A Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days Combat Retrospective

Рет қаралды 5,966

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 98

@KyKyBalao 4 ай бұрын

Im playing days for the first time now and wow. the combat is surprisingly good for a game many told me it wasnt worth it getting into, im having lots of fun playing multiplayer with my cousins

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

Multiplayer is the one thing I have yet to fully experience with this game but I will eventually. Have fun with your first playthrough!

@Kingdombattlepvp 4 ай бұрын

@@KeyofTime15multiplayer is the best , especial the player vs player

@janrosa7243 4 ай бұрын

The issue isn’t the combat it’s the mission/story structure that was meant to be played on the go primarily. Add to that the BBS stan crowd likes to trash the ds titles when imo they have the weakest combat of the handheld titles (though admittedly the most interesting mechanics)

@handsoaphandsoap 4 ай бұрын

The combat is fine but a little janky admittedly, which is mostly the fault of the DS being a pretty weak console. Otherwise the combat is no different than the two numbered titles that preceded it. Personally, my main issue with the game is the enemies since pretty much all of them are damage sponges. They could’ve tweaked the HP numbers a bit to make the game less tedious.

@TotallyCluelessGamer 4 ай бұрын

I know Infamous bosses like Leechgrave and Ruler Of The Sky start sweating bullets the moment they see Roxas roll up with 35 casts of lv.5 Fire.

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

They won't know what hit them

@elbow_juice 4 ай бұрын

Great video! Love Days, the combat always felt comparable to KH1's depth. Really great for a handheld game, but like all of KH you don't really notice it until you're on the harder difficulty.

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

I agree, I enjoy your deep dive into different aspects of one and I hope I can show off more of Days in the same way

@thehatman7051 4 ай бұрын

y'know, its funny, I tend to imagine Roxas as sort of a lightning bruiser thanks to the dual keyblades, but he has one of the most magic focused games in the series! Excellent video that once again is gonna come in real handy when showing the game to my friends. I love the magic system, and would honestly love to see it return for another game (thanks modders for adding it to 3), and tying different combos to different keys was a great way to increase combo variety! Helps that the game has some incredible keyblades in general, the Aubade is still one of my favorites in the franchise (and honestly what I think should be Xion's default key). Had no clue about Alive and Kicking, that feels like its gonna be real helpful

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

Yes the magic system is really impressive and definitely deserves a return in some capacity in the future I think 🤔

@ogskraxx6678 4 ай бұрын

Excuse my French but GAH DAMN!! This is so in depth and I never new 90% of this stuff, and im a defender of Days. Your research is insane man, Amazing video!!!

@Joost8910 4 ай бұрын

The vitality surge, vitality barrier, and alive 'n' kicking abilities on the Omega Weapon pair fantastically with several Curas to keep your HP full at all times. One of my favorite builds to go for.

@Sonnance 4 ай бұрын

Great video, thanks for making this! Hopefully this helps encourage more people to give Days another look. Oh, a few things to add about Abilities: Critical Boost doesn't actually raise your Crit Rate, instead doing something *much* cooler. Normally, you can only crit on attacks with "Finisher" properties (not necessarily the last hit, some Keyblade have Finishers in the middle of their combos, like with launchers.) But with Crit Boost, every single hit now rolls for crits. And considering how important crits are in this game, that's a huge deal. Combine that with a long combo Keyblade like Abaddon Plasma, as well as the Combo Boost ability, and you can deal devastating damage. It's no exaggeration to say that Critical Boost is the most powerful ability for any physical build, and arguably the most powerful, period. And speaking of physical, Combo Air-Slide and Combo Jump might not sound super exciting, but they can be used to pull off some stylish ladder combos, or extend your combos by transitioning from ground to air, and vice versa. Not to mention the endlag cancel is useful for dodging as well. And yeah, Days is definitely a *very* magic focused game (my favorite magic in the series, honestly) but there's a surprising amount you can do to make physical viable as well, even on Proud!

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for clarifying Crit Boost!

@blueshellincident 4 ай бұрын

Critical Sun enjoyers such as myself are living the best lives possible.

@X_Nexus 4 ай бұрын

0:53 Oh my goodness, thank you for saying this!!! I swear the hate towards the Osaka developed games and nostalgia bias for kh2 grew in the mid 2010s. It’s funny how no one complains when glitches and exploits are found in kh2 but if you find any on the Osaka games, you’ll find snarky replies. And when some people try to ‘correct’ kh3, whether in plot or gameplay, they end up making another copy of kh2. Thank you for shining a light on other KH games since I see the beauty and strengths of all of them.

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

We appreciate all the spin offs here, but Days just holds a special spot in my heart

@X_Nexus 4 ай бұрын

@@KeyofTime15 It’s pretty cool seeing a channel community appreciate all KH games! And it’s pretty cool now that 358/2 days has been modified to really play seamlessly on the pc and steam deck :) I want to replay the game in its full glory sometime!

@Drop_the_edit 4 ай бұрын

another great video AND i would say the most useful guide yet (at least for me, lol) also i just want to take a minute and appreciate how hard many of these keyblade names go, missing ache, pain of solitude, sign of innocence, crown of guilt and many others go hard af! and lastly i just got to mention how much i love all the models, now it's not just uncanny xion but axel, roxas and donald aswell (donald acting like he's part of the trio just because he ate sea salt icecream in that 1 cutscene)

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

The keyblade names are SO damn cool. Super underrated really if I'm being honest. I'll take Crown of Guilt over 3 wishes any day

@OrigamiAhsoka 3 ай бұрын

The customizability of this game is definitely my favorite part of it; every single aspect is changeable and it’s extremely cool.

@GaijinController 4 ай бұрын

This is probably the only video I've seen that actually talks about the gameplay of days and goes in depth on it. I'm more of a coded fan but great vid

@obeserob5027 4 ай бұрын

Ngl the depth of the systems really comes out during multiplayer. I was always way higher leveled than my friends but when they started to get closer to me I noticed how insanely different their movesets were compared to when we started. Of course that didn't stop me from 1-shotting them with thundaga. Good times

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

I still really need to try the multiplayer, someday

@thebigchungus4515 4 ай бұрын

Very nice video. One thing I think is really interesting is how you can see several of h.a.n.d’s design philosophies/aspects in Days and Recoded actually get translated to their latest full 3D combat game, NEO TWEWY, such as lightning attacks stacking up on walls, launchers setting up for more damage, status effects setting up more physical damage, and more.

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

I didn't know this, I'll have to try neo out sometime

@omegahaxors9-11 4 ай бұрын

The fact he's the only character in the entire series shown to cast magic out of their bare hand, that should tell you something.

@acekingxiii2496 4 ай бұрын

Riku?

@AdeptArcanist 4 ай бұрын

Oh man, I've always loved Days, but even I didn't know about some of these abilities! I'd love to see a video about the accessories - and yeah, Days has my 100% favorite magic system of any KH game I've played!

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

I'll take a look into that accessories video, happy you found the video educational 💯👏

@thelightseeker94 4 ай бұрын

358/2 days was the most satisfying experience getting to the end game and unlocking the full square board customization.

@ultimatealdo1922 4 ай бұрын

Lurk Lizard and Veil Lizard are the interesting heartless which are the cousins of the Stealth Sneak and Sneak Army from KH1 it’s been underrated that we never see another heartless that looks like a chameleon

@RandomLap 4 ай бұрын

You know I kinda want to see a combat Retrospective for the other playable characters too (their weapons/limit breaks etc)

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

I could make that happen honestly, just going through each individual members tool kit

@Dragonking2356 Ай бұрын

I never knew any of this. I always just defaulted with power units then eventually learned crit damage and chance are nutty and decked into that. But like seeing the magic so advanced and the abilities. Makes me excited and want to attempt new build runs.

@Fenyx_Birb 4 ай бұрын

I always loved making magic centric builds in games, something fun about just having a portable nuke on you at all times just to whip out and decimate an encounter.

@LanzTheMaster 4 ай бұрын

Never knew Days had so much depth & customization in it's combat!

@chaosxrunner 4 ай бұрын

Would love a discussion about accessories (rings) in 358/2.

@Petty_Vengeance 4 ай бұрын

I do love the magic system in Days BUT I'm a strength user first and foremost so this is how I passed the game which is helped by one of my favorite parts of the gameplay, the abilities. The simplest and coolest example I can think of is when I discovered Roxas could use Air Recovery through the Leechgrave's multi-hit 0-knockback hand attack, just two abilities made 10 minutes of mission into 1-2 minutes, I even got the timed Leechgrave challenge the first try like this. Also how the Zero Gear ground finisher could target enemies behind you just reminded me of Roxas's KH3 dash attack for some reason.

@dmas7749 4 ай бұрын

as someone who beat this game at level 1, i'm pretty dang sure i know how to play it. i did really like the keyblades in this game, having them alter your combo is a nice adjacency to how they had abilities in 2 i think its fair to say this isn't as good as KH2's combat, its still peak. but i also am not of those people who thinks its bad because it isn't 2's combat, and i woulda liked to see more discussion focused on the actual combat rather than just the prep stage

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

Yeah I mean I still really enjoy this games combat, it's not KH2 but it's unique in its own way and that was the main selling point

@SweisSenpai 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for including my face 🤣 absolutely loved this because as much as I love KH2 and 3 for its combat, all the games have amazing fun to be had with the combat systems

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

It was a pleasure to have you on! It was about damn time hahaha

@starmangalaxy2001 4 ай бұрын

8:15 Normally Critical hits can normally only happen on finishers (Like most of KH1) Critical Boost makes it so all of your attacks have a portion of your critical hit chance. A lot more notable, but still isn't the best considering how heavy the investment of a critical build is, compared to throwing on the pure strength keyblades and calling it a build. The pure strength keyblades are probably my favorite as they usually have a reasonable 3 hit air combo and a relatively short ground combo, I think a lot of the distaste for 358's Melee combat comes from the fact that a lot of the early physical keyblades are ground combo focuses that take 3 decades to reach the finisher and have a poor 2 hit aerial combo, they're too the point that in my most recent playthrough where I rocked a strength build all the way through, I literally didn't use the first few gears I was offered and stuck to Kingdom Key and was happier for it. EDIT: Even on a strength build, don't sleep on Magic, Presumably in an effort to not just make Magic Keyblades the go to, Magic Keyblades don't boost their main stat nearly as much as Strength Keyblades do, instead a good amount of your magic stat will come from level ups, so even running a strength build, your magic can be quite important against the enemies that are weak to magic, and having a good strength stat means that you can ignore the "One magic cast on the screen at a time" rule that otherwise slows down pure magic setups.

@SirIsaacFortesque 4 ай бұрын

As a newer fan of the series, I was pretty surprised that I've enjoyed Day's gameplay as m much as I do, sure it's not as fun as the other games, but I still think it's fun enough in its own right, I like the fact that it makes me play around with my deck, it's part of why I don't enjoy Reverse/Rebirth that much, just going in with a static deck that's handed to you instead of building your own isn't really my idea of fun in a game that has a deck building system. (And also, thank you for saying what I want to say about the KH2 fanboys at the beginning of the video)

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

🫡🫡

@davesinsanestudio8072 4 ай бұрын

Oh. I didn't know about the Aero and Thunder combo.

@DyxoXinoro 4 ай бұрын

I actually recently finished playing Days "in real time" where I'd only do one mission per day to sync up my experience with Roxas'. I think this is the first game where I found myself not only naturally gravitating towards magic, but actively building for it and manupulating shortcuts and the command menu based on what spells I have and can use. Its a special kind of high turning someone who was just this kid swinging a bat in 2's tutorial into a god damn keyblade wizard dropping down blasts of electric judgement like I'm god damn Ramuh.

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

I just did this too! Recorded the process too if you're interested :)

@vulpinitemplar5036 Ай бұрын

I've always loved it, even the slow clunky melee was great once I discovered that the combo button was a prompt and not like acknowledgement of the combo or something :p

@gracekim1998 4 ай бұрын

Yeah learned that the hard way with RECOM😅

@FierySprites 4 ай бұрын

I wish _358/2 Days_ had, like, an area where you could just freely practice your combos and magic in the hub world _without_ having to go into a mission first. It'd be a lot easier to experiment with your panel setup then, like I imagine Square/h.a.n.d. _wants_ players to do. And also if you could see what weapon you'll get from a specific Gear, since otherwise you have to physically equip it first and some of them have some weird panel layouts.

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

I too wish this were the case

@omegahaxors9-11 4 ай бұрын

Pretty much this. I just rolled a general build that got me through the whole game. I was always waiting for a mission that would expect me to rethink my strategy and that only really happened on those complete bullshit bosses (you know the ones) I took on the zip slasher in the early game (apparently you're not supposed to beat it) so I had a wildly distorted prospective on what the game was supposed to be like. They never do a difficulty spike like that again and I think it's huge missed potential.

@meancrank9039 4 ай бұрын

It’s actually better to me than BBS tbh. While it doesn’t have new worlds, the platforming and battle feel more open and nuanced to me. If I ever get around to making a dream game, it’d take a lot of inspiration from days.

@mindofone 4 ай бұрын

I think people would like Days combat more if they didn’t have such a funky ability progression. Sliding dash and some other abilities can’t get upgraded properly until you beat the game or play mission mode. It leaves people with an impression that the game is lacking when they’re actually missing their full kit.

@Now_Roxas 4 ай бұрын

Omg that's my 2nd favorite KH game how could you tell? #KH358FMWhenSE&Disney

@seriodenoyarohi7403 Ай бұрын

If you have problems with the camera and are playing on an actual DS: Try using your thumb to change the camera via the touch screen. It is a bit awkward at first, but I have done that since my first playthrough and it became second nature in time. (I usually just do very short swipes to adjust the camera slightly.)

@corel7966 4 ай бұрын

kh days love? let's go

@tatlxtael2303 4 ай бұрын

When I played Days for the first time, I couldn’t stand using any key other than the air combo one. The rest just all felt so bad to me x-x

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

I mean I sort of felt the same way, but I hope this video helped you realize the other options are good too 👀

@tatlxtael2303 4 ай бұрын

@@KeyofTime15 It mostly did yeah- apart from the one gimmick of the keyblade that's slow but strong. Without any extra spectacle to it, it just didn't feel satisfying to me

@fernando98322 4 ай бұрын

You should make a similar video for Re:Coded, seriously underrated games just because they were on the DS

@lordmcsmith 2 ай бұрын

If you compare the combat across ask of the side games, Days is probably the one that feels most similar to a mainline KH title. Roxas' melee combos have a surprising amount of weight to them, and the magic system is designed more around function than style. I'm actually surprised h.a.n.d. didn't get more work on the series with how faithfully they were able to recreate the combat mechanics from the console games on a Nintendo handheld system. Honestly, the biggest fault in Days' combat is probably the enemy behavior. The heartless and nobodies in the mainline games have very imaginative movement and attack patterns. They lay traps, they teleport, they guard attacks from certain directions, they alternate between spells, etc. On the other hand, with a couple of exceptions, the enemies in Days are largely static, and even boss heartless rarely have more than a couple of easily-avoidable moves. One reason why most of the larger enemies feel like health sponges is because they repeat the same attacks over and over - no DMs, no phase changes, no interacting with the environment or any other mechanics that would keep the encounters fresh and exciting. That, combined with an over-reliance on enemy palette swaps can make many of the missions feel pretty monotonous. And I can accept that the lack of variety was likely due to hardware limitations. It certainly would be fun to see what a remake of the game with more development time on a bigger disc would look like. But the time for that is probably past. It's always been my favorite KH spinoff, though. I still play the Melon version now and then.

@subb9011 4 ай бұрын

yea i agree im glad to see more love for the spinoffs i myself adore chain of memories heehee

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

Chain of Memories is super fun too

@jaxsonadros2066 4 ай бұрын

So, I just wanted to say that the Magic system is quite nice. I love days, it's like Monster Hunter for KH fans! Also, the way the Magic works with having a certain number accessible I believe falls under the Vancian system of Magic, where you have a number of slots dedicated to spells, rather than MP. Which harkens back to Final Fantasy 1s style of Magic (NES and Pixel Remaster), using Vancian because it was replicating popular ttrpgs at the time like D&D.

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

Oh yeah it totally is! I've been getting deep into D&D lately but I hadn't fully made that connection until you commented this. It all makes sense now

@pokemonduck 15 күн бұрын

I would still prefer if Days had combat like Coded but I admit that is mostly due to the fact that I don't like that magic is single-use only, it triggers my ''I MUST SAVE THEM'' OCD :D

@TheManofManyTitles 4 ай бұрын

Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days probably does the best when it comes to magic because each type feels useful to some situation and is different from upgraded or downgraded versions of itself. Firea for instance isn't just "fire but big", as you've shown. With each spell having different effects, there's a legitimate reason to bring them all along! Even cure's variants have various uses, with cure healing you a set amount all at once, cura healing you over time when you know you will get hit a lot, and curaga which can be useful if you have to hold a certain position or purposefully corner yourself to get a tactical advantage. However, this system has the disadvantage of being limited in the number of casts by the panel system (since you have to bring spells with you), and by the game's design itself. A new player who doesn't know what they're getting into with each mission isn't going to bring every spell with them due to limited panel space, and is likely to only bring spells useful to most general situations rather than the few specific spells useful to this specific mission. And those who have played the game before at least once will instead min-max their spells for every mission, but have to spend literal minutes planning their build before each one. Dream Drop Distance and Birth By Sleep with their command system are... better? But not by much. You can now choose specific spells and attacks for your command deck that you ALWAYS have access to, but those spells have a cool down once used. Unlike 358/2 days, you can't permanently run out of magic, so longer drawn out fights are technically feasible. But with the inherent limits of the system, combat is slower and generally has less options than 358/2 Days. If you ever show that game, prehaps you can show your take on the matter. It'd be cool to see you explain the slot and panel system a bit more, as well as the various abilities in rings you didn't explain. Also, a dedicated video to the command deck (if you've played BBS or DDD) would serve as a comparison to this video, as I would assume those games are a type of evolution on this one in terms of combat. Yeah though, I think magic was done REALLY well in 358/2 Days, and with some improvements should be how the games used magic going forward.

@Mimiyan_or_Pikapikafan 2 ай бұрын

I'm playing Days for the first time ever and personally since I'm focusing on a mage build it's been pretty smooth sailing with Fire, Thunder, and Cure so far, despite me for some reason deciding Proud mode is a perfectly reasonable difficulty for a first playthrough. Random question, but do most people who play days use Ethers at all or am I doing what most people do and getting a ton of casts on one or two spells and 5 Cures is enough Also love how there's like Combo Master mini apllied to Roxas's base keyblade swings. If he's hit he'll stop the combo, but if you swing at nothing he'll still continue his combo unlike other KH games. This means that I can preemptively swing at an enemy and then have the finisher hit them

@zackwilson4607 3 ай бұрын

I very much agree that 358/Days is much better than people say. I always learn towards magic in KH games so when i noticed how strong it was i went all in on it. I am nearing the end game with 18fire. 6blizzard. 6thunder. 8thundara. 6thundaga(i like thunder) 8 aeros. With a few curas and items. I really like spamming magic to win but there are also some really great keyblades with fast combos. Im glad that people are still enjoying this game today.

@KeyofTime15 3 ай бұрын

It's my favorite game of all time and I'm happy to hear it when someone else gets where I'm coming from

@zackwilson4607 3 ай бұрын

@@KeyofTime15 whats your favorite keyblades to use at endgame? I know a lot of people like zero but i like to try out the others. Im collecting all of them anyways. So far i like the hazard gear+ for its elemental finishers

@Kingdombattlepvp 4 ай бұрын

Lov this game

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

Me too

@johnseymore4774 4 ай бұрын

Great video! But why were you showing off Magic Finale against an enemy immune to magic??

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

To see if anyone would point it out I also used fire against a fire plant near the end lol

@chronicguardian9684 4 ай бұрын

Greatest mage in the 'verse, eh? Long live the Brown Coats.

@KeyofTime15 4 ай бұрын

Ayo?

@chronicguardian9684 4 ай бұрын

@@KeyofTime15 Was that not a Firefly "Ain't no power in the 'verse" reference?

@joeyjose727 4 ай бұрын

I wonder if a different controller than the DS would’ve made me enjoy Days more! And I guess I do appreciate the uniqueness of Magic in days, but idk I feel like some of the spells were mostly just bad 😭

@ezronco.8671 4 ай бұрын

I'm honestly kinda mad that alive' n kicking needs to be an ability rather than just be the default for all characters and weapons. And what's worse is that you can only do it at full hp which can be difficult from how annoying certain enemies could be. I wish someone makes a mod or code that lets us use that ability without the need for 3 ability units and full hp. Other than that the combat is pretty cool and interesting and has its own depth to it.

@omegahaxors9-11 4 ай бұрын

Days developers sabotaged themselves on purpose so many times, a lesson they didn't really learn in time for 3D, a perfectly good game being completely ruined with its terrible drop system. "Oh it wasn't that ba-" it was toned way down after release. I still remember that interview where they were flat out like "we made the gameplay shit on purpose"

@Starpotion Ай бұрын

Isn't that kinda busted, you'd basically be able to stunlock every enemy for free at all times with no downsides. It's balanced by rewarding you for getting the first hit, and punishing you for not dodging or blocking.