A Look at Baby Doll (BTAS)

[@jeremy1860]

Part of this show's greatest strength, at least as far as the villains is concerned, is how they can make the audience sympathise with them even if we don't condone their actions. Heart of Ice was a great example of this, but this was also a fine instance of us being made to feel sorry for someone doing terrible things 😟

[@Neddyhk]

Heart of Ice was an episode so good it changed every Batman continuity.

[@Vespuchian]

Baby Doll, Scarface, and Mister Freeze cemented this version of Batman as an all-time great for myself and all my friends. That they were able to take villains, even seemingly one-note joke villains, and give them such pathos and inherent dignity that was stripped from them to create such memorable villains is proof of the care the writers and animation staff took in this series. I don't think there's been a better Rogues Gallery in the rest of the franchise.

[@seanwieland9763]

Exactly! These are Classic Greek tragedies, which are also the inspiration for Shakespearean tragedies. The same qualities that make them powerful are also the qualities that become their undoing.

[@KairuHakubi]

And really, kidnapping five people and tying them up and making them live out her fantasy.. not really that bad. Okay she did attempt to murder them at the end, but it kinda seemed like she wasn't running very far from that dynamite herself. All things considered, in Gotham? That's like robbing a gas station.

[@KairuHakubi]

@@Neddyhk That's how we immediately knew The Batman was going to be trash. Very first thing they did was give us a new mr. freeze who is just a onedimensional punk stealing diamonds because lol 'ice' It got better later, but that being the first episode made a pretty strong statement "yeah we know we're following up on legitimate art and all, but Warner is paying us to make you some cheap saturday morning popcorn"

[@alexandrefrauches132]

The final scene between Batman and Baby Doll perfectly represents the reason why Batman has the best rogues gallery in all pop culture: They work as contrast to Batman and his backstory, personal struggles. Most of the villains are victims of tragedy, just like Batman. They work as dark reflection of what he could had become if had taken a different path after losing his parents. Every time Batman fights his enemies, he is fighting his own inner demons and traumas. The fact he choose to show compassion towards his villains, despite everything they done, represents Batman growth from a boy who wanted revenge into more heroic figure, who understant his enemies and wants to help them overcome their traumas and become better people.

[@fictiontheorizer1991]

I love how Bruce treats her like a kid throughout their fight. Even with Gotham's protector, Mary Dahl can't outrun her own image. It's probably one of my favorite episodes of the series for that reason. I wish they had gone back to that well for the follow up, because their chemistry together is just too great to pass up.

[@goteamslugs]

@@fictiontheorizer1991 Indeed.

[@lynngreen7978]

"Don't you know it's rude to make noise while other people exist?" Timely quote.

[@chrisw207]

An episode that has no right to be heartbreaking, yet it is.

[@joshuataylor7443]

How so, give me your more of your thoughts.

[@chrisw207]

@@joshuataylor7443 In short, the episode is a realisitc retake on the old Saturday moring gag of the crook that can pretend to be a baby. That's fine, but what it's been changed to is a minor kidnapping that seems something not to break out the batsignal for. Cut out the last 3 minutes and that's what you get. Something silly and forgettable. Add the symbolism in the final bit and you get gold.

[@joshuataylor7443]

@@chrisw207 Thank.

[@myriadmediamusings]

In a show that has so many standout episodes, Baby Doll is on a whole other level of character, story, emotion, and pathos. Easily worthy to be in a top 10 list, even worthy of Top 5 and possibly the number 1 spot.

[@the-NightStar]

I will never forget the day that I went on the World's Finest website, one of the first large fan websites completely devoted to the DC Animated Universe and saw many of that site's reviews of Batman The Animated series, and how I nearly did a classic cartoon spit-take when I read the review for Baby Doll, which was marked as a 1 star episode and called one of the absolute worst of the entire series. That review just went on to trash the entire episode as being entirely without merit, calling it brainlessly stupid and said it was a horrible episode that offered nothing of value whatsoever. That was the first time I realized that some people on the internet, even if they have a fancy website, even if they claim to be one of the biggest and most dedicated aficionados of a certain series or franchise, even if they seemingly hold a position of authority or that of a general respect among the wider community can have godawful opinions that are ludicrously unfair, and so far off the mark as to be tantamount to lunacy, and that even some people you might expect to know their stuff, can have absolutely no idea what they are even talking about.

[@goteamslugs]

In concurrence I must be. =)

[@stevena488]

I wonder how much the creators were inspired by "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?" When making this episode because it feels SO much like it's in that psycho-drama wheel house. This is ultimately the Batman I like. The one who... Is just the most empathetic person because he lost everything. Batman made that promise as a child that no one would have to suffer the same way that he did, and sometimes.... you can't keep that promise. But you can absolutely be there for the broken, the ones who never meant to hurt anyone and hold them close when their worlds been shattered to pieces and they know they've done wrong. Left in the lingering silence. And there's no judgement. Just understanding. Two shadows caught in the lingering darkness of an uncaring world, and Batman shows why, despite the dark decor he made his identity, he cares. If he didn't, he'd have let Gotham rot.

[@HiroshiMizushima]

Agreed, while I will always love the Adam West Batman for it's light-hearted camp, TAS Batman is the incarnation I appreciate the most. After the weird movies bringing him into the modern times while making him practically neurotic (thanks to the wonderful Michael Keaton), this is the Batman I personally needed to have around, the one that really worked for me among all the other modern versions of the character.

[@TheZetaKai]

Dammit, Chuck! Are you chopping onions in here?! Seriously though, this is a brilliant addition to Batman's rogues gallery, and only an accomplished auteur with a proven track record in the medium would have the clout to dare add to it. Baby Doll is many things: tragic, comedic, bizarre, disturbing... she isn't an obvious foil for Batman, but as Chuck cogently points out, her being trapped in her childhood meshes well with his stolen childhood, and their opposed approaches to their respective traumas.

[@Deepingmind]

This episode, like the Death of Ace, is a powerful point that so often villain is in fact a victim that broke under the suffering they endured. Great for character depth and really shows off why Batman is so well loved by fans.

[@allanolley4874]

For a second I was worried the bat hound had died, then I remembered who you meant that was a sad one. I'm sure the bat hound is just living in a farm up state chasing rabbits...

[@KairuHakubi]

@@allanolley4874 The sweetest thing this franchise ever did was retroactively establishing he named his dog after her.

[@pocketheart1450]

@@KairuHakubi when was that?

[@KairuHakubi]

@@pocketheart1450 Batman Beyond gave us a new version of Ace the Bat-Hound, except in that setting it seems a very odd thing for him to name a dog then Justice League showed us Batman saving the wee girl Ace from herself and staying with her as she died, and now we get it.

[@robertcringle4865]

The most tragic of the Batman villains. This girl deserved better.

[@RedDragonM1]

Trivia time! "Cousin Spunky" is a take on "Cousin Oliver" from "The Brady Bunch" who was played by Robbie Rist. In fact, Robbie played grown-up Spunky in this episode, and was even drawn to resemble him.

[@KasumiKenshirou]

The dad in the sitcom is played by Wilbur from Mr. Ed, and Dahl's henchmen are dressed like Gilligan and The Skipper.

[@DarthSideous63]

Baby Doll is Cindy Brady.

[@KairuHakubi]

@@DarthSideous63 are you suggesting her look and outfit are based on Cindy? because I thought she was more in the Shirley Temple vein. Or are you saying the actress that played Cindy had a hard time after Brady Bunch, because I don't think that's unique enough to _her_ for that to be a specific intention.

[@DarthSideous63]

@@KairuHakubi Baby Doll was modeled as Cindy Brady in the first 3 seasons in The Brady Bunch and The Brady Kids. The most notorious Cindy Brady episode was The Snooperstar where Cindy dressed up as Shirley Temple. Susan Olsen hated the episode.

[@KairuHakubi]

@@DarthSideous63 ahhh hahaha okay then you are probably right. I enjoyed seeing Susan on Space Ghost, showing she's doin ohhhkay.

[@Redrally]

It's funny how this episode hits the same level of pathos no matter how old I am. I saw this episode as a child, a teenager, a student and an adult. It just always hits the same.

[@aaronfletcher8745]

In a show with this many great episodes, this stands out as my favorite, and one of my favorite episodes in the whole DCAU. The episode just has everything that makes BTAS great: a fantastic building, wonderful character work with Batman, incredible voice acting, and some stellar animation. The ending is one of the darkest, and one of the best in the series. The score is also one of my favorites.

[@bradwolf07]

This episode really hits hard, especially at the end. I actually felt sympathy for Baby Doll.

[@trivonnereid8877]

yeah

[@masterkent1]

It's honestly really relatable too. Even tho most of us don't have a condition like hers, I'm sure many of us had the same feeling of becoming the ideal person you strived to be but realized the harsh truth of reality and circumstances.

[@angrybrony]

what a great charater. it's kinda a shame she was never reinvented or brought back for much more then a cameo.

[@eamonndeane587]

Kari Wahlgren would nail the Character as a new voice for her.

[@Jim-cj7pj]

Even as a young kid watching this the ending in the hall of mirrors when she breaks down got to me everytime.

[@sirrliv]

I dunno, the whole "Judo Secretary" thing is kinda working for me. Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "Deadline". As in "Get those expense reports in on time, or Ms. Travers will snap your neck with her thighs."

[@ClanWiE]

Don't threaten me with a good time

[@kaybaumann4989]

The other henchmen where kinda dumb but she was awesome, even kicked Batman’s ass and looked good while doing it. That she was a redhead was just the cherry on top.

[@arlibrarian]

I was always curious about the various thugs that were hired by the bizarre Gotham rogues gallery to help with their weird crimes. All respect for baby doll but that henchwoman was way overqualified for her job. She could have gotten a job with the Penguin at least.

[@birthdefect1186]

this show was a fuckin work of art. this episode was too good for a simple kids show.

[@seanwieland9763]

If you haven’t already seen the official WB/DC documentary on Batman TAS, it’s quite good too.

[@seandonahue5951]

The animated batman is one of the single best representations of the character in media. Paired with his stellar rogues gallery this show could always deliver on the emotion. Side note, can we just appreciate the professionalism of those henchman to not even question the odd situation.

[@TONYGILLEY]

Like with all your great reviews, it made me want to rewatch that episode. I'm surprised you didn't catch the little easter egg in the episode. BabyDoll's henchmen were Gilligan and the Skipper from Gilligan's Island. The Batman Series from 2004 would do the same type of easter eggs. A season 4 episode that had Clayface in it had the diner set from Superman II and the characters from that movie were used as background characters. Christopher Reeve, Margot Kidder, the Bully Trucker, and the Diner workers.

[@Morgil27]

One fun bit of trivia about this episode: The cousin Spunky character would frequently show up in the background in crowds in several other DCAU shows as an Easter Egg.

[@fictiontheorizer1991]

I love this episode. The art style, the character design, the costuming, the story and psychology behind it. Probably among my top ten for the series. Something that no one ever comments on however, is that Batman himself treats Baby Doll like a kid with his reassurances and more gentle handling of her, and that's really interesting to see. Batman is at his best in the way he treats his rouges gallery, but it's almost never not violent in the midst of a fight. So seeing him adapt such a tender attitude towards a villian that he is in the middle of a violent confrontation with is interesting to see. I feel like if they ever brought her back they would almost have to use that chemistry again, there's simply too much to mine there. Of course it's DC, and they were scared of using her before they became creatively bankrupt, but a man can dream.

[@thedigodragon]

This episode really hits, especially at the end. One of the animated series finest. Also, Batman and Robin getting beaten up by a woman in a business suit, rather than some clown in a costume, is on its own level of awesome fight scenes.

[@KairuHakubi]

A nice touch is that the guy who played her brother on the show is ALSO an adult who looks pretty young, because our idea of what old and young look like is so skewed that they always cast shrimpy people as kids (and also that helps if they start growing up as the show continues) and then decades later, Fred Savage still looks like Fred Savage. Also: nobody ever talks about how completely badass and loyal that henchwoman was. who even was she? did we get a name? She was kind of a prototype of Mercy I think. That blank expression and no-nonsense ass-kicking in a pantsuit.. continuing to fight grown men trained in martial arts long after it's pretty obvious her boss has been thwarted..

[@oooh19]

he grew up bc he didnt have her medical condition. also not all kids or adult are the same and every1 ages differently. some ppl look old bc theyre really sick

[@KairuHakubi]

@@oooh19 literally my point, kid.

[@oooh19]

@@KairuHakubi but you'd think being unable to age is a good thing bc as you get older your risk of disease increases

[@KairuHakubi]

@@oooh19 that's almost definitely not how it works though. the maturation process is not tied in any way to senescence. you still get the shitty parts of aging, but without the fun parts of ever getting into your prime in the first place.

[@oooh19]

@@KairuHakubi yea but she cant get breast cancer without breasts or get a period each month and later go through menopause.

[@JYDY-if5rf]

Kiruna Stamell should play Mary Louise Dahl in a live action Batman movie

[@Mordrevious]

This is why the TAS version of Batman beats out so many other versions of the character. TAS Batman gives a shit about people, even if what they do is wrong.

[@MrChupacabra555]

What I loved (and in turn hated) about the eventual follow up to this episode ("Love is a Croc") is that we see that some of the people that go to Arkham Asylum are actually treated for their mental illness, served their time, and released to live 'normal' lives. Unfortunately, in her case, it seems Jokers admonition about "One Bad Day" was right, and she fell right back into her bad ways.

[@alexandrefrauches132]

Actually the problem is not the villains themselves nor the "one bad day" that made them who they are, since many episodes in the series show villains trying to reform and start a new life. The problem is Gotham and it's corruption. Arkham Asylum is just a revolving door which villain can use to escape whenever they want and, whey they return to society, they are mistreat by the people, specially the rich and members of the elite (some of them are even responsible for the birth of villains like Mr Freeze). This just takes away any desire the criminals have to want to reform. Why bother to be part of society if means be just a miserable person living in streets of crime alley and is look down upon but others? In the case of Baby Doll, she tried to reformed in "Love is a Croc" , but was mistreat by people, making fun of her condition. She fall in love with Croc because she thought they were the same, outcasts and was used by the villain in his schemes. She went to him because, in her eyes, no one else understood what she was going through or show sympathy toward her. This is where Batman comes in, acting as contrast to the others in the Gotham, using his identity as vigilante to fightcrime, while, at the same time, using his identity as Bruce Wayne to offer jobs and place for these criminals to live, trying to help them reform and become better people.

[@SageofStars]

It's endings like this that make you miss the one off villains. And lets not be gentle, this WAS supposed to be a one off, there were no plans to bring her back, no grand ideas beyond this one, complete, story. Giving a character an ending, death, or in this case, a realization, is something DC is only now FINALLY rediscovering, after having lost the secret about...I'd say 1982, but feel free to correct me on that. Basically around the time the Teen Titans and X-Men both became the flagships of their respective companies, suddenly no one was allowed to end. That isn't to say recurring bad guys hadn't been a thing. Heck, Joker's death and return was a gag as far back as the 60s, but suddenly, NO villain, NO hero, and even some of the side characters were not allowed to end, unless it was this BIG event, and even then, sometimes they'd come back anyway. Bucky, Jason Todd, hell, briefly that alternate version of Uncle 'Bloody' Ben, just to fuck with Peter some more. But in the last few years, we've had a few one offs. To be fair, mostly in the characters who aren't seen as 'big', but even in the Big Three from DC, there's been a few who just do their evil, get beaten, and we move on. They've even been willing to let a few old hands retire. Whether that will stick or not is anyone's guess, but they're trying, and that makes a difference...BTW, no the MCU doesn't count, with it killing its villains, as few of them have arcs of any kind. Some do, to be fair, but far more are just the problem for the story, and then dead.

[@ZipplyZane]

What I would do is have the henchwoman show up again. You get continuity, but let Dahl's story stay finished. This henchwoman clearly has something to her.

[@SageofStars]

@@ZipplyZane Agreed...The Soulless Business Woman. I mean, since she's already ginger, you lean into it...I'd apologize for that one, but I've seen Chucks Dragon Age reviews.

[@KasumiKenshirou]

Joker actually died and returned in his first appearance.

[@ZipplyZane]

@@KasumiKenshirou First comic, but not first appearance. The comic had more than one story.

[@goteamslugs]

Poor miss Dahl . . You might think her selfish at first, but not once you understand that the limelight represented her security . . She wanted to be seen for who she was, not for her appearance, or what she did. Just like tall people get tired of being remarked at for being so tall. They want to be remembered for who they are as a person. Not their height. I had an interesting thought, ordinary people's skin replicates damaged skin cells from UV rays overtime. Which is why elderly people look and function the way they do. Does hypoplasia merely prevent the body from growing, or does it actually prevent (or help prevent) these genetic mutations? Furthermore, in the horror movie "Orphan", Esther wore fake teeth, which implies that some adult growth features do still grow - such as teeth. Because Baby Doll/Mary Dahl's voice isn't childish when she talks normally, has her body developed puberty? Probably not - her voice just sounds the way it does to signify she's really an adult - it doesn't have to make complete sense. I could be wrong, but her face seems to sag the first time she drops the act and looks depressed. Though this could just be to depict her weariness . . "If everyone thinks you're no more than a no good conniving fox, then you mine as well be something else." - Nick Wylde; "Zootopia"

[@stcj0]

I'm gonna go ahead and just drop the ball and what you'd expect if babydoll had a revamp.... In this series nobody knows yet that the studio executives had been doing experimental drugs on actress Mary Louise dahl because she was so adorable and marketable. Mary was under the impression it was a treatment and didn't know they purposely keep her from aging. She also didn't know that her surgery was underground black market crimes because they were putting the organs of other little girls inside her. She didn't age on the outside but her organs deteriorated on the inside. So when she finally gets out of Arkham she returns to her old estate and finds this out then weaves a plan to get even with Hollywood, Arkham and the Mafia.

[@juststatedtheobvious9633]

It's a good thing this episode was made before IMVU/Second Life/VR chat/etc. I've met way too many people who'd be thrilled to have this curse. Especially if they had a submissive henchperson who was *really* into violent roleplay and let them top from the bottom. Like, I'm trying to take yet another "had a case of the crazies" seriously, but all I can see is a gritty edgelord reboot of Jyoti Amge.

[@DeconvertedMan]

a great episode.

[@GrantM1984]

I'm curious if Chuck will do Love Is A Croc, the follow up episode to this

[@S1nwar]

finally a grownup reviews this episode and not thirty-something-nerdy-critic

[@Kinzokugia]

I wanna see Baby-doll and Calendar Girl team up against scummy agents

[@bthsr7113]

I've heard of this one.

[@RyuuHawke]

One thing to note is the dynamite exploding for real. If it didnt get thrown aside, it would of blew everyone up, including Baby doll herself. So after reliving the good times, her big finale would of been to commit suicide... 😢

[@alexstockwell4349]

Hey, any chance you'll do "See No Evil"?

[@simplegarak]

What if she was dressed in a costume when kicking Batman's ass? What would her title be? Secretary Girl? Personal Assistant?

[@hariman7727]

The Help.

[@alexlemonds2838]

Is Pretty Poison in the cards?

[@scockery]

Why would SF Debris review 80's pop bands?

[@Rocketboy1313]

And somehow this character has not made the jump to any other animated series or into the comics. I get that she is perhaps not the kind of character that you can get a lot of mileage out of, there is just the one story (this one) and after that, like all villains, they just do crimes and you lose all sympathy.

[@garthst.claire3459]

Yeah there's just this one story for her, and from the ending of the episode it also seems like she might be the rare case among Batman's antagonists who could could get better with therapy and medication. She probably won't try the same thing again, and she would have nothing to gain from committing generic crimes (nor does she have any compulsion to do so, like the Riddler has) So what to do with her? Turn her into a side-character?

[@KairuHakubi]

plus this show's art style is unique, in mixing the 90s warner bros style with that retro max fleischer look, in a way that FELT like you were watching a comic book, but without the super high budget that kind of art would take to animate (contrast the 90s marvel animated series which all did more comicbookish art with detailed muscles and .. had mixed results in how neat or sloppy they looked depending on studio. or the old 60s "animated" shows that were mostly stills from the comics) That meant you can make Dahl basically a toon, and it won't look all that weird. If, say, Young Justice had her on, she'd just look like a regular six year old (or a midget?) and you'd be like... this looks way too weird as a villain.

[@cheshirekat3050]

Am I the only one who finds all of the panty-shots of a character who looks about two years old, kind of creepy?

[@InfernosReaper]

I didn't even pay attention to it or put any thought into it.

[@hariman7727]

Eh. It's deliberately as uncreepy as possible.

[@scockery]

This episode seemed too much like someone's fetish turned into a Batman villainess.

[@KairuHakubi]

Yeah pretty much just you. You know, and the rest of your type who have taken over and suppressed all contrary thought.

[@boobah5643]

@@hariman7727 It can be read that that's one of the things Dahl didn't get thanks to her condition.