A staircase to infinity?

Jack Chesher, Corry Will and Luke Cutforth discuss a question about some sequential steps.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcast.com
GUESTS:
Jack Chesher: ‪@livinglondonhistory‬, / livinglondonhis
Corry Will: ‪@SciGuys‬, / notcorry
Luke Cutforth: ‪@SciGuys‬, / lukecutforth
HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
RECORDED AT: The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
EDITED BY: Julie Hassett.
GRAPHICS: Chris Hanel at Support Class. Assistant: Dillon Pentz.
MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com).
FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2023.

[@zzzzzzzzzzzspaf]

Corry's fact is more interesting than that. The reason they had something interesting is that all the usual way of counting steps are patented (or something similar) so the pokemon company had to invent something else to avoid paying, which somehow ended up being better that the rest.

[@LadyGavGav]

As I await a full series of _Corry's Japanese Pedometer Facts_ to hit my screen.

[@42Tacos]

definitely snack zone inspired - amazing"

[@robertjarman3703]

That misspelling is extremely unfortunate.

[@KusaneHexaku]

@@robertjarman3703what misspelling?

[@curtishoffmann6956]

Correction - The department store is named "Tokyu Hands." Tokyu came from "Tokyo Express Electric Railway Share Company" (Tokyo = east capital, and kyu = express), and "Hands" was the fact that it was originally a DIY store and the hands in the logo represented "handicrafts." It was rebranded in 2022 as just "Hands." And you can find "Hands" department stores all over Japan.

[@Njald]

But if it's just called just Hands now, wouldn't it make sense that a Hands store in Tokyo would be called Tokyo Hands?

[@RobWVideo]

And, for some strange reason, there's one inside Changi Airport in Singapore.

[@curtishoffmann6956]

@@Njald Just like with all other chains, it's "Hands, Hands, Tokyo Store."

[@RidanDeba]

In addition, it is not technically an upscale department store, but more like a fashionable housewares store. It's like a dollar store, except the items sold there cost about ten of dollars.

[@zigarettenbruch6999]

The fact that they actually made the Pedometer Fact jingle made the episode!

[@Quasihamster]

This staircase will burn 12.047 calories. This is equivalent of a fifteen storey building. Yes. Skyscrapers really are that poor in nutrients.

[@quintuscrinis8032]

Skyscrapers or London Underground stations?

[@nitehawk86]

This fact brought to you by Geoff Marshall.

[@michaelocyoung]

@@quintuscrinis8032 London Underground stations are just upside down skyscrapers.

[@sputukgmail]

Bodies burn calories even when at rest - the benefits of climbing stairs etc is not so much the immediate energy burned, but because muscle burns more calories and doing exercise builds muscle. This (combined with how the body reacts to calorie deficiency) is why simply cutting calories to lose weight is a bad idea - exercise, and regular exercise, is much more important.

[@darkshoxx]

"Corry's Japanese Pedometer Facts" BETTER be a recurring segment! Otherwise it would surely be "fact" not "facts" 😄

[@the-pink-hacker]

Please…

[@Finat0]

Agreed

[@ids1024]

Next Tom Scott video on mistakes he's made: "...this was falsely stated as 'facts' when there was, in fact, only a singular fact".

[@JonReevesLA]

"Corry's Japanese Pedometer Facts" has Jet Lag "Snack Zone" vibes all over it...

[@markusklyver6277]

Well, Tom has collabed with jet lag so...

[@qwertyTRiG]

_It's a show within a show!_

[@akino_germany]

No way they actually made the jingle

[@ArifRWinandar]

"Ooh, look at me with my stock music-" Make some goddamn jingles! -Tom Scott

[@bananawieldingorenji]

​@@ArifRWinandarthat's a rant I haven't heard in a while

[@Tine_of_Nice_Dreams]

Was teaching English at elementary schools in Japan when heart gold/soul silver released. The pokewalker was useful to keep track of my daily steps, let me progress in the game while being active, and it totally impressed the kids who spotted it clipped near my pocket. Wonderful gimmick for that game!

[@TallinuTV]

I’m just amazed someone took the time to make that “facts” splash screen and jingle. 😂

[@whyamiwastingmytimeonthis]

Umm, Tom, I think it’s *Tokyu* Hands Store, located in Tokyo

[@odorikakeru]

Came here to say the same thing. But it seems like this is the question writer’s mistake, and Tom is just reading what’s in front of him.

[@PlanckRelic]

The jingle was worth it

[@haydent4461]

My first guess was right! I don't know how widespread it is outside of Japan, but I once saw this at a train station in Austria and it somehow stuck in my mind as one of those useless facts you always remember.

[@JasperJanssen]

I’ve seen it in lots of stairs. My employer puts them in all the buildings.

[@Michiellovietsj]

I know a hospital in the Netherlands that has done that but just counting up

[@sourcererseven3858]

the jingle alone was worth watching this only on KZbin 😁

[@nitehawk86]

Thank you to the editors. :)

[@MichaelBerthelsen]

I've been to that Tokyu Hands! Great place for craft supplies!♥️♥️ Also, your pronounciation of Shibyua was quite good, Tom. Nothing wrong with it.👍

[@the_mcscientist]

4:24 My guess would be calories It's definitely not only in Japan, have seen that in Belgium somewhere

[@TheAllRounderMemes]

I'm so happy to have guessed it immediately

[@roaringviking5693]

I was about to comment that Shibuya is a ward in Tokyo, not a department store, but upon listening again I realized you probably was referring to Tokyu Hands. :D I don't think it was totally clear, though, so I just leave this here anyway.

[@lorenzoblum868]

Had the same issue. Tom must be aware of this I think although it is good you clarifying this.

[@cmelonwheels]

After listening to the pod I had to come watch the video version to see what visual went along with the Corry's Japanese Pedometer Fact(s) jingle

[@meabhmurphy9090]

This episode was a shock to me. Jack was one of my friends at school that I haven't kept in contact with and this is how I've discovered that he has a popular KZbin channel

[@aceofarrows]

Shibuya is the most famous _shopping district_ in Japan; it is every bit as upscale as implied. It's also home to the country's most famous and busiest intersection, the Shibuya Scramble Crossing. If that interests you and makes you wonder what exactly that looks like, you'll be happy to learn that several KZbin channels offer a 24/7 live feed of the scramble. (Before anybody feels the need to point it out as though I didn't know or forgot: Both Shibuya and its scramble crossing are also major fixtures in the video game franchise "The World Ends With You.")

[@lawnjart16]

I got this slightly before they did (also die to their questions), as my workplace has the same thing on their steps. Except instead of going negative, it goes positive as the more you burn.

[@letmebecharlie]

when i was listening to this episode for the first time i just burst out laughing at the jingle - i was definitely not ready for it

[@yookoala]

Love the Pedometer Fact animation 😂

[@nibs7252]

My mind immediately went to calories. We have similar things on some hiking trails here, though the numbers are a lot more variable.

[@JeskidoYT]

I love the jingle!!!

[@tonypang83]

Love the fact at the end. Just shows Nintendo have incredible engineers on the hardware side of things

[@goinkosu]

I find this idea strange because wouldn't you burn more or less calories depending on the shape and fitness of your own body? It sounds like it could be misleading to people who are trying to lose weight. But I don't know I've never seen one of these

[@letmebecharlie]

i was thinking the same

[@rageagainstthebath]

Just like nutrition facts and their recommended daily intake of this and that, it's calculated for an average person. Still it delivers the message that a chocolate bar will cost you thousands of steps later, give or take a few percent.

[@ilyaholt8607]

The main takeaway is that most people burn the vast majority of their daily calories just by existing. Any additional activity or exercise is more useful for building/maintaining muscle, as opposed to losing weight. To lose weight, you mainly need to ingest fewer calories throughout the day. Simple as that.

[@letmebecharlie]

@@rageagainstthebath i might be biased but that sounds like breeding ground for disordered eating (especially considering asian beauty standards - not that european or american ones are better though)

[@JasperJanssen]

Not really fitness - the efficiency if energy expended is more or less the same whether you’re in shape or not, as long as you’re not, like, going into anaerobic. But weight, yes. What you’re doing is lifting weight, namely yourself and if I weigh twice what you do I will turn twice the amount of energy from sugar into height.

[@nivalshade]

I've seen some of those (spoiler) in korean metro, it's like "Don't use the escalator, use the stairs instead! So you can burn 2.13kcal!" I usually use the escalator.

[@brianfrance6283]

I have been there. Also in Ikiburo.

[@johnrdorazio]

And they sell chocolate biscuits on the way up the stairs to restore the lost calories 😂

[@Shmiguelly]

Corry's voice is one I feel would be lovely to fall asleep to

[@NewlandJ987]

I got this right away because my town’s city hall (Somerville, MA) has similar markings on its stairs.

[@AntonioGarciaTHN]

We have the same thing in the office at least in London and Dublin, probably in other offices too

[@williamnathanael412]

Singapore has it too!

[@avilst1765]

I have also seen it in Singapore in a few hospitals, but it's probably adapted from there.

[@terrylandess6072]

Well, without knowing more about Japanese building codes, geography, cultural history, what a Tokyo Hands store is or local societal shenanigans in Shibuya, I'll just have to watch since the question gives me nothing but knowledge that I lack context. :) @4:17 I'm going with distance. @5:08 I learn how 'close' I got.

[@lastnamefirstname8655]

nice stairs!

[@generalZee]

When will Corry's Japanese Pedometer Facts be its own channel?

[@jessicamenschel6775]

Cannon now all random facts, need a jingle!

[@harrry4052]

THE SNACK ZONEE

[@aloysiuskurnia7643]

Oh I get this immediately because the train station I've often go to does have one :^)

[@audreyprewett8076]

Pokewalkers and Pokemon Go, the two accidentally most effective fitness programs 🤣

[@thesoreenman2498]

I just learnt Tom Scott, Evan Edinger and Luke Cutforth are friends!

[@loukverhofstadt607]

There's a gym in the Netherlands that also has this on the stairs

[@yaboyJJJJJ]

There's a stair like this in the netherlands going up to a gym next to Utrecht Central station

[@pauldaplayfulpanda3042]

Korea has this too!

[@DanielDugovic]

I might have to check out that video game.

[@the_antichrists_plus_one]

I was yelling at the screen because in Graz Austria we have that exact same thing at the stairs at the main train station

[@xplax24]

I instantly got it because those are quite common in Korea too

[@DominoLarry]

"I've never seen it outside Japan."? I've only seen it in the Netherlands, but okay I've also not been outside the Netherlands 😂

[@42Siren]

Aaah... you can even find these in few breweries which are not situated on ground level in Bangalore. They mention the calorie burn as a way to motivate their customers to burn some calories and reach the upper floor, so that they can give their customers a way to morally justify themselves a way to have one more glass of beer just because they climbed the steps.

[@TrabberShir]

I need to know the assumed mass of the person walking now. Because the calories burned are linearly related to both the height of the step and the weight being lifted. I am pretty sure I burn around three times as much per step as the average Japanese person.

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

Calories was my second guess after sea level but then I started thinking I was wrong when Tim said they were getting closer when referring to heights. Also you burn 0.17cal per step so the numbers didn't add up

[@moonfrost8944]

It'd depend on the average mass of a person where you live, which I'd say is likely higher in most places than in Japan. Not by quite as much as that difference would imply, though it'd be a bit closer. The standard stair height may also be different there.

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

@@moonfrost8944 true but I'd assume in Japan it would be less.

[@Schlups]

I need to fat check this

[@LymusIll]

I've seen it in Germany too, so it's not just Japan.

[@daniel-panek]

I've been there! I got a tourist hanko from Tokyu Hands.

[@jeffreyrosenkrantz]

This also exists at an MRT station in Bangkok

[@gregf9160]

I think Jack and Luke should get together on some stuff.

[@davidshi451]

"Nah, the writers are just being jerks" So, basically every episode of Lateral :D jk jk I love you guys

[@andrewgrant6516]

Climb up all the stairs. Sell you a pastry at the top.

[@woo545]

What happens if you Rocky the steps?

[@kiro9291]

6:52 OMG the show has budget

[@KineticPassion]

It came back with the Pokeball plus! (And Pokemon Go itself i guess)

[@qwertystop]

I've seen a staircase like that at a hospital near me. Nowhere near Tokyo.

[@Rollermonkey1]

Earthquake-induced movement? Th step was at sea level, and moved down, then up due to seismic events?

[@mr88cet]

I haven’t watched the whole video yet, but my immediate guess was along the lines of “your weight is reduced by that many grams by virtue of being that much farther from the surface of the Earth.” I haven’t worked through the math yet, but that’s probably too quick of a reduction, and of course it would depend upon your weight at sea level.

[@John73John]

I don't know the answer. The question didn't register in my brain. All I'm capable of thinking about right now is that piece of acoustic foam behind Corry that's hanging down slightly.

[@LynxSnowCat]

I got confused by different speakers flipping "higher" and "lower" to describe the progression of the numbers with height up/down from proposed reference points. It is Negative numbers with _magnitude_ increasing with height; or Negative numbers with value decreasing _inversely_ with height; or The higher the step, the further from [redact: spoil?] its labeled-value counts down.

[@potato._.1]

aaaaa I got it immediately haha I feel so smart >:D

[@Spalfos]

I guessed the correct answer out loud before the question was done being read. AND I knew the pedometer fact at the end. When do I get my gold medal

[@Marlosian]

Thank you so much for correcting calories to kilocalories at least once. The misuse of the word sometimes really grinds my gears. Every time I hear somebody say "I try to lose x calories a day", I think "well no wonder your diet doesn't work".

[@thomasdalton1508]

It's not wrong to say Calories, you just need to capitalise it. There are 1,000 calories in a Calorie. Whoever came up with that should be severely punished, but that's how it is...

[@Marlosian]

If only somebody invented Scientific Notation and Standard Prefixes; it would sure help with confusing cases like this. Oh wait, they did. @@thomasdalton1508

[@fariesz6786]

i wonder if those numbers are a relatively recent trend or if i just never noticed them when i was over there.. which was.. ages ago.. i'm old ( T)

[@alexander0the0gray]

Shibuya, Shibuya, Shibuya The girl who's hard to get Shibuya, Shibuya, Shibuya But you can win her yet

[@loddude5706]

What floor is the defibrillator unit marked as? : )

[@boy638]

Surely you also burn calories albeit less when going downstairs that they could display

[@DominoLarry]

Calories?

[@Quacky_Batak]

Shibuya mentioned, where are my JJK fans?

[@vitorkiguchi4670]

Calories is my guess halfway through the video

[@cykkm]

4:00 “Is it related to a height” - “it's not height.” If the numbers “grow steadily as you go up.” then they _are indeed related to a height._ “It's not height” is… arguable. They are very much a _height up to an isomorphism._ Re Correct Answer: Grrrr. If all people of Japan had the same height, weight, age and sex and lacked individual metabolic differences, then it would be a sensible calorie estimate. Otherwise... uh... only up to individual isomorphism.

[@hannahk1306]

This sounds like a way to encourage an unhealthy relationship with exercise and food, especially for someone who has or is recovering from an eating disorder. It also doesn't make sense because the true values are going to be different depending on the person and how they use the stairs - walking, running, mobility aid, disability, injury, health, etc will all affect how much energy you use. It sounds like it comes from the same school of thought as putting calorie counts on menus - a move widely criticised by eating disorder charities. These efforts don't actually help people to improve their lifestyles, they just reinforce disordered messaging around diet and exercise. Instead of pointless gestures that do more harm than good, there should be things like subsidised exercise classes that are genuinely accessible for everyone and free information about how to improve your relationship with food and combatting misinformation. We need actual real-world help and genuine guidance, not generalised stats that are at best meaningless to individuals.

[@panda4247]

What is this weird stupid thing that people use the word "calories" when they mean kilocalories? It's like calling grams kilograms, or feet miles, or whatever (yes, the ratio of my last example is different, but it's equally wrong). Let's say the average person weighs 70kg (and I am pretty generous there, probably Japanese are lighter than EU/USA and probably most people visiting gloves-store are women), step height is roughly 20 cm, and g=10, that gives us. So physics tells us that to go one step up you need 70kg * 10N/kg * 0.2m = 140 joules = 33 calories (if there was 100% efficiency etc..). So ok, let's round it up to 100 cal = 0.1 kcal). The number that rises up by 0.105 (you said 1.365 and 1.260 are two adjacent steps) is kcal, not cal. WHY in the world is there an ambiguity in this?

[@lateralcast]

This was in Tom's notes, but it didn't really come up in the conversation.

[@TiaKatt]

Usually the 'C' is capitalized when talking dietary Calories (so kilocalories). But yeah, verbally it's definitely a little ambiguous. And in writing people often don't bother with the capitalization even if they do know the difference, and a somewhat dismaying number of folk don't even realize there's a difference to begin with.

[@markusklyver6277]

kcal is often referred to as calories.

[@panda4247]

@@markusklyver6277 that's what I noticed and my question is "why?" - it is stupid. it's like saying this video is almost 8 Seconds long (I wrote Seconds with capital S, so I meant minutes -- that is stupid, right?)

[@alancheese]

What a misleading title.. .

[@markusklyver6277]

What?