A pony that doesn't like being driven.

[@josmith-kearney3490]

I just love this guy, his patience is unlimited, I could watch his training videos all day they are so informative & this guy has such amazing experience & shows that he truly loves the horses that he is training or ponies as they can be just as cussed & awkward. Thanks Barry & long may you continue to educate us. Jo.

[@trevorheaslip7038]

Love your work Barry

[@pictlandpickers1171]

Barry you are a legend

[@lspthrattan]

lol no lie, I actually laughed out loud when you tossed the harness over the pony's back and he just looked at you like you were stupid. Best demonstration you could have done to prove the pony's not being skittish or nervous. I've always felt that if your animal is going to spook at things like that, you have some more ground training to do. This particular pony reminds me a lot of the little black mare we had when I was growing up. Totally unflappable, but not always keen to get to work!

[@mbmcclure3579]

My grandfather was a teamster logging in the smoky mountains in Tennessee. I have ridden horses all my life but never worked around driving stock much. I would love to spend time there with you learning everything I could learn from you. Love your videos!

[@Isobel201]

I've driven with the RDA for three years and always get dire warnings from my instructor never to drop the saddle of the harness as it'll break and frighten the pony. The training you do has opened my eyes.

[@staycerene9438]

i fell in love with this pony! i'm so sorry that the owners decided not to invest more time with him. i think if anyone could "encourage" that little chunky monkey to be happy in his driving pony role it would be Mr. Barry(he may actually be the ONLY one to be able to!)! It would've been amazing to see the progression this pony made under his guiding hands and heart. Than you for the wonderful video!

[@franlooving4203]

and the pony is beautiful!

[@bobspud1]

Sadly not everyone has endless amounts of money but i hope he ended up with someone nice

[@holmesfamilyfarm]

Barry, I admire your honesty. Not every pony should be driven. Why waste your time and energy undoing what someone else has allowed to become a problem. The pony will have a better life if he is not a driving pony. Yes, you could rehabilitate him but if he is smart enough and some idiot gets ahold of him in the future either the pony or the driver could get hurt. let both you and the pony move on. you to starting horses in your kind and sensible way, him to a life out of harness. thanks!

[@loredelore7286]

We had a pony a few years ago and he was the wilyest I ever had. He was sweet as could be when he was with children as long as the adults where there but as soon as he was left with children he was a little nightmare would put his head down and pull them over, wouldn't go when asked by a child on board, we just had to let him go and he went hunting and was a star we heard later. He did everything with glee just didn't like doing school work on demand!

[@KJMudge]

Barry you are awesome horseman you take great pride in your work , your honest and hardworking and you understand when the horse speaks to you . I admire how you put the horses well being first and you are never cruel or heavy handed with the horse. I wish I was able to watch you work but unfortunately I live on the otherside of the world so I juat have to be contented watching your videos . cheers 😊

[@melaniehellum1281]

I had a poney that I trained from the beginning he was great , but he would turn into a little bugger if I took him anywhere . If I took him to a jump meet in the country he could be fine but it depended on the day. And training he would get like that pout he would do it but no happiness or heart. He never got away with anything and was trained carefully and never so much as a scuff on my tack or me. He hated having his picture taken he would go nuts with a flash camera. And even if a person brought one out he would be looking. But give him a kid on his back holding them for a first ride he would love every second of it and good for everything at home jump etc all good.

[@janiestevens2581]

I wish you didnt have to explain every little detail to people because of them thinking your not being truthful! Its ridiculous! Anyone who has ever seen your videos should be able to tell what a truthful honest horse loving man you are!! You SHOULD NOT HAVE TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF! I think your fantastic! Hello from Virginia, USA

[@barryhook2]

@hackneysaregreat Thanks for your comment - we had him in an open bridle and he was much worse than he was in blinkers. We are trying to show on this video that he is not frightened of the carriage or noise behind him, indeed he stands still while we move the carriage and flap the reins about whilst he is wearing blinkers - he just doesn't want to do it. We do not know his history so we don't know how others have treated him or broken him beforehand, which could have contributed to his attitude.

[@barryhook2]

We don't charge owners for any damage that occurs to our harness/vehicles (we use all our own equipment for breaking so we know its good quality) but that's all part of the job and it wouldn't be fair to expect clients to pay for things getting damaged or broken. Most of our clients do let us know how their horses are going once they've finished training - its finding out what happened to them prior to coming to us that's often the tricky part!

[@akanewe]

Barry, really you are nº1! I just love listening to you man, you have that confident, self-assured attitude of the experienced person. You know, you don't just assume things and that's cos you bother to live through the experience. You certainly get the message through! Thanks for making these vids and opening our eyes. You sometimes bring back memories of good old Kent, where I went to school. Now here at home in Spain I bear in mind so many of the things you say when handling my horses(just pleasure riding). Wish you all the success possible.

[@barryhook2]

Our training is based on building horse's confidence in itself and in the driver, as well as enjoying being driven. It might take a lot of time to get to that stage with a horse such as this bearing in mind its previous training experience (which has to be weighed up against the financial side - is it worth investing large amounts of money in a horse that might never have the right attitude for the chosen discipline, even though it is perfectly safe and trustworthy to drive).

[@chephoenix2551]

I really appreciate this video.

[@MollyGrue1]

well they are all individuals. I saw horses being trained for jumping and they hated it, even did not lift their feet and proned to horrible falls. Was told about a friesian once. Trainer said, he had to do some small jumps. Owner said, nope, don't. Trainer did not listen, endet up with a heap of firewood (former cavaletti) and a very silly look on his face after the horse had ploughed through the material. You cannot FORCE it. Saw nice folks working with a huge and nice warmblood gelding. Did EVERYTHING with/for his owners who both were beginners and not easy on his back, but he was patient, nice and willig. Only thing: Any piece of painted wood reminding of obstacles for jumping. NOPE. He would not even step over it. Raised a big fuss. Soured for good? Maybe. Well, he was a nice and reliable horse for everything else. But here, there was no talk possible. Sometimes s.o. else had messed up before. And the horse has a big NOPE written across its face. Won't do that again. Sometimes owners and trainers have to accept and adapt - or even change horses before everyone involved becomes terribly unhappy. No use spending money in training a discipline the horse hates or feels bad with.

[@blackhellebore89]

The look on that pony's face is like "But, thats not how it goes on!"

[@syrynus876]

The minute I saw the "walking on glass" gait, I thought "Not happy!"

[@brendareed8412]

He laid down while harnessed to the cart? Wow.

[@kirstinetermansen8360]

I like this honesty,

[@dorriemeyer]

i love the matter of fact explanation Your teaching has helped me and in turn made for a very lovely driving horse that I am blessed enough to spend time with...thank you so much....

[@Oakleaf700]

That is very fair. From the few videos of yours I have seen, you are a great team of people, kind, confident-then I googled, and saw you worked with Youngs Brewery! My childhood was spent seeing these beautiful Shires, and my joy was being allowed to ride round on a back of a dray all day at a 'fayre'-then be driven back to the Yard after. Such a shame the horses were sold off when the brewery closed. those horses were out working in all conditions in heavy traffic, calm as anything.

[@breyerart232]

What a little stunner!

[@kategleason6481]

He certainly is a steady boy. He just wants his share of free will I'm guessing. Some animals and people are more willing than others to work.

[@barryhook2]

This carriage was made to our own specifications by the Talbot Brothers. I do not know how much it would cost to have made now, however they do sell a variety of standard pleasure driving carriages.

[@honeybaby290]

Wish we had a "barry hook" in the north of england, he is fantastic, love his videos, truthful and very informative... who needs monty roberts lol. Look forward to seeing more :-)

[@chelackie]

Good you have him for a while ,shame that people make him like he is ,Great to watch you at work, you remind me of a brilliant 'orseman I once knew, Ray Thompson, up near Sheffield.Thanks for your videos, they're fantastic.

[@jesusfreak9675]

dang! what a little tank horse!

[@barryhook2]

Simply because we don't have requests to do that with client's horses - the last ones we did for agricultural work were for the Victorian Farm TV show; we did chain harrowing+logging work then took them to Acton Scott Farm to work in their own vintage ploughs/tip carts. The main thing was that they were safe regardless of what they were pulling. The heavies we've broken recently were for pleasure driving; but if someone wanted us to break their horse to plow we would be happy to show it.

[@mouse7430]

as patient as he is with you tossing things around him he might be a good kid/learner pony for someone to ride! whatever happened to him i hope he's happier (and not having to pull a cart haha)

[@deniseryan1909]

Other brilliant video barry

[@Southernpinesranch]

"heres the reins, just throw them over there" 5:53 🤣🤣🤣 That made me laugh.

[@USNAVDC]

Hey Barry Hook....I don't even have a horse now, but I love seeing your videos! I am a horse lover and it's great to see these. Thanks sharing your knowledge.

[@hackneysaregreat]

@barryhook2 So blinkers are not the cause. Another possebillity might be, that they let him pull a way too heavy/ overloaded carriage till way past the exhaustion mark. Moving a carriage reminding him of collapsing in front of it. The thing I noticed is, that he is constantly with his ears in a backwards (non agressive) position, that only recovers when the headgear comes off. He is certainly (in my eyes) expecting something unpleasant to happen to him.

[@jbtelstad1]

I agree with one of the other comments, it would have been nice to see how you solved this ponies problems. I admire the calm way you handle the horses, and wish you were closer (we're in Canada)to help out our North American drivers. We had a couple of wonderful Orlovs that had been trained by Doris Ganton, but they have since passed away and we are left with all our younger Orlovs. Just needing some time to get to the training! Thank you for posting all your videos!

[@darkhorsejosh]

I'd like to make who ever upset this poor pony in the first place but harnessed up and forsed to pull you round matey, great video. Wish I had the time and money to do my big friesian.

[@Autumnvicky]

Both kind, and knowledgeable. I respect you. Thanks for the videos. :)

[@traceysayar7523]

his really gorgeous ... hope he come good x

[@13doll13face]

I like listening to you talk

[@humanityandloves]

your videos are the best hello from australia

[@cathygourlay9903]

Barry, love your videos. I know this is an older one, but is there a follow up to it? I have a pony just like this one; she is steady as a rock until you ask her to go forward; then she will refuse, back up and sometimes rear up. She is very clever! There are times when she goes well, but when she refuses, she is very strong willed. Wish I could bring her to you, but I am In Canada. Any advice?

[@annamcknight2573]

Powerful little redhead. Can see him thinking all the time you are driving it. He is puzzled. It worked before, why isn't it working now? What can I do next to get back to my stable? Do you know what happened to him, Barry?

[@GoldenLioness100]

It's easy to see the horse isn't afraid, but he does look tense the entire time. He's had a poor time of it at some point.

[@Broke_horse_girl]

some horses just dont like to do some things, just like how some horses dont like to be ridden and as owners people need to respect that

[@nikolaypeev6896]

A happy horse would do anything for his human

[@barryhook2]

Thanks for your comment, however as much as we would like to help, there's no simple answer to your question. We believe every horse is an individual and his training must be undertaken with this in mind. The best method for one may not suit another; without seeing your cob it is impossible to say what the best way to proceed may be. What I would say is to only do as much work as your horse can physically cope with and make sure you consolidate each stage before progressing onto the next one.

[@barryhook2]

@TheHappimamma We do not know his full history or who broke him initially, so cannot say why he is like he is. After coming to us, he was collected by his owners and taken home so we do not know what has happened to him now.

[@lnix99]

aw, what a shame. I was hoping to see him finished out right in another video.

[@barryhook2]

@barryhook2 Barry is confident that he could get him driving safely, confidently and happily, but he would have taken a while to do, which wasn't a viable option for his owners.

[@TerriReuserHVR90]

I had another horseman say: "if you make a big deal about something, it will end up being a big deal to the horse". My own experience says that's so. All this "making friends" with your horse and the anthropomorphism has not been good for horses. Having learned from my own mistakes, I truly appreciate your approach.

[@lorrainericardo8680]

you are a big man , and the horse probably feels your strength ,, so he behaves , and considering that you know horses , I guess they feel that and don't mess around with you , they just obey ,

[@debtompkins5363]

some horses just don't care to drive, just not their thing had a mare that way, was an obedient automaton under saddle ...she would behave in harness but you could see she hated it and she never changed her mind we can all take piaano lessons but we can't all be concert performers

[@barryhook2]

Absolutely, we have seen here a handful of times a horse that would drive very well but was clearly not very pleased about it!

[@barryhook2]

@hyperfocus2011 If you listen to Barry's commentary on this film he explains and demonstrates that the horse is not afraid.

[@loardjohnWhorfin]

i like your style.. YOU My friend Have that thing they call HORSE SENSE.

[@ponysmonicaharrison812]

I just can't help but wonder if the horse maybe needed to see a chiropractor ? I know a lot of people are skeptical. Yes it was obvious the horse was not lame but that doesn't mean something on the inside was not right. I recall watching this video when it first came out and it was the first video I ever watched of Barry. I thank you so much for continuing and how your business has flourished. Bravo and bless you and yours, it definitely is a calling on your life to encourage so many others. Just know that I'm kind of like your enamored stalker 😂🤓always watching. Hats off to you

[@ryanwright4477]

Hi Barry, I break horses in for ridden work and deal with issues similar with rider ignorance so was quite refreshing to watch your frank video which had so much more impact! I wondered how much you'd charge to break in a 15.2h welsh d stallion 4yrs never driven or pulled anything, I'd rather sent it professional and done properly as I wouldn't know where to start. I'd give you more details with direct contact Kind Regards Hollie PS love the video made me smile

[@xh2672]

I drove a pony once and she was small but could pull up to 300 pounds and I was impressed

[@asilah3164]

Is he moving strangely in the back? Short-strided?

[@angelap381]

I'm sorry they felt they had to lie to you about what he was like. You certainly showed us he's very quiet. Someone's trained him to be bad under harness. They really did him a disservice.

[@franlooving4203]

Angela P: I agree with you. I have found people to lie or train horribly because they are ignorant, don't care... I knew quite a few who did this type of thing. It's just sad for the horse. I love the Barry Hook videos. You can tell how amazing he is with the horses and if I had the money, the horse, the need-I would definitely hire him to train my horse or pony.

[@rayocaballo6122]

What I would give to work for you.

[@jogargus1277]

BRAVO

[@amandafolster5804]

I know this video was made a long time ago, but I am wondering if there was a follow up video on this pony. Were you successful with him?

[@tashdog1]

I've always wondered that too.

[@sallymoyle1693]

What would you do, Barry, if you had the opportunity?

[@lorrygeewhizzbang9521]

haha look at that relaxed hind leg...he couldn't care less.😊 might make a good schooling horse...

[@artgoat]

Oh, I've run into a couple of canny fellows like that. One mare I was trimming was just smart and spoiled. She would turn and rear and literally sit or lie down on the ground to get away from what she didn't want to do. Her first owner had won trophies off her back, and leased her to a couple of silly girls who indulged her & just ruined her. This boy looks smart and sweet (when he gets his way), but a challenge. I had to laugh aloud at the sacking with the reins he put up with. Good grief!

[@vmasterssaddlery5962]

This pony is wearing harness not fitting well enough for him, he gets his breast blocked because of the breast belt being too wide, therefore blocking his movements, because it should go a tad higher, but being too wide would block his wind pipe, put this ponies harness up by 1-2 holes both sides, he will be absolutely hunky-dory

[@vmasterssaddlery5962]

+VmasterS Saddlery commented just too soon, just noticed, that the breast part of harness has been changed in to more narrow one and well lifted as you can see from 4:15.

[@deborahduke2888]

my horse lunges forward on takeoff...like she is jumping a ditch. she dances around like she is afraid- any suggestions?

[@gracewright9034]

Yeah! I found the "Subscribe" button

[@Lorenemuah]

I try to train all my horses to drive with out blinders. Its a slower process and at times gets frustrating but once they take to it, then I put the blinders back on and they become great driving horses.I have only had two horses that would not work with out the blinders but also the owners didn't want to pay the extra time I needed to put into the horse and just wanted the horse driving.

[@barryhook2]

We train some horses in open bridles too - its not necessarily a longer process but some horses go happily in blinkers right from the outset, however here in the UK blinkers are used more often that not, whereas in Europe you see more horses driven without blinkers. We didn't train this pony from the start so don't know whether he was initially trained with or without blinkers; as you say, its often owners who do not want to put the time and finances into the horse, which then limits how much the trainer can achieve with it.

[@kathybaca]

You are super.

[@LeaMiaoBauMuu]

13.20 lol great job!!!!

[@barryhook2]

Sorry what do you mean by "plows?"

[@MsSophia97]

My mini mare does not like to stand at harness while working. How do I fix this? - Sophie

[@userunavailable3095]

Makes me so mad when I see someone who doesn't get it that when you let horses, kids or dogs get away with bad behavior out of "kindness" or "sympathy" you bring a world of hurt and pain on that horse, child or dog. Spoiled horses end up in dog food cans. Spoiled dogs end up in the pound. Spoiled kids end up in prison. Train them up right, and they'll have a good life. The first pony I ever trained is 30, still working and still sound. She's never missed a meal in her life.

[@mevvif]

You spend almost 15 minutes showing / explaining that the pony is not scared! even if you throw round with things and are pretty hair at the pony. and then fu is proud of you for that.

[@lol44488]

barry how come you never show us plows

[@GiselaSchlingmann]

The pony has sweated a lot, and he itsches all over his body. So the owner should treat the fur, that means of course washing and drying afterwards. When you want to tie up a horse, it should wear a halter, not a bridle. The title of this video is wrong because the pony behaves very well. Kind regards from Germany from Charlotte Bonnie, 78 y.o. (55 years of keeping riding ponies)

[@tracyfun6918]

Wonder what happened to him

[@jennifergee5193]

I had thought about training my pony to cart, but if she spooks it's usually from behind. She's actually a horse not a pony. So I can't decide. How do u know a horse would be a good cart horse?

[@dinkdink2001]

Is there an update video? How did this little guy turn out?!

[@barryhook2]

We do not know; in cases like this where we give the owner an honest opinion, sometimes people get offended and then do not stay in contact to let us know how the horse is. Once it left our yard we did not hear from the owners again, so we don't know what has happened to this pony.

[@dinkdink2001]

That's a shame. You do great work and are incredibly patient with all of them!

[@cavies12345]

How many weeks would he need to be with you to get him to drive in any situation and for as long as you say?

[@StephieLilley]

He is such a cute little guy. Oh my god. Such a cutie. Would be awesome to see driving, riding or just in pasture. He's so cute. Did you guys end up keeping him? If you don't mind me asking. You do an amazing job at training horses. Most people don't have the knowledge you do and the reason the horse does something is usually because of the owner not doing something. That's what I've learned after my years in this industry. Be it riding, driving, team roping, etc.

[@annamcknight2573]

Was his pokey action due to resentment, unfitness or just the way he went? Walks like he is on hot coals. What happened to him in the end?

[@MyCrazyClan]

The harness is the easy bit, traffic proofing him should be top priority first.

[@fjirlin]

How would you get such a horse to pul a carriage willingly and savely? If it is not fear, as you said, on what is the training based?

[@katana489]

hi, just wondering what the next video of this pony in his training was called?, i saw another one with a horse like this one but it didn't look like him, had a full blaze down its face where he's only got a stripe and a snip of white on his face.

[@barryhook2]

katana489 Hello, this is the only film of this pony that we made. He was only with us for 2 weeks, so the other pony you mention with the full blaze would be another client's horse and not this one. There is no follow-up video to the pony in this film as he went home to his owners afterwards.

[@katana489]

thanks 4 the reply, i was just wondering after u worked with him, if he felt any better about having harness on n how he progressed.? its wonderful that u help out these horses getting over their problems/ fears.:)

[@hairtogo53]

barryhook2

[@moimoi5625]

goes through me when bridles are removed flippantly, allowing the bit to clang teeth.

[@2t3hr7]

Pony looks very physically uncomfortable in the harness etc.

[@lindavonh131]

Yes you can fix a horse with time but if owner not willing to spend the time then that’s what they get. I can see a major crest in neck way to fat. They will pay the money they’d pay to have him fixed in vet bills.

[@hackneysaregreat]

I wonder what would happen when you drive him without blinkers. He seems to want to see/know what is going on behind him, perhaps in constant fear (because of former experiences) of being beaten?

[@ahmedbaig7279]

Poney in my language is called 'tatto'. There is a famous saying that in comparison to 1000 healty donkeys one horse even 'tatto' is much much better. You are driving a very cart and your horse is also moving delightly. If you are not satisfied try this horse in a two wheel loading cart, employed in Afghanistan, Pakistan. But humanely it is better to use donkeys for two wheeler loading carts, and both male and female donkeys can be used, and it is a fairly pleasent ride both in urban and rural areas. The donkey can haul up to 700 kilograms of load easily for a distance of 50 kilo meters. Horses are made for kings and queens; they are friendly and does'nt shy for doing labour. They are put before buggies and need an experienced man whom we call 'coachwan'. This looks to me an English word.This is an animal on which you can rely 100 per cent.

[@mesatop5]

Wouldn't you like to move to Southern California in the USA, say, just down the road from my mare and me??

[@Oakleaf700]

If only owners would let you know how their ponies are doing now. Who pays for the bu77ered shafts and harness?? . At first glance this pony looks as if anyone could drive him...as if butter wouldn't melt.

[@hyperfocus2011]

@barryhook2 he is afraid after you hit traffic you could create a day from hell!

[@lol44488]

using a turnin plow or tiller plow drawn by a horse

[@bloomingaccents]

Haha, poor baby spent want to pull a big man in a big cart!!

[@peanutsstory4022]

Surly that pony is to small for that

[@YOYO-ew8mp]

teeth?

[@kavick4]

Barry Hook obviously a top class horse trainer but never gives away any training techniques or tips just talks about how the horse has improved due to his training . Talks non stop but explains nothing in detail .

[@barryhook2]

Hi kavick4, see you've commented this a fair few times! We try to give tips where possible, but it's the old problem of 'a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing'. If someone was to watch a video and think to themselves "oh that's how you do it I'll go do that" and it was not the correct approach for that horse (as all are different and it takes a lot of experience to choose the right methods - and even then we sometimes get it wrong!) then it could lead to accidents and injuries for all involved. What works for one horse could be the exact opposite thing another horse needs.

[@kavick4]

@@barryhook2 Fair comment and thank you for taking time to reply . I have spent many hours watching your videos and all credit to you , your definitely an expert horse trainer with perfect results . I can appreciate you stating there are stupid people around who watch one piece of film then attempt it themselves mostly in the wrong way . I put my comments on a few of your films which I wish somebody had done before I spent hours watching them expecting some tips or useful advice , I do realise you are protecting your business to some extent by not revealing training tips but I prefer to know how the journey happened from start to end result not just see the final destination with the odd short clip or two that was taken at the beginning . I am sure there are many people who take great pleasure in watching your films and long may you continue but I prefer my watching to be more educational learning than pleasing leisure . Best of luck , no disrespect or bad feelings .

[@alesianelson7584]

Maybe the pony would be better of riding? Hate seeing the effects of human ignorance on horses. I'm sure you see a lot of horses that have issues stemmed through poor choices of humans.

[@michelebuss7664]

Pony struggling a bit with that big rig, and you are not holding the reins correctly. Naughty naughty!

[@barryhook2]

Michelle, at the risk of repeating ourselves, we presume you are new to our channel. There is no 'correct' way to hold reins - especially when training driving horses. If you do not know this, it is unlikely you have much experience with driving horses at all and your opinion over whether or not a pony is 'struggling' with the cart it has been hitched to is essentially null and void due to lack of education on the matter. Whatever your opinion or experience, Barry has more than enough experience of his own to know what horses are capable of pulling comfortably and does not need the opinion of someone over the internet watching a clip amounting to around one minute of driving. And again, the condescending way you phrase your remarks is not appreciated - please take your comments elsewhere.

[@michelebuss7664]

@@barryhook2 just been on a carriage course, and have been driving since I was 17. If you don't like criticism, either turn off comments or stop putting up videos that do not promote correct and safe driving procedures. And my name only has one L.

[@barryhook2]

Apologies for the misspelling Michele, but we cannot apologise for our reply. In our opinion, 'just been on a carriage course' or driving since you 'were 17' does not supersede Barry's 65 years of training horses for carriage driving to be safe, confident and happy in any sphere of harness work and in rubber bits. 'Correct and safe' is entirely a subjective thing - what is 'correct and safe' for one turnout, is the exact opposite for another. Just because it is taught on carriage courses or promoted by driving societies, does not make it right for every horse. We will not stop putting up videos showing our training methods. We will not turn off comments as we like to hear from people. Criticism is also welcome. What we don't like is the childish and condescending comments such as 'tut tut tut' and 'naughty naughty'. May we suggest back that if you do not like our channel or what we do here at HDP, there are a great many alternatives on KZbin that you may prefer.

[@michelebuss7664]

@@barryhook2 that's great then! If you like to hear from people, you will of course expect all sorts of replies! I'm well into my 90's and still driving, correctly! Thanks for your insightful comments!