A Treatise On Classpecting

Text version (now with an even more extensive example chart): ouroborista.neocities.org/art...
Vriska did nothing wrong: • Vriska Did Nothing Wro...
More Homestuck-stuff by me: ouroboros.cafe/#homestuck
My book: www.amazon.com/dp/B0B7Q3DXSY/...
That's really all there is to say on the matter.
Timestamps:
0:00:00 - Introduction
0:03:24 - What are Aspects?
0:08:25 - The Aspects
0:22:54 - Aspect Symmetries
0:35:40 - What are Classes?
0:38:46 - The Classes
0:52:40 - Class Symmetries
1:06:34 - Lunar Sway
1:09:03 - Notes
1:14:45 - Examples
1:27:55 - Epilogue

[@ouroborista]

KZbin has been recommending this video to people outside of the HS-Bubble recently, so if you're horrifically confused right now, this is for you: Classpecting is a personality-matrix from the webcomic Homestuck. Figures in this story are assigned a title composed of a Class and an Aspect (hence "Classpecting") which affects their powers and their role in the narrative based on characteristic traits. This guide aims to help people assign these titles to themselves and others for the purpose of roleplay, introspection or just plain fun. You do not need to be familiar with Homestuck to understand this system, but a number of allusions will be lost on you. Hope that clears things up.

[@nemesisurvivorleon]

thank you sir as I was one of those horrifically confused individuals. I literally watch tons of videos on archetypes systems, psychology, taoism, and other philosophies... but at the same time also videos on strategy RPG team builds. So I started the video and tried to guess which game or religion this must have been from. Apparently it is from the religion of Homestuck.

[@ChloeAriT]

@@nemesisurvivorleon both a game and a religion, but actually a secret third thing

[@rmt3589]

Ah. That explains so much! Thought the symbols looked homestuck-y. Still at the part where the meteor is coming down. Was expecting a rpg class thing.

[@kylewalton2369]

You didn’t have to explain this, but I really appreciate it. I clicked on it expecting an unusual D&D video. Two minutes in and I fully realized I had absolutely no idea what was going on. Your explanation has intrigued me enough to watch this fully a little later.

[@CM-di1oz]

@@nemesisurvivorleon yeah I fell the same, clicking on the video I assumed it had something to do with RPG's and after the intro I thought it was like a analytical phychology like mbti or the like Enneagram personality types.

[@hellomoonart]

best kind of youtube content: nerd talking very passionate about some piece of media for around an hour

[@Parzivle]

This should be submitted to a university. I haven’t been into homestuck for years and this is one of the most evidence based and scholarly pieces I’ve ever seen on the subject of classpecting I’ve ever seen. Back in 2014-2016 we really just threw shit at the wall and reskinned a myers-briggs test or smth.

[@ouroborista]

Oh gee, I'm blushing. Thank you!

[@nikolaigrimm5196]

I think I'm having a mental crisis. For a while now, I have considered myself Void-Bound, possibly a Sylph or Seer or such. I like mysteries, answers being vague or altogether non-existent, and find myself retreating to nothingness as a means to deal with things. The dark, for me, has never held the fear others associate it with. Either literal or figurative. And yet, answers themselves, no matter how vague or obscured, hold a great value to me. Especially in the finding. So many times I have gone through lengthy chains of page after page, or searched through multiple sources of text, just for a single grain of information. And what have I so often done with these obscure pieces? Yes, I have helped others with it, re-telling what I have learned, bringing Light to the front. But the true joy, the thing that brings a full smile to my face and fills me with laughter.....is when I can share the cursed stuff. Hearing people struggle with comprehending something, or watching as they try to wrap their head around some Lovecraftian-level conundrum or paradox that I so happily placed before them. I fuck around with Light. I am a Bard of Light.

[@ouroborista]

Hell yeah! Glad to have aided in your breakthrough. Have fun literally finding out as you fuck around

[@yannikovsky7041]

got into homestuck a couple of weeks ago and ngl classpec system is one of the best fictional mayers briggs type of classifications i have ever seen in media. once the subject was brough up in the story i really couldnt take my eyes off of it. thank you for your paper! i know hussie can be somewhat cynical of classpecs subject, but my god did they do really good job at giving just enough to speculate but not enough to have concrete answers. if my own fictional classificaion system would have been analyzed in a similar manner i would simply cry out of pure joy

[@ouroborista]

It's always really exciting to hear that people are still getting into Homestuck these days. It's such a wonderful assortment of works and I wish you a disorienting and invigorating ride with all it has to offer. Thank you for the flattery. I'd probably feel the same if someone, let alone a whole community, put this much effort into analyzing my works

[@AlgaeAle]

"I would apologize for the inconvenience if you weren't so massively indebted to me" you're SO right for that one, but also, and I mean this in THE most offensive way I am physically able to after such a good line and such a compelling script, that was the most Seer phrase I have ever heard. You're such a Seer, and I cannot believe I didn't realize that BEFORE the hour-long essay on Classpecting.

[@ouroborista]

I would be offended if I weren't literally the originator of the phrase "seers think that the only reason you might disagree with them is that they haven't said enough words at you (yet)". I deserve it. Seer [derogatory] is absolutely a fair assessment. Glad you enjoyed it

[@grizlo6716]

Oh hey! This is the document I've been using to help classpect my friends and various characters i enjoy! It may seem silly to some but realizing I was a Witch of Void was kind of a huge landmark for me in terms of self-actualization. I'm a person that struggles to understand myself and my patterns, and while this is just a simple hero title, I find it goes a lot deeper in the way that you chose to present them, patterns of behavior, what gets you out of bed in the morning, how you deal with challenges greater than yourself. Thank you for writing this, I will hold this document with me for the foreseeable future, even if I'm met with eyerolls I'll die on the hill of this being legitimately incredible

[@ouroborista]

Thanks, though I'm kind of sorry to hear that you live in an environment in which cringe culture hasn't been sufficiently killed yet. The impulse to discount or scoff at paths of self exploration based on their aesthetic backdrop or cultural connotation alone strikes me as deeply insecure and somewhat self sabotaging. No person has ever managed to create art which does not spring from -and is thus intimately intermeshed- with the human condition. Meaning is ubiquitous, snobbery is an instrument of social control. To be unable to extract something interesting out of any part of our decentralised artistic canon is a skill issue as the kids say.

[@Queer_Nerd_For_Human_Justice]

Oh NO, i'm rejoining the fandom 😬 This type of analysis is exactly what Hussie was making fun of, and I'm here for it

[@ouroborista]

It's only fair. I make enough fun of Hussie, they get to make fun of me

[@AlphaPizzadog]

A light player would be a speedrunner A void player would be a dataminer Any other aspect -> gamer analogies you can think of?

[@ouroborista]

Well, I'm quite lacking in terms of familiarity with that medium, but I discussed the question with some friends who are better versed in the videoed games. First of all there's definitely different modes of engagement which can stem from an Aspect and they quite plausibly overlap. For example speedrunning is a very Vriska-take on Light, whereas we see Rose and Aranea writing guides and compiling lore respectively. All of those are obviously Light coded in their own ways. Data mining similarly is certainly void coded, but so would be a focus on insignificant mini games and tasks which don't contribute to actual progression. This would be an analogue to Equius' building and breaking of robots for example. So here are some (non-exclusive) ideas: -Breath might tend to be adamantly casual with a "just do what's fun to you" attitude. (We actually see tavros doing that with flarp) - I can see Life as the collector archetype - Time probably has a better claim to speedrunning than Light. Also combos maybe? - Heart-bounds as role-players is pretty obvious - Rage might have fun with using mechanics in unintended way and playing a meta game against the developers -Blood talks to every NPC - Doom players might be into games with no real win condition or wch subvert player agency, but I can't think of a distinct playstyle for them -Space might get really into character/environment customisation. Also modding maybe? - Mind may impose additional rules on itself and treat them dead seriously. Kind of a nuzlocke approach - Hope would seek to fully immerse itself in the world of the game Hope that's vaguely what you were looking for

[@windego64]

​@@ouroborista I think Breath player are the completionist the one who do side quests. Quest is a theme located in the breath bubble. Tavros cares about the lore of the land and john do quests without thinking twice (Vriska and Terezi) leading to his demise

[@Moonsong227]

A blood player would be a pacifist run player

[@flamingpi2245]

Light-bounds would be futzers, ones who absolutely must know everything about the game, all of its secrets, all of its plot points and locations, every Easter egg, every possible item or character interaction, they would be the ultimate completionists Meanwhile void-bounds would be content stumbling across any secrets they could find, enjoying the sense of mystery and not worrying about the roads not taken

[@flamingpi2245]

Think of it like this. Light bounds would read a choose your own adventure book by going through every single possible path systematically I also feel like that’s a mindy thing too

[@naiolio3725]

ive rewatched this video several times now and each time i come closer to writing a meandering self-indulgent essay about rage and my personal journey through it (but ive never written a personal essay and i doubt that i have anything to add to the discussion that much smarter and more dedicated people havent said long before.) still, i think that most artists would be touched to hear that their work went so far as to inspire others to create their own art. so, thanks for making this. - derse-leaning prince of rage

[@ouroborista]

That does indeed mean a lot. Inspiring people to make more art is the highest goal I could possibly aspire to. If you do end up writing your essay I would be delighted to read it, and I very much do encourage you to try your hand at it. Our own thoughts never seem all that groundbreaking or interesting to us, simply by way of the fact that they're part of our cognitive background noise. We know them in and out and so we assume that others feel the same, but that simply is not true most of the time, and you never know what idea might be important to another person until you get it out. The "I've never written a personal essay" qualifier will not go away until you start somewhere. Anywhere. However small and however unpolished, it will mean that you have some experience when the impulse strikes again. I hope this isn't coming across as a platitude, I know the feeling, but some time will always have to be the first time, and the sooner one gets around to it the better. I wish you all the best, and thank you!

[@jenny_azoth]

speaking as a diagnosed Lightbound, this is gr8ly appreci8ed! ✨️

[@brooklyngray1527]

I've been working on my own classpecting essay for a few months, and it's bizarre how similar your writing is to mine. It's literally word for word in some sections, all with stuff I haven't posted, or even seen anyone else discuss. I had a bit where I talked about horizontal and vertical pairs across the aspect wheel, although I called it "mirroring" and attempted to talk about relationships between those bound to each aspect. I was working on this big spreadsheet of characters for each class/aspect like you, and not only did we choose a lot of the same characters, but almost all of them are in the same spot. I even have a bit where I talk about how gender is factored in, and came to a similar conclusion. I can't overstate how weird this feels. This is literally the exact stuff I wrote, never published, and never even talked to anyone about. I guess it does speak to some universality in the classpect system. That we're both able to come to the same conclusions, given the same loose set of tools.

[@ouroborista]

Oh certainly. Parallel discovery is always a permeating feature of fields which are both as decentralised as classpect theorising and as bound by a common pool of source material. Some months after making this, I stumbled across writing by Tumblr user classpect-navelgazing which had some shockingly similar approaches as well, which I had never seen before in the pockets where my discussions were happening. It always comes aback and forth. Funny how that goes. I still occasionally think about compiling an even more holistic example chart with a derse and a prospit representative for each classpect, so if you have some recommendations for that I'd be happy to hear them. Also hope you finish your doc. Too many interesting ideas are forever lost to the aether because people get stuck in the writing process and thus never get around to actually publishing them.

[@brooklyngray1527]

@@ouroborista Thanks for that tumblr blog, really interesting resource. The character chart I'm working on has a prospit/derse example for each alignment, as well as lord and muse classes for a total of 336 characters, which I haven't seen anyone else do so far. I'm about a fourth of the way through. The plan is to publish it with the essay, but I might post it early depending on when I finish it. I can let you know. If I'm happy with how the essay turns out, I'll make a video like this, where I narrate it and show clips from shows/movies to illustrate my points. I'm in uni rn so process is slow, but consistent. Thanks for making this video, by the way. It's easy to get lost in your own perspective and begin to doubt yourself with projects like this, especially as they get bigger and more complex. You've given me some reassurance that I'm on the right track. I'll let you know when I finish something worth sharing.

[@0whatman]

mirroring is definetly something I've seen discussed in some tumblr blogs and in at least one channel's youtube videos and it is definetly something I've seen as part of the aspects for a long time, as well as 4 aspect groups haha

[@savacook3368]

God, I wish I were a Ragebound. But I’m such a Heartbound that it hurts.

[@ouroborista]

Wishing to be rage-bound sure is a sentiment that i don't think i've encountered before, but you're probably onto something. That's an exceptionally heart statement right there.

[@tyusilvertail2209]

@@ouroborista every woman in heart bound hates rage bound people btw its the true nature of it btw

[@ouroborista]

@@tyusilvertail2209 is that so? Someone should tell Meulin

[@tyusilvertail2209]

@@ouroborista probably nep stole my heart at the ripe young age of 10

[@etherealstarland]

PLEASE LETS SWAP IM BEGGING YOU I AM A RAGE BOUND

[@UraniumCoffee]

let's go 50 fps, this is the best framerate you can find on youtube

[@TimeAndSpuds]

I'm normally not very good at judging my own characteristics But I resonated a lot with the heir of Space classpect (especially the space asspect, it just fits like a glove) So seeing Luz as the example for heir of Space made me pretty happy Because for one I just really like toh And second, while watching the show with a friend they kept mentioning that Luz really reminds them of me So I guess that's a double confirmation for me lol

[@ouroborista]

haha congrats on that. Sometimes things just fit

[@OlaAremu]

Hehe asspect

[@TimeAndSpuds]

@@OlaAremu oh shoot XD I guess my mind drifted Off while typing that Word

[@TheGazingHeart]

i really enjoy classpecting and even my current and ex homestuck friends dont get it, so it was very exciting to me finding an actually good comprehensive source that isn't outdated as hell and annoying. this scratched an itch ive had for a long time for something to put into words that "i know it when i see it" phenomanon and illuminate some of the aspects and classes i just Didnt get. (im a knight of breath, i totally didnt get life vs space, and sylph and maid didn't completely compute to me. but i feel like way more concrete now I Get It) thank u!!!! ive sent this to everyone i know

[@ouroborista]

Thank you so much! This sort of feedback means a lot and I'm glad you found what you were looking for

[@gamesbyzeta1434]

It's always interesting to see this topic is still evolving so many years after the end of the story. Once upon a time I felt much more solidly about who i was in relation to these thanks to the old in depth bladekindeyewear analysis of classpects. and It's interesting to see how, almost 8 years later, that understanding of who i was back in highschool through the framework of this, actually hasn't shifted too much. Back then i was always torn between the same 3, Space, Mind, and Void. still am. Back then i thought i was a Heir, but now i realize I'm a page. I've had to learn and teach myself and have lagged behind in many areas because of this. Funny how it is. Thanks for the essay. As well, I want to say that even with the fandom basically permanently asleep, i greatly appreciate content like this. even all these years later.

[@ouroborista]

Yeah Bladekind was definitely difficult to avoid during that time [affectionate]. It is fun how these things follow us. Leave it to the voidbound to only start making things like this video while the fandom is hibernating. To spew thoughts into these empty halls while irrelevance is assured. (I don't actually mind, I just wanted to get some of these notes out of my head). Thank you!

[@rebeccachoate9040]

The Knight-Maid pairing is one that Ive always attested to since I first got into Homestuck (more specifically classpecting) around 2013~2014. It felt like I was the only one I saw who felt that way though, so it’s nice to see it displayed in such a well thought out and organized presentation!

[@ouroborista]

God yes. I feel like class-pair discourse is a lot more relaxed and accomodating these days. I remember people being unwilling to even humour the rich parallels that exist there. Thank you

[@abzhz101handle9]

'Well absolutely [bleep] this [bleep] not-so-gently with a chainsaw' is probably one of my favorite quotes of all time now. Thank you for either creating it, or introducing it to me.

[@ouroborista]

Yeah it's very fun, and I say variations of it frequently. This particular one is my own, but it traces its roots to the line "well fuck me gently with a chainsaw" from Heathers.

[@sickawesome4659]

There's one thing I've wanted an answer to but found myself unable to find a place for, is the themes of limits or duality within Doom and Life. I know Life features duality less than Doom does in Homestuck. However, considering Life's themes of both consumption and growth, I find the question itself important to understanding the two aspects. The best I've mustered up is that Life pushes past limits, maximizing gain while minimizing effort. For Doom, it's about staying within one's limits, practicing discipline, and only achieving what's asked of them. - A Derse Bard of Void

[@ouroborista]

I think duality arises naturally and inevitably from these limits. Wherever you create a boundary, you create an inside and an outside, the reachable and the unreachable. Sollux's glasses are the first framing deceive we get for splitting the ontology of homestuck into universe one and universe two, where sollux is the only troll not to interact with the kids until the end. He stays in his limits, in his universe, until that boundary is unmade around him. Note also how the condesce transgresses past the previous reach of her empire by burning up the helmsman -crossing the limit by defying doom, and extending his expiration date in the process. The limit is pushed infinitely outward and therefore duality is rejected. Consumption is the act of making multiple things into one. Similarly Fef's pact with the horrorterrors and the creation of the dream bubbles pulls the outside into the inside, pulls life into death and vice versa to a point where the distinction grows blurry to everyone involved.

[@AquilaCat]

Woah. This video has been more helpful to me than anything else ever has with really understanding my classpect. Thank you so much for putting in all this work and sharing with us! -derse-leaning maid of blood

[@ouroborista]

Oh that's really high praise. Thank you so much! Glad to know it's serving its purpose

[@sylphofheart]

ive believed myself to be page of heart, and this has helped me confirm and understand it more.

[@sylphofheart]

i love evangelion and learning that i share my class with shinji and my aspect with rei ayanami made my day lol

[@ritz4801]

i'm nowhere near finished with this video yet but as a huge classpect nerd i'm so excited thank you for making this and THANK YOU X2 for making the text version public

[@ouroborista]

Glad you're enjoying it, though it's actually the video and not the text version that's the bonus. Having an audio upload was never part of the original plan, I just made it because the text post was somewhat well received

[@lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598]

I haven't read Homestuck in years nor watched any content related to it. KZbin recommendations can be weird sometimes... Nice video anyway, always fun to see how in-depth HS fans tend to go.

[@ouroborista]

Thanks, this definitely got out of hand

[@jamm6_514]

Wish there was more material on this for me to read on lol, I'm being utterly unable to class myself but this further confirmed that my aspect is light Your work is amazing ^w^

[@ouroborista]

Oh there's a bunch of material out there. Optimistic Duelist, Dahni, Classpect-Navelgazing, Bladekind Eyewear, Arrghus, just to list a few. You will find a number of disagreements between all of us though. Thanks!

[@jamm6_514]

@@ouroborista I've watched OD's series before this- And yes there were some disagreements but also many similar points, i think you even referenced him in your video which i found very neat ^w^. Thank you for the recomendations!

[@Woofska]

Can’t believe Eridan Ampora himself is telling us about classpects

[@ouroborista]

This is a crime. Please, anyone but Eridan

[@azealot7112]

I am imagining you as some sort of real world Problem Sleuth. Your Pulchritude is soaring, and by putting pen to paper you were able to create a treatise dissecting the inner workings of the universe.

[@ouroborista]

You're right. I am ascending and it's terrible.

[@texasred8424]

this is great, why doesn't this have more views?? well actually i think i can answer that question myself (the homestucks are hibernating for the nuclear winter) but still. also i think that classes dictating the godtier costume and aspects dictating the colors is a really cool way to visually represent the relationship between classes and aspects. - derse-leaning seer of space

[@ouroborista]

Well this is still my best-performing video, so I'm not that upset, but hey if you think it deserves more attention by all means share it around! Yeah, it slots in well with the relationship they have on a substance-level. Thanks!

[@polares01]

I'm definitely a mind player, I was thinking of frameworks to solve problems before I knew the word framework. I was wavering towards bard or rogue tough, because I tend to aproach my framework making as fucking around with things until I can get the variables that dictate the behaviour, I always do this thinking about other people, being impersonal in order for the things I do being applied hy others. But your video did two things to make me sure I'm a mage, first of all recontextualizing the learn through experience/struggle and painting the figure as a sage, I wanna be iroh from the last air bender but for thoughts. So thank you, as a prospit mage of mind for helping me find my aspect.

[@ouroborista]

You're welcome. Yeah iroh is my go-to example for a fully realized Mage

[@bluewail55]

I don't know what's with this video that makes me keep coming back to it. I always listen to this when ever I'm working or when I'm bored I just rewatch it in it's entirety. I guess this makes it easy to guess that I'm a light-bound. Anyway, thank you for making this and reigniting my hyperfixation on homestuck and classpecting again. -your friendly local Prospit Maid of Light

[@ouroborista]

That is very flattering, thank you!

[@aroukar47]

Your video is good and really insightful. I was just bothered by a few personal touches that I felt were completely unnecessary. My opinion of course, but keep up the good work!

[@ouroborista]

Thank you. And that's fair I suppose, the fact that others might have eschewed them is what makes the touches personal

[@fntthesmth423]

...i'm worried that i'm just here to figure out what powers to give the characters for a class-swap AU fanfic, but i'll end up actually learning something actually useful and interesting Terrifying i'm going to get snacks

[@ouroborista]

You've come to the wrong place I fear. At the very least it isn't the place you were looking for, though perhaps it can be the one you were supposed to find. Have fun snacking, and ignore the signs of portent to whatever degree you find yourself capable of.

[@shebeefingonmystroganoff]

i cant believe this is all available to watch for FREE on the internet wow 🤯 your writing and cadence was such a treat, really enjoyed your prose especially! i always thought myself as a seer of mind but hearing your descriptions made me realise that im just a very reason/objectivity focused mage of heart (a neat lil opposites switcheroo of class and aspect lol), alot like how dirk is as a heart bound (yk cerebral to the point of neuroticism lol). i am alexithymic and autistic so ive always struggled with perceiving/understanding emotions both my own and others, which i think is apart of why i rely so heavily on reasoning, constant detailed analysis/reflection and principle to help me understand the whys heart bounds yearn for. it also made me dismiss the possibility of being heart bound all this time as everyone else describes heart bounds as inherently emotional charged, but ive always needed to intellectually understand emotions/experiences. its almost embarassing how well everything you wrote about heart fit. tho i guess that all makes sense once i figured out the mage part LOL. thanks for doing justice on your analysis of classpects :)! - a dersite mage of heart 🌚

[@ouroborista]

I'm glad to have been of help, and thank you. I'm primarily a writer and not a typologist, so making the document pleasant to read was high on the list of priorities. Heart and Mind are two of the most commonly mischaracterized aspects in my mind. Likely a simple product of beings bound to large clusters of everyday symbology for the character of people by way of their name. "Void" is abstract. To the ordinary person it doesn't mean much in reference to another. It's an empty box that can trivially be filled with the supplementary meaning classpecting offers. But "heart" already means too much, so many will walk away thinking that they already understand without noticing that the concept is pointed at something else in this case. That's my theory at least.

[@shebeefingonmystroganoff]

@@ouroborista yea that makes sense and i agree its likely caused by the general cultural canon for concepts like heart/mind :P thanks again so much for all the research and writing you did into this!

[@ToxicXNature]

I absolutely love how in depth yet comprehensive this is. It totally solidified my class is Rogue, but now I'm conflicted. I always had it as Rogue of Time, but this is making me rethink my old aspect I got in the times of quizlets in 2015, Breath.... Breath really does fit me as a person, but Time is just so much cooler. But then also part of the things that makes Time seem cool is the freedom it could give me to move through Time, which is DEFINITELY a Breath mindset! 😭

[@ouroborista]

That is definitely a breath mindset. Both the focus on freedom and also the shallow attachment which naturally makes one go "oh but this is also cool! Or this one! Or.. hmm". It does seem like you've figured out where you belong

[@ToxicXNature]

@@ouroborista Damn I've truly been read to filth lmaooo. Every line of Breath I felt deep in my soul, so I can't deny. Also Time's description just made me fucking anxious... Like bro I'm literally procrastinating writing essays for my college classes by looking up classpect shit instead aaaaaaaaa

[@JhuanVSales]

When i did unofficial quizes i tended to get heart, the official have me rage, and tbh hearing your concepts for the aspects gave me stong resonance with both now im hella lost

[@ouroborista]

Well, good luck figuring it out. For more aspect analysis I'd recommend Classpect-Navelgazing on Tumblr and Opacifica

[@FunkMcLovin]

i wish homestuck was real

[@ouroborista]

I wish *the other half* of Homestuck were real. The universe seems hellbent on only giving us the apocalypse and existential dread stuff, while cruelly withholding all of the fun bits. Uhh anyway, fancy seeing you here! Keep up the good work and I hope you enjoyed it

[@altoStylophone]

This was an amazing listen! Got into Homestuck last 4/13 when my friends finally peer pressured me enough, and I've been hooked ever since. Still getting through the story, but all the class terminology was going over my head and I just needed something to make heads or tails of it all. That's when I saw your video. The first surprise was the sheer depth of it all. I still don't believe half of it was intentional, but the intricacy of patterns and symmetries that complement each other so perfectly, the classes and aspects that are so all encompassing but done in such unusual labels to create novelty, it's mind-blowing. Beyond the analysis, though, this outlook of classpecting turned out to be an unexpectedly useful tool of introspection. I followed the comments and tried to classpect myself. Space is easily my favorite aspect (which is probably because of ADHD :P), but I found myself resonating most with your description of Heart. This was confusing as it's probably the aspect I feel least confident about in real life contexts. This confusion came into clarity, however, when you brought up the Page. Despite my lack of confidence, I want to be better. I want to learn and grow. I've found this helpful. By framing it this way, I have abstracted the fear and anxiety. I feel it, but it becomes a challenge, and I understand deep down it must be overcome. The path of growth goes from overwhelming, nebulous infinity to a single name: Page of Heart. So what I mean to say is, thank you so much. I came for a needlessly complex dive into silly webcomic lore and came out with deep appreciation of these fantastical worlds and a way to structure thoughts I couldn't before even articulate. ❤

[@ouroborista]

Thank you so much (and yes I agree that most of this was probably not deliberately included by Hussie. Building something useful to explain these patterns is a process of invention as much or more than it is a process of discovery), it's an honour to have been able to aid in your self-exploration. That's the best use of these sorts of systems in my experience, not to go out of one's way to apply them for their own sake, but rather to see which ideas their framing suddenly makes crisper and more accessible and then to see whether those can be imported back into your regular mind state if they seem to possess some radiance. I wish you the best of luck on your path.

[@codenamejinza]

I'm a Page of Light, myself, and I'm honestly comfortable with that title. Thank you for posting this, I will *totally* have fun Classpecting my favorite characters with it 🤩

[@OctovenderReal]

Really hoping this video blows up, you deserve it

[@ouroborista]

Thank you! I'd be delighted (and terrified) if it does

[@xXx-...--Vex--...-xXx]

@@ouroborista fame isnt what it used to be, heres to hoping you are appreciated at any size, and my best case scenario for any notoriety is that smalltown theater actor local celebrity status.

[@ouroborista]

@@xXx-...--Vex--...-xXx oh god no, I definitely don't want to be famous. I just want some of these theories to gain traction so that others might do interesting work with them

[@Jack-lo5me]

You have fed me kind sir. Or ma’am I don’t know this is my first video of yours I’ve watched- But you have fed my love of Classpect analysis for another month. The hunger pains will surely return, but for now I am full and content. Though… as a Knight of Time myself, I can’t help but refuse the idea that a Knight is Active. Dave is certainly a powerful warrior or his aspect, and Karkat was able to wield leadership so well he got the TROLLS to work together…. But I can’t help but conscribe to the point OptimisticDuelist made about Knights: that their want to help and be useful is what makes them SEEM active, and once they find themselves in a situation without the need to solve problems, they relax and become incredibly passive. While I think I enjoy your Knight/Maid dichotomy, I really don’t see why Maids aren’t the Active class. “Pre-acting” is still acting first. It’s still being active in how they do things. The maid sets the table before anyone sits at it, while the knight defends the castle when it is threatened.

[@ouroborista]

Thanks! As for activity-passivity, the problem is a bit deeper than this. I agree that knights are passive by Taz's definition of what active and passive mean, but I don't find that underlying definition entirely satisfactory. (I still adore their work, but to a certain degree all of us diverge on interpretation. We would not have to write these screeds otherwise.) Taz uses the "for self Vs for others" spectrum to determine activity, along with "pre-acting Vs re-acting" and something close to temperament. A big part of why I dislike this system is that I think it completely breaks for both of the bards we see in my mind. Gamzee is entirely self serving (the "he's doing this for his religion" line doesn't count when he's aware that the messaiahs he's worshipping are "me and also me"), he's probably the most pre-acting character in the comic (unless you could everything he ever does as a reaction to the video Dave sent him, which is really lazy), and his temperament is unsteady at best. Pre-acting is acting, but that's not a super useful statement. Standing around is an action, but we would be unlikely to call someone who stands around all day "active" in the common parlance sense of the term. Active is more commonly associated with high energy or direct actions. (Running is more active than driving, even though both are performing an action towards the same end). That's the sense in which I use the word, and by that metric the very pattern you describe for knights (which I agree with) is active. They are swift and direct responders to stimulus who therefore have the luxury of relaxing when nothing is going on. Maids are not usually caught in the high octane fray, but this comes at the cost of their task of domino-setting being more continuous. It ties back in to the RPG analogy. Fighting only has to be done when there's a fight, but the work of buffing and building fortifications is enduring. This also explains the behaviour of our two bards, and I just find it more elegant than picking and choosing from a three-variable system. If you prefer Taz's interpretation, more power to you. We're all just stumbling through the dark trying to find patterns

[@Jack-lo5me]

@@ouroborista that’s true, however I find that I think we might be forgetting that the ideas OptimisticDuelist and the ideas you found may not be mutually exclusive. Example; Dave may fight, act, and overall do things on his own. However, he himself is always prompted by outside stimulation rather than his own enjoyment of what he is doing. Hell, his original session is literally him doing errands for Rose, Terezi, and Jade. And as Terezi states, Dave seems to view his future self as someone to serve as well. That he has to do what his future self did in order to let the timeline move at it is supposed to. I believe his active-coding is probably a result of his aspect rather then his class, as Time-Bound have a tendency to always want continuing stimulation forward. Aradia on the other hand is constantly the one giving advice to others pre-session, is fighting because she has grudges, and is manipulating events to help her friends. She even separates herself from Diamonds Drouge before [s] Make Her Pay, making it clear that SHE wants to do this. I think intent and source of intent is my main ideas of active and passive. If a person runs, like you say, are they doing it because they enjoy running, or are they running for PE Class/to get in shape if they are unhealthy? If they do it because they enjoy it and want it, they are being active. If they are being told to, they can still enjoy the act, but they are bending to the will of another. The active runner forces their will onto reality through the act of choosing to run. The passive runner bends to the will of outside forces that tell them to run. The action of running is active, but the meaning behind it can be either active or passive.

[@ouroborista]

Oh of course, I'm very aware of that. They're not just compatible, they point at similar things by nature of their emergence. Different lines drawn over a blurry boundary. I wouldn't agree with optimistic duelist on most things if this were a complete disagreement on the basics. These behaviours interlink with each other. I don't however think that this is a super fair analysis, at least if we want to look at classpecting as a tool of character analysis instead of narrative analysis (I'm aware that that's another big divergence between me and Taz. They are a lot more focused on the narrative implications whereas I want to use this as a character typology first and foremost). Dave running errands doesn't tell us much about him as a person in most of these cases. He does it because he has to to save the game, and he's the only one with time powers to be constantly available. If I hold a gun to someone's head and tell them to do something for me, that doesn't tell me they're helpful. It's a statement about the scenario, not the character. We can even see this in the fact that Karkat is very autonomously motivated and agency rich over the entire course of the story. The others don't want him to be the leader at first, he's imposing himself. The others don't ask him to be hypervigilant and not sleep the entire time, he does so because he perceives that that's the leader's role, and he wants to be the leader. The errandboy role seems specific to Dave's position in the story as opposed to being a fundamental aspect of knights (and even if it was, would that not imply that seers are active based on this dynamic?) Aradia on the other hand starts out in a position of very low agency, being okay with everything, moved around, taking the role of shadow leader only because equius asks her to, and then has an awakening which allows her to rediscover her agency. That's my main issue here. Low agency or external source of intent isn't a personality trait. It's a role you're forced into and it isn't a healthy one for most. Karkat has agency the entire way through, aradia loses hers and finds it again. Dave surrenders his somewhat willingly and later gives up time travel entirely because it traps him in that low agency state of having to comply with the loop or ending up dead. Vriska is an active player with an internal source of intent and Gamzee is a passive player with an internal source of intent. Dirk is an active player with an external source of intent and Alt-Calliope is a passive player with an external source of intent. There seems to be some trend of passive players being forced into a position of low agency more frequently, but that seems neither universal, nor does it strike me as a character trait (that would be very depressing). It's a challenge. I tend to regard the acquisition of agency and internal intent to be what it means to ascend in any class

[@Jack-lo5me]

@@ouroborista hm… Very good points. I think I agree with you mostly, but… Idk. I guess I’m just kinda attached to how I was thinking about all this stuff beforehand. My main hiccup with your logic is that knights SERVE. That, enheirently, relies on a release of agency in exchange for another’s/for their aspect. Which would not automatically make me think they are passive. My argument is that ALL passive classes give up their agency in some way. Equius and John, both Heirs, are DEFINED by how they are willing to do what others say. John does so because he is simple and clean(haha KH) and just doesn’t care for causing conflict in 99% of cases. For Equius, it’s a down right fetish. Then there are all the other showing of how passive people tend to give up something. I think we over-estimate the value of agency in most cases. Like all things, it’s a spectrum, not a switch. And the more you help others, the more you are giving your agency, your free will, to them. It’s why I still think that Duelist still has a bunch of points that hold water, and that are more social then you may think. The fact is that EVERY passive player in Homestuck bends their will to others and what they want, though to different degrees and for different effects. Alt! Caliopie doesn’t bend her will to her brother, but she didn’t dominate him either. She did the bare minimum, and simply waited Caliborn out, slowly eating away at him with her superior patience and mind. Kanaya is constantly making things for others, doing it most of the time not out of necessity but because that’s just who she is. She willingly gave up her will, I suppose you could say. I guess my point is that I agree on a lot of your points… except that but about passive-players. As one myself, I can tell you; there is a tendency to bend the knee to others at basically all times. The ONLY exceptions are personal reasons. Passions, loves. Karkat leads activity because he wants to, but it still is an act of service. He CHOOSES to GIVE UP. Sleep, his time, ect. THAT is my point. Passive-people aren’t devoid of agency, they just are more inclined to give things up in order to help others. Which is why I still think the OptimisticDuelist idea of “Selfish/Selfless” may hold a BIT more water then you think. It’s a pattern we constantly see. It is the Active trolls who kill on the Meteor, except for Gamzee who is following the words of his god, which while “him”, his passive-soul is so diluted into LE by the Active parts of LE’s soul, that it’s hard to say how much he is really in there besides his love of clowns stuff, and things needed for a stable time-loop. Passive-players are more manipulative or subtle. Or atleast they try to be. Rose/Terezi don’t need to be coy with Dave because he is in on it, but they are still manipulating him. It’s for a selfless goal of getting them and their team out alive, but still manipulation. And those are just a single example from both sides Its a pattern tempered by personal experience and outside forces, but a big pattern non the less. Active people are more likely to do things while keeping their agency. Passive people are more likely to do things while distributing or otherwise sharing their agency with others.

[@ouroborista]

Maybe I was being unclear, because I definitely did not mean to imply that agency means not helping people. Agency is about whether you have the choice. That was my issue with your analysis of Dave's. The errandboy role is a position of necessity. Deviation means death. That's why I brought up Karkat's arc, because he actually does serve of his own volition. Homestuck is a story about cooperation and community in the face of impossible odds after all, so most protagonist-y characters do help the team. Serving does not mean surrendering agency if you want to do it, and most people do, for those they like. As you say, we are deeply social creatures. I also agree with most of those character analyses and with the fact that passive players seem to be more likely to lose their agency. But if it's only more likely then it doesn't seem like the determining factor. We can go back to Dirk, most of whose arc is about losing agency to the auto-responder. He's also someone who desperately wants to help and be useful, at the expense of his own wellbeing, so subjugating one's own needs to those of others (voluntarily) doesn't seem like the universal terrain of passive players either. That's just what we people do. For love, for friendship for ideals. It's an interesting dynamic to examine and there's probably some insightful theorizing to be had in why those trends exist, but they strike me as probabilistic outcomes rather than underlying factors.

[@a10485]

I feel like every new classpecting analysis I see ends up assigning me a new class. I get assigned Heir, Rogue, and Mage of Space most often, but yours ended up giving me Maid of Space, which I've never gotten before. I think I'll just stick to Heir for now. Anyway, other than the fact that I cannot for the life of me see Utena as anything but timebound, your analysis is definitely a new favorite, I love the amount of detail you get into with aspect wheel geometry and Exactly What An Aspect Even Is and why class activity is such a chaotic mess. I almost wish you made the this thirty minutes longer with your own ideas of aspect symmetries beyond the duo, but I'm also content to keep working on my own google doc full of definitely dubious triangles, quadrilaterals, and beyond.

[@ouroborista]

Oh thank you! I wonder what you find so different about my analysis of maids than other things you've seen, but hey at least you've got a stable aspect. Anything I could say about other symmetries just doesn't feel solid enough. There's individual bright spots but they don't fit into a larger pattern. It feels like finding faces in rock-formations. A fun exercise, but I feel like it would muddy the rest in this context. If I ever come across anything better I might update the document, though I obviously can't change the video.

[@honey3762]

If you had to make a new aspect, what would you add? Seeing that lord and muse seem to be a bonus class, I think there is room for two more aspects.

[@OlaAremu]

So cool! You have destroyed a void within me, although, only temporarily

[@ouroborista]

Thank you

[@Ysevetyfive]

This is easily the best classpecting "guide" or explaination I've seen, everything is backed up with evidence and logic and in so much wonderful detail, easily my new go-to for classpect related questions. It's also has made me more firm in my current self-classpect interpretation of Bard of Heart, though i also vibe with Prince of Light a lot so more soul (hah) searching for me i guess. And i don't know if I'm being rude or asking to much but i would like to ask your thoughts on how the destroyer class aspect moonlighting would manifest with a Bard of Heart, or how the destruction class aspect would work in general as i find that aspect of Bard/Prince hasn't been fully satisfyingly explored with your level of factual analysis and detail anywhere I've read. Also where do you find your classpect examples in media? I've searched online but there isn't a proper list anywhere.

[@ouroborista]

Oh thank you so much! Yeah bard of heart with a little prince of light definitely makes sense as a combo, vertical pairs and all. It's not impolite, though I obviously don't have the time to respond to everything with a full essay (at least not for free). For the active destruction of heart Dirk is obviously an amazing example. Keep in mind that moonlighting mostly occurs in the domain while the material is largely immune. In distributing his self across splinters he destroys his identity in the sense of self-sameness. His friends have to figure out whether they are talking to the real him. On the surface this turns character motivation into a game of chance and outcomes. He also clearly vitiates the emotional component of heart in his aesthetic presentation "a heart player who's a stone cold motherfucker", despite the fact that Dirk clearly has emotions. And in his role as puppetmaster he of course destroys the individual agency of his group, drawing interlinking identities into a predictable stratagem. But the entire joke of BGD and the auto-responder is of course that they're still clearly Dirk. Dirk created the responder at least in part to explore his own self. He isn't a calculated machine and he can't be. His identity overwhelms all it comes in contact with and all splinters remain idiosyncratically him. Mind is moonlighted, but only in the specific pursuit of heart. A bard would of course not shatter themself so deliberately, but they might take on personas. Wear a mask for a day to see whether it suits them, and so they too would be outwardly ruinous to coherent identity while internally striving for it more strongly perhaps than most. Or there's the case of Meursault who refuses to defend or justify himself in the wake of the murder he committed. It is because of his introspection and attachment to his self and values that he sees no need to make excuses, and thus renders his motives and drives obscure to anyone who seeks to judge him. That is what moonlighting is in my mind: coherence of motives and stylistic dissonance of means. I don't understand. The examples are on the second-to-last page of the document linked in the video description. I've expanded it a bit since the vid went up in hopes of eventually having a prospit and a derse example for everything, so it looks somewhat different now, but it's still there. This one: ouroborista.neocities.org/articles/Treatise_on_Classpecting.pdf

[@Ysevetyfive]

​@@ouroborista Thank you very much for taking the time to answer, it's certainly made things even clearer for me. And im very sorry my last question wasn't clear, i was asking where you got your example characters and their classpects from for your list, is there a community page somewhere where people specifically discuss it and post about them or a page like the famous people page on the 16 Personalities site? Or are these personal classpects you put together yourself? (If it's the latter, damn, respect for the dedication)

[@ouroborista]

@@Ysevetyfive no problem And yeah those are all my personal typings, though some (like Steven Universe) are pretty commonly accepted in the fandom, and a few were suggestions from my friends and beta-readers (notable the undertale characters and that one guy from white collar)

[@Moonsong227]

An hour and a half of very clearly put lecturing on a topic that consumes my brain too much. Well done! XD fr tho so much here is very well phrased

[@ouroborista]

Thank you! I put quite a few hours in to make this an actually polished and pleasant-to-read guide that I would still be satisfied with a year down the line, as opposed to just slapping accumulated thoughts together. That sort of thing always strikes me as very inconsiderate of the reader/listener's time, so I'm glad the extra care goes appreciated.

[@allamalad]

GRAHHH THIS DESERVES MORE ATTENTION, HOMESTUCK SHALL HAVE ITS RISE ONCE AGAIN

[@ouroborista]

Thank you! please do share it with people if you want it to get more attention. I could not possibly be any more on board with that

[@raywilson641]

This analysis was really good. I think you've done the topic justice. I was really happy to see Cassandra on the list. I'm speculating as to what Rapunzel would be. I'm thinking sylph of blood. Also I just found out that one of my favorite books, Neuromancer is actually a trillogy. A Homestuck video would be the last place I would have guessed to pick up that knowledge. So I know what I'll be reading for the next few days.

[@ouroborista]

Thank you! Maybe, I find Rapunzel's characterization somewhat inconsistent between the show and the movie, which is the main reason why I didn't type her. Oh neat! Though i should mention that it's only a trilogy (3.5 technically, since there's also a short story collection called burning chrome) in that they are set in the same world. There are a few recurring characters, but no overarching narrative. If you like Gibson I'd also recommend Pattern Recognition, which is my personal favourite of his.

[@tamale413]

i haven't finished the video yet but so far it's really good and i wasnt expecting for you to mention ramsey murdoch lol

[@ouroborista]

Thank you. Love that rat creature. Adore him.

[@infinitesimalphilip1470]

47:56 Somehow I just Knew like 5 minutes into the video, “yeah, this person’s definitely listened to The Magnus Archives before.”

[@ouroborista]

It probably did not help that I referred to the Force-interpretation of Aspects as "Entities" near the start, though this isn't just a cheap reference. It's a genuinely useful concept for anyone who has been exposed to TMA to click into this slot and generate some quick intuitions. Other than that, yeah I seem the type, don't I?

[@betterthananoob1751]

I'm late to this video but this was a great watch, as a void player i love learning more about aspects and this really was interesting

[@ouroborista]

Don't worry about it. The video itself is late to the party with regards to the relevance of classpecting discourse after all. Thanks!

[@ahomestucker]

oh hell yes, you like va11halla, epithet erased, *and* ghost trick? nice. just nice also i gotta say, classpecting sans undertale is really funny.

[@ouroborista]

Yeah, Valhalla is my favourite video game (though I haven't played many). I actually stole the sans-typing from a friend since I trust them and I still needed a bard. He's one of the three people on there who weren't my own picks.

[@xXx-...--Vex--...-xXx]

good to see the homestucks are still kicking, love your past videos so far and boy howdy is it beautiful to find you through neocities so dont worry- ENOUGH of us read, but its easier to multitask this way heehe so it is appreciated

[@ouroborista]

Oh sure, there are more than enough situations where audio is just more convenient. "Watch this video" is usually an easier pitch than "read this document" though, at least for most people, so I strive to make my work accessible. Anyway, thank you so much. I’ll try to continue kicking for a while longer

[@anecro]

Ah, just as I remember it. I went in this video expecting some new information and updated meanings ever since my time collecting data from both official and unofficial sources back in 2016 and while this definitely shines some light into things like the horizontal pairs I didn't know about, it's mostly the knowledge I had accumulated too, which is bitter-sweet since once again I feel confident in all of the shit I've told people over the years as some form of weird authority that basically self-proclaimed itself that but nothing has really moved since that place in time. I actually went back into my Homestuck folder (yes, that's a real thing on my computer) to find all the stuff I had piled up around god tiers and hero titles. Some of them have different interpretations of concepts like reverse pairs or altered versions of the aspect wheel, before we had anything official and people were speculating, and I honestly see some potentially still relevant connections that might make you think every aspect is closer to each other than you might think. I also don't know how much of all this is still around on the internet today as a lot of it comes from obscure tumblr blogs and what have you. Never was on there for the record, I just ended up on a lot of small pages due to this extensive research effort. Now personally (+ something which is unrelated to the matter at hand and holds on pretty loosely), I've started noticing a huge potential error in people's god tiers in regards to their frequency. Specifically, the god tier I've picked too, the Mage of Space. I've done a lot of on and off research over the years and recently I've started questioning why there are so many people claiming to be Mages of Space specifically including me, and it traces back to an infamous quiz hosted on a unique website, which I did twice again and gave me a Mage of Space. My theory is that due to the Mage class being very mysterious and vague on purpose on top of Space being known as the "cool" aspect that people can easily wrap their heads around (as well as Time), especially after Cascade, the quiz isn't balanced correctly and the Mage of Space title is much more easily dispensed as the answers you give are generally easily giving points to that specific combination. Why am I bothering with this? Diagnose your own selves people. I've grown up a lot since then and I've figured out that quizzes are for suckers. They don't work well and might've misguided me too, although in my case I think it's pretty accurate, there's a comical amount of relation to that entire description of Space and the Mage role fits how I interact with the concepts described by the Space aspect. The biggest telltale sign is probably the fact that I'm very into science nerd shit and space as in literally space and how cool it is. Also very into astrophotography and I'm very content and relaxed when it comes to loneliness, something which I've always dealt with a lot and hence understand and accept in a non-self-destructive way (at least not anymore ha, I've made peace with all that by this point but all of this was real bad a couple of years ago), pretty much all of my hobbies at this point require no people or relationships and connections to move forward. The number one thing I do in almost all phases of my life so far is have a lot of free time to absorb a lot of knowledge I might at some point utilize and it's all related to either physics or technology. Used to getting my developed logic turned on me too, it's annoying cause I like tidying up everything in little boxes (which I think is just a human instinct to be honest) but it ain't that black and white. The weird thing with that combination is that it can make you question whether you're a Light player or not and I still struggle with that a bit. There are a lot of strange parallels in the description of a Mage to the Light aspect despite classes revealing the HOW in how you utilize your aspect. Something something knowledge, understanding, caring more about the answers and all. One of the charts I have saved depicts an aspect wheel with Light right next to Space and it makes a bit of sense in the more literal, object-type definitions of the aspects. Oh and yeah, I do struggle against Time as the opposite aspect whenever I dive too deep into this desire to collect information and understand, obsessive Homestuck stuff aside it's literally manifesting as a lack of sleep and being late (or running) to almost anything cause I just want more hours in the day to research random shit and get into new things, going on for years now. This was happening back in 2016 and it's still going on in 2023 (21 years old currently). And that's the other beautiful thing with classpecting - it's a made up system describing real people and personalities in a modern cultural context that can actually work as some kind of identification to (at the very least) a piece of someone's being that fits into this mechanism. I love that. Anyhow. I'll finish this off by saying that as a Mage I really like listening to Light players (at least the ones more in line with information and not luck), I'm the kind of person who goes through huge text walls and complicated, detailed analyses, which is why I absolutely loved this video! Good job my man. This was a great memory refresher and ties in beautifully with what I knew from way back when.

[@ouroborista]

For the massive paradigm shifts you might have hoped for, I fear that you got into it too late. After all 2016 marked the end of the comic proper and while both hiveswap and the epilogues came with some more data points to work with, they mostly refined this region of theory-space as opposed to upending it wholesale. None of the new experiments broke our (or at least my) model of physics, they just revealed some symmetries and interactions which were previously opaque. The field is not fully dead, and it certainly has not reached consensus, but the things people disagree about have not really changed all that much in recent years. Any newcomer still has a somewhat diverse field of views to explore, but from the inside it is the same Christmas dinner argument (largely about what the pairs are) over and over again. Obviously I appreciate having gotten the opportunity to say my piece and push some previously fringe ideas into the mainstream and spark some new ones alltogether, but they still look more like interesting tweaks than a wholesale explosion of the status quo, and a part of the reason why i made this document when i did was precisely this stasis. I was pretty confident that I wouldn't be confronted with something that fully changes my mind all too soon, because I hadn't been in a while. I certainly see how that could be perceived as bittersweet, but from my own vantage there are enough fascinating puzzles to play with that putting a tentative check next to one of them does not warrant that much mourning of its loss. Anyway, thanks, glad you enjoyed the video

[@shane7534]

I run a classpect blog and whenever I need a boost I play this in the background

[@ouroborista]

Oh that's a wonderful compliment! What's the blog?

[@nickl4855]

Well, after an incredibly long time of self-delusion i think this is the video to convince me that I'm not really the seer of heart that i always projected but am actually much more functionally bard of mind

[@Parageist99]

ive been into homestuck for like 7 years now and have attempted to figure out my classpect hundreds of times to no avail, but i think this video finally helped me understand and settle on something, i am a Rogue of Time, although Rogue of Heart also fits me very well; i could go either way. but im tired of being indecisive so im just gonna go with time for now, though i will likely look into it more later and inevitably change my mind about it lmao

[@ouroborista]

Oh thank you! Have fun trying your title for size, and if you find that it does not fit you will at least have learned something

[@Parageist99]

@@ouroborista of course, thank you! :D its gonna be fun designing like my planet and everything, those are some of my favorite parts of sburb lol

[@alicequintanilla3718]

your reads on deleuze, nick land and mark fischer are all extremely good

[@ouroborista]

Haha, I would kind of hope so. Those three take up a frankly worrying amount of my brainspace, so if they're not spot on I might as well give up. Funnily enough I finished a lengthy writeup about Land on my website just today if you're interested: ouroborista.neocities.org/articles/land

[@snowrhodes9176]

im so glad that the algorithm recommended this to me when it did as ive been wanting to make a ttrpg based around spurb and the classpect system and this is by far the most ive agreed with a more "rigid" definition of the classpect system id also like to mention that as a rouge of blood i felt incredibly called out by the descriptors

[@ouroborista]

Oh, sounds fun. A friend of mine once tried something similar so good luck! Thanks, that's what they're there for. The sensation of feeling called out is vital for typing yourself after all

[@Shinobi_Fox]

Thanks for doing this video, I haven't really found anything quite as insightful into the classpects before, I think the closest might have been optimistic duelists stuff but they never really brushed into the individual aspects and classes in nearly as much detail. Out of interest, do you have any more insight on how the behaviours/patterns/interactions might manifest for a Blood player? Specifically in respects to the more active classes. My classpect is Mage of Blood and I definitely know Mage fits my personality and general behaviour pretty perfectly but I'm still trying to figure out what Blood means in a deeper sense for the individual beyond the surface level stuff of "charismatic leadership type", like what is "knowing" Blood supposed to mean I guess? Thanks again for the awesome video. ^^

[@ouroborista]

Wow, being compared to Taz is quite the honour. This video probably would not exist if they hadn't shown me that there is an audience for classpect analysis on KZbin. Thank you! The leadership role of blood is definitely exaggerated in the comic, because the blood players we do see there have to deal with the direct legacy of the sufferer. Blood players tend to be good leaders because of their pragmatism and focus on tight bonds as opposed to breath's unshackledness, but that's by no means universal and rarely as extreme as for the Vantas line. It might be useful to look at Tyzias and Stelsa from Friendsim. Neither of them are born leaders. They're a yoga-mom and a dissident academic who plays her cards face down if she plays them at all. Neither of them could give a good speech. What they do share is fuel and a willingness to burn it. The blood in their veins. That might be one of the most recognisable traits of the aspect. A propensity towards insomnia, a willingness to sink everything you have into what you believe. Martyrs get off at this station. For Stelsa this has a more corporate character and for Tyzias a more political one, but it boils down to the same thing. The frustration of it gets subsumed into their very being instead of them growing disillusioned, which ties in to the pragmatism again. Blood players tend to fall in love with the process, not the idealized vision. Kankri's still blowing his whistle after millenea of no one listening to him. That's also why they tend to be good with people: they deal with what's actually there instead of with a fiction of what should be. To know blood is to understand drive and conviction. Perhaps ideology. To recognise the obligations we have to each other and the bonds which sprout them. Maybe knowing to use them, maybe knowing to be cautious of them, certainly knowing to analyze all perceivable processes my these metrics. (And knowing *through* blood, which is to say learning from the process and the community found along the way)

[@Shinobi_Fox]

​@@ouroborista Thank you so much for this, I know at the end of the day this is just speculation and that none of us are mythological heroes with literal magic powers just because we felt a calling to a title system in a webcomic, but its still a pleasant and meaningful form of introspection and self-reflection and helps understand who we are and how we engage in and with the world (at least I find it helps with that for me) so I appreciate you taking the time to write out so much just for one persons youtube comment. I haven't really explored the Friendsim stuff yet so I'll do that at some point. This reply really helps make it easier to understand and I can definitely relate to a good chunk of it too, especially sinking everything one has into their beliefs, and the comment on drive and conviction (especially since a good chunk of my own personal goals are driven by the connections I have with people (or the desire to have ones that don't exist yet down the line). I do find it a bit amusing that the 2 likely Bloodbound characters you mentioned are Tealbloods because I am a Libra by sign, so that was cool. Thanks again!!

[@ouroborista]

Oh yeah, I completely agree. It is just a fun little system to play around with at the end of the day, but there's nothing more human than finding meaning in the apparently frivolous. You're very welcome. I'm so happy to see people engage with work that I put some time and passion into that the least I can do is give thoughtful replies. I want this to be a comment section worth perusing after all. Friendsim is highly recommended. That along with its sequel pesterqest is probably my favourite bit of post-canon homestuck content. It's really really good. As a brief clarifying note: them being blood players isn't just my headcanon, their caste-symbols identify them as such according to the extended zodiac.

[@atomykebonpyre]

Oh yeah just casually uproot my entire understanding of not only classpects but myself /j Love ur work tho this shit is top tier and I will be rewatching this shit over a hundred more times. -derse-leaning page of mind

[@ouroborista]

I hope you've been uprooted to a larger pot where you may dig those tendrils deeper into the fertile soil of identity /j thank you

[@Queer_Nerd_For_Human_Justice]

KNIGHT-MAID IS RIGHT AND YOU SHOULD FEEL RIGHT :D

[@enkori_]

I always thought I was a knight or like, knight of rage or even light. Until I found your video and needless to say I'm not sure how I feel about being a Rogue Of Breath. It does fit me a lot though that's for sure. Thank you for this long but understandable and very good analysis of the classpect and aspect!

[@ouroborista]

Glad I could be of help, and while it's understandable to feel conflicted about sharing a title with Rufioh, rogue of breath (as indeed all of them) is a perfectly respectable role which can be wielded well or poorly. Sissel and Iceweasel are both noch more aspirational RoBs to my mind.

[@theatheistpaladin]

Very interested concept. I guess I am a knight of mind with minor aspects of light and life.

[@JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles]

Just read the text version and wow that was amazing. Wholly agreed near 100% with the entire aspect portion, then vehemently disagreed with the entire class portion, but still enjoyed reading every bit of it! I'm pretty boring with my interpretation of classes, taking the p orthodox (+/-) Md/Sy - Kn/Pg - Mg/Sr - *L/M* - Wt/Hr - Th/Rg - Pr/Br stance, with the active/passive split being, well, just that, active and passive forms of the verb. Active classes are the agents of their verbs "[Prince] destroys [object]" while passive classes share the same exact verb, but take a passive role in the sentence "[object] is destroyed by/near/with [Bard]" sometimes also passive classes have their aspect act with their verb upon themselves "[Page] is served by [Aspect]." The verbs I'd assign, if anyone is curious, are, right to left, Heal Serve(Both in terms of carrying out a duty, and in giving) Know Do/Be Manipulate(Or Change, or Use) Steal Destroy(Though they more.. prune, they may sometimes feel they want to eradicate something, especially their aspect, but actually doing so seems to be a good way to fail as a destroyer class, and something often holds them back from doing so.) ThoHr btw, or maybe WtoHr... Or maybe SroHr!? The eternal struggle of the Heartbound.

[@ouroborista]

Thank you Haha yeah sometimes that's just how it goes. Especially when you're coming from Taz's school of classpecting, the aspect section is quite a bit more compatible with that, only adding some mechanics and disagreeing a bit about symmetries

[@JuniperHatesTwitterlikeHandles]

@@ouroborista Yeah I have my fair share of disagreements with Taz's system of classes, but I can't deny they've been influential, especially with the pairings.

[@TheAkumuKing]

*I WAS WRONG BUT FOR THE SAKE OF CONTEXT* With the Classespects, I think the respective opposites are cool. SPOILERS AHEAD FOR ACT 5(i think) . . . . . Damara’s classpect is the Witch of Time, and Aranea explains that Damara became the inverse (dont remember how), a Seer of Space. Damara could manipulate where she was and know where people would be when. Then as a seer, she can “see” where people are in space. The wiki does a better job at explaining

[@ouroborista]

The wiki does not do a better job at explaining this because the wiki says nothing like it (though it does have a pretty embarrassing mistake where it gives Aranea's quote about Porrim on Damara's page instead). Even that's still maid of space though. Everything about Damara post breakdown is still solidly in line with her given classpect (sabotage at critical points in the timeline). I'm not gonna pretend like I have every line in homestuck memorized, but I'm pretty sure Aranea didn't say that. So please clarify

[@TheAkumuKing]

It appears i was mistaken in regards to Aranea. After some research, however, i saw somewhere that Calliope said something related to the inversion? To actually know for sure, I would need to read all of Calliope’s interactions, specifically with Roxy, because I believe that is when she could have possibly explained it. In regard to me saying the inverse of a Witch is a Seer, that it just what I have seen the most of. Ive seen the classes organized as Exploitation (Knight and Page), Manipulation (Witch and Heir), Stealing (Thief and Rogue), Destruction (Prince and Bard), Creation (Maid and Sylph), and Knowing (Mage and Seer). The respective opposites being Exploiting/Stealing, Manipulating/Knowing, and Creating/Destroying. Using what I have seen prior, the opposites would be Knight/Rogue, Thief/Page, Prince/Sylph, Maid/Bard, Mage/Heir, and Witch/Seer. I found many tumblr blogs interpreting them that are sound to me. I realize this is different than what you presented in the video, but I find seeing different interpretations of the whole classpect clusterfuck very interesting. I hope this clarifies where I’m coming from :]

[@ouroborista]

No problem, i was just very confused for a bit. Classpect inversion is not addressed directly within the comic by anyone. It’s a fan-theory originally floated by bladekind eyewear. Aspect mirroring is addressed by callie, but we never get explicit examples of mirrored classes, (which is why we don’t know for sure what the pairs are). The class pairs you list here are those of optimistic duelist’s, which (i think it’s fair to say) are pretty close to the consensus these days. It’s a vibrant conversation with a bunch of clashing and intermingling takes, i’m not trying to give an overview of that here, i’m much too biased for it, but i do urge everyone to seek out different positions and come to a synthesis. The previously mentioned, but also Arrghus, classpect-navelgazing and many many others.

[@reddraws4261]

Welp, my class is def Prince for sure. Just gotta discover the Aspect, it's either Rage, doom or light (i also get a lot of time but i reckon its because of my actual class, that it's really active in combination with the aspects) - Prospit-leaning Prince of... something.

[@theriverdrawsnear]

thank you for your analysis, this must be the most concise yet precise classpecting document i ever had the pleasure the of reading. It helped me tremendously to classpect my blorbos, which i cannot thank you enough for. By the way i cannot help but wonder what classpect you have yourself. I am a dersite seer of rage if you are interested.

[@ouroborista]

Thank you so much! A big issue I have with the writeups I tend to see (aside from plain disagreements) is that they often seem somewhat rambly to me, so making this one sleek and to the point was a primary focus. Glad to know that this goes appreciated, and hope you have fun typing. Work is still being done on a complete 288 character example chart, so I definitely know the impulse. I type myself as Seer of Void with a relatively weak derse sway.

[@flamingpi2245]

I really love this video, I’m not too sure life is bound by any “laws of nature” though, that feels more like a doomy thing. Life to me feels like hyperactive growth and progress, it has no limitations, it’s both patient and impatient and it’s always looking up and up

[@ouroborista]

Thank you! Maybe "convention" is a better way of putting it. Doom is about the actual deterministic rules of the system you are inhabiting, whereas life is about "the way that is natural" as in "the thing which seems intuitively correct". Jane's unwillingness to believe anything out of the ordinary about her friends, and her trouble grasping the idea that Jake might be gay. Life players just seem to construct these very concrete systems of the way things are in their head. Sort of the way Feferi doesn't even consider abolishing the caste hierarchy, but instead wants to change the meaning of the term culling, or how she "cages cuttlefish for their own good even if they don't need to be" because that's just obviously the good and nice thing to do. Meenah of course takes it an entire different direction by fleeing to the moon to abandon the role as empress. Stealing herself away from the natural order of things. But then still retaining her deep adoration for the person she would have become if she had filled her rightful place. The fact that all the life players we see are heiresses of some variety is quite telling. Again: the aspect is a theme. You don't have to like it it just has to inform your actions. They're all at the cusp of having to figure out what they want to do with the conventions dropped in their lap.

[@flamingpi2245]

@@ouroborista Hmmm. I suppose so. I think there’s an important element of strong positive emotion and power as well. There was a theory I heard once that trickster mode works by overcharging the body with life

[@ouroborista]

@@flamingpi2245 maybe? I don't know, Feferi seems like the only one to really strongly match that description to me. Huh. I definitely think of trickster mode as a rage thing, which I think was the common interpretation at some point. Obviously the clown theme, the audience-hostility and the disregard for narrative convention vitiating all plausible pay-offs.

[@kaichristian4131]

god i love this treatise so much.........

[@ouroborista]

Thank you!

[@darthvader9665]

No idea what this is but you seem to know alot about it

[@zoneri]

An additional foot note to foot note [3] on syzygies is that not only would your proposed syzygies have 2 active and 2 passive players on each of the kids sessions, but it would also mean that when the trolls separated themselves into team red and team blue that both teams would have 3 active and 3 passive players, another fun but irrelevant meta-argument

[@ouroborista]

Do they? Maybe I'm misremembering the teams, but I think blue team leans active and red team passive, though I agree that it would be neat. Edit: I must have been tired when I responded to this, yes it works perfectly

[@zoneri]

@@ouroborista Blue team (Active: Eridan Prince, Feferi Witch, Sollux Mage and Passive: Equius Heir, Aradia Maid, Nepeta Rouge) and Red Team (Active: Karkat Knight, Tavros Page, Vriska Thief and Passive: Terezi Seer, Gamzee Bard, Tavros Page). Also also noted is that with those syzygies Derse and Prospit would also have balance in active passive dreamers (for the trolls Sollux who even though he has 2 dream selves is noted as derse-leaning with the extended zodiac, and as the Mage of Doom Sollux set up these teams most likley through his knowledge gain via is "protection" from doom as he could directly see who was on both moons as Red team are Prospit and blue team are Derse). and for the kids sessions you have the Prospit active of Jade and Jake, passive of John and Jane, Derse active Dave and Dirk passive Rose and Roxy. which additionally shows the Guardian/player pairs in the kids universe share active/passive lean and moon lean. It is fun to note that the main difference from yours compared to the more commonly accepted one that I have seen Used by optimisticDuelist is the Active/passive swap of Knight and Maid. -a pattern loving Prospit-leaning Mage of Mind

[@ouroborista]

Oh yes, great catch! No Idea what was going through my head last week. Thank you!

[@thenyansquidman]

This supported the classpects I gave my friends . Mostly…. It actually just felt like a call out post for myself saying that I constantly wanna do multiple things but this leads to things never really being completed 💀

[@ouroborista]

A description feeling like a callout is a good sign of it being accurate, or at least close to your own mental model. Thanks, have fun with it

[@keaton5101]

I put off watching this video for a long time because it was.... LONG... but it's really good and I'm glad I've watched it. I've watched and read a lot of classpecting theory, and I feel like I have an extremely good understanding of aspects, but I felt like my understanding of the classes was sort of incomplete. I was kinda stuck on the "for self/for others" thing, and having a hard time figuring out how classes could pair together in a way that makes sense. I feel like this video has given me a lot to work off of and I'll probably be coming back to reference it in the future. I do have one issue, though. Page of Rage for Shinji Ikari? I've classpected Eva characters in the past and I came to almost the same conclusions as you about Rei and Asuka (I had Maid of Heart and Thief of Light, respectively, though I think Knight does fit Rei better now), but I think Shinji is almost certainly a Page of Blood. His entire character is about his desire for connection with others and inability to express it, how he shuts out the world and disconnects from others instead of opening up to them, but in the end he realizes that connection with others is basically the most important thing ever forever. Anyway, because of that greivous error I am requesting a refund for this video, thanks. (thats a joke, if you do believe rage fits him better then i would like to know why)

[@ouroborista]

Thanks, it means a lot! I don't think page of blood is a bad typing for shinji. It's probably the second best, but it doesn't capture his arc in a way that is satisfying to me. There could be a blood-coded resolution to a story about the pain of proximity which ends in rejecting instrumentality, but it wouldn't happen the way it does in Eva. Shinji doesn't reject HI because it's not "real community" in some way, he rejects it because it's too easy, because it feels like running away. And so he makes a choice. Not one about the social but one about reality. About honestly. And he tears down the artiface to try again. Throughout the show shinji runs away to avoid making choices. He is slotted into a sociopolitical paradigm against his will and he lacks the ability to truly reject it, so he tries and often fails to play along to meet expectations placed upon him. Eva as a whole has much to say about the self and the individual, but Shinji's role within that story seems to me to be one about will and rejecting artiface. That is the rocky road of the page ahead of him. One that doesn't necessarily leave him as a man of the people by the end but honest and decisive

[@fool4343]

i classpected myself as bard of void, though i havent read carefully homestuck. but i can see it now more properly, i think though im not sure for class i know for certain my voidboundness. i enjoy hoarding knowledge, hoping i will save it from being unknown, but ultimately no one needs them. its just feels tragic that something might fall into complete obscurity and i want to be a haven for such sad useless things

[@ouroborista]

Well, good luck figuring the rest of that out. I don't want to bias you too much, since I don't know you and this is relatively little information to work with, but going by just this, Maid at least seems like a possibility. You might want to read up on those

[@interstellarturtle9775]

If I may insert some thought regarding the aspect wheel, I enjoy the system of understanding through which the spirit of an aspect is concerning its vertical pair, while the material of an aspect is concerned with its horizontal pair. We can find breath and blood to be purely spiritually based aspects from which other aspects are derived, as without the relation between them, their application would not exist. In line with this, Space and Time would be purely material based aspect, from which other aspects are derived. Without the material that is space, the very construction of itself would not be possible. I see you can construct breath associated intra-communcations out of life and hope. Which leads to literal chemistry of the aspects. Constructing space out of mind and void may be interpreted as the isolation of the mind as the player away from other team associated events. From this phenomenon, I question the consistent result of fruitful sessions to have a Time and Space player to be even necessary, as the aspects of Space itself can be found through relative means of Mind and Void.

[@ouroborista]

Oh that's a really useful way of understanding those symmetries. It does sort of naturally follow from the axes along which the mirroring occurs, but this is a delightfully concise way of framing it. Personally I don't much care whether the idea that a time and a space player are necessary for a successful session is true or not (in fact we know it isn't. For all its weirdness, caliborn's session is successful by its own metric). None of us are playing sburb, and any fanwork would be well advised to take those liberties which allow it to fully explore what it means to explore, so the point is rendered moot from most angles. Still, there is surely some truth to the idea that any healthy sessions requires aspects of the respective approaches of time and space, which may well be met by these mirrors under fortuitous conditions.

[@flamingpi2245]

@@ouroborista I really like the two adjacent aspects can add to create the middle aspect theory. To extend it, breath and light are the aspects of life in Christianity, both are important for all forms of life, and when you have freedom and fortune you get the opportunity to grow

[@flamingpi2245]

You can create (space) by sorting through the choices of causality (mind) and choosing certain paths while allowing yourself to peacefully disregard the rest (void)

[@flamingpi2245]

Action (time) is spurred on by knowledge (light) and emotion (heart) Action and growth lead to the acquisition of knowledge and fortune Idealism when allowed to grow results in freedom Freedom and an understanding of the choices in front of you leads to idealism in that you feel free to select the paths you wish to take Creation and idealistic vision lead to a staggering multitude of paths and choices The destruction of space leaves a void The absence of the tethering bonds leads to doom Disillusionment inevitability and the hard truth lead to a sense of responsibility and obligation Activity Fighting against delusion leads to an understanding of the self

[@BirdRaiserE]

Cool presentation, but you forgot an asterisk next to Robespierre in the examples section. And, I'm assuming, any fictional characters that are villains in their stories, since I notice only real people get asterisks. He kept that guillotine running day and night, dude. That's surely worse than Reddit's most hated psychologist.

[@ouroborista]

Alright, let me preface this by saying that I'm not out here running around in a "biggest Robespierre fan #virtue #billions of dead traitors to the republic"-hat. I did consider giving him an asterisk and there's a good case to be made that he should have one, but he feels very much like a different category from the others. Was he an egomaniac who, in his paranoia, killed a bunch of people who did not need to be killed? Yes. But he was also vital for drafting of the montagnard constitution (which never went into effect, I'm aware, but was intensely important for how the rest of the French revolution and therefore all further revolutions played out. I can't say entirely fuck him. Only about 80% fuck him. The mountain was an important radicalising force, and I'm a big fan of not having monarchies. That's not to say all is forgiven, it isn't, but the asterisk is for complete and utter disavowal (especially for people who do have fan bases that I want nowhere near me). I don't know, are there a bunch of unhinged Robespierrites I should be distancing myself from? Maybe. Maybe I want a tiered asterisk system with a more detailed description of what it means (if it were about absolute harm done, Robespierre would definitely get one). Anyway, concern noted, might revise in the next draft. You're correct about the "fictional characters don't get asterisks"-part On a different note: Reddit hates Peterson? I don't really engage with the platform, but I was under the impression that they constituted his base.

[@theodawson9465]

Man, this is a great video, I'm not even 10 minutes into it but it's just the type of video essay I enjoy centred on one of the things I found most interesting about Homestuck, as I'm in the process of rereading it. I have to ask-- your description of Aspect as Force really *really* reminds me of the relationship between the Fear entities in the Magnus Archives and the "Avatars" who serve them. Often described as "Gods" especially in the context of those who actively "serve" them in variously explicitly religious contexts, but in other less explicit contexts, they still "feed" them. While I don't believe the pollen analogy is used explicitly in the podcast, the dialogue of "applying a will" to these powers that perpetuate themselves is certainly something that's meditated a lot on in the work. Are you familiar at all with The Magnus Archives and this lore? or is this all completely unintelligible to you? is I guess what I'm asking. If you're familiar with it, do you think the Homestuck Aspects can be accurately described as the "god-like powers of hope, or love, or indigestion, or whatever." that are explicitly stated to not be a part of the canon in TMA? I think this parallel is kind of neat.

[@ouroborista]

Thank you! Yes I am very familiar with TMA (I even submitted a short story to rusty fears once), and the terminology in that section is specifically meant as a reference so that people could draw the analogy. I think (willing) avatars capture the idea of serving ones aspect nicely. They do it in their own way, doing whatever they think they should, but the end result is still a strengthening of the entity. My personal headcanon is that the Homestuck aspects don't exist (in HS) as actual deities (or facets of a single deity) in a walled off dimension the way they do in Magnus, but from a human perspective that doesn't really matter. It's still a spreadable Idea, one we feed and one which feeds us. Most concepts don't have a will of their own but that doesn't stop us from propagating them. Sometimes (often) even when doing so isn't in our best interest. It's just memetic capture at the end of the day in my mind. Mass hysteria spreads in our world without need for the Spiral. So short answer yes from the human vantage point I think they're analogous, while on a mesa-narrative level they might not be

[@theodawson9465]

@@ouroborista awesome! I’m so glad my intuition was right. And I think I agree with you, the aspects in homestuck have seemed to err on the side of metacommentary more than as literal sburb game constructs, outside of physical god-tier powers.

[@hanssolo1643]

Hi! I am a prospit leaning thief of heart and your video was the answers ive been looking for! From what i gathered a thief of heart would be able to steal any role/ aspect. Which i was wondering based of the assumption; in the video you went into detail about class switching and i was wondering if it ties together?

[@ouroborista]

Thank you! Yes, I sometimes refer to it as the "actor"- archetype of thieves of heart (also sometimes other heartbounds, but with a few more steps in the way). Appropriating the idea of another and filling their role when the need arises for fun and profit. Now I don't think this usually results in an actual switch of classpect, you're just trying in on for size after all, but under the right circumstances and if you draw on another role a bunch, it's not impossible. "Fake it till you make it" is a very real effect even when you aren't specifically striving for it and if you walk in different shoes for long enough they will start to feel like your own. It really depends on how solid the person's identity is at that moment, but especially for young folks or someone going through a crisis, the thing might actually become a version of the thing they stole.

[@hanssolo1643]

@@ouroborista thank you :D! When i first found out i felt like this title just didn’t fit me at all, i felt bad being labeled a thief! I didn’t even begin to understand just how extensive classpect is! But i realize through your pattern recognition that its not actually such a big surprise at all! Amazing research dude! Thank you for putting your smarts out there!

[@nathanblackburn1193]

So one thing about the Life aspect characters that I've noticed is a slight theme of indulgence and/or consumption example Jane, Feferi and Meenah are all wealthy heiresses (Meenah especially love money), Jane and Meenah have an affinity for baking sweets and if we go beyond Homestuck the webcomic there's Lanque from Friendsim who is quite lustful towards the player character in the 18+ route, we even see this in negative Lifebound characters like the Condess and Crocker tier Jane with the Condess loving money and power and Crocker Jane extorting money from Kanaya's blood craving and her treatment of Jake with her openly calling him hot and planning on forcing him into marriage. Semi-unrelated but my classpect is Knight of Life (though I'm torn between that or Prince of Life)

[@ouroborista]

Yeah, though I wouldn't necessarily frame it as consumption. This is sort of what I'm going for with "accumulation". It feels closer to collecting for collecting's sake. Meenah doesn't want wealth for something, she just wants it. Jane talks about sinking the gnarled claws of crocker corp onto the postal service for very little actual gain. They seem to have an internal conception that these are just desirable things to have in the abstract and so they will accumulate them. Same for Jane continuing crocker corp in a post-scarcity world or for the Condesce trying to remake the hemospectrum on alpha earth just because she thinks that that's the way things are supposed to be. And yeah Lanque definitely also fits into that idea of indulgence, though in his case (I think he's a prince) that tendency is directed against that which is taken to be socially desirable, i.e. the sacred role of Jades.

[@ValeOfMuses]

Not me preparing to use this for reference in fleshing out a whole bunch of characters, including the main character of my next big project (The Zules Title Test, if anyone else is familiar, assigned him Thief of Blood and I kind of hate it, so either this changes my mind and he's actually something else or it shows me more depth to the combo and makes me like it again) Thank you for putting an insane amount of effort into this, definitely earned a new subscriber out of me! As a question - when constructing a character's Classpect, do you generally prefer to start with the class or the aspect part?

[@ouroborista]

Thank you! Yeah not to bash the many wonderful efforts at constructing title quizzes out there too much, but the system is just so interrelated that I don't think they can ever be much more than a starting point. For typing real people I tend to start with a class, because behavioural patterns are more obvious, whereas characters in media are often quite theme-foreward, so that an aspect slots into place first. I have never designed a character starting from their classpect, though I have assigned classpects retrospectively to most characters I've written. They tend to start out in my head in the form of a situation they find themselves in or some belief they hold.

[@ValeOfMuses]

@@ouroborista You're welcome! And I would agree - I like the Zules test because it doesn't bother being a detailed personality quiz and essentially just hands you a definition of the classes and aspects (in that order, with class choosing which relation-to-aspect question you see) and asks you to choose which suits you best. Which is a great starting point, but still doesn't indicate too much, yeah. (For the record I thought on it overnight and I think the guy is actually best suited as a Maid of Mind, with a few revisions to make this more suitable.) And I had a feeling there would be a difference between real people and characters - they're made up so differently, and a character can never be quite as complex as a living person no matter how hard we try. Thank you for answering!

[@appsawcee]

I just got into study classpects recently, and after watching this video I still have a bit of questions As a person, I believe strongly is commitments and obligations (staying loyal and stuff), but I also strong resonate with the ideologies about the self. But Blood is described to be more group-oriented and less self-oriented, which doesbt resonate with me. Heart is described to be more impulsive/ act-first-think-later, which doesnt resonate with me either. I’ve been searching everywhere I could but I’m still at a loss. Is it possible for a Blood-bound to be more self-oriented? Is it possible for a Heart-bound to be logical/strategic without letting emotion also blind them?

[@ouroborista]

Let's tackle the easy part first: yes, heartbounds can absolutely be logical and strategic, and not just destroyers like Dirk. Boldir Friendsim would be another example. Heart has themes of intuition and the big picture, which some people associate with impulsiveness and carelessness, but I do not think those necessary follow. In general it's important to keep in mind that strategy -how one handles their themes- lies more strongly in the domain of the class. Knights are big on commitment and loyalty for example, while the aspect is more in charge of what they would be loyal to and for what reason. For the other part, it really depends on what about group orientedness doesn't sit right with you. If it's that you typically work better alone, have trouble making connections or anything like that, this is completely fine. Sometimes one needs to play one's cards close to the chest for the benefit of a social vision (see Tyzias Friendsim for example). Again the group only needs to be a drive, a theme. If on the other hand the concept of groups and connections doesn't haunt you, if that doesn't pop up in your thought process much, then you almost certainly aren't a bloodbound.

[@appsawcee]

@@ouroborista It's not that I'd rather work alone than working with a group, I'd just rather work 1 on 1 with someone. With a big group, there's a lot of moving parts you gotta keep track of like what everyones personality is like and how they handle certain things (typing this out made me realize that Yeah I'm probably heart). The only reason I'd work with a big group is if I knew everyone in said group. I can't work w strangers because I don't know what they're like. I would be stressed if I were thrown into a situation where I had to work with a group of people I didn't know well. (Depending on the situation, I'd try to get to know everyone and Then take action, but I wouldn't jump right into it without knowing what group I'm jumping into if that makes sense)

[@St0nek]

The whole Force talk got me thinking about tma Especialy with your usage of the words "entity" and "serving" Well there are bound to be some simmiliarities when your story has 12 or 14 quasi-boxes you can put your characters into that hint towards specific characteristics...

[@ouroborista]

Oh yeah I had a long discussion with my beta-readers about how the relationships of different avatars to their entities can also be split along the force-material-domain trinary

[@St0nek]

@@ouroborista Dear god

[@appsawcee]

I also have a question about the classes. Mages are described to have suffered through their aspect and learned from said suffering, but how exactly are Seers brought up? What is like…. one STRIKING difference between the Mage and Seer (besides being active/passive)?

[@ouroborista]

How they're brought up is an interesting way of framing it, and one I haven't given that much thought. There's probably all sorts of ways it can happen, but seers tend to develop obsession as a type of escapism pretty early on. Both Rose and Terezi obviously had home situations in which this might occur. Mages develop all sorts of skills and idiosyncrasies to deal with their aspect, to make it safe to touch and wrangle it into shape, while seers tend to develop skill in their aspect as a way of dealing with all the rest. Even when they burn themselves they consider this a small price to pay. They owe it so much after all. A mage in the same situation would take a step back, reassess and make damn sure they have a way not to get burned next time. This isn't an absolute of course, it's a general trend, and there are certainly situations in which a seer gets hurt badly enough as to waver.

[@appsawcee]

When you say "dealing with all the rest," what do you mean? Do you mean the rest of the aspect? Or how they apply that aspect to the rest of life? And also, what would it mean if a Seer were to obsess over developing indiosyncrasies? (I hope this question doesn't sound stupid) if a Seer were to be hurt badly and became obsessed with reflecting on themselves and working to become a better person, would that then turn them into a Mage? I'm still a bit confused on where the differences between the Seer and the Mage stand.. so let me ask: What is something a Mage would do that a Seer would NOT do? And what is something a Seer would do that a Mage would NOT do? @@ouroborista

[@ouroborista]

@@appsawcee Dealing with the rest of reality. Trying to avoid anything that is arbitrary and nonsensical in the case of rose and trying to read it through the lens of meaning/relevance instead. All the strange things her mom does are reframed as mind games, so there's purpose to them now even if it's a malicious one. Any dream or off-colour utterance is reframed through Freudian analysis as something that speaks to a deeper truth. She deals with reality by substituting it for light, because that is the only thing she can deal with without feeling lost. Endless self reflection sounds like a heart-bound thing to do. Generally I don't think it's likely that getting burned will turn someone into a mage, because changing class just isn't that common of a thing period. If the burn forces you to reassess yourself and your position in the world generally, if it leaves no meaningful progress but to halt, melt, catch fire and rebuild, then yes this may very well be the sort of thing that makes someone a mage. It doesn't have to, but it can. I object to the framing that there is anything a certain class flatly would not do. Outlier scenarios can always be constructed in which unusual decisions are made. There are only things they do not tend to do. Let's go with heart as an example case, because that seems to be where you're leaning. A seer and a mage might notice a boundary of theirs which they previously weren't aware of being overstepped. The seer is obsessed with the self, so their first impulse is curiosity about why they have this. They might prod at it more to figure out its shape regardless of discomfort. Only afterwards would they maybe think about how to make sure it doesn't get overstepped again. A mage would not do this under normal circumstances. A mage cherishes the self and knows that recklessness can cause damage and close the door to further insight. They would try to remove themselves from the negative experience first, make sure to implement safeguards, and only in a situation where they can provide comfort and be cautious with their inner self would they begin to query the feeling and see what it is about, now that they have made it safe. A seer would not do this under normal circumstances.

[@blue4669]

I really do wonder how much color wheel theory applies to aspects in your take... you know, like Analogous, Complementary, Triadic, Split-Complementary, and Tetradic etc relationships. Your essay already confirms you hold there are tetradic and standard complementary relationships. For myself, I've previously found my interactions related to Hope, Mind, Space, Heart, and Blood. [Your assessment in combination with the official test both dub me as a Prospitian Mage of Hope. I originally strongly fought the Hope tag in favor of Space or Mind.] Your descriptions of Space-leaning or Time-leaning methods of perceptions and interactions do make me feel less inclined towards a primary typing of Blood or Heart than i used to be, but interesting to myself is that both of those aspects are a perfect Split Complementary to Hope. Do you think that using a combination of complementary, tetradic, and split-complimentary approaches to aspect evaluation can help an unsure analyst reach a satisfying conclusion, or is it merely coincidence in my case? Do you think other forms of color schemes apply? - a reader of the online document who came to your video for conversation

[@blue4669]

Addendum: I believe a long time ago, it may have been optimisticDuelist that referenced something similar

[@ouroborista]

Sorry it took so long to answer, you've picked a bad month to be inquisitive. So the short answer is that complementary and tetradic are the only ones I've found consistent descriptions for, but that doesn't mean they're the only ones I believe to exist. Not to go on another authorial intent rant, but I strongly doubt the wheel or classpecting as a whole was designed to contain most of the symmetries that can be found within it, but it is simply very hard to construct a sufficiently deep descriptive system without creating patterns. GA, who proofread this doc has an enormous fascination with triadic and split complementary symmetries in the wheel, but while I agree with most of their takes, I think it's currently still more a collection of examples than a formalized system, so it would diminish the Doc's overall rigor. I'm profoundly excited for when they do come up with something that might serve as a unifying theory. I can give a very rough and probably unsatisfying explanation of a common pattern within split complementary layouts that feels like it might apply here: The aspects kind of bleed over into their neighbours, they share some relevant modalities and themes, and since action in the service of one aspect often diminishes its complementary (light seeks to fill void), you create a low pressure zone to be filled by its neighbours. This is often completely accidental, but sometimes this pushing apart of the complementary into the adjacent territory is precisely intended. Similarly the attempt to escape from an aspect (note a difference between escaping-to and escaping-from) often leads to the split complementaries. If you're at all familiar with sailing, you'll know that you can't go directly against the wind, but *almost* directly against the wind is one of the fastest trajectories. Especially for mages there's a good bit of discomfort with their aspect (which you seem to recognise, if you are indeed a hopebound), so the attempt to create distance along the longest path actually available (the one that doesn't lead through the centre of semiotic nothingness) leads to the split complementaries blood and heart. Hope that was at least somewhat helpful

[@ralphnoumsi7794]

I like your video and I find it very educational (and accurate because there is new information in the post cannon that maids are passive) but I feel like the class part of the video is very short and focuses to much on how they use their aspect than what their personality traits are. I’m trying to figure out my classpect and I know I’m a lightbound but the class I’m not really sure about. I have read more longer descriptions each class and I find it more helpful than the shorter version. I feel like you are the closest to the answer when it comes to classpecting but I think the shortness of the classes make it harder to tell which you are because the seer sounds like me a little but the longer version of it reveals to me that it’s not really me. Maids sound interesting but I don’t think is uncommon to love your aspect and they’re probably other classes that feel the same when it comes to their aspects

[@ouroborista]

Thanks, though I should point out that this was written after that particular hs^2 page. That was a thing which gave me some of the confidence in my model necessary to write the treatise in the first place. This is fair. I think there's a lot which could be more fleshed out, but in my mind the doc's purpose wasn't so much to be an exhaustive guide of everything but moreso to fill a hole. The individual class analyses out there are mostly descent from where I'm standing so I saw no reason to go deeper on things that a great quantity of words has already been spilled over. What I felt to be lacking in the sphere was a clear and rigorous overall system to slot those specifics into. A gears level from which people can easily chart their course ahead. I understand that one might want more than that, but the period has to be placed somewhere and I am somewhat uncomfortable with turning myself into *too convenient* of a one-stop-shop. It would too willingly allow for people to miss out on the vast pool of opinions that exist out there if their hunger were sated entirely.

[@ralphnoumsi7794]

@@ouroborista I guess that fair. I tried to use your system to find my class but I found the description to be a little too small for me to get much out of it. I get why you did it and I do enjoy your analysis overall

[@jacobzeman1364]

Where does the Waste of Space and the Huss of Lips fit into this?

[@Overcrox]

All over it. And under it.

[@ouroborista]

As audience-hostile jokes

[@woomod2445]

I was so happy to have it READABLE that I did just that. Blah blah, don't agree with your classes or verbs, it is a day that ends in Y. I think my big disagreement, is referring to the axis being time and space. Homestuck is gnostic, Sburb is as you point out in other videos "a system that runs on the suffering of children" who then go and tyrannize a new universe as gods. Sburb is in essence the ultimate "will" of the space aspect, Creation for Creation's sake. The fact the chart is vertically aligned to blood and breath, and we can find more a through line through "idealistic/higher aspects" and "restraining/lower aspects" cemented my view PARADOX SPACE as whole and complete orients around breath and blood, and sburb/space is it's demiurge, it's source of suffering. (Of course it being paradox space you can probably track the line of universes until they circle endlessly.) Heck your addition of vertical pairs only cements this more in my mind, space and time are the exemptions for placing more empathis on stuff than concepts.

[@ouroborista]

Thanks! Yeah I do think the written version is superior. It allows for pace adjustment and can be updated, which are huge benefits, but I've found that videos are easier to recommend to people than long essays. I don't agree that sburb's universe creation loop is a pure manifestation of space. It's far too rigid for that. Specifically iteration and recursion as you describe them are themes of time. It's too goal oriented. Sburb is a domain of the material aspects playing against the idea-driven sphere in which humanity tends to operate. I would put groups as a whole, societies connections and all that as mainly the domain of the blood-breath axis, Sburb as a pure creative engine of time and space, while paradox space is a neutral medium in which the two constructively and destructively interfere. It is nothing more and nothing less than the refractory pattern of spirit and matter. Existence is a tragicomedy of atoms.

[@SharpieWaterOfficial]

I have a question. I was going over your document when i noticed that you made Lain Iwakura a sylph of space in your chart. Could you tell me your reasoning for this?

[@ouroborista]

Of course, at least some basic points. I can always be commissioned for more in depth answers. Keep in mind that this is specifically anime-lain. Game Lain has an even stronger personal preoccupation with identity and is thus more heart coded. Lain infiltrates the wired or emerges from it as a nudging influence, shaping it according to her will, but nope ever perceives this as an active power grab. People follow Lain and begin to worship her out of what feels like their own accord. This is the essential sylph motivation and the essential sylph approach. The wired itself is manifest vastness. It is infinite reach and the ability to go beyond even that, but notable it isn't quite there. The wired is perpetually framed as primarily a source of unbound creative potential. Lain's own penchant to just pick up disparate skills as she needs them and fall down rabbit holes also plays into this. The world itself is scattershot. As a side dish there's also the theme of isolation which is a common thread between space bounds.

[@SharpieWaterOfficial]

@@ouroborista Thanks for your answer! I'm thinking that I may also be a Sylph of Space, plus my friends are always joking that I am literally Lain Iwakura. I appreciate the well thought out response.

[@datamancy138]

adoring the deepcuts with alice isn't dead classpects though i honestly think thistle is a character deserving of Lord status

[@ouroborista]

Very valid take. Yeah, she definitely counts as a "force of nature" and if I had Lord/Muse rows she might well have made it there. A big part of the example chart is just me giving thinly veiled media recommendations, so I'm glad they're being appreciated.

[@datamancy138]

@@ouroborista the biggest dead ringer for any class as you described them was absolutely lisa wilbourn from the web serial novel Worm as a seer, i was just a tiny bit disappointed not to hear her in there, but i do appreciate the podcast picks like jon sims and thistle take that as a media recommendation too

[@ouroborista]

I know about worm but have not read it, so I can't comment. Maybe I'll get around to it eventually. You should really look into Greater Boston if you're into that genre of podcasts

[@quorryraphael9980]

I feel too wishy washy to classpect myself :/ how frustrating

[@ouroborista]

There are other resources you might want to look at to get a more solid grasp of where you fit in. I quite recommend opacifica and the tumblr account classpect-navelgazing, though the writing's of Taz, Arrghus and Dahni or such are also obviously classics for a reason

[@jooj6535]

And with that I guess I myself mostly as Dersite Mage of Rage but I am not completely sure about that, its just that it felt the most... "Me"ish I suppose

[@trappedcosmos]

I have decided on my class being prince but i cant stop flip flopping between aspects, ugh why cant i have a functioning copy of sburb to read my mind

[@ouroborista]

And what would you do with a title for free? It would be nice to have of course. Pleasant to look at for a while. But if you got it without deriving it, it will still be a black box you will still not understand but merely know, and so it will be empty, filled only by doing the exact introspective work you would have to do now. It's a "give someone a fish" versus "teaching them how to fish" situation. Good luck trying to crack it

[@DarkDragon2344]

As an heir of light I must say: your analysis is great, but some parts of it I quite harshly disagree with, and I will gladly tell you why for hours until you change your perspective

[@ouroborista]

Don't threaten me with a good time. After all this document is me doing that exact same thing.

[@Titaneumice]

is there a version of the text version that isnt on a bloack background?

[@ouroborista]

There is not. I can make one of those as soon as I'm back at my laptop tomorrow if that's a thing people would want

[@kylerarts]

Nothing Is True, Everything Is Permitted... I See What You Did There >w>

[@ouroborista]

Few things are as fun as leaving those sorts of breadcrumbs

[@notpukicho2950]

39:55 ... epithet erased mentioned?! Wait... if jello is a homestuck fan... and a homestuck classpecting video essay mentions epithet erased.... Mobius double reacharound.

[@ouroborista]

That's somewhat unsurprising, right? That people with narrative sensibilities that draw then towards a certain work would also themselves produce art which is appealing to people appreciative of that work.

[@lunathetiger1]

classpect the movie was very enlightening but i'm not sure how i feel being compared to bella swan lol - prospit-leaning knight of doom

[@ouroborista]

Haha, who doesn't love Bella? Though of course there are myriad ways of expressing one's classpect, so there's no need to put too much stock in the shared title. Thanks

[@Jude_began_pestering_you]

Jonathan sims is more of a seer of light then rose is

[@ouroborista]

They're both little freaks who'll sell their soul at the altar of insight in a heartbeat, Jon however does have the dubious benefit of being *even more enabled* in that quest by pretty much every dark critter out there.

[@brastionskywarrior6951]

took me about 5 minutes before i learned what the hell classpecting is even from. From the thumbnail I assumed it was some geocities thing

[@ouroborista]

Well since I'm a creature raised on geocities and now occupying neocities that isn't too far off

[@0whatman]

on the witch part rn and na, Utena is definetly a Prince of Blood haha