A Barrel Leading Controversy? Not Really

[@TRprepper]

That was a great explanation to curb the controversy. I would say I usually don't even get to the moderate stage of leading. When I first started shooting a lot I bought reloads from a local gun shop and they must have been pure lead because they leaded up severely in a 100 to 200 rounds it was a pain to get out. But since I cast and reload my own now I don't see much leading any more. Take care my friend!

[@vengenaceearly255]

Why except leading at all. As you may know I have taken the plunge and began coating my .45 acp with bayou bullets coating. Donnie Miculek was very helpful talking to me over the phone. So last week I baked 800 rounds in a day. Tomorrow I will let you know how they shoot. Wednesday is steel shooting practice. Wish me luck --- I might be rained out tomorrow.

[@FatManLeather]

I usually shoot a few plated bullets after the lead bullets. I haven't had a lot of trouble with leading since I started casting my own, when I bought led bullets I had quite a bit of leading issues.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

fatmantolly I think many who but lead bullets find the same - we don't have any control over the size or hardness of those...With our own cast bullets, we tailor them to our guns...Good castin' to ya... FC

[@vajake1]

That was about the best, most reasonable explanation for the various degrees of success or failure of the "shoot through" cleaning method. I personally do not shoot jacketed bullets after cast bullets with the intent of removing lead fouling because I fear that someday I will "bulge" or "ring" a barrel. Most of my leading has occurred while shooting cast lead bullets during pistol action matches. There is not time nor facility at most match venues to scrub the lead out during the match. Matching cast bullet hardness to cast bullet velocity become very important.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

vajake1 You've got a very good handle on the issue... No fear on bulging or ringing a barrel unless you have leading so bad that the grooves are gone. If that were to happen, your bullets would be all over the place and keyholing up a storm - you would know better than to shoot magnums through that... Best to ya

[@GunFunZS]

FortuneCookie45LC I am still leery. I did ring bulge a barrel while shooting steel. (Not too easy to tell whether it is me or leading while doing shoots on the move.)

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

GunFun ZS As you know, the only way you bulge a barrel is via barrel obstruction. And if during a prolonged handgun shooting session, the most likely would be by severe leading. But that takes a lot of leading - total groove obliteration and then continued shooting. My take is that you would have been tipped off by your gun performance before it got to that. But all things are possible. Thinking back, that never happened to me as I typically shot 200-250 rounds of cast bullets loads through my guns just shooting at the range for practice. When I competed in steel shooting once a week, I knew my loads were clean shooting enough to go the entire evening by sheer weight of bullets shot with those favorite loads of mine - 4.8 grains of Bullseye powder and the 200 grain long nose SWC Lee bullet cast of wheel weights and a bit of added linotype. I used WW540 for my 147 grain cast 38 Super loads (and later 9mm) for the same purpose. These loads never leaded my comp guns bad enough for me to worry about during their use over several seasons of competition. Sorry to hear that you had that barrel bulge event - that could not have been any fun. Best to ya -- and sorry that I never got into your contests - I don't enter or do any of those just out of habit...

[@GunFunZS]

It occurred a while back during "moderate leading", and I saw it happen to another pistol with no leading. Both were with some bullseye 9mm loads that were a little on the hot side. (Within old book max, but over new book max by .2 grains.) None showed pressure signs on the brass, and both were very low round count at the time. It caused me to back down my favorite load a bit, and I have been considering other powders, pending availability. The first one had substantial leading within what you would term moderate, but the other one had no leading or obstruction, just a thinner barrel. This leads me to believe it was purely a factor of pressure.

[@seamusmcbride2832]

Very pertinent vid as to my recent load development with .38 spcl and .357 mag in my Blackhawk. 200 hand-cast lead loads using 6 different powders and 3 different bullets (2, 45/45/10 and 1, pan-lubed with gas checks). Every ten lead test loads were followed with 5 jacketed rounds of mid-power magnum. Finally I shot 25 rounds of strictly gas-checked rounds with no jacketed followup. Accuracy never wavered throughout. Cleanup was fast and easy with Ballistol with no undue scrubbing. Was I overboard with the jacketed rounds? Maybe. But the results at the cleaning bench were wonderful.

[@Eugene2ndW]

What about the Outer's Lead Out electrolysis process? Do they still make that kit?

[@gph9674]

Great explanation of leading and what is going on in the barrel. I have been running jacketed here and there when I shoot lead. Has made cleaning much easier. Sold my sp101 a while ago and have a couple of cans of powder for reloading .357 am going to trade a 22/45 and get a Blackhawk. Easier to reload than it is to find 22lr. and I have wanted one for many years. Good inspiration FC45LC. Thank you.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

***** And thank you GPH for all your fine comments...Good shootin' to ya, and the very Best of Regards...

[@jamesmiller9823]

Read Shuman barrel cleaning information , they say if you shoot lead bullets shoot 5 or 6 copper jacketed bullets when you are done and that will clean your barrel, don't use any soluvent's or anything else . If anyone on here thinks they know more than Shuman keep on doing what you are and see how long your barrel lasts.

[@gunnareriksen8756]

It's depending of the hardness of the lead...

[@thetobaccoguy1751]

I was always told that jacketed after lead is bad mojo. If you happen to have significant leading, you could easily get a pressure spike. I my opinion, if you are getting significant leading you need to work on your load/alloy combo.

[@seamusmcbride2832]

FortuneCookie45LC What is your perspective on the effectiveness of gas-checked lead bullets as opposed to jacketed bullets in barrel "scrubbing"?

[@tjmooremusic]

Hi fc. I for target shooting use FMJ 38special and for 357 I use jsp. I prefer at this point not to get into cast bullets. are the 357 magnum jsp going to be a potential leading problem? I usually fire them last..... or mix things up during a session. I use the jsp because of their ready availability and more because I can use them in my Lever gun too and save money. when I start reloading I plane on only using jacketed bullets as much as possible. just not ready for casting and dealing with leading problems.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

tjmooremusic - Nothing wrong with using jacketed in our guns... You will get no leading problems although copper fouling can be an issue. We have good copper removers and also powders that now reduce copper fouling. I have met some shooters at the range who want no lead touching their guns - and jacketed bullets give them that. We all start out reloading and shooting jacketed bullets. Not all shooters move on into the realm of cast bullets - Shooting the full magnums at the end of range sessions is commonly done. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays..!! FC

[@johneasley2377]

My 1957 Ruger single six was leaded so bad I thought the barrel was worn out I removed it with 50-50 mix of white vinegar and peroxide. Let it soak in the barrel for 20 minutes. Scrubbed it right out.

[@smithywess1]

A different idea...if I cast bullets to the same diameter as my revolver chambers I'd never get the bullet into a case without splitting it. I shoot hollowbased bullets and size them to one thousandths of an inch over the barrel groove diameter. The skirt of the bullet has already obturated to the internal chamber diameter before it hits the barrel forcing cone and then obturates further as it passes this forcing cone. This is with 1:20 tin:lead cast alloy at a velocity of 750 f.p.s. I know it's a slow, soft bullet but there is no chamber or barrel leading at all.

[@slugmaster64]

Another great video! Fantastic narrative, FC!

[@danielhanson4326]

Letting in your barrel if you shoot jacketed around after you get let in your barrel. It irons the lead in and it's almost impossible to get out. I had a guy tell me one time. Tell me where you guys all stand that the gas check on a bullet scraped the ladder out of your barrel and I said, well, why don't they call it a lead scraper down instead of a gas check?

[@jot23nadaje]

Hi. Lets say I'll cast from wheel weights - proper lead. What sort of amounts of ammo I need to be aware of? I usually shoot 200 rounds per session. Always clean gun after. 200 cast bullets + 10fmj + cleaning. Would that keep me out of trouble? Is there a number we can talk about anyway? Great vids - keep on going.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

MultipurposeGuy - You could use the rule of thumb like 200/10, but your gun will tell you, and each is a bit of an individual. When you are just practicing, shoot until you notice a loss of accuracy caused by fouling or even light leading. You might refer to this as Stage 1 fouling. If shooting is continued, outright flyers will occur that you cannot blame on shooting technique = Stage 2 fouling. If shooting is continued, keyholing will be noticed = Stage 3 fouling. If shooting is still continued, all shots will be perverse and we have the severe leading of Stage 4 (rifling is being obliterated). Continued shooting will have a high probability of blowing up the gun = Stage 5 fouling. Getting to Stage 3 often takes 200-400 rounds. We ran into that a bit when we shot 500 rounds a night doing Steel Shooting. Note with some guns, getting from Stage 3 to Stage 5 might not take much. You can use any stage terminology or demarcation you wish... Best Regards, and good shootin' to ya...!! FC

[@Me2Lancer]

Well said, thanks for the clarification.

[@pr4runner]

Leading in Glock polygonal barrels?

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

pr4runner Leading can happen in Glock barrels, but it isn't supposed to happen since we don't shoot lead bullets in our Glock barrels. But if you've ever looked from all aspects at enough Glock barrels, lead streaks can happen in Glock barrels as well. But it really does clean out without too much trouble. That was one of the selling features of polygonal barrels - less fouling and easier cleaning. Funny when you hear that Glock Kabooms are caused by lead bullets in Glock "polygonal" barrels leading up. (if that were the case, all the other barrels with normal rifling that fouls worse would have blown up way before Glocks came along - no, there's another answer there). Best Regards

[@453421abcdefg12345]

I think this is a case where the "folk law" leads shooters to the belief that soft lead causes leading, leading usually occurs when hard lead bullets are shot though a barrel with mild charges of powder, the hard bullet does not obturate enough to seal the gasses, which force past the bullet, melting lead on the way, high pressure / velocity loads can cause problems with soft lead by causing "skidding" leaving slithers of lead in the barrel, so it is a compromise between pressure, and a bullet that will obturate enough to seal the barrel.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Englishman French AHA!! The Missouri Bullets Velocity (Hardness) Optimized bullet theme that I also use for my own cast bullets...we used to call that "skidding" "stripping"...means the same either way... Thanks for your comment. You could have done this video yourself...

[@mikemcnamee6030]

Englishman French Absolutely! In my early years of casting(just a few years back), I made many attempts at hardening the alloy/bullets to get away from leading. I didnt get good results until I went in the opposite direction to really soft bullets. IMO, clip on wheel weight alloy is too hard for low pressure stuff like 38spl and 45acp. I cut it 1:1 with dead soft lead.

[@BTeehanKnives]

Very good info brother. Great video as always.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Bryan Teehan Outdoors Thanks for your comment....appreciate it greatly...Have a fine day

[@1717jbs]

Outstanding! Thanks.

[@diktatoralexander88]

Oh boy, ya got Trouble! It starts with a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for Leading!

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

Diktator Alexander - Not only that - enough trouble with leading leads to Trouble with a capital T and get us plenty Teed off...!! Leading gives cast bullets a bad name, and we need to avoid that by not letting leading ever get bad enough... Good shootin' to ya, FC

[@gunnareriksen8756]

It's not always right.

[@gman77gas]

What did the Cowboys do back in the 1800's to get the lead out of the rifling?

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

gman77gas Just like Matt Dillon was always doing - Black powder had to clean the guns or they would rust. There was so much fouling in the barrels, leading was not even a concern. And the lever guns that have survived to this day all seem to have "dark" barrels...the bores are pretty well wasted... How's the fishing?

[@gman77gas]

Did Matt Dillon use Ballistol? : ) I bet all they had was Turpentine or Kerosene and/ or any oil they could get their hands on....and those who did not clean their guns ended up with a poor shooting gun and dead because they missed their target! I am heading to the cabin on the 29th...

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

gman77gas Matt Dillon would not have used Ballistol as it was developed just before WWI and heavily used by the Germans for all their metal, wood, and leather care and cleaning. May your time in the great outdoors be especially fruitful...

[@shotgundrums]

I have read Mercury (Hg) was used to remove sever lead by amalgamation.

[@FortuneCookie45LC]

shotgundrums That would certainly work. Back in the frontier days, though, that would have been a very expensive way to go as there wasn't much mercury on the frontier. As industrialization happened, mercury became more available (that was when mercury was used in thermometers and barometers). It really isn't toxic in it's 0 valence state and kids at schools even in the 60s and early 70s played with mercury in their hands as they studied the periodic table of elements - A metal that existed as a liquid was always interesting. Mercury was also one of the characters in the Metal Men comics - she was the only she amongst the Metal Men. It was only when ionic mercury was found in fish that the bad PR for mercury began. Yes, ionized mercury is toxic, just as ionized iron or ionized copper or any ionized metal is. But 0 valence iron, copper, etc is not toxic at all in our spoons and cooking pans and everywhere else. Lead, though, along with other metals like beryllium, nickel, cadmium, plutonium (even if it wasn't radioactive), is toxic just as it is. Lead is not dangerous when handled with the proper protocols. Best Regards to you