiguity that could have resulted in the loser leaving the fight alive or dead. Overwatch doesn't have this issue because none of the gameplay is presented with an actual narrative in mind and the few times that it is, it is presented in such a way as to not cause issue (Ex. the PVE mode they did where the story mode was directly associated to 4 specific characters and had a secondary mode that followed the mission allowed you to play anyone but had no story involved). The same cannot be said when you use the Fatality at the end of the narrative you were just given in MKX (and XI presumably) vs mode. This is one of those cases where Ludonarrative Dissonance actually exists (and that sucks because I hate Ludonarrative Dissonance as a critical term in formal game critique due to its faulty origins and overly specific applications). Because this issue has nothing to do with the greater canon lore of MK. This just has to do with the narrative I am being sold for this one fight by the people who wrote the interaction. If the scene is set by the interactions at the beginning of the fight then that tone should be able to be believed all through out the fight and if it can't, then the design doesn't work. Even if they are just "What if" scenarios as other people have been arguing elsewhere in these comments, then they are terrible "What if" scenarios, because fun and flirty does not directly translate to "Let me rip our rib cage and feed it to you, prospective life partner."

[@Antearion]

@@rampant1apart That's the problem, both of you are looking way to deep into something that's not that deep. In most all games not just fighting games narrative and gameplay are always separate. Some developers have gotten pretty good at this especially in single player games where they can manage the two but at the end of the day its gameplay mechanics. When the two actually do fuse together you get something like Jump Force. Where Sanji can't attack none of the female characters. Yea in narrative Sanji would never hit a woman, but now I can't play the game. It's cute but very limiting. So if MK decided to make it where you couldn't perform a fatality base on your relationship with the character, I am now limited in my gameplay experience. All for what, narrative lol? If I cared about narrative I would go watch a movie, read a book, or play the story mode. Also, I wouldn't call what they're doing window dressing, I would call it having fun. Its something to have fun with like different outfits and intros. It's not as deep as ABI or you trying to make it.

[@rampant1apart]

@Sateki Taulanga "The simple thing to understand here is that game play driven by the PLAYER does not affect the STORY" That's fine by me, but again, not talking about game play, because by the definition of what is actual game play, FATALITIES do not qualify as game play. Fatalities are not game play. Fatalities are do not reduce the other players life bar. They are not involved in footsie, in meter management, in combos, in wall pressure. They are, at most, an extra elaborate win pose. They are cosmetic. Fatalities are not game play. And you are reducing the relationship of fathers and daughters and wives and husbands to just the intro dialogue. The fact of the matter is that the rest of the game has also been showing that these characters have warm feelings for each other and they are not aiming to kill each other. I'm not suggesting any course of action, I'm just agreeing with A.B.I. in saying, "Hey, this one aspect of MK story makes no sense because of Fatalities." If you want to ascribe more to that, to say I've got a problem with violence (I assure you I don't) or that MK should lose fatalities (that would be absurd), then I plainly say you are putting words into my mouth because you are. There is an observation being made and you clearly can't seem to handle that. Also, keep your insults in check. I'd like to have an actual conversation here, it's so hard to find on the internet. And it makes you look angry for no reason. You mad already?

[@burrito9327]

Considering the fact that MKX brought back a ton of Kharacters back to life (Not only as revenants, but also as fully reformed humans) after their canon deaths in MK9, I guess... death is meaningless in MK. Also, there is now time travel involved, so now death is both meaningless and inconsequential, since Baraka can rip off Shao Khann's face and then hop back in time to be his faithfull servant again. Now that death is no longer has meaning nor consequences it's just a spectacle I guess. Those are my two cents tho, as someone who will must likely play a Johnny in MK11 and refuses to murder my wife and child.

[@burrito9327]

@Sateki Taulanga I guess you're right on that, fatalitys will never really leave since a MK without fatalitys isn't an MK game. The best way to look at this batles is that they are non-canon, but the interactions are canon, as many others have already said.

[@iota-09]

@@burrito9327 and unfortunately that's the problem... That the fights aren't canon it's all right, but the start of round interaction create a per-match narrative that gets shreddes to piecea once a fatality(and sometimes brutalities, fatal blows and x-rays) happen.

[@ShadowSumac]

@@iota-09 Deal with it.

[@burrito9327]

@@iota-09 Tis the curse of modern MK, Violence vs character development, a tale of flirts and decapitations eternally retold....

[@TheAldGamer]

And that’s why they probably will get back the Friendships

[@SpeedStar1642]

1:52 “All of it comes crumbling down once you hear those two words.”

[@BestyBattalion]

How hard is it to understand that all fights outside the story are NON CANON? How could you produce a whole video without realising this...?

[@degisndinga8853]

There is a difference between story and plot vs non Canon gameplay lol. Hell even in uncharted 4 multiplayer Drake can kill his brother and friends cause it's not Canon to the plot

[@Flump-Master]

Degis Johnson I completely agree

[@tmerchead1]

Agreed he's overanalyzing a problem where the simple answer its a fighting game.

[@robomen123]

Well, yeah, you got a point, but there's a one thing what makes those sequences a canon battles - Character Specific intro dialogues. And uncharted 4 multiplayer is not a very good example because multiplayer is not a main focus of this game, but battles are really main in fighting games! Yeah, you easily can avoid this problem and enjoy a game, but finding those finding those problems and searching for a solution can create something interesting! That's how art work! P.S.: Sorry for my bad English... I'm not really experienced in talking on it... Listening? Okey! But in talking department i really need some practice.

[@degisndinga8853]

@DarkMaximo yes choking your friends or blowing them up and kill them with bullets is more like overwatch cartoony violence

[@natsuquilava7917]

I'm surprised that no one has brought up one reason what this video's idea is flawed: By this logic, Mortal Kombat's gameplay as a whole breaks the narrative. I feel people forget that with this being a fighting game, we have to remember that many things in the multiplayer don't actually happen in canon, but in Mortal Kombat especially, as this can affect even canon fights in story mode. Using MKX for example: Why would Sonya use grenades against Johnny, Cassie, or Cassie's team? They're human, and that would cause massive damage to them, if not kill them. Why would Johnny use his grab on Sonya or Cassie, or Jax use his Gotcha Grab on Jackie? Johnny'd be breaking their arms and legs, which would look bad on him and would most likely put them out of commision for some time, maybe even causing permanent damage, same for Jax, who's metal arms would likely inflict plenty of head trauma on the daughter that he apparently cares for so much. Why would Jackie use her gauntlets on her dad? He's not a revenant, and aside from his arms, he's a perfectly normal human, and those things can clearly do some crazy damage on things that AREN'T normal humans if her x-ray and fatality are anything to go off of. Why would Takeda use his whips on his teammates? Those things can go through limbs like butter, why even risk harming your friends like that? Why would Cassie pull a gun on just about anyone who's an ally to her? More of the cast than you think can be dealt with by a single, well placed bullet, and to that extent, why is Erron Black even a playable character? If he's as good with that gun as the gameplay makes him look, matches realistically shouldn't take as long as they do since a head shot would canonically put many of the characters down for good. People argue narrative, but then according to this video, Mortal Kombat's narrative is already broken from the basic gameplay. Removing Fatalities, Brutalities, or even X-Rays would do nothing since this would still be the game where Cassie can unload a handgun into her dad, Jax can beat his daughters brains in, and Johnny can break his families limbs. All of which is done through the basic moves in the game and is shown with little to no issue from the characters committing the deeds. The only way to "fix this problem" would be to change MK entirely, but then it wouldn't be MK, would it? As many have said, this is overthinking something that never needed to have this much thought.

[@markcollier3644]

This is starting to feel a little petty. What did Mortal Kombat do to you?

[@nullen1499]

I don’t really get this. The fatalities have been in the game since the start. They aren’t going to just remove that for the sake of story. I know you don’t like MK to start (for fair reasons) but jesus this sounds nitpicky.

[@dragons_red]

I always saw all matches as small "alternate universe" outcomes similar to the differebt endings depending on who wins the tournaments, so things like friends and family doing fatals to each other as just a thing that happen in that timeline. The official story mode is the canon.

[@wendell0652]

I see what you’re getting at, but I don’t agree with it though. If you really wanted the story narrative to fit, then the friendly characters wouldn’t even be fighting in the first place. You shouldn’t have to hinder the gameplay if you feel bad for the characters. Just don’t perform the fatalities if you feel uncomfortable.

[@brandonbrown6922]

Again, it's not about feeling bad for the characters, nowhere was that stated. This is a case of tonal dissonance. Where we have two heavily clashing elements. Namely, friendly relationships that can randomly turn brutally murderous. No one said that fatalities should be removed. Honestly that would be a horrendous mistake, because then MK wouldn't have a reason to exist, but they don't fit with characters having positive relationships with each other. Honestly, making MK more story driven was a mistake.

[@wendell0652]

You missed when I said that they wouldn't be fighting in the first place. You and A.B.I. are overthinking the gameplay aspect of the game when the main objective is to defeat or kill the opponent. You wouldn't kill your best friend or a relative, but you do have the capability to right? Why not apply that to the characters? Maybe they had the urge to push it too far resulting in the death of someone they cared about.

[@francismanancis4186]

Fatalities are non canon. You dont perform fatalities during story (unless the two characters are enimes) Now you're just nitpicking.

[@memaythink9697]

It's not about it being canon. It's about just the "story" that's being told within the fight. Don't you think it's jarring to see two people be friendly and a minute later brutally mutilate each other, regardless of context?

[@Rexog90]

I totally agree. And it is not like we care about what is canon or not when we are playing and having fun with friends, right? At best we(my friends and me) make fun of it "lol he killed his best friend, this makes no sense".

[@SaviorGabriel]

Nitpicking is kinda what he does here.

[@locotronification97]

@@memaythink9697 The same applies in Blazblue, Dragon Ball, and many other fighting games... Ragna's astral finish literally vanish you, lol

[@ShadowSumac]

@@memaythink9697 No.

[@amazighgamer186]

You should talk about fatalities in Samurai Shoown series especially Samurai Shodown V

[@Freefork]

To little girls are just TRILLED to slice each other in half.

[@ShadowSumac]

They won't. SamSho is not that popular, so he won't get many click by doing so.

[@davantejohnson7850]

Regardless, that one should flourish as well.

[@austinreed7343]

@@Freefork Samsho and Eternal Champions should both be discussed.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

@@ShadowSumac Uh...

[@Dragonage2ftw]

They were never canon. You can’t take Fatalities as being canon.

[@dante_02]

MK1's Scorpion's fatality and MKX's D'vorah's fatalities exist

[@easygoingdude9990]

It's not about over arching story canon. It's about each fight being a contained narrative and how interactions between friends/family go from good natured in the intro to torture porn in the finisher. I for one find that weird. Not a logical thing.

[@easygoingdude9990]

@Sateki Taulanga yeah fair enough.. The game is just not for me I suppose. That being said bringing the friendship thing back wouldn't be a bad idea right?

[@jp_enduresurvive7374]

@@easygoingdude9990 It wouldn't be a bad idea. But I would prefer to kill everyone instead of befriending them.

[@easygoingdude9990]

@@jp_enduresurvive7374 lol

[@somebodyrandom27]

Okay, here's a 2-part idea that may or may not be feasible as a solution: 1. Give most, if not all, of the characters a "Humiliation" finisher, where they use their abilities to non-lethally finish off their opponent. 2. Add in a "lore friendly" toggle for players. If it's on, any Fatality that wouldn't make sense is replaced with a Humiliation from their PoV. The opponent will still see the Fatality if they didn't toggle it on.

[@LordOctopussy]

Technically the fatalities (and by extension brutalities) are something the player has to actively input, it's just as easy to punch your opponent in the face, knock them out & finish the match that way. Otherwise I always just go with the story & gameplay separation line of reasoning & call it a day otherwise I overthink what I just did which then leads to me having an existential crisis about my morality.

[@memaythink9697]

It's not about it being canon. It's about just the "story" that's being told within the fight. Don't you think it's jarring to see two people be friendly and a minute later brutally mutilate each other, regardless of context?

[@jeangentry6656]

@@memaythink9697 No, I don't. Then again, I watched alot of pro wrestling growing up, so friends fighting each other is common.

[@iota-09]

@@jeangentry6656 most people don't though (even with how popular wrestling is) It's not like it'd be hard to fix anyway, there's lots of ways to tackle it, some that add things in the game(optional friendship finishers) and other that remove(no pre-match dialogue) as well as others that explain how just the fatality is non-canonical to the match and/or story(black screen with "in another universe..." Or something like a mention of a virus or brain damagw or whatever) and others that just change the target if the fatality to something more sensible(e.g. it's all a vr simulation or the one who dies it's alwaya shen tsung)

[@ShadowSumac]

@@memaythink9697 There is no story within the match. Intros are just flavor dressing.

[@ShadowSumac]

@@iota-09 Why they should if fatalities are clearly gameplay only mechanic? Maybe you should stop being so fragile?

[@Daryom]

i vaguely remember an easter egg on Samsho, i dont remember if it was V or IV, but i remember that if you do either Rimururu or Nakoruru's fatal blow to each other, you get a special interaction to show their grief and shock on how they could do such thing.

[@cameronsquire3132]

While I can see the points being made by ABI, I have to respectfully disagree with this one. Granted, I am a pretty big Mortal Kombat fan, so take what I say with a grain of salt. In old fighting games, there usually wasn't a lot of story, if there was any at all. As characters began to develop more, most of the story we got was through character interactions before matches, which helped establish character relationships, as is explained in the video. However, with more recent fighting games, while there still are character interactions and relationships shown before matches, I think that outside of the established story mode, which most fighting games nowadays have, it's reasonable to assume fights are non-canon. Before, when character interactions was all there was, those moments had to be canon for the sake of establishing any at all, but now that we have established story modes that are separate from online and ranked modes, it's unreasonable to say every fight must be canonical. This is why in MK9 and MKX, you can't do any Fatalities or Brutalities in story mode. For example, think about when both players pick the same character in MKX. With two Kitanas, they can interact saying they're sisters that both are trying to sleep with Liu Kang. This is blatantly a joke, and definitely not something that was ever supposed to be canonical. In addition, when I play MK and get Fatalitied, I don't see it as one character killing another character, I see it as the other player killing me since he beat me fair and square. Fatalities are a reward that the winner receives in player matches, not a plot device for the story. Okay, rant over. Love your vids SugarPunch, just wanted to get my thoughts on the subject out 😋

[@austinreed7343]

Cameron Squire It still is weird when they start chatting it up before they torture each other.

[@gunblade8674]

Austin Reed just as weird as super girl throwing Batman into space

[@boxtupos7718]

I'd argue the opposite on this, Ryu and Ken bump fists, you know that they are sparring and have mutual respect towards each other. Or like how in GG Accent Core, when you have a Slayer vs. Order Sol fight, they open with both hitting each other at high speed and they end up in neutral; Because Sol's the only one who is able to push Slayer to that extent. Or like in Garou Mark of the Wolves, when you win with Rock's Shining Knucle (A technique he got from Terry) he covers up his unconscious opponent with his jacket; But if he wins with a Raging Storm (One of Geese's super) he is shown struggling with Geese's powers taking over him.

[@GurrenPrime]

All the people here commenting that “they’re just what-if scenarios” seem to be missing what you said about each fight telling a story.

[@thetoondevil]

Agreed, regardless if it's canon or not, the characters in the game still a acknowledge their relationship with other characters as they fight. And to see them use fatalities on their friends and loved ones just kinda breaks your idea on how you perceived these characters.

[@tmerchead1]

No its just that anyway you slice it the answer is simple its a fighting game you need to separate lore from game otherwise you'll give self a headache , Dan in Street Fighter lore is one of the weakest characters yet outside of it he can take on Akuma.

[@suddenllybah]

What if two of the kombat kids talked about having frosty chocolate shakes afterwards, and then murdered each other.

[@thetoondevil]

@@suddenllybah then the other just saved some money :p

[@GurrenPrime]

Jt Jose I mean, character balance is one thing, but ideally characters should stay in character, whether or not it’s “canon” or whatever. As long as Dan is a goofball and Akuma is deadly serious, then they’re behaving in character.

[@suddenllybah]

.... for people who say "just don't use fatals", ... x-rays exist and have the same problems. Heck, brutal do as well. At least brutalities are short and punchy, so you don't have to wonder why it got lethal... and why characters didn't stop as soon as the other character is dead.

[@ShadowSumac]

It's not like in other fighting games you can beat your friends and loved ones with extremely brutal attacks, right? Right? Right!?

[@Julioc96]

Usually you CHOOSE to do the fatality to mock your opponent. In competitive games everything is about the experience, not the storytelling, it would be odd not to be able to do a fatality just because the characters are related. Just an opinion.

[@UltraEpicLeader10020]

That's what they were originally made for. Rubbing the victory in the opponent's face by destroying their character in a gnarly finishing move.

[@thetoondevil]

I actually thought about this subject with my friend. We always talk about why MK vs SF is never a thing, and one of the common subject I bring up is Fatalities. While the franchise(SF) has characters with motives to kill, a good majority aren't. A good number are even against the thought of it. So how do you go about this with someone with that characteristic? You have characters with relationships with others, how do you justify killing them in such a barbaric way? I'm sure the versus mode is considered non-canon in MK, but the cast still interacts with one another at personal levels. And that's kinda messed up when you think about it.

[@ogreevans]

DC vs MK had Brutalities. Probably just do the same thing for an MK vs SF.

[@RaycerkGamer]

Or maybe just a, Mortal Kombat characters in Street Fighter. Like Street Fighter X Tekken. That way, they will follow SF rules, and don't kill.

[@MegaPhilX]

Especially, like he said in the video, when characters acknowledged their relationships to each other at the start of a VS match...

[@thetoondevil]

@@ogreevans if I remember, that was one of the reasons the game suffered. When there's a game featuring MK characters, they expect the over the top gore.

[@thetoondevil]

@@RaycerkGamer think it over, I think in turn NRS would also want a MK variant as well. So in the end, SF may would also have to fall onto that situation.

[@JustAdam3D]

Finally someone made a video about this! Fatalities never sat well with me outside of pure morbid curiosity but this aspect to them always made me so uncomfortable and I'm glad I'm not the only one

[@ShadowSumac]

Play Street Fighter. Friends just beat each other to a bloody pulp in that game, which I expect you find much more serviceable to your delicate palate.

[@Uber_scorpion]

Every fight outside of story mode isn't considered canon. The prefight dialogue yes are sometimes tied to the canon story, but they are more there to display the personality of the person and the kind of interaction they would have with their opponent. Taking the fatality away wouldn't make a fight between Johnny and Cassie any less fucked up. They are stilling punching eachother to the point where bloods sprays everywhere and breaking eachother's bones. Best thing is just not take Mortal Kombat seriously. The fatalities are a staple to the franchise and it's ok if you don't like it, but fact is it's not going anywhere.

[@161patox]

Any match outside of story mode is disposable in MK's narrative, i don't think they care about what happens in those.

[@73windman]

I respect the effort you put into this and the notion has crossed me as well-but this take is kinda ice cold, dawg. Intense blood and gore is MK’s big limit just as much as continent dropping is for anime fighters. It’s just kind of a double edged sword you have to roll with in a sandbox like this. I think it’s unfair to say it’s better in Blazblue or the like just because there isn’t blood or you can shrug off an attack that’s undeniably deadly with a quick quote. As far as I’m concerned, a player controlling Goku to use a planet busting spirit bomb on his own son is no different than a player controlling Johnny to kill Cassie. Outside story mode, it’s the player’s jurisdiction and imagination that justifies what goes on, and it’s not a valid criticism to say NRS should put a cap on that.

[@Darian610]

I have an idea. In the options menu, you can choose to have fatalities but no pre-fight dialogue, or pre-fight dialogue and limited fatalities. Let me explain. If you choose the latter option and do a fight with Johnny Cage and Goro, one character can preform a fatality on the other, since those characters canonicly don't like each other. However, if Johnny Cage were to instead fight Sonya Blade while in this optional mode, neither character can perform a fatality, because their's no way these two will try to kill each other willingly.

[@Gamsterjeff600]

This video is a nice thing but unnecessary when your thinking of these as just What if's? This feels more like a out of season april fools joke

[@FlagshipFighter]

"What began in MK9 as a full blown story cinematic experience" Clarification: MK vs. DCU

[@tombraider200571]

ludonarrative dissonance, You just accept it. Obviously every fight outside of story mode isn't canon and the converrsations is just for fleshing out of characters.

[@129AdreNalinE921]

Every MK fight outside of the story mode is non-canon anyway. Families killing each other can be shrugged aside pretty easily.

[@iota-09]

If they didn't call themselves family when the round started...

[@ShadowSumac]

@@iota-09 Who the fuck cares?

[@lastaccount4062]

@@iota-09 For whatever dissonance that conjures, the game would be much worse if they restricted potential finishing moves in exhibition/arcade ladder modes to temper that dissonance. Presentation of Fatalities is a major component of the MK formula, you can't take away the game's bread & butter because of a discrepancy that ultimately doesn't effect the story whatsoever because none of the exhibition/ladder modes abide by the canon presented in the story mode of each NR release. It's like expecting Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu in Street Fighter to be unavailable for most matchups provided the exception of the few characters canonically strong enough to survive the move because otherwise it would "disrupt the game's canon/story" because Akuma would have technically murdered his opponent by defeating them with that move. Does it technically make more sense that way if you look at every potential match-up in versus mode in a fighter as canon? Yes. Would it also be wholly unsatisfying in comparison to previous SF games where Akuma has access to his super cool killing technique? Absolutely. Furthermore, trying to contextualize each intro with a circumstantial basis for a fight to the death between unlikely enemies would likely put the writers of the game in a corner and I feel the dialogue would ultimately be less flavorful and fulfill less characterization and additional lore as a result, which is a key charm of NR's style of intros per fight.

[@iota-09]

@@lastaccount4062 so... Just make it optional? As in, in pvp, make it so you don't have to assist to the opponent do a fatality if they want to do it. (afaik in pve the enemy can't do fatalities, and you already have the power of choice as a player to not do it when you win... But not when you lose.)

[@kingkingo1841]

@@ShadowSumac the person your responding, ABI, and everyone who liked the video

[@Tman2bard]

well thats a really cold take tbqh. I understand what you mean, but theres a reason for Gameplay and Story segregation. For me, I always assumed the fights were all what ifs or not even real to begin with. We have a VR level, what's to say this isn't all happening in some kind of VR simulations to see how each fighter would do against each other?

[@memaythink9697]

It's not about it being canon. It's about just the "story" that's being told within the fight. Don't you think it's jarring to see two people be friendly and a minute later brutally mutilate each other, regardless of context? Yes, even the context of a VR simulation. When the dialogues, reactions and facial expressions of these characters are made to be SO realistic, is "knowing that it's not real" gonna help you in not feeling really disturbed by it anyways?

[@smokey601]

@@memaythink9697 fatalities are optional tho, you don't have to perform them every match

[@gunblade8674]

Me MayThink LoL no you know why? Bc it’s a game you need to learn to separate gameplay and story. In gameplay super girl throws Batman into space which would kill him but you know no death in injustice. Either way the only people who find it disturbing are people who have never played a mk game

[@ShadowSumac]

@@memaythink9697 There is no story within the fight. Intros are just flavor dressing.

[@Shining4Dawn]

Thanks for leaving the audio on that ending clip intact. I needed Jarek screaming like an idiot in my life today.

[@Dastankbeets9486]

Aren’t the actual fights non-canonical?

[@thetoondevil]

Yes, but the way the game goes about the fight still has some form of narrative. johny Cage and Sonya will interact with one another during intros and clashes. While the fight is not canon, the in game fight is still establishing that these two were husband and wife through these small narrative bits.

[@gunblade8674]

Silverware Warrior the fight is still non canonical tho

[@iota-09]

@@gunblade8674 yeah, but Canon isn't the problem here, but established per-match narrative and character relationships and personality which again gets establishes before the round even starts.

[@gunblade8674]

iota-09 again that’s not gameplay. The fatalities are part of the gameplay. By your same logic super girl should not use her super on Batman bc it would actually kill him. Your overblowing it honestly

[@thetoondevil]

@@gunblade8674 wither it's canonical or not, the fight is still establishing the connection between the fighters. You see Johny and his daughter have specific lines to one another, establishing a connection. Then to end said match with a fatality, it kinda hurts your views on said characters, despite being a non-canonical fight. Games are no different from movies or books, they want to make you beleive that these are real people running through their own personal problems. Even though we know this is fictional, the story has to give that illusion that this is what's really happening to said characters. And the use of fatalities on characters who establish friendly relations kinda breaks that illusion. And that was really the point SugarPunch was trying to make.

[@robertsunrobert4541]

Fatalities are important to the MK series, it'll become a basic button masher and loses its identity if they are gone.

[@jahaininagaki385]

There is nothing button mashing about MK absolutely nothing at all

[@InsidiousOne]

The modern fatalities ruin the narrative no matter the victim. The classic fatalities were about finishing the opponent, they were brutal, but quick and effective. It's may be shocking to see a good character murdering his opponent, but, I guess, it's understandable in a "kill or be killed" situation. And the modern fatalities are just tasteless, they are not about finishing the opponent, they are about juggling with meat and sadism. And how would I explain a good natured Shaolin monk or a nice hearted Hollywood actor brutally mutilating someone? They have denied the good taste to bring sadistic teenager audience.

[@vinylvids2011]

Your point about modern fatalities are spot on. The best example of this is Sub Zero's fatality where he chops of the opponent's head then freezes and punches the head. In the old games it would've ended with the decapitation, but now they added the frozen head punch for the sake of excessive gore. It serves no purpose but to have people look in shock at how far the series will go.

[@galacticspecter4364]

Fatalities are closer being to extended winposes than Guilty Gear instakills or Blazblue astral finishes. That's not a very good comparison, Fatalities are meant to show off the character's abilities and personality in a gory spectacle.

[@aidanneal5688]

Wow thanks for making a video about a topic everyone has thought of and accepted as a part of the game. Cool Also when you said "romantic" it showed a battle between Sonya and Cassie **Sweet home Alabama faintly starts**

[@ZacharyDietze]

MK11: Because alternate timelines exist now, and we’re gonna make friendships even more goofy as hell now than ever before by making them act like children. Boom, done. Narrative completely fixed. The4thSnake: *Oh for fu-*

[@Tw0shedz08]

Is this a late April fools video? Of course exhibition matches don’t matter. So neither do the fatalities

[@ShadowSumac]

This guy is desperate for clicks and wants to parasite on the upcoming title from the popular series.

[@iota-09]

Don't matter on what?

[@ShadowSumac]

@@iota-09 They are not part of the story.

[@Aztyph]

While I disagree with your point, I will say this: If you're interested in seeing a fighting game that integrates Fatalities into its narrative, then I strongly recommend checking out _The Last Blade 2,_ and playing through the Story Mode of one Hibiki Takane.

[@parrisxsummers]

Wait I fixed it. The dialogue is the character, the gameplay is you. If you know that the characters love each other you can decide to not kill them. Also, 99% of people understand that it’s just a fighting game and that this non cannon fight means nothing. I mean sophitia kicking Cassandra into a pit of lava is pretty final.

[@ShadowSumac]

B-b-but everything is serious!!

[@super8bitable]

Except SoulCalibur doesn’t have brutal murder and the Ring Outs can be done in any round.

[@parrisxsummers]

Clobbah lava is brutal murder. So is drowning. So is strangling.

[@SnaKeMuHo]

With how MK11's story is about time travel, they could just explain every fatality as an alternative timeline, though intros still contradict the sadism. Inb4 NRS will take notes again and make characters say "sorry" after fatalities in MK12.

[@Jimmeeehhh]

Hmm. Speaking of anime fighters, I'm gonna go ahead and hit Celica with a Black Onslaught. I'm sure she'll walk it off, lol.

[@HellRider_]

At least in that case BB has victory screens to show that "oh hey, Celica survived that after all...somehow", while MK has no such luxury, and even if it did it'd be even harder to reconcile. What would they be talking do? A pile of meat and bones?

[@Skallva]

That's one Astral out of 36. In MK, *everyone* has *multiple* ways of brutally killing their opponent and in case of Black Onslaught, at least you don't see Celica being badly hurt - she's just offscreen, which may well mean Rags was still holding back when pulling off the Astral (supported by the dialogue).

[@breadchips4803]

Cassie: Dang it dad, just darn. Johnny Cage fucking claps Cassie into the pavement without mercy or hesitation.

[@ColorMeDoubleZ]

This. People think abi is being sensitive and doesn't like violence when it's really the interactions like that throwing him off. Me too frankly, not because its graphic but the idea of it. The argument is usually "but it's a what if scenario!" that doesn't excuse from it being a very weird and unnatural sequence of events. Best not to start a mini narrative with established stakes/tone if it can be met with an illogical conclusion like a fatality.

[@fearhunger3983]

Mortal Kombat 11 kinda found a solution to this actually. The characters come from different timelines where their alignments with each other might not be the same. They even bring this up in pre-battle discussions where they say stuff like "in my timeline you are a murdering revenant" It doesn't completely fix the problem, but I guess that's as much of a solution as you could get for such an issue. Although to be fair, I don't think this necessarily needs a solution, because in the end it's the player who decides to pull the trigger. Canon-wise the characters might just knock each other down when the "Finish him" comes up.

[@AdvanceWarrior]

Honestly, I 100% agree with you. Every time I see a relationship fatality, it makes me wonder what goes through their head

[@CDSCRATCH10]

"Glad this f&'king b1tch is getting what she deserves"

[@malikoniousjoe]

I understand where you're coming from, and I love me some good fighting game narrative, but fatalities are there specifically for players in versus mode. It's a way to style on your friends first and a story mechanic second.

[@yareyare8235]

In Samurai Showdown Nakoruru can kill Rimururu with a finisher too. My problem with MK11 is that fatalities are not funny anymore, they're obsessed with anatomy and suffering, gorier than the goriest horror game. The developer was diagnosed with PTSD, zero surprise.

[@pogpog9389]

Fatalitiea are optional tho. It's up to you if you want to do. They could just end the fight with a low kick

[@ryborg3702]

This is why I wouldn’t mind if a fighting game only allowed fatal-finishers to be done on specific non-significant characters. I just wouldn’t want ‘dramatic-finishes’ to be just an ArcSys-only thing.

[@User.665]

Then you hit rematch and both characters are fine again. Online/offline 1v1's aren't cannon, moving on.

[@Chaos.A]

His argument isn't for the canon-ness of the fights to the overall story, it's more about the self contained narrative in each fight.

[@SymbiSpidey]

Johnny Cage's fatality from MK11 seems to establish that the multiplayer matches are all just one big action movie or something