A virtual reality

Welcome to Midweek-Mini-Mail-Call #55! On this week's episode, we have a little virtual reality, a hand made box for dead parts and a whole load of chips.
-- Video Links
TheRetroChannel (Mark's channel)
/ theretrochannel
Mr. Lurch's Things (Jason's channel)
/ @mrlurchsthings
FEMB Woodcrafts and Decor:
www.etsy.com/s...
Handspring (Company)
en.wikipedia.o...)
Adrian's Digital Basement ][ (Second Channel)
/ @adriansdigitalbasement2
Support the channel on Patreon:
/ adriansdigitalbasement
-- Tools
Deoxit D5:
amzn.to/2VvOKy1
store.caig.com/...
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
amzn.to/3a9x54J
Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
amzn.to/2VrT5lW
Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
amzn.to/2ye6xC0
Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.co...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
amzn.to/3adRbuy
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
amzn.to/2wG4tlP
www.aliexpress...
TS100 Soldering Iron:
amzn.to/2K36dJ5
www.ebay.com/i...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.co...
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
amzn.to/2RDSDQw
www.ebay.com/i...
Magnetic Screw Holder:
amzn.to/3b8LOhG
www.harborfrei...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
www.ebay.com/i...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
www.ebay.com/i...
Heat Sinks:
www.aliexpress...
Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
amzn.to/3b8LOOI
--- Links
My GitHub repository:
github.com/mis...
Commodore Computer Club / Vancouver, WA - Portland, OR - PDX Commodore Users Group
www.commodorec...
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino

[@Dukefazon]

9:10 - the answer is obvious: dead RAM goes into the ram box, the rest of the chips go into the coffin :) Today I bought some Haribo gummy candies when I was doing my grocery shopping and I'm eating some as I'm watching this video.

[@mattelder1971]

Exactly what I was going to suggest.

[@TheRetroChannel]

We need to map the basement in VR, invite everyone, and have a mass 8bit dance party! 🕹️🎶

[@Eireman_on_Twitch]

Too much retro parts. He could fit 4 of us in there. 3 if I'm there... LOL

[@jeromethiel4323]

The rammy box should just be dead ram. It's fitting.

[@thecorruptedbit5585]

"this one should be mini" And yet its 46 minutes long... Not a problem, as more Adrian is always awesome!

[@JARVIS1187]

It should be called "Adrians Awesome Basement"

[@HuntersMoon78]

*42 minutes

[@slashtiger1]

I think he'd be better of changing the name to just Midweek Mail Call, instead of trying to act upon the "Mini" part and failing hard 😉 To our delight of course...!

[@mikipank]

Put only dead RAM chips in the box with the ramy and everything else in the coffin (PLA, ULA, etc.)

[@gosammy1971]

I would say similar: the smaller parts like ram and the 74ls into the ramy and the bigger like eproms, pla, cia, sid, vic, cpu into the coffin

[@yukisaitou5004]

Apparently the expansion slot isn't native PCMCIA, only "Springboard" cards are compatible.

[@KittyFae-]

Yeap. Reminds me that my first "cellphone/smartphone" was my Handspring Visor Prism with a Sprint PCS Springboard module. Bubblet was my favorite game on it and I also read all the Harry Potter books on that thing. Mine didn't turn off when put in to the leather case from what I can remember, but its been forever since I've messed with one.

[@christianseifert7852]

@@KittyFae- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springboard_expansion_slot

[@tankgrrl]

Yeah, back in the day my ex had one and had an MP3 player card for it.

[@6581punk]

That coffin engraving stuff could be CNC.

[@FnordOok]

Exactly my thoughts, I noticed the CNC lines on the skull. Stained first then CNC'd then given polyurethane by the looks of it?

[@pjm780]

Definitely CNC.

[@bengmo64]

Yeah CNC router was my guess too

[@jeromethiel4323]

I worked in a computer repair shop in the mid 80's, and i had a "wall of bad memory." It was literally just a painted drywall. But you could push dips right in. Got about halfway up the wall (narrow wall, maybe 4'x3-1/2') But we replaced chips in banks, so it was always 8 or 9 chips at a shot. And almost none were complete failures, most were intermittent. But memory was the most common electronic failure in the computers i was fixing (IBM PC, XT, AT, Compaqs, etc.).

[@droopysloopy]

You could put the dead ram chips in the box with the ram head and every other chip in the coffin.

[@AndrewTubbiolo]

Sci Fi Story: Dave Murry makes a trip to Computer Reset in Dallas Tx and finds an old box sealed in 1985, in the box is a pile of Commodore 64 disks. While testing them he finds a copy of the "Adrian's 8 bit Dance Party" demo.

[@flekkzo]

Why would the long time guitarist of Iron Maiden go to Computer Reset? (Sorry, couldn’t resist:))

[@frankowalker4662]

@@flekkzo LOL.

[@the_beefy1986]

Handspring Visor. I had a series of these in highschool. I still have a working Visor Prism, which supported more colors than the Palm branded counterpart, the Palm IIIc. That Springboard expansion slot was the shit too. They had a phone/modem module for it, which I think makes it one of the first true smartphones. :)

[@scottlarson1548]

They had a serial port. I used a terminal program to test mainframe serial ports at client sites. It was a lot easier than dragging a VT220 or a late 90's laptop around to multiple buildings.

[@jnharton]

I've only ever seen a few internet pics, but there was apparently a phone card and app for the Apple Newton 2000/2100 as well. The Newton 2xxx line had 2 type 2 PC Card slots and I believe the cellular radio/modem was a PC Card add-on. I'm not sure either company had an official "phone" solution, at least not early on, but they did exist as far as I can tell.

[@blockbertus]

When you first said "Enhance... Enhance" I was like "He doesnt watch SMA, does he?!" And later you explained that you actually do. How cool is that.

[@markae0]

I am looking at the channel now and have not hit a video. This guy ?South Main Auto Repair LLC

[@blockbertus]

@@markae0 Yes, that guy

[@Hemidog]

Love Eric O's videos!

[@xnonsuchx]

I fully agree on the “Duraleaks” name. I’ve had far more Duracells corrode (at least for AA and AAA size) than any other brand, so I usually get Energizers (if not much pricier).

[@alexdhall]

Yep. I've even had Duracell batteries leak outside of a device on my kitchen table...😬

[@xnonsuchx]

@@alexdhall I've had that too...and even well before the date they claim to be good through. Not many, but a few.

[@PavelUrusov]

I think the coffin was made on a CNC router. At least the carving.

[@MattEnwright]

Came here to say the same.

[@AndrewTubbiolo]

When I first played with a Palm Pilot, my first thought was "These would be really cool if combined with a cell phone.". Always a day late, and a dollar short.

[@my3dprintedlife]

First phone I had was a Palm Treo smartphone.

[@timstein]

I had multiple Visors and they came with Bluetooth built in. I got a Sony/Ericson cell phone for the Bluetooth so I could use my Visor to send and receive text messages.

[@IcicleFurry]

Two ideas: 1. You should put dead ICs in the Dead Chips coffin and the rest (transistors, diodes etc.) in the Dead Parts box 2. for the 82S101: it looks like there is a lid that wants to come off. Maybe it will expose the die making it erasable?

[@mallon04008]

Had a blue transparent handspring back in the early 2000s. Love that device. Besides the PDA functionality you could do some light word processing and play fun games on it. Good times!

[@UNSCPILOT]

Transparent electronics need to make a comeback, black everything is getting rather lame XD

[@Kooq5]

Sounded like it was a virtual PAL machine judging by the speed of the music. ;)

[@marcelofrau8818]

That palm remind me how much I was into that.. I loved my Zire and after I got a Lifedrive, it was amazing, and the battery life was so good that lasted more than weeks using every day, I played a lot of games from PopCap in these devices, used to play my mp3 files in the car, and also as a software engineer I remember doing a lot of trials programming into them.. Good days and good memories, thanks for showing this.. :D Great video, I love your videos.. Keep up the good work!

[@ncot_tech]

I had the Palm IIIx at university. I wrote my entire final year project report on it using an external keyboard. Smartphones are an obvious improvement on them, but there was something nice about the form factor and general way the device worked.

[@winstonsmith478]

The dead parts bin competition has begun. Next up, a full size coffin.

[@proxy1035]

after that a complete IC recycling plant

[@bryanpeterson5769]

What if you continually emptied the smaller box into the larger, and displayed the larger among your youtube plaques?

[@aetch77]

Thoughts on the coffin - Rammy gets the RAM, the coffin gets everything else?

[@megaglowz8540]

YES!

[@derriusbranch8620]

Hi

[@derriusbranch8620]

Hi Go A things and groups and Safe things. And go good desks

[@derriusbranch8620]

Go good Library's and go good computers and desks and notes and Library's. Go A groups and volumes and go good computers and desks.

[@derriusbranch8620]

Reminds me of sone good times. And some and looks recent. Also one or two things and shops recent and with near UCLA and Los Angeles area and near the beach. Also with w abd ww and near shipping district and near also Chicago land area. And some and looks and material looks. Also some and looks and radio things and tv and also mail or touch things and with magnets. Go one groups and Data and Computers. And go good science and go good art. And go Technology and good computers

[@mal2ksc]

I say don't worry too much how you use the two boxes, since you can always change your mind later. If something (non-destructive of course) occurs to you, even if it seems stupid, might as well try it unless you've already come up with something better. I think it would be neat to put a music box mechanism in one of them, maybe it plays the Dies Irae every time you open it to add more parts. :D Or probably cheaper, easier, and more 80's, the guts of a singing birthday card might work.

[@granitepenguin]

I love the Handspring Visor. Handspring was a company started by one of the original creators of the Palm Pilot and in a lot of ways, vastly improved the Palm OS experience for less money. I don't recall the case switching it off, but I also always put the hard cover on mine first.

[@X-OR_]

The Coffin would make a cool computer case....

[@marcelofrau8818]

It can even fit a LCD screen or so. A very nice case for a portable retroconsole emulator like a retropie and also would probably have free some storage for a gamepad controller :D

[@eDoc2020]

Psst, there are secret features in the Visor's stylus. If you unscrew the tip there is a 'pokey stick' to press the reset button and if you remove the other end there's a small screwdriver usable for taking the unit apart. That was actually the first #0 Phillips screwdriver I had. Regarding the unit turning off when you slid it quickly into the case, my guess is the batteries were losing contact for a moment.

[@gurrag79]

The virtual dance party in the beginning, am I so educated by now, that I am correct to say it is a PAL machine being emulated??

[@Traderjoe]

I still have a handspring/palm pilot in my closet in translucent blue.

[@lightmagick]

Use the coffin for completely dead stuff, and use the rammy box for parts that partially work and maybe start a collection to later document the various types of faults.

[@evilsdexter5261]

My guess is that the box was first painted black, then using a cnc router the letters and skull was carved and after that they used some lacquer.

[@Dolinmyster]

My first smart phone was the Sprint attachment that slid into that slot. It was a massive device that made the thing even bigger, but it was awesome!

[@jonnycando]

I miss PalmOs….it was quirky but surprisingly usable.

[@Shmbler]

I can't believe you actually have time left to watch SMA. How come we all watch the same channels anyway?

[@Lachlant1984]

I remember reading articles about those Handspring PDAs back in 2000 or so, I understand the idea behind that card interface slot on the back was that you could insert accessory cards such as GPS receivers, MP3 players and other devices and if I understand things correctly, they were designed to work without the need for batteries or additional software to be installed on the host PDA.

[@Mr.RyanButterly]

I got my hands on black visor deluxe. ha

[@iocat]

VR emulation... wow this still makes me want to run screaming from the uncanny valley of VR. So janky.

[@brianv2871]

It's mostly the recording that's the issue, the headset itself is 72-120hz so not as bad in real life, but yeah, definitely don't want to do VR roller coasters if you're prone to motion sickness 😀

[@misterkite]

Hah, what a coincidence... I just found my old Palm III, which has a 3rd party transparent teal body. I'm lucky the batteries from Mar 2009 haven't leaked. I should track down my Sony Clie, which has a rechargeable battery that may have leaked.

[@PatrickDunn13078]

Hi Adrian - I have two handspring visors that me an my wife used in the early 2000's. The slot was for add-ons including the GPS add on that I have. The GPS was handy for doing geocaching. Still have it and the color palm as well. Just sitting in the drawer with a sharp zaurus. The Handspring Visors work too.

[@MattKasdorf]

My PDAs of choice were the Psion 5 and the Sharp Zaurus. 🐧🇨🇦

[@mattsword41]

Loved my psion 5 and my 3 before it!

[@zehph]

We love the big mail calls! Keep'em coming please!

[@djdublo]

I still have my palm pilot in a cupboard somewhere. Had a space trading "Elite" type game on it, excellent!

[@UNSCPILOT]

Even if it was fairly basic, I could imagine loosing hours to something like that, and regret nothing

[@mattparker9726]

6:42 CNC wood router.

[@BritishAPT]

I have a turquoise one of those palm pilots, sadly it doesn't work quite right.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Turquoise, purple, amber: the best colours for translucent plastic.

[@fnglert]

Coffin for dead logic chips, dead parts box for .

[@JamesPotts]

I had a Visor. Really good device. One of its selling points was the mp3 player expansion cartridge.

[@michaelfuller34]

8080s! Build an Altair!

[@talideon]

My eyes went wide when I saw all those 6809s! That's on my list of chips to use as the core of a homebrew machine!

[@Lachlant1984]

That dead chips coffin is just genius, so cleaver, I love it.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

The MOTOROLA MC6809 is also used in the CMI FAIRLIGHT V music generation and actually the AXEL FOLEY track was created on one by Yann Hammer.

[@jeffreyphipps1507]

6809s on the TRS-80 CoCos required the 6809E for external timing. The early computers like the SWTPC used the 6809, so they might be for those computers.

[@uni-byte]

That ceramic 8080 is probably worth quite a bit, especially to an Altair or IMSAI fanboy.

[@douro20]

28xx series chips are compatible with 27xx but are electrically erasable. 29xx chips were designed to replace them in most applications and are NOR flash based.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

I think that the AMSTRAD PC1512 used it MC6850P for the RS232 but could also be programmed for 5 databits 1.5 stopbits at any data rate up to 1152000.

[@MonochromeWench]

green battery leakage would likely be from NIMH batteries generic alkalines tend to form white crystals. That White ceramic AMD 8080 looks like something you'd see on cpugalaxy

[@tankgrrl]

Nice coffin, boys! :) There's an Australian connection to both boxes, actually. Lurch, Mark, and Randall live in Australia, obviously, but I also lived in Australia for a few years. :)

[@Ghozer]

Dead random chips in the coffin... and actual, dead ram modules/chips in the Rammy box! :) And that white ceramic AMD, C8080A is rare, it's the first one they produced after being licensed from intel!

[@freednighthawk]

So, I am currently holding in my hand my original Handspring Visor, in classic black, with the Sprint PCS Wireless Web Digital Link. In essence, the worlds first smart phone. Coincidentally I also have a Linksys wireless B PCMCIA card, it does not fit.

[@valshaped]

For alkaline battery leakage, I recommend white vinegar. It comes right off like nobody's business.

[@jeffreyphipps1507]

Would you actually need the PCMCIA adapter? Can't you just plug in the CF card? The interface is very similar for the storage part.

[@judgebeeb1967]

2732s do indeed have a different pinout than 2532s. More significantly, they have different programming voltages. 2732s will program in a MiniPro, but 2532s need a programmer that is either very fancy or very old. I believe you can use a 2732 in place of 2532 with an adaptor board (or frankensteined with stacked sockets and bodge wires).

[@SireSquish]

Put an OLED on your gotek and flash it with Kier Frasier's excellent flashfloppy custom Gotek firmware. You'll never look back (and you can see which image is loaded, no need for index tables or excel sheets)

[@Charlesb88]

The processor used in Handspring Visors as well as Palm PDA’s was the Freescale DragonBall processor, which was indeed a mobile version of the Motorola 68000 core. And No the Handspring does not turn off automatically when you place in the leather case.

[@johnsonlam]

I miss my handspring, which can change module, I got a camera module which is considered very low resolution now but it's awfully good at that time.

[@tillharbaum1166]

The 82s100 was e.g. used as the PLA in the C64. You might want to try if it actually is programmed to be one.

[@goondee9793]

Use the coffin for vampire boards. You know, boards that are not realy dead (... intermittent faults).

[@fumthings]

while you cant erase the PROMs, can you reprogram them by flipping any remaining hi bits, to low, eg 01010101 becomes 00010001? as the bytes all start at FF and are written by making them binary zero.

[@AiOinc1]

The Visor actually isn't actually a Palm Pilot, Handspring was founded by the original inventors of the Pilot and the software was licensed from Palm. Technically, it's made by an outside company and is a licensed clone!

[@timstein]

I Loved my Handspring Visor back in the day. I had a standard b&w version, but I wanted the Color. My b&w one died on me while still in warranty, and I took it back to the store I got it at (Fry's Electronics here in San Diego) and they gave me a color version as a replacement! I actually purchased a Sony/Ericson cell phone because it had early Bluetooth connections just so I could use the connection with my Visor to send and receive text messages!!!

[@senilyDeluxe]

I think you should split the dead parts between chips that are completely dead or are too broken to be of any use and parts that are still partially working or just out of spec. Because having a part that's mostly working is a lot better than not having a spare at all. A CIA/PIA with one bad input? You can still put it in a Vectrex or a 1541 if it's one that isn't used there. And as I already commented on another video - if you burn an EPROM and it doesn't work despite reading fine, it might be too slow for the job. Keep it for a system that's clocked at a slower speed.

[@twocvbloke]

Certainly a lot of chips there, just need some ketchup to DIP them in......... :P

[@TheEmbeddedHobbyist]

I have 3 palm pilots somewhere, one of them is the clear case the other two are grey. Had one on a belt clip for a few years with all the company board assemblies names and part numbers. As production liked to refer to PCB assy as part numbers and in R&D we refered to them by function.

[@seeindarkness]

You can erase PROMs using an X-RAY, (well at least that's what I've read somewhere long time ago), maybe you can try that ?

[@artursmihelsons415]

That coffin is nice.. 👍 Great idea from FEMB authors side.. I think, that small dead parts box needs to stay on bench, but big one needs new shelf or some place in corner.. 😂 When small box gets closer to full, parts from it goes to the big box.. And when there is need to get some dead part from coffin, then it's time to open it again.. 😂

[@lindoran]

My palm 3 (very similar to the handspring) did turn off with a reed switch. My Sony Ericsson branded pilot did also.

[@francoisrevol7926]

You missed the most important: BANANA FOR SCALE!

[@slicknick1213]

These chips stink like an arcade stash vs a vintage computer stash. The midway 8080 boards like space invaders, early atari, and Williams boards used all of this stuff

[@00Skyfox]

It's not just you. I recently threw out a bunch of new Duracells that leaked in the package, before I could use them for anything.

[@tommink2577]

Eric O. at SMA is great! When I heard you do the "enhance enhance" bit in one of your previous videos I was curious if you were channeling him!

[@keithwhisman]

Never ever use Duracell that can be counted on for one thing and that is leaking corrosive battery fluids everywhere. I’ve switched to Ever Ready Lithium Ultra Max for all my battery needs it’s a little costly but damn well worth it. The batteries last a very long time and don’t explode.

[@Electronics-Rocks]

Loved my palm pilot. BT used palm pilots and engineers had to go to the exchange each day to up date. I still have my handspring for gym backpack as my friend worked for them better than the Microsoft mouse t shirt I had that looked like a tampon. My backpack is looking a bit worn but my palm pilot still looks mint with a clear case. Those small proms most likely used like a ula as I designed circuits using them as decoders as cheaper than PLA ULA in the eighties

[@SThomas1972]

US Robotics and 3COM are the same company. Now part of HP.

[@minty_Joe]

I'm pretty sure a quick Google search will show not only upgrades and enthusiasts to that make/model of PDA, but also mods to really do some cool things with it.

[@erikbraun2867]

Ah yes 8:00, Americans using ANYTHING except the metric system

[@Colaholiker]

Is it just me or does the skull on the coffin look a bit like Achmed the Dead Terrorist? Silence! I fix you! :-D

[@michaelmarkham658]

I just want to say a big thank you. You are very entertaining, and very much a tinkerer. You are highly knowledgeable on your subject and enjoy watching your channels. Thanks for the lovely content and do please keep it up.

[@YarblekRW]

I for one am sick and tired of Duracell Hell. I had a new AAA literally explode in a tv remote the other day. Fortunately I was there and heard it pop so I got it cleaned before any damage was done. I have also found leaking batteries in the package that was dated for the mid 2020s. Its back to rechargeables for me!

[@GGigabiteM]

I concur that Duracell batteries are garbage. I've lost many things to those horrible batteries over the years, as well as had to clean up leaking batteries. One of the most expensive things of mine that a duracell battery killed was a very expensive machined aluminum Maglite. It took three AA batteries, which were duracells it came with. The batteries weren't in the Maglite for more than a couple of months before I noticed that the maglite turned itself on at a very low level, which was weird since it didn't support dimming modes. I unscrewed the base to have my hand covered in blue-green battery goo pouring out the end from the battery rupturing. After washing the battery goo off, I tried to get the batteries out, which wasn't happening because they expanded and got stuck. I had to end up drilling into the batteries and pulling them out one by one, which revealed that the inside of the Maglite had been utterly destroyed by the battery goo. There was no saving the flashlight because the corrosion turned the case of the Maglite into a giant resistor. Never experienced this with any other brand, even the horrible cheap Chinese wofat batteries that come with some things.

[@Renville80]

Another vote for putting the RAM in the smaller box and using the coffin for everything else.

[@InconsistentManner]

Ener-Geyser, Dura-Leak, Rayo-Puke, I have heard them all. Everyone loves to tell everyone else which brand they love and hate.

[@aaroncheah2088]

That's a Handspring Visor. The slot is proprietary. I have the blue one but with a bad display.

[@awilliams1701]

If I hadn't seen the Rammy dead parts bin I would have thought the coffin was the coolest thing ever. However I have seen the Rammy dead parts bin. So it's the 2nd coolest thing ever. lol

[@kaitlyn__L]

Yeah, as cool as the coffin is, the Rammy one has so many little details and fine details. But that’s understandable since it’s handmade by a fan while the coffin was commissioned. The coffin was churned out by someone who does a lot of pieces all the time. The Rammy one probably had a lot more hours put into it, plus time to think over additions.

[@awilliams1701]

@@kaitlyn__L exactly

[@billfruge25]

Thanks for all the awesome videos! Love them all! Why not put smaller dead components in one dead parts box and larger ones, such as chips, in the other? All the best from Canada! \o/

[@ultrametric9317]

PS, vinegar does wonders on removing crust. You can dilute it with tap water. Then more plain water and alcohol to finish up.

[@InMyHead]

Use the Rammy Box as the "short term" bad parts storage and each time it is full dump it into the casket for "long term" storage.

[@atomoworkshop3327]

I am guessing that the writing and all the little details on that box lid on the parts bin was done with a CNC, to answer your question on how it was done! I also imagine you could fix that palmpilot screen in a similar way to the orignal DMG GameBoy screen repair, should it go again.

[@mal2ksc]

Or someone with a Dremel and a _really_ steady hand. Basically, H(uman)NC instead of CNC.

[@atomoworkshop3327]

@@mal2ksc looking at the stair stepping of it I would say for sure CNC, if done by hand would be more smooth or more lumpy. Still great work either way!

[@Docdroz]

You should put your candy in the coffin, being that you're Diabetic, it would be sweet irony.

[@SidneyCritic]

I think everyone's hoping there is so many repair vids, that it fills both boxes - lol -.

[@gieselats]

It is so nice that you give vintage computers which you repaired to other people of the retro computing community. Really awesome. Keep up the good work.

[@waterup380]

What you need is the palm pilot keyboard but they are hard to come by. I have one and it worked well when I used it 15 years or so ago. Now I know you can hack the keyboard to use on windows 10 or a Mac. The one I have is a folded one with a fabric case