A Malazan Collaboration of Ascendant Proportions | Tips for Malazan Beginners (No Spoilers)

Drop what you're doing right now and go subscribe to these AMAZING Creators RIGHT NOW! If each of these channels doesn't have more subs than me within 1 week of posting this video, something is seriously wrong because we're unveiling an EPIC Malazan collaboration featuring @Philip Chase , @Andy Smith , and moderated by @The Library of Allenxandria ! We discuss all things Malazan, what to expect, how we feel about the hype, and why YOU should dive in!
Andy Smith: / @andysmithmn
Library of Allenxandria: / @thelibraryofallenxandria
Philip Chase: / @philipchasethebestoff...
I'm embarrassed to even share the stage with these fine creators who have really stepped up the game for booktube and I'm personally a humongous fan of them all! Seriously, open 3 new tabs right now and click subscribe!
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►►► CONNECT WITH ISKAR JARAK ◄◄◄
►Discord: / discord
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►►► SUPPORT ISKAR JARAK ◄◄◄
►Merch: bit.ly/2ysvJ8j
►Patreon: / iskarjarak
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►►► MALAZAN BOOKS ◄◄◄
►Main Series◄
►Malazan Book of the Fallen amzn.to/36bNQKV
►Novels of the Malazan Empire amzn.to/2Yp0yDr
►Kharkanas Trilogy◄
►Forge of Darkness (Book 1) amzn.to/2LuMhQs
►Fall of Light (Book 2) amzn.to/2RsIB5j
►Walk in Shadow (Book 3) On Hold
►Path to Ascendancy◄
Dancer's Lament (Book 1) amzn.to/2OUTgUN
Deadhouse Landing (Book 2) amzn.to/3639vF8
Kellanved’s Reach (Book 3) amzn.to/2qrYwWw
The Jhistal (Book 4) amzn.to/3ciazZA
►Witness Trilogy◄
►The God is Not Willing (Book 1) amzn.to/2TeABW8
►TBD (Book 2) Unknown
►TBD (Book 3) Unknown
►The Tales of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach (novellas)◄
►Blood Follows (2002) amzn.to/38eGRml
►The Healthy Dead (2004) amzn.to/38eGRml
►The Lees of Laughter's End (2007) amzn.to/38eGRml
►Crack'd Pot Trail (2009) amzn.to/2Lw5Jfu
►The Wurms of Blearmouth (2012) amzn.to/2PoBYOK
►The Fiends of Nightmaria (2016) amzn.to/2s0xmqe
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►►►MY SUGGESTED READING ORDER◄◄◄
►1. Gardens of the Moon
►2. Memories of Ice
►3. Deadhouse Gates
►4. House of Chains
►5. Midnight Tides
►6. The Bonehunters
►7. Reaper's Gale
►8. Toll the Hounds
►9. Dust of Dreams
►10. The Crippled God
►11. Night of Knives
►12. Return of the Crimson Guard
►13. Stonewielder
►14. Orb Sceptre Throne
►15. Blood and Bone
►16. Assail
►17. Forge of Darkness
►18. Fall of Light
►19. Walk in Shadow (Forthcoming)
►20. Dancer’s Lament
►21. Deadhouse Landing
►22. Kellanved's Reach
►23. The Jhistal (Forthcoming)
►24. The Tales of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach, Volume 1
►25. The Tales of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach, Volume 2
►26. The God is Not Willing (Forthcoming)
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►►►SERIES CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER◄◄◄
►1. Forge of Darkness
►2. Fall of Light
►3. Walk in Shadow
►4. Dancer’s Lament
►5. Deadhouse Landing
►6. Kellanved's Reach
►7. The Jhistal
►8. Midnight Tides
►9. Night of Knives
►10. Gardens of the Moon
►11. Deadhouse Gates
►12. Memories of Ice
►13. House of Chains
►14. The Bonehunters
►15. The Tales of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach, Volume 1
►16. Reaper's Gale
►17. Return of the Crimson Guard
►18. Toll the Hounds
►19. Dust of Dreams
►20. Stonewielder
►21. The Crippled God
►22. Orb Sceptre Throne
►23. Blood and Bone
►24. Assail
►25. The God is Not Willing
►26. The Tales of Bauchelain and Korbal Broach, Volume 2

[@stevelundin5705]

Erikson here. Thanks guys for a fascinating and informative (and enlightening) conversation. One of the most dangerous grounds for an author to venture onto is the realm of reader reaction, reviews, critiques and the like. The creative process is a vulnerable one and its defences are flimsy, while at the same time the readership out there imagines the author as above all that, even immune to all shots fired their way. Not so. We can get cut off at the knees at any time, which is why the most common and probably healthiest response is for authors to close their eyes, stopper their ears, and stay as far away as possible. For me, at least, the core desire that drives me to write is the desire to communicate and in doing so to open up the notion of something shared: not just the story itself, but the emotions bound within it. In essence, it's an invitation to share in the human condition, and that is a very risky endeavour. I suspect that this side of things is very rarely admitted to, from the author's perspective. It's akin to stepping out into the gladiator's ring, meaning one needs to be fully kitted out in armour, and well-armed besides. I am always open to critical arguments against the stuff I've written and I don't have any problem with those who don't like my work or parts of my work. But get to the technical side of things and to assert that I'm incompetent in that area, well, that gets my back up and I freely admit it. I'm a fan of hockey and in particular the Winnipeg Jets (I know, poor me). There's a player on the team named Scheifele and the word on him is that he's a fanatic on all things hockey -- he lives and breathes it, day in day out. In fact, he's obsessed with the game. Well, I'm the same way with the process of writing and the structure and techniques of narrative fiction. It's my only armour, to be honest, my only defence, and that's the hill I'm prepared to die on. That said, I've never written down to readers and never will: I assume a meeting of equals. It's discouraging to be considered prickly on the basis of my various essays. From my side of things, occasionally I find myself dragged out into the centre of the arena, usually by being on the receiving end of one dismissal too many, or perhaps triggered by a tone real or imagined, and at that time I gird up and draw the sword. It's rare, and no doubt many of my colleagues would (and have) advise(d) that I keep silent. But sometimes I relent, because, I suppose, I'm as human as anyone else. Anyway, I really enjoyed listening to all of you and I'd be happy to chat with all four of you in some future podcast (oh, and it might be nice to have some women join the group -- there are a few here on KZbin who are reading and discussing my books). Cheers. SE

[@IskarJarak]

Thank you so much for this comment!! I’m so grateful for your participation in the conversation around the books and I never view it as prickly and even regret couching it as defensive, when I really value your essays and other interactions as explanatory. You treat us like grown ups and give us the space to make our own conclusions while also not divorcing yourself from the conversation or the intent of the work. I enjoy the books as stories but even more so for the journey you lead us on and giving us that sneak peak into your own exploration of these topics. One day, everyone is going to appreciate that and hopefully this is one tiny step forward in getting MBotF where it belongs!! 🙏❤️🙌

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks so much, Steve, for your comments and for your willingness to engage with your readers! That is something I admire, especially as even starting a KZbin channel on fantasy has given me a small taste of how vulnerable it can feel to put one’s thoughts and work into the public sphere. And thanks too for giving us such a rich and justly celebrated series. Excellent point about including some women in our next conversation, and certainly in keeping with the spirit of the Malazan world. Thanks so much for watching!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful comment and for the vulnerability to tell us how things can seem coming from the side of constant criticism of one's work. Thanks for watching and interacting with us. Very cool. Thanks also for Coltaine who remains my hero.

[@theriddler2277]

fyi, some of us have a very hard time understanding how people can view you as 'prickly' or w/e - every interview and panel i've seen/heard you in you've always come across as very well spoken and caring about your craft. also - get someone to talk to the game company Creative Assembly(CA) - we WANT a total war: malazan game... really really really badly. the total war series is *the* perfect game for malazan. keep being you, you're great at it. kind regards from something like the 10th reread... it still gets better every time.

[@feral7523]

Keep doing what your doing Steve as its by far the most compelling and addictive series on the planet,confusing sometimes and wildly elaborate sure but that just makes it more tantalizing and challenging and I like that.

[@mikesbookreviews]

I hope to be a part of this posse someday.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

The Malazan read along on your channel next year is going to be epic, Mike! One of the things I’m most looking forward to in 2021!

[@IskarJarak]

You’re already an honorary member! Can’t wait to see what you think next year. Gonna be 🔥

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Heck yes

[@billyalarie929]

This would be so great.

[@tjnaz]

I came here thinking that you were. Hope to see you with these other tubers. Glad to see Philip here. :)

[@darkchill34]

Just to say, Toll the Hounds might be your least favourite on a first read, but I lay money on it becoming one of your favourites on the second and subsequent reads. Same with the Snake storyline, too. Actually, the more you read them, the more EVERYTHING becomes important, as each storyline strengthens the whole.

[@IskarJarak]

K’rul approves of this message and I do too!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Well said! I’m hoping to catch so much more on my reread of the series, which I’m beginning at the end of the year.

[@svendragon8139]

Weird, it was instantly top 3 for me

[@Geo07ism]

This was so godly that you accidentally summoned Erikson himself. I watched this yesterday night in a time during which I normally sleep, and not only did I not fall asleep but I was also saddened to notice the timer reaching the end. You four have great chemistry together and you all have something different to bring to the table. You too sarge, I hope you don't feel like the odd one out because you don't use fancy words. You have the largest beard so obviously that makes you the wisest of the bunch. This is the start of something great 🍻

[@IskarJarak]

Thank you so much--I'm so glad you enjoyed. When the Old Guard of the Unabridged Burners approves, then we know we've done something right! I hope we can have more candid and off the cuff conversations about stuff going forward!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Well said! Especially about Iskar’s beard!

[@mr.natural1299]

I’m not sure I’ve ever read anything quite as fascinating as the Malazan Book of the Fallen. I’m 55 and I’ve read probably at least an average of one book per week every week of my life...including a lot of challenging literature and non-fiction. This series has added meaning to my life.

[@IskarJarak]

Amen 🙏❤️🙌

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Beautifully said! It’s hard to find another series that has such an impact on its fans.

[@Johanna_reads]

The Malazan dream team! Malazan videos on BookTube were practically non-existent when I started Gardens of the Moon last year. The content on all of your channels has made me more and more excited to continue the series. As someone who is very new to Malazan (currently just past the halfway point of Memories of Ice), I find the prose not difficult to read, the characters are distinct (even though there are a ton of them!), and the battle scenes are some of the most intense I've ever read. Erikson is a master of "show don't tell" and the atmosphere is palpable. Here are a few things I think make this series challenging. First is the amount of faith or surrender required to keep going when you don't understand every detail. In moments when things do come together-and perhaps somethings never will-it is very satisfying. For me, reading these books sometimes feels like a meditative process of just being present with what's happening, as Andy suggested. Another challenge is that the this is a very gloomy, dark world! Harsh landscapes, dark realms, possessed characters, temperamental gods, death, gore, grief, rape, separation, nothing is comfortable in this world. The last thing that challenges me is that I am currently 551 pages into Memories of Ice, and I feel like I could go back to page 1 and almost be reading a different story. In fact the second I finished Gardens of the Moon, I wanted to go back and reread it. I have never read any series with so much reread value! These challenges are all positives for me though-at this point-I definitely need breaks between books. A question for the dream team: at what point should readers be noticing the overarching theme of compassion? I've seen glimpses, but not enough to where I would say that's what these books are about. This was amazing!

[@IskarJarak]

It’s a good question. It’s something notice on reflection after finishing the whole series. Definitely not something I picked up on midway through MoI. The empathy piece he’s cultivating early on with Felisin and Toc and Stormy and Gesler and that Tlan Imass dude, Legana Breed, who seals the rent of the Nascent in DG. Glad you are enjoying the videos, and I feel very lucky to have been included in this discussion! Hope we get to do a lot more in the future!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Finish MoI and you'll see where I first encountered that theme.

[@Johanna_reads]

@@IskarJarak I loved your contribution to the discussion! Thank you for reading and answering my question. This was one of the best collaborations I've ever seen on BookTube!

[@Johanna_reads]

@@TheLibraryofAllenxandria I will! I'm excited to watch the rest of your MoI review once I finish!

[@IskarJarak]

@@Johanna_reads thank you so much for watching and for the positive feedback. So glad you enjoyed!!

[@EricMcLuen]

That was well worth the wait. Eagerly anticipating the follow up. I think Erickson just got fed up with people claiming he is a bad if not incompetent writer. Which his response has consistently been he wrote exactly what and how he wanted to write it. And then it seems disingenuous for those critics to then claim he is calling them dumb. I haven't watched, yet, the 10 book bids but Daniel Greens interview was well done where they are just chatting. He was initially critical but seems to have joined the Dark Side after Bonehunters. Yes the violence is rough to read but it is done with great empathy and with a point. It just isn't there for shock value. A lot of what he talks about happens in the real world which is why it is so tough but for some reason reading about it in a fantasy book makes it hit harder. But for style, and I think Allen alludes to this, is that he writes.more like a History Channel episode. You don't know how it will end or where it is going. You aren't waiting 1500 pages for Frodo to destroy the ring that you knew was going to happen by page 25. You don't start with a hero backstory followed by Big Baddie introduction and then you wait for the final battle. Thinking about this more the series is a heroes quest, and to paraphrase Aristotle, that does not end as it is the quest that is the important thing. From this perspective the 'hero' could be seen as humanity itself.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

I agree with you about the Daniel Greene interview -- good questions and a quality discussion. Yes, Erikson doesn't conform to the typical hero's journey in his narrative. That's not what he's writing about, and the place where he puts his characters is actually more true to life than you'll see in most fiction. Thanks for watching!

[@miuyiyuyo]

I love the personality of steven erikson because he is like a tough nerd who does not give a fck about what other ppl think he just is, thats the whole reason of why i started the searies, specially this days that ppl are too sensitive about everithing, violence exist in the world, i get this is fantasy, but cmon man its not fantasy for children..

[@IskarJarak]

Haha 🙏

[@SJ-GodofGnomes21]

Spot on

[@zan8152]

Andy's take about "Just keep going... if you get to a chapter and don't know who it is... just keep going, momentum is key." - Is hands down the best advice for any Malazan reader. New ones especially, but probably even veterans. It's amazing how often something that was hazy, weird, confusing, or bizarre gets illuminated just a couple of chapters down the road, and getting into this state where you need to understand things *Now* is just going to stop you cold. Honestly, I think so much of the challenge of getting into the series isn't really the world - there's a lot, yeah, but like. Are Warrens *that* weird? Is the army structure *that* abnormal? The really, really hard part is just coming to terms with the way and style Erickson's chosen to tell the story. You *have* to get comfortable with ambiguity. But as soon as you do, it just all kinda flows from there.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Very well said about getting comfortable with ambiguity! And thanks for watching!

[@StefanDimitrovBG]

That was probably the best one hour I spend on KZbin ever. I loved it, loved it, loved it!!! Can't wait for the spoiler discussion.

[@IskarJarak]

That’s awesome to hear because it was a lot of fun to record and I’m really looking forward to future discussions!

[@StefanDimitrovBG]

@@IskarJarak BTW I love and follow Andy but the other two people are new for me so thanks for introducing us to more Malazan fans here on youtube.

[@IskarJarak]

Excellent! I’ll be highly surprised if they don’t end up with more subs than me, which is exactly how it should be-quality stuff!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks for watching- it was definitely one of the most satisfying discussions I’ve had on anything book related!

[@OneMoreMeme_INeedYou]

Now this is a convergence I can get behind. Didn’t imagine Malazan content like this would be possible a year ago, so I’m really proud of you guys for representing it so well. Really thoughtful discussion, love you all!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks so much for watching and for the kind words!

[@tragikk03]

I think I'm a rare breed.. I have never read fantasy(similar to Iskar, I'm diving into fantasy at 30); I started GotM yesterday and I can't put it down. I dont find it hard or confusing at all but I have previously read a lot of mystery and thrillers. I care way more about the journey and how the author writes. I can't describe how happy I am that I ignored everyone telling me not to start Malazan as my first fantasy series. I dont understand why so many people make such a fuss about it.. the negative publicity and the "difficulty" (which I think is more a result of the reader and their demand to know rather than the books themselves) are what really made me want to read it and prove everyone wrong (or perhaps my mistrust of other's opinions on what is "too difficult") I found the first 50 pages of GotM freaking awesome.

[@IskarJarak]

It’s not for everyone, but for some like us, it hooks you immediately!

[@Karma7711]

I absolutely love it when people are a full on nerd about something (for lack of a better term). So many people don't really care about much.

[@TokyoBlue587]

I agree! It’s sad that a lot of people I know don’t even read books, or think I’m weird for reading as much as I do.

[@alecolson8360]

Wow I've never seen someone nail the issues I have with Malazan in such a detailed and nuanced way as Allenxandria, his questions really brought a lot of discussion to the table

[@IskarJarak]

🙌 I’m telling you.... go sub right now!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Allen did an excellent job of being the “foil” and brought some fantastic questions. The best questions are probably more important than the right answers, so I’d say Allen really made this work.

[@alecolson8360]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy such a good way of looking at it! I loved the answers too though. I felt like the most important one was 'no matter what he writes, it's intentional'

[@IskarJarak]

Agreed! He’s the lynchpin! So grateful for his honest questions. Totally fair and reasonable and made for a really fun conversation!!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

This was a freaking blast

[@gabrielgurmail-kaufmann4803]

Adding on to that bit about The Snake: it ends up being one of the best moments on a reread

[@IskarJarak]

🙌❤️🙏

[@gabrielgurmail-kaufmann4803]

@@IskarJarak also this was top quality so thanks I've been looking for something like this for ages.

[@IskarJarak]

@@gabrielgurmail-kaufmann4803 very cool! Hope to have more and keep the conversation going. I even floated the idea of doing a Malazancon next year with a bunch of the Malazan creators out there!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

I completely agree about The Snake - one of the most underrated aspects of the series. Thanks for watching!

[@CHPearsonify]

I think about the snake randomly and always end up crying! Held and Rut 😭

[@marcweber8509]

As cagey as the series can be, it just hit all the right spots for me and I was 100% in from page one. It's my favorite fantasy series ever. But it's rare, that everything aligns instantly like that. Some of my other favorites I had to put in some work first, before it clicked.

[@IskarJarak]

I liked this one off the bat too!

[@tuffguy0134]

I'm on my first reading. Currently three quarters done with The Bonehunters. It has quickly become my favorite series. This video was great to watch and I love all your guys' channels.

[@donaldcreech7782]

I'm 80 pages into the first book and am ready for an epic journey!!

[@IskarJarak]

It’s a lot of fun!!

[@anubistv1154]

Kruppe is amazing, probably the most genius level dialogue besides Tehol and Bugg. Fiddler is the sole link between the Bridgeburners and the Bonehunters I like how Erikson handled the sexism thing a lot. Women and children are still “weaker” than men generally speaking, and can be preyed upon more easily, which is realistic as per biology (in general). But, true to Table-Top RPG fashion, women (or children like Badalle or Grub) can become some of the strongest characters

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Well said on all of the above, especially Erikson’s handling of female characters!

[@JohanHerrenberg]

Excellent discussion! Many thanks! About to finish House of Chains, and determined to forge ahead.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks for watching! I hope you're enjoying the series!

[@JohanHerrenberg]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I certainly am!

[@xWursty]

Amazing video. I love all the differing perspectives. And the fact that malazan is getting more screen time on youtube. Can't wait for the next one!

[@IskarJarak]

It’s an amazing time to be a Malazan fan!!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

It’s a great time for Malazan fans on KZbin!

[@meghanjackson7494]

Really great conversation here, even though I came across it months after the fact. I’ve had these books on my shelf unread for a while - I think it’s time to dive in! Thanks for the thought-provoking discussion.

[@TheNerdyNarrative]

This has been really interesting. I'm planning to start Malazan in January and I appreciate the honesty with each of your viewpoints and opinions. :) I'm Southern, so I support Allen and Andy's pronunciations..lol

[@IskarJarak]

Haha! Those are going to remain a topic of much debate and I reserve the right to continue to get them wrong! 🤪 hope you’ll enjoy the series when you dive in!! Stop by and let us know how it goes.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks for watching! A lot of folks will be starting Malazan in January because of the read along at Mike’s Book Reviews. Whichever pronunciations they use, it’s a great time for Malazan fans on BookTube!

[@Johanna_reads]

Lezlie, I laughed out loud when I read your pronunciation comment! 😂 So excited to hear your thoughts on this series! I might join in Mike's buddy read on book 4 (if I don't get to it before then).

[@robpaul7544]

This was a lot of fun to watch and listen to , thanks guys! I love your enthusiasm for the series and your efforts to spread the word. Best advice I think was Andy's to pick up the first three books of the Main 10, and just read them. Don't get bogged down on the who's who and what's what, just read them. After reading those anyone will have a pretty clear idea wether they want/need to continue on - and chances are you will have found one of your favorites of the series among them. Keep up the good work 🤓 Oh and Hood's balls, some of you need to get on Erikson's book Rejoice - I want to hear all y'alls thoughts on that!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks for watching, Rob! I’ll have to add Rejoice to my completely out of control TBR.

[@IskarJarak]

Glad that you enjoyed Rob!!

[@namrevo84]

Nice to see Gloomhaven (and other boardgames) in the background. Talking about epic proportions!

[@rujoolpatil1227]

Andy is right the later game of thrones books are awesome. A Dance with Dragons is my second favourite in the series.

[@IskarJarak]

Andy is right about most things, I’m finding!! I’m a big ASoIaF fan too-if not for those, I’d never have found out about Malazan!

[@rujoolpatil1227]

Excited to take on the series next year

[@Johanna_reads]

I'm glad Andy said that too! Yes book 3 was probably the best, but I loved every ASOIAF book. I didn't lose any interest after A Storm of Swords.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

I love all the books in ASOIAF! I just wish there were more... But I’m one of those crazy optimists who believe Martin will at least finish Winds of Winter.

[@rujoolpatil1227]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy same Philip. A dream of spring isn’t coming out but I’m at least hoping for Winds of Winter.

[@otis7847]

Fiddler disappeared for a bit, but that Strings guy was pretty great.

[@nyxian_grid]

It's interesting that apparently Gardens of the Moon is considered not the best, but I loved it! I thought it was better than the second one, Deadhouse Gates (I haven't read any more yet). I actually think Deadhouse Gates is a lot more difficult to get through.

[@MN-wg8qd]

Right on. I read the first 7 and started re-reading from scratch. I really enjoy GoTM and it makes much more sense than DG other than the ending. Even as a first time reader.

[@CHPearsonify]

So good! I love that there is somewhere that I can hear about Malazan as NOONE I know has read it! Looks like I need to start my 2nd reread! Can’t wait for the Karsa series!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Same here about the Karsa trilogy, though I’ve heard Erikson say that Karsa won’t really appear until late in book 2. I’m starting my first Malazan reread soon!

[@shawngillogly6873]

None of you can get Fiddler right even. You split the Ds. So it's Fid'-Dler. :) Seriously though, thanks to you all for sharing, and being the evangelists for the series it deserves. I think a lot of the fan base over the years has fed into the polarizing of the series. Where people don't get it, and instead of helping them understand that they should approach it as a history w/ strong lit fic sensibilities, we just shrugged and said, "Oh well. It's not for everyone." And we were content to be elitist about it. It bothered me when people said Erickson couldn't write characters. Because I entering middle age manhood at the time, wept when I read the end of Memories of Ice. And again at the end of Bonehunters. That isn't the mark of bad character writing. I felt the losses of the Chain of Dogs and the Bridgeburners much harder than the Red Wedding, (not to bash an easy target. But to make the point w/ a commonly cited "superior" event). Erickson makes you work to get to know his characters. The flip side of that is when you do, you have intense feelings for them. Whether strong (in my case, Whiskeyjack, Quick Ben, Kalam, Apsalar, Ganoes, Fiddler, and Rake), or against (the guy I won't mention who took Whiskeyjack from us), Felisin, and the Empress.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Beautifully said about the characters, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Thanks so much for watching!

[@TokyoBlue587]

You do realize that this video was for beginners of the series, and you just dropped a MASSIVE spoiler.

[@anangryscorpion5838]

This was so great, love all four of you guys. Keeping my eyes peeled for that spoiler chat at some point!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks, Ryan!

[@alexkonoff2273]

Perfect timing I started GoTM yesterday

[@IskarJarak]

Awesome! We have the whole first two booked covered chapter by chapter as well!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

I hope you enjoy it!

[@TheCarygephart]

What’s with all the Krupp hate Allen? Krupp is the man!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Ugh, I hate him! The only one I hate worse is Pust!

[@nunchucks007]

@@TheLibraryofAllenxandria I hated them both on my first read too. I kind of liked them on my second. They are pretty funny. Pust with his narration of the inner monologue and Kruppe being Kruppe.

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

@@nunchucks007 I get that. I definitely disliked them the most on my first encounter with them. By TtH, I ALMOST stopped disliking them.

[@pa1nted]

this bearded glassesd snack tellin all my hearts deep thoughts

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks for watching!

[@TokyoBlue587]

Snack! LOL!

[@TheLiteraryApothecary]

I think being able to separate the artist from the art is such an underestimated reading skill. More people need to learn how to do this. I'm still new to Fantasy really - but this video has made me so excited to read Malazan once I get my feet more wet in the Fantasy world.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

That’s a valid point about the art versus the artist. For example, I’ve chosen to keep referring to Harry Potter as an important series for the development of fantasy (especially YA) even though I’m less than thrilled with Rowling’s recent Twitter battles. Thanks for watching!

[@TheLiteraryApothecary]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy i feel the same way about HP. I don't agree with her comments but I can't ignore the influence its had on myself and so many others. I also was a huge Hemingway fan at one point and if you know anything about him - you know he was not even close to a good guy. Thanks for responding 😀

[@JLchevz]

I'm so glad I started reading Malazan, I watched a video of yours and since Mike started his readalong I decided to give it a shot (I'm a slow reader) and I've been having a complete blast, the writing is amazing and the world is just insane, I love it.

[@PaigeTheFramer]

I'm so glad I found your channel! I'm excited to learn more of Malazan. Thanks so much!

[@SnakeAndTurtleQigong]

My favorite video so far!! Thanks SE and ICE for taking a chance on this journey, and then walking it part of the way with us. 😊 Any chance you can post links to the essays you reference? I’m having trouble finding them, and am not on the book of face.

[@theriddler2277]

steven-erikson.org/the-problem-of-karsa-orlong/ steven-erikson.org/anomander-rake-and-point-of-view/ steven-erikson.org/screw-your-hero-what-does-the-sidekick-think/ steven-erikson.org/characterization-part-one/ steven-erikson.org/characterization-part2/ facebook.com/steveneriksonofficial/posts/i-will-probably-regret-this-but-feeling-crotchety-i-wrote-an-essay-on-characteri/1646644495487844/ You can start with these, they are spoiler free.

[@EricMcLuen]

"It may be that expositional prose isn't right for the telling of that story" "Tell me of no ones mind,presume nothing of their workings. You and I, we tell nothing, but we show." Right there in the book. 346 and 347 TtH for those playing at home.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks, Eric!

[@otis7847]

Oh! Kellanved is my favorite too!

[@Gerryhatrix]

This is a fantastic series and agree with you one how Erickson writes , re awe and wonder and absolutely beautiful story/themes. Although it’s not character driven by means of a main character hero, his many character creations are truly memorable , down earth and you can really empathise with them 😀 but ....you have to read Malazan more than once you really enjoy it . Great video😀

[@unladenswallow43]

Loved this, keep spreading the good word. 🥰🥰

[@TokyoBlue587]

I’m looking forward to this series, just started Gardens of the Moon. I feel up to the challenge, I have been reading fantasy books since I was in middle school. And as a female fan of fantasy books, I’m glad to hear about the relative lack of sexism/misogyny in these books which is a problem in other books I’ve read (in science fiction books too). Anyway, great discussion guys, I will subscribe to your channels, I love a good in-depth book discussion.

[@bryson2662]

I love this video. TtH is easily my favorite btw

[@IskarJarak]

Same. It’s up there with Kharkanas for me!

[@bryson2662]

@@IskarJarak 💯

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thanks for watching!

[@barryprawira8320]

Interesting discussions guys. Just wanna add a few of my thoughts on Malazan and the topics that you guys talked about. For me what Malazan BOTF series and its related series could be seen as basically a series of history books. It’s the history of the various nations, tribes, peoples, races in the Malazan universe. As such, I think Erikson was correct in writing it through multiple POVs and to have such a really large cast of characters. Which is unlike in a traditional quest fantasy, where typically a chosen one has the future of the whole world on balance. Here, because of the massive world, it’s unlikely that a single person to change the entire world. But, Erikson also repeatedly brought up the idea that it’s also our own individual resposibility to fight evil or at least alleviate pain and suffering that we see. And I agree with Andy that one major theme is how through compassion we can fight evils, as related to the Crippled God. My friend and I agree that if you’re a newbie and u want to start Malazan. The best advice is to be patient. Persevere and be patient o finish the first three books. If you don’t like it by then, yeah it’s probably not for you. I also agree that momentum is key. Because of how dense the information embedded in each chapter, as how it’s related to future or past events and how all the events usually converge, I think it’s best if you binge read the whole series. I first got to read GotM as a buddy read online with, thankfully, a guy who’d read the whole series at least twice. So, he helpfully provided notes as what’s important to focus on (although, again, because of how dense the whole thing is, you pretty much have to pay attention to a lot of things). But our reading schedule was staggered to accommodate people with different reading pace. As such, although I immensely enjoyed the whole series, I still felt that I didn’t get full enjoyment because I kept forgetting details that were relevant and revelatory. So, I’m planning to clear maybe 2-3 months of reading time just to focus on the main 10 + 6 ICE books in my 2nd go around. But, this is that rare series that requires you to read it multiple times to truly enjoy and appreciate how skillful both SE and ICE were in developing such a deep and unique entire world/planet. I haven’t read anything that SE posted on FB, so I can’t comment on whether that might’ve turned people off. If so, that’s unfortunate. But, I think Malazan is just not for everybody for sure. I think from my group that stareted the buddy read, only 4-5 of us managed to complete it until the end. But, I think it’s really important that when you are reading Malazan to have another guy who’s read it before as a place for you to ask questions basically. And to keep you from giving up. If I had picked this up and read it alone, I’d given up right after the first book. So yeah, community like what you guys are doing is essential for newbies to ease through their initial shock and confusion. So, great job guys and keep up the good work.

[@zadig08]

This is so cool! Thank you so much!

[@brettmurray2473]

As a Stormlight fan all I had to know was.... Journey before destination..... Very excited to be thrown into Gardens of the moon.

[@patriciacallico3944]

Thanks guys for a informative conversation.L ovecraft is not a bad person!! please... love malazan.

[@Bunny_Aoife]

just for the record, on the great/favourite character question, I would probably choose Tehol as well, with Kellanved close second, and Iskaral definitely another favourite. But there is a duo and a trio who always come to my mind, who are rarely mentioned, Pores and Kindly, and Picker, Blend and Antsy. Well just while writing this I thought of so many more...

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Hooray for Tehol!

[@Sebulr]

I'm going to buy the first three for my father in laws birthday. He reads lots of fantasy like me. Hope he doesn't read this. I love the malazan books, and the kharkanas trilogy but they are challenging, because they are theme based, rather than character, or plot. Great explanation chaps, but it's still hard cenceptionally. Hats off to Steven Erikson/Steve Lundin. I'm halfway through a convoluted re read.

[@SJ-GodofGnomes21]

Finished re-read and it's just as good if not better. One of the best story's of all time. Yes has it issues ( see book one GoTM )

[@IskarJarak]

Agreed! Nothing is perfect, but I’m with you!! There are so many levels to plumb and it’s good on all of them!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

I have to agree too, and I’m so excited to see how much more I’ll catch when I start my reread!

[@jameswitts3793]

You guys are really convincing me to pick up the Malazan series I'm having massive book fatigue with Wheel of Time

[@IskarJarak]

I hope you do. I actually enjoyed WoT myself, but I read it before I had delved much into deeper, more adult fantasy series. Had I read it after an ASoIaF or a Malazan, I might not have had the same level of enjoyment because my expectations would have been different. Malazan is the opposite-it’s good no matter what you’ve read before or after!

[@jameswitts3793]

@@IskarJarak I think cause I already read lots of fantasy series before Wheel of Time I feel plenty of fatigue in its story I'm a big fan of David Gemmell and his stories are always fun to read

[@alecolson8360]

I've always been a bit of a Malazan hater because a couple of my friends love it and I've never been able to get into it, but seeing you guys have such an open chat about it's value makes me think that was just pettiness. Also if youre a game of thrones fan and you're looking for your mind to get blown I highly recommend Lucifer means Lightbringer here on KZbin 😁

[@IskarJarak]

That’s awesome! I think there’s a lot there to have fun with, even just in a surface level, there’s badass characters and crazy plot stuff happening and then there’s also a lot of other stuff bubbling below the surface to enjoy. Hope this time around is a little more fun! 💪🙏❤️

[@alecolson8360]

Thank you and I have now committed to finishing the series 🙏

[@IskarJarak]

Amen! From your lips to Krul’s ears, more people are gonna join you! Thanks for the feedback and the thoughtful comment! And for watching the vid! Make sure to follow the other guys, that’s where the good videos are at!

[@sbeard10720]

I agree, after the first part of GotM, the books start to take off and you want to know what happens next. I disagree that the characters are so varied that you can not fully connect to them. I would loom for the next book because I wanted to know what happened to a character that was left a cliffhanger in the book I've just finished.I love the comraderie of some characters, the seriousness of others. Ericksson is a smart writer and there were parallels all the way auto present day. I keep telling myself I need to make the time to reread all ten. These are great, epic, sweeping books, whose world you can become immersed in. I am pressed to find anything similar. Even with GRRM, his books were overfilled with descriptions of shields, banner tapestry and meals.

[@christianmanthei4569]

Great vid! Thanks guys. I want to jump into the Malazan books, but I don't have much epic fantasy under my belt. Should I read something like Wheel of Time first?

[@IskarJarak]

Go for Malazan!!

[@deebzscrub]

It always boggles my mind when people don't like Kruppe or Pust. Are they annoying? Absolutely. Are they also hilarious? Sure are!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

I agree!

[@TheLibraryofAllenxandria]

Philip, nooooo!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@TheLibraryofAllenxandria Ha ha!

[@jonrosenberg4324]

For my Sister: The Archeologist Her hands were cracked and her back ached, The ground was hard and the past was unrevealing, There is a ceiling in this business, or maybe a cellar floor, And more and more she felt as if she'd reached it. You can climb into the past as into a hole And search the ground for some misbegotten clue, Like a stakehole, or a cast off shoe, or pottery from an age almost forgotten. And in the winter it's a rotten thing to work all day, in freezing rain, Only to explain to disbelieving ears that's there's nothing there to find. Mind you, when a Saxon coin appears, Cauled in clay, and heavily exciting, As if it had been waiting for her trowel, The biting wind's sting can drop away And she can raise her head And for an instant catch a glimpse of settlement or fort And hear the howl of children at their games, Played, a thousand years before.

[@IskarJarak]

Beauty ❤️

[@jonrosenberg4324]

@@IskarJarak Thank you

[@koleary1798]

OMG when reading the back and forth dialogue between Tehol and Bugg I 100% thought Pratchett too!

[@jonrosenberg4324]

Show don't tell may be my least liked piece of writing advice. For one thing it was originally about film. Film is a visual medium so... yeah show don't tell has a solid foundation there. But when it comes to the written word it's at best a half truth. Consider Shelly's poem Ozymandias the fourteen lines of that work are telling almost completely and it's one of the greatest short poems in the English language. PS. Fascinating pod cast, love the Malazan series.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

My take on "show don't tell" in writing is that often the exposition you think your reader needs is actually not needed, or that there are ways to incorporate more effectively than in an info dump that interrupts the story and yanks the reader away from the immediacy of it. Sometimes, though, you need to summarize or explain some background, so it's impossible to avoid altogether. Thanks for watching!

[@jonrosenberg4324]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I pretty much agree with that take, after all (as a writer myself) I hate having to stop the action or conversation and turn to the reader and say... hey guys this is all the stuff you need to know at this point but I've been too lazy, or clumsy to find a method of integrating it into the narrative naturalistically. That said, you can do it exactly that way to make a point. I guess it comes back to the problem I've had with all the dogmatic writing advice you tend to get from writing courses. One of your fellow book tubers said so succinctly, when she was talking about pure evil villains in her Trope Talk series (this is Red from Overly Sarcastic Productions) - good writing is any writing that works.

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

@@jonrosenberg4324 Yes, I can agree with that. When it comes to writing, my philosophy is to learn the rules so you can learn when and how to break them. I wish you much joy in your writing!

[@jonrosenberg4324]

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Thanks for that, I have to admit the past couple of years have been difficult, for both health and family reasons but I am back at again and hope to have the fifth volume of the current series out some time next year.

[@EricMcLuen]

Just started listening to Ten Very Big books. Wow. Not surprised he was a fencer.

[@SJ-GodofGnomes21]

The Siege Of Dogs........ Breaks my heart xx

[@deebzscrub]

Hey I dunno if he's already been recorded saying it somewhere, but the next time any of you have him on a podcast or interview could you get Erikson's pronunciation of Tehol?

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

The Malazan wiki has a useful pronunciation guide based on Erikson's interviews that I attempt to use (with mixed results since I had other pronunciations locked in my brain). I'm pretty sure the emphasis is on the second syllable of Tehol.

[@paulinetayloe9988]

Kharkanas trilogy iv only got the first two I’m still waiting here in Scotland uk for the third one combing out.

[@IskarJarak]

The third one will come eventually!

[@TheInderTaker]

Yeah, first time I picked up Gardens of the Moon, was at a Waldenbooks in Chicago in 2006

[@TheAlmightyPillock]

I can't help but feel it would be useful for you to have someone on the panel who read it the first time, loved it, didn't have a problem reading it or stop at any point. This gives a lot of people the impression that they will have problems with it. I don't know if it was becasue I am a fan of Sci-fi book especial short stories (where not everything is explained), but I never had a single issue reading these books. If I recommend some books to people and was to warn them that they will struggle, then I give them China Mieville. Now City in the City, Embasy Town, now those books will leave you scratching your heads. __________ "They have no personality," Really? Even characters who are in the other squads of the 14th who barley have parts have more personality than I have read in many other books. He writes people so dam well I can actually remember who people are without having to check the list at the front. This is the first book series where I have not had to go back to re-read chapters to work out who people are, because I can remember as soon as they start speaking. --------- Gardens of the Moon. "I had to read it three times before I understood what the crap was going on." There is your problem. You tried to understand it, rather than accept your ignorance and go along for the ride. I think what helps a lot is reading Erikson Preaface at the start of the book. It tells you that you wont always understand, that you are not meant to, and just to enjoy the ride. It is not inaccessible. It just is not written like a standard fantasy book. Sci-fi is a better comparison.

[@EricMcLuen]

Random observation. Erickson has stated he loved Dune and stole from it. Rhulad as Alia of the Knife?

[@omnitheus5442]

I still think starting at MT OR GotM is a great place to start. MT happens before GotM!!!

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

True! Honestly, wherever you start, there’s so much to love.

[@williamstacey5348]

One way that might explain MBotF to a new reader is this. Imagine if Lord of the Rings had started just before Caradhras. No explanation of the Shire. No Council of Elrond. No exposition of the rings and most definitely no explanation of what the Quest was trying to accomplish. Just...GO! You learn on the fly who the characters are and their history. You think that Gandalf is the center of everything, and then he ... does not pass. I imagine Boromir’s point of view would have seemed perfectly reasonable, and you probably would think that was the quest. It would have been frustrating to try to figure out what they were doing, and why on (middle) earth would Frodo have chosen to walk to Mordor?!? And Aragorn walking through that mountain? (Actually the parallels are interesting). But then imagine how cathartic some of the Big Reveals would have been? Strider is who?! You need to Destroy the One Ring?! Etc etc. Also, instead of hundreds of pages of mythology and exposition (which, admit it, we all had trouble with the first time), the author would have to add elements of the story to tell us this information in Malazan style. Basically, by things that happen asking the way. I don’t know how that would work, but MBotF is proof that it can. It would be a totally different style, but in the end just as fulfilling, and in some aspects more memorable. (Not knocking LotR at all! Just presenting this a a way to describe SE’s style). I think that’s how I’ll explain it to people in the future.

[@andrewkraft2586]

So I've read the first 6 books and there are times I am like "omfg! This is the best series!", but then most of the time I am like "wtf is going on? Why is this happening? Why do I need to know this?". Its so frustrating. I haven't picked the series back up in months. From the middle of Memories of Ice to the middle of House of Chains is some of the best fantasy I have read, specifically Karsa Orlongs story. But then it went away from that and I've had a hard time getting back into it.

[@christiaannienkemper2419]

What is your opinion about reading the books in this order as a full experience? 1- Gardens of the Moon 2- Night of Knives / Esslemont. 3- Deadhouse Gates 4- Memories of Ice 5- House of Chains 6- Midnight Tides 7- The Bonehunters 8- Return of the Crimson Guard /Esslemont. 9- Reaper's Gale 10- Stonewielder /Esslemont. 11- Toll the Hounds 12- Orb Sceptre Throne /Esslemont. 13- Dust of Dreams 14- The Crippled God 15- Blood and Bone /Esslemont. 16- Assail /Esslemont.

[@simonkelly1958]

Finished series 2019, only problems were characters introduced without introduction, not named and then having different names later in the books, Worth reading but can see why people give up.

[@kenlane5287]

I've tried to get into malazan 4 times, I think I'm too dumb

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Not every story is going to be for everyone, so no worries if it doesn’t work for you. Fantasy has lots of other great reads for all sorts of people, and no one is dumb for not liking a particular one. But thanks for watching!

[@waldo8791]

Anyone know what happened to Andy Smiths channel?

[@Kruppes_Mule]

Can you guys link the essays you are referencing? I've read most but can't find the one regarding the snake. Thanks!

[@Rogue_VI]

Erikson pronounces Malazan wrong. 😀

[@IskarJarak]

Thank you lol

[@MN-wg8qd]

I'm love/hate on the series as a whole. There are great parts certainly, but 1000 page books are going to have too much bloat. The most frustrating part to me are the parts that are "supposed to be so epic and cool", but just aren't written in a way that you care or really understand what is actually happening. More so to the former and not the latter. Like Pale. This giant amazing devastating scene just doesn't really capture me even after reading it several times. 10k people slaughtered, 300k year old ascendants.....the numbers are just so large and we see things like this so often and it kind of loses meaning to me. The ending of DG is amazing in scope and was pretty good, but it didn't hit me like the Red Wedding (as a not so huge fan of the family affected too) or the incident with Jaime Lannister in ASOIAF for comparison. In the 7 books that I read the only part that I remember having a large emotional impact towards was the Beak scene.

[@nilanniruthan]

So you made a collab video on such a big scale AND SE commented on it. And I missed it. Ok then... *jumps off building*

[@sharknado9374]

reading the books keep your narratives out of fiction noone needs to know your political views