A critical look at the PSIA Technical Model

Deb Armstrong makes a case for the PSIA to update the 5 Fundamentals.

[@alexandermayer5924]

Great summary of why I’m walking away from PSIA after a level 3 cert and 20 years of membership. Went to an Ed team tryout and the clinicians and examiners couldn’t articulate what they were looking from a technical perspective. Just reenforces the “good old boys” mentality that is pervasive at the higher levels of PSIA. Say it louder for the old dudes out there gatekeeping. Nice video Deb, I hope to have the privilege of taking a lesson from you sometime.

[@hayleypbop6997]

As a ‘late-to-skiing’ skier who is somewhat obsessed with understanding the background principles and teaching methodology I really enjoyed this piece.

[@douglasbroccone3144]

Me too I started at 34 20 yrs ago Really love Debs own obsession with skiing education She’s a true teacher

[@hayleypbop6997]

@@douglasbroccone3144 isn’t she? I love her content so much.

[@pumori2]

Brave of you to take them on like that. But I agree that there is confusion and not just confined to PSIA. There is quite a big difference in teaching a group or individual who is intent on becoming a racer of high skill and an intermediate who just wants to be comfortable on more testing slopes. Many instructors of the latter just use tips and make general reference to principles without specifically relating the principles to the pupils perfotmance. The class / group instructor cannot be a tutor in the wonderful style you use of constant interruption and analysis and advice on correction but I suspect that if more attention was paid to fundamental principles we would have far less dissatisfied frustration in group classes. It amazes me that so many reasonably good skiers do not understand the importance of core principles to developing their skills so let’s hope your wake up call is heard .If there is one thing more more enjoyable than skiing, it is good skiing or rather better skiing. Thank you for taking the time and effort to produce this stimulating presentation.

[@FeickertandCompanyGrattai]

Hi Deb, I love this sport and its people. So many big hearts (like you) giving back generously after a lifetime in the game. So nice to have your input, your experience on so many levels and the wisdom you have gained - all coming back without judgement and with an open mind. The best thing for me is that we can go out on the snow even after 40 years and still have so much fun fiddling with a technical idea or just helping a friend to enjoy themselves. Unconditional Love in action !

[@amywilson5460]

Great info and perspective! A professor of mine from way back (talking about linguistics) said the mark of any good instructor is the ability to make a complex topic, idea, movement… SIMPLE! You’ve done that here with the PSIA fundamentals. Thank you.

[@ionlovsky3983]

Thank you for sharing all this. It is a struggle to catch skiing in words. You get right to the essence of teaching, which requires explaining why we feel what we feel when we ski, breaking it down into consecutive steps, cause and effect. Such a thrill to see students build their own awareness. Your energetic teaching videos are a role model for me as an instructor, and should be required viewing for ski instructor candidates of all levels!

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Awesome. Thank you

[@jillnothwehr1573]

Awesome video Deb. I am an 11-year level 2 PSIA. My husband is a 40 plus year level 3 PSIA. We teach together and separately. This video led to some great discussion. I believe the five fundamentals are important and needed. I think your extended list of fundamentals is equally important to the skilled instructor. I think a level one and low level two may find the five fundamentals A bit confusing or overwhelming. Your insightful additions may be confusing to level 1 instructors. But I think they are very important. Perhaps the five fundamentals are a basis, and your additions should be important for the next level certifications. On a different note, you are a rockstar. I love that you are thinking beyond conventional teaching, especially challenging PSIA. I am not saying that I disagree with PSIA, but we need to be creative as educators, and see how we can do things better and more efficiently. Isn't that what skiing is all about? Thank you for your courage.

[@Premierskis]

I agree completely with your analysis. I recently gave a Level I exam to 8 candidates, and their biggest struggle was being able to relate the 5 fundamentals to the actual skills they were trying to teach (turning, pressuring, edging, balancing) in their teaching segments. Our technical guidelines need to do a better job of giving instructors a framework for understanding movements and outcomes.

[@ursinidaho]

See. This is it right here. Keep it simple. Balancing, Pressure control, Edge control, and Rotational movements. Keep it simple.

[@AlvarHugosson]

As being fairly new to teaching skiing, gotten my instructor's licens in Japan, I have been tossed between a lot of ever-changing theories and 'fundamentals'. However, during the past two years, much thanks to you Deb, I have started to understand some of the timeless fundamentals. And with this video you have helped me to further cut through the noise and get to those points that will, hopefully, keep me on track when out there teaching.

[@strathound]

Deb, thank you for bringing up this issue. As an A2 certified instructor, I'm trying to climb the PSIA mountain. And one of the most frustrating things I run into is when you have a question about the "how" to achieve a certain outcome, and you always seem to get the "it depends" answer. And I get it. I does depend on environment, speed, and other factors. But sometimes, when you're a student, you just want the answer to the question. For example "what can I do to have better speed control in the bumps?" If I ask an instructor that question, I better be able to get an answer that will lead me to some exploration of my own skiing and hopefully, eventually, the outcome I'm looking for. Right?

[@strathound]

Another example ... "direct pressure along the length of the ski." Ok, I can do that by simple standing on my skis. Am I skiing now? That's one of the fundamentals. I'm good right? Oh wait, I'm too far aft now? I'm too static? Wait, I'm supposed to engage the tip of the ski earlier in the turn? When? How much? For how long? Like, give me the deets. I want to be a better skier.

[@MrSjGibbs]

Very well presented statement of the main problem. The PSIA has abandoned the principles of the American Teaching System. I was even told by an examiner that the Five Fundamentals replaced the ATS! Really what does a completely self centered examiner type care about giving a student centered lesson, nothing. There is the what to teach, and the how to teach aspects of instruction. The PSIA is giving the golden pin to people that don’t have a clear understanding of technical principles of skiing, and then making them examiners, of it continues to spiral down further from effective teaching. Thank you for bringing this problem to light.

[@karentannenbaum610]

Thank you Deb. Great video, I hope PSIA listens to what you are saying here.

[@gateslloyd1217]

Thanks Deb! Appreciate your perspective. Look fwd to our next conversation(s).

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Awesome Gates. Ya, back at ya

[@johnbarnhart7174]

Deb, I am a Level 3 PSIA Instructor. Totally agree with you that the PSIA "ideal" should be World Cup SL & GS turns. Ski School clients share with WC racers the goals of control and muscular efficiency. The main goal difference is that the racer strives for maximum speed at all times. Seems like maybe the USSA/PSIA coaching/teaching methods, terms, etc. should be more melded ? Thank you.

[@jinatison1349]

Wow-thank you so much for tackling this! It’s time for this change and I’m very excited to embrace it. I see great instructors (some retired racers) become frustrated attaining their levels due to exactly what you speak of here. I personally hold the view that ski racing fundamentals are the keystone, that allows easy transition to all terrain. (My bump friends will scowl at me for that one!) I’m working in my L3, not a racer, just a wanna-be. Looking forward to more in this direction!

[@rwargo1647]

Great work!

[@showze21]

thanks for this, its october. this lesson is spot on what i need to think about, before i slide off the lift at keystone and stare down schoolmarm, lol! you are the best ski instructor imo!

[@profpat70]

Spot on Deb, and long overdue! Hope someone is listening.

[@profpat70]

As an aside: who watched the recent Interski Demos and honestly said to themselves:' Boy those PSIA skiers were the best in the world"

[@angusg220]

I wish you had started this presentation from around the 12 minute mark, because that is the crux of your contention. And I agree wholeheartedly with it. Yes, I have been critical of recent contribution but it is because I have (quite by chance) skied with contenders for the US mogul team while they were relaxing and they were on par with me. For me, I was aged 28 and having a fantastic holiday and it was probably the zenith in my skiing....they were probably tired. I am now approaching retirement. My 2 or 1 week skiing holiday (as my finances are pressed) is the highlight of my year and I want to be the best I can as a holiday maker. So I take in as much as I can to work on the nuances that formal lessons would achieve. I am still pretty good. You are a brilliant teacher. Competing at representative level needs training and endless repetition. The goal at that level I suggest, is to ensure that you cannot make fundamental mistakes. Whether amateur or professional if the rules of the course or the terrain for a safe (sic) mountain descent, directs skier to make a left turn, then anything other than that is wrong. Once the rules are in place then competency takes over. Working from the top down is great. Perhaps the greatest hurdle to address is the fallacy that skiing equates to elitism. Yes, it is cripplingly expensive for any newcomer to skiing, from equipment, board, lodging and clothing and, of course, about 99.99% of recreational skiers will NEVER ski to the skill level of athletes. Thus, I applaud your reference to the core goal that you expect to teach in whatever teaching lesson you take. I am further heartened to note that competing at elite level is aspirational and COULD be an ambition for a recreational skier. However, in order to be a contender for training to advance beyond competency at recreational level, practice is needed. And practice can ONLY be gained where there is gradient equipped to train skiers. It is a great delight to me that my children are better skiers/snowboarders than me. Maybe, one day I will have grandchildren and introduce them to the Alps. Thank you -oh, you got a thumbs up this time!

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Love it. Thank you

[@rebenasrekoms]

Great presentation!

[@MacPE6]

I am a PSIA Level I instructor and 5 years of experience. Tried for Level II last year after a great deal of coaching and training. I know, so what. I left the Level II exam completely bewildered, embarrassed, and demoralized to the point that I almost gave up. Looking back now I ask myself "What did I learn or take away from the exam?" I need to work on my forward pressure. and need to ski with narrower skis is what the eval said. What does that have to do with basic skiing fundamentals? I agree with your assessment and the fact that PSIA needs to change/update its teaching processes. One of my coaches says "Make the tails follow the tips" by managing inputs to affect output, paraphrasing him. I hope the right people can hear what you expressed in this video and can make the appropriate changes to meet the new ski tech, and skiers. Thank you for all you share.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Have you given this feedback to any higher ups within PSIA? I’d say it’s relevant feedback. Any constructive suggestions for them may help😉

[@sabinebillon977]

That’s the way, well said ! Respect👏👏

[@riccapatrol]

Whatever makes you happy in life just put it into your skiing! 😉

[@haroldmiller9559]

Thanks for sharing your insights in this brilliantly articulated argument, suggesting that instructors learn fundamentals as characterized by the World Cup ski turn. Thanks for sharing insights from Jean Mayer, Sasha Rearick, Ingemar Stenmark, Ron LeMaster, and others, to augment and reinforce the Five Fundamentals developed by the PSIA educational team. You might also have evoked lessons from Hannes Schneider, Dave Durrance, Stein Ericksen, Gretchen Fraser, Horst Abraham, Daron Rahlves, Jon Ballou, Christin Cooper and others who, like you, knew skiing at the cellular level before the mind caught up, and went on to analyze it in order to convey the principles to students as clearly as possible, because they, too, echo your ideas, but your choices economically served your goal of putting it plainly, completely, and simply. In English.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Thank you for this thoughtful message Harold. Appreciate it

[@johnbarnhart7174]

Wonder if phases of turn might instead be Pressure vs Light ? Do wish USSA and PSIA would agree more on approach. Seems like biggest difference is between race & recreation is seeking vs limiting speed. That ties to location (relative to fall line) and duration of edge engagement and pressure.

[@levitipps915]

The 5 Fundamentals are not a rule book on how to ski, rather I view them as a complete way we can organize our assessment of the things skis do on the snow, and overall body movements that might be responsible (MA). Body mechanics can be explained and explored in great depth, but the ski really only does combinations a few different things on the snow. I believe phases of the turn and body mechanics could/should absolutely be made more clear in PSIA. But what the ski does on snow, is pretty well defined in my opinion with the 5 fundamentals. Older instructors get so hung up on body positioning, that they seem to forget that skiing is dynamic and ski snow interaction is number one on level of importance. Getting students to explore sensations and connect with their equipment better, is probably the most effective approach. Body mechanics will always be argued over, but I agree, they should be determined by the highest levels of performance demonstrated in ski racing.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

You stress ski snow interaction here and also how folks get hung up on specific body mechanics. What I propose here with my core principles is not hung up on either of those things as I stress Balance, outside ski ton outside ski, lower leg engagement, upper body stability, pole usage. These concepts encompass good skiing yet the specifics in how to do these things is not prescribed. The skills of edging, pressure, rotary and the 5 fundamentals can reflect some of the ways we differentiate what I describe in my core principals. They co exist, the fundamentals and the core principals yet the fundamentals are not sufficient to understanding skiing mechanics.

[@levitipps915]

Deb, thanks for replying! I agree, the 5 fundamentals do not provide enough direction or specific things we should be doing with our bodies in skiing to be fully sufficient. They predominantly speak to very general ideas that relate body movements to ski performance. The core concepts you list, offer concrete things we can improve/focus on in our body movements in skiing. I like the five fundamentals because they simplify things, and allow me a starting point when analyzing a students skiing. With a focus on ski performance, and overall body movements that might be responsible I can then utilize your core concepts to identify very specific body mechanics to work on. Sometimes it’s easier to pick out something in the body that looks off, and then see if/how ski performance is being affected. I do it both ways and a constantly am trying to fine tune my own teaching.

[@KenpoOjoko]

I am in total agreement with you Deb. We all want to ski better, but it is challenging to find an individual or a system that can teach us to be better skiers. Why? One of the reasons is that good skiers are not necessarily good instructors. They ski well, but can't teach. I wasted a lot of money taking ski lessons from questionable instructors. Another reason is that, somewhat related to the first issue, terminologies must be clearly and uniformly defined. Instructors often express feeling about their skiing, and some would say something like, "Don't overthink. Just do it!" The learners of skiing need to understand in their heads what to do and why they work so that they can practice after the lesson. I understand there are people who disagree with the PSIA instructions. Japan's SIA has the same issue. They all try to establish an authoritative instruction model, but none have been successful. I want to believe and still believe that World Cup-level skiing techniques should apply to recreational skiing. But I wonder if there are top-level ski instructors who are willing to get together and come up with a mutually agreeable ski instruction model. In that sense, I like what you are trying to do here. Thank you!

[@buckbrat]

Spot on as usual.

[@Skedawg88]

PSIA is necessary if you’re a pro ski teacher. A level 3, I have been a member for 40 plus years but don’t agree with much of what it promotes. It provides a basis but only goes so far as you note. A thoughtful and insightful take on your part.

[@62363915Leo]

Across European countries I found so many instructors joke about the PSIA. The nicest comment was from a Slovakian instructor: they are 7 years behind.

[@skiwithdenny]

Deb, thank you I have had some issues with the fundamentals that PSIA uses because they are so broad. Using just the fundamentals with out explaining or delivering what the intent of what the instructor, clinician, examiner or verifier wants leads to an overly broad interpretation of the application of the fundamentals and a discrepancy in what good skiing is. This leads to frustration on the part of the learner Thank you.

[@fourftr]

Love to hear your opinion on Harald Harb’s PMTS

[@profpat70]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Harb and his PMTS have been way ahead of the curve for years!

[@fourftr]

@@profpat70 I’m amazed she didn’t answer. Like they don’t want to give him credit because it doesn’t fit their agenda. I thought Deb was more open minded and have sent her tips many times. Disappointed in her.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Wow, massive judgement here. Your knee jerk viewpoint is not an accurate assessment however. I do appreciate carried views on skiing yet that is different than agreeing with everything. Harold has some points I agree with and others I do not which is a viewpoint I have about PSIA, the US ski team, and many other athletes individuals. Your comment is black and white not allowing for nuance, complexity. important characteristics when looking for understanding.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Way ahead of the curve? That’s one viewpoint

[@johnbarnhart7174]

Harold Harb is certainly knowledgeable and a great skier But inventing different terminology seems unnecessary and confusing.

[@gogglebro9421]

Deb, I have a few thoughts about what you’ve said in this thought provoking video. Allow me just a couple of comments. I understand you may or may not agree with me, but I’m always interested whenever you share an opinion. First, I sense that ski instructors (or the ski schools) have a tendency to teach with expediency as opposed to teaching skis/techniques that will in the long run help students progress more easily to higher levels. Second, I’ve not found information that breaks down the differences and how to transition students from a basic parallel turn (using extension) to a performance turn (using flexion). (Perhaps I’ve just not looked enough?) I wanted to share the types of challenges I face as an instructor. //Marshall

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Think of flexion and extension used for high performance turns and lower performance turns. It isn’t one or the other. In my core values independent leg action is listed

[@gogglebro9421]

@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong After reading your response, I read through your core values. Thank you for sharing them with all of us.

[@gogglebro9421]

@@DebArmstrongSkiStrongThank you for that observation. It got me thinking and then I realized (or at least became conscious) of the fact that flexion and extension is always being used: Groomed snow, moguls, and powder. Its just a matter of how those movements are being used. It then occurred to me that one way to identify these associated movements is using DIRT (duration, intensity, rate, and timing) and that I could, for example, analyze the first segment of a basic parallel turn and high performance turn in this way. // Marshall

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

@@gogglebro9421 nice!!!!!

[@haroldmiller9559]

Thanks!

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Thank you🙏

[@XueTech]

I have skied 350 days and done 100 days of drills. I own 10 pairs of skis for different applications. I read the technical manual 3 times and went to their clinics. During L2, I asked basic questions during the exam that the examiners refused to answer as if the amount of angulation they would like to see in a medium radius is top secret. It is not specified in the technical manual. Like there is such a thing as a perfect medium turn. The feedback after the exam was not only wrong but impossible. PSIA seriously need objective metrics. It is a subjective mess. When I emailed PSIA, they told me to attend clinics and work with a ski school. Additionally, recording during teaching and MA should be permitted so there's no subjectivity or at least some method to escalate in cases of disagreement. There's fundamental trust in the examiners but I trust physical evidence more.

[@danielkeeffe6947]

Right on Deb.Coming from bamboo on thru old age,good skiing still is good skiing.I will say,don't think just ski.

[@anatoli28]

Hi deb ..wats your opinon about harald harb sistem?

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Folks who follow him seem to be a bit rabid, cult like, he seems to cultivate a belief of “my way or the highway”. I have not had conversations about technique with Harald but I have with many of his followers and I generally find those conversations difficult if not annoying 😉.

[@716jivison]

I agree. Thanks Deb!

[@RobertYoderTruckee]

I totally agree on the lack of progression in ski teaching. It is arcane for the instructor to ski sown ahead of the class with them following his turns, which they actually never see as they are looking 5’ in front of them at the snow. Why do they not ski behind the student with real time bluetooth headset communication? Lauralee Bowie gave me a lesson close to 30 years ago using radio shack headset. So much better! She is still teaching and headsets are way better today. Always puzzled we watching a ski class following the instructor with not one of them on the same path or turn shape the instructor took. Totally backward!

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Skilled and not so skilled in every field😉

[@barkeater7867]

great stuff but I love the overall organizing principals concept of skills concept. that Sasha pyramid seems all over the place. I does seems skill concept is too broad and general and more detail time and energy understanding of the movements and applying the skills, is needed..

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Thanks for the comment

[@shawnphillipsyoga]

speaking outside of the 3-skills-and-5-fundamentals has gotten me criticized and dismissed … to the point i no longer teach skiing. deb, thanks for using your position to speak truth to power. your own list starts with balance … and, YES !! yet i was repeatedly told that balance only results from applying the 5 fundamentals, and that it’s not a valid focus in its own right. and i was particularly happy to see “return to neutral” in your list. what i find missing most from the PSIA model is any discussion of what actually happens in the body during a ski turn, again, because we’re actively criticized for speaking outside our lane of “ski performance”. yet no amount of technical instruction can really make a difference until students (or PSIA educators) understand what they’re trying to accomplish.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Appreciate the comment

[@Cederez_s]

Racing techniques optimize efficient turning at high velocity. As a recreational skier, i want my turning technique to be optimized at low velocity. I want to find the most comfortable way to ski slowly at every pitch. While many skills ftom top athletes will be relevant, I'm not convinced that the complete technique is transferrable to me. Same with cars: I'm looking for comfort, traffic safety, good gas milage and best carrying capacity for family members and cargo. Those are NOT developed by R&D of car racing.

[@DebArmstrongSkiStrong]

Fair point for sure. I have been teaching beginner and low level skiers for 30 years now and what I teach has a direct thread up to the lightest level turns. Beginning with balance, lower leg engagement, foot to foot, upper body stability. These fundamentals are born, vetted, and time tested at the highest levels of skiing. My video makes the point that using the skills of edging, rotary, pressure modifications are made for skill level and various types of turns. I rarely have an unhappy student😉

[@amundekroll7490]

It has been well documented that PSIA is still 40 years behind the equipment curve.They have now been trying to do something about it, but they sure do not know how to implement it. t