A Small, Cheap Micro-Spectrometer - Review [Pt 1]

[@Posh-Arthur]

I'm sure that a few of our regular viewers will be surprised to see that I now have a co-host for this channel, but I do want to thank Max for his amazing contribution to this tiny, non-monetized channel.

[@project-326]

Indeed, good work Max, looking forward to more cooperation very soon.

[@MrMaxEntropy]

My pleasure Arthur!

[@Muonium1]

Cheerio Posh Arthur, you are looking very appropriately toff indeed 🤖🎩 If I may, I can offer some insight into your spectral analysis of these light sources that you have. The 532nm green laser pointer has a peak at 820nm because this is the wavelength of the GaAs laser diode used to pump the Nd:YVO4 crystal inside which then lases at the fundamental neodymium line at 1064nm, and which THEN is frequency doubled by a potassium titanyl phosphate crystal to 532nm green. Also, your violet diode laser at 22:00 and your red laser at 20:30 are direct diode lasers, there is no pumping of a secondary lasing medium. The line you see at 820nm for the violet laser is just a second order diffraction line, but the small peak at 750nm for the red laser is not. The higher order diffraction peaks will always be at exactly whole single digit multiples of the fundamental line. I suspect the line at 750nm for your red laser, and the small peak at 622nm for your 532nm green laser, AND the small peak at 500nm for your 410nm violet laser are simply an unwanted internal Fresnel surface reflection off the first side of the couple mm thick DVD being used as a diffraction grating on the "Garden" spectrometer. Notice how they only appear on the Garden, and they're always offset 90nm from the brightest peak. Your analysis of the 450nm laser is accurate. I wonder if it is possible to remove the phosphor from a CFL source like that by immersing the tube in an ultrasonic cleaner bath, which then could be used to observe the mercury lines in complete isolation, as from an uncoated germicidal bulb. Pip pip old chap. Looking forward to part 2.

[@project-326]

@@Muonium1 Hi and thank you very much for the detailed explanation. Actually a few other viewers have helped me with this too. Max, Arthur and myself are always pleased to be learning, even by mistakes. Far too many YT creators are very resistant to corrections (Veritasium comes to mind), so thank you for your help!

[@project-326]

@@Muonium1 Actually, I have a mercury vapor lamp to test in part 2...

[@gblargg]

Woah, I had to check to be sure this was the channel I thought it was. I'm all for trying new styles and approaches. Glad 'Posh' Arthur wasn't fired. His dry humor is important.

[@project-326]

Nobody can fire Posh Arthur, despite how naughty he is...

[@Posh-Arthur]

the humans can't get by without me, don't worry.

[@MrMaxEntropy]

Hello everyone! I'm Max, one of your co-hosts, and I'm thrilled to be here with you all. We're excited to share some interesting content with you - from laughs and learning to complete annihilation of all organic life on earth by my co-host Posh Arthur.

[@Matthew.Morycinski]

It's nice to see fluorescent lamp (i.e. argon and mercury) spectral lines. I remember them from my time in high school (ca. 1980) where I volunteered to repair a physics classroom spectroscope. It had a 60 degree prism, two optical tubes at adjustable angles, and was just missing an eyepiece, which I substituted by fitting an objective lens from my 8mm film camera. It was basically the original Bunsen's design from ca. 1900. Good resolution, as long as the slit was kept narrow enough. I could clearly see the double line of sodium, as well as Fraunhofer dark equivalent in sunlight. Compared to this, the resolution of the two spectrometers reviewed leaves a lot to be desired, especially the small one. I believe TLM-2 design relies on interpolation to such a degree that its results are somewhat misleading. It likely shows any number of close lines as if they were one, as long as they fall on the same pair of pixels of the light sensor. In other words, it will calculate a weighted average of wavelength and add up intensity. So the high accuracy for a sparse spectrum probably belies much lower resolution of a busy one. Try it using a neon lamp, which has a lot of lines close together in the orange-red part of the spectrum. It will likely not resolve very many of them.

[@project-326]

I will be doing exactly as you suggest with a Neon lamp source. As part of another video I'm working on, I will be discussing how to use these cheapo spectrometers to identify elements. I'll post a pic I got from the TLM-2 on the community tab in a few mins, keep an eye open for that!

[@leandroebner1405]

​@@project-326hehe, nice to hear that idea is in the making ^^

[@firstmkb]

lol, I can’t believe anyone else has that Peaches song. I used to listen to it while coding, about 20 years ago - and it still makes me smile.

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

I no longer have a commercial need. But my scientific mind wants one to be added to the selection of it it can be measured I want to be able to measure it. As a former repair technician in the analog days of video and early digital cameras I had to have a calibrated light of a known color temperature. The cheapest way was to use 12V halogen downlights and run them at 14.8V where they only had a short but useful life.

[@chuckadams842]

One additional request for the TLM-2. Have software available for Linux systems. There are millions of Raspberry Pi 5/4/..., Orange Pi 5 Plus, etc systems that amateur and professional scientists use daily. Those interested in atmospheric and astronomical physics/sciences, meteorologists, climatologists and just STEM students and programs that can use the TLM-2 to do research with the small cheap microcomputer systems. If you go open source, you would get 1,000s of programmers to come up the best software that would ordinarily cost millions of dollars (in any currency). Even setup a web page for a repository and competition. The company could come up with a cash prize for the best software submitted for open source and sharing with the Universe at large. Go big and sell a lot of hardware. In my humble opinion. Submitted for your consideration. This could be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[@williampowell2078]

This!

[@Greendawnecho]

Imagine not just offering Linux support, but fully embracing an open-source ecosystem that not only supports these systems but becomes a cornerstone of global collaboration. You could position the TLM-2 as the essential tool for anyone passionate about environmental monitoring, astronomy, or even cutting-edge climate science - and then expand this to other fields of research. This would open the door to users you may not have considered: marine biologists monitoring oceanic weather, urban planners using microclimate data for smart cities, and even educators incorporating real-time data collection into their STEM curricula.

[@robertbauer6723]

Amazing little device, thank you for bringing it to us. Can't wait for part 2

[@project-326]

Coming soon!

[@thom1218]

Correction @20:00, the green laser pointer uses an 808nm pump diode to drive an Nd:YAG medium that outputs 1024nm... you may see residual emissions in both of these underlying frequencies, though the KTP only doubles the 1024nm source light.

[@project-326]

Thank you, this a a couple of other corrections will be in part 2 of the video.

[@jimquinn]

Looking forward to 2nd video. Would purchase a few units if software was fixed. Rescaling window size, remembering parameters, and outputting CSV data are obvious must. Thank you.

[@alastairbrickell8813]

I agree...these things need to be fixed before I would buy or recommend to others.

[@stanley6602]

The signal at 21:38 is produce by the 808nm laser diode in the green laser. The green laser in the video is a DPSS(Diilde pump soild state laser). which use a 808nm laser diode as a source, then pump it to 1064nm, then frequency double to 532nm.

[@project-326]

Thanks for the feedback, several others have also pointed this out. In the next video (will be released tonight) there is a correction and a demonstration of this. Thanks!

[@Ni5ei]

This video is quite a surprise. Well done! I was considering ordering the Little Garden device through a third party company but I'll wait until part 2 of the video is released and draw my conclusions then.

[@project-326]

a good plan!

[@Posh-Arthur]

We are already busy in the 2nd part...

[@shogoonn]

In the green laser the 808 nm is the actual LED wavelength. The light gets converted to 1064 nm (fluorescence) in a Nd:YAG crystal, and after that passes through KTP crystal which doubles the frequency to 532 nm.

[@project-326]

thanks for that info. It is the very best thing about a channel like this, I get to learn from smart people!

[@Peterkramer929]

frequency doubling, how does that work? absorbing two photons, emitting one? (always thought that was impossible)

[@leandroebner1405]

​@@Peterkramer929that's basically exactly what it does. The math works out super close to both input photons only being half the output energy respectively. Even more fun, there are processes working the other way round! Look up SPDC and you'll be even more impressed :). Back in the days I built entangled photon sources by the use of UV lasers with a Type 2 BBO crystal. The process occurs only rare times and most of the UV passes straight through. Some UV photons get split into 2 red photons, also being orthogonally oriented in their polarization plane. You can "easily" dm Separate them by using Pol filters :D

[@danieljimenez1989]

@@leandroebner1405 I did SPDC generation in my masters and both generation and recombination in my phd thesis. It's one amazing process, but quite inefficient as you've mentioned. I did some calculations for BBO, but ended up doing type 0 (same polarization of both photons) in a periodically-poled KTP crystal with periodicity just over 3 um. With ~100 mW of 405 nm we got a hundred thousand pairs per second or so, and up to a few thousand recombinations per second. Recombination is ultra-challenging, both theoretically and experimentally, I think it'll be an important part of quantum signal processing in the future. One interesting thing about type 0 in PPKTP is the way you can change the phase-matching conditions with both temperature and angle of the crystal. You can get collinear-degenerate, collinear non-degenerate, or non-collinear interactions, all with the same crystal.

[@Peterkramer929]

@@leandroebner1405 I used to teach my kids that once an electron got into an excited state it would immediately(!) fall back to a lower state, emitting a few lower f (and therefore E) photons. Or perhaps one with the same f when the electron would, in one step, go to the ground state. But that it is impossible to excite an electron in two steps. What I understand from you is that you need two exact same photons at the exact same time(?) I'll look into it.

[@ghlscitel6714]

Eagerly awaiting part 2. More eagerly awaiting the availability of the product in an online shop.

[@project-326]

In progress, but please be patient, we want to be sure the manufacturer gets their head around the idea of listening to potential customers.

[@FernandoMoreiraR]

I built a crappy version of the little garden based on your tear down from the last video actually. I wanted to get one badly, but figured that it was too difficult so I tried to pull it off. I didn't use the monochrome camera, as I could find one (recently I got one, but haven't done anything with it), that said its quite limited, but was super fun to make. I love these videos, they make you think about products.

[@project-326]

OK, so I had a lot of very detailed discussion with the creator of the 'little garden' device. It seems I made a mistake in my original video. He is not buying monochrome camera (that is too expensive, due to the very low demand) but manually cleaning of the Bayer Filter. I have a lot of respect for that guy and will be including a whole segment on him in the next video.

[@project-326]

I also tried to build one myself - it really made me appreciate the 'little Garden" device a LOT more. Sometimes, its the journey that is more interesting than the destination...

[@嗯哼-e9x]

@@project-326 Cleaning a Bayer filter manually sounds crazy, but maybe you know how he does it?

[@project-326]

@@嗯哼-e9x The creator would like to keep that part secret... But I ill be showing a video of the process that he sent to me.

[@FernandoMoreiraR]

@@project-326 that would explain a lot, haha I spent hours trying to figure out if I bought the wrong camera module. Cleaning the Bayer Filter sounds like delicate work that take a lot of effort. Cant wait to see the process!

[@pmate95]

Great thingy. I hope one day someone makes it available on Aliexpress, or on other international site.

[@project-326]

Hopefully this will be on Amazon soon!

[@MaxNippard]

Thanks for the in depth review. It's a very interesting product, it would be much nicer if the apps were had the basic functionality working really reliably. The mobile apps need to find the unit faster and the PC app needs to remember settings. A USB C socket would be highly appreciated too. P.s. Please retire the slow robot voice and refrain from repeating the same information you just said when you switch to the spectrum results.

[@project-326]

@@MaxNippard We are hoping that if there are enough comments about the issues, the manufacturer will make the changes...

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

@@MaxNippard I second the suggestion to retire anything repetitive.

[@CraftAero]

@@MaxNippard How long have they been developing this device ? Haven't seen a Mini-USB connector for over a decade. 0:07

[@fwiffo]

Non-crippled software would be an improvement. An SDK would be even better.

[@project-326]

SKD is a great suggestion...

[@danieljimenez1989]

@@project-326 there is an SDK, I got the document from their website using my product number, it's very likely the same protocol. Can share if desired, just let me know of a contact address.

[@SianaGearz]

Haha i truly don't have a lot of confidence that they can write good software. SDK or hardware interfacing open documentation would allow some interesting uses. Someone needs a monitor calibrator? Might turn out better than any other.

[@project-326]

@@SianaGearz I also have a fairly low confidence, their core team is basically scientists, what they need to get to market is more engineers. Its the classic start-up problem...

[@DaveEtchells]

VERY interesting! Instant new subscriber with the bell clicked (I never do that 😮) You might have explained it in the Little Garden vid (going there right now), but I’d love to hear the details of how they get 5nm resolution out of just a few quantum dots.

[@dave7038]

Great review and cool device! Looking forward to seeing the second part! I'd suggest that non-proprietary parts of the user interface software be open source. The difficult parts are the hardware and any secret sauce they have for calibration and signal processing. The UI parts where the processed output data is displayed should be open so users can customize it or integrate it with their own tools. This would also allow users to contribute features and bug fixes back to the official UI project, improving the product for everyone.

[@project-326]

Thanks for the ideas, I hope they will be able to take these on board...

[@chuckadams842]

Option to select PDF or an SVG image output. The SVG for inclusion in scientific papers for publication.

[@crgarciamg]

I'm looking forward to the second part. For sure I am interested in the device, as long as the manufacturer does not intentionally cripple functions just to charge more without justifiable costs - I've given up on FLIR thermal imagers beacause of such behavior. One more question that was not raised in the video: why use an USB mini-B connector in 2024?

[@project-326]

There is a USB-Serial converter inside the cable housing - my guess is that because the mini-USB is not common, it help to reduce the number of people that are likely to plug it directly into a USB port...

[@grant-is]

PEACHES and a Spectrometer Review are two things I never in my life assumed would be together!

[@project-326]

;-)

[@Posh-Arthur]

Human music at its finest, in the right setting, of course...

[@leppie]

If this is just a COM port, surely you can just write translation layer and use something like ArgyllCMS. Or whatever software to your liking. Edit: Would have liked to see the insides. But I see that coming. Looks like another camera sensor. Would have thought a linear scanner CCD as better, but I guess optics would need to much better then as well as a size increase. Please keep finding these gems. Edit2: Would you mind testing these for color calibration (I see their software does do something for that with xy coords)?

[@youtubeuser6067]

We NEED people like you to evaluate the few US electronic products as well as EU products to see if feedback can help improve their products too.

[@project-326]

so many things to test, so little time...

[@chuckadams842]

Sorry to add more stuff. 1. Use the TLM-2 to check safety glasses for bandpass and attenuation regions. 2. For the big color squatters and even Home Depot: use spectrometer to check their color patches at the store with the final color of the applied paint to different surfaces. 3. I want to check for UV output for the Chinese made LED bar lamps I use at the desk for bright white reading source, electronic assembly and soldering and video lighting. 4. Looks like around a 1cm diameter of the input diffuser. When you get sunlight, I am guessing 1316W/m^2 multiplied by 0.00007854 (area ratio) = 0.1068W/m^2 input in sunlight without pollution etc. With CSV data we can do the integration for calibration or atmospheric effect measurements. Thanks for all the hard work and I can understand the two week period between videos. It is greatly appreciated. Are the background squares 1cm in your TLM-2 videos? Inquiring minds want to know.

[@project-326]

This is great, the more applications the better, a tool is only useful if it has a job to perform! I need to check on the mat, I have two, one is 1cm and the other is 1" (I do photography in 2 different locations)...

[@TLang-el6sk]

Nice device. It would be nice to have a machine readable export format. And it would be nice to have higher precision of the small device combined with the finer resolution of the bigger one.

[@leandroebner1405]

If I had time for that, I'd look into possible hacky modifications. Those devices send their simple data packets over the com part without any encryption. Don think their company would like that approach tho. But that's what happens by making silly decisions the customer has to life with.

[@Chemitronic]

Really looking forward to part 2, and ready to order one to satisfy my curious-yet-poor self! Amazing video!

[@project-326]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@zyxwvutsrqponmlkh]

Some of your extra peaks are artifacts of the way these spectrometer works and not actually in the light source. You can confirm this with some filters.

[@project-326]

I'll take a look at that in the next part of the video.

[@inductivelycoupledplasma6207]

An important note!! None of the lasers used (besides the green 532nm unit) use a frequency doubling crystal. The infrared lines are artifacts on the spectrometer.

[@project-326]

Yep, we will be adding a correction to the part 2 video.

[@inductivelycoupledplasma6207]

@@project-326 cool, looking forward to seeing it

[@fucku2b]

It just uses serial port? That's cool! It sucks that it doesn't have "export to CSV" but I'd love to try to "reverse-engineer" the communication.

[@project-326]

me too, I will probably take a look, at least to see if the data has any encryption included.

[@BrooksMoses]

@@project-326 : I'd definitely be interested in a followup video on what you find out. This would pretty much make the difference in whether I'll buy it from Amazon when it comes out or not. On the other hand, I presume their "magic" algorithms are all in the computer-or-mobile-device side of things rather than in the hardware, so the serial data isn't going to be as precise, and probably isn't calibrated to luminosity levels. So having an "export to CSV" function and/or an SDK to allow another program to access the calibrated data might be more useful. My applications for this would be combining it with a broad-spectrum light source to experiment with looking at spectra of reflected light, which means that being able to post-process the data from the device is of critical importance.

[@jmi967]

@@BrooksMosesSame, I won’t touch it in its current state out of principle until someone reverse engineers it.

[@James-fe7wd]

This is such a cool channel Max, you are a wealth of knowledge. So happy I stumbled across you today, surprised it took as long as it did.

[@project-326]

Welcome aboard!

[@kornrat8284]

To the manufacturer: I direly want a spectral analyzer tool. if you add a CSV export OR a CRI rating, I would try to buy it if it is available in Germany. Please add CSV export or CRI measurement

[@project-326]

Thanks for the feedback!

[@leandroebner1405]

CRI would be neat!!!

[@project-326]

@@leandroebner1405 That's a really nice suggestion, let's mention that to Torch Bearer as well!

[@Neptunium]

Ah ! another great video from Project 326 at last! You my friend are going places! really enjoy your videos! Salute!

[@project-326]

As I enjoy your videos too Sir!

[@Neptunium]

@@project-326 👍😊

[@Dazdigo]

I want to get one as well. Having a CSV data output would be great as well because then we can run in through other applications or just save it in a database for future reference and calibration.

[@gregvisioninfosoft]

its a definite requirement for it to be useful. such a calculating cie-lab color temperature calculations.

[@leandroebner1405]

You'll run into a dead end pretty soon when you can't to anything with the data you measured. Agreed. Not a total dealbreaker because that thing in that price range is less a scientific tool and more a fun nerdy gadget

[@fblua]

Excellent video. Thank you. One thing, I think you should put a pure black of an inch just in front of the emitter and the receptor (spectrometer), the objetive is to achieve optical engagement without the reflection of other surfaces, in this case the rubber you use. The emitter projects its radiation on the rubber and contaminate part of the rays reach the recepto. Of course, there are a lot of other variables to control; e.g., vacuum, humidity, distance, air composition, etc., etc., but at least, I suggest, you can control the distance between the tubes. I mean: emitter + 0 mm + 2.54 mm (the output non-reflective tube) + 2.54 mm (air distance) + 2.54 mm (the input non-reflective tube) + 0 mm + spectrometer-receptor. Maybe, maybe not, it would improve the results. What do you think? Anyhow, I just want to thank you for your video; I would love to have that marvellous hardware you can get in China. I would make "gun shape form" or pointer, spectrometer; with a laser telemeter to adjust the efect of distance of the surrounding gases (mostly cases air.) I would make may own typical base measurements to stablish sets of spectrographic data base; as well the corrections due to distance, angle or another variable that would apply. And app and small devise like that would be easy for ordinary citizen usage than other portable radioactive spectrographs. It should be quite use full to very quick draft material checks: canvas, woods, metals, cristal, food, etc.,

[@peterwoolliams1283]

One issue that cheap array spectrometers suffer from is straylight, especially excess signal In the blue/UV. Grading instruments can have order sorting filters and multiple gratings to eliminate. This one has some filtration on the pixels and a magic algorithm. I’d have done some tests with a broadband source and a thick bit of various schott coloured filters, see if you get any signal where you should see none. You could also check you “higher order effect” hypothesis by filtering the source so there is no light in that spectral region and then seeing if the higher order lines appear. Calibrated, how, against what and for what sources? Interesting little device. No numbers out is no sales made. No way to check noise floor, stray light etc. roll on part 2.

[@project-326]

indeed. So much is not defined but that only means that there is more to learn...

[@John-gw3mj]

Like you said, CSV export is pretty important. The other thing I'd like to see is the software being open source so there are no questions about its safety.

[@project-326]

I don't think they would release their software open source, but perhaps an SDK is a good compromise...

[@iCatch]

Great review! Hope you could mention that most engineering filaments requires an enclosure or even a actively heated enclosure to print, which is not obvious for people who has never printed them.

[@StephanBuchin]

The dots look like a super Bayer filter.

[@project-326]

I was saving some more info for the 2nde part of the video, but the camera module is actually a monochrome type, according to the manufacturer.

[@ericstephenson9924]

great. love the style. love the color names.

[@project-326]

Thanks so much!

[@RoyaltyInTraining.]

I'd just listen in on the com port, figure out the protocol, and generate the CSV with reverse engineered software. I doubt it's that hard to do.

[@project-326]

It's certainly worth trying that, let's hope that didn't try to encrypt the data to prevent that...

[@danieljimenez1989]

@@project-326 I have a different version of their spectrometer, the PJG3, which came with the information regarding the serial port commands and data packets. This may be useful for your purposes. The data isn't encrypted from the looks of it. The document is in chinese, but translation by machine seemed to have worked very well. Now, I can't actually test it yet because they don't have the pinout for the TTL interface printed or written anywhere! The PJG3 version has no usb output, but rather a 4 pin serial interface that is completely unmarked and doesn't come with a pinout diagram (nor is it included in the manual for the client interface or for the SDK). So, I've written to the company just yesterday to inquire about this. Their Alibaba store is offline now, so I had to write to their email. No answer yet, I sent them a machine translation version a few hours ago, hopefully they'll come through and provide this info. Cheers!

[@TheUserbob123]

I love your channel and just wanted to make you aware I prefer long fourm videos. Making the videos shorter trims out your humorous side and the depth of the information provided.

[@project-326]

Thanks for the tip!

[@spastickitchen]

I have that exact 450 nm pointer. It is not a DPSSL, it's direct eiode, so there should be no IR emission. I would suspect the same for the 410 nm, not that DPSSL is impossible, but they would cost more than 10x as much as a direct diode laser. Looking at the spectral width, I am fairly sure these should both be direct diode lasers. You should be able to tell by which way the batteries are inserted, or, you might be able to open them up to see the module. The 532 nm, however, is indeed, more likely, DPSSL, pumped with an 808 nm IR laser, so that is reassuring... however, the artefacts for the near UV lasers is concerning to me. I'm 98% sure something is wrong with the spectromeret... higher order diffraction or some other interference, rather than an issue with the laser. Still, though, both products are interesting to me. If they are available in the USA for under $150, I'd seriously consider these. If they go higher than that, they'll already be in competition with other super-low cost spectrometers that seem to have fewer reported bugs.

[@project-326]

Yup, if figured that out from some other comments. I will be making some corrections in the next part of the video. Thank you for the corrections, learning is something I never want to stop doing and having people that know something I don't, point out mistakes in the comments is a positive experience for me.

[@demikweer]

Thanks, very thorough video. But there is one thing that annoys me: the glass breakage sound after the titles.

[@project-326]

I try different experiments in each video for the chapter titles, the results are not always ideal. Thank you for the feedback!

[@mariusbendiksen163]

800-830nm line is the pump diode that drives the 1064nm that gets doubled.

[@project-326]

Thank you for the feedback, other have pointed this out too, in part 2 of the video, we will be making some corrections.

[@AM-jw1lo]

Yes we need a data export file, that is if you are trying to promote people to uses this in applications other than pretty pictures. That said, since i get to say something that might help in development, could you please cut the music loop, to hear the same thing over and over really made it hard to get to the end of the video and i certainly will have issue with part 2. Otherwise, nice.

[@project-326]

I will try and make changes to the next video, thanks for the feedback though!

[@raymitchell9736]

Yes, I hope that they can fix these deficiencies. I'm interested in purchasing a low-cost spectrometer; I have a product I'm developing that I need a tool such as this to explore the light sources I plan to use in it! Upfront: The Functionality and Price will be determining factors in my purchase decision. I agree with the criticism about the software's abilities, they need to be improved. Please, do spend some more time to polish it up before releasing. Even the ability to connect to that 3rd party's open source software might be a good way to get it there, just a suggestion. I think it is wonderful to have an opportunity to communicate and be part of the community that helps shape the product's we use! And for the manufacturer, it must be a great opportunity for you to get direct and useful feedback by the customers. In any event, I'm looking forward to part 2 and see if we made a difference. Thanks a bunch!

[@project-326]

yes, I am hoping that the manufacturer will be responsive too. What I really like about this unit is the size. It now lives in my work bag on a permanent basis...

[@BloodAsp]

I would be interested in one of these, but only if the suggested improvements in the video were made, and especially if the software for it was made to be open source. An additional suggestion would be for it to be USB-C compatible.

[@project-326]

its using the old Mini-USB because its not USB, but serial UART. There is a USB-UART converter in the cable itself. Hopefully they can improve that too.

[@DennisSantos]

Regarding the green laser: The small IR peak is from the IR pumping diode which then goes through two crystals which do the frequency doubling, etc. This green laser appears to adequately filter out the IR but many do not. Edit: You mention this with the violet laser. I see this video took a while to put together, LOL

[@project-326]

Thank you, I have already be 'educated' in that aspect by another kind viewer. The thing I like best about making these videos is that there are always people with more knowledge to learn from. I didn't realize that the green laser was a 3 stage process. Its amazing how much technology can be crammed into a $10 laser pointer...

[@DennisSantos]

@@project-326 They're cheap as chips today but i remember when green pointers cost the earth in the earliest days of the internet. BTW, they now make fully SS 488mn blueish-green ones with just the diode - I own one. I need to develop my own YT channel with all the tech junk I've accrued over the years. LOL. I'm glad you welcomed my earlier explanation on this public forum and I'm certainly learning a lot from your good self. Can't wait for the second half.

[@leandroebner1405]

​@@project-326DPSS are nowadays some of the cheapest lasers which is crazy when you think about how complex their optical path actually is

[@leandroebner1405]

​@@DennisSantosyes please. KZbin needs more creators in that field, always!!

[@project-326]

@@leandroebner1405 I was one of those that worked on early CD player technology, the whole CD mechanism and OPU ended up costing less than $1.50 in serious volume, in particular the Sanyo DA11 was just an amazing piece of optical technology for its time that somehow also had the distinction of costing the same as a candy bar... If that same technology had been developed for the military, each CD mechanism would have cost about $150K...

[@timrutter]

Very interesting product. Hope the mfr make available some tools or libraries to use this on Linux or for integration into other projects

[@project-326]

I hope so too

[@valseedian]

the infrared peaks on the green laser could be the diffuser heating up

[@project-326]

Turns out the IR peaks are from the diode pumping architecture of the laser. I put some errata into the latest video on the 'little garden' spectrometer. That errata is equally applicable for this video.

[@artiem5262]

I am very interested in this device, if it has iOS support and CSV data output!

[@anoirbentanfous]

The potential of this product is evident, but the manufacturer needs to enhance its software and address any issues. They should strive to create a highly marketable product, where the design and features are of utmost importance. Integrating AI capabilities into the software could take the product to the next level.

[@patrickdegenaar9495]

Wow.. i love it! I still remember using room sized monochromators (25 years ago) with a knob to manually rotate through each wavelength - used to take 4 hours to get a reading!!! Specifically on the device, the physics looks sound! The key thing is to be able to easily get raw data out, have quick analysis, and perhaps upload target spectra to the mobile/tablet. Also if it canbgenerate CIE coordinates, that woukd be great. Finally lower the price, tge more people will use it, but there needs to be a good build quality. I'm looking forward to buying one!

[@ryanmckenna6763]

I WANT ONE!

[@project-326]

Hopefully the device will be available on Amazon soon...

[@chuckadams842]

This is indeed a fantastic find. Many thanks for the video. I will be at the opening gate to buy one as soon as Amazon has them online. I want one to measure twilight colorimetry to match a paper I did almost 50 years ago. Was in the process of building a DIY spectrometer, but now I can relax and await the opening bell for the TLM-2. Another test I'm interested in. Variable incandescent lamp to measure blackbody curve vs temperature for calibration. Question: Has anyone checked for heating in the diffuser as a possible source for the IR contribution?

[@codebeat4192]

'Posh' Arthur is actually Brian (text-to-speech), used at "Go Animate".

[@project-326]

It might sound a bit like that one, but actually its from a different source.

[@KevanShaw]

This kind of affordable spectrometer is really useful for lighting designers and others invo!ved in architectural lighting design for confirmation of product specification. Also increasingly important in other areas of professional lighting such as photography and videography. So far the product seems pretty good for our kinds of use with sufficient resolution and accuracy. Typically the output format in PDF isOK if we have enough detail and refencesto ISO and CIE standards however CSV is necessary For calculating colour fidelity and also for melanopic effectiveness through standard tools freely available from IES and CIE. Price in the market is also important as will be thelevel of calibration against traceable standards to NIST or other international standards. Also how about recalibration? If it is cheap enough and calibration from new is warrantied for say 2 years then replace that would be good enough if the unit is cheap enough. Currently I need to replace my existing spectrophotometer as the company who made it are out of business and it cannot be recalibrated also there is no software support for it

[@project-326]

These are all really good questions that I hope the manufacturer will be able to have answers too!

[@alwayscurious413]

Brilliant video and product. I’d argue that they are locking out the CSV export whilst they figure out the business model. There’s maybe 2000 one off spectrometer hobbyists who’d buy this for home use and that’s the market done. I’m in already. However if you integrate it into another mass market volume product such as a vehicle or specialised lighting product then your market becomes scalable. I’d reckon that’s where this is headed.

[@project-326]

Thank you for the comment. Some of my own thoughts... Each time I use this device, I seem to find a new application. For example, our IR chroma-key video, it was useful for seeing how spectrally pure a commercial green screen actually was (answer, not very). Amateur film makers will find this useful and because of the low cost, photographers can now have a much better tool than the 3 color sensors that are normally used. Anyone involved in pro lighting is also a potential customer. Basic class room education is also opened up, instead of a high school having one $2000 system to share between all classes, there can be more devices available. Anyone involved in the print and finishing industry, QA technicians and product designers. The list just gets longer each time I think about it... This device has earned a valuable place in my work bag, I am really strict about what I carry around but its really useful for far more things than I ever imagined. As for the company, as a tech start-up, their core team are basically scientists and PhD's, so I hope that they can get the help they need with the product marketing going forward.

[@jmi967]

The Sanatorium White led needs a high pass filter to get it closer to sunlight

[@SianaGearz]

With this device and your acumen for naming, Posh-Arthur is certain to be the next successful colour squatter.

[@KaiseruSoze]

It needs a notch filter and csv output. I wouldn't buy it without both of these features.

[@SteveBakerIsHere]

Needs a Linux version - for applications using Raspberry Pi - and a SIMPLE numerical output, like CSV is 100% essential.

[@Chakrawat-Pakshii]

Very nicely explained and demonstrated! I wanted to look for different lines of emission from pure hydrogen spectra; particularly of Balmer & Paschen series. I wanted to get assured about the same! Or whether we were just tought to be so! Thanks.

[@project-326]

That is exactly why I like to make experiments on this channel, nothing beats seeing stuff for yourself, even if the results are way less impressive than from a professional lab. The reason people still buy telescopes is for exactly the same reason, nobody can beat the Hubble of JWST images but those are someone else's results. Seeing a tiny, dim, fuzzy, monochrome image of the rings of Saturn, with your own eyes, beats all of those beautiful on-line images from the pros. I'm going to look into finding a low pressure H2 tube...

[@EdTannenbaum]

There should be CSV output, but I wonder if the pdf might be able to be "read" by Chat GPT which would output what it "saw" in your format of choice? Edit: I just tried it with Claude and it told me that the resolution of the chart I gave it wasn't good enough for accurate reading. I'd like to see the PDF output of this instrument. If high enough resolution it may work.

[@DonnyHooterHoot]

I prefer Arthur over Max, but I know I'll lose this one. Peace!

[@project-326]

let's see how things progress. "Posh Arthur" will be remaining as a fixture on this channel.

[@Posh-Arthur]

I will be here in all videos, keeping my human pets in check.

[@daverei1211]

This is an amazing solution seeking a problem to solve…..

[@project-326]

You are right but... Once I started playing with spectrometers, I just keep finding new things to point it at. Something so small and low cost, even has applications for professional lighting, even for YT creators. For me, it was like a Swiss army knife, that one accessory you never used until one day finding out what it is actually for and then realizing how useful it is.

[@daverei1211]

@@project-326 thinking about it, if say it’s built into a phone then it could be useful as a fruit/veg freshness picker. On an XY robot could be used to step scan artworks for potential mismatches/fraud. At low cost could be used in ATMs as another way of checking for fraudulent bills. But probably the best application if it could handle range could be for industrial level robot agriculture where the robot checks the spectrum of the plant leaf to work out its health and use this to determine individual plant care. Another (but would require significant investment to certify) is skin scans for cancer - I’m assuming different types of skin cancer would have a different spectra to normal skin.

[@project-326]

@@daverei1211 Spectrometers of all types just have a wealth of information to give. That is why I now carry this device almost everywhere I go. Its great for the kids, we can see something and then the kids, they get a great visualization of what light actually is when they are playing with it. My 10 year old daughter has now understood that 'white' LEDs are actually blue LEDs with 'yellow stuff' that makes other colors.

[@firstmkb]

I’d be interested in seeing flame tests of some chemicals just for variety. Not table salt, but something more complex. I could see buying one of these when they have CSV, although I don’t need it.

[@project-326]

Almost everything I own, technically, I don't NEED.

[@firstmkb]

I have to tell you about my favorite named color of all time! I was looking at paint samples at the hardware store and the best name was “Bluish.” How overstrained from inventing new color names does your brain have to be to say “Well, it’s not blue, but it’s blue-ish”?

[@project-326]

that is definitely a case of creative-fatigue in action...

[@jensschroder8214]

A reasonable software in English is a prerequisite for international marketing. Is it so difficult to remember the language and the COM port? Is it that difficult to install a usable image export?

[@davidlanday6102]

Cool! Are there any miniature NIR or MIR spectrometers in a similar form factor?

[@Chakrawat-Pakshii]

I wanted to know more about creation of monochromatic source of light and embodying the same into a Laser! What does the terms ‘Source Wave Length’ and its multiplicand’ means? How the mulltiplication of frequency of light is achieved, in practice?

[@AppliedCryogenics]

I love this content. I'm not worried about watching an hour's worth of it for sure!

[@project-326]

that's a very heart warming sentiment, thank you

[@panomaniac5399]

Clever device, good video. Pity about the software. If the user interface is that bad, no user will want to use it. It would be well worth it to the manufacturer to improve the software.

[@project-326]

I'm hoping that they will make some changes...

[@j7ndominica051]

I wonder what the spectrum of various video monitors is. If some are more narrow-band than others, and which are the better ones. We already know or look up common lighting sources.

[@project-326]

that is an interesting experiment we might include in part 2 of this video...

[@davestorm6718]

5nm resolution is still pretty bad. I'm just spoiled on real diffraction gratings, I suppose.

[@project-326]

As I am carrying this device in my small laptop bag, I have realized that 5nm is not ideal but certainly good enough for a lot more applications than I have initially expected. It's quite surprising what you can do with even this limited resolution...

[@daomingjin]

i live in shenzhen... so i'm certainly going to get one....

[@jmirodg7094]

I would be interested by the TM2 however no access to the data no purchase! put an open-source software on it pls. Finally the mini USB plug is outdated. Cables start to be harder to find.

[@project-326]

I think they chose a mini-USB because it is now just a USB cable, it is the USB-Serial converter and people are less likely to plug in a standard USB cable buy accident. At least that's my conclusion...

[@jmirodg7094]

@@project-326 I'm not sure to fully understand. usb to serial you normally plug it to a normal usb port on your computer it work with usb-C as well all Arduino like stuffs use that no issue. Now if i have to understand that they use a mini usb plug for a different purpose than usb that is a drama guaranteed recipe as someone will end plugging this in a computer usb plug generating a magic smoke emission.

[@electrobus5095]

I want to order one so badly 😍

[@project-326]

As soon as the product is released, I will let everyone know.

[@electrobus5095]

​@@project-326any news on a timeline here? Otherwise i would probably buy the other one you reviewed.

[@crayzeape2230]

It does what I need for the most part, but having no CSV export is a deal breaker.

[@project-326]

let's see how they respond to the first video...

[@BRUXXUS]

Another fantastic video! Even with the better accuracy and interesting technology in the TLM-2, I would still much, MUCH rather just make my own spectrometer so I could use software that's actually useful. If I could use the TLM-2 with open source software, or if the company software didn't feel and look like spyware from 1998, it would be an instant buy. So, Torchbearer can choose to gate-keep functional software behind a paywall, and get $0 of my money, or put out a useful product and at least get some of my money.

[@project-326]

Let's see if they are responsive - I just emailed them with the video link...

[@leandroebner1405]

​@@project-326well, you already scared the living hell out of Bosean, hopefully they will take that good amount of honest into account for further reconsiderations :D

[@project-326]

@@leandroebner1405 A little fear keep manufacturers honest and response to their customers needs. Actually, I have been impressed with the responsiveness of companies like Measall and Bosean. The winds of change, they are a blowin'.

[@cosmoscarl4332]

You should have made Max stutter or glitch audibly for authenticity. Then he would be more like Max Headroom.

[@project-326]

good thinking :-)

[@bartekpoznan]

Fantastic video Thanks a lot! Have you tried doing any absorption spectra?

[@project-326]

We are looking at 'maybe' doing some raman spectroscopy, but that depends on the costs involved. We have been also doing some experiments with the spectra of various plasma. We might be able to think up some interesting experiments in that area if we get time.

[@zyxwvutsrqponmlkh]

This channel going to blow up.

[@leandroebner1405]

Indeed. And I'm incredibly happy KZbin gained another good channel for informative science

[@ChrisBrennanSF]

Sorry to be that guy but you should have locked the white balance on the camera shooting the test footage. It shifts noticeably when you change light sources.

[@ChrisBrennanSF]

Great work though - I appreciate the video!!

[@project-326]

I use my phone to make the videos (don't have the kind of cash to be buying pro camera gear yet) and I can't fix the exposure or WB on that. For photos, there is a 'pro' mode that lets me adjust anything I want, but for video Its just a choice of two f-stops...

[@leandroebner1405]

But I like the suggestion. Makes total sense to comment on that ^^

[@project-326]

@@leandroebner1405 Yes, particularly when the subject matter is "optical technology"... It drives me mad, I bought this XiaoMi phone because it has an enormous array of optics - never realized that video was going to have zero settings.

[@leandroebner1405]

@@project-326 you can try using a third party app. Most of the HW supports manual features, it's just not implemented in the OEM firmware of camera apps. There's an android app called "open camera". Either you find it in your app store or you can search for an .APK file to use it. It's open source by Mark Harman

[@titussteenhuisen8864]

wouldn’t mind buying if it is a little better I am interested in different light colours

[@marsrocket]

I’m surprised they could even find a usb mini b port to put on it.

[@project-326]

the cable is a USB-UART converter...

[@leandroebner1405]

As long it's not an old pink parallel port xD

[@jmi967]

Might you try using the TLM-2 to check if the Little Garden could me used for luminosity measurements?

[@project-326]

Yes, that is good idea, to create a calibration curve for exported data from the little garden...

[@geraldcecil7644]

I just found it on aliexpress, a few left and about $75 delivered to USA.

[@geraldcecil7644]

Ooops, Little Garden not TLM-2. I ordered the former, hope to see the latter soon!

[@Nullsing]

I ordered the little garden from China after saw you video - its working surprising nice. Also I prefer you keep the robotic voice instead of real human voice 😆😆

[@project-326]

From TaoBao directly?

[@Nullsing]

@@project-326 Yes, taobao official cainiao shipping service. Cost is very low and deliver within 2 weeks for the economics one

[@Nullsing]

@@project-326 Also want to add that I ordered KC761B the same way as well. Works wonderfully too

[@Nullsing]

@@project-326 For some reason youtube keeps deleting my comment..do you have email that I can contact you directly?

[@windysynth]

Definitely needs a way to get the data into other software--like csv file output. But with that, the company I work for would buy several of them.

[@project-326]

Nice comment! I hope that sinks in with the manufacturer!

[@SjoerdBeukers]

Nice vid! I would lose the text-to-speech to be honest.

[@project-326]

That's a tough one. All the previous videos on this channel only had 'posh Arthur' as the narrator, this is the first one with a human voice and already some regular viewers are worried that Arthur will be fired. People seem to have a very wide spectrum of opinions on this subject...

[@Posh-Arthur]

That would be a sad loss! 😉

[@charlesb4714]

Exciting. I want one but can't find any place to buy it. A link to where you got yours would ne nice

[@project-326]

As mentioned in the video, it isn't available in the west yet, but the company is planning to release on Amazon soon (part 2 of the video is planned for when that happens). I added the TaoBao store details where I got this product from to the video description, but this only works from China...

[@resist_or_die]

The app is ok but if the device cannot provide output to extant non-proprietary tools then I'm not interested.

[@tortysoft]

So, how much will/do they cost?

[@project-326]

I don't know yet. Mine cost around $50 USD here in CN on TaoBao but on Amazon there are going to be the extra costs of Amazon's margin (4 x higher than TaoBao) and shipping, logistics and fulfillment. I'm kind of guessing it will be over $60 once it reaches Amazon. Just a guess though...

[@brianclimbs1509]

I like how he compares them to Keysight and Rhode and Schwarz blocking features. They might be a bit cocky there. I think a large portion of the market they are aiming for will need the .CSV output. Then the user can write code for their specific application. I highly doubt this startup will have the resources to write sufficiently versatile and polished software for the myriad possible applications.

[@BD-cm7xc]

Does ionizable radiation make the florescent coating on LEDs glow? what is the strength of this ionizable radiation? Can florescent coated LEDs visually indicate the presence of fallout? Assume they had these LEDs in Pripyat will they see unpowered glowing LEDs? Also does ionizable radiation damage the florescent coating? Another question. Since florescent material degrade with time will florescent coated LEDs lose their color after decades?

[@project-326]

Well that's a good few questions... OK, so fluorescent materials are used as scintillation crystals in devices like gamma ray spectrometers, but each type of fluorescent material has different wavelengths that it will be excited by. I would doubt that the materials used for LED production would be useful for gamma rays. Another issue is the number of photons. gamma rays have a LOT more energy per photon, if you had a gamma ray source that emitted the same number of photons as just a small LED, you would basically have a death ray on your hands! Because the number of gamma rays photons is pretty low in the background, gamma ray scintillation crystals need to be connected to detectors that can be sensitive to just single photon events. Radium watch dials, for example, lose their luminosity in a few decades as the fluorescent material crystal structure becomes damaged by years of alpha particle bombardment, and stop glowing. The dangerous thing about that is that the Ra-224 has a half-life of about 1600 years. People often think that dials that no longer glow are no longer radioactive which can lead to some poor decision making in the disposal of the dials. I would assume that there will be a small amount of similar damage by a 450nm blue photon on an LED flourescent coating, but given that the energy of a photon at these wavelengths is about 10^9 times lower, I would assume that the damage would accumulate a billion times more slowly.

[@denverbraughler3948]

It’s not true that Apollo considered every possible failure. They didn’t even bother to test the heaters on the oxygen tanks to make sure the voltage input was correct. They took lots of shortcuts and made assumptions that humans were a lot less fallible than in reality.

[@silentbob1236]

So, what are you, Max Headroom's brother or something? Pretty cool gadget, If I needed one, I would probably buy it.

[@terrypitt-brooke8367]

I ❤ Posh Arthur. Nice 80s reference with "Max Entropy"--I miss Max Headroom and the first two seasons of Reboot. As a science hobbist who is poor and can generally only afford old devices, I'd appreciate a computer program that would work on Windows 7 or iOS 12. I also strongly concur with the call for CSV export capability

[@tyhuffman5447]

Looks like a great-ish product with some software needs. Get the software dialed in.

[@project-326]

lets hope so, I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink...