A Mad Minute with the Dreyse Zündnadelgewehr (Prussian Needle Rifle)

A slightly clumsy Mad Minute, with some “real moments” as the cartridges go rolling happily off my shooting bench in mid-exercise.
A more controlled form of the “Mad Minute” was indeed a feature of Prussian rifle tactics of the 1860s. To preserve ammunition, Prussian officers maintained strict fire control as a rule, but Field Marshal von Moltke’s orders called for maximum firepower to be delivered at the decisive moments. This was aptly called “Schnellfeuer” and authorized the Prussian soldier to load and fire aimed shots as quickly as possible. Such a storm of fire was devastating to Danish columns in the 1864 Schleswig War, and especially to Austrian columns in the 1866 Austro-Prussian War.
I managed to get 7 shots off, in spite of some clumsy moments, which I think would definitely occur in the intense stress and chaos of combat. But imagine a Prussian battalion, each soldier firing 7 rounds a minute. That battalion is pouring out 116 rounds every second. Now imagine a densely-packed attack column, trying to bayonet charge into that.
Anyone really interested in the history and context of this rifle may find my book “The Destroying Angel” useful, as I spend an entire chapter on the Prussians and the Zündnadelgewehr.

[@haramsaddam238]

Not a lot of good footage of the dreyse on KZbin, especially shooting at speed. Very nice.

[@thebotrchap]

I humbly present my footage: kzbin.info/www/bejne/opCsf6ugr7Oigrs

[@MarshallRedmon01]

For a rifle of the 1820s this is extremely advanced for its time

[@kittycatwithinternetaccess2356]

1841

[@theprancingprussian]

The one from 1820s was very early on I think this is an 1830/40s model

[@Roi_de_Rome1811]

*breacholader*

[@ZETAPLUSA70]

If feels like a WW1 era rifle time slipped back to 100 years ago

[@KB-5.Feldartillerie-Regiment]

1848

[@et2878]

Imagine being a musketeer expecting to fight another line of musketeers only to see a wall of guys with these instead 😱

[@Brutian96]

POV: You are a Danish man in 1864

[@CountArtha]

You might not see them at all, since the Dreyse can be used in a prone shooting position.

[@Cibohos]

the austrians definitely didn't enjoy it

[@magni5648]

@@Brutian96Or an Austrian in 1866.

[@MarkJacksonvl-lb6rm]

​@@Brutian96Yeah, I saw it in the film show 1864

[@thebotrchap]

Smooth operation. 7 shots off just like in my mad minute. I timed from first shot but had a pouch to fumble with whereas you had your cartridges prepared so it about evens out.

[@papercartridges6705]

I don’t have my Prussian uniform and pouches here but I will re-shoot this someday in the proper kit. That said, I think 7 rounds a minute is about typical, and effortlessly doubles the rate of fire of even highly practiced muzzleloaders.

[@thebotrchap]

@@papercartridges6705 Absolutely. You should do a mad minute with the Lorenz and paper cartridges to compare.

[@papercartridges6705]

My Lorenz is in the 9+ month Bobby Hoyt queue for relined barrel. The original rifling was bad and pitting ripped the paper cartridges. Once it comes back with proper new, deep four groove rifling, I’ll do another comprehensive Lorenz and Dreyse comparison. I did one a few years ago, but did it backwards, shooting the close range target first, and long range target last, without cleaning. So long range accuracy was practically nil after 60+ rounds through the Dreyse.

[@thebotrchap]

@@papercartridges6705 I doubt the Dreyse will be any different at long range with clean rifling 😆

[@alifr4088]

@@papercartridges6705 what model is that dreyse?

[@leadshark9461]

Always good to see the Dreyse. Can't wait for the Lorenz vs Dreyse remake (if it's still planned).

[@papercartridges6705]

Need a long distance range, and waiting for my Lorenz to come back from Bobby Hoyt with a reline barrel. Oh, and somebody to shoot as the Austrian against me.

[@brittakriep2938]

There is also a replica of Vereinsgewehr used in 1866 by 8th Bundeskorps of German Federation Army, consisting of 30000 soldiers from Württemberg, Baden and Hessen - Darmstadt.

[@Betterhose]

This impressive show of force should deter most Austrians and Frenchmen from harassing you. You've even put enough cartridges on the table in advance to account for the inevitable combat losses (aka those that rolled off the table).

[@papercartridges6705]

They were punished for desertion.

[@scottmccrea1873]

You know, like they do, Frogs and Austrians, just harassing random Germans. Or anyone else who just happens to be carrying a 175 year old main battle rifle. lol

[@AbbieOates]

It would be wonderful if Pedersoli made a replica of these as they are increasingly difficult to get ahold of.

[@superhavi]

I hope Davide reads this!

[@kddreadlord5532]

Yes! I would love to get a replica!

[@MrSonofsonof]

This is what I love about the modern world. I'm reading a novel right now where one of the events is the Battle of Königgrätz (or Hradec Králové as we call it). Thanks to your video I can now see why the Prussians gave the Austrians such a thrashing.

[@capnstewy55]

I love all of the cartridges rolling off of the table, and that he has the same timer music as me.

[@WoofyMcDoodle]

this truly ended the era of Line Formations and static battles. 1 single soldier had now the same kind of firing power as 10 muskets of the napoleonic era. Having 700 men in one firing line aiming this at you must be frightening. 0% survival chance.

[@fortusvictus8297]

not to worry, the same type of soldier was using the firearm, so most were not aiming at all (that would be murder) and battles were not determined by who was left alive after the shooting but rather decided by who lost their nerve and discipline first and ran.

[@magni5648]

Try 2. The gold standard for line infantry rapid fire was 4 shots/minute.

[@HaNsWiDjAjA]

​​@@magni5648From prone its more like 5:1 firepower ratio though. Loading a long barreled rifled musket while lying down was an absolute pain in the ass, you are lucky to accomplish it in forty seconds. And that was one of the breechloader's main advantage.

[@pilotbug6100]

​@@fortusvictus8297I'm sorry... WHAT Remember when rage bait used to be believable

[@fortusvictus8297]

@@pilotbug6100 not my words, there are tons of journals and letters that describe things. Hard to believe, but not everyone who carried a gun in war was trying to shoot everyone. A great majority were conscripts who wanted to survive but also didn't want to damn themselves in the process. Humans are complicated it turns out.

[@Sinaimedve007]

The cartridges rolling off the table also count. That makes at least 15 shots/min 😊. Sarcasm put aside, fantastic video, I learned a lot!!!

[@ivanenfinger9331]

I play a lot of Grand Tactician The Civil War and I always invest in the project to get this weapon to my armies.

[@jphil-mk8bw]

I didnt know it was in that, thanks for telling me lol

[@bigracer3867]

Great to see a video! Thank you for your time. Your MOS is very interesting subject matter.

[@Khannah69]

My ancestor fought in the battle of Königgrätz 1866 where this rifle was used for the first time by Prussians. He served in Austrian light cavalry and survived the battle.

[@elecset3730]

Cavalry guys wrre one of the few who could withdraw the battle succesfuly, lucky You were able to know about him

[@trauko1388]

Finally! Good job, great video. Looking forward to the next one.

[@stevekaczynski3793]

The Prussians devastated Austrian troops who still had muzzle-loading rifles in 1866. I suspect they would have done the same to Union and Confederate troops if they had fought them, as only a minority of the Americans on either side had breech-loading rifles. Most still had muzzle-loaders.

[@ReviveHF]

Actually, the Needle gun is inadequate at long range compared to Rifled Muskets, and prone to cookoff accidents but the Prussians managed negate this problem with tactics and strict discipline.

[@hpbear101]

Enjoyed the video. One of these days I will find a Dreyse to go with my Chassepot.

[@SanitysVoid]

There is one for sale on a web site now.

[@ReviveHF]

Extremely good in the late 1840s but somewhat tricky to implement effectively in 1850s because rifled muskets became so deadly accurate beyond 400m. At one point, the Prussians had considered adopt the rifle muskets or devised new tactics to instruct their troops not to fire until the enemy was close.

[@nomadthecat]

Gods I really want one of these, so neat.

[@rale_p229]

What a gun! 😍

[@megrimlockmesmart.1200]

Well. It seems that those rounds are rolling harder than an Austrian Light Infantryman....

[@bprid135]

That’s fascinating. What a rifle especially for the time.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

I too shoot in the name of science.

[@justin_isaac_rada44]

I wanted that to be a musketoon size and a bit simple enough for mass production in order to give the Levy Infantry/Militia type units cost effective skirmish combatants performing hit and run, and defensive tactics before the main Regular Infantry.

[@VicBryanJr]

I think this is the first to bolt action rifle in the world more than the russians made

[@mohammedcohen]

...you've got a new subscriber...

[@matthiasbreiter4177]

19th Century Europe: every Soldier needs a cartridge loading rifle of some sort. 19th Century US: a musket is fine.

[@magni5648]

Nah, the Prussians were way ahead. Note that the Dreyse got tested by the British 10 years after being adopted by the Prussians... and the Brits promptly declared it too complicated and delicate for field use and adopted the muzzleloading Pattern 1853 Enfield instead.

[@daltonbecker4494]

Hey we did have some lever actions floating around. And that's more advanced than this!

[@ahmadsantoso9712]

I don't know but it was funny to see four of the bullets on the table fall to the ground 😆

[@MrSmithie25]

Imagine the US would have these in the civil war 1861 - 65 ! Maybe the outcome of the war would be totally different.

[@George_E1907]

Where did you get that field cap from.

[@saxon1376]

Is the drums and fifes a prelude to the yorkscher March ? Enjoy the content , thanks

[@papercartridges6705]

It’s in a lot of marches and is called the Lockmarsch. It is played when transitioning from the common step to a parade March. I don’t think there is an Anglo-American equivalent.

[@saxon1376]

Thanks for the info Very helpful

[@AzureRoseMarshal]

⁠@@papercartridges6705I believe the 6 drum beats common in British marches is some sort of equivalent.

[@navigator3]

If anyone can answer this question: Where is the primer? inside the paper wad ?

[@kazmiirtiza3934]

Prussia would have been a super power and would easily had defeated la grande armee of Napoleon

[@MrSeekerOfPeace]

I think... I need this, they're legal in Canada.

[@moutan100]

the British test it and didn't like it and went to Crimean war with muskets instead hehe.

[@derpycat9347]

lol the bullets are falling

[@dalemoss4684]

A bolt-action, caseless ammo rifle in the 1840s. That is impressive technology for that period.

[@edelweiss-]

Johann Nikolaus von Dreyse revolutionised weapons technology

[@tomyzar]

19th century g11

[@karsonbranham3900]

Good form!!

[@idsfxtm5759]

Well,the Prussian uses this gun in Austro Prussian war 1866 while the Asutrian still use Musket at that time

[@mladenkrsmanovic5814]

What is the recoil of these rifles and others like springfiled 1861 model?

[@papercartridges6705]

Less than a 61 Springfield. Lighter bullet. The Dreyse is also a much heavier rifle.

[@SoulKiller7Eternal]

Im curious...are those paper cartridges?

[@papercartridges6705]

Yes, it’s a paper cartridge and it is totally consumed when it fires. No case to extract.

[@normanbowstead3616]

Science can be a good thing!

[@schizoidboy]

It was certainly an improvement on firearms at the time when most armies, including the Austrian Army, were still using muzzle loaders which could at best fire three rounds a minute.

[@aliennathan6089]

POV: you mix a bolt action rifle with a musket

[@Louderboy.]

Americans didn't use this weapon in their civil war

[@papercartridges6705]

I have a video coming up, that I am working on, which addresses exactly that point. Why didn’t the Americans use the needle gun in the Civil War?

[@benrobertson7855]

Now this isn’t good enough! It’s my birthday and I want a whitworth vid…. Thanks anyway.

[@Skenderbeuismyhero]

Caseless rounds are actually a very old idea. Look up dreyse pin rifles

[@reaper2579]

If only the American union uses this during the civil war

[@Mauser-ri6rb]

what happened if the cartridge failed? was it removable? It seems fragile to me, since it's made of paper, a more impolite handling can break it, right?

[@aaronz.5093]

Yes, you can push a failed cartridge out from the muzzle using the ramrod ("Entladestock"=unloading rod). And yes, you can damage the cartridge, but damage almost never occurs if you handle it properly (grab it by the sabot, push it home by hand rather than by the bolt).

[@daltonbecker4494]

​​@@aaronz.5093Plus I feel like this is a tougher kind of paper than the kind you would use to write on correct?

[@aaronz.5093]

@@daltonbecker4494There are many different paper types in use, but you're right, one usually uses paper that is not torn so easily. A lot of stability comes from binding the cartridge above the bullet which makes it much stiffer than one thinks by the looks of it.

[@shamrock5725]

is he actually shooting rounds out or just blanks in each charge?

[@justinthebeau2590]

The hall rifle was invented shortly before this

[@reynaldoflores4522]

Now THAT'S soldiering!

[@richardkenzoterrado5274]

0:56 The bullet rolled and made an escape!

[@308reloader5]

shotgun 4 buck ball bearings and bbs into 3 vw hubcaps kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5WZmH6gq9p2o7M

[@John-oc8dg]

the first bolt action rifle

[@pieterverhaeghe5143]

Grand tactician the civil war has this gun shooting at an average rate of 6 rounds per minute, whereas a experienced brigade ingame might pull of 9 rounds per minute, i presume thats fairly realistic for battles for what regards green troops on the one hand and veterans on the other hand. With a max range of 400 yards, and not being the most precise at that distance in comparison to say a Sharps rifle

[@fortusvictus8297]

Both the weapon and the ammunition for this pattern needle gun were far cheaper and easier to produce than the sharps. The sharps were ahead of their time as far as firearm technology goes but also ahead of where doctrine and military budgets could support.

[@AcaNik1973]

Great video!

[@thomascropper3791]

Quick for its time

[@TheTimbs_]

How strong is this thing?

[@ก็มาดิครับ-ผ3ฏ]

Hall rifle 1819

[@DeanDavis-i6q]

Why weren’t these used in the American Civil War?

[@papercartridges6705]

That sounds like a great topic for a future video!

[@DeanDavis-i6q]

@@papercartridges6705 I had no idea these existed until today. Please make the video!

[@magni5648]

Early production was very small scale and the Prussians didn't really export any of them until the mid-1860's. Romania in 1867 was the first large export deal, buying ~30,000 of 'em, and the Japanese bought a bunch during the Boshin War as well as more surplus ones after, as did the Chinese in the 1870's.

[@DeanDavis-i6q]

@@magni5648 that’s fascinating, thank you

[@mickeyholding7970]

Is your Dreyse an original? I don't think anyone reproduces them.

[@papercartridges6705]

Yes it’s an original with a decent bore. There are some European reproductions but I believe they are smoothbore.

[@aceofhearts573]

Did the Austrians know about this rifle or was it a secret? I read that they still used mine ball muskets during their war against Prussia and paid dearly

[@papercartridges6705]

They knew, and had an excellent rifle of their own (Lorenz) that had a slower rate of fire but much longer range and much more accurate. Unfortunately for the Austrians, they focused on bayonet shock tactics rather than training the army in rifle shooting.

[@mayosmayo4738]

I’m bothered about the death joints rolling off the table

[@papercartridges6705]

Yes especially when they take about 10 minutes apiece to make, and they bust apart when they hit the ground.

[@badfoody]

can you imagine being the unlucky Austrian who had to fight the Prussians armed with this

[@brittakriep2938]

There are also the lesser known fights between Prussian , Mainarmee' ( River Main Army) and troops from Bavaria, Württemberg, Baden and Hessen- Darmstadt. Combined this would have been a 60000 men force, but every army ( Bavaria 30000, Württemberg 13600, Baden 10000 and Hessen - Darmstadt 6400 men) tried to defend their countries alone. So with exeption of Bavaria, the southern states stopped war after a single defeat in a Gefecht ( larger than a skirmish, but lesser than a real battle). But soldiers of south states had been lesser trained. And there was Gefecht at Langensalza between prussian troops and hannoverian Army. Hannoverian Army tried to reach their austrian allies territory by breaking through the thuringian states, allies of Prussia. They hoped, that they can beat the small ,armies' of thuringian , Operetta States' before prussian troops arrived, but prussian troops came very fast. No side won Gefecht of Langensalza, but the next day hannoverian troops surrendered, because their ammunition was nearly run out. War of 1866 was for Austria a Victory at italian front, including naval (!) victory at Lissa, but Italy was prussian Ally, so Austria here lost territory.

[@jackwhite6513]

did the British army also have this rifle as one of its first "proper rifles"

[@magni5648]

LMAO, no. They tested it in 1851 (so ten years after Prussia started adopting them) and declared it "too complicated and delicate for general service", then two years later adopted the muzzleloading Enfield Pattern 1853 rifled musket.

[@davidgruen7423]

Mad minute with a table

[@papercartridges6705]

An evil slanted table.

[@henryofskalitz2228]

It was a fun day shooting with ya

[@papercartridges6705]

You could have given me an extra second on the timer to get that 8th shot off… haha

[@SanitysVoid]

Where can I get a mold for the bullets?

[@papercartridges6705]

I bought mine from Old West bullet molds.

[@SanitysVoid]

@@papercartridges6705 are you shooting an original or a repropduction? Does the needle need to be replaced every 60 shots? Does your chamber seal wear out?

[@SanitysVoid]

@@papercartridges6705 PS I wrote them and no reply.

[@wildrangeringreen]

@@SanitysVoid we have vulcanized rubber and even better materials now (like various forms of Neoprene), so the service life of the gasket will be much better. It will need replaced eventually, abrasion against the breech during loading and being compressed by the bolt head will wear on it over time (like seals in an air rifle or bicycle pump). As far as bullets are concerned, have a look at Accurate Molds 52-490B, and have him adjust the dimensions as needed.

[@SanitysVoid]

@@wildrangeringreen I have a bullet mold but my gun is laking the conversion. Id have tpo pay a gun smith to do that and it would cost an arm and a leg. :(

[@Afro408]

“More shooting has to be done” What an onerous task! 😂👍👏👏🥃🥃

[@papercartridges6705]

The endless pursuit of Science.

[@TheDave570]

Pa. is not like CA, no desert to roam around in , Ha Ha