A Defence Of Newcastle Fans Who Come In For Moral Criticism

I appreciate that by it's very nature the subject of today's video is a divisive topic but following the announcement of Lewis Hall's arrival at Newcastle United, I made a remark on Twitter referencing his father Colin's fandom of the club, how he had passed that down to his two boys in childhood and how proud he must have been to see Lewis sign for the club he's been following his whole life; within two minutes, there were replies referencing the ownership group in charge at St James' Park and it got me thinking about the moral dilemma Newcastle fans have now been handed through matters completely out of their individual control.
It's far from a straightforward subject to cover but I'll be open and say that I have genuinely sympathy with Newcastle fans who've followed the club for life who are now being lambasted for continuing to support them, for the reasons I've hopefully covered in ample detail in the video attached. I'm aware that it's a viewpoint which is likely to get some pushback but hopefully you can see where I'm coming from.
Cheers,
Dan
Follow me on Twitter: / hltco
Listen to my daily Palace or General Football Podcasts on Patreon: / hltco
Follow me on TikTok: / hltcopod

[@markypickard]

Spot on here. I've supported Newcastle for just under 30 years now. We had 14 years of that with a torrid penny pinching owner with mainly drab football and relegation battles. Why can't we enjoy the fact we can now compete and have hope now. As you said I don't think you'll find many billionaire owners that aren't a bit dodgy in how they got there and we cannot choose who our owners are. It's good that we can discuss the issues associated with PIF but most of our fanbase are not saudi or human rights experts so why should we explain ourselves to rival fans. If man u fans are begging for Glazers to go they would welcome a Saudi prince with billions with open arms but until they have that we get the usual bots and trolls saying "small oil club" and "Oli club no morals". It's just an easy target to write on twitter so I ignore it all. Another note is when we say we have our club back now we really mean it. I think it really helps having Amanda and Merhdad as the front facing owners that are always at games, interacting with fans, going to event openings etc. It's showing that they care (and yes I know money is probably top of their reasons) but just watch the Prime documentary to show how much Amanda cares and shows warmth to everyone. They have invested heavily in the womens team, disabled team, local community projects, the training ground, we even cheered when they washed the windows of the stadium shortly after they arrived. We have more interaction with the official club twitter, they recently fixed an issue with ticketing after a backlash, the CEO Darren Eales has regularly been at events and on radio talk ins. It's little touches like these that show we have our club back. Wow, I went on a bit here glad I typed it here as wouldn't of fit in a tweet! Great content as always from you and I know you are a palace fan but I love following your content as you cover pretty much every team and give balanced views. Ignore any trolls and keep doing what you do! Top stuff

[@liamreay8998]

Absolutely brilliant this. I’ve been a Newcastle fan all my life, went to my first game in the 1980s and people want to tell me to stop supporting my team? I have concerns about human rights issues in Saudi Arabia just like any decent human being. But I also have massive concerns about things that happen in this country by our own government. Nobody would hold an ordinary citizen to account for those things. Whether you’re British or Saudi. So why do people think it’s different for football fans? These people would take our owners and success at their club in a heartbeat. I have no time for anyone who only developed a moral compass when a rival football team was taken over. I have no respect for people who wouldn’t care about our owners if we were still a bottom half, nothing team. It’s all rooted in jealousy. Great video though. Thank you for saying it.

[@1andahalfmen268]

Some how come across this but it’s so refreshing to hear; I came off twitter because of the hatred from both other fans and media towards us NUFC fans. I will quote it below, but this is how I feel about things at the minute and it is something that really affects me. It came after the announcement of the Saudi friendlies. Great video showing independence and objectivity. I’ve hit like and subscribe. “Good video. I'm torn too. Feels sometimes as though the media are putting on fans to fix political issues. It genuinely hurts that we are constantly battered for loving our club. I commented in a few videos recentlty where people critisise us as "oil club" "blood money" It makes me think, it deally does. But i wonder, do these individuals drive petrol cars, buy anything made of plastic, use ubers, stay in saudi owned hotels? Do they use a phone or wear clothes made in the east (possibly by a child)? Surely this must be the case because these individuals have such high integrity levels. I used to love twitter, mainly for transfer gossip etc, but i have just deleted my account because i dont want to see the vile comments made towards fans. Im educating myself on Saudi, and the PIF, as i believe its my responsibility to do so. But what can i do about it? Im not comparing the two but we in the UK are not clean. Political corruption is rife (look at covid). Im a single parent to two disabled children. I worked throughout lockdown from home whilst caring for my kids; did not see my girlfriend because we dont live together. For approx 10 weeks! Meanwhile our government are lining their mate's pockets and partying. Tell me where a clean regime exists? Again, im not comparing the two to say the UK is just as bad, or having a pity party, because im grateful for my life. But man.... Its like poeple want to hold little old me (and the rest of NUFC fans) accountable for things going on thousands of miles away. I just want to enjoy my team's football! Again i ask what can i do? Stop the feeling? Where are the activists demanding the UK stop trading with Saudi? Where were the media hammerings over Abramovich. And ffs, where the hell is BOJO's phone and his whatsapp messages?!!! Great video. I dont want the matches to happen; just another excuse for a media battering. Thank you”

[@CCooper-f5f]

Thank you for a balanced and nuanced take on this. As a Newcastle fan it is difficult for most of us square this away. I will always support my team. We have existed long before PIF and will exist long after. I don’t know what fans are supposed to do. The new owners have ran the club well, they’re invested in the area and creating jobs here which is obviously going to buy goodwill but I can’t say that it makes me forget about what happens in SA. It may be naive but I hope that being in the spotlight SA will be forced to adapt culturally if they wish to be part of a global economy. They are changing slowly and I don’t think that should be underestimated in the west but I think it’s right we call out things we believe are wrong. It’s really difficult all round.

[@tyneskipper]

Spot on. have been a Newcastle fan all my life. 51 years old. i've never had any impact on whoever owns my club. the idea that some bloke from another city can claim "oih i'd just walk away". no you wouldn't. you never would. it's purely down to "why didn't they buy my club?"

[@joaj92]

The same people who expect Newcastle fans to stop supporting their football club are the same people who won't even give up using other services that are partially/fully owned by PIF.

[@jimrobson9249]

Thanks for a reasoned and balanced presentation. As a Newcastle fan my take on the issues you raised is that you are right many fans did wrestle with the human rights record of Saudi state. But at the end of the day our government continues to do business with the Saudi state in an attempt one would hope to alter the mindset of this nation . We also have to remember that many of the more difficult aspects of the Saudi laws are based on religious beliefs which is a whole different ball game. So as a simple fan who as you say only wants to support his team, let those with real influence work on the big problems and the rest of us can worry about how we can get three points from an away game at crystal palace. 😅

[@rixter63]

Lots of good points , I do think criticism of our fan base has no justification when the UK government have such strong trading agreements with Saudi ! I have only ever known Newcastle United since 1973 had no interest or choice in other teams. I feel absolutely no guilt in the euphoria which has swept through the region since October 2021. Other than Manchester City every other fan base in England would willing swap places with us.”

[@scottdavison5197]

Appreciate this. Practically all of the myths created by fans of other clubs and the media regarding Newcastle post takeover can be immediately dispelled upon a single visit on a matchday to St James Park and the city as a whole. We're still the same local and passionate Geordie fanbase we've always been. Our morals and views are unchanged we just have a little bit of hope now.

[@HLTCOMEDIA]

Thanks for taking the time to comment Scott, as I’ve said to others, as long as supporters appreciate the moral difficulty of the ownership rather than excusing it, I don’t see why they should be slated for continuing to follow the club.

[@GTKTNT]

I'm a newcastle fan. Some of our fan base don't help themselves. I go to pretty much every game. It's the silly ones that put the tea towels over their heads or waving a Saudi flag. I won't be investing my heard earned into the Saudi away kit. That's where I draw the line. I accept that it's what comes with the owners. I try to not look at it as being Saudi owners and more that Amanda Staveley, Mehrdad Ghodousi and Jamie Reuben own.

[@scottdavison5197]

Outside of a few drunk people the night the takeover was announced. The only people who actually wave Saudi flags are Saudi nationals who visit. This is a narrative that can be dismissed just by literally attending a match.

[@jungsbodyguard]

I’ve been a Villa fan my entire life, at least as long as I can remember. Would I stop supporting them if a monstrous regime took over club? I’ll be honest, probably not, even though I’d have misgivings. But accepting it is one thing, actively supporting it is another. As you say, a minority of your fans don’t help themselves

[@AlanBrownPhotography]

@@jungsbodyguardIt was only 50 years ago that women were not allowed in bars and banned from playing football. I’m not talking Saudi here, that was the UK. The US continues to treat non-whites as 2nd class citizens and still jails those without charge in Guantanamo. The Saudis are years behind, but each country has had its own issues and the catalyst for change is openness, not treating others like a pariah.

[@jungsbodyguard]

@@AlanBrownPhotography Only a few years ago, the Saudi government took an 11 year old boy who was speaking into a loudspeaker about having freedom of expression, tortured him until he confessed to being a domestic terrorist, then executed him when he turned 18 I’m sorry if you find not supporting the regime behind that distasteful

[@AlanBrownPhotography]

@@jungsbodyguard I agree that that’s abhorrent, but don’t feel that countries such as Saudi will progress unless we come together and have discussions. In the US a group of white men strung up a black child for whistling at a white girl and were not convicted. Neither are right, we all have continue to call out these acts. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to put Saudi petrol in my car, or fly on an American airline.

[@BVking509]

Your argument on Morality is baseless, if the new owners didn't have any money, there wouldn't be any of these Human Rights Experts popping up. This is about money, jealousy and competition

[@Wardley-Toon]

Like Rafa Benitez once said-FACTS!!⚪️⚫️

[@v4vendetta237]

You are absolutely 100% correct.

[@The-Bl4ck-C4t]

Bottom line, there is not a single fanbase that would have complained if PIF had bought their club. It is what it is.

[@garrybell6128]

At last, a knowledgeable sence based speach about probably what all toon fans think. Thank you for spending your time to air your views. Thank you.

[@RzA201]

What exactly is Saudi Arabia morally guilty off ...apart from the atrocities in Yemen. And we all know who supplies the fireworks. 😮

[@sodyouall9206]

Good video mate. I would like to say the only person who agreed to the takeover was Mike Ashley the previous owner. The fans follow the team not the owners and had zero input in the process 👍

[@pepistv]

Well said mate, we dont choose the clubs owners we'd all love a squeaky clean self made Geordie who could give it a go but the reality is they don't really exist for any club. Personally all I ask is they respect what we stand for, the people working with the club act responsibly and do everything club wise with the best intentions. Hopefully as the Saudi's do invest more in the western world it has a positive influence on the parts of their culture that are stuck in the past.

[@540BC]

This is very fair and I’m sure fellow Newcastle fans will appreciate it. The Mike Ashley years were grim and now we’re enjoying ourselves under a brilliant manager. Subscribed

[@ZionOrange]

i have no moral conflict. I accept that Saudi Arabia and the middle East are not founded on neo liberal western normative standards. I don't think half the thing a reported are true, and all the executions they did last year were subject to fair trials and the crimes were murder to sedation and terrorism. I accept different cultures however Saudi Arabia is the most progressive arab state in terms of western normative standards. the khissoggi scenery is about the most messy situation however we always hear one side. we don't get the story that he was a Turkish spy. political execution while admittedly is wrong, the United States and UK executed saddamHussein and Osama bin Laden without a trial, the CIA, SAS, MI6 have all been involved in questionable things. I think Newcastle may be a means to help bridge western and Arab culture, and inspire changes to the western way of life.

[@lambyUK2007]

Jesus christ.

[@AlanBrownPhotography]

I believe the jibes have very little to do with a moral stand, more the stale low-hanging fruit that opposing fans are so willing to grasp. For example, how many of these fans protest the companies that continue to do 2.5 Billion in trade each year, the UK government for continued military sales, or refuse to put Saudi derived petrol in their cars? Spoiler alert, that would be zero.

[@johnwright4218]

Add to this how many fans have stopped using Uber or Disney as the pif are heavily invested in both. Furthermore, how many fans have objected to their club selling players to the Saidi league?

[@alankhaw6464]

Thank you for doing your research and seeing it from a different point of view as a neutral.

[@michaelkeohane9018]

Identical situation to us at City. We've had it since day one. I've yet to meet any fellow blue who gave a second thought to going elsewhere or stop supporting us. Good luck Newcastle. Great to have another title contender in the mix 👍

[@derekoetting4245]

As a newcastle fan born a stones throw away from SJP i can say that i have only just got back to supporting them since pif bought the club. Under ashley i could not follow them as we were void of any hope or competition. It was take take take with ashley. This is the north of england and we have been decimated by successive governments for as long as i can remember. Big industries like the ship yards vickers and many others that gave employment. NEWCASTLE has been in a state of depression for a long time and if you ask any geordie they will tell you the area is on a high now. We are a hard working. Type of people and now the club reflects on how we want them to play on the pitch. Hard work. As for human rights it was not that long ago in this country where it was illegal for same sex marriage/women couldn't vote and if they were married they could not refuse sex to there husband. Young teenage girls were sent to mental hospitals for beong promiscuous. Maybe in time the saudis change like this country did.

[@mattpryokra2245]

You are a true Geordie, excellent points 🖤🤍

[@ten8ciousg452]

Unfortunately it's the league that all 20 teams play in is corrupt and what made it that way certain people and tons an tons of cash

[@matty8700]

Top man Dan always talking sense

[@robertallbright5465]

Great this thank you 👍

[@skythebike5860]

Well said

[@thesunkendream]

Great video

[@Caroline72145]

I wish clubs did not have to rely on Saudi money to succeed.

[@AlanBrownPhotography]

Yet you willingly buy their petrol, purchase plastic products made from their oil.

[@lambyUK2007]

@@AlanBrownPhotography Jesus christ. That's one of the thickest responses i've read so far.

[@AlanBrownPhotography]

@@lambyUK2007 For what reason? Fans claim to take the moral high ground but what are they doing outside of making digs to ptotest? The UK continues to do > 2.5 BILLION in trade with the Saudis each year, and support its 'regime' by selling arms.

[@JB-dx7eu]

@@lambyUK2007 what a pathetic response. Victimpool were happy to take Saudi money 🤡. Always the victim Justice for the Heysel 39

[@imskip]

It's not just a moral issue posed by the ownership at Newcastle but a question of sporting integrity. State run clubs make it virtually impossible for clubs like Palace to compete. Maybe Lewis Hall would never have come to Palace based on his childhood affiliations but he certainly would never have come to us based on which club can spend the most. I get that the Geordies must be sick of the criticism, and they have to get used to the state of cognitive dissonance required to resolve their own ethics with the actions of their club's owners. However each new transfer is another destabilization of the power balance in the Premier League and another coffin nail in the top half aspirations of the smaller clubs. Perhaps some of the criticism is still valid even if unwelcome.

[@dylanstevenson5737]

We don't care nor do we ask for your sympathy.

[@tja_tv]

Newcastle United as a football club deserve the criticism they get. Being a stakeholder in that club is in that light will get you criticism regardless of whether you openly criticise the ownership, silently criticise, silently enioy or bring a Saudi flag to matches. I dont think fans have to change who they support (I wouldn't) but they are going to just have to deal with that criticism by indirectly embracing the regime.

[@AlanBrownPhotography]

Like any country, the ones creating the issue are not the general public, but those in power. It’s fine to call out the HR deficiencies of the leadership, but consideration should be given to the Saudi people in general. Were it not for the fact they bought Newcastle I doubt those criticizing the morality of the team would have had a voice.

[@lambyUK2007]

I'm sorry Dan, I just don't agree with what you've said whatsoever. I'm a Liverpool fan myself, and have been a fan since the first game my grandad took me to in the late 80's. If the same thing happened to the club I loved, that would be the end of it for me. What would be the point? I don't pretend our owners are perfect, and no doubt someone will bring up something dodgy FSG have done, or even perhaps a sponsor that the club are affiliated with. However, when it comes to basic human rights, that's where I draw the line. Incidentally my father in law is, or shall I say was a newcastle fan. He's no longer following the club. In the end, most people are willing to turn a blind eye if it brings success to the club and frankly I think it's sad.

[@ScottGameplaysHD]

Most football fans (especially outside of the big six) don't choose their football allegiances and certainly can't turn it on or off like a tap. Nobody is turning a blind eye to anything either as literally not a single Newcastle fan literally remotely shares any interest in Saudi Arabia. They're seen as an investor and absolutely nothing more and in time another investor will take their place. The club hasn't changed since the takeover, the same people can visit as always and the fans are the same with their morals and views unchanged.

[@lambyUK2007]

@@ScottGameplaysHD This isn't about turning it on and off like a tap though. This is about where you draw the line as a human being. If you're comfortable your club being owned by a regime that is using you as a front to turn eyes away from other human rights abuses, then frankly that is on you. As I've said, I've been going to Anfield every year for 35 years, and the minute that happens to the club I love, that's it for me. I don't pretend that it won't be hard thing to do either, as I fully know that following your club is an escape you need after the crap we have put up with in our normal day to day lives.

[@scottdavison5197]

@@lambyUK2007 I can draw the line as a human being knowing I'm a UK citizen, Newcastle born and bred and that the club is exactly the same as it was prior to the takeover. What happens in a country not my own thousands of miles away is concerning but I have absolutely no right interfering with. We see the PIF as investors and nothing more and our actual owners who run the club Amanda and Merhdad have been absolutely fantastic. You absolutely can't stop following your club because of outside investment you have no say in. 99% of the stuff spouted online about our club post takeover can be proven false just by one single trip to the city/club.

[@ListerWalkthroughs]

@@lambyUK2007 Hasn't your club, absolutely benefited from the Saudi Arabian clubs buying your shite old players? That line seems to be mighty blurry, huh?

[@ssoolliidd1]

I assume you dont use anything which the Saudi's have their fingers in then? Paypal? EA? UBER? Starbucks? BP? Facebook? Disney? Shell? I assume you disagree with USA and UK dealing with Saudi? Im assuming you think the UK and USA have impeccable human rights records? I completely agree that the human rights records are horrendous (which ironically is spoken about more now than ever following the takeover, which appears to have made the issue of human rights more prominent rather than sweeping their history under a rug as people are claiming). However as an NUFC for me entire life, living in the city in which it runs in our blood, you cant just 'turn off' your love for the club due to owners. Good or bad.

[@terrythomas8482]

Well said m8 from a half century Toon fan we don't care who owns our club we just want a team that try's to win game of football as for Gateshead most Newcastle fans follow them anyway as we do our local pub teams we just love football !

[@MarkMcCormack-r6q]

Problem is people are two faced they have a problem with pif owning Newcastle united but will get an Uber or watch the PGA golf or Disney all owned by pif and it’s not so much all the fans from premier league clubs just the top six that tried joining a super league or did they forget about that