A retrospective of After The Flash and The Future of ATF

[@ChadTheCreator]

Howdy Mushreem, just thought I'd offer my in-depth response to your video. It's quite long, my apologies in advance. Firstly, let me say this video is the best ATF critique video I've probably ever seen so far. It is well-segmented/organized, has great voice work + sounds, is a great length for getting everything across you wanted to say, and above all it explains your thoughts and feelings in a concise manner that foregoes much of the immature complain-y features I've felt some other videos have had. Your takes in this video are pretty back-end development & RP engagement-oriented and that is rare. For example, you call attention to the over-detailing of certain spaces (I go into that below) which is an eye for development you don't see often. You also did much research in the way of making sure you weren't just talking from a completely uninformed standpoint that many others who make these kinds of videos do - for example my explanation on the music copyright issues which you noted in the video. Your assessments on the core pros/cons of each ATF down to ATF1 are also more accurate to reality than other takes I've seen. At many points in this video you call attention to what you feel is an issue and never say anything like "this was a stupid decision and we need to go back to thing X" - instead you say "I feel this was a bad decision for reason Y and instead things A, B, and/or C should be done and here's why...". I even feel like I learned a thing or two along the way listening. Every even-numbered ATF game is where I throw the guide rails off and try experimenting with things. It (so far) has always meant that the game is less popular and ends up being quite niche, but I love each of them despite their flaws and I always take the hard lessons learned from them to make the following odd-numbered game even better. If I had to summarize my feelings on ATF8 - it has been one giant exercise in misestimation. Underestimation in how long features/content will take to create and overestimation on the quality of development and in-game experience when I give the community more freedoms. Underestimation is a large one. When ATF7 came out, it had barely any features - you couldn't even save your character. But coming off the tail of ATF6, there were barely any expectations for the game - so when it went above and beyond with things like the Prop Placer and better customization - the game was perceived as fantastic. But coming off the tail of ATF7 - a game with 3 years of development - ATF8 had to undergo rapid development since we were starting from zero lines of code and a baseplate. In my head I was essentially recoding ATF7 so it would take maybe 6 months since I already knew what I was doing - but in reality I was adding so many new features that I hit many roadblocks and it ended up taking more like 18 to 24 months. And since I am the one leading the overarching story in every game, and my time has been spent trying to get ATF8 up to speed, ATF8's story had a colossal delay versus prior games where the systems were already in place and I could run the story almost from day 1. Overestimation in development is one of the big ones too. In ATF1-5 I built the entire map myself. In ATF6 I built around 75%, ATF7 15%, and ATF8 somewhere below 5% - as my time has all gone into systems. As a result of the rush and my absence in the build process for early ATF8, each developer was working relatively detached with their own creative ideas (including me) and concepts of what detail levels should be, with little to no oversight for the sake of theme, aesthetic, and quality cohesion. We're still trying to fix this flawed early period. Overestimation goes in the direction of RP as well however - when given a lore outline and extra customization/RP freedoms - the outcome was not necessarily a less stuffy/restricting experience, but more like a less cohesive and hodgepodge feel to the game. Due to the previous freedoms in rules and customization, you are smacked in the face in public servers by everyone's exact inspirations: cyberpunk, warhammer, etc. The game was never meant to feel cyberpunk, it was just meant to have some futuristic elements that I felt were still grounded in reality. My intention was to make the future feel mundane and real - AI existing only to do work, technology progressing by military application first resulting in more brutal warfare, microfusion being as mundane as a AA battery, etc. But the community continued to take their cyberpunk love and cram it into my realist futurism. For the longest time I thought it must be a due to our customization system - but with this video I feel I have learned that the new timeline may actually be the cause. Due to the existence in-lore of stuff like commonly-available microfusion, energy weapons, quantum computers, sentient droids, etc - I think people have taken it upon themselves to indulge in more aesthetically far-fetched theming than I intended, whereas in a timeline where technology 'stops advancing' within the next 10 to 20 years puts a hard lock on what crazy tech people can toss onto themselves. When it comes time for ATF9, I will need to do a deep assessment of whether ATF8's timeline should continue or if it will become a theme in ATF that every numbered-game divisible by 4 has its own whacky one-off lore. The 2032 timeline will never be returning as it was because I wrote it when I was 16 and it shows - it makes very little sense. If I do another 2032-like timeline, it would probably be more like a "2045 timeline" (the same time gap between 2011 to 2032 as 2024 is to 2045.) Another major issue is that I intended for the 'unions' to be much more ragtag than they appear in RP, but in many instances it feels like it's the reconstruction era like Deep Six. I think the problem here is simply establishing that unions exist and not just letting the wasteland remain an un-unified place for the time. The idea of the next ATF game taking place in the type of classic dry/hot/sandy-type wasteland like ATF1, 2, 3, 5, and 7 - is already a done deal. The winter wasteland is doable, but it requires much more care and cohesion than we've taken with 8. How this all contributes to immersion in your explanation has given me a lot to think about. Of course I must accept any decision I make on this front will have its vocal dissenters. Some smaller things on this video for now. The music being a stark contrast to the landscape is something I intended. It feeling like a mismatch with no rhyme or reason is not my intention, so I may have messed up in some regard, but I was intending for the wasteland to feel hopelessly violent and hostile but turning on your radio reminds you that humans still exist and as long as they do, they will sing about their emotions - making upbeat songs even in bad places. Perhaps the mismatch here is that the wasteland isn't quite desolate/unpopulated enough so that feeling is never fully realized. As for setting, I felt Lake Erie is a wonderfully haunting place to put an ATF game - Ohio just made the most sense as the state to me because I wanted to do one of the islands there, though we could have easily done nearby states or Canada I suppose. In terms of map detail, I agree that less detail and a more stylistic approach is a good one - it gives us more wiggle room for future content and rids us of potential lag while not sacrificing all that much detail. Since computer technology gets faster over time, it might just be a simple matter of NOT advancing the detail level for a game or two and consolidating outliers rather than actually simplifying the style, but we'll see. One last thing I still don't quite understand is what people like about RAD-X over Eldritchism other than nostalgia coloring peoples' opinions. I've heard you explain some reasoning but if you have a more in-depth pros/cons takedown then I would be interested in hearing it. Anyway - stellar video. I hope to hear/see more from you in the future! Safe travels, wastelander.

[@jbomb11]

I will be happily reading mosta dat

[@eagle5547]

I don't necessarily believe people love the RADX purely over nostalgia but over the fact they were more terrifying than animalistic monsters, a horde of green and yellow and red monsters coming to infect you and take over towns and city's and spread biomass and disease just felt scarier than a big evil animal climbing through a building. It also led to more interesting characters being able to develop with other mutants and socialize with actual communication than again compared to the animalistic solo nature eldritch mutants provide. I agree with his points in the video why don't you try and mix the two together? Still a society based around spreading a disease but maybe has that creative freedom in character customization that eldritch mutants has the further they go down the strains.

[@KermittingWarcrimes]

My issue I find with eldritches, less so now that more has been put towards limitation, is both something he said, that being people RP mostly docile, annoying guppies or docile humanoid monsters, and the limitation they have (no clue if that has been removed or not) to being around their own kind of people in general. With mutants from the old lore, they could choose to be around people or not without attacking, or they were viscous, blood-thirsty killers that simply didn't know they were as they had become feral. These are just my opinion, if you think I messed up something, just reply or whatnot and tell me.

[@mushreemman]

​@@eagle5547 @ChadTheCreator I think you summed it up pretty well. Eldritch RP is usually loner RP and actually almost has MORE of an incentive to CRP because they don't' form societies to rp with eachother like RAD-X does. While I can't deny that RAD-X was one of the worst CRP sources in 7, if crp was discouraged, RAD-X (or a similar infectious mutant faction) could be one of the most interesting and thought provoking factions in the game. As well as this, the idea of them being able to spread disease to increase their numbers amped their fear factor up to 11, as well as cures being rare and expensive. As well as this, the progression of stage to stage, showing the degradation of the host's mental state as mutations furthered was a really fascinating and interesting opportunity for RP. If eldritch had more of an incentive to group up and form societies, and were more of an ever prevalent threat to the region as a COLLECIVE, I think it would be more fitting and interesting to the setting. However, I do appreciate the customization that comes with eldritch mutants, and how you're basically able to create any mutant (within reason) to your hearts content. As eagle said, I think in the next installment, whenever it may be, should be a mix of both that organization and fear factor of the RAD-X disease or something like it (while their crp value is kept under wraps by mods and the community, and also like a "perm to infect" so you can choose if you really want to be infected or not), and the eldritch customization freedom. More than raiders and harsh weather, disease is the largest killer in a post apocalyptic wasteland, but many few people actually willingly rp having a normal disease, so to have it personified in the form of mutants is a perfect way to thematically intertwine a very real element of the apocalypse into RP.

[@mushreemman]

Also thank you for the response, this really opened my eyes to your stance on a new game. A 2045-2050 timeline would be good, and I do like that "realistic" near future aesthetic that you're speaking of. I think people got the wrong idea when they saw "2071", and ATF8 just happened to be released post-cyberpunk craze. I'm looking forward to the sandy/scorched wasteland aesthetic which basically defines a good 75% of all nuclear war stories. It just fits that wasteland aesthetic more than any other in my opinion. About the soundtrack, a stark contrast is good because it shows that people still cling to the old world whenever they can, my only issue was that the Wintertide soundtrack just didn't sound garbled and aged as much as previous games to hint at the passage of time. Especially in Wintertide's case, as it is one of the farthest games from the initial war point. I personally liked Overcast's atmospheric, grim soundtrack the best out of all of it. It set the mood of the entire game for me. I think that music is one of the leading factors in how people perceive a world and it's tone, more than a lot of things, sometimes even more than the actual worldbuilding of the game. Sort of like "show don't tell" if you look at it from a writer's perspective. Looking forward to whatever you guys make for the next game, or even what you guys do with Sunrise City and the remainder of Wintertide. I don't really hate Wintertide, I did for a time but I was younger and had a fierce case of "Nostalgia-itis" that plagues a lot of the older community. I actually really appreciate all the risks ATF8 made to try and see if something new would work. a good amount of people I spoke to during it's time criticized ATF7 for just going back to the "typical roots" of ATF, or something like that, and no change for the better would ever be made without risky choices. A lot of people have found fun in it, and I fully support that and their enjoyment, just as I enjoyed mirage and overcast when I was younger. It's not really the ATF game for me, but I've come to accept that and find fun in it with friends, not worrying too much about it and just making goofy characters and going on goofy adventures. I'm very hopeful for ATF9, as I think that everyone has learned a lot, not just from Wintertide, but every ATF game, and the lessons learned will translate over into 9 smoothly. My Kingfisher Icepop addiction still rages on... Wish you and the dev team nothing but the best. -Mushreemman.

[@spawn2775]

I started ATF in 2018 with Mirage. I made some great friends and my main character (although he was extremely inconistent, with his backstory changing everytime I loaded into the game), was extremely fun to use. It was the first time I had played an RP game and really got into it. Now, after 5 years of playing Mirage, I just don't have the groove to get into Wintertide. It feels so disconnected to what I used to know ATF as. Yeah the snow is cool, but it doesn't have the same charm as the desert wasteland. The base that was overran by mutants, the new base that everyone had to transfer too, it seemed like it was one big story that everyone made together. Then, I load into Wintertide and I see two people asking a 10 foot monster "whats your weakspot". I miss the feeling that I could walk up to someone, say 'Hey can i join you guys?' and get a yes. Now it seems everyone's so concrete and concluded with their RPs that they hate the idea of anyone joining. And I so desperately want to get back into it, but the 20 gamepasses that are available turn me away so much. But hey, my first character was someone in knight armor and marine armor, so what do I know.

[@santiagomoreno8640]

TBH couldn't agree more, I joined in mirage too, and this was the community that heloed me develop my English, and even to this day I reminisce 'bout those days, when the community was accepting enough that somoene with such bokren english that spelt cookie as "Kokie" was amazing, yet when I try to RP in wintertide, everythings so grimmey, set in stone, I cannot agree more on the fact that joining people's rp's is so hard now. Besides, since I've never been, and will never be a good modeler(?) my characters always look out of place.

[@abel6298]

Read your bible! (KJV, preferably) ❤

[@Jolt-se2gc]

𝕀'𝕕 𝕤𝕒𝕪 𝕨𝕒𝕚𝕥 𝕗𝕠𝕣 𝔸𝕋𝔽 𝟡 𝕋𝕙𝕖𝕟 𝕚𝕗 𝕪𝕠𝕦 𝕨𝕒𝕟𝕥 𝕒𝕟𝕠𝕥𝕙𝕖𝕣 𝕕𝕖𝕤𝕖𝕣𝕥. 𝕀 𝕞𝕚𝕤𝕤 𝕚𝕥

[@KcinMaharg]

Mirage will always be my favorite. Locations are great, super memorable and creative stuff. I loved the weapons, factions, and all the mutants. Gave a bunch of room for creativity, but still had restrictions enough to make sense. My favorite.

[@bubbleproductions1997]

Imagine you turn on the radio in ATF8 and you hear WAP

[@hunterprt1274]

I’m pretty sure I heard a pop song expect its like a swing remix?

[@mushreemman]

@@hunterprt1274 it’s called postmodern jukebox, if you search up ATF radio you’ll find all of them

[@sadpenguisapengu]

​​@@mushreemman whats that song that goes ''everytime i sleep i struggle"?

[@Sahbi7527]

@@sadpenguisapengu Route around by rebelution

[@radioactivedoctor]

That song will probably be a classic in the future, like it’s being played in a fancy Italian resteraunt 😂

[@RobertMaximus09]

I think that a great way to fix the apocalypse not feeling like an apocalypse problem could be to set next games earlier in the new timeline, during the radstorm era and the early days of the post-Flash world.

[@EngyneMac]

36:49 this is the ATF cycle. Current mainline ATF game reaches 1-2 years of life, players already get tired of the setting and want a return to the previous game. "The desert setting is overused, imagine if we returned to a winter setting." "The Winter Setting is overused, imagine if we returned to a desert setting."

[@abel6298]

Read your bible! (KJV, preferably) ❤

[@blaznaesthetics7231]

PLEASE CHAD!!! ANOTHER ATF 6 STYLE ENVIROMENT AND MY LIFE WILL BE YOURS!!!!!!!

[@MultiYoshiman]

i played atf a lot as a kid, havent in several years. its interesting to see how things have changed so much, all of the discord faction stuff seems like a headache.

[@Cesar_Salad26]

It is a headache, I wish it was simpler 🫤

[@crypt1c122]

Very high quality video with points I agree with, especially the idea that in Mirage people were interested in what happened in the lore (The war, etc), when wintertide characters act like they completely disregard it, I also really liked rad X as it gave something to mutants that you would be afraid of (RAD -X) and the idea that you can get infected by a mutant and random people would rp taking you to craterview so that you could seek help, cooperation in wintertide that is far less frequent.

[@regressful]

This is the best perspective and in debt detail video I have seen about the state of wintertide and the entire series, you basically put everything I concerned about into words and it's amazing great video!

[@tennnek]

i tried replaying atf a couple days ago after years of absence and i was completely thrown off by the new lore. the points you made, highlighting both the positives and negatives of atf 8/new timeline reflect my views as well. either way, i hope that atf continues to thrive, and thanks for making this video!

[@baggyil]

didnt think i would finish this video but you made a lot of really great points in here. in the current surge of atf retrospective type videos, this one stands out. good shit

[@gasmasksammy]

I think really the biggest fumble with ATF 8 was the new timeline. It was pretty much the biggest thing that made me disenfranchised with the game. Great video!

[@mushreemman]

@@gasmasksammy Holy shit Sammy I remember watching your vids a few years back. Yeah the new timeline really ruptured the community even more than D6 did. The 2045 timeline sounds more reasonable, but I’m still very iffy about it.

[@gasmasksammy]

@@mushreemman definitely - I loved how the OG lore of ATF felt similar to fallout, yet had enough differences to really distinguish it from Fallout. Personally I think my main complaint was the complete and utter mismanagement of the RAD-X lore in the late days of Mirage and its scrapping in ATF 8. Thanks for making this stellar video, its really reliving to hear that I was not alone in my complaints of ATF.

[@Ellisgames]

Nice to see you're still around, sammy.

[@saerte9403]

after the flash 8 is just way too ambitious and under delivers on everything. for every interesting and indepth system ingame, it will have 5 different bugs that are never patched

[@ratsukitheblunderingbuffon]

I do agree with a lot of the points in this video, i think you did a pretty good job at nailing the points the community has about the game and it's current direction, also really good video quality. One little small thing i disagree is just the 'kick players that spend too much time in the rigmaker' thingy, as someone that spent a good ammount of time making rigs for my characters, sometimes it just happens to take time, and i would hate to have an hour worth of work gone because the game decided i took too long. Other than that, i agree with basically all the points you said, and i do think it would be greater to see more variety in ATF, maybe other countries other than America and such, i'd love to see an ATF game in the South Americas, or a game set in Europe or even Australia, it would just spice up the series with the variety that i think is kinda lacking at the moment.

[@flashstormer1353]

I agree with everything in this video, it’s well written, edited and is just a general good watch I’ve been playing ATF since about 2016/2017 but I’ve decided to completely leave ATF as of recent due to the community and general boredom I’ve gained from the game. If an official ATF game or fan game put into place the attributes you’ve pointed out (and if the community has gotten way less ass kissy and more supportive) I might consider playing it but as of now I’ve completely quit ATF Anyways thanks for providing a great video essay! Hope to see your content grow and expand in the future!

[@ENCRYPTEDENCRYPTED209]

I sat down and watched a 50 minute video essay about ATF. Your points were all VERY good. I overall agree with this on a heavy scale. One thing I believe Chad and overall the Managers will decide is to not go back to the old timeline. While just about half the community does want to go back to the old timeline, it just likely will not happen. I believe this has been stated before, yet it could change (which I think it probably will not). Overall, you have made great points and I feel like Chad and the Managers/Developers could likely take inspiration from this. Awesome video, dude.

[@jacksonbarkerthebluehairedfox]

12:12 A quick videomaking tip / critique, I'd recommend avoiding music with lyrics in the background as your speaking. It makes it a bit difficult to pay attention to what your saying over the song's lyrics. It's also the reason why in video essays even if the song has lyrics when they introduce the segment, the lyrics fade away while the narrator is speaking.

[@holden3929]

I am by no means a long term ATF player only joined during the early days of mirage in 2018 and played then on until about 2022, this retrospective was very constructive and put a lot of the gripes I had with wintertide but couldn't put into terms with the decline in the less gritty atmosphere and less serious roleplay tone even if it did do a semi decent job at rooting out the combat fest roleplay that mirage bred, it really did leave a lot to be desired especially when it came out after such a good game like overcast. When I clicked on this video I was fully expecting it to be a terrible fifty minutes of some jaded mirage CRPer complaining about how the game has changed, but I pleasantly had my expectations surpassed this actually feels like it was made out of passion from a place of enjoyment in the franchise while not cutting any slack on pointing out its problems, genuinely amazing video given the other content centered around the game on youtube banger video man.

[@snowman-man6096]

Also beautiful video btw can’t wait to see what your projects become

[@thegarbageman8685]

Found your vid through Flashstorm discord, very nice

[@oliyes406]

I ain’t even gonna lie those mech rigs were sick asf🔥

[@bravobang168]

10:13 no shot Wireframe made it into the video let’s goooo 😭😭😭

[@mikuenthusiast]

that little bit about setting an atf game in louisiana just set me off- it'd be the game nobody knew they needed until they had it :00

[@Jahaxbar]

i do not like the winter aspect, may be just because i do genuinely live in Ohio and when i play a game and see snow it just makes me feel kinda sad, however summer rain is my way to get away from the winter aspect, and to be honest the best time i have had on this game was last summer. i want a place like Arizona or California, hell even Nevada with a new prop placer so people can make 'Vegas 2.' its probably because my favorite game is fallout new Vegas and my favorite atf game is Mirage and that is why i want it. the game is fantastic and i wont stop playing it for a while but i do hope they do a mirage remake (my oc now is based off of one i had in mirage, and assuming they would use the same lore as atf 8, it would all just work out)

[@TheInsanityFox]

I was recommended this 2 years after I played ATF, guess youtube wanted to bring back memories.

[@norffcdoomer1393]

ATF 5 was my first actual role play experience. Never really made myself known besides becoming MR in Sandsharks and the USCPF during this era. Loved the setting and atmosphere, but the community was…. Somewhat horrific in some deeper areas. Skype GroupChats, F-ERPers, just general toxicity. Glad I kept myself out of any limelight.

[@Goodtypeoffbocchi]

For the new factions area the voyagers is basically just that, despite being pirates they do advocate for anarchism and freedom

[@redbrickbattler56]

This video is amazing! No just whining or just complaining!

[@Yeng2104]

I think this is a great analysis and retrospective dive, i have no say since i was only around for ATF: Rain or 5, then came back to ATF: Mirage and now ATF: Wintertide. In my opinion, I like wintertide, i dont think Wintertide is bad but i do occasionally get frame drops. Besides that, im mostly okay with it, going as far as thinking up of a roblox pilot based around wintertide (currently still thinking about it as i already have a couple of things in mind) but i would like to see old things to not alienate old ATF players that didnt know the lore. You also earned a new sub (me).

[@EngyneMac]

8:38 Back when the old timeline was still used i was intrigued by the ATF lore and wanted to know more about it but never took a deep enough dive. I was kinda sitting at the fence of an open gate. Also back then i remember most people made fun of how complex it was or something. It would be cool if someone did a summary of the Original timeline and the stories of the games.

[@Royallucasdowling]

15:15 yeah not only do they have no inventive to group together (I don’t know if it’s changed now) they used to threaten to ban you and your buddies if 3 or more eldies worked together

[@joeman1437]

Coming from someone whos been around since the twilight of ATF 3, id say you hit the nail on the head. Your video shed light on what I would consider my own personal gripes and praises to be, and in a well informed manner that both old and new players can understand quite well. Marvelous work, well done!

[@combine_2912]

hey, i respect your oppinion, but here's what i think Wintertide is, basically an ALT timeline set in the more sni-fi sense of naritive but trying to keep with the older games, cause Wintertide is able to have the older factions inthe game from what i can tell due to people creating custom factions, i wish you well Mushreem

[@cookiez_ad]

very well spoken i do disagree on certain parts myself, mostly on developer and lorewriting/worldbuilding perspective. I feel like you had great points and good idea for timeline fixes for ATF8 and ATF9 (specifically on the part where people argue about seals existing), specifically on the "A return to 2032" section. your a very well spoken guy, i cant wait to see more content and your views on ATF and future games great views on atf very awesome man

[@hunterprt1274]

I think an ATF russia would be interesting if it didn’t use the “Soviet Aesthetic”, instead parts of Russia go back to diffrent eras of Russia like a faction who replicate the Cossacks of old, a tribal warrior faction based off of the Mongolian and Native Russian culture, lore surrounding Russian folkore, stuff like that

[@monkey4402]

I can't tell you man. Everyone outside of the RP community hates Postmodern Jukebox, but I listen to it all the time. I got their merch and stuff and I think they're really cool.

[@UndertaleisGoated512]

Very good points, i saw this within Community Submissions. I've been playing After the Flash since Mirage, and coming from y'know, a Mirage person. I am quite shocked to see how far the game developed. From Overcast, to Wintertide. I just wish i can see that same Fallout/Dingy ripoff element again. Though with the revamps, i hope the game gets a nice future, and maybe evolves to fix its still yet crumbling atmosphere that is the current Game. Disregarding it, i still love the video style and quality.

[@IanFCFD2008]

For me personally it has to be tidewater and I think the new tidewater the People's Republic of tidewater definitely looks way better from the original tidewater

[@HowieDewitt535]

I came to the game in ATF Mirage and Mirage is the only one of the game I think I will ever enjoy, I have grown out of the game. Mirage was the only roleplay game I have ever played and liked and it will remain the only one I played and liked. I loved it but no other roleplay game has been able to captivate me quite like it, maybe it's age or simply that I had played it to death; whatever the reason, I don't like any other roleplay game so to hear you say to return to the old timeline makes me happy.

[@bob1152]

ATF: Osaka was my first and Mirage was my last. These games and its radio soundtrack were a huge part of my childhood.

[@facer3609]

I was in the Cascadian Frontier as well, and that faction made me go into deep research about Fauna in Oregon (I was a herbalist) and some of the philosophical elements. The TCF was my favourite faction experience in all of ATF, and I still look fondly back on my memories of it. It’s always nice to meet another Cascadian 🫡

[@98amv]

Nearly impossible to set someone on a quest with a trap or something cuz they just meta game their way into being super skeptical about it and then randomly shooting me (I roleplay as a greedy merchant/quest giver)

[@jbomb11]

As someone who played mostly as a droid I only would use them in a way with “modern” weapons because I hated the towering character that came with laser guns because I loved the idea of being a robot in a seemingly dead world but then I see a liberty prime looking character and I give up But all together great video!

[@USCPF859]

Good quality video and I believe you constructed it brilliantly with the emphasis on improvement rather than needless chastising. I have one comment, according to sources in the community (Chad himself at some stage) ATF9 will take place in San Francisco, if this will stay true is up to chad’s choice.

[@quicke5486]

I'll mention on that RAD-X part, there was a deep connection between them and the SEALs and the USCPF. There was ACTUAL Marauder SEALs, an unknown threat that was hunted by the USCPFs SOF, those 'CIA Agents', then you got Archie who was just an enslaved RAD-8B. It was a VERY interesting small story, especially when my Descendant had his SEAL Suit stolen by two Marauder SEALs. Note: For SEALs, I assume you know, but they are individuals not a united faction but the issue was the severe rule block on how your OC can act - or side with. Fan-Facs couldnt have a SEAL side with them based off their ideas or even the CDF which made no sense. Then you got the fact the USCPF were always hit or miss. Your argument over the SEAL community went well for 6.5 as the USCPF went hard to forcefully conscript them. The SEAL community was certainty nice, acting in their own corner but also Mercenaries.

[@jacksonbarkerthebluehairedfox]

Honestly for me, I'd actually love to see a Deep Six remake with the quality of Wintertide in terms of model quality and character customization, along with the timed events that happened on certain dates such as the bombing runs on Southside and the destroyed buildings being patched up with scrap days later. For me I really liked the setting of humanity having moved past barely scraping by and beginning to properly rebuild the world to what is once was, but warfare and conflict hinder their progress.

[@Golfjong]

36:35 I remember when Chad wanted atf 8 to take place in Antarctica

[@mushreemman]

I think that was a joke but I remember that too yeah lmao.

[@MerkONeil]

While I really dont agree or flow with a good chunk of the opinions and points made in this video, It wouldn't be too far fetched to call ATF8 the "Fallout 3" of the ATF Series. It has its undeniable pros with how the game itself has evolved from a development standpoint (Models, map making, system improvements, the Rig system, etc). But at the same time it has a lot of noticeable snags compared to the prior games that degrades the world's immersion and tone. This is ignoring past issues since resolved (Rule 2/3, various eldritch reworks, the story not starting at all, etc). Though I'm remaining hopeful that we can steer off of this course we're on now and make ATF8's world far stronger than it is now. And if not, take lessons from this game to potentially make the "New Vegas" of the ATF Series

[@MerkONeil]

prior comment i since deleted, you can give it a read if you want (Below are excerpts/points made that I wanted to respond to) "It just doesnt feel right... I can talk about this w/ some depth but this new stuff? Psh I cant remember it at all" The game is still being built, why are you bashing this new attempt for not being as "in depth" as the other games because we havent moved past Ohio beyond the occasional look toward States/Unions beyond ATF8's location. "immersion has been floundered" Fair, Though That's mostly fixed at this point following the retraction of Rules 2/3. There will definitely be outliers in RP servers or just people doing whatever they want, but this is not exclusive to ATF8 at all. However, ATF8's advanced Rig system and Prop Building system make this more noticeable with how much creative freedom both grant in terms of what can be made. (Though I do agree Cyberpunk elements and other unfitting elements could def be toned down.. Part of the immersion honestly fails w/ how the map has barely been ruined at all until recently.) Still watching ATM so I'll update this as I progress (probably). "RADX > Eldritch Mutants, too boring" I partially agree, though I dont think Biomass completely mops the floor w/ Eldritches. I feel its more nuanced than that simple determination w/ both havomg their own unique strengths, weaknesses, and potentials for improvement. RADX Thrives as a threat and as a story telling device in the Harsh Post-Apocolyptic Landscape, though can struggle w/ character creation and limitation (though part of this can be attributed to the far stricter rules from the time). Eldritches are a phenomenal creative outlet for people to create horrors beyond comprehension rather than being tied to a specific strand of abilities or tacticts they can use, but that extra freedom granted (especially w/ the rigging system) has lead to some subpar results or outright outlandish creations at times. And sadly within the lore currently, they're rather weak as a threat beyond 3rd Stasis Eldritches and kinda just exist. Despite all of this though, a case can be made for both either being better or worse. Eldritches currently have greater freedom and an oppritunity to further embolden their threatfulness:tm: w/ further rewrites or adjustments. RADX is undeniably stronger and better established w/ the past decade it has sat on , but it lacks any official usage currently beyond Spinoffs and is restrained by dated attributes that could easily be lifted to grant it a bit more freedom to really contest w/ Eldritches. "Unfitting Guns in game, why they here if super far in future" ...Yeah thats an issue, its really weird we see replicas of those firearms still existing. Though part of that I feel could be fixed by making them act more like patchwork creations "The tone is super weird and doesnt fit as well as prior games" I agree, the tone compared to other past ATF Games is completely strange and feels a bit mismatched compared to some of the more emboldened elements the community has chosen to push. Though part of this I feel is a result of The Rule 2/3 issue, some of it can undoubtedly be found in the current writing and lore of the game. On another note, I absolutely love that connection made between the slowly degrading tunes of the old world vs the decayed and gritty feel of ATF7, going hand in hand to further push the immersion and tone of the game. --- other jargin soup w/ my thoughts on some of the early points made. Lets compare a game thats still in development with a fresh timeline and all (With tons of room to make new stuff ) vs a decade old timeline filled with tons of caked on lore that cant be retroactively removed w/o people screaming "RIGGED AGAINST USCPF/CDF, HORRIBLE GARBAGE, GO BACK NOW". Lets bash personal taste and opinion against your owns to prove that The prior games are better than the current one.

[@Ending681]

@@MerkONeiluh the argument of eldritches “allowing you to be horrors beyond your comprehension” is uh kind of wrong, since we have clear size limitations and rigs that would be too far fetched would not be possible ic once put under scrutiny as you’d have to consider what would physically be able to survive. It’s not really much of a difference, just slight alterations but still do the same core thing. A gar can look like an anglerfish but it’ll still only do what any other gar would be doing, lurking and trying to drown unsuspecting humans. (That’s if anyone ever goes near the water which is unlikely considering the hotspots are far inland.) for me RAD-X was one of the best parts of after the flash and I had some of the most fun with the game playing and maining mutants. I wasn’t one of the people doing it just to make throwaway crp characters but because I enjoyed the simplicity and variety of rad-X mutations. I did like the idea of aquatic mutants introduced in wintertide but that really does not change the fact that wintertides mutant rp is literally just animal rp and you have to be a loner in most cases. All they did was add: a small little aquatic mutant that’s skittish and is basically a joke character in most instances, a worse marauder, a worse crusher, a mutant that physically is incapable of doing what it’s adapted to do simply because the players don’t usually bother with locations near the water. I don’t exactly mean to sound like i hate them, I just think they’re inferior and also just forgettable. Literally almost any rad-X stage was memorable and they were an active threat that was entertaining to roleplay as and also fight against with friends (assuming they weren’t crp sweats but eldritch mutants are literally loners most of the time and can ONLY crp due to that.) rad-x was simply more fun due to being able to form hordes and groups with friends, But I’m not gonna bash on anyone for preferring the new wintertide mutants due to more freedom with the designs , but I don’t think that’s enough to warrant such a downgrade in terms of enjoyability.

[@RDOT_Lifts]

Mushreem cooked so fucking hard in this video worda my mother couldnt have said most of this better myself🔥🔥🔥

[@awoomp4314]

I only played pre-rain and I loved Sandstorm/Snowstorm, really sad to hear from the current players that the game has deteriorated :(

[@snowman-man6096]

i think bro might have convinced chad to add back the biomass/rad-x in a way

[@mushreemman]

@@snowman-man6096 Chat did I cook?

[@snowman-man6096]

@@mushreemmanI think bro indeed did cook, also beautiful video btw

[@sonofdoge5219]

Chad said he will not bring back the old timeline sadly. I dreamt of an ATF 8.5 game that would revisit the old lore but its very unlikely.

[@AfterTheFlash-BRAZIL]

This is the best video I found criticizing After The Flash and also offering suggestions, I won't deny it, the suggestions you gave for After The Flash 9 are very good, and it's also a shame that After The Flash 8 changed the lore, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a post-apocalyptic game, right? I really like After The Flash, and having a future like that would be a good choice.

[@Sindreas]

god the first game on here is so nostalgic

[@Gtdubs64]

ATF in my opinion had always been that (Unless you're apart of a faction) the lore was just a backdrop and what really made me love ATF was the roleplaying and character building between random survivors. I did think up this faction that was pacifist and they used jars filled with herbs to avoid fighting mutants though with the current state of ATF and how (Besides being ooc) CRP was always such a big thing about it, it wouldn't really fit in. Maybe I'll bring the idea back some day.

[@genericjuiceoutofcontext]

Most of the old music was also depressing themes and Vietnam era

[@beefromspce7823]

THE FRIDGE HAS FINALLY BEEN ADDED 24:50 LETS GO

[@mushreemman]

We won.

[@funnyturtle1147]

Maybe in the next atf game it could be in the great lakes region on the border with canada to include a part of it

[@Snake_eyesss]

I want the atf 7 style back in atf 9 I doubt it would happen but still. and I agree with bringing back 2032 because I hate the cyberpunk and neon feel. and with how much the other factions took you could collapse / push them out. and they should definitely bring back rad x with a new strain, well done. (I did hear a rumor atf 9 would be California so I hope the map is bigger!)

[@ThePawsketeer]

As a regionalist from Cali, I would love it if ATF 9 takes place in my state

[@Snake_eyesss]

i heard LA or San Francisco if it is cali@@ThePawsketeer

[@pooman5847]

im only half way into the video but i got to say, for the amount of buildings there are in the game their are only like 5 that you can access which absolutely blows. it would have been far better if all were accessible like in mirage.

[@plutoniumrocks]

I do not think ATF9 is gonna happen for a long time, which sucks because I want to be in the community and not jaded for it when it happens

[@VORTEXnoob]

I tried out your game. I'm going to be honest, if Chad and his team got to work from where you are now or maybe a bit later when the map is finished and a few things tweaked, it could turn out into an awesome game.

[@mushreemman]

I had a comment but I realized I completely misread yours and it made ZERO sense.

[@gelacticcamper7942]

*tap tap tap tap*Alaska *tap tap tap* Russia nevermind uhh ENGLAND wait someone's doing good on that shout out to the atf England dev in the tidal interactive

[@A-Rather-Dubious-Character]

I forgot the name but I started playing ATF with the... was it in Georgia? It was a snow-based map, basically. I loved the aesthetic that came with winter and such so I played that one religiously until Mirage came out. Point is, ATF has earned a special place in my heart for what it offered me as a young RPer and the lessons it taught me and helped me define *what* kind of RPer I am (me no like combat). I may not RP as much as I used to, let alone play much of anything on Roblox itself, but I hope that I can return to the series at certain intervals and recapture that whimsical fun I experienced by myself and with other players. This is more of a love letter to ATF rather than a response to your video, but damn it I couldn't help myself.

[@mushreemman]

Yes, it was in a fictionalized Chatham County, Georgia. Thanks for the comment, yeah Deep Winter is mostly unmatched in my opinion.

[@0BVH00D]

They basically went FOG FOG FOG FOG FOG and called it a day, as someone that grew up on atf, I def love 8, but eh, could be better

[@SuppressedSoldat]

We got a fridge because of this video so I guess that's that.

[@Sindreas]

i think letting players create factions ingame could work, like you and your friends can make a group of members, if its 5 ish members it would be a clan and anything above that would be a faction, what would help with this is that you would need confirmation from someone of the ATF team and there would be limitations of what it could be, and you couldn't claim any land that already belongs to a main faction, but i think for example in wintertide your clan/faction could set up a base somewhere in the city, i think that would work, then you can make alliances within factions, as long as you send in a request to the ATF team to stop "faction/clan" spam (let me know what you guys think), also i think RADX should exist alongside Eldritches, maybe having that mutants (become eldritches like normal) and then there are some RADX creatures that can only effect humans, maybe that could make Eldritch fighting RADX rp's because both want to be the "big bad creature" and then the RADX would try kill stasis mutants to avoid having to fight them when they are stronger meaning stasis mutants will have to try stay in groups to survive

[@TheEmps]

Agree with the mass majority of this but I will say I'm not entirely certain on the "Rogue USA Contingent" Trope anymore---as such has been done repeatedly in games like ATF-7 (17th SB Rebellion), ATF-7.5 (In the way of the Evergreen Pact) and other such things. Generally, I feel a "Rogue America" faction has already had it's time in the sun and returning to a more traditional "Military Unit connected to a wider whole which is trying to survive in this hostile environment" has been good for the game---even if the USRF is not my favorite (mainly because they have a goddamn identity crisis every twenty minutes and the recent NEU bullshit...) Generally, we've played out pretty much every which way in regard to a contingent of soldiers who aren't connected to a larger faction playing the ball-game for control over the American continent and I feel a return to that in a more stable way away from ATF7, ATF7.5 and even ATF8 (even if it got it closer...) Would be a good thing. I just want my 2001-2011 style counter insurgency LARP, alright? [But more seriously, it would be better for roleplay experience.] Beyond that, I'm not entirely sold on your idea in regard to ATF Mutants---I do *heavily* advocate for the renewal of RAD-X but something which did strike me about RAD-X as a faction is that the disease had consistent results. It had a more realistic, body horror feeling as a result as both you and your character knew what you could end up becoming in totality. Adding a winter tide style of rough guidelines wouldn't really work for that with RAD-X. However, I could see mutation away from RAD-X being similar, albeit less extreme than that of Wintertides---even adding the feature to a descendant renewal could work since they weren't results of the virus and are instead artificial creations. I agree that factions need more moral neutrality---I don't want another All Good CDF, I don't want another SLF, I don't want another Coyotes. Seeing a more imperialistic version of a CDF Militia going to bat against a USCPF contingent who---while providing aid to the populace is increasingly cracking down and becoming more and more authoritarian in the region could be interesting. Picking the better of both evils is cool, but more importantly they need to actually make the ideologies reasonable and present---getting people to seriously consider a factions motives is how you get immersive faction roleplay. Something the Coalition, Alumni, USRF and so on just fucking lack entirely. I would enjoy a return to the older styles of building more than anything, but I would like to see an inclusion of some minor scifi elements to represent the lore of a 2032/2045 styled timeline. Other than that, totally agree.

[@c26f]

skibidi toilet mr beast grimace banban 1 2 buckle my shoe gyatt rizz duke dennis ohio did you pray today pizza tower fanum tax

[@DemonEagle222]

Hey mushroom 🍄 ATF 8 revived the Biomass!!!!!

[@mushreemman]

@@DemonEagle222 Video probably coming about that.

[@pusheendalimitsofgeneva5816]

When it comes to the coverage of the US in ATF.. I would love to see something outside the US Like imagine an ATF game in the Balkans, where a lot of actual on-ground fighting might have taken place due to lots of NATO and ACMF borders crossing there, not to mention the already existing political chaos on top of the many nationalistic, religious, or ideological seperatist movements that could lead to lots of different factions with way different ideologies

[@The_Funniest_Cut]

Chad’s reason for not making an ATF game in foreign countries outside of ATF 2 in Osaka is due to “cultural appropriation” and bastardization of different cultures. I think it’s dumb, foreign ATF game would be cool lol

[@Pattila]

​@@The_Funniest_Cut easy fix: research

[@The_Funniest_Cut]

@@Pattila TRUE

[@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460]

I feel like this is true even now. Wintertide just feels incredibly bland and lifeless, with very little going on in terms of RP. I remember a comparison being made to the various factions within it and those in Fallout and I have to say it's on the MONEY. That's not even accounting for the sheer clumping that people do here and how the areas feel both too narrow and too spacious. Couple that with the factions in a vacuum not being that interesting and Ohio being pretty mediocre in terms of locations when compared to even Mirage, and you get a DISASTER like Wintertide.

[@SnarkyFinn]

They should make ATF 9 a (back in the past) so like based in the 1990 or 1980s you could even say that the cold war is how the bomb happend or something like that tell me what yall think in the comments.

[@mushreemman]

They did that for ATF4 (the war happens in the late 1960s.)

[@SnarkyFinn]

ohhhh mb ive only been playing since mirage i didnt know@@mushreemman

[@nfjkshfjwgeiwuy]

I fully agree with the points made here. Recently ive come back to ATF 8 and, while I do play it im more or less slowly beginning to turn away from the game. I tried originally to just put on rose tinted glasses and play the game but the problems just kept being quite prevalent, and it was super annoying to deal with. I also agree that the faction expereince is extremely supbar at best, with inner communities being pretty mediocre, on a level slightly above 7 but still not entirely. Immersion too, is something that I greatly miss from games like Deep winter, where I’d do a lot of NATO rp and I just loved the setting and the tone that it gave, while 8 rn mostly feels pretty much like you put it, fallout. As for the story tho I feel that since it started, its not entirely progressed very far atm, its felt pretty stagnant still tho I hope this changes. Apart from that pretty chill vid, and I hope when ATF 9 releases im not too jaded to give it a shot.

[@TheStorrman]

I find it extremely difficult to roleplay as 1. I don’t know how to use rigging 2. It’s unlike any roleplay game I’ve ever played

[@mushreemman]

It’s not too hard, just keep playing and you’ll get it. Watch some videos on rigging, if you have the time.

[@TheStorrman]

Honestly, I feel that the game as well as the fan base are too closed off for new players like me. I had given up on playing

[@King_Pitt]

i think chad is missing the point about adding more of what he likes instead of keeping something golden, but i think instead he is become like uzukee in yba

[@saber8156]

4:25 That's because Roblox is a CPU bottleneck, it consumes more CPU than GPU

[@Fird9e]

It would be interesting if their was a atf game about Spanish speaking countries like spain, mexico, or if you count a language that has Spanish words, Philippines

[@thatquietasianguy9582]

i’m very ignorant about the community roleplaying and the game itself I’ve been looking at it but it’s not really good on mobile I put it in a hold for a long time and it’s sucks but I just love the game of what it is it has some charms that I can’t find in any generic Roblox game and I hope I could just just understand and know something about this game

[@galladrox7766]

i got a idea for the setting for after the flash 9 instead of snow or overgrown maybe do something like a huuuuge burnt world kinda like 7 days to die's burnt forest or black ops 2 tranzit granted it would be hard to explain why place is constantly burning after all this time i just think it would be unique.

[@guy13677]

ATF 8 factions need applications that are harder than a fucking microsoft application.

[@zaydenperkins250]

Also add back my left 4 dead references! I need more food for my nerd brain!

[@GorbulonVI]

The reason Chad gave for moving ATF 8 out of Russia at 36:32 is honestly kind of baffling. Okay, so _what_ if people decide to roleplay as ex-Soviet soldiers/KGB/whatever? ATF has moderation staff - or at least, it's supposed to. That should make lore-breaking a non-issue, and certainly not enough of a problem to entirely abandon the idea of a Russian setting. Besides, not being set in Russia hasn't dissuaded anyone from doing so, just ask anyone who's played a game with the ACMF in them.

[@BenDover-k1e]

what song is at 26:09? it sounds like a pink floyd song but I can't figure out which one.

[@mushreemman]

@@BenDover-k1e Shine on You Crazy Diamond part 1.

[@kknub4766]

It'd be really nice to see another NATO appearance

[@rexross4847]

blastaway is pretty grounded honestly there's only a few things here and there that isn't grounded like those flesh mutants and the new cyberpunk jackets they added but other than those few things it seems pretty grounded with the mutants not being totally unrealistic and the factions seem like they would realistically exist in real life

[@fluffyseal2928]

W hotline Miami music

[@hermark]

10:14 10:53 MOM GET THE CAMERA IM IN A KZbin VIDEO (The one with the Yukatek mask and the red Lighting) Info about the character btw: It aint really a mech or cyberpunk ass character though just looks like it but it's just a bulky woman with a stolen mask and scrap armor that been painted red for cosmetic purposes on the character's and fan faction's part

[@chob5119]

fire

[@ollik3333]

im level 2000 something in atf8 in mirage 325. i had more fun in mirage then in atf 8 dont get me wrong wintertide is fun but it feels to modern most people i see just playing as droid or milsim i tried my self to play as normal water agin but failed becuse it got to boring i switchet back to faction rp becuse idk i had more fun in faction I talk with friend about the problem atf8 and the series and we talk about new region my idea was bring back the old lore and let it set in Europe East germany or poland Faction ideas: Atlest bring back NATO ACMF , some militias and i kinda like the GLA something like that but they just control a small pre-war town this my ideas if it would take place in germany Something like SLF or for poland something like USRF but small and they constant strugel either getting suppressd by nato or the GLA like town

[@nicholaskinsey2663]

My look on, immersion, (atleast that first part) let people do what they want, its bringing new players in, man Also, its a GAME, it doesnt have to be too realistic

[@mushreemman]

It’s a roleplay game. The entire vision of a roleplay game is to tell a cohesive story among many people. ATF8’s timeline isn’t cohesive and realistically built enough to inspire good rp. New players in is good, but those new players are getting the wrong idea on what ATF is, or at least, what is was. I’m guessing you didn’t play the older games?

[@nicholaskinsey2663]

I have played the older game, and, i do agree, some parts are a bit too sci-fi, but most of the laser guns arent, also chromies, yeah. They suck. Videogames are supposed to be an escape from reality, not embrace it @@mushreemman

[@mushreemman]

@@nicholaskinsey2663 It is an escape from reality. But after the flash’s escape was an escape into a post apocalypse that felt more gritty than what was usually on the market. That’s why people liked it, that was the fun of it. The fact that the apocalypse took place relatively close to modern day gave it a sense of realism and immersion that was, itself, the “escape” you mention. The fun of it was that immersion, that feeling of closeness to the apocalypse.

[@DangDuyThang1]

The mods also just gave up on RP rules...

[@M0zzorella]

Can you add the music you used in the video? I really liked the music choice. Besides that great in-depth video hope you upload more.

[@mushreemman]

Sure, I’ll send the list when I get back home!

[@mushreemman]

I added the music list in the description. Which song you want to know about?

[@user-ki3sq9ux3v]

​@@mushreemman I personally, wanna know about the pink floyd cover in the video, i liked it but couldn't find it. Could you post a link or tell me what the artist's name who covered it is?

[@Mistergreys]

ATF HAS LORE??????

[@peanutceoofthepeanutorder2869]

credited the wrong person 15:44 If you wish to get in contact with the actual creator it's Mikiel Jooksun

[@noob3427]

best

[@Fungtusk]

Fellow scroom

[@DinxDog]

I'm debating getting into ATF, should I? I have a bit of roleplaying experience but not much.

[@mushreemman]

I’d say you should. Try to play it with friends, make some solid ones in the community and generally you’ll fair better. There’s some good fan projects such as 4R or Project Bayshore (ahem) that are getting good work in that should be out soon enough, so you could try those instead. ATF8 should hopefully be over by the end of the year. Chad knows he screwed up with this one, so hopefully he’s going to cut it off soon.

[@DinxDog]

@@mushreemman Alright I'm gonna check it out, also good video btw.

[@someenthusiastclips9043]

This is a great video. The lore is choppy, and that point I agree with. When I bought the beta, I took a step away from roblox for a different reason. I then joined around sep and I meet a dude what looked to be in a SEAL suit. And Again, I didn't bother with rules I just wanted a taste. I asked him like, this shit wasn't allowed in at7, right? I feel that ATF8 has potential because it is a lot less corrupt as ATF7 was. ATF8 is buggy, but I think it will last another year or two, because there is a lot of new players coming in because of the lean rule system. Overall, ATF8 has potential, they just need to use it.

[@istoleyourbread756]

Good vid

[@saerte9403]

i don't understand the hate of the parking garage thingy, i saw alot of interesting towns and builds that were built in that area, could someone actually inform me why that place wasn't good?

[@mushreemman]

Cause it was the only place people actually went.

[@saerte9403]

@@mushreemman i was fine with that honestly, i mostly was the type of person back in mirage to go around and just rp with people for no reason, as long as that bloated area is fun to rp in, i dont mind it. (bargetown is not a fun place to rp in)

[@MerkONeil]

this@@mushreemman

[@mushreemman]

@@saerte9403fair. Barge town certainly is one of the blander and more annoying places to rp in the atf series. It was just so condensed.

[@isaiahjoseph7352]

​@@mushreemman Yeah, honestly I tried role-playing there and it wasn't really fun. Granted this was a few months ago but it all devolved into, "small talk rp" and one occasion where I "CRP'd" a droid roleplayer into getting kicked out of town after I caused a small fight to break out as my raider. To be perfectly honest, wintertide isn't to fun ATM since rolling combat is completely reliant on RNG and the IRMS system has been hard for me to grasp, granted I haven't attended any events that actually use them but I've heard that the events utilizing the system aren't to great since people argue over calling shots