A Failed Campaign | Sima Yi's Coup Let's Talk Lore E07

[@SeriousTrivia]

You know the deal! 300 likes and the next episode will drop!

[@Amar-rc4dc]

I hit like be4 watching for this reason😂😅😊

[@twelve4682]

can we hit 300 like for 3 episodes in 24 hours ?

[@ZelgadisEddy]

Cao Shuang: "I am your leader! You must do as I say!" Gentry Clan: "I didn't vote for you!"

[@shinsenshogun900]

#NotMyWeiRegent!

[@TheRealBruceLouis]

At least Cao Cao's hardwork led to him being immortalized as someone larger than life many centuries and millenias later after good ole Cao Shuang just threw his hardwork away.

[@HanWsh]

To better illustrate the significance of the Battle of Xingshi: In the immediate aftermath of Cao Shuang heavy defeat, Cao Shuang and his cabal was ridiculed, Sima Zhao was transferred from Sanqi Changshi to Yilang(used as scapegoat) and Fei Yi was promoted to a Xianghou level. Xianghou is the same nobility level that Zhuge Liang peaked as. Meanwhile, Jiang Wan as the regent + Grand Marshal + Inspector of Yi province was only a Tinghou level. Xianghous are 2 levels above tinghous. So the losses that Cao Shuang suffered must have been significant for the Wei court to transfer a regent's son and not able to silence people from mocking Cao Shuang. And also significant for the Shu court to parachute Fei Yi past Jiang Wan and onto the same nobility level as Zhuge Liang.

[@DeardropsRiho]

Interesting comment 👍

[@quicochines7492]

Decisive defeats on the battlefield can destroy not only the careers but also the lives of those responsible (especially when they refuse to even admit responsibility). The most extreme example of this is the case of Zhuge Ke in Wu

[@quicochines7492]

The great detail of all this... Sima Yi at this point was already literally one step away from the grave (if you raise your hand, God will take you, as they say in my country) and yet he was able to see the problems in a more lucid way than Cao Shuang, who was at the height of his power (physical, mental and in authority). If all the people who would later revolt against the Sima clan were really worried about helping Wei, why not speak out now while dear Cao Shuang is enraging 90% of the kingdom and even more so the barbarians?

[@fallenprince7591]

Can anyone really blame the Sima clan for feeling exasperated while watching Cao Wei repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot while the Sima tried to hold the kingdom together?

[@infinitememegod]

Unfortunately Cao Shuang had 30 LEA so defeat was assured.

[@trapinchdeathuser3516]

😂 true

[@alantanmiaothong635]

Oh god, how the Cao clan has fallen Wei down to rock bottom. Cao Shuang is the height of chaebol (second generation heirs) ineptitude and imbecility: 1. He tries to prove himself on a campaign which started off alright, and then panicked when he saw signs of the enemy and completely buffooned the situation. He stops his troops inside a mountain range with no water, completely pisses off the Qiang tribes, then refuses to own up to his mistakes even when the threat of a counterattack was real, only retreating when he starts getting cut off and essentially gifting Shu-Han free food and animals. 2. He surrounds himself with corrupt advisors that like him, do not know when to quit. 3. He completely tears down the relationship between him and the Sima clan, as well as the other older gentry clans that have supported the Cao Wei regime. That argument with Sun Li is completely dumb - rejecting an esteemed elder stateman's reprimand just because you are higher ranked ends up with you losing face and being seen as a small man. No wonder people were hoping that Sima Yi would kick Cao Shuang out. Oh, the answer to the Trivia should be Lady Bai. Sima Yi got pretty horny at the end of his life especially after Zhang Chunhua died, so I hope I'm correct.

[@Killerbee4712]

Trivia Question: Sima Yi's younger concubine was Lady Bai. Interestingly in the TV series the Advisors alliance, Lady Bai is portrayed as a spy for Cao Pi, but this seems to just be an attempt to portray Sima Yi less as bad person for betraying his wife and getting a concubine.

[@nobblkpraetorian5623]

Her death in the TV series is very interesting. Did Sima Yi kill her to prevent her from spying, or did she really die from childbirth? When Sima Yi told the court attendant that he killed her, was he telling the truth or was he lying to hide his grief and appear ruthless?

[@Killerbee4712]

@@nobblkpraetorian5623 I believe you are referring to 2010 Three kingdoms, I was referring to The Advisors alliance. In the Advisors alliance, Lady Bai dies from grief (because Sima Yi threw a tantrum at her during Wang Ling's rebellion) after being attacked by thieves, showing that Sima Yi did not want her dead, but was annoyed of her. in 2010 show, I genuinely believe Sima Yi really did kill her, as a final "sign-off" to the last remnants of the Wei Dynasty (Cao Pi's legacy). Its probably more symbolic, since historically Lady Bai was just a favoured concubine, nothing more nothing less.

[@andrewbalaz7228]

Ohh the younger concubine! I want to say her name was Bai Jingshu, but I mostly just remember the character portrayal ( think it was the same woman) from the 2010 3 Kingdoms series. Never looked into her much.

[@Killerbee4712]

I heard Jingshu was a made up name, because usually concubines dont have their name recorded. In Advisors alliance it was Bai Lingyun, so my guess is to just keep it as Lady Bai

[@andrewbalaz7228]

@@Killerbee4712 yeah I know there's a lot of mistranslation and "artistic freedom" with how 3 Kingdoms got chronicled and conveyed. But yeah Lady Bai I suppose would be the safe route. Haha

[@t_johan]

Incredible channel. Thanks for the content!

[@hengkybambang]

Thank You, Please keep up these content, i would like to keep increasing my knowledge about the time period

[@eliu868]

Ah, the tragedy of Zhang Chunhua: I feel Sima Yi was horribly cruel to Zhang Chunhua in her old age, casting her aside completely because of her looks despite their long history together. When she began a hunger protest, he couldn’t care less! It was only when her sons Sima Shi and Zhao joined her in hunger that he finally acknowledged her. He seemed pretty delighted to confide that he only did it for his sons, not Chunhua’s health. Damn dude, why you gotta be so cruel?

[@SeriousTrivia]

At least he didn’t execute her like Cao Pi and Cao Rui with their wives when they lost interest

[@nobblkpraetorian5623]

@@SeriousTrivia Well he wasn't the emperor so he couldn't simply kill her.

[@eliu868]

@@SeriousTrivia Yeah, but he sure would’ve have minded if she starved to death. So I don’t really know what’s worse :(

[@sweepingtime]

So who really ended the Wei faction? The corrupt and incompetent doings of the Cao clan, or Sima Yi's so-called ambitions?

[@SeriousTrivia]

Wei doesn’t end with Sima Yi. It would another two decade ish afterwards. It’s like what Cao Cao did to the Han. A slow shift and tightening control until you just force the puppet emperor to abdicate.

[@Aspiringamoeba1997]

@@SeriousTrivia So really, the official answer is Sima Yan, the "real answer" is Sima Zhao, and the root cause is Cao Rui and Cao Pi, who died too early and didn't rule long enough to stabilize their system. We see this pretty clearly in Cao Rui, who basically ran out of talent to put onto his young son, and it was especially bad because at least Cao Rui was basically an adult when he took power, while Cao Fang was a child. Child emperors are one of the fatal blows you get in dynasties.

[@herbangm.naibaho5405]

Karma is the answere.

[@twelve4682]

trivia questions : lady bai the mother of the future jin emperor sima lun, i knew this from the tv series " the advisors alliance" 😆

[@jamesthach2504]

Answer: Lady Bai also a second main female lead and love interest to Sima Yi in Advisors Alliance. Hey Serious Trivia, Will you eventually do a Lore series on Jiang Wei and his Disasters Northern Expeditions?

[@SeriousTrivia]

Yes

[@jamesthach2504]

Great I am very Curious what thumbnail you will use.

[@jayanthkn7056]

Lady Bai, of course.

[@Tobbs96]

How could Guo Huai simply take his men and leave the campaign? Isn't that, you know, desertion?

[@shinsenshogun900]

A desertion against the ill-fated military campaign? Sure, but if carried out in the least atrocious manner than that compared to the disastrous casualties incurred by Xiahou Xuan and Cao Shuang? He gets a promotion given by the Cao Shuang cabal there. However, as a leader of a supposedly vanguard force, which he is supposedly ahead of Wei's main body of the army in that battle, he manages to somehow withdraw ahead of detachments commanded by Cao Shuang, Xiahou Xuan, Yang Wei, and Sima Zhao after sensing a looming disaster. In any case, it won't be a treasonous desertion granted he had maintained much of his troops, supply train, and coolies back to their assembly point north of Hanzhong's Qinling mountains.

[@Tobbs96]

@@shinsenshogun900 I'd imagine Cao Shuang wouldn't appreciate it much. If anything, it'd open the door for him to blame his defeat on Guo Huai's desertion

[@panzerschliffehohenzollern4863]

Cao Shuang really was imcompetence in anything other than politic. How did he get away with it witout the emperor noticing his incompetence and recall him? Someone in the court must have been against him and be able to report to the emperor right?

[@SeriousTrivia]

The emperor had zero power. He was a kid (13 at this time). He attends court, listens as Cao Shuang and Sima Yi makes decisions. No one is on his side except maybe he adopted mother Empress Dowager Guo. The imperial secretaries who is suppose to advice him is led by He Yan, Deng Yang, and Ding Mi who were all placed there by Cao Shuang. The eight attendants who accompany him and advise him are basically spies sent by Cao Shuang. His personal guards are commanded by Cao Shuang’s brother Cao Xun. His palace guards are commanded by Cao Shuang’s brother Cao Xi. What’s he going say. Cao Shuang bad? It’s like asking why Liu Xie didn’t stop Cao Cao.

[@mauromarchante1733]

Great video as per usual . I wanted to ask where are those images from ? ( The ones you use for the generals ) .

[@SeriousTrivia]

half of them are from Total War Three Kingdoms and the other half are from ROTK 14

[@calvindufraisne]

Where’s your source for citing Jiang Wan and Jiang Wei’s participation in this campaign?

[@SeriousTrivia]

三国志·蜀志·王平传：涪诸军及大将军费禕自成都相继而至，魏军退还，如平本策。 From the Records of the Three Kingdoms Wang Ping's Chapter. The forces from Pei (Jiang Wan and Jiang Wei's garrison) and Grand General Fei Yi coming from Chengdu came one after another, the Wei force retreats, like Wang Ping had originally envisioned.

[@GrafvonKatze]

🔥

[@tonys9397]

Making all the wrong moves