A Refugium Is the Easiest Way to Solve Nutrient Issues in a Saltwater Tank. Lights, Chaeto, Done!

Following the 52 Weeks of Reefing - Episode 27: Refugiums - Utilizing Algae for a Thriving Reef Tank. • Week 27: Refugiums - U... ... Harnessing algae to keep nutrients at bay isn't a new thing, but man is it so easy to do these days! Algae scrubbers, algae reactors and refugiums, each can be your solution to high nitrates and phosphates.
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[@danalcott6541]

You guys are brilliant at what you do. I'm currently waiting for a 190 to cycle, biggest problem I have is setting up my AI Sols to the correct intensity, why don't the manufacturers send a brief instruction manual!!! Keep up the good work guys!

[@bassintheburgh]

Been binging your videos as my daughter and I are planning to start a tank together so I cant thank you enough for these resources. Been out of the game for quite a few years but its so fascinating to me to see things that were at one time more questionable or controversial on the reef central forums become viable and proven methods of reef keeping like the algae scrubber. Really so much has changed in what seems to me like a short period of time but I guess it has been over 10 years

[@jesuszamudio1695]

Please do more on how to clean chato. Alge barn is always out of stock of clean chaeto

[@MiddleAgedMike]

Please in your one tank that doesn’t have room for a refugium, try some form of carbon dosing. Tropic Marin Bacto balance or elimi NP are great, easy, cheap options that have directions to follow. Plus BRS already has a good relationship with TM so I’m sure you could have a candid conversation with Lou. Carbon dosing seems like an overlooked topic on BRS investigates. So could be something where we all learn from.

[@sheldonpaula]

I honestly believe Tunze has the best algae reactor design. Easy to maintain and keeps the ball spinning. When it stops spinning, it’s time to harvest. My only complaint wit the design is the feed pump. It’s a bit awkward with the silicone tube and filter screen on the bottom of the feed pump. I run it in the sump and I guess they designed it to be run in or outside if the sump.

[@anniejefferson4642]

Love my sump don't know why people hide them. Blurple. Lol. We needa fuge sump show.

[@artistic_spaz3724]

You mentioned growing out chaeto in a window and dosing with fertilizer before adding to refugium......could you use the skimmer goop/water you clean out as a natural food source maybe?

[@tazccl]

Thanks for making the video. I have a 20 gallon waterbox and would like to add a refugium. I tried to add one in the middle chamber and it did not work. I got a Tunze Mar 3181 macro algae reactor for a great price, free I know this might be over kill. I don't want to drill the tank so how would you go about pumping the reactor. Again thanks for making the videos.

[@MrDon967]

I'd say an algae turf scrubber (ATS) is :D

[@ROTTERtube]

So what's the PAR suggestion for the refugium?

[@OCNcheffy]

You mentioned that a well running refugium "You wont have to worry about nitrate or Phosphate". I have to trim back my chaeto once a week, and I find it hardly touches phosphate. You mentioned in another video that chaeto has little affect on phosphate as well. It keeps nitrate in check, and is very efficient at that, but phosphate export/management requires another solution.

[@BRStv]

If you have low nitrate, but high phosphate, GFO is a great tool to help get them back to being balanced again. I'd suggest using less than recommended if you go this route because yo don't want to completely strip the tank of phosphate.

[@andrewsdrmike]

I use an ATS, less mess and no sump space used

[@jonathanrichards5024]

Finding out how to clean chaeto would be a bigggg deal

[@lukemilne6922]

Hey guys. Top video. How do you stop other algaes growing in a fuge? Currently trying to get a fuge cranking in a Redsea 625xxl with an AI fuge light, but it keeps growing a red slime and hair algae? I was told to add more water movement and have added a small pump but that hasn't helped much. Any ideas?

[@BRStv]

It usually comes down to the amount of chaeto you start with. Photosynthetic bacteria like cyano and algae like hair algae are very simple organisms and can out-compete slower growing macro algae like chaeto. In many cases, it's about removing that cyano and hair algae manually until you have enough of a mass of chaeto to where it fills the refugium area. Not a whole lot of fun in the beginning, but once you get the refugium established, it should be much easier to maintain long term.

[@fishstix1988]

what are your thoughts on adding snails and hermits in the refugium to help with detritus?

[@jyoung11]

Snails poop too

[@christophersherlock9397]

Any suggestions on where to buy Chaeto? I have never had good luck with Algae Barn.

[@BRStv]

Algae Barn is our go-to, but you can also try your local fish store or reef club.

[@bopeep7806]

I love my tunze refugium light, its simple, it grows algae its ip68 water proof which alot of the refugium lights are not and it can go under the water closer to the algae and prevent light loss also i do reverse light cycle on a simple plug timer to help with ph, if nitrate and phos are going up then i increase light period , if nutrients are going down to much reduce light period and nutrients go up :)

[@tylerjaax4917]

Love mine too! I have the 6500k. Grows my Gracilaria Hayi like mad! Put it on one of my Kasa power strip controllable outlets and it’s good to go with control.

[@bopeep7806]

@@tylerjaax4917 yeah have just got the aquatic t5 hybrid so I’m looking at the 3x wifi kasa socket to run the 2 banks of t5 separately and was going to run the refugium on the spare :)

[@tylerjaax4917]

@@bopeep7806 I have two Kasa 6 plug strips for my system and still have a few sockets free. 😊 I love the power monitoring and scheduling features.

[@bopeep7806]

@@tylerjaax4917 thanks for the reply, will get one now :)

[@dusk1947]

So, any chance on a BRS Triton Formula in the future? The biggest challenge of Triton is that it can be hard to source... I find their 4-part incredibly appealing. But over the last year, I've seen numerous video and posts of Reefer reluctantly swapping to something else because they couldn't reliably source it during the pandemic.

[@BRStv]

The closest thing that we currently have to offer would be the combo of the BRS two part and Tropic Marin A & K elements + Tropic Marin Part C. Ryan actually did a video on this system. I'll include a link below if you wanted to check it out. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYicmX2ifa6hd7M

[@projectsoup]

Question Ryan and Randy (or BRS rep) - when you mention putting Chaeto in fresh water, is that tap water with chlorination or chloramines still in the water? Or is this supposed to be RO/DI water, without salt added?

[@jyoung11]

You can rinse them in any water and they will survive

[@BRStv]

When Ryan experimented with freshwater dipping Chaeto, he was using fresh RODI water (no salt added). I'm not sure he came up with the perfect dipping solution, but the good news is that the Chaeto survived the dip and we never really saw any major pests in Ryan's tank.

[@Jtone_philthy_aquatics]

Hey I just received my first of 2 orders I have placed with you guys during all of these sales going on. Just curious I thought all preferred reefers automatically got a $10 card with each order unless you won an actual prize? Just wondering because my order didn’t have either any I’ve been signed up for emails and txts for a long time now. Thanks tho guys the shipping is always super fast! Love brs

[@BRStv]

Shoot our customer service team an email. If you should have gotten a card, they'll get you one 🙂 [e-mail]

[@johnatella8498]

At 3:50 I couldn't hear what kind of bulb you recommend.

[@ArachnoJoozt]

At 3:50 he said 'blurple' light, referring to the colour of the horticulture lights. (f. i. Check the tunze refugium light)

[@dusk1947]

Yep, "blurple" as in a combination of both blue and red spectrums. Tunze, Neptune, Kessil, and a few others can all create the blue-red spectrum (which looks fuchsia). It's because most green macro algae have chlorophyll A & B in abundance. And because your water is shallow in a filtration system (usually), the red spectrum is fully available to drive photosynthesis. So by giving both blue and red, you cater to both absorption peaks in the organism and max your photosynthetic potential.

[@brandonmms]

When is the best time to start a refugium? If you don't have enough nutrients in the tank the cheto will die off won't it?

[@dusk1947]

I’ll defer to BRS’s guidance. But, if they don’t reply specifically, here’s some general advice. This is my favorite topic to explore and debate in the hobby. You can start a refugium as soon as you have the nutrients to grow algae, yes. And without any available nutrient sources, algae will die off. That can come in the form of starter fish, ghost feedings, or artificial dosing. But what is important to remember: the size of your algae colony will determine how much is required to feed it. If you have only a fish or two worth of food, keep the algae sparse and harvest it when it starts dying back. Or if your system is packed with fish and feedings, grow a ton of it. You regulate the biomass, and you have to “tune” it’s growth amount over time. As for the best time to start, I’ve yet to find a convincing argument which nails down an ideal stage of a new tank’s succession. I started mine just after noticing the hair and turf algae establishing, as part of a new “cycle”. By adding a eutrophic macro algae, usually a “green” like Cheato or Ulva, you are attempting to outcompete the pest algae. And you know you have nutrients, because something is feeding the pest algae. But you could certainly wait until the tank is fully established and you’ve exhausted other methods of nutrient control. Or, you could even dose nutrients and grown them in a fishless system. It’s really up to you. As long as the conditions are right, the organisms will grow. If you want additional resources: I remember, Algae Barn had some useful articles on starting a fuge early, under their “learn” section. But you’re going to have to dig a little to find it.

[@midwestreefer2902]

My chaeto is growing like weeds with my tank getting Dino’s and nutrients bottoming out. While I don’t actually know it’s not something that’s affected me personally

[@TheChemisch]

my advice is when you can't maintain your nutrients with just CuC, filter media and a protein skimmer. I don't run a fuge and my nutrients never get high, CuC (primarily tang) eats all the algae that grows in the tank. I wouldn't consider chaeto unless I doubled my livestock. If you are slowly running into nutrient problems or have a smaller tank get a small algae scrubber.

[@BRStv]

Really well said @Dusk194 😁

[@midwestreefer2902]

But my refugium is working too good. I’m struggling keeping nutrients in the tank. Which is why I’m battling with Dino’s

[@dusk1947]

Dino's are a pain, sorry to hear you're battling them. I had a nasty outbreak myself last year. I chose to reset my tank, and cycle the rocks for an extended period in the dark to correct it. However, if you have free-floating dino's, a UV sterilizer normally corrects it. If not, here is some "general" guidance which may help. I don't know your tank, so I'm going to talk in generalities; hopefully some of it is helpful: Everyone seems to advise growing a giant mass of macro algae, but rather the amount of algae you need to grow is in relation to how much you feed and how many other forms of filtration are on the system. Fewer fish and less food, means you need a smaller algae crop. Skimmer and rollers/sock (used correctly) will also mean you need to reduce the amount of algae needed to adsorb excess nutrients from the water. Try turning down the photo-period over the refugium, and reducing the amount of macro algae growing in your refugium (harvest some of it out), if you want to increase the amount of free nutrients. But that may not help all that much with Dino's. Most Dinoflagellate are a form of phytoplankton. Thus they grow from nutrients and light the same as your macro algae or diatoms. Hitting 0, 0 does not actually cause an outbreak. That's understandable conjecture by the community. But I've yet to see any study proving that. There is some evidence to suggest an imbalance of N to P, with one of them at 0, may trigger different types of algal blooms. Specifically, scientific studies show that Dino blooms are complex to understand, but may be caused by excess nutrients rather than fewer. Their explosive growth is what leaves the tank at 0, 0. You will stay at 0, 0 because the dino's are also consuming any and all available nutrients in the system, even before some of it can be consumed by your refugium. Here's a good source exploring it: Gong, W., Browne, J., Hall, N. et al. Molecular insights into a dinoflagellate bloom. ISME J 11, 439-452 (2017). So, Hobbyist's try to drive up their nutrients (mostly N & P), as a way to foster biodiversity and directly compete with the dino's. Because all the micro fauna is competing for the same fixed amount of nutrients in your closed system; the theory is that if you get competition to thrive, it will "battle" or compete with your dino outbreak. But hitting 0, 0 isn't helping the Dino's. It is however, hurting dino's and any chance at getting other competition to thrive. UV (if it's free floating) and reducing the displays lighting period, are the two methods which can help. In addition to trying to boost nutrients. Just know, if nutrients go up, you are feeding the dino's as much as the competition your trying to foster. (which is why reducing light or using UV are arguably better methods). But, hobbyist's have had success (long term) with all three methods. Our aquariums are to diverse and different, with to many varying species and bioloads; thus your miles may vary. And experimentation is required. Best of luck with your outbreak and you refugium :)

[@TheChemisch]

Yup, that was my first tank, chaeto constantly struggling ended up getting dinos. Fighting the dinos nutrients shot up and ended up with a tank of gha that choked everything out in only a few days. Chaeto doesn't really work unless you have a lot of nutrients going into the tank and the tanks pretty established. Get that chaeto out. pick yourself up some doctor tims waste away and refresh and a whole new bucket of salt. follow doctor tims dino instructions and follow that up with water changes every other day. Turkey baster twice a day. keep dosing waste away and refresh. Once it looks gone continue for two weeks. Don't take it lightly. I mean i'm ultimately thankful for dinos because that was the push I needed to buy my new system lol.

[@ariumusa]

i put chaeto in a plastic fish bowl and placed it on a window sill with full morning sun, no water filtration, heater or movement or anything. It grew and the pods in it too. that tank died when winter came and outside temps dropped so it could not sustain live in it anymore.

[@BRStv]

Sorry to hear about the tank crash 😢

[@Trihope]

I’m curious. In doing research, I see a lot of people say it’s hard to grow chaeto while others say it’s easy. I’ve seen people with the best lights and set up day they could keep it alive. Why is that?

[@BRStv]

A lot of different factors at play. In some cases, it could be due to nutrient levels. Another possibility would be lack of trace elements that commonly get used by Chaeto for growth. Lastly, a lot of reefers over light their refugiums, which can lead to chaeto death as well.

[@garysteinert8040]

What about a mini reef, say an EVO 13.5?

[@miguelo566]

I have one in mine and it works too well. I might have to dose nitrates.

[@cmoore806]

When i had the same tank I put chaeto in the middle sump chamber with a stick on refugium light on the back. The light was an innovative marine brand grow light and wasn’t cheap ($76 currently on Amazon). Cheaper lights are available but they’re too big and or too powerful. Eventually I decided to upgrade to a 40 gallon tank with a sump below so I could more easily do these things without the size challenges of a nano.

[@kornelart3122]

"Congrats to everyone who is early and regards this comment"