A-Z Of Commodore 64 Hidden Gems - The Numbers - Unofficial!

[@oldstylegaming]

Hey its an honor that you picked up the numbers episode and did such a good job, I have heard and played a few in that list like 8 bit slicks and 3D Skramble but the stand out one for me is 9 - 5 it seems like an early Typing of the Dead type game and it surprises me more because I actually did a video on C64 Movie Games and that was missed from there when it should have been in. I love the graphics rendering on that golf game too and will defo check that one out. Thanks for the shout out (s) to it means a lot to me. Have you not posted this in The C64 Family group on FB?

[@8_Bit]

Again, thanks so much for doing the massive work involved in the full A-Z series, and I'm glad you liked my picks for the numbers! I'll post on that FB group now, thanks for the reminder.

[@jpcompton]

Sure would be keen for this to be added to the Hidden Gems playlist.

[@oldstylegaming]

@@jpcompton Ok done that and also linked the video in the Z episode :-)

[@PJBonoVox]

OSG is my favourite geordie :)

[@flyingzeppo]

Not only did I learn about several new C64 games that I didn't know about, but I also learned something new about Canadian bowling. I love this channel.

[@MichaelDoornbos]

4:15 Words I didn't think I'd hear this morning: Dolly Parton Sprites

[@alerey4363]

The cowgirl scene specially is dead-on!

[@shinyphil87]

5:11 "The animation of the golfer is somewhere between OK and hilarious" 😂😂

[@merman1974]

Great video Robin, and thanks for the mention! 8-Bit Slicks is still under development, with the new update released in January. I have been avidly watching OSG’s videos so this was good to see.

[@moribundtoot8183]

As part of my computer course at college I had to do a module on typewriter skills, strange but true. I was told there that putting 2 spaces after a full stop helped with legibility and you would be marked down if you didn't do it. I have done so ever since so we are the same there.

[@RetroRuminations]

Double-spacers of the world, unite!

[@csbruce]

They can pry my double-space from my cold, dead, and stiff fingers! Same with my Oxford comma!

[@rotordave81]

All two of you? Boo!

[@bob-ny6kn]

YEAHRGH! THREE OF US! Today, the internet, tomorrow, the world! (dspace) (smileyface)

[@robintst]

Make that FOUR! "AND MY AXE!"

[@Okurka.]

​@@robintst Did you go to school?

[@grymmjack]

You are such a nice guy! seriously, one of the most polite and positive channels I am subbed to. Your delivery pace, and chill voice(besides the obvious subject matter we all came for) really makes your content addictive for me.

[@8_Bit]

Thank you for the kind words.

[@00Skyfox]

You’re not alone in putting 2 spaces after a period. That’s how I was trained to do it when I learned how to touch-type on actual typewriters, and that’s how I type to this day whether on the C64, PC, or a tablet with on screen keyboard.

[@config2000]

Hi Robin, I have an idea for a future episode. What I found fascinating about C64 games were the various cassette turbo loaders used, I always wondered what code went into creating them. Some would live-load background graphics, others would show colour-banding pattern changes. Would love to see an episode where you do a deep dive into turbo loaders.

[@8_Bit]

It's a good idea, I just have to think about how to demonstrate it at a deeper level. Not sure if I have to code my own loader system or what. Disassemble an existing one, I guess? I'll think about it more.

[@grantd165]

Ha. I listened to you a few hours ago today on the retro hour podcast and came back from work opened KZbin and you're being recommened by Old Style Gaming. Glad to have found you mate.

[@ACanOfBakedBeans]

9 to 5 Typing was also EXCLUSIVELY released on the C64.

[@trelard]

I've been watching that series myself for the nostalgia feels. Thanks for wrapping it up :)

[@JohnnyWednesday]

Two of my favorite channels becoming youtube friends? wonderful :) EDIT: great list! totally worthy of hidden gem status!

[@Geferulf_TAS]

This seems like a great series to get into c64 with

[@painkillergko]

Great YT channel. I saw all the published episodes and thanks to that I got to know many interesting and fun games :)

[@fkthewhat]

I have to come clean and admit that I was re-watching the whole degrassi series recently as I remembered it from my childhood - and one of the episodes had them playing 5-pin bowling... I didn't know what the hell was going on - it looks like a cross between lawn bowls and 10 pin bowling! I'm glad its now cleared up that it's a Canadian thing (I am such a "broomhead" xD)

[@8_Bit]

Mystery solved! It's funny when making a video like this, I never know what people will find interesting. This time it's been the 5-pin bowling, and 9 to 5 Typing!

[@Retro_B8]

Brilliant mate, I loved OSG’s series and it’s great you dine this, duly subscribed!

[@TheRetrospective]

8 bit slicks looks awesome, thanks for the video!

[@DerykRobosson]

Greetings fellow double space user.

[@csbruce]

0:41 It's interesting how the world has adopted "ASCIIbetical" order for names. 4:27 There definitely should be a bigger space between sentences than between words, as it makes text easier to visually parse.

[@abc-mr7we]

Supposedly, modern word processors make the space between sentences wider, so the user isn't supposed to add two spaces. I still do it.

[@JohnnyWednesday]

@@abc-mr7we - Yeah they do. I've done some work on text rendering engines and such things are covered in the discussion of 'kerning'

[@pulykamell]

That guideline was for monospaced typefaces, e.g. typewritten manuscripts, C64 system font text, etc. When a typesetter would layout a book for print, the double spaces were taken out and the appropriate space for the typeface (typically a proportionally spaced one) would be put after punctuation. So, yes, when typing in monospaced fonts (Courier and American Typewriter would be examples), use two spaces; otherwise (which is almost all the time these days), use one and the font will take care of the appropriate spacing. All the major US stylebooks (University of Chicago, MLA, AP, and, just recently, APA) advise the use of a single space for this reason. I don't know off-hand if any other English stylebooks still prefer two spaces. Some editors I know have macros that strip out the extraneous space for writers who are still in the habit of using two spaces. and you'll get a request not to do it again (and some I hear will outright reject your manuscript if submitted with extra spacing.)

[@csbruce]

@@abc-mr7we: The only typesetting system I've ever seen do this is LaTeX. But they all have problems recognizing sentence breaks and are usually confused by abbreviations, such as in "Mr. Harbron made a video". Period, Space, Capital letter = sentence break, right? Though, really, a double-space is a lot easier for software to detect than the end of a sentence. Period, Question, or Exclamation followed by two spaces is *definitely* the end of a sentence (unless you're drawing with text). KZbin's comment system is showing my double spaces verbatim, and other people's single spaces verbatim. The single spaces are harder to read. Raw HTML conflates all whitespace into a single space and doesn't do anything special for sentence breaks.

[@anjinmiura6708]

On Amazon, there's a couple of books I plan to buy and work through. It's "Retro Game Dev: C64 Edition by Derek Morris" and its v2. The problem (ongoing struggle) is always about time/focus energy. I'm reminded of when I was exploring firearms and learning all about them. I'd watched countless videos on the subject and mostly about disassembly and reassembly, cleaning and things of that nature. The videos with commentary walking me through the actions made it possible for me to do the same with lots less risk of doing things with bad results. One of the most important benefits is doing a thing with a kind of sense that I had already done it before to some degree which came from having watched it on KZbin before. And if you don't like the "guns" example, here's another. I needed to replace a headlight bulb in my car. They aren't the way they used to be! And according to the manual for my car, you needed to remove many front end parts in order to properly replace the bulbs! This made me want to take it to a mechanic at first! (Probably by intentional design!) But then I found some really poor quality videos on youtube talking about and showing how THEY did it "incorrectly" with better results and almost no tools involved. So I did it myself and while it was challenging in some ways, I accomplished the work and saved a TON of money in the process. (and it's not like I didn't give a local mechanic the chance to take my money... I called one and they told me it might take a day or two before they could get to it... couldn't go without a car that long.... so.. it was necessary) Similarly, working through the lessons in a book like these would be incredibly useful because while I would also like to do those things, seeing and hearing someone else do them would add that extra dimension of having "already done it before." But this is why I have asked for "how do I best set up my operating environment"? Perhaps it's also addressed in the book, I don't know... I don't have them yet. But I came across another instructional series of videos where a guy is programming arduino things starting off with incredibly simple things and actually started with setting up the operating environment first! It's the perfect approach [for a guy like me]! (perfection is in the mind of the beholder) And maybe this is the kind of thing that could earn even more money because I know I'd probably pay for access to such materials. Such a thing could also serve to sell more books for the authors of such guides. I see a lot of opportunity there. And if the idea isn't one that immediately inspires a guy like "Robin [8-Bit Show And Tell]" I just may get off my otherwise busy and tired buttocks and just buy the books and try to make the video series myself. I don't want to be in videos and I don't like the sound of my own voice but who knows... kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYHUpXaips2CrdE Someone seems to have started down that road... long ago. Seems, once again, I have no original ideas.... maybe this is my opportunity to test the waters in youtube land...

[@nolake]

Awesome video! There are two games I played back then that I completely forgot the name and that I can’t find anymore nowadays. The first one is a maze from above in which each part appears when you go further, there were no graphics but heart, plus, square etc to represent the encounters. I think the labyrinth was each time different. A text explained what actually happened. The second one is a game a bit like pacman but there was a glitch that let you go outside the game to eat your highscore (it was clearly not made on purpose but was very fun). I’d love to play those game a last time. Nostalgia has no impact on me, I’m working in the gaming industry but the only games I play are those from the C64, ST and Amiga :-)

[@marcelfrehse]

3d skramble reminds me very much in "Blue Max" by the bomb dropping animation and mechanism. Blue Max is with an old 1st WW plane.

[@jovmilos]

The # hidden gem I had most fun with in the 80's is definitely 3D pinball by Mastertronic

[@gamingtonight1526]

Always love the "talking hand"...! :)

[@oahupc4688]

Awesome! You should do many many many more of these!

[@TrickysFlyingBurrito]

I saw 4th and Inches briefly there - what an awesome American Football game for the time.

[@lurkerrekrul]

My family used to play Mille Bornes when I was young, but not knowing exactly how to pronounce it, we always called it "Milly Born". We also used to ignore the rule that you needed to play a "roll" card after any hazards in order to speed up the game. Otherwise, some players could get stuck for long periods of time.

[@billspear4900]

I played Mille Bornes growing up and programmed a version in BASIC back in the day. I’ll have to go through my Loadstar collection and try that one. Thank you for posting!

[@OperationPhantom]

Nice "collab" guys!

[@theyamo7219]

8-Bit Slicks also has an updated version which came out fairly recently as well

[@saganandroid4175]

Love your commentary.

[@richpickings2845]

"I've been gaming on the C64 for 37 years" - Robin......you wear that honor like a badge...hey it that the badge in the videos. 😁

[@DavidYoud]

9 to 5 Typing: Yup jr. high typing class (in Davis, CA) means I will forever do two spaces after a period (we're a distinguished, albeit, aging two-space club) , and an em dash as two minus/hyphen chars. The classroom was filled with manual (non-electric) typewriters, but had 3 commodores in the back with Bank Street Writer. 5-Pin Bowling: Glad you explained why there's 5 pins -- I would have thought the programmer was just lazy. :D 8-Bit Slicks: Are there other internet C64 games? I assume UDP, and at least one of the home networks with their NAT configured to accept incoming connections? Great video, as always.

[@8_Bit]

re: internet C64 games, Leif Bloomquist has worked on a few: Artillery Duel Network, NetRacer, a space shooter (Vortex or something?), and an upcoming Roguelike. Cool stuff!

[@setSCEtoAUX]

My new job has several people who rail passionately against two-spaces, so I have to be extra careful not to let that old habit slip through. I knew getting old would be tough, but I did not expect this!

[@bob-ny6kn]

I hated the new Selectric typewriters our school recieved. I preferred the manual Smith-Corona. Now I'm typing with two thumbs all day at my job?! WTF world!? Give me back those hours and bad grades!

[@CanadianRetroThings]

I personally like these kind of videos, it gives direction to people that are new to the computer or game system something to try out and not get a complete turd that may turn them away from the system.

[@AndreAguiar]

3D Skramble reminds me of Zaxxon for sure. This one surprised me in this list. Looks very fluid and well thought out from the bunch and plays well even on a C64. Will have to check that one out for sure.

[@Kris_M]

6:37 An inverted V shape. I'm confused about "inverted".

[@8_Bit]

"Inverted" wasn't a very good word choice :) Maybe I conceptually always view a "V" on a page from the top, and think of the point being the termination? But when I'm rolling a ball at the pins, then the point comes first so that somehow seems inverted to me? I don't know why I said or thought that. But yeah, on the screen in this game, that's definitely not inverted.

[@jpcompton]

Glad somebody else said it.

[@VariXx]

I started watching OSG after you recommended him in another video and really like his channel. I like to think of this video as a crossover episode.

[@marksretrogames9297]

Great video mate love the c64 my favourite computer of all time takes me back to my childhood

[@bigstackD]

You remind me of the boss Glenn on superstore series🤔👍🏻, Great upload my friend👊🏻😁🇦🇺🍻🍻🍻

[@jpcompton]

#NotAllCanadians

[@theannoyedmrfloyd3998]

Thanks for the heads up on 8-bit Slicks. I grabbed the Atari 8-bit and Lynx versions to check them out. Looks like Super Sprint by Atari Games.

[@pauldeane8369]

@3:50 - Ok seriously a 9 to 5 video game?! I'm actually a big fan of that movie. I saw it as a kid a loved it. That's hilarious! Dabney Coleman chasing Dolly Parton, try and get away with that in 2021. lol

[@harbscantina]

The Last Ninja by System 3 is still my favourite C64 game.

[@RetroChlop]

How often will new episodes be released? :)

[@basvanharen2904]

Cant wait for his Amiga gems list😁😅

[@chriswatson2407]

Great job with your blackbar solution.

[@8_Bit]

I basically copied Old Style Gaming's solution, but used a picture of my silver label C64.

[@SteveGuidi]

"Mille Miglia" (pronounced Me-leh Me-lee-ah) is a great title from Simulmondo. They produced several other titles which got little-to-no visibility in Canada as Italy was the primary market -- "Dylan Dog" and "Diabolik" are two others that I remember. Simulmondo had an interesting yet failed business model in their last years, as documented in the article below. They produced and published games each month, paired with a comic books series, where each game was one part of a several part series for the story. The games were sold along other comic books at magazine stands throughout Italy. genesistemple.com/once-we-were-giants-the-history-of-simulmondo-italys-first-software-house-part-i

[@randy7894]

Thanks for the tip!

[@klofisch]

Just great! Thanks

[@bloodfistzero]

This was a nice video to wake up to. I'm going to have to dust off my c128 and see if it still works. I know the monitor still does I use it for my vcr in the garage! Also cheers from BC!

[@mikerhodes9198]

Good video. I have always used 2 spaces after a period and I am 74. Not sure when I started but pretty sure it was when I started programming on my Atari 800. After that it always just looked better than 1 space and I never changed.

[@8_Bit]

We were taught to use two spaces in high school typing class, so it's a hard habit to break!

[@kizzume]

I totally remember 9 to 5 typing.

[@theyamo7219]

3D Pinball from Mastertronic is pretty good one too. Albeit that's a bit too well known

[@marinacelada3246]

Solo io ho riso per la pronuncia di "Mille Miglia"? 😂.

[@kins749]

3D Scramble looks amazing, but one glaring omission is 180 the darts game, that is loads of fun and deserves a place in the top ten (well, for the ZX Spectrum and Atari 800, I've never played the C64 version but I assume it is as good)

[@8_Bit]

I love 180, played loads of it back in 1987, I just thought it was too well-known for this "hidden gems" list.

[@rotordave81]

@@8_BitI played this game more than any other on the C64 - I guess I'm a masochist. Would like you to start doing (more) game reviews and include this one day!

[@michaelhill6453]

Great video. Even better is there are lots more numbers for you to play with. :-)

[@Sabocalypse]

Good games, good channel

[@luciannil]

Hi Robin, hope you are well. Viewing your videos, I realize you have a SD card reader connected in your Comm64C computer. Could you please share where did you bought that reader and if it works for C128? Thank you!

[@8_Bit]

Hi Luciano, yes, I use Jim Brain's "uIEC" SD card reader, which he sells on his site go4retro.com. It works fine on C128 too.

[@luciannil]

@@8_Bit Thank you a lot!!!

[@pete7869]

I like watch your channel!! There have everytime good staff!

[@tmilker]

I don't think I could stop pressing two spaces after a period if I tried. 😁

[@SRDhain]

3D scramble i vaguely remember. I think it was by Anirog software, who were an independent UK based company. It was probably on tape and took 10 minutes or so to load.

[@8_Bit]

Anirog made a regular 2D Skramble which was great. This 3D version was made by "Livewire" who made another 6 or so obscure games. And yes, no doubt their games had 10 minute loading times!

[@SRDhain]

@@8_Bit Ah. I was almost there. Thank you for that. Did livewire also make lazy jones?

[@8_Bit]

@@SRDhain Apparently that was "Terminal Software".

[@SRDhain]

@@8_Bit It's so long ago. Thanks again.

[@clauscombat418]

Great video, very interesting. Could you please do a top10 s.e.u.c.k. list, too?

[@JustinEmlay]

My favorites where all the Windham Classics.

[@snakefriesia6808]

3D Skramble.. oh man.. i played this a lot on my c64.. i loved it a lot. one of my neigjbours had a real Skramble cabinet.. unfortunately it started to deterriorate so he gave it away .. but dang.. to find the predecessor for 3d skramble.. wo..

[@MarioSalvini]

8bit Slicks is like Slicks'N'Slide 😆👍

[@pete7869]

Thanks posting!! Good games what you got there!!👌👍✌😊😇

[@LadyNicola]

Just figured out how to save my basic games to disk😂

[@mikegarland4500]

My typing class(es) in 1986 & '87 required that we put double-spaces after any hard punctuation, like . ? and ! I think the colon was also included : but things like semicolon ; and commas were single spaces. I do remember that, and I routinely switch back and forth now because I want to put a double-space after periods, but I don't always remember to. My android phone is especially resistant to a double-space between sentences.

[@8_Bit]

Keep fighting the good fight! :) I actually don't remember the number of spaces we were supposed to do after a colon (I would have guessed one, but won't argue with two) but the rest of it matches what I was taught. I also took my first typing class in 1986 - I suspect we're of a very similar age! I had developed a bunch of bad habits typing on my C64 the previous couple years but managed to learn the "right" way pretty quickly and really benefited.

[@mikegarland4500]

@@8_Bit I was the same way, having hunted-and-pecked for years on my C64. My typing teacher was amazed how fast I could actually type with just two fingers, but I picked up touch typing really quickly and was soon the fastest in the class. If I had to guess, going by dates you've mentioned in previous vids, I'd guess you are either 1 or 2 years younger than I am. I'm 53.

[@vauxhalldotnet]

Really enjoyed this video - hope there are some more, will also sub and watch Old Style Gaming. :)

[@Hounddoggy33]

Great vid, Robin! I still love playing the darts classic, 180. I'm sure I can download these games from CSDB, but I used to be able to get them from 8bitfiles (through GB64) but for some unknown reason none of the zip files will download through Chrome from there anymore. Not sure what setting I may have changed. Anyone else experience this? EDIT: I figured out on my own that under chrome://flags/ you have to re-enable "Enable support for FTP URLs".

[@8_Bit]

Yeah, 180 is fantastic, I just thought it was a bit too well known for this list. I remember playing it a bunch back in 1987. I also noticed that change in Chrome, annoying! I'm glad you found the work-around.

[@robertlock5501]

For as long as i can remember i've been putting two spaces after periods.

[@gjermundification]

3D skrable I remember as good entertainment back in the day.

[@georgemaragos2378]

Hi - any change if you can do a walk through and show how to code in basic a program to calculate bowling scores Regards George

[@RetroGameCoders]

Good stuff 👍

[@TrollingAround]

There should always be two spaces after a punctuation mark that has a 'dot'/'period' ie ".!?"

[@Azuris190]

Ha i have that Bowling Game, one of the Games i had most Fun with. Was too young for most Games and died pretty quickly ^^

[@diosyntaxa]

Hmm, so there's a difference between US and UK 720 degrees? Didn't know that, not even sure which version I played back in the day :D Have to check that out, I guess on my U64 and the only working C64 I have is an NTSC C128 I got rather recently (the PAL C64 I had had a non-working SID). Will convert the C128 to PAL if I get around to it, and possibly switching kernel and character ROMs as I want it to have Swedish keys :D

[@8_Bit]

Here in Canada I only had a copy (pirated) of the UK 720 degrees, I didn't even know there was a US version. Usually we would get US games before UK but not for this game. Good luck with your C128 mods, sounds fun!

[@diosyntaxa]

@@8_Bit most of the software I had any contact with (on friends' C64s or on my own C128 late in the game) was pirated, though I did have a couple of games, so it might be I played the US version as well, except I'm not sure since the music sounded right and NTSC/PAL played havoc on that stuff at times (unless it was fixed or they checked for it). Thank you, might need some luck even though it IS a simple mod, I'm just not good at that stuff :)

[@Gooberslot]

An 8-bit Show and Tell video that's less than 10 minutes? What did you do with the real Robin?

[@8_Bit]

I was 100% committed to following OSG's series style; all the videos were 8 to 9 minutes. Except I didn't try doing his accent. But don't worry, next video will be 41 minutes to make up for this one :)

[@pixelpat777]

Thats the same C64 I had, It's design is more like a PC , noice!

[@8_Bit]

Yeah, it's the later model "64C". I find it nicer for typing on than the original breadbin 64.

[@bertholtappels1081]

At the moment, 3932 views, 483 thumbs up and zero thumbs down. Think of any other video on KZbin that can produce that sort of ratio. Let's assume here that the division by zero isn't going to implode the internet.

[@bloodmapedit]

@5:28 pronounced as 'Me-luh Meal-ya' ;)

[@saganandroid4175]

Can the C64 8 Bit Slicks play with Atari and Apple users?

[@8_Bit]

I haven't tried it, but apparently yes, the one server supports all clients. I'd like to try it sometime, though I don't have any Atari or Apple network hardware, only C64.

[@GazzJ82]

Hopefully you didn't have the misfortune of playing my game 6 pin bowling written entirely in basic!

[@8_Bit]

Haha, that was yours? I did see it but didn't actually play it, knowing that I wanted to include the 5-Pin Bowling game for sure. How did you end up deciding on 6 pin? I guess it makes a tidy little triangle of pins...

[@GazzJ82]

@@8_Bit because I could only do 8 sprites in basic. 6 pins, 1 bowling ball and 1 arrow pointer to choose your direction.

[@joshhiner729]

Since 8bit slicks has internet multiplayer does anyone know if an atari user can play a c64 user via the internet? Great video btw.

[@8_Bit]

I haven't tried it, but according to the website it supports cross-platform online play. Pretty cool!

[@syntaxerror3669]

If someone like 720 degree game I recommend Skate or Die.

[@Geenimetsuri]

What I did not expect is seeing Slicks 'n Slide clone as number one! It looks identical to the original. www.digitalfootmark.com/?pr=slix

[@666Astrosmurf]

Ohh. Someone else who actually like 3d golf (or Hole in one as it was called here). It always get smashed in reviews =P

[@rotordave81]

I was rather hoping you would do the accent, but you imitated his style really well and it was effective. I almost unsubscribed when I found out you add two spaces after a full stop, but you saved it with your 5-pin quip!

[@8_Bit]

I briefly considered doing the accent; maybe it would have helped me pronounce that Italian game better!

[@demonsty]

whoa canadian bowling is diff than american!? wth!

[@Lee-wl4kh]

Hi Robin great video very useful indeed as I have just got myself a copy of C64 forever Plus edition by Cloanto so will have to check it out. A quick question for you Robin, have you heard of the Commander X16 project? and if so would you consider covering it in future videos? Keep up the great work love your videos, Lee

[@8_Bit]

Thanks! Yes, the Commander X16 is a very interesting project and I will probably cover it at some point.

[@Lee-wl4kh]

@@8_Bit That is great to hear that I am watching the project waiting for them to complete at I want to really get it.

[@anjinmiura6708]

What's this "Zed" thing? LOL! He says "Zed" because he's from Canada but can't say Mille Bornes???

[@JohnnyWednesday]

It's how "Zee" is pronounced in every country that speaks english except for America ;)

[@anjinmiura6708]

@@JohnnyWednesday Sorry you missed the sarcasm. The history of how the "z" became pronounced as "zed" (and also how it became pronounced as "zee") is a little interesting but to me it's even wider than this.

[@csbruce]

A Zero-Point Module is a battery that is able to store an enormous amount of energy in a pocket of subspace-time. It's kind of like a miniature universe in a bottle.

[@the8ctagon]

1vader ftw