a functional equation

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Michael Penn

Michael Penn

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 155
@DavidSavinainen
@DavidSavinainen 3 жыл бұрын
I love that it has the sum goes up to 19, the RHS has 95, and the sum is 1995. Brilliant!
@andreben6224
@andreben6224 3 жыл бұрын
That subtle use of the associativity of the addition on g is AWESOME!!! Such a nice trick!
@jamesfortune243
@jamesfortune243 2 жыл бұрын
Michael should write a book with the subjects/problems from all his KZbin videos, perhaps categorized by college course and/or subject matter (e.g., Japanese temple problems). I'd buy it.
@simoncopar2512
@simoncopar2512 Жыл бұрын
It is obvious from 4:16 that g is an involution (exchanges n and m, so applying it twice gives back the same thing). This shortens the last part, as involution immediately leads to A=1.
@jonathanbeeson8614
@jonathanbeeson8614 3 жыл бұрын
At 13:45, didn't you forget to transcribe a "+95" in evaluating the left hand side ? I really enjoy your work Professor Penn, btw.
@adityamohan7366
@adityamohan7366 3 жыл бұрын
same doubt here. But I think since it ends with a nice little value, there was another mistake somewhere else so the double mistake cancelled each other out?
@KishanSingh-fv9qj
@KishanSingh-fv9qj 3 жыл бұрын
He didn't write the 95 because there would be one 95 in the rhs too so he cancelled them both without mentioning:)
@lisandro73
@lisandro73 3 жыл бұрын
He forgot a 95 in the LHS
@robertmauck4975
@robertmauck4975 3 жыл бұрын
@@lisandro73 he also missed a +95 when he applied f on the rhs
@oliverfrancescoriccetti1391
@oliverfrancescoriccetti1391 3 жыл бұрын
I think he’s making these “auto-cancelling double mistakes” on purpose
@dicksonchang6647
@dicksonchang6647 3 жыл бұрын
13:38 you actually didn't write the +95 behind A(m+95)
@mooncowtube
@mooncowtube 3 жыл бұрын
Luckily he loses the +95 from the LHS when writing down the next line, and it matches out :-)
@emanuellandeholm5657
@emanuellandeholm5657 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks!
@PaulMurrayCanberra
@PaulMurrayCanberra 3 жыл бұрын
I was just about to comment on that, too.
@udic01
@udic01 3 жыл бұрын
13:41 you forgot to add 95 to rhs. But then you ignores the 95 on lhs. Two wrongs make a right...
@pedrocusinato1743
@pedrocusinato1743 3 жыл бұрын
minus minus is plus
@shivansh668
@shivansh668 3 жыл бұрын
Problem: |2^n + 5^n - 65| is a perfect square. Find all such positive Integers 'n' . Here |x| is a absolute value of 'x' Hey Michael, plz make a vedio on the solution of this problem 🙂
@AnneshaDas_IITB
@AnneshaDas_IITB 3 жыл бұрын
Is this sum from IOQM?
@goodplacetostop2973
@goodplacetostop2973 3 жыл бұрын
16:22
@TheRaf1
@TheRaf1 3 жыл бұрын
A good place to s...
@synaestheziac
@synaestheziac 3 жыл бұрын
“Peach parentheses” - love it. I wonder if that phrase has ever been uttered before
@MrRyanroberson1
@MrRyanroberson1 3 жыл бұрын
In a previous video, no doubt
@synaestheziac
@synaestheziac 3 жыл бұрын
@@MrRyanroberson1 it was! I watched another one where he said it
@trueriver1950
@trueriver1950 3 жыл бұрын
White chalk, peach chalk could be a good name of a channel... Oh wait!
@rektator
@rektator 3 жыл бұрын
Small comment about induction: Induction principle: Let S:N->N be the follower function of natural numbers. The induction axiom says that if A is a subset of N where 0 is in A and the image of A under S is included in A, then A = N. In other words the induction hypothesis should be of the form that let any k be in A. The induction statement is then that S(k) is in A. The point is that to assume that some k exists in A and S(k)\in A is not formally correct way to do induction. This property holds for the subset {0,1} of natural numbers.
@Fun_maths
@Fun_maths 3 жыл бұрын
Who knew that the solution of a problem would be the year of the problem
@tomatrix7525
@tomatrix7525 3 жыл бұрын
I’m sure a few contestants got that one right, after being messed up for 3h and the supervisor says, time, they write down, paniced, 1995. And what do you know
@garrethutchington1663
@garrethutchington1663 3 жыл бұрын
@ゴゴ Joji Joestar ゴゴ r/woosh
@tomatrix7525
@tomatrix7525 3 жыл бұрын
@ゴゴ Joji Joestar ゴゴ Yes! Lol, I didn’t even notice.
@juyifan7933
@juyifan7933 3 жыл бұрын
@@tomatrix7525 Though guessing the answer isnt worth any points. There is no point in guessing 1995 since even if you are right you wont get anything for it.
@mcwulf25
@mcwulf25 3 жыл бұрын
The best part of it is that the inputs are the year too.
@dominiquelarchey-wendling5829
@dominiquelarchey-wendling5829 Ай бұрын
The base case for the additive equation is not n = 1 but n = 0 instead. So proving g(0) = 0 which comes from g(0+0) = g(0)+g(0).
@debjitmullick7004
@debjitmullick7004 3 жыл бұрын
Sir ... What are some good books for Functional Equations
@h4z4rd28
@h4z4rd28 3 жыл бұрын
Thats a good question
@AnneshaDas_IITB
@AnneshaDas_IITB 3 жыл бұрын
I read from BJV
@electrovector7212
@electrovector7212 3 жыл бұрын
Look at the Functional Equation Book by Amir Hossein Parvardi from AoPS. Definitely enjoyable and useful
@AZ-be4hg
@AZ-be4hg 3 жыл бұрын
Гольдфарб
@debjitmullick7004
@debjitmullick7004 3 жыл бұрын
@@electrovector7212 thank you sir
@mw21016
@mw21016 2 жыл бұрын
i love this chap.
@wasitahmid749
@wasitahmid749 3 жыл бұрын
My own approach... Let m=95 Then f(95+f(n))=n+f(190) Now... Set, m = f(n)[since f:N->N taking f(n) is valid) It results in... f(f(n)+f(n))=n+f(f(n)+95) ................ = n+ f(95+f(n))= 2n+f(190) So, f(2n)=2n+190 Now the crux move.... Set m = f(x) [x is natural number] We get two results from given definition, 1.f(f(x)+f(n))=n+f(x+95) 2.f(f(n)+f(x))=x+f(n+95) Subtracting 1 from 2 We get f(x+95)-x=f(n+95)-n Thus f(n+95)-n= c [where c is a constant] So f(n+95)=n+c Set n=k-95 And get f(k) = k+c-95 So f(2(f(n))= 2(f(n))+c-95 >>>>>>>>> = 2(n+c-95)+c-95 >>>>>>>>> = 2n+3c-285 But f(2(f(n))= 2n+f(190) >>>>>>>>>>= 2n+c+95 Thus 2n+c+95=2n+3c-285 So..c=190 It means f(k)=k+95..TGPS...😇
@riadsouissi
@riadsouissi 3 жыл бұрын
Equalities 1 and 2 do not seem correct. f(x+95) should be f(f(x)+95)
@marcanthonymendietaolivos5933
@marcanthonymendietaolivos5933 3 жыл бұрын
El final fue épico, no me lo esperaba.
@cH3rtzb3rg
@cH3rtzb3rg 3 жыл бұрын
At 13:29 you forgot a +95 at the end (but in the next step you dropped it on the left hand side, so these errors cancelled out ...)
@luccavelier9514
@luccavelier9514 3 жыл бұрын
At 13:31 there is a mistake. On the right hand side, +95 is missing!!
@Reashu
@Reashu 3 жыл бұрын
It's missing on the LHS as well at 13:45 so it all works out in the end
@bigern73
@bigern73 3 жыл бұрын
Shouldn't there be a +95 at 13:44?
@evanev7
@evanev7 3 жыл бұрын
yeah I think so, but it cancelled with a 95 on the other side, which he didn't mention.
@bigern73
@bigern73 3 жыл бұрын
@@evanev7 I'm not so sure. There was a 95A on the RHS but no 95
@Reashu
@Reashu 3 жыл бұрын
@@bigern73 RHS at 13:31 should be n+A(m+95)+95, so they cancel.
@spiderjerusalem4009
@spiderjerusalem4009 7 ай бұрын
youtube algoirhtm blessing, i stumbled upon this problem on Titu's functional equation book with a fixed natural number k in place of 1995
@mathunt1130
@mathunt1130 3 жыл бұрын
If you take his hint and look for a linear function which satisfies that functional equation you get the function very quickly.
@FadkinsDiet
@FadkinsDiet 3 жыл бұрын
But that doesn't help you to prove that its the unique function that satisfies the equation
@mathunt1130
@mathunt1130 3 жыл бұрын
@@FadkinsDiet That's absolutely true.
@user-en5vj6vr2u
@user-en5vj6vr2u 2 жыл бұрын
Can anyone find a functional equation (the domain and codomain dont matter) that is satisfied by a linear function (ax+b) AND a nonlinear function? Myself i haven’t seen any, so i think you could conjecture that if a linear function satisfies a functional equation, then only linear function(s) satisfy the functional equation. Then, memorize the proof so you can use it on olympiad problems and such whenever a linear function turns out to be a solution by inspection. That would help because on this problem it wasn’t hard to find that x+95 worked, but the proof that it was unique was tough.
@caiodavi9829
@caiodavi9829 2 жыл бұрын
f(f(x)) = x. f(x) = x is a solution. f(x) = -x is a solution. f(x) = 1/x is a solution. f(x) = -1/x is a solution.
@wavyblade6810
@wavyblade6810 3 жыл бұрын
14:49 don't you mean applying g to 100?
@tomatrix7525
@tomatrix7525 3 жыл бұрын
I believe so, since g(1) would give something in the codomain anyway (-1) so 100(or really anything larger) would make senseto shoe we reject A = -1
@mcwulf25
@mcwulf25 3 жыл бұрын
A very cool answer. Who discovered that? I wonder if there is a general proof that all f(X + f(Y)) type problems will be linear? I feel like jumping to f(X) = aX + b whenever I see one.
@sk8erJG95
@sk8erJG95 2 жыл бұрын
Possibly using partial derivatives, in a sense? This solution is linear because the n term on the right is linear. I.e. for this problem, taking the derivative of both sides wrt n gives f'(n)f'(m+f(n)) = 1, and since f' maps to positive integers, we must have f'(n) = 1 for all n, which implies f(n) = n + k for some k. Plugging into the equation gives k = 95.
@sk8erJG95
@sk8erJG95 2 жыл бұрын
And if you replace the n with n^2, then the equation you get is f'(n)f'(m+f(n)) = 2n for all m,n. Assuming f'(n) ≠ 0, we get that f'(a) = f'(b) for all a,b > min(f(n)), so f(n) = n + k for sufficiently large n. Plugging in to f(m + f(n)) = n^2 + f(m+95) gives m+n+2k = n^2 + m + 95 + k, which implies k = n^2 ‐ n + 95, but that's not a constant, so we get a contradiction.
@sk8erJG95
@sk8erJG95 2 жыл бұрын
You can make your own functional equation for a quadratic too. For example, if f(n) = n^2 + 1, then it satisfies f(m+f(n)) = f(m+1) + f(f(n)) + 2mf(n) - 2m - 1. We can recover it by taking the derivative of that equation wrt n: f'(n)f'(m+f(n)) = f'(n)f'(f(n)) + 2mf'(n), So again assuming f'(n) ≠ 0, we get f'(m+f(n)) = f'(f(n)) + 2m, which shows that f'(n) = 2n + A for some A, which shows that f(n) = n^2 + An + B. And then plugging this in and solving should recover A,B
@ElchiKing
@ElchiKing 3 жыл бұрын
Ok, another way to solve this: Plugging in 0 for m, we get f(f(n))=n+f(95) [1] or f(f(n))-f(95)=n. Since this is true for all n in the natural numbers, we know that f is injective and the function g: Im(f)->N g(x)=f(x)-f(95) is its inverse. On the other hand, plugging in m=1, we get f(1+f(n))-f(96)=n. Hence, also h:Im(f)->N h(x)=f(1+x)-f(96) is an inverse function for f. But since the inverse function is unique, we get f(1+x)-f(96)=f(x)-f(95) for all x in Im(f). Rearranging, we get f(1+x)-f(x)=f(96)-f(95) for all x in Im(f) [2]. On the other hand, f(f(0))=f(95), which by the injectivity of f means f(0)=95. By f(n)+f(95)=f(f(f(n)))=f(n+f(95))=95+f(n+95) (LHS: plug in f(n) for n in [1], RHS: plug in [1] into the inner function and then the original equation) Rearranging: f(95)-95=f(n+95)-f(n) for all n in N [3]. In particular: f(95)-95=f(96)-f(1) or f(1)-95=f(96)-f(95), so f(1+x)-f(x)=f(1)-f(0) for all x in Im(f), i.e. f(1+x)=f(x)+f(1)-f(0) for x in Im(f) [4]. Now, since for any x>=f(95), we can choose y=f(x)-f(95) to get f(y)=x, Im(f) contains at least all numbers greater than f(95). Hence, we have f(x+f(95))=f(f(95))+x*(f(1)-f(0)) for all x>=0, where the second equation stems from [1]. However, because f reaches all values x for x>f(95), there is in particular some y in Im(f) with y>max(f(95),f(f(95)) such that y+1 is also in Im(f). Thus, there is some pair of integers x1,x2 such that f(f(95))+x1(f(1)-f(0))=y, f(f(95))+x2(f(1)-f(0))=y+1. Subtracting, we get (x1-x2)(f(1)-f(0))=1. Now, clearly (x1-x2) and (f(1)-f(2)) are both integers dividing 1. Now, we have f(1)-f(0)>0 [5, see below], so this means f(1)-f(0)=1, so f(x+f(95))=f(f(95))+x. Since f(n+95)-f(n) is constant by [3], and we clearly have f(95+f(95))-f(f(95))=95, we have f(n+95)-f(n)=95 for all n. In particular, since we know 95 values in progression, we can go backwards and get f(x+f(95))=f(f(95))+x for all x in N-f(f(95)). Substituting y for x+f(95), we get f(y)=f(f(95))-f(95)+y. Plugging in y=0 and f(0)=95, we get f(y)=95+y. And indeed: with f(y)=95+y, we get f(m+f(n))=95+m+95+n=n+(95+(95+m))=n+f(95+m). [5]: At this point, we need that f is a function from N to N: if f(1)-f(0)
@siddharthavlash1982
@siddharthavlash1982 3 жыл бұрын
You cannot plug 0 as m is a natural number.
@ElchiKing
@ElchiKing 3 жыл бұрын
@@siddharthavlash1982 0 is a natural number. (At least for most people it is)
@spiderjerusalem4009
@spiderjerusalem4009 7 ай бұрын
​@@ElchiKing"at least for most people" No
@wasitahmid749
@wasitahmid749 3 жыл бұрын
Wow...easy one!!!
@animalstiktokchannel3729
@animalstiktokchannel3729 2 жыл бұрын
That is nice
@tomatrix7525
@tomatrix7525 3 жыл бұрын
How would G(1) give -100 given A being -1, g = An = -1(1) = -1 ? It is in the co domain then?
@Артем-х9у9к
@Артем-х9у9к 3 жыл бұрын
He meant G(100)=-100.
@tomatrix7525
@tomatrix7525 3 жыл бұрын
@@Артем-х9у9к that would make alot more sense. Thanks
@mstarsup
@mstarsup 3 жыл бұрын
you really made 95 disappear from your equations at 13:28 and 13:43, as you said you would in your hint, but that was real magic, not mathematical magic... ;-)
@giorgioleoni3471
@giorgioleoni3471 6 ай бұрын
Once you get that g(m+n) = g(m) + g(n), you obtain that g(g(m)) =m, so A is 1
@shahinjahanlu2199
@shahinjahanlu2199 3 жыл бұрын
Bravo professor
@shahinjahanlu2199
@shahinjahanlu2199 3 жыл бұрын
Thx
@cosmosapien597
@cosmosapien597 2 ай бұрын
Replace n with m+f(n) in the original equation. You'll get f(n+t)-f(n)=t, where t=m+f(m+95) Observation is that f(n)=n+c Prove it the same way as in video. Put this in original equation to get c=95.
@attilaracz1991
@attilaracz1991 3 жыл бұрын
From 13:29, a bit confusing what's happening with 95's.
@TedHopp
@TedHopp 3 жыл бұрын
The "proof" (ending at about 12:00) that g(m) =Am is the solution to the functional equation g(r+s)=g(r)+g(s) only proves that such a form behaves linearly, not that it is the only functional form behaving that way.
@JohnSmith-vq8ho
@JohnSmith-vq8ho 3 жыл бұрын
Exactly
@Notthatkindofdr
@Notthatkindofdr 3 жыл бұрын
What do you mean? He did prove (by induction) that a function on the natural numbers that satisfies g(r+s)=g(r)+g(s) for all natural numbers r and s must have the form g(n)=An for a constant A.
@TedHopp
@TedHopp 3 жыл бұрын
@@Notthatkindofdr No, he proved by induction that a linear function satisfies the constraint g(r+s)=g(r)+g(s). He didn't prove that this is the only functional form that satisfies that constraint. (If we were operating over the reals instead of the natural numbers, for instance, the assertion would be false. There are nonlinear functions that satisfy the additive property.) A little more work is required. See, for instance, the Wikipedia article on Cauchy's functional equation en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauchy%27s_functional_equation
@Notthatkindofdr
@Notthatkindofdr 3 жыл бұрын
@@TedHopp I think you are forgetting that in this case g is only defined on the natural numbers. An induction proof shows that g(n)=An must be true for all natural numbers n, which is the only thing being claimed by Michael. This case is so simple, it is brushed over very briefly in the Wikipedia article you mentioned: at the beginning of Case II, equation (*), where we have alpha=n and x=1 (and g(1)=A), and it just refers to "repeated application of Cauchy's equation", i.e. induction. Edit: Maybe you are really complaining about 10:10 where he says "there is only one class of functions" that satisfies the additive rule, without specifying that he means "on the natural numbers".
@TedHopp
@TedHopp 3 жыл бұрын
@@Notthatkindofdr I'm not saying that the assertion of uniqueness is false, just that the proof offered doesn't prove uniqueness. The argument given in the Wikipedia article, by contrast, does prove uniqueness (for the rationals).
@prag9582
@prag9582 4 ай бұрын
Isn't a proof of uniqueness of g() missing to provide a complete answer? "Prove there is a unique..." I wonder if it would be necessary in IMO or not.
@keishakwok4333
@keishakwok4333 9 ай бұрын
Has it been shown that this is the only solutions of f(n) that satisfy the equation?
@buxeessingh2571
@buxeessingh2571 3 жыл бұрын
In 1995, I would be very suspicious if I saw the 19 as a limit of the sum because it is a factor of 1995. So if I don't see a 1995 in the solution, I would figure I did something wrong and double-check where I might have gone awry.
@headlibrarian1996
@headlibrarian1996 3 жыл бұрын
Math competitions seem to like such “coincidences”. If I saw that I would assume it was right because of the meta game.
@harshanand127
@harshanand127 3 жыл бұрын
Om the other hand if I see that the answer I got was 1995,I would be sure that I got it right..but wait...what if the question setter was evil and if there was a point where we had to add one and you missed it thinking you got 1995 and it's year 1995 so you don't recheck and answer was somehow 1996...
@buxeessingh2571
@buxeessingh2571 3 жыл бұрын
@@harshanand127 you would think -- but it never happens.
@MrGyulaBacsi
@MrGyulaBacsi Жыл бұрын
I'm not sure whether anybody else has mentioned this here before: I think Michael only proved that the linear function is a solution to that additive functional equation. He did not prove that this is the only possible solution. Or am I missing something?
@gerardevrard29
@gerardevrard29 3 жыл бұрын
Hello, tentative simpler solution... STEP 1 For any y and m there exist n = y - f(m+95). So there exist n so that y = n + f(m+95) So per the definition there exist n so that y = f(m + f(y - f(m+95)) ) = f(x) Conclusion : for any y there exist an x so that y = f(x) STEP 2 With m=0 we get f(f(n)) = f(95) With m=1 we get f(f(n)+1) = f(96) So for any n : f(f(n)+1) - f(f(n)) = f(96) - f(95) = a constant let's say K But for any y there is an n so that f(n) = y So for any y : f(y+1) - f(y) = K CONCLUSION f is linear on integers. It is easy from there to fing f(x) = x + 95 QED
@gerardevrard29
@gerardevrard29 3 жыл бұрын
Sorry in STEP 2 of course f(f(n)) = n+f(95) and f(f(n)+1) = n+f(95) But the proof is still ok.
@prithujsarkar2010
@prithujsarkar2010 3 жыл бұрын
awesome video
@yoav613
@yoav613 3 жыл бұрын
if you take n=m+95 you get f(m+f(m+95))=(m+f(m+95))+95 and this is trur for any m.
@Артем-х9у9к
@Артем-х9у9к 3 жыл бұрын
But you can't say that f(x)=x+95 for any x. Only for x which can be presented in the form m+f(m+95).
@yoav613
@yoav613 3 жыл бұрын
@@Артем-х9у9к yes .but there are infinite values of x= m+f(m+95) so you may say that the only function that satisfying this is f(x)= x+95
@sasharichter
@sasharichter 3 жыл бұрын
I applied the same logic. And even if one were to skip on proving the solution thus derived is unique the sum of f(k) over k=1 to 19 must be unique and hence correct.
@robertapsimon3171
@robertapsimon3171 3 жыл бұрын
It seems to me that you showed that g(n) = A.n is a function that satisfies g(a+b)=g(a)+g(b), but you didn’t appear to show that this is the only class of functions that meets the condition.
@robertapsimon3171
@robertapsimon3171 3 жыл бұрын
Also it seems that you dropped a 95 in the determination of A I think
@Notthatkindofdr
@Notthatkindofdr 3 жыл бұрын
That's what he proved by induction. Let g be a function satisfying the condition on natural numbers, define A=g(1), and then he proves that g(n)=An for all natural numbers n.
@crazy4hitman755
@crazy4hitman755 3 жыл бұрын
This is magnificent
@SlidellRobotics
@SlidellRobotics 3 жыл бұрын
14:53 co-domain? I learned that the set of outputs of a function was the range.
@asmeurer
@asmeurer 3 жыл бұрын
When you define a function f:A -> B, B is called the co-domain. The range is f(A), the set of all values that are actually obtained by f, which is a subset of the co-domain but may be smaller.
@giorgostarnaras5658
@giorgostarnaras5658 3 жыл бұрын
They had a very similar functional problem in 2018 i think
@Rory626
@Rory626 Жыл бұрын
Seems a bit overkill to use induction to prove that a linear function satisfies a linear property, no?
@user-A168
@user-A168 3 жыл бұрын
Good
@RDimon2912
@RDimon2912 3 жыл бұрын
I just try: n = 0, m = 0: f(f(0)) = f(95). n = 95, m = 0: f(f(95)) = 95 + f(95) X = f(f(0)) Then f(X) = 95 + X.
@arsen6653
@arsen6653 3 жыл бұрын
Нельзя подставлять ноль в таких случаях, он не входит в область определения
@wasitahmid749
@wasitahmid749 3 жыл бұрын
It is defined on the NATURAL numbers man!!! Natural numbers means positive integers( greater than 0)...so you cannot actually have f(0)
@laszloliptak611
@laszloliptak611 3 жыл бұрын
@@wasitahmid749 In many places the set of natural numbers is defined to contain 0. You are correct though that the problem specifies that 0 is not included.
@puikihung5882
@puikihung5882 Жыл бұрын
in your case, f(x)=95+x is only true when x=f(95) or f(f(0)). f(95) or f(f(0)) is a constant but not a variable. if f(3)=95+3, you cannot claim that x=3, therefore, f(x)=95+x
@sidimohamedbenelmalih7133
@sidimohamedbenelmalih7133 3 жыл бұрын
I want to know how you comment before watching the video 🤣🤣
@yt-1161
@yt-1161 3 жыл бұрын
Add k to both sides. Now left compose bots sides with f, apply given equation you get, f(n+k+95)=f(n)+f(k+95) Then define g:=f-95 The rest (from 7:47 onwards) is similar. No need to play around with g
@tomatrix7525
@tomatrix7525 3 жыл бұрын
13:24 did he forget +95?
@krisbrandenberger544
@krisbrandenberger544 3 жыл бұрын
I do not understand why applying g to one gives negative 100.
@krisbrandenberger544
@krisbrandenberger544 3 жыл бұрын
I do not understand why applying G to 1 gives -100 when A=-1.
@yannickxu9238
@yannickxu9238 3 жыл бұрын
Can anyone help me how to prove that, for all positive real numbers (x,y), x^y+y^x>1?
@reeeeeplease1178
@reeeeeplease1178 3 жыл бұрын
Maybe you could try a case by case approach: x>1: If y>1 then x^y >1 If y=1 then y^x + x^y = 1 + x > 1 If y1 Just realized x^y > 1 in all those cases xD The only problem could be x,y
@mathunt1130
@mathunt1130 3 жыл бұрын
Define f(x,y)=x^y+y^x, and use calculus to find the minimum.
@ricardocavalcanti3343
@ricardocavalcanti3343 3 жыл бұрын
@@mathunt1130 There is no minimum in the first quadrant, only a saddle point.
@mehdimarashi1736
@mehdimarashi1736 3 жыл бұрын
@@ricardocavalcanti3343 That's good enough, in that case the minimum is on the boundary, and since the value of the function on the boundary is 1 and since the boundary is not included in the domain, the function is strictly >1.
@ricardocavalcanti3343
@ricardocavalcanti3343 3 жыл бұрын
@@mehdimarashi1736 Good point!
@Stelios2711
@Stelios2711 3 жыл бұрын
I found the finding of the Cauchy functional equation that g satisfies a bit unmotivated...
@amit2.o761
@amit2.o761 3 жыл бұрын
👍
@edmundwoolliams1240
@edmundwoolliams1240 2 жыл бұрын
When I’m watching this I can’t stop thinking about Windows 95 :’)
@peterdriscoll4070
@peterdriscoll4070 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, lots of the functions in these functional equations are pretty inane.
@Артем-х9у9к
@Артем-х9у9к 3 жыл бұрын
g(m+g(n))=n+g(m)=> g(n)-bijection (if g(n)=g(k) then left sides are equal, but right sides are different). g(m+n)=g(m)+g(n)=g(m+g(n))=> g(n)=n because of bijection.
@ricardocavalcanti3343
@ricardocavalcanti3343 3 жыл бұрын
The identity g(m)+g(n)=g(m+g(n)) is not obvious to me. Can you derive it without using the fact that g(n)=n?
@spiderjerusalem4009
@spiderjerusalem4009 7 ай бұрын
Surjectivity isn't needed(and so neither bijectivity). Injectivity suffices enough for alternative argument. The eq above doesn't generally imply surjectivity as the value g(m) could hinder the varying n from taking all values in ℕ-k (here, k in place of 95)
@sasharichter
@sasharichter 3 жыл бұрын
let n=m+95, then f(m+f(m+95)) = m+f(m+95) +95 hence f(n)=n+95...
@Reliquancy
@Reliquancy 3 жыл бұрын
What proved that the only thing that would work was a polynomial line?
@BrianDominy
@BrianDominy 3 жыл бұрын
If you assume f(x)=ax+b for some a,b from the get-go, you can eliminate all of the substitutions. Just plug in and rearrange to get b=n/a+95-an, which can only be a natural number for all n if a=1, thus b=95.
@giuseppemalaguti435
@giuseppemalaguti435 2 жыл бұрын
f(n) =n+95 io l'ho fatto in 2 minuti
@danyilpoliakov8445
@danyilpoliakov8445 Жыл бұрын
Actually for functions defined in real numbers linear class is not the only one satisfying additive property. There are some really weird functions that can satisfy it. These functions are discontinouos at every point.
@coolbepis9301
@coolbepis9301 3 жыл бұрын
Much simpler way: let m = 0. so f(f(n)) = n + f(95). Therefore f(n) is a linear function, since f(95) is a constant. f(f(0)) = f(95), so f(0) = 95. therefore f(n) = n + 95
@justinvillafuerte8738
@justinvillafuerte8738 3 жыл бұрын
correct me if im wrong but i think f(0) is not equal to 95 in your proof because you haven't proved that the function is injective
@nirmankhan2134
@nirmankhan2134 2 жыл бұрын
m can't be equal to zero.
@nelum4311
@nelum4311 3 жыл бұрын
Mr Michael. please tell me are you a harvard teacher , much respect, even some of the top teachers cant solve many you do
@joaopedrobmenezes2977
@joaopedrobmenezes2977 3 жыл бұрын
Alternative solution: if m= 0 f(f(n)) = n + f(95). Let f(95) = k and g(x)=f(f(x)), só we have: g(n) = n + k. Since we are working with the Natural Numbers and g is linear, we can think f as polynomial with integer coefficients, so is quite natural to realize that f has to be linear, so let f(n) = an + c, we have a(an + c) + c= n + k , and from this we can conclude that a^2n = n -> a=1 (because of the polynomial equality rule) and replacing it in the original equation, we get f(n) = n + 95.
@joaopedrobmenezes2977
@joaopedrobmenezes2977 3 жыл бұрын
But still, I prefer Michaels way of solving the problem, I think it’s more creative
@caiodavi9829
@caiodavi9829 2 жыл бұрын
you can`t plug 0, since it`s a function from the natural numbers to the natural numbers. (no zero included, as he states in the beggining of the video)
@caiodavi9829
@caiodavi9829 2 жыл бұрын
assume P(m,n) as a notation for plugging m and n, respectively, at the function f. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- let a, b be natural numbers s.t f(a) = f(b) = c. P(1,a) -> f(1 + f(a)) = a + f(96). ->f(1+c) = a + f(96) P(1,b) ->f(1 + f(b)) = b + f(96). ->f(1+c) = b + f(96). -> a + f(96) = b + f(96). -> a = b. -> f is injective ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- P(m, n+x) [x is a natural number] -> f(m + f(n+x)) = [n + f(m + 95)] + x -> f(m+f(n+x)) = f(m + f(n)) + x for all natural m,n,x. P(n, f(m)) [m is a natural number, so f(m) is a natural number] ->f(f(m) + f(n)) = n + f(f(m) + 95) ->f(f(m) + f(n)) = f(f(m+n) + 95) [via the relation i proved above] ->f(m) + f(n) = f(m+n) + 95 [via injectivity] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- now, we have to deal with a much simpler f.e: f(m) + f(n) = f(m+n) + 95 P(m,1) -> f(m) + f(1) = f(m+1) + 95. [let f(1) - 95 = c] -> f(m+1) = f(m) + c basically, f is an arithmetic progression. -> f(n) = f(1) + (n-1)*(f(1)-95) plugging this into the original equation, we get that f(1) = 96 is the only valid solution. -> f(n) = 96 + (n-1)*1 -> f(n) = n + 95.
@shahinjahanlu2199
@shahinjahanlu2199 3 жыл бұрын
Bravo professor
a quick algebra problem.
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