A serious talk about Fullmetal Alchemist.

[@laurenrogers]

Something I meant to address in the video but couldn’t find a good spot for: I feel like a lot of people analyze this arc as though Roy and Riza are the main characters, and contrary to what my channel would have you believe… they’re not. I feel like if they WERE the main characters, the development for the Amestrian military and the Ishvalans would be a bit more even. The story is ultimately about Edward, who for all his brilliance, is still a sheltered 15-year-old boy with a lot to learn about the world. The series knows this, and it doesn’t act like Edward’s POV is the only right one, but it’s never going to be completely unaffected by his perspective. Edward wasn’t there for the war, so most of what we learn about it has to come from him finding it out from other characters, and Roy and Riza are the ones he’s closest to, so of course most of what we get about Ishval is from their perspective. We absolutely do need stories where the voices of the survivors of oppression are the loudest, but I think stories about young people coming to terms with their own society’s moral failings are also very important ones to tell, and since that was the kind of story Arakawa herself could relate to, I think it was the right thing to do to tell it from that perspective rather than trying to tell a story she may not have been as qualified to speak for. Also, in the first section after the intro I do mostly refer to Roy beyond a certain point even though a lot of the points I make apply to Riza as well, that’s mainly because Roy is understandably the target of more criticism since he wielded flame alchemy and thus took more lives, as well as the fact that he’s the one actually trying to become Fuhrer. Not trying to ignore my girl just wanted to make sure I didn’t get redundant

[@unknowable2617]

I'm a POC as well, and I have to say that for me Scar has the best character arc of the show and most shows I've seen. FMA is one of the rare manga/anime that treats people of colour with so much respect and empathy. Yes, they are poor as a result of the attack. Yes, they are pushed out of their lands. Yes,they suffered at the hands of Amestrians. But they never lost their identity. Their resilience, their humaneness, and their willingness to step in to save their oppressors shook me to my core when I watched the show. I remember crying when they appear at the end to help the 'revolution'. If anything, they are absolute heroes. I had no idea this was happening in the fandom. I never felt like Scar's character growth involved forgiving amestrians. It always felt to me like it was about finding his way back to God, coming to terms with what happened and walking from it with the intention of building back instead of just going on a rampage that would eventually continue this cycle of hatred. Which I felt was characteristic of ishvalans as a whole. And while I did initially think scar was evil, once his backstory was revealed he immediately became one of my favourite characters.

[@laurenrogers]

This is one of my favorite comments I’ve ever gotten on my channel. I appreciate ya :)

[@unknowable2617]

@@laurenrogers Aww. I appreciate you too! Good job on this. Love this video essay format. Can't wait to see what you have coming out next. :)

[@rominarad3984]

Kinda late to the discussion but as a middle eastern who's been in love with FMA since forever, I can confidently say that FMA does a wonderful job at it's POC representation in relation to "Ishvalans". As a kid, I had never seen any representation for people like me in media. I almost felt like we didn't exist. So, upon discovering FMA at like 9-10 yrs old, I felt so surprised at seeing characters that were supposed to be reps for ppl like me in the real world. Now, being much older and reflecting back on FMA with a more critical lens, I'm actually impressed at how Arakawa handled racism and the Ishvalan war. The delicacy, the clear attention to detail, the care that she put into this plotline is obvious. Anyways, that's just my 2 cents. The internet will always find smth to yell about lmao BUT the movie's brownface did, in fact, piss me off (x_x) also i have SEVERAL opinions on the whole Roy n Riza thing, but the comparison to Nazis is simply absurd and lowkey offensive.

[@errormacrodylan6747]

This is a really interesting topic of discussion. This is a really good video and I whole heartily agree with literally everything.

[@poketails]

Oh boi late to the party as always for me in FMA this happens to the people getting into it in our year 2022 a decade later after it came out lets go. Anyway A I agree with everything you say and I wanted to add my own points cuz the conversation of oppression and "Who deserves redemption" is very common in other fandoms im in and honestly is kinda tiring? Seeing how people frame redemption as a quantity to achieve. And to start my frustration with these ideals in a personal note so I can also frame my point of view in this conversation, I am Venezuelan and I am a victim of a military state and its oppression, so I do relate a lot with what the Ishvalans went through to the point the whole sequence hit a bit too close at times. And yet, the character I do relate to the most is Roy, a man who wanted to do the right thing now being filled with guilt for the things he did and then being expected just to go on with his life like nothing happened, having to act and keep working like if your brain ever left that place, and finding the best thing you can do is using that as a motivator to try and change something in hopes it might not happen again. I am a fine arts student and I am constantly encouraged to communicate this stuff in hopes it might reach someone, even if in the process I feel like giving away the small semblence of sanity I have left. My point with this whole thing tho is to express how a victim can still relate to Roy, because a lot of these posts/ideas come from the assumption that a victim will hate Roy And So Should You. Which in itself it feels like some kind of saviorism, telling me who I should relate to in an story just because is the easiest way for them to understand me. Now in more FMA canon stuff lmao I just wanted to add some points. When talking about Roy and Riza's actual ideologies, a very important dialog that was left out of the anime (Tho included in the OVA) is that both of them say something among the lines of "We are meant to protect our people, then why are we killing them?". They refer to the Ishvalans as "Our people", as Amestrians, as people they should be protecting and caring for. Even if other characters do repeat racists narratives of othering, thinking of Ishvalans as an other is ok to hurt, is well stated that Riza and Roy do not think like this, all the contrary, and it is the fact that they see the Ishvalans as equals that gives them the resolution to sacrifice everything for this to never happen. And regarding Scar, a thing that I want to add and want more people overall to consider is his relationship with Mai Chang. Yes their relationship starts because she helps him and it is frames a little bit like he keeps her around because she is useful, but is very easy to note that is just the excuse Scar, a pragmatic, is giving himself to care for this child. He goes out of his way to help her find Chao Mai, without any personal reason apart that this girl needs helps finding who she considers family. And at the end of that sequence, he allies himself with Alphonse, an Amestrian who not long ago were trying to k-word each other, to protect this little Xingese girl. Is because of Mai he learns to care about the now and how to fix things for the future, to focus on care and not revenge. Ultimatelly my point is that it does bother me the idea that "Redemption" is a quantifiable thing, and that a "reedemed" character is one that we feel doesn't have any more unlikable characteristics or something. Ultimatelly this idea of redemption is what the idea of "Equivalent exchange" means and the series disproves at the end. Scar's quest wasn't going to bring Ishval back, it wasn't going to help. The same way, Envy's death show that Riza and Roy's plan was flawed, they only thought about being judged for their crimes and dying for it as redemption because they took so many lives, but that wasn't really going to help ishval, it was just going to give them the satisfaction and justification for self-destruction. Nothing that they do over the assumption that a single action or "Sacrifice for the better good" (Consider here that also Scar thinks he is sacrificing everything he is by betraying his religious views) is ever going to help, what does help is actually focusing in the here and now, and is not about "Ok I filled the good metter, now ya'll can forgive me" but instead just moving on hoping what you do is the right thing.

[@laurenrogers]

GOD FREAKING BLESS YOU COMMENTS LIKE THIS ARE WHAT KEEP THIS CHANNEL GOING ALL OF YOUR POINTS ARE SO RIDICULOUSLY ON THE MONEY

[@poketails]

@@laurenrogers AAA THANKS U glad U like my essay answer to your essay cuz gosh I don't know how to write shortly to anything specially when I just want to Express Thoughts (tm) I don't know with who to drop lmao Your videos are great and I honestly would love to see more analysis of FMA and media from u!

[@laurenrogers]

@@poketails oh I totally get you. I actually plan on doing an analysis of the Roy Vs Lust fight sometime when I can stop being a coward and get around to writing it

[@poketails]

@@laurenrogers OOooh that sounds interesting 👀it is a discussion I seen many people have so im interesting in hearing your take!!

[@raymontyoungblood4453]

Look, we can't do this guys. We can't say, "Let's have representation of BIPOC" and then simultaneously say, "No, not like that, you're doing it wrong!!" Scar's story and the Ishvalan War is a PIVOTAL part of this universe. There's no reason to edit or change anything about it. It isn't racist, it's realistic and I'll defend it's importance to whoever. Keep loving FMA, and so will I!!

[@laurenrogers]

Thank you so much! This comment was so validating especially coming from a POC.

[@raymontyoungblood4453]

@@laurenrogers of course Lauren! There are real conflicts in the world, but in my opinion, this is not a mockery, but a reflection of the world that we live in.

[@YamiKisara]

Preach! I've recently seen someone whine about the lack of depth of the female characters in the story! Clearly I must've read/watched a different FMA (I've seen everything bar the live action), because the women in FMA play an integral role in the story and are very realistically and diversely depicted (from Izumi who wanted nothing more than a child and was refused that blessing to Olivier who couldn't care less about feminity). Same nonsense with people starting and immediately jumping the Nazi gun. Knowing the slightest bit about Nazism would make it clear the story isn't glorifying it, nor are the military practices there in any way similar to theirs - if anything, people who lived though the fall of Jugoslawia (the later conflict surounding Kosovo included) are the only people alive today to have witnessed practices similar to what Amestris did in Ishval. Unfortunately, people think they know about Nazism because they know WWII happened, but their knowledge (unless they are interested in history beyond whatever they learn at school) doesn't even reach the "what is the ideology about" level...

[@raymontyoungblood4453]

@@YamiKisara AMEN!!!!

[@flusel4949]

It’s here! I‘m so glad those issues are finally addressed after all the debatable posts I‘ve read about Mangahood. This will hardly surprise you, but I 1000% agree with everything you said! FMA is not perfect, but it‘s still an impressive and amazing work of art that handles a lot of difficult issues really well and definitely deserves better than some of the criticism it get now.

[@noradora5713]

YOU GET IT!!!! I have SO many thoughts about Fullmetal Alchemist and it really does frustrate me to no end how so many people can love the show but not understand it. There are undeniably blind spots and it is by no means exempt from criticism but it does so much right and explores extremely complicated topics with astounding nuance. I have a goal to write an academic paper about FMA and militarism and I might quote some things in this video if that’s alright with you. You really hit the nail on the head with everything in this video and I agree wholeheartedly. Great job! Love your channel BTW :)

[@laurenrogers]

Oh my goodness that’s amazing! I would be honored! You totally have permission.

[@geeves3118]

I think this is really good dive into the show. No work of art is going to be perfect. Fictional stories are created by flawed people about flawed characters, but that doesn't mean they can't be incredible!

[@ekaterinakonovalova1377]

This is probably a counterintuitive comment as this talk is about accepting the work as it is and my addition is about a headcanon, but if you're allowed to process thoughts publicly, so am I, haha. The reasoning behind Marco's offer and Roy's acceptance seems to be that he'll be able to do more with one use of the stone than another person they could spend that soul on, which would stand out as FMAB's worst instance of the "white saviour" complex. But, even though it's coming from a place of good intention, the primary purpose of this is, I think, to remind us that no character is perfect and our devotions can and will be twisted into our vices over and over again - not to justify the action. But I also feel comfortable about the "Roy doesn't get his sight back" AU? It isn't, in my opinion, less realistic than the canon event. It's not like Roy thought he would be powerless when blind, or he didn't have an opportunity to consider the implications of using the stone - honestly, when I rewatch the dialogue leading up to his choice now, the choice itself seems unexpected, jarring. In conclusion, I agree with you, it feels like a moment where the author's choice was the only variable, and it's not a bad moment to remember that characters are tools, and imagining something that would inspire you more in this case isn't fundamentally misunderstanding the work. I see no fault in liking concepts in fiction that I wish were more common in the real world

[@laurenrogers]

Yeah I totally get the point of your first paragraph I just hate HATE that that’s the note they chose to literally end his story on like WHY

[@ekaterinakonovalova1377]

@@laurenrogers same

[@thebosskingreturns]

I absolutely love how you managed to work that absolute gem of a doctor who quote into your argument

[@laurenrogers]

First of all THANK YOU for noticing, second of all, plot twist: it’s actually also in reference to this kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5SZhJyAnqt-jdk

[@esthelleg7037]

1. Thank you for contributing to the discussion! When we analyze most works of fiction, it’s important to identify various positive and negative aspects, rather than blanketing the entire narrative as one or the other. Nuance should be a tool, not an excuse, and this video is a testament to that. 2. What’s this I hear about an FMA musical? Has any of it been shared?? Can I convey my excitement with three additional question marks???

[@cg_2k72]

There's nothing wrong with Roy using the philosopher's stone to restore his sight. It is Ed and Al's personal philosophy not to use the stone, and since they're the main POV characters, that viewpoint tends to dominate the story. It would be insanely hypocritical for Roy to turn down using the stone when he already has blood on his hands. He isn't supposed to the morally unblemished character. It's also not his idea, Dr Marco offers it and all of them acknowledge the implication of using it. It's used in a purely medical purpose. In addition, Roy lost his sight for doing human transmutation against his will, to chalk it up as him remaining blind as 'being justice' when it was inflicted by the same people who also caused him to commit his crimes in the first place is hardly satisfactory. Final point, Amestris is still a military-state at the end of the series. Roy's worth is his ability to be a solider and a State alchemist. He doesn't have the option like Ed and Al to walk away. He hasn't achieved his goal. Keeping him blind would effectively end his military career; and even if he could give up his alchemy like Ed did (he can't because he actually doesn't know human transmutation in order to open the portal) in order to get his sight back, his value once again would be diminished. Also Ling does the exact same thing to become emperor of Xing? If using the philosopher's stone is the litmus-test of morality, then a lot of characters will need to be reassessed. Like Hoffenheim makes the choice to use his philosopher stone when he could have easily used normal equivalent-exchange alchemy. Would damaging the homunculi knowing that they get their powers from the stone also be considered a bad thing?

[@laurenrogers]

An excellent argument!

[@ashhabimran239]

To add on to my previous comment, with similar stuff going on in the world, people's feelings of resentment for Amestris can really intensify. When the massacre looks awfully similar to real-life atrocities going on out there, often seen in videos, I really don't blame people for feeling uncomfortable with the series and wanting certain characters to face retribution

[@laurenrogers]

Yeah I totally agree, the genocide happening right now is frightfully similar to the events here and makes FMA’s portrayal even more poignant

[@ashhabimran239]

@@laurenrogers Yup. On the subject of the video, I don't think the series poorly portrayed the topic, it was written and portrayed well. Unfortunately, too horrifyingly well and real

[@laurenrogers]

@@ashhabimran239 agreed. It saddens me so much

[@ladyscribbles6134]

This was a really good video with a lot of thoughtful and nuanced points. I love the FMA franchise, and while it’s definitely not free from criticism, they did so much well with the topics they handle-especially when you compare to a whole lot of other media that just fail or fall flat on its face. I think one of the most valid criticism I’ve seen on topic is that the Ishvalans should’ve been more involved with what they do with the philosophers stone and stuff like that-and even then, I’d infer a lot of that did occur at least offscreen and post-series within the world of FMA. I think it would be very interesting for Arakawa or even a different qualified artist/writer to explore the Ishvalan perspective more - hell, we have fan fiction! Whether it’s during the war / genocide period of that history, before, during the events of FMA, or after the whole government conspiracy + conflict featured in the FMA story. Or even write a story completely separate from FMA that explores / expands on those elements! If nothing else, this opens up a very interesting and important discussion on the literature of FMA and just literature in general that tackles these kinds of topics and issues-as well as how to expand and explore these kinds of things in future literature! That was my long-winded way of saying great video and I love FMA lol KINDA SPOILER FOR FMA: CONQUEROR OF SHAMBALLA: P. S. I think the whole nazi thing might actually stem from people who watch the Conqueror of Shamballa movie, where they do kinda make that comparison (though again, while there are some similarities you could point out between Amestris and Nazi Germany, there are different genocides and corrupt governments throughout real history that could serve as better and more direct comparisons to the Ishvalan genocide and Amestris)

[@laurenrogers]

Thanks for the thoughtful comment! And yeah which is part of why I HATE conqueror of shamballa

[@somenobody5099]

Politics and Representation is one of the things that makes this series great. That being said, the dad that made a the Chimera combo of his daughter abd the family dog knocked me on my ass. I wasn't ready for the 4th! Episode to go from Ed, Al, Nina and the bestest pupper ever playing and having fun to some psychopath father making an abomination against God and Nature! I was doing fine with my mental health and the the dog started talking. I had to stop to series and just contemplate how more fucked up this series can get. So far, the dog-girl is still the most fucked up thing so far. Love the series and love your videos.

[@samuelclayhills3298]

Well at least in this fandom people can agree that facism bad and all that.

[@laurenrogers]

As opposed to???

[@ashhabimran239]

I've always had some.... specific and opinionated feeling on the Ishvalan subplot in the series. It's not because it was poorly written or anything, but because of how painful it was to sit through, to the point where I blocked the series out of my mind and somewhat resented it for a while. I know it sounds crazy, but I found it so blood-boiling and vomit-inducing to sit through that I wanted everyone who took part to pay and face retribution, including Mustang and Hawkeye. In fact, I really don't blame these posts for feeling the way they do, being reminded of what they did, it's hard for me to feel sympathy for them, especially considering they're characters we're meant to like and root for. I know they were just following orders and their goal is to fix all of this, fix Amestris and the rebuild Ishval, and yes, despite all the blood on their hands, trying to fix things is better than just not doing anything about it. But despite all that, their truly irredeemable actions are hard to overlook and doesn't make them any less terrible, and (as harsh as it is of me to say) it feels like they should face justice, even if it means execution. As much of a scumbag Kimblee is, he had a point, if you choose a path like this in life, at least stick to it instead of muddying the waters; at least Kimblee doesn't make me feel conflicted for rooting against him. Also, even in Envy's dying moments, I never had any sympathy for him because he kickstarted it all, albeit under Father's orders. As for Scar, I pretty much fully agree with what you said, you did great justice explaining his character and reinforced why he's one of my favourite characters in the series. When revisiting the series, I was rooting for Scar in the first third of the series, I was like "Yes, kill more State Alchemists! Get revenge for your people!". But in all seriousness, I truly feel for Scar, and it was mildly annoying seeing Ed, Al, and Winry chastise Scar (though I understand their mad about the Rockbells) instead of trying to understand him. And look I understand all of this might not be the best way of looking at it and a couple of these point may be bizarre to read, but these are some of my honest thoughts on this, feel free to disagree

[@godogodo8893]

Some of these takes lead me to believe we haven't watched the same show or something... Like HOW DO YOU SAY ENVY IS MORE HUMAN THAN SCAR?? Scar has arguably the best character development in the series. Yeah, FMA has some issues but to me at least it's nothing major, just small bits. I want a spin-off with the aftermath of Brotherhood too T_T, I'd pay good money for that

[@noahmooney3212]

I cannot believe they would do this on the holy month of Ramadan smh this is haram. salaam alaikum Loren, may allah guide their lost souls 🙏

[@laurenrogers]

Aaaaand he’s back