A broken or floating neutral and the effect in three phase electricity systems

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The Crazy ENTP

The Crazy ENTP

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 218
@ManjuDevi-tc5kj
@ManjuDevi-tc5kj 3 жыл бұрын
Never seen such type of video related to electrical , definitely it need more views . great explanation
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Glad it was helpful. For me I wished there was something like this when I learnt about floating neutrals.
@jeffreystroman2811
@jeffreystroman2811 Жыл бұрын
This example is regarding split phase, to be clear, years ago in a small farmhouse when my boiler kicked on the bulb on my ceiling went brighter for the short time the blower took to come up full speed. Normally the bulb went dimmer during this time. My former electronics instructor stopped by and rather than tell me, he watched me spend three days working thru different scenarios in my head. Eventually coming to the conclusion I had an open neutral I then went up a fiberglass ladder and fixed it. RIP Bill, you were one of the best especially considering all the rest.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
No this isn't a split phase system. That is a US concept not used in 230v / 400v systems. If we did we would end up with 200v and 400v (and possibly a high leg of 230v). Split phase the two phases are 180° out of phase whereas three phase they are 120° apart. Also the high leg system is a delta-delta transformer where we use delta-star transformers.
@srideepprasad
@srideepprasad 4 жыл бұрын
Very well explained..Your channel deserves more views
@johnchung6900
@johnchung6900 Жыл бұрын
excellent explanation. This explains why neutral is so needed to be connected on the mcb. Well done.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
Yes indeed! We all think the neutral isn't so important but it really is.
@plansimple9156
@plansimple9156 2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant and clear explanation with real demonstration kit, recommended to my mechanical colleagues who dun know electrical engineering
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you, glad I can help out.
@tedlahm5740
@tedlahm5740 Жыл бұрын
We expected the CURRENT TO CHANGE. Yet, you are showing us the voltage changes. thank you. First time seeing this with 3 phase system. 120 degrees out.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
Oh this three phase system is common all over. It's very efficient because it only needs one neutral. If you ever experience a neutral fault you will know because the voltages go wrong so quickly. Mostly people report damaged appliances and equipment due to high voltage.
@tedlahm5740
@tedlahm5740 Жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP Thank you. Still do not understand WHY the voltages go haywire? Do understand the CURRENT needing to be balanced BACK to the transformer.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
Check the calculations in the video description. V=IR So I=V/R I can't change as it haas to get back to the transformer and R is fixed by the devices connected. So the larger current coming on one phase will drop to get I to match with another phase with less load.
@rubultalukdar3861
@rubultalukdar3861 2 жыл бұрын
One of the best explanation of floating neutral I have seen
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@jhanzaibkhan3795
@jhanzaibkhan3795 3 жыл бұрын
Thanku sir you just cleared all the confusions in a single video which will not be done even in ten videos♥️
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, I'm glad it helped you. I know what you mean - when I was learning about this I also struggled and wished there was more on KZbin.
@dustindunphy
@dustindunphy 9 ай бұрын
This is a great video. I was arguing with a person on reddit about open or loaded neutrals. What I learned is if you'd have checked the voltage across the open neutral with imbalanced loads (40w and 77w) you still won't get more than 240 like you did across the yellow? I did a set up much like yours in my garage with 2 phases of 120v. Appreciate your video very good explanation!
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 9 ай бұрын
Ok so you're taking about US voltages in your case. I'm using 230v / 400v. Your phases are 120v / 240v. So you're correct - if you had a broken neutral, you'd find the voltages anywhere from 0v to 240v depending on the loads and resistance. Plus I reckon they would move all over the place as items start blowing up in a real life situation. I know you also use a system of plugs that share a common neutral so it could potentially happen that it affects just those sockets and not the whole installation. In my case it could be anywhere from 0v to 400v at the worst, which I've seen in real life where a transformer neutral came loose. Two phases were at 400v to neutral and the other had so much load it was just sitting at 0v. Hope this makes sense? Please reply if you're not sure on anything.
@dustindunphy
@dustindunphy 9 ай бұрын
@TheCrazyENTP his argument was that we can not get more than 120v on our neutral even if it is shared between phases because of how we derive our neutrals. Our 120/240 systems are "center tapped". So apparently the two phases can't "add up" on the neutral. Apparently it's the same for our Y type systems. When I tried in my garage the most I could get with different wattage bulbs was 56 volts on an open neutral but I wasn't sure what would happen with an even more unbalanced setup. Many of us are taught what I thought which is that the neutral could be carrying a bit more danger than the hots feeding it when working live. He's saying we're idiots, but I think he might be right.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 9 ай бұрын
I think he doesn't understand electricity. If the neutral breaks and you have a load on one phase only then it won't run (unless it finds a way back through TN-C-S earthing), so th neutral will be at phase value. If you tested to the other phase (assuming no load running) you would read 240v. But as soon as you add load to the second phase the voltages will shift. The current (amps) have to get back to source and the resistance remains the same, so the voltage will be all over the place. It's basically putting the loads in series between phases then. Again, I've seen 400v phase to neutral in real life so it is possible. It blew so much stuff in probably 120 houses!
@sanjeen2503
@sanjeen2503 4 жыл бұрын
Great demonstration! You're very articulate. Note: India uses RYB colours for the phases.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Yes India is also using the old British colours like we use in South Africa (and likely also other countries in Southern Africa). The same for Australia and New Zealand. Red White Blue Red Yellow Blue I still think it's the best colour system. The colours Red Yellow Blue are noticeable. The new European ones (Brown Black Grey) are too dull and don't show the "dangerous" wires as easily.
@sanjeen2503
@sanjeen2503 4 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP Oh didn't know about EU system. What's the basis of choosing such colours, though? I can't think of any.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 4 жыл бұрын
It's part of the harmonisation in Europe. I believe most European countries used brown and black in some combination before. So Brown Black Black or maybe Black with Brown stripe. The neutral was always blue. This is why you find appliances have brown and blue cabtyre cables. So the UK agreed to use brown and black but they requested grey to identify the third phase. It will be chaos in the UK now because blue went from a phase to neutral and black went from neutral to phase. The US has different voltages, but they use Red Black Blue for three phase 120/208 and neutral is white! They have so many voltages on offer though, it gets very complicated.
@miguellopes9959
@miguellopes9959 3 жыл бұрын
Great explanation. Your videos really inspired me to take eletric engineering. Thanks
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Fantastic! I hope you will have a great career ahead of you.
@maz1984
@maz1984 4 жыл бұрын
awsom video, a lot of rotary phase converters are built with floating neutral and this explained the potential issues with that design. thank you
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
I'm not sure what the result woukd be there, but I assume as long as the neutral is connected where needed it should be fine. Cheaper generators also have a floating neutral, so in South Africa those are not allowed to be connected to the grid ornhouse wiring ever due to the possibility of a shock. Mostly rotary phase converters connect directly to the machine being used, so no risk there. I'd be careful connecting one to the building wiring. Probably better to upgrade to 3 phase from the supply company.
@solutec1977
@solutec1977 3 жыл бұрын
Perfect Demostration of a broken Neutral Keep Up the Great Videos
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much
@ohmz6192
@ohmz6192 3 жыл бұрын
Wow, this is my best video so far I've ever watched about electricity. Thank you for this detailed explanation
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@deonmomberg3732
@deonmomberg3732 3 жыл бұрын
By replacing one lamp with a heater element will cause the lamp to blow as the voltage over lower wattage device to approach 3phase voltage of 400V. Great video also applicable to South Africa.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Yes indeed, the greater the difference in the load, the more the voltages shift. The three phase voltages change because the current wants to be equal between all the phases. BUT interestingly, in the real world where they have the neutral earthed, those earths help keep the voltages more stable as long as the break in neutral is not at the transformer. Had a street supply here with broken neutral. Two phases went to 275v and the other to 179v. Only the people on the low phase complained about it being low. No one else reported any damages and it was like that for 2 days!
@russellteejaymolina6736
@russellteejaymolina6736 3 жыл бұрын
Does it mean when the neutral conductor was removed, the currents thas was originally flowing has to go back to the source somehow. Does it mean at least one or two of the three phases will become as a return conductor for the unbalance currents.and that they are doing this in round robin fashion as time goes by. This is just my Idea. Hope to see more clarity on what will happen to unbalance currents when neutral conductor is removed.
@shishirkhanal9131
@shishirkhanal9131 3 жыл бұрын
very practial knowledge..keep doing such creative experiments
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, going to do more for you soon.
@ForwardGuidance
@ForwardGuidance 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent demonstration. Thank you.
@Mutantcy1992
@Mutantcy1992 3 жыл бұрын
Wow never thought about this, great explanation
@lewis94uk
@lewis94uk 3 жыл бұрын
Great video, I have been doing electricial work for years and never fully understand the danger of a dropped neutral in three phase, although I have seen the affects, multiple power supplies for cameras blown up.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Another complaint you may find in TN-C-S (possibly TN-S too) is that people complain about shocks from their taps or from appliances along with dim lights.
@Sp1der44
@Sp1der44 Жыл бұрын
This video was very 'illuminating" 😋 good explanation indeed.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
Lol! Thank you.
@hussain55019
@hussain55019 4 жыл бұрын
You deserve more likes and subscriptions I holds MS degree in electrical engineering but I wasn't clear on that concept.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@jeff451-yp7so
@jeff451-yp7so Жыл бұрын
Fantastic explanation here. Thanks very much!
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
You're most welcome
@sumeshkumar2785
@sumeshkumar2785 2 жыл бұрын
I'm just this video Seen. Very well done.230v A ഉപകരണം 415When the voltage comes, there is no damage
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
If you get anything above say 270 volt, everything starts suffering. Voltage is like water pressure, so more pressure means something has to give in the end. You can hear chargers and fluorescent lights start humming more as the voltage goes up, so louder humming at 250 volt than at say 220 volt. Personally I would like to keep between 220 volt and 240 volt range, but I get more 210 volt to 235 volt range.
@utubevtps
@utubevtps 4 жыл бұрын
Excellent. Very clear... Great job
@rossmurdoch1886
@rossmurdoch1886 3 жыл бұрын
Well explained thanks for the little demo much clearer than a whiteboard
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, glad I could share.
@fareedsarumoh4401
@fareedsarumoh4401 3 жыл бұрын
Outstanding explanation.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, glad you liked it.
@anoimo9013
@anoimo9013 3 жыл бұрын
nice and easy demostration
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@tedlahm5740
@tedlahm5740 Жыл бұрын
Wonderful content. Understand the load can be SERIES with 2 loads on 3 phase. Unfortunately STILL do not comprehend (mathematical) why the VOLTAGE jumps up with Unbalanced Open neutral.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
I think you need to go back to basics with V=IR formula. To understand exactly what it means and how it works. Then look at delta star transformers. How they use incoming two phases to make a phase and a neutral then repeat that twice more. Red white phase makes red with neutral White blue makes white with neutral Blue red makes blue with neutral Neutrals are connected to make the star point. So if the neutral is broken the current has to go back somehow. Into the broken neutral and back out through another phase or phases. This means you're connecting loads across phases. So the voltage is determined by the current and resistance. The single phase voltages are not fixed like the phase to phase voltages where the neutral is broken because you've lost the star reference. Phase to phase will only change if there is an incooming phase down or a change in MV voltage (which changes the single phase voltage too).
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
It may help you to see how the US Delta Delta transformers with high leg work. A neutral created between two phases at 240 v gives a 120v system but also three phase of 240v and a high leg of 208v
@125kudzi
@125kudzi 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks it simple and straight forward
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it. Thank you for the reply.
@icemanA84
@icemanA84 3 жыл бұрын
Witnessed this on a bigger scale, a caravan park over head supply line had neutral feed break off in a storm on Boxing Day a couple years ago it resulted in a lot of damaged equipment.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Yes I've had the same at my house. The neutral fell loose at the transformer and within a minute quite a few items had blown up. Many houses suffered damages. I would guess we had two phases near the 400v level.
@somyaranjanjena601
@somyaranjanjena601 2 жыл бұрын
Clearly explained about the topic 👍🏽
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@AMAL_JOY.
@AMAL_JOY. 4 жыл бұрын
a salute from india sir great job
@whenniceguysretaliate5619
@whenniceguysretaliate5619 3 жыл бұрын
Really great video. Thanks.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much
@Magneticitist
@Magneticitist 2 жыл бұрын
Great demonstration
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@GhoolSaleh
@GhoolSaleh 2 жыл бұрын
Great explanation 🌹
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
Thank you
@AmitKumar-ub6zl
@AmitKumar-ub6zl 3 жыл бұрын
loved the way you explained and awesome job bro .looking forward to more such videos
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@kristofferbrink2689
@kristofferbrink2689 2 жыл бұрын
Great video! I got a lot to learn about it still, but it was a very good video!
@jkmultimediasolutions3935
@jkmultimediasolutions3935 2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic presentation !
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@patrickjacobsen7805
@patrickjacobsen7805 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you sir 👏👏👏
@gowthampavanaskar1889
@gowthampavanaskar1889 3 жыл бұрын
Really great work 👍. Thank you
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@FlowerSofie
@FlowerSofie 3 жыл бұрын
Fm from NETH. But now on the Belgium/Fr border , but the voltage was on the same line as the heater at night-time 23.30 ,fluct. between 213/217 all the time , now daytime 10.45 between 221and 236 on this, more towards So this morning I put the latest digital meter on (sampling rate 3 x p/sec. ) I put it on several points ( schokking ) day time between 11.00 and 13.00 fm 222 to 254 all the time up and down , also put a other one on permanence in the kitchen same socket as the microwave ( this meter is one of those witch we call “ scorpion clamp “ for measuring around a cable ,and is also dig. that range 223 to 247 in the same 3hours. If the microwave goes on ,up/down of only 3v. So far this part of info. Next I like if possible to point out “ I DO NOT HAVE A “NEUTRAL” AT ALL “ and that is giving me some of my “ self thought “ theoretical explanation that goes as follows ( pls stay with me ,if still possible ) the fact is that I think you could say that the particular peace of electrical equipment is starting to work , when put on and than actually start “ normal situation “ to work between “ phase “ (1) and a “ neutral “. I see than a consuming between these two almost without any problem , in that NORMAL kind of set-up , me = only 3 x 240 (suppose to be ? ! ,often not ) BUT ..... in my case the cooperation is ( you can say ) COMPLETELY out of order ,the charge for the functioning is now depending on the wire that’s within the equipment Is the closets to the highest !! resistor fm that equipment {“ partially I have even proof of that by changing the wires from their position in the socket or equipment and than see that the other prone started to melt down “ } , so it is as the equipment charge start to look around to a not available “ neutral “ and causing ( to my partial theoretical analyse “) a much higher heat development in “ the extra activity “ to find a release to a NOT available neutral and therefore have to use the FALSE neutral, who in reality is also a 2(2)40 fase , and my idea is that gives a extra heat ? Development (to be proved by proper measurement and eventually visible inside ,I think ) And that in basic is , that I am looking for solutions which I have found in part of your “on/of “ neutral explanation ,which is s great visible explanation . Really I would like find a University or such ,to make this visible , and clear out why indeed the prone(s) , several ones ,melt down ....and it is absolutely NOT of loose or badly connected wire(s) and also the thickness of the wire(s) , I even picked in the several a thicker wire/cable ,and have seen close to the final points in the equipment or plug or wall connections heavy discoloring , melting and even the copper loosing its metal stature ,in the form of almost crumbling , and even disappearing partially on the connected screw(s) with the logical result of not working equipment than. Because for that part I was a radio/radar tech ( RNLAF) and special within the big transmitters and radar you have to make sure that every screw and nut is for sure properly thight even a lot with the exact amount of pressure . So are for sure my stuf is done almost in the same matter , and more less for now the replacement of the plugs on the heater,dryer,wasmachine ,welding post, air compressor and diverse wall sockets goes on , naturally with the variation of the amount of time of using them more or less frequently. Well so far my results/experience . Thanks for the last reply , and now possibly reading and commenting if , maybe you like send it other wise to P...........s@gmail.com
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Sorry the email address is removed in your comment. I don't understand how you have no neutral and have 230 volt supply. That only happens in the USA with 2 x 120v supply. The standard in my video shown I to have three phases (live wires) and a neutral. Any phase should be around 230 volt to a neutral wire and any phase to another phase will be around 415v. The range you get is ok but it is changing a lot. I can't see how it would cause melting or burning though. Mine goes from 234v to 200v at the worst. Mostly around 220v to 229v most of the day. Do you have single or three phase supply? Can you send a photo of your distribution board with breakers or the electricity meter on Telegram to username Perrin7?
@nikmalve9314
@nikmalve9314 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome, very well explained.
@seimela
@seimela 2 жыл бұрын
This concept is mostly said theoretically, I haven't come across this un this more practical sense of it.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. In reality it won't be as "neat". When a neutral fails, the voltages will just keep jumping around all over as things blow up or motors cut in and out, changing the voltages all the time while trying to balance the amps equally between all the phases.
@TIGREinVOLO
@TIGREinVOLO 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Simple yet great. Would you be so kind to explain the same from a mathematical point of view? That would be very useful. Thank you
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, I have just added more at the bottom of the description to help explain this Please have a look and let me know.
@mb-electricalservices
@mb-electricalservices 3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant!! 👌
@saadshahab1403
@saadshahab1403 3 жыл бұрын
So on point 🔥
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you 😊
@FlowerSofie
@FlowerSofie 3 жыл бұрын
You showing the different outcome fm the different lamps ,makes for me some kind of prove that we moved and had first neutral+ 3 x 240 now we have only 3 x 215 (schould be 220) BUT no neutral , I noticed that with almost the exactly the same setup we use also MORE electricity , and even we went (from , like your lamps old ) to changed to Led’s all over the house ,also because we started noticing regular faster blown lamps. And a new strange problem started to arrive that one prone of the wall sockets started to be burned/melted on the more electricity consuming households equipment ,washer/dryer small 1000Watt heater ,in the shop my big circle-saw wall socket . Also when functioning most the times , it clearly feels when you pull the plug and one of the pins is very hot and even partial cable feels warm/hot . After certain time I need to replace the plug on the cable and later also the wall socket ,the electricity company ,say I have to solve my internal house problems ,but do naturally not agree. Do you (beside this excellent Y.T ) have maybe some more inside about the problem ,sorry to ask . We are with 14 households connected to a 3 x220 ( from the last WW. placed by the Germans ) transformer ,and they told me (elec. comp) they won’t change it , do you have a good technical explanation to possible confront them with ? pls, if not , no problem I look further ,thanks Pete
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Hello Pete. I assume you are in Germany? So yes you will have 3 x 230 volt to neutral or 400v between two phases. The 220v is a bit low but still allowed as long as it is 207v to 253v range. Since this video they have turned mine down to 230v because other houses were too high. The first thing to ask: Did you measured the voltage you are getting? Is that confirmed 215v? Does it change a lot when you use the heater? If I used 1000w heater it would drop 2 volt only at the meter and maybe 4v to 6v at the heater socket. If it changes by more than 10v for that heater I would say something is wrong with the neutral. Did you notice any lights going really bright or really dim at any times or maybe even flickering. Or do you notice any equipment burning out? That would indicate a neutral fault somewhere. The melting plug is probably a bad connection, so may be an old socket or plug. I don't think the old transformer is a problem as long as it is working. The transformer for my street is also very old. Probably from 1950s. Some places here (Johannesburg, South Africa) they are even older.
@madhumatinarule4489
@madhumatinarule4489 3 жыл бұрын
It's really greatttttt do upload such a more and more thnx👍👍
@sunjayjay240
@sunjayjay240 3 жыл бұрын
wonderful explanation what is the remedy? should we have separate neutral for each phase??? domestic 3ph wiring. but confusion is we get one neutral only please explain
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
You'll need to study how three phase power works. But basically a star transformer means the secondary side has one side of each coil connected together to form the neutral (star point). The three phases are out of phase by 120° on purpose, so all three cancel each other out to give zero. That means if the loads are identical (like where my bulbs are the same) then there is no current on the neutral. That is rare though, so usually the neutral carries some load. Recently I checked a local substation street feed, and the phases each had over 200 amp running, but because they were closely balanced, the neutral only has 20 amp coming back! The best solution to prevent appliance damage from a lost neutral is a voltage monitor that cuts off power if the voltage is out of range (say 255v and 185v maximum or whatever you choose). The reaction time is 0.1 seconds which is more than fast enough.
@nbkk771
@nbkk771 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent xplanation
@nateo200
@nateo200 Жыл бұрын
You had me an ENTP + Electricity lol
@154electrician
@154electrician 10 ай бұрын
Would there be any voltage on the neutral cable when it's broken?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 9 ай бұрын
Yes there would be a potential on the load side broken neutral relative to the earth or the neutral connected to the transformer. You can actually use that as a way to test for a faulty joint. Check for a voltage on the neutral on either side of the joint with loads on and if you see abything above zero that it the faulty joint. Same I guess with a joint on a phase. If you see a potential across a joint, there is your problem.
@hussain55019
@hussain55019 4 жыл бұрын
Simply superb love you.if I provide neutral from ground in my home will it work
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 4 жыл бұрын
If the neutral is already broken it's not likely to work using the ground, but it depends on your earthing system used in your country as well as how good the ground is as conducting electricity. It's likely you'll end up with voltages that are still too high or too low. In a TN-C-S system earth and neutral are bonded any way, so people usually start complaining of shocks from metal such as taps and appliances. Can be very dangerous, even kill you.
@steveblacksun7964
@steveblacksun7964 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much, great explaination. Unfortunately we can't do these experiments in university because of COVID.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
You're welcome. Hope we can all be back to normal soon enough.
@BerHarSenSam
@BerHarSenSam Жыл бұрын
Hi there, Thanks for this great video and informative explanation. Would you please advise on the following. If a neutral wire breaks on three phase power supply, within a DB with RCD is installed in, would that RCD trip off and cut the power off. Thank you.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
Hello. Sorry for the late reply. The RCD won't trip from over voltage, but if you have any surge arrestors after the RCD they should earth the high voltage and that would trip the RCD. Better option is some sort of overvoltage monitoring device that shuts off the power. I'm actually dealing with a neutral issue like the video with my neighbour. It's the power company issue but they can't find the fault. Their house does not trip as no surge arrestors.
@la1electric278
@la1electric278 3 жыл бұрын
good video keep it up!!!!!!!!!!!
@Squire1998
@Squire1998 2 жыл бұрын
First of all, fantastic video - but can I ask you for clarification on something? At 7:21 when you switch out the red phase (but before you switch out the neutral), why is the voltage between the yellow and blue phase measuring as high as 423V, instead of 415V (or something close to 415V)? As long as the Neutral conductor isn't broken and is able to carry the imbalance current back to the star point, shouldn't the phase voltages across each load remain constant/be identical? (As in 240V phase to neutral/415V phase to phase)? In other words, I understand why the voltages across each load vary when the neutral is lost from the circuit but I don't understand why the line voltage at 7:21 seems to be quite high.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Hello, sorry for the long wait. The voltage at 423v is because the transformer was set at around 245v phase to neutral to accommodate voltage drop on the longer runs where blue phase used to be too low at times. This video was done late at night so the load was minimal and so voltages were higher. The 423v works out to 244v phase to neutral which is theoretically still in the range 207v to 253v. 423 ÷ √3 = 244.219v But yes since this video they have turned down the transformer, first to 225v which was too low so the end of the line got 205v at time and now to 235v. The phases have also been balanced again which helps a lot.
@Squire1998
@Squire1998 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP Ah I see, that makes sense. Thank you for taking the time to respond. It is much appreciated.
@ir1613
@ir1613 3 жыл бұрын
Great videos. But if you could measure the current too, it will be awsome. BTW, could you show us how it can be proved theoritically by calculation?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Please see the video description. The calculations are given there because a few people have asked. The current here will be equal between all bulbs. It has to be to keep the sum of three phase to zero.
@rizafaisal2537
@rizafaisal2537 2 жыл бұрын
Great video. Sir, please help me. How much unbalanced current allowed on load side when using 3 phase diesel generator as supply?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Riza I'm not sure exactly what percentage on a generator, but I would say try to get the best balance you can. I guess it will be 20 % to 30%. I'd say if you have too much imbalance the generator will have to work harder through that particular coil then be too fast on the others so the Hertz won't be as smooth and may also cause mechanical wear. Electrically you'll need to keep voltages within the 207v to 253v range and imbalance may affect that as well as the 400v range. Remember you should keep to a 2% maximum average variance on phase to phase for motors. So 390v 395v and 400v is still just in range but 385v 395v and 400v is out of that range. Google "three phase voltage imbalance calculator" and use the Tecumseh site to see if you're in range. Let me know how you go Regards, Pierre
@rizafaisal2537
@rizafaisal2537 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP Thank You so much Sir. Your advice very helpful. I'll search more references about it and let you know about it. Actually I've ever had bad experience, when I only used 2 phase out of 3 phase on diesel generator. It broken down in 8 hours. I never thought voltage unbalanced/current unbalanced very important after I watch your video. Thank you so much Sir Best Regards, Riza
@masterggm844
@masterggm844 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent content!
@Sidg2
@Sidg2 2 жыл бұрын
Sir, the 3 phase secondary winding of the local distribution transformer (415v) is star connected and the output common neutral point is also grounded below the transformer. But how the current & voltage which are generated in the winding comes to our house after following the long path while they should go directly to the ground below the transformer from the neutral point of the transformer as current follows the shortest and least resistive path. Even if there is some resistance in between transformer's neutral point and Earth, still atleast some amount of current from the transformer should leak directly from the neutral point to the ground, but why this not happens ?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Sorry I'm not sure I understand correctly. Are you asking why the power flows from live and back to neutral instead of through the ground? Well, like you said it is a three phase transformer, so the current flows from a phase to the neutral and then meets currents from other phases. These will cancel each other out and only the difference flows on the neutral to the transformer. I have photos on a street feed here by the transformer where the currents I measured were: Red 157 A Yellow 136 A Blue 113 A Neutral 19 A You can see the neutral isn't much load. This is why we must balance phases as much as we can. There might be some going to the ground but the ground resists a lot. Electricity likes to follow the easiest path.
@Sidg2
@Sidg2 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP No, i am only taking about transformer side. The neutral point in transformer where three phases get shorted and connected with ground below the transformer and also goes to consumers houses. Why current not directly goes to Earth from transformer neutral point instead of long loop from consumer houses. Please re-read my above question (only taking about transformer side).
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Yes then this is what I am describing. Electricity only flows where there is a circuit. Do you understand the different types of earthing? I think you need to read about IT earthing where there is no earth connection or a very high resistance earth maybe. There you will see a person touching a live phase WILL NOT get a shock. Why? Because there is no connection of the neutral to earth at the transformer. So the same with earthing the neutral at the transformer. Where will the electricity go to? Nowhere because there is no circuit. The only electricity coming in to that earth is any leakage from devices connected downstream. Even here I have seen two transformers fed from different 88kV supplies but the same 275kV supply. The neutral of both 415v sides were linked overhead. Then the one transformer neutral failed and the voltages went wrong very quickly like in my video. The electricity doesn't flow back to the other transformer neutral or via the ground and keep the voltage correct. It goes back via connected appliances on different phases still sharing the broken neutral piece, forcing the current to balance (so with V=IR if R stays the same and I has to go back, then V will change to match and hence the high or low voltage customers will see).
@psrandhawa1364
@psrandhawa1364 2 жыл бұрын
Very important thing we ignore in Home Three phase supply.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Yes any three phase supply. Lose the neutral and lots of damage occurs
@okaro6595
@okaro6595 2 жыл бұрын
If the neural breaks upstream from where is is connected to the earth wire the voltage on it will go to the earth wire and to all equipment cases.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Yes this is true for TN-C-S earthing and possibly TN-S depending where the break occurs, and can be deadly as there is no way to switch off to prevent electrocution. But it is not an issue for TT and IT earthing.
@chasingexcellence6646
@chasingexcellence6646 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much for the video. Can you explain why imbalanced load on broken neutral causes voltage surge and sag , in a theological manner too?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, I have just added more at the bottom of the description to help explain this Please have a look and let me know.
@chasingexcellence6646
@chasingexcellence6646 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP thank you! I thought in Y connection 3ph circuit, when neutral line is out, line current from two phases will loop back to the power source from the third phase, therefore making the I3 = I1+ I2. Your comment however says I1=I2=I3. Am I wrong here?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
No, you have to remember that the electricity system runs on three phases all the way up to the last transformer where they introduce the neutral. Three phase still comes out of the last transformer along with a neutral. So if you have phase 1 and neutral for your house, you are actually being supplied by phase 1 and phase 2 on the medium volt side. The neutral is a common connection on the windings of the low voltage side. So inside the transformer they have three cores. On the MV side they have the windings connected: phase 1 to phase 2 (A) phase 2 to phase 3 (B) phase 3 to phase 1 (C) On the low voltage side they have the windings: (A) phase 1 to neutral (B) phase 2 to neutral (C) phase 3 to neutral So if the electricity can't get back to the transformer via the neutral it will go back through another phase. Remember the phases are 120° out of phase with each other and because it is AC there is no one direction. They alternate with each other. So the current doesn't flow from two and out the last one. It's a matter of potential difference, how much potential there is for flow. The missing neutral forms a star point with a new zero. So current from: phase 1 has to go back through phase 2 and 3 phase 2 goes back through 1 and 3 phase 3 goes back through 1 and 2. But all paths mean going through another bulb, so they all share a portion of all that work, otherwise there would be missing current. It does this regardless of what voltages result. Hope this makes sense?
@chasingexcellence6646
@chasingexcellence6646 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP in short, feeder transfer has Delta-Y 3ph connection, and feeder to load is Y-Y connection with neutral. Line current = Phase current = phase voltage / phase load. When neutral line is removed, line current 1 = line voltage (1-2)/ (L1+L2) + line voltage (1-3) = sqrt (3)*phase voltage / (L1+ L2) + sqrt(3)*phase voltage /(L1+L3). Beware of phase angle when calculate. Phase voltage 1= Line current 1* L1, which as result maybe different than phase v on L2 or L3. Correct?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
I think the problem is that you will be trying to hit a moving target with calculations. In my video it's very basic to show how the voltages will be out of range when the neutral fails. Simple bulbs and no change to the loads connected. In the real world you are likely to end up with voltages fluctuating all over and very quickly depending what still runs or what blows up.
@elc2k385
@elc2k385 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Sir.
@rajibadhya8653
@rajibadhya8653 4 жыл бұрын
awesome....fantastic
@Sidg2
@Sidg2 2 жыл бұрын
I have a curious question (not related to this video). Suppose if their is a 2m long un-insulated wire. One end is connected in Line socket and other end is open. What will happen if open end of wire connect with itself at a point on mid length, will their is a short circuit or nothing will happen ?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Hello Thank you for the question. If you take the wire and touch the end anywhere on the same piece of bare wire nothing will happen. There is no potential difference on the wire for there to be a short circuit. Think of it this way: To have a circuit, power needs to flow from live to neutral. If you just have live and you touch it to itself, there is no complete circuit so nothing happens. The short only happens if live touches neutral or earth (or a live from a different phase, but that is getting more technical).
@Sidg2
@Sidg2 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP then in case of binding in motor or transformer, why it get short? I was thinking that due to heat when thin wire binding coating removes, it touches itself and get short. If this is not how binding get short then how?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Oh yes, but this is different. Here you have a wire that connects from live to neutral, not just open on one end. So there can be a potential difference somewhere. In this case you can get two possible results depending on where the wire touches itself: 1. The wire touches itself only a short distance apart in the windings. The motor or transformer may just lose a bit of power until further failure develops likely from this being a bad connection (gets hot). 2. The wires touch a long distance apart in the windings, creating a short circuit and failure. This is because in essence you'll have a very short length between the live and neutral (or two phases) of the windings. Does this make sense? It's different from a wire just floating with no connection on the other end. Another example to compare: If you look at high voltage overhead power lines, they sometimes run two wires next to each other for the same phase. They don't short because they are the same phase. Even if on breaks and touches the other, there is no short, only overloading the remaining wire. But you'll see they have a big space between different phases as there is a potential for an arc to occur if the gap between the wires is too small. It's all down to potential difference.
@Sidg2
@Sidg2 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP Thanks for clearing my this doubt. I have a one more doubt related to Earth and phase. All large appliances have Earth wire connected to their metallic body. If due to some reason, phase wire touch with appliance body and body get current it passes through Earth wire and people don't get shock. But my question is why their is no short circuit happen ? As we know that when phase wire touch with neutral or Earth without any resistance between them, a short circuit will happen but why not in this case ?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
The simple answer is that is a short circuit and something should trip. A live to earth fault is meant to short and trip out to protect from shocks. The long answer is there are many reasons why it doesn't trip. Do you have RCD protection? Should trip for 30 milliamp leakage. This is the most important protection needed. What type of system earthing is used? There may be high resistance so a circuit breaker doesn't trip (such as TT earthing or maybe faulty wiring). Example the incoming beaker at 80 amps needs a lot of current to trip. This is where TN-C-S is better earthing. Are you familiar with the types of earthing? Also maybe a faulty earth on the appliance is possible.
@russellteejaymolina6736
@russellteejaymolina6736 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent demo and very well explained sir. I just have a question regarding the flow of currents when imbalance of loads occur where neutral conductor is not present, where does the unbalance current flow returning to the source, it might be better to run the video again with clamp meter to each phase.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, I have just added more at the bottom of the description to help explain this Please have a look and let me know.
@russellteejaymolina6736
@russellteejaymolina6736 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the response, I find the mathematical solution so great I have never heard explanation like the one you did, back up by experiment and also consistent with ohm's law, this is great! This remind us that nature find their own way to balance things out. I want to have follow up question if you don't mind sir. In the experiments, all loads are resistive in nature and at different values with broken neutrals resulted to different phase voltages to make phase currents equal and eventually cancel out in the common point, but since these loads are resistive, the 120 degrees phase angle between currents won't get change, please correct me if I'm wrong, in the case where unbalance loads compose of reactive and resistive components of different values, will the voltages adjust themselves in the same manner, since phase currents will now be out of phase not by 120 degrees anymore and will the phase currents still cancells out to zero in the commont point.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, I'm glad I can help. When I was trying to understand this, there weren't any resources to help me. I struggled for a while to comprehend it. So, it becomes quite complicated where other types of loads are introduced. Resistive are the easiest for the demonstration because the resultant voltage stays the same as you see. If motors are used, they are likely to be larger loads, so the voltage will drop on that phase and the motor will stall. The capacitor will try to restart adding to the drop. The motor may start or may lock, it all depends on what the voltages do. If the phase is not highly loaded and the motor was on already, it will keep going but again will be part of the current balancing. So higher voltage will be forced through the motor which will cause it to fail. Everything fails at high overvoltage. I've see a real life situation where an air conditioner was running when the neutral was stolen. Only the fan inside was on at the time as was fine. As soon as the outdoor compressor tried to start, the voltage obviously dropped, causing the contactor to disengage, the voltage went up and the contactor engaged, the voltage dropped again and the contactor disengaged. Noww this all happened so fast that is was a chattering sound, around 4 to 6 repeats per second! Surprisingly the unit did start during this and worked for a while till the problem was noticed a few minutes later, but after a few weeks the compressor burnt out. In another instance the homeowner reported her house lights suddenly went very bright and then very dim and then bright. She switched off the main immediately and luckily had no damages. What would happen with the phase angles is a guess and depends on what loads are connected. They will be all over the place changing by the second until something blows from overvoltage. The whole time the system will be forcing the balanced current, so it's likely the voltages will also be all over the place. I must try to do a video with two resistive loads and a motor. Will need some large halogen lights and a 500 watt motor. Of course any three phase motors won't care as the phase to phase voltages don't change when a neutral is lost.
@russellteejaymolina6736
@russellteejaymolina6736 3 жыл бұрын
Your video is of great help as it opens up the doubts on its theoretical approach, that is why I am very thankful to see such videos, there is so much learning behind your video and that is why I look forward on the incoming videos that you will post soon.,I'd like to recommed the use of clamp meter for the line conductors just to see the actual current flow on them. Here in the Philippines most ressidential even in my house are utilizing Line-to-grounded conductor, or sometimes they say Line to Neutral. We are at 230V, 60Hz. Only commercial buildings uses three phase most of the time. I'd like really to run the experiment by myself but I have a challenge in having the three phase source and that is why I was lucky to have your video and I was very thankful on that. Thank you sir and will wait for your next post of video, please consider also balance and unbalance delta configurations, cheers.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
In your case, you are on of the three phases from the supply side. So if the neutral breaks out on the supply side you and your neighbours will have a situation where your houses will be like the light bulbs with voltages anywhere from 0 to 400 volts.
@washerdryeradvicechannel8041
@washerdryeradvicechannel8041 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
My pleasure!
@Sidg2
@Sidg2 2 жыл бұрын
I have a query. In three phase unbalanced load condition some current will flow through neutral wire & go to ground as return path through nearby distribution transformer, Right! Q1. Does the current in neutral wire only go to one direction (i.e., to ground) or it also change its direction in neutral wire like other 3 phases? Q2. During unbalanced load condition when neutral wire have some current flowing through it to ground, does it have some voltage or high voltage ? Q3. During unbalanced load condition when current flowing through neutral, if a person touch it will he get shocked ?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Hello. It all depends on many factors. Where the neutral breaks. What sort of earthing system is used. Ground resistance. I assume you mean TN-C-S earthing if you talk about current flowing via the ground. If the neutral breaks on the line away from the transformer, the customers after the break will have voltage issues, but it may not be that extreme since some of the current will flow via the ground as you mentioned. But the ground is usually far more resistive than the appliances sharing the broken neutral, so the current is likely to flow mostly through them and only some to ground. I can't say exactly but I would assume the houses before the break will also buffer the voltage by returning current to neutral via their appliances. I have seen a real life case of this where houses went for many days and never exceeded 280 volts on two phases and 179 volts on the last phase. Only one house complained because the smart meter kept switching off and we discovered the fault when investigating the cause. Other houses didn't notice. But was this the ground or the remaining good houses is hard to say without more investigation. Then I have seen where the neutral failed at the transformer connection and the voltages went skew very quickly. Appliances blew up in seconds. But there was no ground path in this case as the whole load side was separated from the transformer star point. The current obviously didn't want to return via other transformers nearby. Alternating current or AC means it will.always flow both ways all the time. It swaps direction 50 times a second per phase and phases are out of phase with each other. The neutral is only meant to carry the imbalance of the three phases. So in the broken neutral the amps on all three phases have to be equal which is why the voltage goes wrong. V=IR formula. If there is a broken neutral yes it is common for people to get shocks from taps or appliances if using TN-C-S because there is now a voltage difference between the star point of the transformer which is earthed and the voltage of the broken neutral which is floating.
@Sidg2
@Sidg2 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP You misunderstood my questions. I was talking for normal case when every thing is fine and neutral is also connected, just the loads are unbalanced which is obvious in daily life. Please re-read my questions and consider the neutral wire connected.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Apologies, I thought it was related to the video. In a normal situation as you say the neutral will always carry the unbalanced current which varies as loads vary. Unless the ground is a really good conductor in an area, I doubt much would flow via the ground. Have a look at videos where they test the resistance of an earth rod in a TT system. They often get a high reading. Since the neutral is grounded at minimum of the transformer side, the neutral itself should have no voltage relative to the earth. So when you say does it have high or low voltage, do you mean relative to the ground, because that is going to be zero and you shouldn't get a shock from it. Even those guys who work on high voltage powerlines don't get shocks if they touch two lines on the same phase because there is no potential difference. If you think about it, if you have a TN-C-S system or TN-S system, every earthed item is connected to the neutal of the transformer whether at source or at the meter, and we don't get shocks from those when operating normally. So in answer you shouldn't get a shock from touching a neutral in theory. The only time I hear of shocks from taps or earthed appliances is when the neutral is broken.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Here the linesmen are touching two wires with no issues kzbin.info/www/bejne/pXOtqqx7dtxgbMk
@Sidg2
@Sidg2 2 жыл бұрын
@The Crazy ENTP Thanks for reply. I still have doubt of Q1 regarding direction of current flow in neutral wire. Actually I see a video in which current flow simulation show of a 3-phase AC circuit. When load is unbalanced some current flows through neutral but it is not in only one direction towards ground, it is flowing in both directions (forward & backward). But you said when neutral is connected and load is unbalanced, current will flow through neutral in only one direction (i.e., towards ground). See from 2:00 minutes kzbin.info/www/bejne/mGrLdXt9rcaonK8
@tedlahm5740
@tedlahm5740 Жыл бұрын
The SUM of the current on the neutral is zero on a balanced 3 phase load.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
It's very rare to find a balanced three phase load where you have single phases involved. But I have seen a street feed running phases at hundreds of amps with only 20 amps coming back on the neutral.
@teeno9740
@teeno9740 3 жыл бұрын
please im a little bit confused ... why did the other bulb switch off when you removed the one on the left...
@guganv507
@guganv507 3 жыл бұрын
Without neutral - SINGLE BULB NOT GLOW, EITHER TWO OR THREE WILL GLOW With neutral- it will glow(on off can be made independent)
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
For electricity to flow there must be a complete path. So if the neutral is broken, the power goes through two bulbs in series, between two phases (Christmas tree lights are like this) rather than them being in parallel with a working neutral. Imagine the two bulbs on their own. One wire from each bulb goes to a phase, but the other wire is joined to the other wire from the bulb. That is what happens. So when one bulbs is blown or turned off, the other will stop too.
@elektroteknikelektronik402
@elektroteknikelektronik402 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
My pleasure
@Xxxcappie23
@Xxxcappie23 2 жыл бұрын
More videos on this subject. I'd like to see the comparison with a open neutral one a single phase circuit. Can you make more videos . Nice video. A area that trade schools fail to teach or demonstrate properly!
@pranavv9374
@pranavv9374 3 жыл бұрын
coudnt this problem be solved if the load is connected in delta
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Yes but single phase supplies are never connected in delta. 230 volt is always from the star point, so if you have a street with multiple houses connected and the neutral is broken along the way, the houses all downstream will suffer the over or under voltage problem. Even if the houses are on three phase supply, there will almost always be one phase with more load than others. BUT If you have Multiple Earth Neutrals on a TN-C-S system, it may be possible to limit how far the star point moves. A real life case of this happened in another street here. Two phases only went up to 280 volt and thus luckily appliances didn't damage. My own area, the neutral came off at the transformer and within a minute many items were blown in many houses.
@misa0704misa
@misa0704misa 3 жыл бұрын
There is one solution for this problem which can save all of your appliances of overload or burning. It is NEUTRA LIN FAULT DETECTOR, Detektor prekida nultog voda, which is produced in Niš Serbia. Keep safe!!! There is also video how it works on YT.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Yes indeed, Sinotimer has many units (single and three phase) available that disconnect almost immediately if the voltage is outside of range.
@misa0704misa
@misa0704misa 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP Thanks for reply, this is different device, this device trigger Differential switch when there is no neutral line. It dose it in split of the second and save all sensitive electronics in the house.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
I see it is not the same. Sinotimer has full load running through it and disconnects for voltage out of range you select. Response time 0.1 second. My concern with yours is that on TN-C-S earthing system there is no difference between neutral and earth because they are bonded at the meter. So yours won't detect any difference to cause the trip. It will only work with TT and maybe TN-S earthing.
@LawatheMEid
@LawatheMEid 3 жыл бұрын
Great effort .. but messy .. it convuse me😅
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the reply. It is confusing at first, but once you understand the way three phase works it's quite easy.
@LawatheMEid
@LawatheMEid 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP you are right, i am new in electric domain, i am mech. Eng. And i had made a terrible carrier decision by taking care of just mechanical issues .. i was wrong and i am teaching myself the principles of electricity, depending on many sources .. the videos from good experts like you are one of them.
@the_real_hislordship
@the_real_hislordship 3 жыл бұрын
@@LawatheMEid thank you. I was also confused about the three phase issue when I learnt about it and there wasn't much to explain why the voltages change so much. Hope to clear up some of those concepts.
@hanymuhammad2600
@hanymuhammad2600 3 жыл бұрын
Is the neutral wire earthed or not?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Yes on the main supply the neutral is bonded to the house earth and also to an earth rod.
@fikriaziz5153
@fikriaziz5153 2 жыл бұрын
what will happen if your break the neutral at the bulb?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
That bulb would just turn off and the other two would be in series over 400v
@dennisfowler7873
@dennisfowler7873 3 жыл бұрын
simple to understand....much better than all these other lab rats
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you, glad to hear that!
@calvinkopanomaretele193
@calvinkopanomaretele193 3 жыл бұрын
I'm currently facing this problem in an office block and it's a mission to find the missing or loose neutral
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
It should be easy enough. Is it affecting one distribution board or many? If one, check there and the source. If many, go back to where they all feed from. Your phase to neutral voltage under load should give you clues too. If they are out of range, there is a problem. What voltages are you getting?
@calvinkopanomaretele193
@calvinkopanomaretele193 3 жыл бұрын
It's a 3 floor building
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
I'm going to assume some things for the answer: Being an office building, it will either have its own transformer or an underground cable in from a transformer. Which means likely TN-S earthing or T-T maybe depending on which country you are in. It would be strange to see TN-C-S. So is the whole building affected, or only one part? What voltages are you getting on the three phases? What voltage between neutral and earth?
@calvinkopanomaretele193
@calvinkopanomaretele193 3 жыл бұрын
The supply feeds a 2 buildings, one being a 3 floor and the other a 2 floor building. From the main to all the Db's if there is no load I measure 230v between L-N and the same for L-E but as soon as I add any load I measure L1-N =176v, L2-N=298v, L3-N=279 round about and it doesn't remain constant. Please note Live to earth remains balanced even with the load on. I tried isolating the circuits to try and identify as to which floor or building might be the problem but still the problem persisted on each. So since it's affecting each Of the Db's, I concluded it must be the the supply neutral because I checked the phase earth neutral point (PEN) and it was solid.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Yes it sounds like the supply side is faulty. The earth is fine because that is still connected back to the transformer but the neutral has a fault (TN-S earthing I would say). Glad you've managed to narrow it down now. Honestly, most of these types of issues are on the supplier side. With TN-C-S, people complain about shocks from taps too. To find the fault quicker in future, always check the voltages at the meter. If they are wrong there, it's the supplier's problem to fix.
@tedlahm5740
@tedlahm5740 Жыл бұрын
We though UK was 230 volt system?
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP Жыл бұрын
It's actually South Africa but a lot of the world uses 230v/400v standard. 230v just means the connection is only a single phase of the three phases.
@kellymarieangeljohnson114
@kellymarieangeljohnson114 3 жыл бұрын
Hi white was used originally because they couldn't get a stable chemical mix to give yellow PVC Then someone cracked it
@jeethuutube
@jeethuutube 4 жыл бұрын
This is similar to the star connection with neutral.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 4 жыл бұрын
Yes the power company uses a delta-star transformer for our supply. It's 6,660v to 230v/400v. They have adjusted the transformer since this video so it's no longer 240v as shown.
@waykikiyeye
@waykikiyeye 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Thanks Thanks
@skyfields886
@skyfields886 3 жыл бұрын
cool.
@justineivanquintero9811
@justineivanquintero9811 3 жыл бұрын
Calculation please
@justineivanquintero9811
@justineivanquintero9811 3 жыл бұрын
Theory vs actual
@justineivanquintero9811
@justineivanquintero9811 3 жыл бұрын
Pls show computation.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
Sorry for the delay. Have a look at the video description. I've included calculations at the end.
@daveleyden6956
@daveleyden6956 3 жыл бұрын
👍👍👍👍
@aaronfitzgerald9109
@aaronfitzgerald9109 Жыл бұрын
"In case the neutral is stolen"😅 I thought, huh? Then I realised blacks in SA do that often...
@speaktruth452
@speaktruth452 3 жыл бұрын
In hongkong Chinese want everything red.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
You mean phases? What colour for neutral and earth?
@realdevbro447
@realdevbro447 3 жыл бұрын
Me checking wires in house after 8 y, color codes don't exist. Blue as earth and nutreal.
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
😱 which country? Blue as neutral is European standard. Phase or phases may be brown, black or grey otherwise brown/black stripe.
@goaliedude32
@goaliedude32 3 жыл бұрын
My boss wouldn't believe me when I told him this was a problem and we should never reuse a 3 wire to feed 2 circuits, always run individual circuits. I pretty much had to recreate this demonstration with recessed cans we ripped out
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
On a three phase supply you are actually allowed to use a 4 wire cable say for sockets. The wire and breaker must be correctly sized and then the load is shared. Works for example if you want to run a washing machine, tumble drier and dishwasher standing next to each other. Install one socket per phase and share the neutral so each machine can run at the same time. BUT YOU MUST install a three phase breaker, not three single phase breakers for safety to isolate the circuit. Check your country's wiring regulations to see if allowed but it is acceptable in Germany and South Africa. I will be doing a video soon on exactly this to show how it is done.
@goaliedude32
@goaliedude32 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP you also need to tag the neutrals to say that the neutral is a shared neutral. If it's not marked clearly and someone takes the neutral apart it will cause equipment damage. I was talking about single phase dwellings though. It just seems like more trouble than it's worth and puts you at risk of being liable for equipment damage. Doesn't seem worth it to save running 2 individual romexs
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
In single phase you can't share the neutral between two circuits breakers. The neutral will be overloaded and burn out. Oversizing the cables would defeat the purpose. For example (assuming full running load per circuit): Two 20A feeds will have 40A coming back on the neutral on single phase. However on three phase (also assuming full running load): Three 20A feeds at full load will have 0A on the neutral. It's not necessary to tag the neutral as shared if you have a three pole breaker. That is the point of the three pole breaker - you don't work with any part of the circuit accidentally live. If you use a three or four core cable for lights it's fine ONLY if you feed the whole lot from a single pole breaker with amp rating for the maximum current of the neutral (e.g. 1 x 20A for 2.5mm², not 3 x 20A separate breakers).
@goaliedude32
@goaliedude32 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheCrazyENTP single phase as in 240v. The neutral current still cancels out theb2 legs since they are 180 degrees out of phase from each other
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 2 жыл бұрын
Oh you're talking US wiring! That's a different story. This is Europe/Africa/Australia etc where we have 230v single phase and 400v three phase. Yours is complicated because you have 120v 208v 240v and then the 277v 480v options. Your 120v 240v is 180° apart where our 230v 400v is 120° apart (uses a delta star transformer to achieve this - the star on low voltage side). But yes the idea is to have phases cancel each other, so where you have two 120v phases at 180° apart they will cancel each other on the neutral. I'm not sure if you are allowed separate single breakers per live side, but here that wouldn't be allowed. We would use it as three phases with shared neutral.
@dharmuraodharmurao5195
@dharmuraodharmurao5195 3 жыл бұрын
हिंदी में समझा दो
@DanburyDK
@DanburyDK 3 жыл бұрын
Great video and explanation. Thank you 👍
@TheCrazyENTP
@TheCrazyENTP 3 жыл бұрын
My pleasure, glad it helped.
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